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Blame smoking for Super Smash Bros. Brawl issues

It’s undisputable that smoking is hazardous to one’s health, but who could have expected that the smoke from cigarettes could also be harmful to a videogame system?

Super Smash Bros. Brawl was released last Sunday, and will likely be one of Nintendo’s biggest Wii titles for 2008. Several of those who purchased the game found that their Wii consoles had issues reading the disc, preventing it from running.

According to the Boston Herald, second-hand cigarette smoke could be one of the culprits for giving the Wii trouble in reading the disc. Super Smash Bros. Brawl is the biggest Wii game yet, and requires dual-layer DVD media in order to contain all the data. The slightest bit of smoke residue on the optical pickup inside the Wii could be enough to stop the console from reading the dual-layer disc.

Although Nintendo would not comment on what the precise causes could be for a Wii to be unable to read Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it did erect a support page that read, “A very small percentage of Wii consoles may have trouble consistently reading data off this large capacity disc if there is some contamination on the lens of the disc drive.”

Wii owners not willing to part with their consoles for cleaning have attempted to take matters into their own hands. Some have reported that using compressed air to blow into the disc drive has helped their consoles run the software, though Nintendo advises against any user-performed maintenance.

The Nintendo support note continued, “Nintendo has specialized cleaning equipment that can resolve this problem. (Please do NOT attempt to clean the lens yourself, as you may damage the system.)”

The idea of preventing smoke inhalation by a console’s cooling system may not be entirely crazy. Japanese peripherals maker has developed a dust and smoke filter accessory for the PlayStation 3 – though no accessory exists yet for the Wii.

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Hardly surprising
By MrTeal on 3/14/2008 7:24:12 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
but who could have expected that the fumes from cigarettes could also be harmful to a videogame system?


I think anyone who's had to open up a piece of consumer electronics equipment that's been in a smoker's house for a few years would expect just that.




RE: Hardly surprising
By m1ldslide1 on 3/14/2008 7:44:40 PM , Rating: 5
Agree. I don't know that the word "fumes" is accurate, as it's more about the particles that build up on components. I would imagine an optical lense on the Wii would be far more susceptible than even most other electronic internals.


RE: Hardly surprising
By Wererat on 3/21/2008 2:23:43 PM , Rating: 2
Consider the root word for 'fume' and you will find it derived from words meaning 'smoke' which is of course the particulate remains of burning.


RE: Hardly surprising
By danz32 on 3/14/2008 7:48:14 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. I've seen white computer cases covered in a layer of yellowish-brown (on the inside and outside). It obviosuly not good for it


RE: Hardly surprising
By eye smite on 3/14/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hardly surprising
By Belard on 3/14/2008 9:01:58 PM , Rating: 3
Nope... smoke leaves residue. Heavy smokers cause the inside of electronics to turn yellow from the pollution. The walls are yellowish-brown, rather than white... just like the lungs of smokers.

It gets in clothes, cars and stink. Unfortunetly, I have the "hots" for a smoker, but everytime I leave - my clothes are stinky and I smell it all the way home. I've put them in a plastic bag to severely reduce how smokey they get... ;)

Now... if you want to smoke, go for it... it should be your right.


RE: Hardly surprising
By mindless1 on 3/15/2008 12:17:37 AM , Rating: 4
You two are comparing different things. Smoke in a static system won't tend to do much harm at all but on an optical lense needing more clarity because of DL disc it can become quite significant.

Then there's the dust level, smoke by itself isn't nearly as problematic as when the sticky tar deposits have a dusty environment making that dust stick to things more, then that dust also accumulates more tar at an elevated rate due to being a larger surface area.

The proper engineering solution to the problem is that the optical drive be heatsunk to the casing and the exterior of the casing be the cooling mechanism, without unused holes and the front door sealed with a foam strip. This substantially reduces the amount of smoke, dust or other particles that get into the drive even if the system has active airflow to cool it. Even then, nothing in a typical consumer device is quite airtight and it will be opened periodically, a really smoky environment and precision optics just don't mix well.


RE: Hardly surprising
By eye smite on 3/15/2008 7:42:45 AM , Rating: 1
Oh thank you Captian Obvious, my point was said residue has never affected any of my equipment and it's all working just fine. You idiots jump to the wrong conclusion everytime though.


RE: Hardly surprising
By chick0n on 3/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hardly surprising
By Brigandier on 3/15/2008 2:25:28 PM , Rating: 1
Welcome to DT, immortal, what was it like when the first telephone was released? That must have been pretty ground-breaking. It's so refreshing to meet some one that lives forever, I have so many questions to ask you!

