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SanDisk Sansa slotMusic Player  (Source: SanDisk)
SanDisk offers Sansa just for slotMusic format

In the heyday of music sales before the advent and mass adoption of digital audio players, record labels reaped massive profits off the back of music sales on CDs. Today, the same music labels are seeing profits drop to record lows as consumers embrace the digital age of music sales.

To try to get back to the profitable physical music formats of yore, most major record labels threw their backing behind a new format called slotMusic in September. The format is nothing more than a microSD card that has digital tracks preloaded when purchased.

The problem facing slotMusic, other than the fact that physical format music sales are virtually extinct, is that the class-leading iPod lacks a microSD card slot. The iPod may not be slotMusic compatible, but SanDisk's line of Sansa players are and SanDisk has announced a special DAP just for the slotMusic format.

The good thing about the player itself is that the device is cheap at $19.99, and it should be cheap given the features. The device has no internal storage, no LCD, and no internal rechargeable battery. Power for the device comes from plain batteries. On one end of the Sansa slotMusic Player is the needed microSD card slot.

SanDisk says that the device allows users to listen to music on the go without the need for a PC and as such, there is no sync port. Daniel Schreiber senior VP and general manager for SanDisk said in a statement, " With no need for computers or cords, the Sansa slotMusic Player gives consumers more time to play, and less time to worry about managing or downloading their music,” said Daniel Schreiber, senior vice president and general manager for SanDisk. “SanDisk is all about building products that are easy for consumers to enjoy. Just insert your favorite artist’s slotMusic card into the Sansa slotMusic player and press play."

In addition to the standard player at $19.99, SanDisk will also sell special edition players bundled with a slotMusic album and special artwork for the player. All Sansa slotMusic players have removable skins for customization. The special edition player bundle will retail for $34.99.

The players share the same physical dimensions of 2.75-inches W x 1.4375-inches H x 1.4375-inches D and weigh slightly more than two ounces. A set of ear bud style headphones will also be included with the purchase. Along with the players, SanDisk is also going to market a line of accessories for the slotMusic format and the players specifically. Among the accessories will be a Sansa Card Wallet, armband, and additional player shells for customization. The player may not have any internal storage of its own, but it can playback any tracks on any microSD card encoded in MP3 or DRM-free WMA formats. SanDisk says that the players will be available in the U.S. and Europe in 2009.

Despite dedicated players and backing from music labels like Sony BMG, Universal, Warner, and EMI the slotMusic format has a very tough road to face. Looking at the price of the normal player versus a player bundled with a card the difference is $15. If the slotMusic format albums retail for $15 or more the vast majority of digital music fans will simply continue to buy digital albums and stick with much more popular DAPs like the iPod or iPhone.

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Wrong direction
By sherifftaylor on 10/16/2008 12:04:19 PM , Rating: 5
Wow. This seems like a big step backwards. Why would anyone want this? If someone is that scared of using a computer I doubt they would try this "new" technology. Seems they would just stick to their good ole walkman.




RE: Wrong direction
By Hieyeck on 10/16/2008 12:14:51 PM , Rating: 2
At the same time, the change is a lot smaller. All you have is your play/pause/stop/skip buttons, volume, and the slot you put music media in.


RE: Wrong direction
By Adonlude on 10/16/2008 3:16:26 PM , Rating: 3
This will go the way of the mini disk players, only faster.


RE: Wrong direction
By audiomaniaca on 10/16/2008 10:18:08 PM , Rating: 3
MDs were cool!


RE: Wrong direction
By acer905 on 10/16/2008 12:18:26 PM , Rating: 2
I think that, if this were to have a random feature, it could be a cheap version of one of the "shuffle" type of mp3 players with essentially unlimited memory.


RE: Wrong direction
By InvertMe on 10/16/2008 12:22:43 PM , Rating: 3
I agree. I think you could just offer this form of music purchase on an already existing MP3 player.

I have been waiting for in store digital downloads from Best Buy or some other brick and mortar store. Choose your music from a kiosk pc, swip your card and it either spits out a memory card or you can connect your mp3 player directly to the system and have the music uploaded for you. Seems like a great way for people to get music who don't really know how to use their PC or want to mess with horrible interfaces like itunes.


RE: Wrong direction
By TechGuyCalifornia on 10/16/2008 12:25:30 PM , Rating: 2
Basically, it is true, you have to download songs to your mp3 player or Ipod and you get bored of them thus erasing/formatting and then replacing with more songs. So this would be a great player to actually buy entire cd sets and just throw it in. You would have little chips all over your car that you could just throw in. It would be similiar to CD's yet NO CD to hassle with and no scratching. I think this tech would be great for the car players and such. Anyway, just brain storming here. Don't think that this will take off at all, but oh well.


