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Russia looks past ISS, and thinks about a future Russian space station

Russian space officials recently confirmed reports that the Russian Space Agency Roscosmos is looking to create a low-orbit space station that could be used for assistance in manned missions to the moon.

Along with future missions to the moon, the U.S., Russia, China, and Japan have plans for missions to Mars, but the proper infrastructure must first be created.  Roscosmos would like to use the low-orbit station to also launch missions to the Red Planet, but will take it one step at a time, space officials noted.

"We will soon propose to our government a project to construct a low-orbit complex, which could serve as a foundation for the implementation of the Lunar program and later on -- the Mars program," Roscosmos manned space program mission director Alexei Krasnov said.  "These are our intentions, but we are working hard to ensure that these plans get adequate financial and legislative support from the government."

If all goes according to plan, the first module of the Russian space station could be ready by 2020.

The multi-billion International Space Station -- with 15 participating nations -- is expected to be used until 2015 by NASA, with other nations, including Russia, seeking to use the station longer.  The ISS was first started in 1998 and expected to take just five years to complete, but as of July 2008, it was just 76 percent completed, Russia noted.

DailyTech earlier today posted an article mentioning how the ISS may have suffered irreversible damage after rockets necessary to move the ISS cut off instead of gradually shut down.  A full investigation has been launched into the incident, and it's possible years could be knocked off the ISS if damage is bad as some engineers think.

As NASA prepares to retire the current generation of space shuttles, more pressure will be added to the Russian space program to help ferry U.S. astronauts and supplies to the ISS.

Anatoly Perminov, the head of the Russian space agency, said he will be meeting with other ISS partners so a final decision can be made before the end of 2009.  All 15 nations must agree to extend the life of the ISS project until 2020, or it will end in 2015 as scheduled.

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NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By Murloc on 2/3/2009 4:47:24 PM , Rating: 5
looks like NASA is now a state.




RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By tdktank59 on 2/3/2009 4:55:29 PM , Rating: 2
You mean country lol...

Well i have to say im all for extending anything to do with space. The problem is the US has their money ideas set elsewhere. Mainly towards war... (or so it seems)...

Lets hope someone can do what the US can't... Because then the US might realize that we need to put more funding towards science and other stuff


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By masher2 (blog) on 2/3/2009 5:02:54 PM , Rating: 2
> "The problem is the US has their money ideas set elsewhere. Mainly towards war"

I'm not sure why you say that, given US spending on social security, welfare, and other entitlement programs is several times larger than the DoD's entire budget.

But I fully agree we should be spending more on space exploration and technology. If we don't though, perhaps China will allow us to tag along to their lunar colony or a mission to Mars.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By sgw2n5 on 2/3/2009 9:19:25 PM , Rating: 3
Entitlement programs are called "entitlement" programs for a reason. If someone pays social security and medicare taxes their entire working life... yes, they are "entitled" to their money. The government absolutely should be paying these things (besides welfare).

The US spends 2x more on it's military than most of the countries in the world combined. The OP is correct-- the US is far more interested in war/defense than space exploration.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By FITCamaro on 2/3/2009 10:30:28 PM , Rating: 2
Social Security and Welfare were never meant to be in the scope they are today. And the fact is many people who receive their benefits don't pay a dime into them. And sometimes never had. At the very least they've sucked far more out than they ever put in.

I will never see a dime of my Social Security payments. Why should I be "entitled" to pay them?


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By callmeroy on 2/4/2009 9:48:32 AM , Rating: 2
FIT echoes my exact thoughts on this as well...

Hate to say it folks but Social Security and Welfare are a huge jokes, jokes that the folks who honestly and truly need the payments for legitimate reasons are FAR FAR outweighed by the folks who never earned them to begin with and make it a way of life instead of a helping hand to get back on your feet. For crying out loud I know people that smile and laugh when talking about getting their checks and they talk like they earned it w/o ever working a single day in a real job their entire lives...and I'm (or any working american that pays their taxes honestly) aren't suppose to get pissed or offended at that?