Non-smoker immortality complex is quite bothersome. A smoker could die in a car accident(at any time), get hit by a bus, catch ebola, whatever. The statistical chances of dying for anyone is 100%. Lots of smokers don't get lung cancer, and by the time they do 70's-80's, would be a time where people start dying anyway. Sure, some get it earlier, but what's to say they didn't have a genetic predisposition to dying? Sure, cigarettes aren't healthy, but what life is?


RE: Hardly surprising
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 2:41:20 PM , Rating: 1
Yet another ignorant statement...

Both of my mothers parents died of smoking related cancers, my grandmother at 56 and grandfather at 61. Now I'm no rocket scientist but from a national average of nonsmokers dying at 81, lets see 81 minus 56 equals 25, and 81 minus 61 equals 20. 25 and 20 years difference. That seems significant to me, but then I'm not the shiniest apple on the tree either...

Things that make you go HMMMMM...


RE: Hardly surprising
By Brigandier on 3/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hardly surprising
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 3:02:17 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Well, sucks to be you, my friend. But not all smokers smoke fifteen packs a day, and a lot of other factors. Maybe your grandparents loved huffing gasoline.


You're not my friend. I don't associate with such cold and callous people such as yourself, let alone call them friend.

Any smoking is damaging to the health of the person lighting up and others around them. So really, get a clue...


RE: Hardly surprising
By eye smite on 3/15/2008 4:37:54 PM , Rating: 1
You know, everyone dies, that's just the way it is. I smoke. Do I care, no. Reason being, if smoking doesn't kill me the multiple sclerosis will. So all you nambi pambi's can just suck my smoke. You're all retards anyway.


RE: Hardly surprising
By snowbro on 3/15/2008 9:28:25 PM , Rating: 4
LOL

You are rather uneducated...

I am a practicing physician, a radiation oncologist, and I spend a good amount of my time treating lung cancer patients with radiation therapy...

But it is NOT just lung cancer, soooooooooooo many other cancers are caused by smoking... head and neck tumors (including mouth, tongue, tonsil, voice-box, etc), bladder cancers, cervix cancers, etc, etc...

Not only that, all the adverse affects to your arteries, including your coronaries results in hypertension, increased risk of heart attack, etc...

Finally, you are DESTROYING your lungs... emphysema, chronic bronchitis, do you know what it is like to be unable to breath because your lungs keep producing too many secretions, and you are at the point of almost suffocating, on a regular basis?

Most people who smoke do not die quickly, it is a long drawn-out and painful process...

But it keeps me in business ;) So keep on puffing away and throwing away your OWN life... I'm telling you, 10 years of smoking goes by like nothing, another 10 years, and you're a 20 years smoker... serious irreversible damage...

BEST THING you can do for your body is quit, IMMEDIATELY...

Nothing, and I mean nothing - no fitness program, no diet program, no new-age shit is gonna come close to how much you are doing to help your body with that single act...


RE: Hardly surprising
By Regs on 3/21/2008 1:42:56 PM , Rating: 2
You're right on two main points. The years go through fast. I smoked for 4 years and it felt like I've only been smoking for a week after I quit. The sooner you quit, the better as it takes a long time ,if ever, for the lungs to heal from years of smoking.

Second point is that it's ludicrous to intentionally poison ourselves with something that could lead to a long and miserable death. So many sad stories as well. Take for instance a man who never thought in a million years would be a grandfather, will likely not survive to see his grand children. He regrets not quitting sooner the last days of his life.

This is my 9th straight week without smoking tobacco. Every week I become ever more thankful I did quit. To be able smell, think clearly, wake up with more energy, and be able to just plain breath - far out weights the enjoyment of breathing tar, un natural chemicals, and carcinogens for a little "buzz". Even that buzz does not last long because our body grows a defense to it. A true chemical addiction accures.

In short, after smoking for so long, the calmness and comfort associated with being the “real you” faded into distant or even forgotten memory. It took me about 2 months to bring the real me back without the need for nicotine. I would estimate for someone who's been smoking for 15-20 years, at least 3-12 months of recovery time. Just all depends on how badly you want to quit.


RE: Hardly surprising
By Flunk on 3/16/2008 2:13:14 AM , Rating: 2
So, because you like something you have the right to inflict it upon other people? What if I liked burning down houses, does that mean I can burn down yours? Also, everyone else is a retard because they don't want to:

1. Poison themselves
2. Smell terrible
3. Destroy their homes with tar
4. Pay large sums money for something they don't need

I see you subscribe to the L. Ron Hubbard school of logic.


