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Print 149 comment(s) - last by Cheesew1z69.. on Aug 11 at 3:14 PM

132-page design document details how Galaxy Phones would be better if they imitated small details of the iPhone

In U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California (San Jose/San Francisco) Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930) and Apple, Inc. (AAPL) are presenting their arguments, trying to sway jurors that the other's smartphones and tablets infringed on its intellectual property.

I. Samsung Rips Into Apple's Design Claims

The case began with Samsung largely on the hot seat, with Apple's arguments focusing on its notion that it has "patented" the minimalist smartphone and tablet.  Apple's design patents -- U.S. Design Patent No. D618,677D593,087, and D504,889 -- are simply pictures, with a brief title.  But according to Apple they represent exclusive rights to produce rectangular smartphones and tablets.

Apple’s lawyers grilled Samsung designer Justin Denison over his company’s decision to destroy potential evidence with an automated email deletion system.  They also showed him statements that suggested that Samsung was facing a "crisis in design" and that imitating the iPhone was a solution.  Mr. Denison predictably called those statements hyperbole, designed to motivate Samsung coders, not a focus on "ripping off" the iPhone.

Then it was Apple's turn, with its industrial designer Peter Bressler taking the stand to emphasize the importance of the face shape to the iPhone and iPad patent.  The goal here was to establish a broad definition of what shapes Apple "owned", to try to connect those shapes to the financial success of Apple and its competitors, and finally to snare Samsung in the design net, claiming that Samsung used a forbidden shape -- such as a rectangle with rounded edges.

A court reporter for The Verge quotes Mr. Denison as commenting on the Samsung Galaxy S 4G versus the iPhone 4, "It's my opinion that this phone, the design of this phone would be considered substantially the same."

But as with last week's opening arguments, Samsung scored key victories during its cross-examination, as counsel Charles Verhoeven presented four examples of prior art that predated the iPhone, but bore similar designs.  Predictably, Apple's designer considered this an "improper analysis".

Prior art -- iPhone
The iPhone (right) is shown beside previously patented designs (left, center), which Samsung say establish prior art. [Image Source: The Verge]

Mr. Verhoeven also attacked the importance of a flush glass face and bezel to Apple's overall design.  He also pointed out that the Samsung F700 was held up by Mr. Bressler as a sufficiently different design not to infringe, yet the key design elements were arguably no more different than the iPhone than those of the Galaxy S, implying that the Galaxy S should by Apple's designer's own logic not infringe.

From there Samsung caught Apple's designer in more contradictions.  In a showy moment, its lawyer emphasized the non-reflective matte surface of the tab, seizing on statements by the Apple designer about the reflective back surface.  He approached the designer witness and asked him whether he could see his reflection on the Tab's matte surface.

II. Apple Strikes Back

But on Tuesday Apple struck back convincing the presiding judge, Judge Lucy Koh, to allow a 132-page report from Samsung that could support Apple's claim that Samsung "slavishly copied" its designs.


The market research document delves into virtual every user interface feature and core app on the iPhone, comparing them to a prototype Samsung GUI.  In nearly every case Samsung's design review team finds the iPhone superior via subtle design flourishes.

Many of those flourishes appear to have been included in the final version of the graphical user interface and core apps of the Samsung Galaxy S 4G.

In other words, while Apple has struggled in its claims that Apple copied its physical phone shape/design, Samsung has struggled in terms of the software GUI design, which is covered by other Apple patents and icon trademarks.

Ultimately this could lead the jury to find Samsung guilty of certain trademark infringements, but not guilty of infringement of the design patents, although jury verdicts, of course, have a certain stochastic (unpredictable) character.

Comedian Conan O'Brian offers a snarky analysis of the design dispute.


Things should get particularly interesting as the trial moves to the technology infringement phase, where Samsung will also accuse Apple of intellectual property "theft".

Sources: The Verge, All Things D



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Hung
By gamerk2 on 8/8/2012 2:27:43 PM , Rating: 1
I'm calling this now: Both companies are full of BS, the Jury is going to see that, and they will split.




RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 2:31:17 PM , Rating: 5
You are forgetting, this case is in the Silicon Valley. Apple home turf. The Judge is clearly favoring Apple, and the jurers all live there, so its hometown advantage.

What will happen is Apple will likely win, then Samsung will appeal. The higher level appeals court will get to see all of the evidence Koh stopped Samsung from showing and will at least get a fair trial.


RE: Hung
By JasonMick (blog) on 8/8/2012 2:45:44 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
You are forgetting, this case is in the Silicon Valley. Apple home turf. The Judge is clearly favoring Apple, and the jurers all live there, so its hometown advantage.

What will happen is Apple will likely win, then Samsung will appeal. The higher level appeals court will get to see all of the evidence Koh stopped Samsung from showing and will at least get a fair trial.
One of the jurors already acknowledged that his grandparents held a large amount of Apple stock iirc, and the Judge said that was fine, as he wouldn't DIRECTLY benefit from an Apple victory.

Still would likely influence that juror's views of Apple too.

Hopefully some of the jurors have less ties to Apple. I've only seen a couple of them profiled -- there's more questions than answers, w.r.t. the jury makeup.

It's possible that common sense could lead some locals to side against Apple in the form of a hung jury if they were not directly tied to it via employment, stock, etc.

Clearly Samsung borrowed some things from Apple with past products, but it defies common sense to suggest all of Samsung's current product should be banned, given how different it is from Apple both in design and in user interface.

A hung jury and a thrown out trial (a la Motorola v. Apple in Chicago) would be the most desirable pro-consumer outcome, given that Samsung clearly is no longer copying/imitating Apple, even if it once did to an extent (granted all companies copy/review their competitors to an extent, but in 2007 Apple was the "hottest" player on the market, hence Samsung's efforts were quit focused on it).


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/2012 3:41:58 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
One of the jurors already acknowledged that his grandparents held a large amount of Apple stock iirc, and the Judge said that was fine, as he wouldn't DIRECTLY benefit from an Apple victory.


LOL wow! Honestly, whos dick did she suck to become a judge? That is a clear and obvious conflict of interest and that person should be dismissed from jury duty.

quote:
Clearly Samsung borrowed some things from Apple with past products, but it defies common sense to suggest all of Samsung's current product should be banned, given how different it is from Apple both in design and in user interface.


I think Apple has utterly failed to make an argument that they were "slavishly copied". Certain design elements, fine. But to say the entire product was a bit by bit slavishly copied thing? Not even close.

If Apple somehow wins, it would be the worst decision since OJ Simpson trial. Scary because this judge is nearly as incompetent as the nip they had running that circus.