RE: Wrong direction
By christojojo on 10/16/2008 2:41:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You would have little chips all over your car that you could just throw in.


Great,oops son I just stepped on your microdisk music collection.

Look on face - anger
cost - well at least the economy got its music stimulus check from me.

The only way I would consider it, is if it gives me the chance to make copies on my pc/ mp3 player. My personal cd collection is now in the basement as proof of purchase. Those micro-sd would take up a lot less space.

BTW: I agree that it is doomed to fail.


RE: Wrong direction
By afkrotch on 10/17/2008 7:28:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It would be similiar to CD's yet NO CD to hassle with and no scratching. I think this tech would be great for the car players and such.


It's called USB. There are multiple head units out there with a USB slot. I have like 15 USB keys in my car now with music on them. Whenever I find the storage of an old USB key to not be enough, I purchase a larger one. Then the old one ends up being stuffed with music and used with my car.

There isn't anything hard about it either. Plug in the stick, drag over music, pull stick out, use in the car. Also the head unit plays CDs, so if I buy a CD at the store, I can listen to it while I drive. I never buy CDs though as they are fragile pieces of crap.

I'd much rather see recording labels put their music on a small USB stick. They already come super tiny and can be even smaller for sold music, as they wouldn't need to be 4 gigs. Just 600megs or less for a full album/single.


RE: Wrong direction
By nomagic on 10/16/2008 12:28:05 PM , Rating: 3
Exactly, this card-like storage media is no different from CD. Instead of purchasing only the tracks you like on the internet, with this media, music labels can bundle shitty music and raise price, just like with CD.

This is also like going back to the stone age, where people have to change CD/cartridge if they want to listen to songs from another album. You can't even create your own play-lists/collections.

What kind of genius came up with this destined-to-fail device?


RE: Wrong direction
By Spivonious on 10/16/2008 12:36:37 PM , Rating: 2
LOL the stone age? I still primarily use CDs for listening to music and so do 90% of my friends.


RE: Wrong direction
By Cypherdude1 on 10/16/2008 4:47:31 PM , Rating: 2
Only a few of the tracks on my CD's are my favorites. I have ripped all my CD's, using a simple (and fast and free) program called CDex. I usually listen to my MP3's on my computer's Altec Lansing 2.1 speakers. Recently, I have been experimenting with inexpensive flash RAM MP3 players which I hooked up to an FM transmitter for my car. It works well and I can take my music with me anywhere now. I haven't listened to my CD's for years. They sit unused in my nylon-covered 30-CD cases. Occasionally, I must vacuum the dust off them. B ^D

I could never return to using CD's. CD's spin at 300 RPM (I believe) and are just too slow. In addition, I would constantly be changing out discs. My 20 year old Sharp CD boombox also sits unused. I would like to buy a JVC Kaboom Box which reads MP3 burned CD-RW's though. It's virtually impossible to find them and the ones you can are over $250.
quote:
LOL the stone age? I still primarily use CDs for listening to music and so do 90% of my friends.


RE: Wrong direction
By christojojo on 10/16/2008 5:18:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
CD's spin at 300 RPM (I believe) and are just too slow.


Sorry , just funny. Like speed more than or less than the required amount matters. I'd like to see you listen to a cd going at 600 rpm. For the format it is what it needs. It like saying 33 1/3 records move too slowly. Early records moved at 78rpms.


RE: Wrong direction
By afkrotch on 10/17/2008 7:52:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
LOL the stone age? I still primarily use CDs for listening to music and so do 90% of my friends.


Yep, the stone age. I have usb keys for the car, Zune for short trips, computer with music while at home, iRiver mp3 player for snowboarding, and usb keys for work.

Whenever I buy a CD I listen to it in the car on the way home. Once home, the CD gets ripped.

I don't like getting tied down to the same 16-18 song or having to carry a bunch of CDs. Last weekend I walked around Dusseldorf with my 80 gig Zune. Had access to my 5000ish songs on it. How many CDs you gonna be carrying to compete with that?


RE: Wrong direction
By Silver2k7 on 10/18/2008 5:42:08 AM , Rating: 2
Stone age would be the wax rolls or the stone cakes (if they are called that in english) the ones that where as big as LP's but had a single track on each sides. ;)

Ive ripped all my cds except the last 5 bargin albums, will do that soon.. but considering the fragaile nature of todays *stone age* harddrives [they got platters that spin, so it must be stone age right] *rolls eyes*.. cd's are a good way to know that your music will still be there once your harddrive crash and burn.. that said ive got it all backed up to a 2nd drive.


RE: Wrong direction
By HighWing on 10/16/2008 12:55:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is also like going back to the stone age, where people have to change CD/cartridge if they want to listen to songs from another album. You can't even create your own play-lists/collections.


