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The new turbine looks a lot like a wind turbine, but operates based on tidal flow.  (Source: Scottish Power)

The turbines are weighted to hold them to the sea floor.  (Source: Scottish Power)

If you've never heard of the Pentland Firth, here's a helpful map of where it is in reference to northern Scotland.  (Source: BBC)
New plant likely to be complete in 2020, will power up to 40,000 homes

DailyTech recently reported that the world's first wave-power plant was coming online.  Constructed by a Scottish firm, the plant featured 3 large wave generators off the coast of Portugal.  Now a new plant initiative has been launched by the enterprising Scots.

Engineering firm Scottish Power announced the launch of a major tidal power plant project.  The new project will be located locally in the Pentland Firth, Sound of Islay and Antrim coast, all coastal regions of northern Scotland.  The new project may be the largest tidal plant at the time of its completion and perhaps is the first tidal plant to qualify as more than an experimental project.  Russia also has a massive 10 GW tidal plant planned, but only currently has 1.5 MW of installed capacity.

The Pentland Firth seabed will be leased from Crown Estate.  The project there could be complete by approximately 2020.  The Crown Estate identified Caithness and Sutherland coasts and around Orkney as prime tidal power locations.  Scotland's first minister, Alex Salmond called the firth "the Saudi Arabia of marine energy".

The new project will be Scottish Power's chance to deploy its Lanstrom device, the new tidal turbine it’s been cooking up.  Up to 60 turbines are planned for the project, with up to 20 at each site.  Each turbine generates 1 MW, so the combined plant could generate 60 MW, or enough to power 40,000 homes.

The turbine stands 30 m tall, and can be as deep as 100 m below sea level.  It has been tested in a Norwegian fjord.  Scottish Power insists the turbine is harmless to marine life, but the Marine Conservation Society is demanding a thorough environmental impact analysis.  Normal ships can pass over it, but trawlers are banned from regions where the turbines are deployed.

Nonetheless, Scottish Power is very excited about the new plant.  Scottish Power' renewables director Keith Anderson said, "The rapid technological advancement of tidal power has enabled us to progress plans for this substantial project which has the real potential to deliver significant environmental and economic benefits."

The opening of the firth to commercial development is a vital step, he says.  He described, "These developments are a significant step forward in Scotland's journey to become a world leader in the development of renewable energy.  The Pentland Firth is the Saudi Arabia of marine power.  Our seas alone could provide 25% of Europe's tidal power and 10% of wave power. The vast potential of the Pentland Firth will mean more investment, more jobs and more opportunities for the Caithness area."

The new project could boost a sagging Scottish economy, impacted by the closure of Dounreay, a former nuclear power complex.  It should also prove an ideal test deployment of a full-scale commercial tidal plant.

Internet giant Google recently made waves when it filed a patent for tidal-powered barge data-centers, leading to speculation that it might be cooking up a computer navy.



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Tidal?
By invidious on 9/30/2008 5:50:50 PM , Rating: 2
It seems to me that this has nothing to do with tides and more to do with water currents. This is simply a wind turbine put under water. Which seems like a good enough idea to me.

Water currents probably have more potential energy to capture then air current as they have so much more mass. It is also probably a bit more consistant than airflow. Best yet its not visable from land so no one can complain its dragging down their property values.




RE: Tidal?
By foolsgambit11 on 9/30/2008 6:13:42 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
It seems to me that this has nothing to do with tides and more to do with water currents.
Well, yes and no. Tides are in one sense just oscillating water currents. If you're going to capture the power of moving water near land, you'll probably be talking about tides, though. They're stronger than currents in most exploitable locations around the world.
quote:
This is simply a wind turbine put under water.
Not simply. Wind turbines and water turbines are both turbines, so they are going to look similar. But the environmental sealing of a water turbine is a more complicated engineering problem. Salt water is especially damaging to equipment. Dissimilar metals will cause galvanic corrosion in salt water even when they're not touching. Sensitive electronics must be completely sealed. Currents and corrosion can cause gassing, and that has to be able to escape. Each turbine will definitely be more expensive, both in initial cost and in maintenance and repair.