RE: Hung
By chemist1 on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/8/12, Rating: 0
RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 4:50:24 PM , Rating: 5
I believe he meant the "nip" comment.

Racial slur aside he is right. Judge Ito and Judge Koh are both completely incompetent and help to make a mockary of our judicial system. The good thing is in a patent case, its appeal-able, so Samsung will get their evidence heard in a higher court by a less "hand picked hometown jury". For a murder case, you cant be retried once found innocent, so he's off scott free forever.


RE: Hung
By sigmatau on 8/8/2012 8:28:34 PM , Rating: 2
Oh wow, Reclaimer being racist? I called him out previously, but he claimed he was not. LOL! I guess he got tired of talking about people of African decent as he was labeld a racist over and over, but his true self was expected to come out again.

I feel sad for people like than and his parents.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/12, Rating: 0
RE: Hung
By sigmatau on 8/8/2012 9:20:34 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I'm a god to these people!


I hope you are seeing a doctor for your condition(s).

Later racist.


RE: Hung
By homernoy on 8/8/2012 10:25:09 PM , Rating: 1
I guess that cat's out of the bag. You are a right winger. That explains a lot. Your type scares me more than the left. I am in the middle and take issues one at a time, and based on logic.

Denying the fact you're religious......are you denying you're a Christian?


RE: Hung
By DJ Brandon on 8/9/2012 1:05:02 AM , Rating: 1
Thank You! This comment shows just how remarkabley bright you are. I would love to see some of this so called "logic" in action against real world issues. Friggin Douchebag.

There is nothing more idiotic than those of generalizations. As "middle" as I am that in no way separates my(our) "logic" from that of the right or the left. After all, who knows where your "logic" and/or information may come from. Sadly though with a comment like that I hate to admit I am in the middle with you because I must hope I am not THAT dumb.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/12, Rating: 0
RE: Hung
By DFranch on 8/9/2012 9:32:19 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
I don't know, one day these morons will realize I'm the Howard Stern of Daily Tech and just deal. Now where are my strippers and porn stars...


I'm pretty sure you'd have to leave your parents basement to meet up with the strippers & porn stars.


RE: Hung
By sigmatau on 8/9/2012 10:54:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
There is nothing more idiotic than those of generalizations


Wait... what? You are using this quote???? I just looked around to make sure the world wasn't upside down also as you are the biggest HYPOCRITE to use this quote. You use racist remarks and talk about "generalizations?"

Really?


RE: Hung
By homernoy on 8/8/2012 10:28:52 PM , Rating: 1
Also, my wife is Asian and that term is not acceptable. You must be from Texas or one of the Southern States.


RE: Hung
By leviathan05 on 8/9/2012 8:43:33 AM , Rating: 3
I like how you claim to be in the middle and abhor racist comments and then subsequently make broad generalizations about conservatives and Southerners. What a good head you must have on your shoulders.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 9:27:19 AM , Rating: 1
Right? It's okay to plainly hate entire demographics of people numbering in the millions apparently. But if Reclaimer makes an off-color comment, the knives come out!


RE: Hung
By BillyBatson on 8/9/2012 10:05:59 AM , Rating: 1
Stfu you moronic racist troll.


RE: Hung
By GotThumbs on 8/9/2012 12:32:25 PM , Rating: 2
Please just shut up! While I understand your point...I hardly think it requires banishment.

All you had to do was scold the poster for the use and move on....Your worse than the problem.

I've wasted enough of my time on addressing your rant.

Best wishes on a happy life.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 12:51:52 PM , Rating: 2
Yup.

Methinks though dost protest too much.


RE: Hung
By sigmatau on 8/10/2012 9:38:05 PM , Rating: 1
Go fuck yourself.


RE: Hung
By sigmatau on 8/8/2012 8:41:38 PM , Rating: 2
I actualy had to look it up myself.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By jimbojimbo on 8/8/2012 5:07:13 PM , Rating: 2
Why is it OK to use racist words towards one race but not another? It's the same damn thing!!!


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/12, Rating: 0
RE: Hung
By bigboxes on 8/8/2012 9:51:57 PM , Rating: 2
1. It's racist to use slurs like that. Personally, I have no problem with what you do hanging out with your asian/black/hispanic friends and shooting racial slurs back and forth with each other. On a tech website I'd think you'd be able to remain professional and keep it respectful. It's still racist to use it in an open forum.

2. It's not "whop". It's WOP. The term comes from Ellis Island at the turn of the last century (19th to 20th). It literally meant "Without Papers" and the immigration workers would right WOP on the form for those immigrants that lacked proper documentation. This later turned into a derogatory term for Italian-Americans.


RE: Hung
By JakLee on 8/9/2012 7:46:03 PM , Rating: 2
I thought WOP was White-Other-Prodestant?
Like WASP - White-Anglo-Saxon-Prodestant


RE: Hung
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/9/2012 7:56:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wop is a pejorative racial slur used primarily, but not exclusively, to refer to people from Italy. It may have originated between 1910 and 1915 in the United States. One commonly accepted etymology is that it stands for "without papers" (abbreviated WOP); according to Merriam-Webster its first known use was in 1908.[1] A different theory is that it originates from an Italian dialect term guappo, meaning swagger, derived from the Spanish term guapo, via dialectical French, meaning ruffian or pimp.[2][3] This also has roots in the Latin vappa, meaning wine gone flat.[4] This theory holds that the term was brought to the U.S. by early Italian immigrants from the region of Campania, who named those suspected to belonging to the Guapparia "Guappi", in a similar fashion Sicilian people used the term "Mafiosi".[citation needed] Widely used in Chicago where most immigrants from Campania settled,[citation needed] it was confused by non-Italian people to indicate Italians in general, like the word "paesano". This slur was used by Welsh Assembly Member Alun Cairns on a live broadcast from Radio Cymru on Friday 13 June 2008, when he referred to the Italian Euro 2008 football team as "greasy wops". As a consequence, he resigned from office.[5]


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By sigmatau on 8/8/2012 8:37:22 PM , Rating: 1
I don't think so. Maybe if you have sad friends. If you still are asking the same stupid question about the word "Nigga", you will never, ever get it. Ever hear of a group of people taking a racial slur against them and converting it to something friendly to one another. They pretty much took ownership of the word away from you racists. Don't get so upset that you feel bad using it.

As for your comment about not living in the 1950s. So what? Many people still remember those days and did live in that time.

Every heard of history repeating itself. Take some classes fool!