I agree. I could swear that the whole appeal of iPods and other music players is that you Do Not have to carry around wallets of CD's just to listen to different songs. With this slot music scheme, people will have to carry around small cases of memory cards. Which like CD's run the risk of being lost or misplaced. The only people I see really buying this are ones that don't have access to a computer... which I could be wrong, but I am assuming is a rather small number of music shopers.


RE: Wrong direction
By strikeback03 on 10/16/2008 1:09:44 PM , Rating: 2
It would seem they missed the opportunity to put space on the player to hold several microSD cards. That would seem a logical inclusion if they expect people to buy single albums on these cards and swap back and forth.


RE: Wrong direction
By Cypherdude1 on 10/16/2008 4:58:15 PM , Rating: 2
The inexpensive second tier MP3 makers have already done this. Most of their better video-MP3 players have a micro-SD slot already included. Apple just never bothered. I suspect they'll start making their newer iPods with slots in the future. If you're interested in looking over products from the second tier makers, read my post below.
quote:
It would seem they missed the opportunity to put space on the player to hold several microSD cards.


RE: Wrong direction
By mmntech on 10/16/2008 5:08:23 PM , Rating: 2
The reason RIAA likes it is because they make more money selling albums than they do singles. It allows them to push unpopular songs that wouldn't sell well otherwise. The idea makes perfect sense to the recording company dinosaurs who still believe the CD is king and their customers are crooks.

Sony learned this the hard way when they faced dismal UMD sales for the PSP. There was going to be UMD music at one point. When it comes to mobile devices, convenience reigns supreme. With my iPhone, I can actually hop onto the iTunes Store at any WiFi hotspot and download my songs directly without touching my computer. Then they come up with a concept where I have to go back to buying music at a brick and mortar store for $15. Not only that, the songs are not lossless quality like CDs are, and therefore offer less value. I don't care how cheap the player is, I can't see this taking off.


RE: Wrong direction
By hosps on 10/16/2008 12:57:48 PM , Rating: 2
I think the move is actually pretty smart. They are addressing the market that cannot afford the combination of IPod($100+), computer($499+) and internet connection($25+/mo) (and this is for the really cheap end of things).

For $20 plus $15 per album, you have a digital MP3 player and can play music. Yes, it is not as flexible as being able to download and select only the songs you want but this approach is alot simpler for those less inclined to learn or lacking of the money to afford the alternative we take for granted.

I can also see this as a good alternative to give small kids who tend to lose/break things easily.


RE: Wrong direction
By HighWing on 10/16/2008 5:51:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can also see this as a good alternative to give small kids who tend to lose/break things easily.


see now that doesn't quite make sense, because if a kid is prone to loose things.... then wouldn't they also be prone to loose the memory cards that they would need for this player since each album would be on a different memory card?


RE: Wrong direction
By hosps on 10/17/2008 3:11:28 PM , Rating: 2
It's a good point and hopefully there is some form or lock or something to keep the memory cards firmly in place.

I was thinking more from the player itself in that the total cost is not a huge deal if it is lost/broken where as and IPod can hurt the wallet to replace.


RE: Wrong direction
By afkrotch on 10/17/2008 8:16:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They are addressing the market that cannot afford the combination of IPod($100+), computer($499+) and internet connection($25+/mo) (and this is for the really cheap end of things).


There's the market of mp3 player ($20+) and friend/work/etc who has the rest.


RE: Wrong direction
By dragonbif on 10/16/2008 1:22:54 PM , Rating: 2
I like the move, think of it this way when you buy a MP3 player you are stuck with that memory size. They add 5Gb to the player and charge you 100$ more for it. If you can put your own music onto a SD card and use that in your player, laptop, car or whatever I can see the benefit. How much does an IPod 50Gb movie player cost? 300$ or so, I don’t really know. Now what if you could by a 50$ 5Gb video player and just use SD cards to keep things on? I could see movies being put on these some day in full Ultra HD and that would take away from the "scratched disk" problem. Movies, Music, Games, Software could all be put on these and we would no longer need CD/DVD Rom drives and how is that a step backward? Think of all the power you would save on your laptop if you could watch a DVD move on a SD card and not a spinning disk? Just because you are afraid of change and stuck in the past and just don’t want to let go of your 5inch floppies does not mean it is a bad thing.

Just remember the music industry is not in the business to brake even or to loose money but to make money and a lot of it and that is what keeps the US economy on track. If businesses do not make money then people loose jobs and everyone involved suffers including those with 401K’s for retirements as they are investors. There are a lot of things tied into the music industry and if it falls apart it would be a domino effect all the way down to the guy at Best Buy trying to sell MP3 players and CD’s.