I wonder how fast these turbines spin - that would seem to be a major factor in just how 'damaging' they would be to marine life.


RE: Tidal?
By Souka on 9/30/2008 7:00:21 PM , Rating: 2
my thoughts exactly on marine life.

I can see it now... "pod of blue whales made into sashimi by turbines"


RE: Tidal?
By rudolphna on 9/30/2008 9:01:04 PM , Rating: 1
maybe they should think like a desk fan. Giant grille that keeps big fish (like whales) from entering the turbine. It should spin slow enough that small fish wont be as affected. It will be much more effective than a wind plant, as water creates far more friction, and has much more force/


RE: Tidal?
By Fnoob on 9/30/2008 10:50:23 PM , Rating: 2
Beat me to it. Why not a typical grill enclosure like on a home air fan? Might screw with the flow too much? Would definitely keep these things from becoming underwater chum factories. My kids do like fish sticks though...


RE: Tidal?
By Solandri on 9/30/2008 11:16:23 PM , Rating: 3
Grills are already used in cooling water intakes for nuclear plants. They get fouled by marine organisms (barnacles, kelp, etc) and you have to send a diver down regularly to scrape them off. If you can invent a material which these organisms will not adhere themselves to, you will become a billionaire, as well as improve the efficiency of ships and water-cooled power generation plants worldwide.


RE: Tidal?
By ViroMan on 10/1/2008 4:44:52 AM , Rating: 1
Has anyone ever thought to electrify the grill a tad. An electric current in the water sure as hell keeps sharks away. I would guess the same of other marine life.


RE: Tidal?
By rtrski on 10/1/2008 9:14:06 AM , Rating: 5
Electrify metal underwater and you've just made the marine life accretion that much more efficient, as the cathode basically forms limestone on it as a consequence of electrolysis. That's the concept behind the "BioRock" artificial reef seeding structures.


RE: Tidal?
By Kary on 10/1/2008 4:33:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you can invent a material which these organisms will not adhere themselves to, you will become a billionaire


Teflon?

Not sure if it would work...besides..I'm a little late on the inventing part even if it does :(


RE: Tidal?
By Reclaimer77 on 10/1/2008 6:16:18 PM , Rating: 2
Salt water is terribly corrosive... Teflon probably isn't a good approach.


RE: Tidal?
By cherrycoke on 10/1/2008 10:26:54 PM , Rating: 2
Are you saying teflon is not corrosive resistant? Or are you saying that teflon would not be well suited for a grille? I agree that teflon might not be suited for a structural application like a grille (depends on how much strength is needed) but it definately will handle saltwater.


RE: Tidal?
By vandalizmo on 10/1/2008 4:43:37 AM , Rating: 2
My thought. Water has much more force and friction so, let's say - there's much more power in water, but on the other hand turbine/fan needs to beat that water friction to start spinning... I wonder where is golden middle...


RE: Tidal?
By BeastieBoy on 10/1/2008 6:14:07 AM , Rating: 3
If trawler fishing is banned in these areas, then they could become ideal breeding grounds for many fish species.


RE: Tidal?
By monitorjbl on 10/1/2008 9:42:15 AM , Rating: 2
These things are basically underwater windmills, as far as I can tell; I wouldn't imagine they move very fast. Do they really present much of a threat to marine life?


RE: Tidal?
By Murloc on 10/2/2008 8:11:59 AM , Rating: 2
it would be slow, it may be a problem only with whales.
We'll see what happens.


RE: Tidal?
By Ammohunt on 9/30/2008 6:17:22 PM , Rating: 2
Seems to me that power systems of these types will be extremely expensive maintenance headaches; Imagine working on these things at 100m depth as they age they will be const prohibitive.


RE: Tidal?
By omnicronx on 10/1/2008 10:08:29 AM , Rating: 2
Not only that, but a mere 60MW of power? A bunch of hamsters running on treadmills could generate more electricity.