RE: Hardly surprising
By jtemplin on 3/16/2008 6:35:50 PM , Rating: 1
Apparently this guy is on disability too... Maybe stopping smoking would be a good start on turning things around.


RE: Hardly surprising
By encryptkeeper on 3/17/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hardly surprising
By afkrotch on 3/17/2008 8:45:30 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
You're not my friend. I don't associate with such cold and callous people such as yourself, let alone call them friend.

Any smoking is damaging to the health of the person lighting up and others around them. So really, get a clue...


It's about as damaging as being a non-smoker living in a large city...like New York City.


RE: Hardly surprising
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 2:52:11 PM , Rating: 2
By way of comparison, my dad's parents are still alive. My grandfather is 87 and my grandmother is 82. Both are very healthy and are likely to live for some time longer. The ONLY difference in the lifestyles of either set of grandparents that I ever noticed was the smoking. All of them ate/eat healthy foods and got/get regular exercise.

All of that matches up very well to all of the smoking related studies that have been conducted by many universities and governments all over the world.

So really, Brigandier, wise up...


RE: Hardly surprising
By Brigandier on 3/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hardly surprising
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 3:08:00 PM , Rating: 4
An interesting point. But that does not dismiss the fact that smoking is unhealthful. I fail to understand why anyone would inflict that kind of damage on themselves, not to mention how expensive a habit it is, and then get so defensive about. Do I love my departed grandparents? You bet do. But I still think they were foolish for not giving it up after they found out about all the risks...


RE: Hardly surprising
By encryptkeeper on 3/17/2008 10:39:14 AM , Rating: 1
people die for stupid senseless reasons

Too bad trolling isn't a capital offense.


RE: Hardly surprising
By retrospooty on 3/15/2008 5:21:46 PM , Rating: 1
I remember seeing a clip a few years ago on what was beleived to be (at the time) the worlds oldest woman. She was 121 years old. She was French. They asked her (through a translator) "what was your secret to living such a long healthy life" she stated "well, I eat right, try to stay active... and I quit smoking 5 years ago"

Not to say that smoking is good for you, but its all "relative".

Anyhow, back to point, I grew up around smokers and I used to smoke myself, and residue happens if you smoke in any non-ventilated space. It will build up on the inside of your car windshield, it will be all in your curtains, and all over your walls after just a few years. It WILL also be all mucked up inside your PC case. The residue is there, and is sticky and very VERY difficult to clean.


RE: Hardly surprising
By omnicronx on 3/15/2008 5:28:41 PM , Rating: 2
Its not all "relative". Smoking does not have a 100% kill rate on those who smoke. But it is a proven fact that it highly increases the chances of getting not only lung, but mouth, gum and many other types of cancers.

If you smoke for 40 years of your life, theres a good chance it will take a good chunk off your life. There really is no debating this.

BTW this all comes from your friendly neighboorhood smokes at least half a pack a day smoker ;)


RE: Hardly surprising
By retrospooty on 3/16/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hardly surprising
By HOOfan 1 on 3/17/2008 8:16:03 AM , Rating: 2
I've dropped my cell phone on hard surfaces several times, and it hasn't affected it yet, but that doesn't mean it is ok to continually drop it.


RE: Hardly surprising
By Creig on 3/17/2008 8:05:18 AM , Rating: 3
Ugh... Kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray.


RE: Hardly surprising
By afkrotch on 3/18/2008 6:18:02 AM , Rating: 2
And sometimes it's a really hot ashtray that licks back.


RE: Hardly surprising
By HighWing on 3/15/2008 1:24:20 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
I've smoked since I was 18, have one computer here that's 10yrs old and don't have any issues with any of the computers I run here.


I am actually rather surprised that you haven't had any issues with your computer. But then the question is do you smoke in the same room as your computer? If you do, then maybe you should open up your computer and take a look for yourself. Fact is from my experience, the dust inside a smokers computer not only looks bad, but is thicker the normal dust.


RE: Hardly surprising
By madeofpain on 3/15/2008 6:41:49 AM , Rating: 4
I cannot count the number of times I have opened up a clients computer and been struck with the odor of cigarette smoke. I have seen processor heatsinks completely clogged with cigarette goo and mixed with dust. I would imagine it is just the same for any other electronic device the smoker owns, as well as their lungs. Not only are they shortening their lifespan but the life of their electronic equipment. The last time I received a system from a heavy smoker I almost handed it back.


RE: Hardly surprising
By encryptkeeper on 3/17/2008 10:42:10 AM , Rating: 2
I've smoked since I was 18, have one computer here that's 10yrs old and don't have any issues with any of the computers I run here.

You're still using a computer that's ten years old? Wow what is that, a K6 233?