RE: Wrong direction
By acer905 on 10/16/2008 2:02:06 PM , Rating: 2
You do realize that pretty much all players in the sansa line have a microSD card reader... the new ones support SDHC too.


RE: Wrong direction
By Some1ne on 10/16/2008 1:27:48 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, mostly because of how they have chosen to implement their idea. I don't think it will get much traction if the slotMusic cards are sold with only a single album on them.

I do think the idea has potential though. For example, if the slotMusic cards are offered with capacities ranging from 128 MB to 1.0 GB, I could imagine a new kind of music store where instead of going in and picking out individual albums on slotMusic cards for $15 apiece, you could pick out individual songs from the store's entire catalog, and then when you were done the songs you selected would be written onto a slotMusic card of the appropriate capacity.

I could see that being compelling, as it gives consumers the same benefits of online music sales, without requiring them to own or understand any of the hardware or software. The cards would have to be priced at a reasonable level though, like no more than $25 for the 128 MB version, and no more than $100 for a filled 1 GB version.

I could see the technology working (or at least, I could see it not being a total failure) in that kind of a situation. But the way they've decided to approach it seems likely to fail.


RE: Wrong direction
By andylawcc on 10/16/2008 3:47:55 PM , Rating: 2
i concurr. i never seen or heard of slotMusic nor do I see any sensible person would buy this (the player and slotMusic itself). This will be the major fail of 2009


RE: Wrong direction
By bpurkapi on 10/16/2008 10:55:09 PM , Rating: 2
I've been on the internet a long time but this is the first time that I will use OMG. This has to be the largest step backwards in a long time. Slot Media= mini sd card. We already have music available online! This sd card will be lost by most folks due to its small nature, and cannot be played in their car's cd player.


This is great for Sandisk
By TechGuyCalifornia on 10/16/08, Rating: 0
RE: This is great for Sandisk
By johnbuk on 10/16/2008 12:59:14 PM , Rating: 2
Sony has tried selling several proprietary forms of media (the UMD being one of the latest) that didn't ever sell well. I don't see how this will work for Sandisk when it hasn't worked well for Sony.

It's not necessarily the idea that's bad. It's the price.

Proprietary media that can only be played on one device for $15 (or in the case of Sony, often more than that) vs. $15 for a CD that can easily be ripped and played via numerious devices? Give me the CD every time.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By TechGuyCalifornia on 10/16/2008 1:00:21 PM , Rating: 2
True...but we have to get a hold on the pirating...


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By johnbuk on 10/16/2008 1:23:56 PM , Rating: 3
Pirating is not going to go away. Your best bet is still to take away some of the incentive to pirate by lowering your prices.

If you could come out with a media that could not be ripped by using existing means and if you only released new music on that media, then the incentive to pirate it would be there and it would be ripped by someone. Even if it was not actually "ripped", if it can play music it can be copied using other existing means.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By dragonbif on 10/16/2008 1:56:48 PM , Rating: 2
They only way to stop pirating these days is to just make movies, music, games and software free to use no matter what. Don’t be silly thinking that lowering prices is an "incentive" not to get something for free on a torrent. Why pay for something when you can get it for free right? That is how more and more people think these days and that is the reason we are seeing harsher DRM's.
Look at Spore before the game even came out it was posted on a torrent site and in one week was downloaded over half a million times. People say it was because they did not want to deal with the DRM but really the majority of those that downloaded it did not even know about it. The thought that "I am just trying it out" is nothing but BS. If you play something all the way to the end a few times are you really going to go and buy a game you have finished? Also they are looking into charging people with hacking their servers when they take one of these pirated games and getting content off of their servers.
The day is coming when the free internet will not be so free and the crackdown on torrent sites will be harsh. As the economy suffers they are going to look for ways keep money coming in no matter “who” is made president.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By johnbuk on 10/16/2008 2:06:42 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not meaning to argue that lowering prices would totally stop piracy, but it might curb it some and it would surely help sales.

I know I personally would be a lot more likely to go out and buy 5 CDs at $5 a piece then I am willing to buy one CD at $15 (or often more).

Personally, almost all of the music I get I sample first and then buy what I like. One indie label who has gotten most of my music purchasing money over the last couple of years frequently sends me free MP3s of their new releases and then asks me to buy them if I like them. I haven't bought ever single thing they've sent me for free first, but I've bought more than I would have ever bought if I hadn't heard them first. Maybe I'm the only one who does that though and everyone else just want stuff for free (that particular label also only charges $10 or less for CDs and I've never placed an order without getting at least a couple of things thrown in for free).