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By omgwtf8888 on 2/4/2009 10:34:30 AM , Rating: 3
I agree we have too many non contributing citizens in the US. I believe that the social ladder is broken. I have witnessed numerous people that when incarcerated will tell you they are living better in prison then they did on the streets (3 hots and and a cot). They live large commiting crimes and the only down/up side is prison. People living on welfare/medicaid have better lives then people working at minimum wage jobs.

We have to return to the core value of "you work you get... you don't work.. you don't get".

For instance, I would eliminate food stamps, electronic benefit cards, etc. These are all heavily abused by selling their full value to the local bodega for pennies on the dollar. I would replace these negotiable instruments with boxes of generic food staples. These would be valueless to anyone but would provide sustainance. If the people got jobs and worked they could use their wages to buy choice groceries, and continue to receive their food box. Same with healthcare. Build a strong base of clinical health care for people without. If you work for period of a year then, you get insurance with which you can choose your physician, pharmacy, etc. But to reengineer the social ladder, prison has to made the worst possible level to be at. Prison should be filled with days of hard work and education. No more television, weight lifting and conjugal visits. This would solve prison overcrowding too. Each cell would house multiple inmates as they would only use it for 8 hour sleeping cycles then the next inmate would rotate in. Inmates would be work 8 hours and attend classes for a number of hours. It should be required that any convict obtain a high school diploma and a trade before being released. Not a GED, they should have to obtain all the knowlege needed to get a degree. This would put the person back on the street educated with a career path.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By Reclaimer77 on 2/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By winterspan on 2/4/2009 1:36:29 AM , Rating: 2
Social security and medicare (not welfare) indeed are large costs, but the DoD's budget of ~$500 Billion is way out of line... We can have a powerful military without spending half the world's defense budget.

NASA, the National Science Foundation, the NIH, and others should have a much greater budget, and along with reducing funding to the DoD, all entitlement programs should be organized under one roof and made more efficient...


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By ekv on 2/4/2009 4:55:16 AM , Rating: 2
China's space program is largely thanks to Loral Corp. That and their extensive espionage. We are still dodgin space debris from their anti-sat missile test. Successful test that is. Iran has tested two new missiles and two new torpedoes within the last week. God only knows where Russia's nukes are and where they are pointed. Michael Dell gave Putin a puff-ball question at the economic summit and Putin for all intents and purposes smashed it right back in Dell's face. Putin is former KGB and is seen as the perpetrator for the incursion into Georgia.

The "world" is a dangerous place. In case you hadn't noticed. Capiche?

Congress spent, what, $350 billion a week or two ago. Does anybody know where that money went? What did that money do? I hear that one of the beneficiaries was ACORN to the tune of $400 million. ACORN the organization that perpetrated voter fraud. Why are they receiving "bail-out" funds? or even "stimulus" funds? How much is Congress now planning to spend? And what about all those sincere promises that there'd be absolutely no ear-marks or pork-barrel spending? huh?

I believe Social Security ought to work like it was supposed to or be privatized. Do not let congress raid Social Security money. In fact, don't let them have it in the first place -- don't allow a FICA tax -- since they will mis-spend it. This is simple human nature, that congress will find a way to not spend money like it ought. And do away with the IRS [which, btw, would make Daschle and Geithner happy]. We need a fairer tax system.

More government is not the solution. Less government is. NASA has done a good job, but the US really needs to start having private companies, or public corporations, develop this market. And there is a market. A socialist solution cannot compete since it has no price information, whereas a private company must be efficient to stay alive (and keep customers happy).


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By VaultDweller on 2/4/2009 8:55:55 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Putin is former KGB and is seen as the perpetrator for the incursion into Georgia.


That simple, eh? I always wondered what rocket scientist in Georgia had the thought, "Hey, I bet we can attack a region full of Russian citizens and they won't retaliate!"


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By odessit740 on 2/4/2009 5:41:40 PM , Rating: 2
It is well known that Russia granted citizenship to those people, in a region which is part of Georgia, to create a conflict territory.