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By jjmcubed on 8/8/2012 9:05:59 PM , Rating: 2
Personally you have caused me to close more Daily Tech articles/comments than to read. But only by about 100 to 1.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/2012 9:15:38 PM , Rating: 1
Well I can't say I blame you, if I was a Marxist pinko Communist I wouldn't read half my stuff either :)


RE: Hung
By jjmcubed on 8/8/2012 9:30:24 PM , Rating: 2
So insult if I don't agree? Sorry, to burst your bubble, but I'm right down the middle.


RE: Hung
By elleehswon on 8/9/2012 3:33:56 AM , Rating: 2
If you're that butthurt about someone using the term "nip" on the internet, i have some bad news for you.... The internet, as it turns out(i know, i know, this is news to me too), is full of different kinds of people, most of which, will offend you. I, on the other hand, find your stance and responses offensive and I wish you banned too. See what i did there?


RE: Hung
By sigmatau on 8/9/2012 10:59:43 AM , Rating: 2
The only one that is "butthurt" is your friend Reclaimer you are attempting and royaly failing to defend. He has been called out as a racist before and has denied it like a saint. I am just pointing out how much a hypocrite he is.

You should be ashamed of even commenting. What was your point again? Racist defender?


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 11:08:55 AM , Rating: 2
So now anyone who doesn't agree with your silly witch hunt is either a friend of mine, or a secret alternate account of mine? I don't know this guy, he's not my friend. In fact I believe I've argued with him the same as everyone else.

You need to chill with the censorship and pretending to be so mortally offended. It's bad enough you think "Reid is awesome!" yet think you can comment on others judgement.

I'm moving on to bigger and better things. This is just getting absurd now.


RE: Hung
By Meeka on 8/8/2012 9:28:49 PM , Rating: 4
I think people are missing the point. It has got nothing to do with the word itself, but the meaning construed in its use here.

quote:
Scary because this judge is nearly as incompetent as the nip they had running that circus.


Why is it important to highlight the fact that this judge is a "nip"? One could have replaced "nip" with "asian" or "japanese" and it would be perceived as equally racist, simply because there is no logical reason to mention the judge's ethnicity. Why not just say "Scary because this judge is nearly as incompetent and the one [or judge] they had running that circus"? Why not refer to him/her using some equally irrelevant fact such as the "christian" or "AB blood type person" they had running that circus?

I was also not born anywhere near the 1950's, but I can full understand peoples reaction to the comment in question.


RE: Hung
By testerguy on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/8/2012 4:49:38 PM , Rating: 2
He may be scum, but you are just a retard...


RE: Hung
By sigmatau on 8/8/2012 8:39:31 PM , Rating: 2
I'd rather be retarded than have a functioning brain (or maybe not so much) and use it like I'm in 3rd grade forever.


RE: Hung
By homernoy on 8/8/2012 10:46:06 PM , Rating: 2
Nice comeback.......What a jackass.


RE: Hung
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/11/2012 3:14:46 PM , Rating: 2
Truth hurts huh?


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 4:53:29 PM , Rating: 3
"this uninformed and biased Android-fest of a site run by such an amateur blogger."

Yet here you are. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.


RE: Hung
By testerguy on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:00:54 PM , Rating: 2
As usual, you completeley miss the point. Let me word it in a more simple question so you can understand.

If this is an "uninformed and biased Android-fest of a site run by such an amateur blogger." why do you constantly visit it? No-one is making you click here are they?


RE: Hung
By testerguy on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:16:45 PM , Rating: 4
Yes, we are well aware of when you visit. It's only on Apple related articles and only in defense of Apple. A simple click on your ID proves your intentions here at AT/DT. We all know you created your ID for that one purpose. Reclaimer, Jason, and most others here post on any and all types of articles, you post only for Apple and therefore no-one takes you seriously. The thing that really strikes me as odd is you seem to think we are all too stupid to realize why you are here, and continue to post your bias as if you haven't been outed.


RE: Hung
By testerguy on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:33:47 PM , Rating: 3
again you are clueless. You prove nothing with your half thought out arguments. You only think of Apple's half.

I do talk Apple up, just not usually when knocking your crap down. I absolutely acknowledge what a revolutionary product the original iPhone was and how it made every other smartphone maker raise their games. It was an absolute home run product. Apple also does a great job pushing specs. The latest being the high res screen kick they started off. We all benefit from that.

My ONLY problem with Apple is how they operate. OK, so the iPhone was a hit, and now Android has surpassed it. Rather than going back to the drawing board and coming out with better products, they are stagnating on the 5 year old OS and trying to sue to stifle the competition. IF they dont want to up their game, that is fine, but dont stifle others that are at the top of their game making the products most people want.


RE: Hung
By testerguy on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 6:05:31 PM , Rating: 3
Well that was the first impartial thing I have ever seen you post... And I am glad to see it.

I pretty much agree with what you say up to "The '5 year old OS' as you put it, is simply ludicrous, and an example of subjective bias"

Of course its updated yearly, what I mean is that its barely an update. They add a few features and rev up the OS #, but they could easily still be calling it IOS3.x, if not 2.x . It looks exactly the same for 5 years now and isnt looking like IOS 6 will be much of a bump either. Maybe IOS7? we'll have to wait and see.


"Which brings me back to my first point. You say I only think of Apple's half, but actually I don't think of any 'half' - I am impartial. What I do is provide the OTHER half to delusional people who sit on one side or the other and are biased as a result."


Perhaps we are both doing a bit of the same thing. You arguing your half, my arguing mine and we both actually see closer to the middle. I feel the same way when arguing politics with Reclaimer. He is so far to the right, that I come of like a screaming liberal, but I am really more of a moderate. I do like Apples inputs to the industry and I know they make good products... I really hate the lawsuits though. You have to admit they are more than capable of competing. Shit, they sold like 16% of the smartphone and got 40 something % of the revenue, and 70 something % of the profits. That isnt competitive, it's utterly amazing. They really dont need to get ahead by stifling others.


RE: Hung
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/8/2012 6:48:12 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
And by the way, whether you admit it or not, I constantly prove you and Jason either wrong or biased, and despite your denial, impartial observers will at least see your idiocies, even if you don't.
BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH

You are one funny retard...


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 6:55:35 PM , Rating: 2
LOL, ya, maybe just a little glimpse in the mirror might help in this case ;)


RE: Hung
By elleehswon on 8/9/2012 3:37:14 AM , Rating: 2
oh really? find the last post where you had anything positive to say about symbian, rim, palm, android, or WM?


RE: Hung
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/8/2012 6:43:48 PM , Rating: 4
It's because he's a little slow in the head I think...