RE: Hardly surprising
By eye smite on 3/15/2008 7:48:49 AM , Rating: 1
Oh geez, I build computers on the side for people. Of course I've seen the inside of my cases. Of course I blow them out with canned air. Of course they're still working properly. Oh wait.........ok the 10 yr old system is the only thing where a R&R was needed and it's because the old TNT Riva card went out some time ago.


RE: Hardly surprising
By FITCamaro on 3/15/2008 9:55:57 AM , Rating: 5
I don't care if you smoke. Just don't do it around me. It smells like shit. We've got people at work who take smoke breaks every hour and I hate working around them because they smell like ass.

Not to mention its easy to tell women who smoke. It ages them so much faster. I can easily tell a girl who is a heavy smoker.


RE: Hardly surprising
By Polynikes on 3/15/2008 11:36:10 AM , Rating: 3
First off, I'm a former smoker.

That, however, does not change the fact that smoke leaves residue. Ever seen the teeth of a person that's smoked for 20+ years?


RE: Hardly surprising
By Lazarus Dark on 3/15/2008 3:03:44 PM , Rating: 2
One thing very different in the case of a Wii: there is no door. Air is sucked in through the front and over the lens. This is not the case in most situations. Your comps optical drive is fairly closed and has a door. Typically air would not be sucked through the drive very much. The same with a dvd player or whathaveyou. The Wii is unique in its always open drive and air being sucked through it.

And we only site the fact that many of us have seen the buildup in computers because then you can imagine what would happen to the lens of the Wii disc drive, considering the airflow across it.

If anyone is having this Smash Bros problem, apparently a blast of air should do it. Problem solved (hopefully).

PS: My stepdad smoked while the comp sat on the desk right next to the monitor, pulling the smoke directly through the front and through the comp. I'd have to clean out his comp every month or it would start overheating cause of the buildup. And the keyboard had to be replaced every six months cause the tar would make the keys stick.


RE: Hardly surprising
By aos007 on 3/20/2008 12:06:49 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you. I was waiting to see if anyone will point this obvious thing (Wii has a slot loading drive, hello!) but they are too busy debating the smoking.

However, so does the PS3 and I haven't heard of any problems related to smoke. Perhaps Wii's optical pickup and error-correcting hardware are a piece of crap after all.


RE: Hardly surprising
By Targon on 3/16/2008 8:30:26 AM , Rating: 2
If you have a ten-year-old computer, then chances are you don't have a DVD drive unless you added it later. Dual-layer may be the standard for most normal DVD movies, so it would be interesting to see how many regular DVD players end up being replaced due to smokers. With the price of a DVD player being under $100(many down near $50), most people would assume that the failures are due to the cheap nature of the low-cost DVD players when it is the air quality in the environment that is responsible.


RE: Hardly surprising
By eye smite on 3/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hardly surprising
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 1:46:54 PM , Rating: 5
You just gotta love the irony of that statement...


RE: Hardly surprising
By rcc on 3/17/2008 12:50:57 PM , Rating: 1
lol, smoked troll anyone?


RE: Hardly surprising
By Xodus Maximus on 3/14/2008 7:51:20 PM , Rating: 3
True, I remember "fixing" VCRs for family and friends when I was younger, nothing big just cleaning the head with isopropyl alcohol and replacing the usual broken belt with a rubber band. Anyway most were from smoking households, and I gross myself out from the yellow grime that covered the insides and especially the outside plastic face....ewww.

However this is mostly Nintendo's fault, It has an open slot that points upward in its stand. Did they not expect dust to fall in or smoke going in the opening, I mean cmon.


RE: Hardly surprising
By sprockkets on 3/14/2008 10:59:52 PM , Rating: 3
slot location is irrelevant. The wii like a computer runs a fan during operation and thus like a human being inhales the stuff.


RE: Hardly surprising
By Xodus Maximus on 3/15/2008 12:18:58 PM , Rating: 2
Oops, sorry I don't have a Wii, so I just assumed given the low specs of the system it didn't have a fan... bad assumption on my part...


RE: Hardly surprising
By Schugy on 3/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: Hardly surprising
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 2:03:08 PM , Rating: 2
An example of yet another ignorant statement. Nintendo has a reputation of building reliable products. The only Nintendo system I've ever had any issues with is my first NES[the blinking screen thing], which I still have and it still works perfectly. And after using a cleaning kit the problem was gone. My Wii is one of the originals and I've had zero issues with it.

Now if you'd like to discuss "Bad low cost engineering", let us discuss the Xbox 360 shall we?...