By VaultDweller on 2/5/2009 12:26:34 PM , Rating: 2
Citizenship didn't create a conflict territory in South Ossetia - it was already there. South Ossetia was autonomous from Georgia and dependent on Russian aid for survival since it rebelled in 1991. Note the date there - South Ossetia declared independence before Georgia even officially existed as a state apart from the USSR.

But disregarding the motives of Russia and Georgia, forgetting about who's in the right or the wrong... you have to admit it: whoever thought that an invasion of South Ossetia could have any result other than swift and severe Russian retaliation is a moron of the highest magnitude.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By quiksilvr on 2/3/2009 5:29:17 PM , Rating: 2
This doesn't make any sense. NASA plans on retiring its US control on the ISS sometime in the 2010's. Wouldn't it make more sense for Russia (and US) if we just SELL what's our on the ISS to the highest bidder and let Europe, Japan and Russia deal with it?


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By mindless1 on 2/3/2009 6:54:28 PM , Rating: 1
No, to Russia it will be a symbol of their technological capability, and they'll want the research data for their own benefits, and ISS doesn't have any mounts for their laser cannons.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By Army1156 on 2/3/2009 6:32:42 PM , Rating: 5
No, he meant state.
Just because we Americans refer to our "provinces" as "states" doesn't mean that's the only definition.

Why do you think that Barack Obama is our "Head of State", not our "Head of Country"?

(He's Chief of State as well. The two are not the same thing.)


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By FITCamaro on 2/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By winterspan on 2/4/2009 1:40:12 AM , Rating: 1
You are a complete moron.. The stimulus package is a major one-time spending bill for an economy teetering on depression..
You are comparing that to the annual budget of the "Defense" department? Talk about a straw man...

The DOD budget of ~500 Billion USD is absolutely unnecessary and a huge waste of taxpayers dollars. Surely there are all kinds of areas where billions are being wasted through redundancies, contractor fraud and abuse, etc. I hope Obama slashes it by 30% at least and uses that money for education, renewable energy infrastructure, broadband, etc.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By ekv on 2/4/2009 5:12:42 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, I've heard that the stimulus package is a major pork-barrel spending package. I don't think there's any question about it. I don't see how that is going to stimulate the economy, except negatively. Think about it.

From what I've heard the stimulus package is absolutely unnecessary, since bad debts are working their way through the economy [slowly but surely]. When the "crisis" peeked last year we were "teetering on the verge of depression", yet here we are and the credit crunch is easing, slightly, but still.

I hope Obama quits ranting about Wall Street'ers getting bonuses, since clearly that is for rank-and-file workers who have earned that money. He ought to know better. Obama seems to have a socialist agenda by trying to claim that capitalism / the-free-market doesn't work. I think government doesn't work and the Federal Bureaucracy ought to be slashed by 30%. Starting with those congressional pay raises.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By wordsworm on 2/4/2009 12:34:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You mean country lol...


A state refers to a country. "United States" is essentially a bunch of countries that came together to form a new state.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By RoberTx on 2/4/2009 5:39:53 AM , Rating: 2
What the hell are you talking about? Are you sure you are posting on the correct subject? Oh, I get it, you just wanted to hurl an insult at an entire nation. Let me ask you a question, nerd. Do you scratch your butt, pick your nose, and eat your boogers in that order? Just kidding, I'm sure you are a fine, good hearted person.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By geddarkstorm on 2/3/2009 4:55:58 PM , Rating: 2
A welfare state that is.

I kid, I kid.