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/12, Rating: 0
RE: Hung
By testerguy on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/12, Rating: 0
RE: Hung
By testerguy on 8/8/2012 5:29:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you're inferior to me in every way


I think I want to marry this quote. The irony is just... too... delicious ;-)

Instead of tearful unfounded insults such as 'proven idiot', you should focus on actually addressing the points, since that would lessen your credibility a lot less. (Wow, did I just use a double negative, sorry if that confused you). OMG, did I just call you stupid? Maybe I can watch my rating and see if it improves!! Fingers crossed....

As for 'try to be offensive and controversial' I honestly don't know if I've ever seen such tragic keyboard-warrior fail. Not for being so tragic that you even KNOW what your rating is, but for considering yourself such a villain on a small time site like this.

quote:
Well if that's the case I hate to tell you, but you've utterly failed.


While you constantly say this, you also consistently fail to actually disprove any of my points. Talk is cheap.


RE: Hung
By jjmcubed on 8/8/2012 9:09:44 PM , Rating: 2
WTF? Who knew I would agree with a testerguy post???


RE: Hung
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/8/2012 9:52:31 PM , Rating: 2
Who really cares? No one?


RE: Hung
By DJ Brandon on 8/9/2012 1:27:55 AM , Rating: 1
Love how tough people are behind a computer..... "OMG I AM SO MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU.... I CAN INSULT YOU THROUGH A COMPUTER... I'M A REAL TOUGH GUY"

I can smell the insecurity off you from here. Find yourself a woman and get laid. Then maybe you won't be so damn angry :)


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/9/2012 10:52:09 AM , Rating: 3
/giggles (snick snick snick)

I for one appreciate that someone of such superior intellect can take teh time to mingle with us mere average techies at Anandtech/Dailytech and straighten out our mistakes... Now if I can just take a few minutes and pry my iris's from the back of my eye sockets I will be fine. ;)


RE: Hung
By DJ Brandon on 8/10/2012 1:18:02 AM , Rating: 2
I for one appreciate that someone of such superior intellect can take teh time to mingle with us mere average techies at Anandtech/Dailytech and straighten out our mistakes... Now if I can just take a few minutes and pry my iris's from the back of my eye sockets I will be fine. ;)

Apparently, you can't read. I in no way said I was smarter or above average in any way. Never claimed to be. Merely pointing out the fact how some people find it so easy to be Mr Tough Guys through a keyboard. These are the same people who would never dare speak that way to you in person.


RE: Hung
By sigmatau on 8/9/2012 11:02:44 AM , Rating: 2
LOL! The only one angry is you, Reclaimer, and all the racists. Good try!


RE: Hung
By JasonMick (blog) on 8/8/2012 5:52:43 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I recall Edmund Burke's famous quote about good men doing nothing. In posting this, I've decided to do something. And you should do something as well.
I hate racism, but I'm with Jello Biafra, I prefer education over censorship.

Reclaimer's use of that term was childish and stupid -- but he is generally a regular commenter who respects other people on the site. I hope he's not actually a racist and just got carried away in bad judgement.

That said, it's his loss if he uses such foul language -- if he keeps spouting uneducated bigoted hate terms to represent his opinion people won't take him seriously and will downvote him. In fact I encourage that treatment of any user who behaves in a hateful manner to their fellow readers.

No offense Reclaimer...


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/2012 6:10:01 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm I thought it was funny and trollicious! :(

quote:
No offense Reclaimer...


<3


RE: Hung
By jjmcubed on 8/8/2012 9:25:06 PM , Rating: 2
Wow Jason, you don't read all of reclaimer's posts do you? If you do, and approve??? I have limited my visits to this site because of the blatant insults lately. My impression was the posts that are insulting are just not read by the Daily tech staff. If you are approving of them, no problem just let me know so I don't have to visit Daily tech anymore.


RE: Hung
By DJ Brandon on 8/9/2012 1:38:11 AM , Rating: 1
Disappointing to see a writer of this site comment in such a matter. You should not be egging on these types of comments on either side. Issues are being losts and insults are being the main topic of discussion on a TECH BLOG.

I would think one would prefer to remove such comments and encourage educated responses and not a bunch of kids bickering. I am all for freedom of speech, but on an educational site to see what is being said is ridiculous.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 1:48:43 AM , Rating: 2
Did you just call DT an "educational site"? HAHA :)

quote:
I would think one would prefer to remove such comments


Censorship is bad. That's why we have a rating system here.


RE: Hung
By DJ Brandon on 8/9/2012 1:52:31 AM , Rating: 1
LOL! OK Fair point.

I hate to see censorship. I agree with the rating system. However, seeing what half these people did with twisting your words into something else is ridiculous. Seeing how far it got is even more ridiculous. Completely pointless on this type of site.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 2:16:58 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
However, seeing what half these people did with twisting your words into something else is ridiculous.


Well I can't argue with that. But hey, what are you gonna do? They're just a bit misguided and have kneejerk reactions to silly stuff.

But that's what it means to be a controversial celebrity, ya know? You're under the microscope, and everything you do and say is magnified 20x.

(now let's wait and see how many more fools don't get tongue in cheek humor)


RE: Hung
By BillyBatson on 8/9/2012 10:18:40 AM , Rating: 1
WHO RESPECTS OTHER PEOPLE ON THE SITE?!?!???
Are you sure you are reading the same posts as the rest of us?!?!? He talks shit, had a narrow minded pigheaded view, he curses, puts people down, laughs at other peoples thoughts/arguments, and on top of it all he is cleart racist.
I for one vote for a ban!!!!!!! I know dailytech has moved away from Anandtech (such a shame) but his kind would have earned him at least a month ban on Anand. Yet here, you falsely praise him.

Allowing people like him to post him, the general negatively in a lot of people's posts, the general lack of detail and well written articles, have all contributted me to start spending less time here at dailytech and more time on a lot more professional sites. Now someone is racist and you praise him? That's te nail in the coffin for me, I'll be sure to let others know DT is a place of racial ignorance.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 10:42:04 AM , Rating: 2
Billy, get a life. The only "vote" you get here is the "like, don't like" rating vote. You aren't going to remove someone because you don't like them.

I get that you were bullied a lot and had your lunch money stolen. I'm sorry I remind you of those times. But it will be OKAY man!

Sheesh what a cry baby. Man up for god sakes.


RE: Hung
By BillyBatson on 8/9/12, Rating: 0
RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 11:31:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is the most unprofessional "news" site with absolutely no regulating posts, weak articles, and often articles recycled from other websites.


Yet, here you are.

Oh and great job with all the "blah's" You're making a great case for how much more mature and sensible than me you are...