RE: Hardly surprising
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 2:11:06 PM , Rating: 2
Or perhaps the original Playstation?


RE: Hardly surprising
By Manch on 3/15/2008 6:23:27 PM , Rating: 1
don't forget the early PS2's


RE: Hardly surprising
By lexluthermiester on 3/16/2008 1:37:02 PM , Rating: 3
You know, I've only ever heard of the lens of the PS2's dying after a hard jolt. Other than that the PS2 has been a good piece of hardware. And I'm a Nintendite. I honestly wish the Gamecube had been more popular. But I'm loving it now! Wii is kicking but and will in the next few months over take the 360 in numbers of systems sold. Wii has been the #1 seller since it's release the world over. It's not hard to see why either, the games just rock. Don't get me wrong, I love my PS3, but if I had to choose 'tween it and my Wii... Hmmm.


RE: Hardly surprising
By Manch on 3/17/2008 5:31:35 PM , Rating: 2
There was a small batch at launch that had issues with locking up. I'm not sure if it was the pick up or what. I had one of them but sony replaced it really quickly and I still have that one now.


RE: Hardly surprising
By VashHT on 3/20/2008 3:49:32 PM , Rating: 2
Or perhaps the original NES?


RE: Hardly surprising
By Aquila76 on 3/14/2008 8:06:52 PM , Rating: 3
Yeppers. I though a candle or something had melted in my friend's chassis; everything had a glazed-donut look to it. Ended up being airborne tobacco 'grease' or whatever that is. Don't want to imagine what that looks like on the lungs.


RE: Hardly surprising
By ShadowZERO on 3/15/2008 8:37:15 AM , Rating: 3
I still remember my friends Super Nintendo console from when we were kids. His parents chain smoked, and the console had a permanent yellow tint to the plastic on the outside.


RE: Hardly surprising
By Alexvrb on 3/15/2008 2:00:40 PM , Rating: 4
Certain types of white plastic used in some production runs of various white consoles (and other white plastic hardware, toys, etc) can yellow (or yellow faster?) due to UV rays. That was a typical problem with some runs of the SNES, and a friend of mine has a slightly yellowed Dreamcast as well (although my launch DC appears unaffected). Smoking isn't always the culprit, nobody in his family smokes, for example.

Some plastics are more resistant to yellowing. Also, exposure to sunlight isn't the only way, but it does seem to cause it or accelerate it greatly. Some plastics yellow or break down due purely to age - or so it seems. Perhaps it's a combination of factors such as airborne contaminants (smoke, etc), oxidization, UV rays, etc.

I wonder if a plastic polish (such as the readily available Mothers Plastic Polish) would remove yellowing from a SNES? It is designed to work on clear or non-clear automotive plastics, it could be worth a shot.


RE: Hardly surprising
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 2:27:29 PM , Rating: 2
My original SNES had that problem. some of the parts were yellowing faster than others. I tried polishing it out to no avail. Then just decided to paint the thing. I used metallic paint, which worked very well. The finish effect looked very smart. Ended up trading it for a Super Famicom[Japanese SNES] and $60. Took the money bought Chrono Trigger. That was a rockin' deal!


RE: Hardly surprising
By Joz on 3/15/2008 11:04:02 AM , Rating: 2
its awfull to clean one of those.

Iv done it a few times. Not to mention the visual off that much built up gunk, tar and other stuff.

ew.


RE: Hardly surprising
By SharkManEXR on 3/15/2008 12:02:48 PM , Rating: 2
first computer repiar outside of work was like this; slime and gunk all over the inside, not to mention dead bugs; it was the grossest thing i've ever seen inside of the computer. cleaned it out and it stopped making the wirring noise the user was talking about. I could not get the smell out of the psu though, everytime she turned it on it smelled like an old dusty closet.


Problem solved
By kyleb2112 on 3/14/2008 9:29:19 PM , Rating: 5
Slapped a nicotine patch on mine and it's good to go.




RE: Problem solved
By Samus on 3/15/2008 3:20:48 AM , Rating: 1
Nintendo should hand out a bunch of joints and encourage their primary user base (appearantly the elderly) to smoke pot instead of cigarettes. Hell, some of them might even be able to get a prescription.

Pot smoke doesn't linger and has virtually no carcinogens, so the likely hood of its less poluting second-hand causing damage is much lower ;)


RE: Problem solved
By madeofpain on 3/15/2008 6:46:38 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Pot smoke doesn't linger and has virtually no carcinogens


So that makes it better? ;)


RE: Problem solved
By FITCamaro on 3/15/2008 9:59:29 AM , Rating: 1
I beg to differ. It does linger. A roommate in college toked up every now and then and I could smell that shit for days in his room.