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By munky on 10/16/2008 2:21:24 PM , Rating: 2
Lowering the prices would also cut back on pirating, it doesn't have to be free no matter what. Unlike with the over-priced and over-rated itunes, I can legally download the music I want at just 10c a song, and it's more convenient than hunting for what I want via file sharing. Sandisk and the music industry may want people to believe they're bringing something useful to the consumer by making the device with no PC interface, but in reality they're just locking in the people dumb enough to buy their BS into a system which doesn'r offer much more flexibility than a 20-year old Walkman.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By afkrotch on 10/17/2008 8:19:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Pirating is not going to go away. Your best bet is still to take away some of the incentive to pirate by lowering your prices.


Or do what they are doing now. Sue the hell out of everyone. While most, if not all, of us disagree with this tactic, it has actually cut down on piracy.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By hosps on 10/16/2008 1:16:58 PM , Rating: 2
The key difference between this and what Sony did is that the MicroSD memory is already an accepted standard and the licensing costs are relatively low. The music will play on any MicroSD capable device (assuming the device can play MP3s) which means you could plug the MicroSD card into your cell phone and listen to music since the tracks are not DRMed.

Sony tried to force their UMD standard along with license fees which made it unreasonable for anybody else to want to use it.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By johnbuk on 10/16/2008 1:29:57 PM , Rating: 2
I assumed they were tying some form of DRM to the player. If the MicroSDs can be played on other devices, then the news should be about record companies releasing music on MicroSDs and not this particular player which (if there is not player specific DRM) doesn't do anything that a myriad of other players can't already do. .


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By johnbuk on 10/16/2008 1:35:09 PM , Rating: 2
And I see off to the right that their is another article here about "SlotMusic" and the fact that it won't contain DRM. Missed that article before and it kills my whole discussion about piracy and DRM.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By hosps on 10/16/2008 1:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
Sandisk made the announcement a few weeks back and from what I remember, the tracks are suppose to be MP3 at 256KB bitrates with no DRM attached. Each MicroSD card is 1GB in size and will contain other information such as Album art, lyrics and whatever else they decide to include. The cards are rewriteable so you can add more songs or do whatever you like to them.
http://techland.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/09/22/s...


By onelittleindian on 10/16/2008 3:03:10 PM , Rating: 2
The difference here is this isn't a "proprietary" format.

I still don't know that it will take off, but it has a hella lot better chance than any of Sony's music formats.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By strikeback03 on 10/16/2008 1:14:35 PM , Rating: 2
Except this physical format can be inserted into a computer, so if someone wants the tracks off it they will be able to get them.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By AntiM on 10/16/2008 3:28:52 PM , Rating: 2
This could be the beginning of a format that will only be playable on a particular device. A device that is not able to interface with a PC . I don't see this as a good thing for anybody, except for the record labels. What if a law was enacted that stated that ALL music had to be distributed in such a format. Don't laugh, considering the kind of pull the recording industry has in congress, it isn't all that farfetched. This thing might sound like a gimmik that will soon go away, but don't be so sure. There could be more to this than we might think.
Plus, how good could the sound quality be on such a cheap device?


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By hosps on 10/16/2008 3:59:48 PM , Rating: 2
Songs are not DRMed which means they are not tied to any one device. If you want to attach to a PC, just get a USB card reader and plug the MicroSD device in. You can add/remove new songs as you wish. If I had to wager, the sound quality will be the same as their current line of devices which is comperable (if not a little better) than the IPods.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By mindless1 on 10/16/2008 11:56:50 PM , Rating: 2
It is not reasonable to wager that an especially stripped down player meant to be cheap, can be expected to have as good a sound quality as their more expensive players. For one, the chipset it uses will probably be different since it can't even do FM or radio. With each of their other players there was a difference in audio quality when they changed chipsets, even when they went to a different chipset in the same model, just different revision of some like the e200 series.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By hosps on 10/17/2008 3:09:23 PM , Rating: 2
From a manufacturing perspective, I would think the design would be very close to their existing designs minus all the thrills to keep costs down. The actual player/codec chip is probably the same, the supporting hardware (i.e. FM tuner, LCD controls, integrated flash, Li-Ion/Rechargable battery etc...) will get scrapped. The C250 can currently be had for $25 so cutting these options but using the same chip is not out of the realm of possibility.

If they, Sandisk and the Music industry, want this to succeed and be an alternative to an IPod, the audio quality will have to be comperable to it. Otherwise it will be viewed as completely inferior from the start.


RE: This is great for Sandisk
By mindless1 on 10/18/2008 11:42:06 AM , Rating: 2
No, false logic. Different case design obviously, different PCB obviously so all the circuits had to be laid out still so there's really no point in even using the same higher cost IC when it's features would go unused.

The all-in-one player IC is not likely to be the same. While it could use the same IC as C250, that's not the same as on their other players, and remember C250 was not that close to the same price when it debuted, eventually this slotmust player may be $10 or less.