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/9/2012 11:33:01 AM , Rating: 2
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah"

Well that was a very well thought out argument. I am beginning to see your point, please go on. I'd really love to hear your thoughts on yadda yadda and fershizzle my nizzle


RE: Hung
By BillyBatson on 8/9/2012 11:40:51 AM , Rating: 1
It meant to be an argument? Or pointing out how reclaimed sounds? And now you apparently lol.
So you are both racists? Nice. Strength in numbers guys strength in numbers.
LOL
Both so pathetic :) keep going try to defend your racism it's hilarious as fuck. We can curse now right? Since everything else is ok here on dt.


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/9/2012 12:31:54 PM , Rating: 2
Dood, you are clueless. I am the furthest thing from a racist you will ever meet. I absolutely hate racism, I have had my ass beaten 1/2 to death by a group of skinheads because of it. I am fully aware that we are all from Africa and the true reason for our different skin color is about vitamin D and darker skin is just protection from the UV light that kills it in our bodies. As some of us left Africa, we needed more vitey D and our skin lightened to get it. I believe in other posts I have already mentioned my Asian wife, 1/2 Asian daughter and Black godparents. I just wasnt raised to think that way. It's OK to talk and joke about our differences, they are really minor. If we cant laugh at ourselves, what is left?

You need to stop being such a ninny "he said a bad word, he said a bad word" . Really, relax man.


RE: Hung
By BillyBatson on 8/9/2012 10:00:24 AM , Rating: 1
I AGREE!!!!!! His trolling and shit talking is bad enough but now racial comments! T
THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN BANNED A LONG TIME AGO DAILYTECH!
I've taken a screen shot, it will be passed around the Internet otherwise to show what an unwelcomed place dt has become.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 10:07:24 AM , Rating: 2
LOL another one. I notice that the same idiots who have a personal problem with me because they can't stand being reminded how wrong they are all of the time, are the ones making a big stink and pretending they are so offended. hahaah, it's too funny! The false indignation and feigned outrage (typical leftist methods).

quote:
I've taken a screen shot, it will be passed around the Internet otherwise to show what an unwelcomed place dt has become.


Yeah you go do that buddy, free publicity and it shows what a no-life'r you are.


RE: Hung
By BillyBatson on 8/9/2012 10:32:37 AM , Rating: 2
whatever you say because nothing you say is true or could hurt me. I've seen you wrong many many MANY times. I have seen you show others very little respect, have used derogatory terms before, constant trolling, always thinking you are right, and now racist on top of it?
You hoping I have no life doesn't make it so. Just like you now saying you aren't racist doesn't make it slow.

DAILYECH: RECLAIMER77 has to go.
And that's just 1 vote. Who else is in? I bet a lot more than any of us think.


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 10:36:05 AM , Rating: 2
Of course I'm not racist. I clearly hate everyone equally.

Nice speech Billy, here's your Academy Award!

LOL what a joke.


RE: Hung
By theapparition on 8/10/2012 12:01:07 PM , Rating: 2
I'm reminded of the quote:

Free speech doesn't exist to protect opinions you agree with, it's to protect the ones you don't.

Or something like that ;)

With that said, there is nothing illegal about "being a racist". Racist means that you are making a distinction between races, not necessarily espousing hate. You can't watch a news report without a racist comment, nor watch a sports special talking about first black athlete to do this, or first Chinese athlete to do this. Several racist organizations exist today and have large memberships, like the KKK and NAACP (although their charters are certainly different, both are legal and protected).

The difference comes in when we start talking about hate and violence toward another group, just based on the way they look, what genitals they have, and who they like to sleep with or pray towards. This is where free speech gets tested. How far can you go without going over some moral/social boundary, let alone constitutionally protected legal one? Dangerous waters.

Reclaimer's comment was sophomoric. We know that, and even he does. But it wasn't hateful.

Personally, I think we all get too worked up over silly words. If someone calls me a "cracker" instead of a no good Caucasian, does it change the intent. Derogatory comments are just that, and the actual word shouldn't influence that. Yet if I were to use the "N" word describing an African American murderer who raped and killed an entire family, the media would have you think I committed a more heinous crime.

And while the Constitution protects his free speech right, DT is a private organization that can do what it wants. But all this ban talk is stupid as well.


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/9/2012 11:01:38 AM , Rating: 2
"DAILYECH: RECLAIMER77 has to go. And that's just 1 vote. Who else is in? I bet a lot more than any of us think."

I vote NO and that we ban you for suggesting anyone else be banned.

It has to be alright to talk about race and use slurs in a certain manor. I am 1/2 WOP and 1/4 kraut and 1/4 appalachian nazi, or you can just call me honkey. My best friend on Earth is Cambodian, I call him "gook" on a regular basis. It's OK to use terms like that amongst friends. We have to be able to take it with a little bit of humor and laugh at ourselves because we all know our differences are really very minor. In the case above, the redneck was pointing out 2 REALLY bad judges, it was hardly a comment on any race of people.

Relax man.


RE: Hung
By BillyBatson on 8/9/12, Rating: 0
RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 11:38:57 AM , Rating: 2
This is a very revealing, and alarming, example of the dangers of "group think" mentalities. You're forcing everyone into extremely polarized segments in order to make enemies.

http://www.acatoday.org/content_css.cfm?CID=4405

Billy, you need help.


RE: Hung
By BillyBatson on 8/9/2012 11:45:11 AM , Rating: 2
And you pissed off a lot of people this morning by showing your racism. Maybe your mad that everyone didn't follow you down your racist hole?


RE: Hung
By Reclaimer77 on 8/9/2012 11:53:24 AM , Rating: 2
Well you can keep saying "racist" all you want, that doesn't make it true.

quote:
And you pissed off a lot of people this morning by showing your racism.


Well if by "a lot" you mean the 4 or so of you idiots trying to make a controversy over nothing, you would be correct. "Coincidentally", the same people who already had a problem with me before hand because they lost every discussion for being the dummies they are.

*yawn*


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/9/2012 11:43:09 AM , Rating: 2
"you don't want to ban someone for being racist"

I think you are missing my point. I dont think that he is racist. Angry? Yes. Crass? Sometimes. Racist? No. Using a slang doesnt make you racist. Now if he came out and said something like "all people of [blank] decent are [insert insult] THAT would be racist.

"you want to ban me for NOT being racist "
Meh, I don't really want to ban you, I was just making a point that you shouldn't call for anyone else to be banned.

"Now stfu and go away _______ <---insert racial slur since according to you it's ok."

Its honkey, and its fine by me. Before you start calling me a racist, you should know that my Filipino wife, 1/2 "flip" daughter, Japanese Aunt, and Black godparents would strongly disagree with you.


RE: Hung
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/9/2012 11:40:14 AM , Rating: 2
NO from me as well...


RE: Hung
By Tony Swash on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By elleehswon on 8/9/2012 3:41:35 AM , Rating: 3
....says the apple zealot.