RE: Tidal?
By rcc on 10/1/2008 2:04:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It is also probably a bit more consistant than airflow


Yes and no. While you know when and how much the tides will flow, there are 2 dead times per day, and the flow around these times ebbs, stops, then starts up in the other direction.

So, it's not a constant power source, but it is more reliable than wind as far as predictability goes.


RE: Tidal?
By cherrycoke on 10/1/2008 10:30:03 PM , Rating: 2
Do we know if they will swivel to accommodate the direction of the tide? It would be another moving part but it seems like it might be more effective if they did.


RE: Tidal?
By spluurfg on 10/2/2008 2:02:51 PM , Rating: 2
Swivelling would be nice, but if they are made to generate power bidirectionally (i.e. whether spinning clockwise or counter-clockwise) and the axis was aimed parallel to the direction of the tide that could be a simpler solution.


RE: Tidal?
By rcc on 10/2/2008 3:31:34 PM , Rating: 2
Precisely. There really isn't a need to swivel if you site them correctly. A generator will output power in either direction, and the power companies are used to matching phase.


U.S.
By homernoy on 9/30/2008 6:41:10 PM , Rating: 2
I'm a little suprised that they haven't done more of this in the U.S.. Here in Washington State as well as Oregon there is a lot of coastline that could be used inside of the shipping lanes. Even though fourty thousand is a relatively small number of households, it's a start.




RE: U.S.
By Oregonian2 on 9/30/2008 7:48:34 PM , Rating: 2
Still building air-powered ones as fast as they can be bought and installed (mostly in Eastern Oregon). They're probably cheaper to build and maintain than the underwater ones -- but still produce electricity much more expensively than traditional sources (TBD how long that lasts though). Think the underwater ones might be left until later when the technology gets a little more mature and tested -- I have no problems letting others pay for the development when it's still inefficient and expensive. It's okay not to be first on the bleeding edge.


RE: U.S.
By Dribble on 10/1/2008 5:03:32 AM , Rating: 2
Big advantage over air is that the tide is completely predictable - you know exactly how much power you will get. Air might provide lots of power, or it might provide nearly nothing for weeks if it wasn't windy. You just don't know.


RE: U.S.
By Oregonian2 on 10/1/2008 3:33:27 PM , Rating: 2
So you're suggesting that the investment money used in other alternatives such as wind should be shelved and that dollar amount of available capital expense go toward tidal power? Will the results for that same dollar expenditure give better overall results (taking into account run-time expenses as well as the capital expense)?


RE: U.S.
By DaveLessnau on 10/1/2008 12:43:19 PM , Rating: 2
About 10 days ago, it looks like they finally got a tidal generator working in the East River off New York city. It took them three tries, though. The water flow basically tore the blades off the first couple of tries. I saw something on the television a while back on this and thought it seemed a bit un-thought-out. As others have noted here, the set up is basically some naked blades spinning in the current generated by the tidal flows. The East River right off New York city doesn't sound like a good place to put such a non-enclosed turbine (good for power transmission, bad for fish, divers (yuck) and ships with keels.


Terrestrials Against Rotational Decay
By phxfreddy on 9/30/2008 8:26:02 PM , Rating: 1
WE are going to launch the moon out of its orbit!
WE are going to slow the rotation of the earth with this misguided scheme.

Join Terrestrials Against Rotational Decay to help fight this misguided tidal turbine. Find out more at following page:

http://www.amarketplaceofideas.com/terrestrials-ag...

...because the only thing worse that global warming is an earth that does not turn.




By Fnoob on 9/30/2008 10:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
Jebus! Of all the real and fabricated things to be paranoid about these days, people actually are worried about this?

However, the thought did occur to me that as the turbines absorb potential energy from the tides, that the gain we receive as energy would have to be a loss somewhere. Unless it was stretched along the entire coastline of a country, the impact shouldn't be too significant.


RE: Terrestrials Against Rotational Decay
By Misty Dingos on 10/1/2008 9:02:16 AM , Rating: 2
I think you have already joined the Responsible Environmentalist Terrans Against Reprehensible Debacles.


By phxfreddy on 10/1/2008 2:46:35 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah man Ima joiner. These causes make my useless existence meaningful. Especially global warming.