But this is a smart idea, setting up orbital platforms for launching further out; although I'm not sure how its economical. Unless you could make the fuel up at the station, just lifting fuel with fuel, unless it's a different sort of fuel like for a ion engine, is kinda futile. Albeit, then you don't have to design big, multistage rockets, as your manned rocket would refuel at the station and launch off towards wherever, using a lot less than it would need for the same trip straight from the ground on Earth. I guess maybe there you can reap some savings.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/3/2009 6:07:04 PM , Rating: 2
You could build a larger ship in orbit and move it between Mars and Earth using Ion propulsion. This would be invariably cheaper than attempting to lift a massive interplanetary ship capable of ferrying crews and supplies between the planets.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By grath on 2/3/2009 8:07:05 PM , Rating: 2
Ion may be highly efficient but the tradeoff is that you have very little acceleration to work with. Its great for probes that have years to get to speed through gravity assists, but they still get their escape velocity from the launch system. The duration of a trans-martian injection burn from high Earth orbit on ion propulsion plus the interplanetary voyage would be much longer than could be achieved with chemical propulsion, and the idea is to minimize the amount of time the crew is exposed to the radiation environment. One soultion is to not rendezvous with the vessel until the last gravity assist manuever, or indeed to leave the vessel in a semi-permanent eccentric solar orbit as a shuttle between Earth and Mars, but then youre faced with rendezvous outside planetary orbit with nowhere to abort to, and if you miss the launch window youre completely out of luck for a year or more.

My opinion is that there is no great imperative to send humans to Mars at this time. If there is life there, its not going anywhere, and our probes will probably find it well before a landing could be attempted. The imperative, as I see it, is to put all effort into going back to the Moon and being serious about doing productive things there. That does not mean helium-3 for theoretical fusion designs, it means in-situ resource utilization, processing that lunar dirt, refining the usable materials, and producing something similar to big erector set pieces and LEGO bricks. Give a 6 year old these basic pieces of structure and they will build you anything you want in half an hour, whether it be a spaceship, a moonhouse, or a killer robot. Give a team of engineers a way to make these pieces on a larger scale, and they can probably build 80%+ of a habitable Moon city or a interplanetary vessel, the remainder requiring more complex manufacture or import from Earth.

We seem to be getting in the habit of throwing $700 billion at problems. Thats something like 25 years worth of NASA budget. If we invested anything like that into developing lunar industry we could get it done relatively easily. Then we would be in a position to support further human exploration of the solar system. We need to spend a good decade or two back on the lunar surface before we really set our sights anywhere else.


RE: NASA, Russia, China, Japan
By Pryde on 2/4/2009 4:52:47 AM , Rating: 2
Who said that Ion propulsion should be the only form of propulsion aboard a Interplanetary Spacecraft? Wouldn't it make more sense to use another form of propulsion ( Rocket, Rail gun etc ) to accelerate the ship and then a Ion Engine to maintain speed. Also everyone seems to be forgetting the idea of a Space Elevator, while not possible today more spending in such a technology could bring this concept to us much faster and give a huge edge over other nations.

As for getting to Mars, Everyone wants to get there first. The Moon is just one step on that stairway to Mars and the rest of our galaxy.

If we don't have a strong economy, Then any space exploration is going to suffer. I agree with many DT readers, ~500B DoD budget? This money could be spent a lot better elsewhere.


By BZDTemp on 2/3/2009 5:43:52 PM , Rating: 4
To me Russia is becoming more and more like a banana republic desperately trying to pretend it is a super power.

Damn I'm glad I do not have to live in a country where journalists critical of the party line are killed and peaceful protesters are beaten up and/or taken to jail.

It is sad because there are many great things in Russian culture and history but Putin and his henchmen are destroying it. It's even worse than China!




By Netscorer on 2/3/2009 7:39:42 PM , Rating: 2
Typical view of Russia by someone only watching CNN Headline news


By gevorg on 2/3/2009 9:04:29 PM , Rating: 2
YOU have no clue. Russia sabotaged their own Mir station just to have enough resources to participate in ISS.


By Netscorer on 2/3/2009 10:36:48 PM , Rating: 2
I beg your pardon sir, but I just happen to be Russian, so with all due apologies I do have a clue as you say.


By Reclaimer77 on 2/4/2009 12:44:08 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Typical view of Russia by someone only watching CNN Headline news


Actually CNN is pro Russian, all the way.

You have to go to Fox to get that "typical" view :)


By BZDTemp on 2/4/2009 4:36:17 AM , Rating: 3
So you're saying no critical journalists have been killed?