RE: Hung
By Shadowself on 8/8/2012 4:05:00 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
One of the jurors already acknowledged that his grandparents held a large amount of Apple stock iirc, and the Judge said that was fine, as he wouldn't DIRECTLY benefit from an Apple victory.

Still would likely influence that juror's views of Apple too.

Hopefully some of the jurors have less ties to Apple.


Interesting again for only telling part of the story. You fail to mention that Samsung could have objected to this person being on the jury and did not. Samsung could have tried to get the person not placed onto the jury in the first place "for cause" but did not. Samsung did not even use one if its elective objections to keep him off the jury.

Conversely, Apple did object to a Google employee being on the jury and tried to get the judge to remove him from the pool "for cause". The judge refused. A Google employee? Really? The judge saw absolutely no conflict when Samsung's implementation of Google's Android OS is a core element of the trial. Apple had to use one of its elective objections and make a pre-trial deal with Samsung's lawyers to keep that guy off the jury.

If you look at JUST the judge's actions with regard to the Google employee you'd swear the judge was 100% in Samsung's pocket.

With rulings going in both directions, it is unlikely she's overly biased in either direction.


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 4:32:42 PM , Rating: 2
"Interesting again for only telling part of the story. You fail to mention that Samsung could have objected to this person being on the jury and did not. "

Actually, the jusdge picked them all herself. It was not done the normal process. Right from the start this thing stunk of foul-play in favor of Apple. It will totally be appealed.


RE: Hung
By Tony Swash on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:50:49 PM , Rating: 2
No, I know it will get its day in court, it will just be at the appeal level as this case is whacked - there should never be a jury from the Silicon Valley in a case like this. That alone is unfair. I know this, I spend most of my life in the Silicon Valley. Apple is a local hero there.

But, most importantly it wont change anything. Apple is attempting to stifle the competition that is passing them by... But too late, they already passed. I have my SGS3 and will have a better offering next year with whatever maker is making the best phone with the features I want.


RE: Hung
By Tony Swash on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: Hung
By ShaolinSoccer on 8/8/2012 7:45:43 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Consider how big Apple will be in two years time after it doubles again in size, consider how large a cash pile Apple will have even if it just keeps adding to it at the rate is has done over the last few years and then consider what a serial disrupter such as Apple could do in the next few years with 200 billion dollars in cash and a loyal customer base of nearly a billion users. What an awesome machine Steve Jobs crafted.


Wow. Apple has copied everyone and getting away with it and you sound like a religious zealot. Please don't kill anyone in the name of Apple...


RE: Hung
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/8/2012 7:49:02 PM , Rating: 2
Sound like?


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 7:57:39 PM , Rating: 2
"Android is a failed business model. "

Really? In 2012 its already failed? I guess we wont tell Apple in the 90's not to do any programming, because they are currently not making much money. Dont bother to design any products or work on anything that will bring future revenue, today is all that matters.

Lets see here. In 2 years, Android has gone from zip to 68% of the Market share in Q2 2012. Apple has gone from market leader down to 16%. And you STILL cant see the profit potential? Keep in mind most of that is with Android 2.3 , a product that is really not near as good as IOS. Android 4.1 is better than IOS. Apple sees that and is thinking MAc vs. PC all over again and they are scared... Thus the lawsuits and feign outrage at being copied when they copy themselves even more than others. This time next year Apple will be even less marketshare. Android is at the dawn of a huge growth spurt and Apple is at the end of one.

"Consider how big Apple will be in two years time after it doubles again in size, "

That unprecedented growth was with little competition. Its over as far as growth, this is about the peak for Apple. They will continue to be highly profitable, but not much more than today. Why? The premium carrier subsidies for the privilege of carrying the iPhone wont happen anymore. Sprint is a good example. They paid through the nose for the iPhone, wont break even for 6 years by their estimates. No-one will do that now for a lesser phone than what is available for no subsidy. With other makers making comparable phones, Apple also wont have as much leverage to squeeze lowball prices from its suppliers. They will feel the pinch everywhere. Not that they wont continue the fantastic profit level they have now, it just wont continue to grow much more than it is now.

Apple does have alot of cash. They really need to start putting it into advanced designs and a new OS version that isnt another tiny upgrade like IOS 3 to 6 have been.


RE: Hung
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 4:36:52 PM , Rating: 4
and by the way, where do you get this info, the judge DID take Apple's rejection into account and remove the Google employee.

Right from the start, she was favoring Apple. Add the fact that she isnt allowing several key pieces of evidence.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/apple-v...

Anyhow, it wont matter. Whoever wins it will be appealed and go to a higher court. Simply by the obvious inequalities in the case it will be approved for an appeal.


RE: Hung
By testerguy on 8/8/12, Rating: 0
RE: Hung
By kamiller422 on 8/8/2012 8:20:00 PM , Rating: 2
I figured there was stink surrounding this judge before the trial began.
http://www.dailytech.com/Judge+Blasts+Samsung+for+...

If the reports are correct, she also seems a bit high strung. She needs to switch to decaf or something.


RE: Hung
By jimbojimbo on 8/8/2012 5:10:24 PM , Rating: 2
The sad part is Apple will win but Koh will ban sales of all Samsung devices and every day they're banned is a punishment to the company and the consumers. Then Samsung has to wait for the appeal.
Koh should NOT be able to outright ban sales. This is just absolutely ludicrous!


RE: Hung
By quiksilvr on 8/8/2012 3:18:50 PM , Rating: 2
So the ideal situation would be this:

1) Apple would get nothing and most (if not ALL) of the asinine HARDWARE patents be dismissed.

2) Samsung would also get nothing except a big smack on the head for creating the abomination that is TouchWiz and just use Androids stock (and IMO, much better looking) OEM interface.


RE: Hung
By mondo1234 on 8/8/2012 3:22:48 PM , Rating: 2
This doesnt help Samsungs case either:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Apple+Inventions+A...

There is a copy of the document at:

http://allthingsd.com/20120720/google-claims-popul...


blinders
By Nortel on 8/8/2012 3:52:06 PM , Rating: 2
A 132 page document from Samsung showcasing the iPhones features and how they are better then what Samsung created and Samsung copying every last one of them. The case should be over with this one document, period.




RE: blinders
By sprockkets on 8/8/2012 3:59:37 PM , Rating: 3
Didn't like your company go out of business?


RE: blinders
By Pirks on 8/8/2012 4:04:09 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
A 132 page document from Samsung showcasing the iPhones features and how they are better then what Samsung created
I dunno man, Motoman here said that Apple is a pure religion and its designs are not better and actually worse than those of the competitor's. So you saying now that Samsung indirectly called Motoman a liar?