By phxfreddy on 10/1/2008 2:52:57 PM , Rating: 2
You might be surprised but that organization now exists:
http://www.amarketplaceofideas.com/join-responsibl...


Great Scot !!!
By ProModeler on 9/30/2008 6:09:57 PM , Rating: 5
They would only need to build 20.16 of these Tidal Plant Projects to run the flux capacitor!




RE: Great Scot !!!
By Fnoob on 9/30/08, Rating: 0
Cost
By ebakke on 9/30/2008 6:52:17 PM , Rating: 2
Well...what does it cost?




RE: Cost
By BansheeX on 10/1/2008 1:40:08 PM , Rating: 2
Cost per watt relative to existing technologies was the one thing Mick didn't want you to ask. It's cool and strange, isn't that enough for you? Effing demanding populace, I tell you...


Sea Energy
By BLUSTERINGBARNACLES on 10/1/2008 4:58:58 AM , Rating: 2
a few points. ScottishPower are part of Iberdrola who combined make up the largest renewable generator in the world
The three sites are not in Northern Scotland. Islay is in the western isles and Antrim is part of the Northern Ireland coast.

Scotland is at the forefront of marine energy.
It is a sector in its infancy. However in a short time the generation capability has risen faster than the 20 years it took wind turbines
The Pentland firth (stretch of water between North Scotland and the Orkney isles) has been estimated to be capable of producing 4 GW by 2020 and 20GW by 2030 - 2050. It has one of the strongest currents in the world as the water from the Atlantic and North sea is pushed between two land masses

All environmental impact assessments have shown there will be little impact on wildlife and may even act as new nurseries for fish stocks as fishing and trawler boats will be banned for safety reasons




RE: Sea Energy
By Amiga500 on 10/1/2008 9:26:40 AM , Rating: 2
This concept is under trail at Strangford lough, a few miles down the road from me:

http://www.seageneration.co.uk/


LOL
By xenos123 on 9/30/2008 7:33:06 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
enterprising Scots

LOL




Just don't touch my scotch!
By 7Enigma on 10/2/2008 7:38:40 AM , Rating: 2
This is the same location that the Scapa Whiskey is produced, and I must say it is fantastic. Not too easy to find in the US, but if you can get your hands on a bottle give it a shot. Smooth as butter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapa




By CubicleDilbert on 10/4/2008 1:40:28 PM , Rating: 2
This is a serious subject, read on...
Currently working on projects in Germany I read a long article about all this exciting new alternative energy as it is seen in Germany.
The German government, and I dare to say that all other European governments will certainly follow, has started to drastically increase the taxes on alternative energy.
We all heard about Bio-Fuel a few years ago as an alternative to OPEC oil, and fields of bio-fuel started to pop up across Germany.
Now, with all the success and the forced 8-10% bio-fuel in diesel at the gas station, the German government dropped the financial incentives for farmers to grow bio-fuel on their fields. On the contrary, farmers now have to pay oil tax, just as the big oil companies.
NOW: electricity!
Imagine that 80% of the fuel price in Germany, France, Italy etc., is tax! That makes Billions of tax dollars per year.
You want to drive your new Smart Electro car? You want to build your own wind turbine on your house to charge your car overnight?
Well, think again...!
The governments have decided that apart from car taxes we will have to pay for electricity even when we generate it on our own, because our car still uses streets (for what we already pay car tax) and by not tanking gasoline you would have an unfair tax benefit (actually tax avoidance fraught!) compared to your neighbours. That means, once electric cars are established we will pay electricity tax based on the kW performance of our car.
And since the governments have fully included the tax dollars in their budgets it is certain that pretty soon electric cars will cost the same as gasoline driven cars per mile. Regardless of new underwater or wind turbines.
Last winter there was a highly debated court order in Germany where a guy modified his VW diesel and tanked used free grease from Burger King (it smells like French Fries even after filtering).
He got charged with tax evasion fraud because there is no mineral oil tax on vegetable oil, not even on used oil. If caught by police again he will go to prison.