There's no logic in saying audio quality will have to be comperable, that's like saying all CD players' sound would have to be comperable which obviously isn't true.


By Cypherdude1 on 10/16/2008 5:30:58 PM , Rating: 2
The Apple iPod is usually the only video-MP3 player mentioned. There are at least a DOZEN rivals on the market. There are so many inexpensive video-MP3 and sound-MP3 players on the market now, it's dizzying. Many of these models already have a microSD slot built in.

There's Zune, Creative Labs, SanDisk, Cowon, Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, I can't even name them all.

Then you have the second tier companies such as:
Coby: www.cobyusa.com
Pixxo: www.pcusacorp.com
Kaser: www.kasercorp.com
SLY Electronics: www.slyelectronics.com
iVO-Sound: www.bayconsumer.com

iVO has an 8 GB 3" screen video-MP3 player and Kaser has a 4 GB 2.8" touchscreen video-MP3 player.

The second tier companies are creating new models so fast, they can't even keep up with them on their own websites. Nearly all of the second tier models can be bought for $25-$100 on sale. If you don't mind a S/N ratio of 70 dB's and a frequency response of 200Hz-17KHz, you can buy any of the second tier models.

Of course, there are probably exceptions to the second tier models. There are probably models which have a better 85 db S/N ratio and a 40Hz-20KHz response. Call them and ask. Challenge them if they claim the better specs though.

Otherwise, just buy any of the first tier models. Regardless of what you purchase, make sure you purchase a $30 JVC HA-FX66 earbud set and you'll be fine. You might want to keep the above URL's for your future reference.

Steve Wozniak is right. The Apple iPod's future isn't looking too good. I cannot understand how they get away with charging $200-300 for some 8GB player. I just purchased a Samsung YP-S3J 4 GB video-MP3 player with a 90 dB S/N and 40Hz-20KHz response for $60 at Fry's! It can play for 25 hours on a single battery charge, something else you should inquire about. There's no way Apple can compete with that.




RE: Most Second Tier video-MP3 Players Include microSD
By MScrip on 10/16/2008 10:04:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I cannot understand how they get away with charging $200-300 for some 8GB player.

Well, the iPod Nano is very thin. It's so thin you can't even feel it in your pocket. Even with a hard case, it's still thinner than other players.

And Apple's other 8GB player, the iPod Touch, has a freakin' 3.5" touch screen and wifi internet capability. The iPod Touch is only $229.

Funny... I don't think Apple has any trouble selling iPods.


By Cypherdude1 on 10/17/2008 11:55:08 PM , Rating: 2
The iPod Touch is only $229. LOL. Well, OK. If you want to spend $229!! on an MP3 player, be my guest. I'm sure some people have that kind of money to waste, err, spend on an MP3 player. While WiFi Internet is a nifty feature, it's not really necessary. For $229, I could buy my Samsung 4 GB and also a JVC Kaboom Box which was on sale at WalMart.COM awhile ago.

BTW, here's an IVO-Sound MP-1050 8GB 3.0" video-MP3 player with µSD slot for $80 at Fry's. Just one of the many choices available now:
http://shop4.frys.com/product/5705652
quote:
The iPod Touch is only $229.


By mindless1 on 10/17/2008 12:10:45 AM , Rating: 2
Actually it's extremely rare to find any player that doesn't go down closer to 40Hz than to 200Hz. Maybe you mean the included headphones, or misunderstood what was being spec'd, but anyone serious about the music won't be using those.


By Cypherdude1 on 10/17/2008 9:15:15 PM , Rating: 2
No, for the second tier players especially the really inexpensive ones, I meant 200Hz. Its manual had specs at 20Hz-20KHz. But believe me, there's no way its response was a complete 20Hz-20KHz (yeah right). At best it was 200Hz-17KHz and its S/N was at best 70 dB. Bear in mind, this was Fry's Electronics (retail store) most inexpensive $35 flash-drive-shaped MP3 player. I returned it for the better Samsung.

The cheaper MP3 player actually did work, but there was a small problem with the "mode" button. Also, it used a AAA battery which it ate through every 10 hours of play. The better 2nd tier models have rechargeable batteries and should have better specs. That's why I say, call them before you buy, ask and challenge them if necessary.
quote:
Actually it's extremely rare to find any player that doesn't go down closer to 40Hz than to 200Hz.


By mindless1 on 10/18/2008 11:37:34 AM , Rating: 2
Regardless of 2nd tier or not, it is not likely someone will come across a player only capable of > 200Hz except for the earbuds. Typical response is closer to 20Hz-20KHz from the player itself and the IC specs also bear that out. I've hooked up several low cost players to a power amp and saw sub 200Hz sound reproduction. S/N from a cheap player is another matter, cheap ones are worse in that regard.