RE: Problem solved
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 3:30:40 PM , Rating: 3
Agreed. Pot smoke lingers longer than tobacco smoke and is more pungent...


RE: Problem solved
By giantpandaman2 on 3/15/2008 9:01:17 PM , Rating: 2
Just to add to the fact that Samus is grossly misinformed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7217601.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7226969.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7150274.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6917003.stm

Of course, as always, take all studies with a grain of salt. In this case, though, I'd rather side on the overly cautious.


RE: Problem solved
By Samus on 3/16/08, Rating: 0
RE: Problem solved
By robinthakur on 3/17/2008 5:41:28 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure what you think you know about the BBC, but if you were from the UK you would know that actually the BBC is and has always been very left wing, so quite the opposite of Fox. The UK government HATES the BBC and virtually forced its director general to resign when the two parties disagreed! In fact Fox and the BBC have a long running spat with each other since Fox called one of the whistleblowers on the Iraq war dossier being basically put together by the press office a liar and the BBC generally worse than the third reich. Who's laughing now :)?

Marijuana consumption has only become massively widespread in the last 10 years. By massively widespread, in the UK, I mean you'll walk down the street or in the station and smell it. The health consequences and the mental consequences are still to be seen. I've known people who got so paranoid after regularly being heavy smokers of it that they because too paranoid to go outside (except to get more, obviously) and there is quite a few studies now which show it has serious effects on mental wellness. Since most people who SMOKE marijuana and cut it with tobacco with NO filter, I'd say that its just as bad if not worse for you than cigarettes.

Lastly Top Gear is a tongue-in-cheek (this means not fully serious for you Americans) programme on the BBC which loves being deliberately polically incorrect and is for petrol-heads. You are right in saying that the reach of the UK government has recently become absolutely ludicrous with congestion charging, road tolls in the offing, huge amounts of other taxation and a reduction in basic rights, not to mention a super-duper tax for the very rich. In short I'll be emmigrating poste haste. America, will you have me? I might wait until your recession cools off though to be honest. BTW if you do have funds in Bear Stearns, you might want to pull them now like 99% of your fellow investors as its going down.


RE: Problem solved
By P4blo on 3/17/2008 9:13:11 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Of course, who else but to trust but the BBC? Do you watch FOX news and gather tha family in the fallout shelter during ***FOX NEWS ALERTS*** too.


You haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. Shut up and stop spouting your idiotic head-up-your-ass FUD before I get all xenophobic and start calling you a stereotypical American - (displays little appreciation for the world outside his front door).

The BBC and Fox news are like comparing chalk and cheese. The BBC is a *non profit making news organisation*. It also doesn't lick the boots of the UK government so I'd say that makes it pretty trustworthy by comparison. Fox news? Jesus their reputation is in such tatters they've become a global joke.

You should also look at how internationally accepted the BBC has become. Many citizens from around the world use it to get an impartial view of world events when their own media is under state control or suffers other questionable external influences. There's a reason why China banned the site. Chinese officials report one thing (or nothing at all), BBC site says another. Oops, they believe the BBC site. I expect that can get annoying for the Chinese ministry of disinformation.


RE: Problem solved
By Samus on 3/16/2008 5:58:12 AM , Rating: 1
I just wasted valuable smoking time reading those BBC links you referred to in your unbelievably flawed defense toward marijuana health risks, and if you cared to read them, three of the four links you posted all end with 'there is still no conclusive evidence.'

You might as well referenced Wikipedia.

And if you knew jack about politics, you'd have paid attention to where those study's were based: the UK.

If you think the United States hates marijuana, try it there. Try anything there. Try speeding there. Read their traffic study's. Watch some Top Gear (irronically a BBC-funded program, but none-the-less, the hosts comment on how out-of-control the government is.)

It's practically 1984 all over again over there.


RE: Problem solved
By giantpandaman2 on 3/16/2008 11:54:36 AM , Rating: 1
Apparently your reading comprehension, or lack thereof, is what exacerbates your ignorance. The studies were based in New Zealand, Canada, and the UK.

Just about all epidemiological studies are inconclusive. That's the nature of the beast. They use statistical analysis to draw correlations between disease and habits, diet, etc. They do not actual microscopic/biological goings on that would make causation conclusive. (Such a study is very difficult to accomplish.) Does that mean epidemiology isn't valuable? If you say no, you have even less of an understanding for science and health than I thought.


RE: Problem solved
By Samus on 3/16/2008 5:30:20 PM , Rating: 2
I all the study's are so inconclusive and therefore statistically useless, why did you post four of them?