And that protesters of the regime are left to protest peacefully without harassment? Perhaps you're even saying the protests just the other day was not meet with a brutal response from those in power?

And perhaps you're saying Putin is not using all sorts of tricks to stay in charge?


By Netscorer on 2/4/2009 10:45:38 AM , Rating: 2
No, all these and even more dreadful things happen in Russia. It's just that phrases like this one:
quote:
Damn I'm glad I do not have to live in a country where journalists critical of the party line are killed and peaceful protesters are beaten up and/or taken to jail.

that oversimplify the situation and shovel the entire country to a couple of stereotypical views fed to the public by US mass media propaganda.

Regarding Putin, the least I can say in his defence is that his popularity rating is way higher then the one of our beloved joker Bush. And these ratings actually reflect true feelings of ordinary Russians towards Putin.


By BZDTemp on 2/4/2009 12:21:05 PM , Rating: 2
How can you over simplify members of the press being killed?

And how is it any sort of political opposition is being harassed in all sort of manners. It does not seem very democratic? And how about the strong arm tactics used by Russia or the former members of the Soviet union?

Basically the list of Russia's bully tactics is endless.

Oh, and I highly question Putin is so popular. It is not like there are free elections and people are afraid to openly support the opposition. Face it Russia is like a dictatorship stuck in the cold war.


By BZDTemp on 2/4/2009 12:23:03 PM , Rating: 2
Damn / this place needs an EDIT button.

My former post should of course have read

And how about the strong arm tactics used by Russia ON the former members of the Soviet union?


By Netscorer on 2/4/2009 5:48:03 PM , Rating: 2
Again, as I said - I'm Russian, so I know a bit more then what you can deduce from the mass media. When I say that Putin's popularity is genuine - please take my words for it. Why is simple too: under Putin Russia started to regain it's lost power and many people started to live better. Most of the folks there did not forget that USSR was one of the big powers in the world and they truly believe that Russia's destiny is to be among world leaders, not to suck at the US tit (Brits - I'm looking at you).
Regarding political opposition there's none. Part of this is because Putin's party is squishing any opponent's attempts for a power grab, part is that democratic parties in Russia are, in general, very unpopular (just look what happened to Russia under Yeltsin) and part is that they constantly fight among each other on who's going to lead united democratic front. As I said, it's not a simple answer.
Now, regarding bullying former Soviet satellites. This is another one of the propaganda tactics deployed in the West and spearheaded by US. I don't want to start this conversation is it's going to be a very long one and it will be hard to convince anyone when all they know is one side of the story. If you are really interested, find someone from that part of the world and talk to the people, don't just listen to the headline news from CNN and (even worse) Fox News.


By odessit740 on 2/4/2009 5:38:09 PM , Rating: 2
Hitler's and Stalin's ratings were super high as well, whats your point?

It is a known fact that his rating will be high because there is no alternative.


By Netscorer on 2/4/2009 5:51:20 PM , Rating: 2
So were Roosevelt's and Kennedy's - what's your point?


By odessit740 on 2/4/2009 5:39:56 PM , Rating: 2
You should go watch NTV, oh wait the government took control of that. Maybe RTVi, but you can't watch it because its restricted an international. Go watch Channel 1 and get fed the news straight for the government. Have a nice day in Russia while we here ex-soviet immigrants enjoy America... HAHAHA! lol


By Netscorer on 2/4/2009 5:58:38 PM , Rating: 2
1) I live in US too, so don't think that I'm one of those drones hypnotized by the Putin.

2) all my friends in Russia have satellite TV and watch whatever they want

3) Internet does not stop at the Russia's borders - and there's no suppression of Russian forums and blogs there - people discuss things as they truly are, not as someone wants them to be.

4) press in Russia is also fairly independent - why do you think those journalists are keep getting killed - because they are actually free to write their own views and editors allow them to be published.