As for AAA battery, I'd rather have a player that gets 10 hours from one. Seriously, what sense is there in a Li-Ion player that has to be thrown away in 3 or 4 years unless you're prone to always dropping it and expect it to be dead already by then? 10 hours is fine when using a common battery so easily sourced. I'm more concerned about items that may run out of power in the same usage session like a laptop.

On the other hand, sure, if you buy something too cheap it's more likely to have problems the same as any other product might.


By Cypherdude1 on 10/18/2008 1:53:16 PM , Rating: 2
I thought about buying a $10 set of 4 rechargeable AAA batteries. Unfortunately, a good charger costs about $35 so the total cost would've been $45 even if I had purchased the set from Amazon with free shipping and no taxes.

Because the inexpensive flash drive MP3 player had such low specs, it wasn't worth it. If you factor in the cost of the rechargeable battery set, $60 for the Samsung YP-S3 isn't so bad. The Samsung can play up to 25 hours on a single charge, perfect for traveling.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to find high quality MP3 players with replaceable batteries. Most now come with the battery permanently integrated. At least, that's my impression. I could be mistaken about the 2nd tier players but I doubt it.

All the player manufacturers should get together and create a single battery ANSI standard which allows endusers to replace their own batteries. This is laughable of course because they'll never do this. They'll make more money when people toss their old players every 3 years and buy a new one. Can you imagine having to toss a $220 32 GB SanDisk Sansa View?!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00126NSVE

You have tested various 2nd tier players? Have you tested any of these brands and what have been your results in terms of freq. response, S/N, and battery time?
Coby: http://www.cobyusa.com
Pixxo: http://www.pcusacorp.com
Kaser: http://www.kasercorp.com
SLY Electronics: http://www.slyelectronics.com
iVO-Sound: http://www.bayconsumer.com

Because not everyone wants to spend $230 on an iPod or disposable Sansa View, AnandTech should write a review comparing and testing many of the better 2nd tier models.
quote:
As for AAA battery, I'd rather have a player that gets 10 hours from one. Seriously, what sense is there in a Li-Ion player that has to be thrown away in 3 or 4 years...


By mindless1 on 10/19/2008 2:30:47 AM , Rating: 2
That's nonsense. The majority of the world uses $8 battery chargers fine. Some geek may tell you that if you use a special charger, swing a chicken around your head and pray towards mecca, you might get 10% more performance. That's 10% on a $1.50 battery, who cares?

Once we dispell that myth, no a higher priced player makes no sense unless the price pays for specific features you need. If it does, by all means buy what you need, but don't let myths cloud reality.

Remember, I USE mine, someone's fear or myth doesn't keep that from happening constantly.


By Cypherdude1 on 10/19/2008 12:50:14 PM , Rating: 2
mindless1,
I have looked at many different models. I have never seen any decent models which use a replaceable standard battery, be it AAA or AA. I do know the older SanDisk e200-e280 line does have special replaceable batteries. I am not familiar enough with the 2nd tier lines to know if they have replaceable batteries or not. I looked over the available rechargers and I never saw any below $22.

Regardless, I have already purchased my $60 Samsung and it fulfills my needs. Unfortunately, I doubt its battery is replaceable. You never answered my question: Did you ever test any of the 2nd tier lines I have listed. If not, that's OK.
quote:
Remember, I USE mine, someone's fear or myth doesn't keep that from happening constantly.


Version 2.0?
By Bender 123 on 10/16/2008 12:10:51 PM , Rating: 5
Maybe for version 2.0, they can make a device with a big memory card inside it, and you can hook it up to a computer to transfer songs back and forth from that card. This way, you could have more than one album at a time, without carrying around a whole bunch of cards. Then you could have a screen that tells you what music you have or are listening to. They can call it an iPod, or a Zune or maybe even a Zen...something that people will remember.

<sarcasm off>




RE: Version 2.0?
By Omega215D on 10/16/2008 12:40:18 PM , Rating: 2
Nah, it has to go well with SanDisk... maybe they should call it a Sansa ;)


RE: Version 2.0?
By on 10/16/2008 5:02:10 PM , Rating: 2
ahahaha


FAIL
By spread on 10/16/2008 1:04:12 PM , Rating: 2
MicroSD. Couldn't they have picked something smaller?

Like the head of a pin.




RE: FAIL
By Cypherdude1 on 10/16/2008 5:09:36 PM , Rating: 2
LOL. Actually, while microSD is the smallest available format, you can now purchase 8 GB sticks (tabs?). Soon, there will be 16 GB tabs available. I assume they chose this format because it is the smallest and therefore the cheapest.
quote:
MicroSD. Couldn't they have picked something smaller?
Like the head of a pin.