Why haven't we heard a case in recorded history of a pothead dying from lung cancer, or anything unusually biological, for that matter?


RE: Problem solved
By Kazairl2 on 3/15/2008 10:12:15 AM , Rating: 1
From what I read, the average joint puts out about as much tar as 8 Marlboros...

Here's a (not so) pretty picture:
http://www.mededu.miami.edu/Tobacco/MarijuanaTarSt...

So a couple of tokes a day would be about like smoking a pack a day of regular cigarettes.


RE: Problem solved
By Kazairl2 on 3/15/2008 10:25:36 AM , Rating: 1
From what I read, the average joint has considerably MORE tar than a tobacco cigarette.

Here's a (not so) pretty picture:
http://www.mededu.miami.edu/Tobacco/MarijuanaTarSt...

Just think, lighting up 3 or 4 tokes a day would be like a pack-a-day cigarette habit.


RE: Problem solved
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 2:09:05 PM , Rating: 2
Have you ever seen bong water? And that is just the crap the water actually filters out, most of the crap still slips through. Pot smoke is worse than tobacco smoke buy far...


RE: Problem solved
By Fnoob on 3/15/2008 10:53:04 PM , Rating: 2
Pot smoke is worse than tobacco smoke buy far...

Which is why you eat it, duh!

(don't try that with the cigarettes)


RE: Problem solved
By Samus on 3/16/2008 5:51:00 AM , Rating: 2
I'm going to clear this up plain and simple, especially those of you that obviously watch too much FOX news and probably voted for George Asshole Bush (sorry, but simply put you're a dumbass and are partly responsible for destroying our great country)

As a chemist, THC Delta-9 is a carcinogen inhibiter, making it a refractor for chemical elements that impeed lung health by preventing binding material such as TAR (commonly found in tobacco, and...marijuana.) However, as tobacco has no Delta-9 complex, it will kill you over time as there are no inhibitors to prevent binding to lung tissue.

There. You've been pwned. And if you smoke, double pwned for not smoking something that won't kill you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...


RE: Problem solved
By jlips6 on 3/16/2008 1:48:57 PM , Rating: 2
Where in the article does it say that THC prevents tar from binding to your lungs? Although this does make sense, i would like to see where it comes from.


RE: Problem solved
By Samus on 3/16/2008 5:33:26 PM , Rating: 2
This study doesn't elaborate on the THC anti-binding elements, but basically summarizes the results with the following...

quote:
Earlier work established that marijuana does contain cancer-causing chemicals as potentially harmful as those in tobacco, he said. However, marijuana also contains the chemical THC, which he said may kill aging cells and keep them from becoming cancerous


RE: Problem solved
By jtemplin on 3/21/2008 10:58:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Tashkin's group at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA had hypothesized that marijuana would raise the risk of cancer on the basis of earlier small human studies, lab studies of animals, and the fact that marijuana users inhale more deeply and generally hold smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers -- exposing them to the dangerous chemicals for a longer time. In addition, Tashkin said, previous studies found that marijuana tar has 50 percent higher concentrations of chemicals linked to cancer than tobacco cigarette tar.

While no association between marijuana smoking and cancer was found, the study findings, presented to the American Thoracic Society International Conference this week, did find a 20-fold increase in lung cancer among people who smoked two or more packs of cigarettes a day.


Interesting findings indeed. No difference compared to 20-fold difference. I wonder about the mechanism too...I was pretty much under the impression that smoking any organic plant material is bound to release a certain amount of carcinogen. But different kinds of materials release different kinds of carcinogens, I suppose. Also some research has shown that tobacco has radioactive polonium 210 in it via a certain radioactive fertilizer that decays into the above isotope. Hmm...just found a straight dope on this subject. They acknowledge the fertilizer aspect but have this to say:
quote:
The alleged claim by C. Everett Koop that radioactivity causes 90 percent of tobacco-related cancer has so far resisted the tracking skills of my research team (it's all over the Web, typically attributed to a Koop appearance "on national television"), but if he said it, it's way off from what everyone else says — including surgeon generals’ reports from before, during, and after his tenure. The U.S. National Council on Radiation Protection and Management estimates that if you've smoked for 50 years, polonium-210 accounts for 1 percent of your overall lung cancer risk.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/070928.html


Ebay.....
By Bigjee on 3/14/2008 8:10:02 PM , Rating: 3
Is that why some listings on Ebay have"comes from a smoke free home?" written on them. This would seem like a good reason though.




RE: Ebay.....
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 3/14/2008 8:11:03 PM , Rating: 5
Same with cars. I'd never buy a car that had been driven by a smoker. Filthy and disgusting.