RE: blinders
By WalksTheWalk on 8/8/2012 4:39:21 PM , Rating: 2
Apple doesn't have a monopoly on UI layout. If Samsung copied their UI layout for some applications it's materially irrelevant since UI layouts shouldn't be patentable to begin with. There are thousands if not millions of applications that copy other applications layouts.

Its only relevance is when Apple's attorneys use lawyer logic and say: "Samsung admits to copying X, therefore they copied X, Y and Z."


RE: blinders
By Rukkian on 8/8/2012 4:39:34 PM , Rating: 2
I agree it should be over, as this is common place at every single successfull business in the world - find out what your opponents are doing and see what they are doing better so you can improve your own and increase your profitability.

If checking out other companies released product was against patent law, then no business would ever get done.

I personally think that some of their first devices copied a little too much, but the current devices from Samsung have greatly surpassed apple in most ways and are not copying at all. I cannot conceive of anybody mistaking my Galaxy Nexus for My Wifes Iphone.


RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/12, Rating: 0
RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 4:44:13 PM , Rating: 3
"A 132 page document from Samsung showcasing the iPhones features and how they are better then what Samsung created and Samsung copying every last one of them. The case should be over with this one document, period."

Not at all. The issue isnt that Samsung copied Apple. All companies do this, in all industries. Apple copied the Psion and built on it and made the Newton. Palm copied Apple and built on it to create the Pilot. Handpring split from Palm and built on the Palm Pilot to create the Treo smartphone (then later re-merged). Apple copied Palm's Treo and built on it (adding a great multitouch UI and OS) to create the iPhone. Google copied the iPhone to create Android. Today, Apple copies Android's features in its latest iPhone. ALL companies do this and always have. Not just tech, but in all industries. Who survives? The company that can build the best product and/or offer the best product for the price. This is called competition and is the base for business on planet Earth and has been since the dawn of civilization . Somehow Apple thinks they are above it all and THAT is what pisses everyone off these days.


RE: blinders
By testerguy on 8/8/12, Rating: -1
RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:09:10 PM , Rating: 3
LOL. So when Apple copies its "taking inspiration" ?

So, I guess that means Apple was "inspired" by Android to copy its notification system, widgets, larger screens, and the whole slew of other things they copied?

A agree, legal patents are a different matter. The patent system is broken, we all agree on that and Apple is manipulating it like a Pro. A broken system doesnt make it right. The fact is, plain and simple Apple copies others tech and gets its panties in a bunch when others copy them. It's bass-ackwards and you know it.



RE: blinders
By testerguy on 8/8/12, Rating: 0
RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:23:09 PM , Rating: 2
I never said Samsung didnt copy. Clearly they did, as all modern smartphone makers did in a way. It's how business is done. You look at your competitors offerings and then attempt to beat it. Apple does it too. All companies do it.


RE: blinders
By testerguy on 8/8/2012 5:33:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You look at your competitors offerings and then attempt to beat it. Apple does it too. All companies do it.


Yep, Apple does this. Attempts to beat it.

Samsung, on the other hand, attempted to COPY it. They even laid out in court how their internal directive has moved from 'Match the iPhone' (during the development of the devices in this court case) to 'beat the iPhone' (during the development of the SG3. The SG3 is an example of Samsung taking inspiration and creating its own device. The SG2 and devices before it, sadly, are just copies.


RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:37:46 PM , Rating: 2
I can at least agree with most of that statement.


RE: blinders
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/2012 6:05:30 PM , Rating: 2
???

I own an SG2, stop drinking the koolaid. It's visibly thinner than an iPhone, larger in length and width with a far bigger screen, and is much lighter. There are no metal accents what so ever, the entire phone is black. There is ONE physical button, and that's the screen sleep/resume button on the side not the face. It's got a big SAMSUNG stamped on the top, you know, in case you still haven't figured it out.

This is why you're a joke here, like Tony and others. Claiming this is a design "copy" is offensively biased and ignorant. You guys need to get over this idea that Apple owns the rights to a rectangular phone with a touch screen and a camera.

http://dailyiphoneblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011...

Please insult your own intelligence and claim these phones are identical.


RE: blinders
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/2012 6:20:29 PM , Rating: 2
Also while the iPhone is consistently flat on all sides, the SG2's back edge is curved as is tapers to the side

http://androidsprint.info/wp-content/plugins/RSSPo...

hmmmm

http://www.alltechnologybuzz.com/wp-content/upload...

Yeah clearly the same phone, right?


RE: blinders
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/8/2012 7:09:35 PM , Rating: 2
TOTALLY the same phone...come on, it's OBVIOUS Samsung slavishly copied it!


RE: blinders
By Reclaimer77 on 8/8/2012 7:13:32 PM , Rating: 2
And as usual, tester furiously challenges someone to "address the issues" and when I do, he disappears and pretends he didn't see my post.

So f'ing mature.


RE: blinders
By Cheesew1z69 on 8/8/2012 7:25:07 PM , Rating: 2
Well, it's because your post is not logical and it's not relevant! lol


RE: blinders
By homernoy on 8/8/2012 11:07:59 PM , Rating: 1
The iPhone ripped off prior art. I can't fucking stand the fact that Apple fans just won't realize this crazy patenting of shapes and motions that already exist, only gives more money to the lawyers.


RE: blinders
By kamiller422 on 8/8/2012 8:35:06 PM , Rating: 2
A phone with a home screen where the applications are laid out in grid form using chiclet icons and across pages is a rip off of Palm and many third party launchers. Ditto on the stationary bar at the bottom. Ripped off third party Palm launchers.

And why is Apple comparing iPhone's home screen with Android application drawer? Android's home screen is nothing like iPhone's, and the application drawer is a selection screen, not a point of entry like iPhone's home screen.


RE: blinders
By kamiller422 on 8/8/2012 8:44:14 PM , Rating: 3
Even Apple's app store was copied from the Palm ecosphere. See PalmGear's StreamLync.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/5026/palmgear-d...


RE: blinders
By mondo1234 on 8/8/2012 5:07:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple copied the Psion


link please....


RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:10:55 PM , Rating: 2
RE: blinders
By testerguy on 8/8/2012 5:21:08 PM , Rating: 2
I can't get over why this company didn't take Apple to court for stealing their product design.

In fairness to you, this product looks extremely similar to the iPhone....

http://mycalcdb.free.fr/galerie/P/psion.ORGANISER_...

.....


RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:26:42 PM , Rating: 2
Like I said... "Apple copied the Psion and built on it and made the Newton. "
Then came the Pilot > Treo > iPhone > Android and now Apple is copying Android. Again, nothing wrong with any of it except the "you scratch my back I'll sue yours" concept from Apple.