NOW: Think again, your wind turbine on your roof. Using the electricity for your house or electric car will put you pretty soon in court. They will charge you for untaxed use of wind! I am serious.

Some Politians, in my mind, are often close to brain-dead, perverted monkeys.




Makes sense...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/08, Rating: -1
RE: Makes sense...
By darkblueslider on 9/30/2008 6:33:41 PM , Rating: 5
What the hell has land got to do with it? Tidal Power is underwater!

I love the suggestion "For industrialised nations that people actually move to".
Scotland is, unsurprisingly a industrialised nation that people actually move to.
Net migration rate: 4.1 migrant(s) per 1,000 population
http://www.scotland.org/about/fact-file/population...

Incidentally, Scotland, 167.5 people per square mile, compared to 31 for the US.
I.E. Scotland has a lot less "un-used" land than the US (And over 100 over countries)


RE: Makes sense...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/08, Rating: -1
RE: Makes sense...
By B3an on 9/30/2008 7:20:15 PM , Rating: 5
More like someone got owned.


RE: Makes sense...
By quiksilvr on 9/30/2008 8:12:22 PM , Rating: 1
RE: Makes sense...
By foolsgambit11 on 9/30/2008 7:28:35 PM , Rating: 2
I think, despite his misunderstandings about Scotland, that his point is still valid - i.e., 40 thousand homes powered by a project that hopes to be running in a decade, when Scotland adds (we'll average here) about 15 thousand households a year to its numbers. So they'd need to build one of these projects every two and a half years or so just to keep up with household growth (assuming the power draw of each household stays constant, not guaranteed since a large part of the housing increase is because household size is getting smaller, plus you've got to figure in advancing technology both in energy conservation and in additional power drains from computerization &c.... Sorry, that's a rambler, but I don't care if it doesn't make sense because it's off topic anyway). Of course, this is just a beginning, and the hope is that production would be ramped up.

Still, Scotland has more than two and a half million households, so this will power less than 2% of households. On the other hand, this will power nearly 2% of all households. Glass half empty, glass half full. Scotland could, thanks to its size and resources, become a leader in 'clean' power, at least as a percentage of power consumption. Of course, there was no mention in the article, or the linked article, about the cost of this endeavor. So who knows how effective this will be.

Scottish household numbers from:
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/press/2008-news/inc...


RE: Makes sense...
By Aloonatic on 10/1/2008 3:17:01 AM , Rating: 1
They have a lot of natural energy resources up there in Kiltland and I hope that they manage to get more of these sorts of projects up and running in a sustainable manner.

I would much rather be getting my electricity (here in England) from the haggis munchers than our now Frog owned nuclear plants or power stations run on natural gas our wonderfully reliable and fair-play minded vodka swilling friends in the Russia.

How did we get into this state with our energy supplies?

Oh yes, having a Scotsman in charge of the country who has a brother who works for EDF energy (the aforementioned Frogland company that have just bought our nuclear future) great work Gordon.

4 more years*, 4 more years*, nooooooooooooooo.

*I am all too aware that parliamentary sessions last for longer than that in the UK :(


RE: Makes sense...
By Aloonatic on 10/1/2008 4:15:05 AM , Rating: 2
I got so caught up in my anti Brown rant that I forgot the main point that I wanted to make. :-s

The amount of energy produced by these devices are not going to power the entire country (let alone the extra capacity for export that my previous post alluded to) but they are going to help towards reaching their main objective, which is to hit EU targets on renewable energy.

I'm not sure about the ins and outs of it, something along the lines of 12% renewable by 2010 and 20% by 2020.

There will probably be fines involved that the British government will pay right away whilst other nations will put it off and wait until it's forgotten about if the system is to run true to form.

Any who, anything that removes/reduces dependency of gas for electricity generation cannot be a bad thing.

As North Sea oil and gas begins to dry up it would be great for Scotland if they could keep energy production as a part of their economy and make use of the skills that have been developed and learnt in keeping those offshore oil rigs running as I am guessing these tidal and the other wave generation plants will need similar types of people to keep them operational.


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