RE: FAIL
By mindless1 on 10/17/2008 12:06:30 AM , Rating: 2
Hi, welcome to Earth. Here we call them cards.

PS - It's not the cheapest. Even an entire 8GB USB flash drive costs less now than an 8GB microSD card, and so do full sized SD cards.

I do agree with the prior post, it would've been better to stay with regular SDHC cards since they already have 16GB and 32GB versions (will always allow 2 to 4 times the capacity of microSD) and any ergonomically usable player will already be at least as wide as necessary for a standard SD card slot in it. I have a player that does take SD cards and I've never wished it were smaller than it is.


RE: FAIL
By hosps on 10/17/2008 3:17:15 PM , Rating: 2
I think the main reason they went with MicroSD was to have compatibility with the cellphone market which is primarily MicroSD.


slight variation
By aapocketz on 10/16/2008 7:16:19 PM , Rating: 2
I think if you sold uSD cards with albums on them you could capture some business. I think it would work if you could design players that you plug the uSD card in, and you can add the music to your collection on the player. It would be like a music "booster pack". It would be nice because you cant go to the store and buy a CD and play it on your MP3 player immediately. YOu have lost the impulse buy. There would have to have the hardware support out there though (iPod, car stereos, etc). Of course at that point you may as well just transfer wirelessly.

My problem is I want control and ownership over my music collection and what I am listening to (like a MP3 player) but with the variety and refreshed media without much interaction (like satellite radio). I want that balance. You can simulate it by storage a huge collection (100GB?) for variety, and getting podcasts for new content. However there is no effortless way to get coordinated spontaneous or structured new music on to the mp3 player. Without it even the largest music collection gets stale without considerable user interaction.

I kinda got interested in the Zune feature where you can share your music and people can download it easily just by proximity (same subway car or something) or by walking into a music store or coffee shop or something. However I don't think in practice it really caught on.




RE: slight variation
By MScrip on 10/16/2008 9:53:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It would be nice because you cant go to the store and buy a CD and play it on your MP3 player immediately. YOu have lost the impulse buy.


Why would you go to a store to buy digital files? Why not just download them from the internet? Can't you wait till you're home to impulse buy that song?

I don't understand why anyone would go somewhere to buy bits. Bits can come through the internet, and you think it's a good idea to buy bits on a piece of plastic.

Yeah, it would be cool to buy an album and listen to it immediately. But then you buy another album... then another. Soon, you've got quite a collection of little tiny memory cards. So you copy all those tracks onto your computer, then onto one big memory card. Look at all those bits... which you could have downloaded in the first place.

iTunes and Amazon will let you buy songs over wifi with cell phones... why do you want to buy a bunch of little memory cards again?


Really....
By swizeus on 10/16/2008 7:31:13 PM , Rating: 2
This kind of device just waste the natural resources.....




RE: Really....
By mindless1 on 10/17/2008 12:19:09 AM , Rating: 2
Not to mention how oversized the packaging will have to be to prevent theft. It'll be a big box, maybe a plastic case inside, probably an RFID tag. All the kids will have to put down their Doritos, take a shower, drive to the store (which alone should've been more costly than a 1GB flash card with a few MP3 on it), then drive to work a few extra times to pay for this addt'l overhead in their music listening.

Somebody in a prior post wrote something like "but what if they don't have a computer". What person owns a throwaway MP3 player and pays $15 a pop for flash cards before they even have a computer in an age when used computers multiple times fast enough to merely download songs and play them are being thrown away every day?


Dollar Store Player
By SpaceJumper on 10/16/2008 3:02:38 PM , Rating: 2
Pretty soon, it will be in your nearest dollar stores.




Im a PC
By jahwarrior on 10/16/2008 5:15:51 PM , Rating: 2
It is a stupid idea and it is stupid looking.




Good Idea
By Dozer63 on 10/19/2008 6:16:14 PM , Rating: 2
One thing that it seems everybody is overlooking is that you can load your own sd cards. For the cost of $20 I might get one for the kid.
"In addition to slotMusic cards, this convenient MP3 player can play songs from any microSD card with music encoded as MP3 and WMA (DRM-free only) files. The industry leader in flash memory cards, SanDisk is currently selling microSD cards in a range of capacity with up to an astounding 16GB of capacity. 16GB can hold up to 4,000 MP3 songs2." Fron sandisk websight.




wont catch
By grndbef on 10/19/2008 10:16:31 PM , Rating: 2
who wants 10 songs from one band.. need variety...they had these before in toys r us with one song.....plus they will fall between the seats or get washed...too small..plus how do you package this? ...cd wrap is cheaper...should be able to load ipod at music store




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