RE: blinders
By testerguy on 8/8/2012 5:35:21 PM , Rating: 2
I'm quite happy for you to replace 'iPhone' in my post with 'Newton'.

It's just as radically different to be most obviously not anywhere close to a copy.


RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 5:47:00 PM , Rating: 2
??? What are you smoking?

I said Apple copied the psion and built on the idea and made the newton. YOU change the newton to iPhone and made a sarcastic comment insinuating its too different. Then you go out and find the ugliest possible pic of a psion and post it. Let me post a bunch so you dont lead anyone that has the regrettable task of clicking your false link.

https://www.google.com/search?q=psion+pda+pictures...

Quite a bit different than the one you posted. Yes, and Apple surely was "inspired"


RE: blinders
By mondo1234 on 8/8/2012 6:10:27 PM , Rating: 2
What are you talking about? Psion was clamshell and wasnt shipping a pen based unit when the Newton was introduced. It was hardware keyboard based. The whole interface of the 3c was different.

At the time, there was no way to confuse a Psion with a Newton.

You think that the comparisons between Sammy and Apple are the same as Psion and Newton?

Good Lord....


RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 6:43:29 PM , Rating: 2
What part of built on do you not get. The 1st pda was a Psion. Apple built on it and did the Newton > Pilot > Treo > iphone.

It's really not difficult to follow unless you are purposely trying to avoid admitting that Apple copies as much as anyone.


RE: blinders
By mondo1234 on 8/8/2012 7:46:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What part of built on do you not get


What part of your original statement dont you get? You wrote:

quote:
Apple copied the Psion and built on it and made the Newton.


Your history is off. Sharp Electronics followed Psion into the Organizer market before Apple. At the time the Newton came to market, Psion was shipping the Series 3a (updated to the 3c), it was clamshell, keyboard input, removable dual storage cards and fast. The Newton was never confused with a Psion. The Sharp Wizard was much closer in appearance to the Psion. I dont believe Sharp was ever challenged by Psion in court.


RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/8/2012 9:07:27 PM , Rating: 2
Apple copies, that is hte point. It takes ideas and builds off of them like all companies do. They saw other organizers on the market and took the idea and copied it. That is the point. Did they copy directly from the Psion or hte sharp? Dont care, its about hypocracy and Apple is full of it.


RE: blinders
By Penti on 8/8/2012 7:28:51 PM , Rating: 3
GridPad, EO Personal Communicator, Compaq Concerto, Tandy Zoomer (forerunner of the Palm Pilot by the same guy who also worked on the gridpads), IBM ThinkPad 700T, NCR 3125, 3130 are only some touch enabled devices that came out before the Newton. You had Slate design such as HP TC1000 in 2002, TC1100 in 2003 like http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8... with the keyboard not attached that is before the tablet computer design patent by Apple so how does they not look like the forerunner of todays slates and ARM-tablets a rectangle with slight borders today just like before Apple ever thought of it (as a product) and registered it. How could it look any different if they already looked like modern slates before Apple registered their design? You can only protect original and unique features. Stuff others don't already have. Non-x86 slates with LCD-screens capable of browsing the web and has a touch screen at least date back to the 1998 or so release of Cybook. If you want Sony PDA-design just look at the Sony Clie TH55 for something that didn't look like a 1996 Palm Pilot.

For early touch technology/computer see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoXeZTtfUCM :D Back in 1983.

Of course stuff looks the same if you manipulate the pictures so even the size and proportions match up. Which they don't do in reality. Don't show any of the details on top of that. I guess it's too hard to show actual pictures and size in most cases =P They could have chosen to order the same monitors/screens and so on but clearly built their phones on their own technology. You would have ended up with the Meizu M9 if you did that though!
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010...

M9 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UWgxWD2WPcw/TQ-FabAyZkI/...


RE: blinders
By mondo1234 on 8/8/2012 5:11:14 PM , Rating: 2
Psion wasnt shipping pen based at the time. Psion was shipping the 3c when the Newton was announced.


RE: blinders
By sigmatau on 8/8/2012 10:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
Psion had a pda with a keyboard in 1993 or so. Wasn't Palm the first with a non-keyboard screen only device in 1996 or so?


RE: blinders
By retrospooty on 8/9/2012 8:04:10 AM , Rating: 2
I dont know the dates, especially at this hour, but the point is that all companies take existing competing products and add to it to build their next gen products. Apple does this as much, if not more than anyone. For them to be suing on so many fronts for copying what they copied it just ridiculous.


RE: blinders
By sigmatau on 8/9/2012 11:10:51 AM , Rating: 3
I agree. I actualy still have the first Palm PDA that came out at about 1996. Missing the charging dock though.

I own a Galaxy S via my company (that I barely use as my personal phone works much better.) I also owned an iphone 3gs which was around when the Galaxy S came out. They look nothing the same. No one would ever confuse the two.

Maybe Samsung copied some extremely minor details, but this is beyond blatently copying the whole phone. Samsung also had a similar design before the iphone's launch.


It's Market Research
By WalksTheWalk on 8/8/2012 3:55:55 PM , Rating: 2
Basically this document describes research on how Apple's UI is laid out slightly better for certain applications and rotates to landscape and portrait for others. I can see how this market research can be manipulated by lawyers, but it's easy to see this as FUD after looking through it.

Software UI design should not be patentable, period. If it is patentable and enforceable we will have no consistency across software interfaces from application to application and computers would be less usable than they already are.

For this case, Koh seems to be disproportionately allowing and disallowing evidence between Apple and Samsung. Maybe Samsung didn't follow evidentiary rules or something else is happening but it doesn't pass the smell test to me.




the executives speak...
By raabscuttle on 8/8/2012 5:16:17 PM , Rating: 2
"I will make it legal..."




I always knew it....
By solarrocker on 8/9/2012 9:57:50 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
while Apple has struggled in its claims that Apple copied its physical phone shape/design


Apple copies from itself now also....!




way too full of themselves
By hapticz on 8/9/2012 2:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
yep, and Apple created the algebraic proof that rectangles exist only because they thought of them first! What a bunch of hooooey! This is cl.ass.ic wealthy legal bulldozing if ever i have seen. Snowing the public was their first mistake, but trying to reap gains by using these cheap ploys is, by far, the one reason i never buy Apple products. Educators bought into their bait and switch scheme, and forced countless schools to invest heavily, in turn denying competitive factors to really improve students access to other computers. Lets hope the jury has a brain and can 'survive' without their iPod in hand for this debacle.




"There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere." -- Isaac Asimov














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