RE: Ebay.....
By trustingsoup on 3/15/2008 4:18:11 AM , Rating: 1
I with I could avoid the filthy disgusting smoke that pours from the exhaust of cars. Yet, I'm stuck breathing that crap everyday. Second hand exhaust anyone?


RE: Ebay.....
By trustingsoup on 3/15/2008 4:18:54 AM , Rating: 2
I wish.....


RE: Ebay.....
By trustingsoup on 3/15/08, Rating: 0
RE: Ebay.....
By Alexstarfire on 3/15/2008 12:25:35 PM , Rating: 2
That's hardly the same thing. I doubt most people are going to come in contact with THAT much exhaust fumes. Second hand smoke on the other hand, you are much closer to the source, hence the worse the effects are. It'd be just like that guy breathing in all those exhaust fumes.


RE: Ebay.....
By madeofpain on 3/15/2008 6:45:04 AM , Rating: 2
I have never purchased anything from Ebay but that is interesting to know. I would probably be more likely to buy from someone if they added that line after plenty of experience with tobacco'ed up computer systems.


Dubious
By rainwalker on 3/15/2008 2:14:47 AM , Rating: 3
I'm not sure why the guys above me got rated down for their doubtful opinions. I didn't see anything wrong with their thoughts.

I'm a wii/ssbb owner and I recently experienced the disc read error. I find it a little hard to believe that it's from second-hand smoke, though. I have a cigarette about once every month or two but I never smoke inside and keep my wii at an unconcealed but semi-remote location. The "smokiest" thing I've ever done around my wii (like two weeks ago) was to take off a shirt that I had been wearing after I had a cigarette and throw it onto my couch. Neither myself, my shirt, or my couch was ever closer than four or five feet from my wii. Furthermore, SSBB played fine for like the first twelve hours. All of a sudden it started making weird disc reading sounds. I powered the system off the first time to let it cool down or whatever. The second time I turned it on it played fine for an hour or so and then started making the noise again. I decided to let it continue until it became very loud and sounded like it was shredding my disc. After powering it off the second time, I couldn't get it to read any discs anymore. Smoke just doesn't seem (to me) like the likely culprit in my case.

I already sent my unit off to Nintendo but, just in case it ever happens again (which also raises the obvious question: is Nintendo going to have us send our units in to be cleaned on a regular basis or are they making some kind of hardware modification?), has anyone tried the compressed air-cleaning trick and had it fail? After reading a post online, I tried the oldschool cartidge-blowing trick (which didn't work) but I never used a powered canister. Does it always work?




RE: Dubious
By Inkjammer on 3/15/2008 3:42:38 AM , Rating: 3
My Wii also has issues with SSBB and... I don't smoke. In fact, my room has an air purifier to remove dust/lint particles from the air.

The kicker: my Wii is one of the originals Wiis produced, but has only been out of box for about two weeks. That's it. TWO WEEKS. I was overseas in Kyrgyzstan for almost a year, never had a chance to play it. So it sat, mint, unopened, for almost a year. Read: my original production Wii is having problems with a game... and it just came out of the original packaging almost a year later.

I don't buy the "smoke" argument at all.


RE: Dubious
By madeofpain on 3/15/2008 6:48:16 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
I don't buy the "smoke" argument at all.


I don't either, but it probably doesn't help.


RE: Dubious
By jackedupandgoodtogo on 3/16/2008 1:36:39 AM , Rating: 2
Supposedly the original Wii drives have lower laser power (DL drives tends to have problems reading certain DL discs, which is why they have firmware updates frequently, to support more brands) making them more likely to fail reading the second layer of SSBB. I have a 3rd rev Wii and the game runs fine.


smoking just an excuse
By Ixion on 3/15/2008 2:35:24 PM , Rating: 2
Whilst I can understand smoke being detrimental the Wii should still be able to read DL disks,lots of Xbox/360 disks are dual layer as are most commercial DVDs you stick in a DVD player, you don't tend to hear of problems playing them because they're dual layer. Sounds like an overly sensitive set of optics or cheap lenses to me.




RE: smoking just an excuse
By lexluthermiester on 3/15/2008 3:42:42 PM , Rating: 3
Not true. I have a few friends[that smoke tobacco and pot] who've had to do lens cleanings on their Sony's, Sega's, Gamecube's, Xbox's and DVD players. One of them is a laserdisc collector and has to clean the optic in his player every six months. Nasty business that.

It's only matter of time before all of the tar and gunk from the smoke gets onto the lenses, which then requires a cleaning. It is a fact of a smokers life...