Hmmm...
By donttrustme on 2/3/2009 5:48:45 PM , Rating: 2
I think the space programs should be suspended for a while, till US can recover from the financial crisis....(Which of course would take a decade)

Meanwhile, US can tag along Russia and China




RE: Hmmm...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/3/2009 6:17:30 PM , Rating: 2
It's an international financial crisis at this point. Everyone is getting hit to varying degrees.


RE: Hmmm...
By rcc on 2/3/2009 6:39:46 PM , Rating: 2
Personally I think we should suspend the financial crisis until we can recover from the current space exploration crisis.


RE: Hmmm...
By rudy on 2/3/2009 7:25:14 PM , Rating: 2
Space exploration does not have even a minute effect on the economy. If anything the jobs it creates and keeps because they are more stable is a positive effect on the economy. Plus it is investment in the future.


RE: Hmmm...
By BZDTemp on 2/4/2009 8:11:25 AM , Rating: 2
Don't forget Iran :-)


Useless space fact
By dj LiTh on 2/3/2009 5:08:28 PM , Rating: 2
Russia is the only country that brings handguns into space as standard issue to its comonauts. The real kicker is they are pushing for non militarization of space. Thats kind of like a soldier telling an unarmed man to not pick up a weapon (noone likes a fair fight after all).




RE: Useless space fact
By DigitalFreak on 2/3/2009 8:01:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Russia is the only country that brings handguns into space as standard issue to its comonauts.


At least they'll be prepared if the aliens attack.


RE: Useless space fact
By oab on 2/3/2009 10:27:44 PM , Rating: 2
I for one welcome our new alien overlords.


RE: Useless space fact
By nugundam93 on 2/4/2009 7:33:46 AM , Rating: 2
they gotta bring lots of baking soda too to minimize the effects of xenomorph acid blood when they shoot them critters. lol!


By ctodd on 2/3/2009 9:04:34 PM , Rating: 2
"I told you touch nothing, but you a bunch of cowboys!"

Ha, I'm trying to imagine what one would look like and I can't seem to get leaking fuel and people running for their lives of of my head.




By Regs on 2/3/2009 10:43:24 PM , Rating: 3
American components, russian components. Makes no difference they're all made in Tawian!


By ctodd on 2/4/2009 8:23:27 AM , Rating: 2
*CLANK*


Russian Space Station Toolbox
By Fnoob on 2/3/2009 5:01:27 PM , Rating: 2
Will consist only of hammers.




RE: Russian Space Station Toolbox
By Bubbacub on 2/3/2009 5:45:19 PM , Rating: 2
no implements for harvesting crops?


RE: Russian Space Station Toolbox
By Fnoob on 2/4/2009 9:43:07 AM , Rating: 2
Sure, you use the other side of the hammer to pull up potatoes... which are used to make 'ZeroG Vodka'.


In soviet Russia...
By spread on 2/3/2009 5:45:42 PM , Rating: 2
In soviet Russia, space station made from used gulag.




RE: In soviet Russia...
By ThisSpaceForRent on 2/3/2009 6:40:42 PM , Rating: 2
No, no you've got it all wrong.

In Soviet Russia, space stations you!


I hope
By judasmachine on 2/3/2009 5:41:10 PM , Rating: 2
they still let us use their supply ships to the ISS. our crumbling fleet and lack of funding on a replacement won't cut it.




Materials
By Regs on 2/3/2009 10:38:08 PM , Rating: 2
If they're looking for spare parts, look no futhor then the surface of mars!




Russian space station...
By danchen on 2/4/2009 1:59:58 AM , Rating: 2
This story reminds me of the Russian space station in the movie "Armageddon".
Remember how Bruce Willis and gang accidentally blew up the Russian space station ?

I also remember how the Russian astronaut hit the US space shuttle with a spanner and shouted "Work ! you stupid made-in-Taiwan piece of sh*t"...(or something like that. funniest part of the movie...lol)




Conspiracy
By toyotabedzrock on 2/5/2009 5:26:03 PM , Rating: 2
So let me get this right. There are only Russian people on board the ISS right now? And they would be the ones actually firing the rocket engines to change its position. So now right after they damage the ISS they announce they wanna build there own station.




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