Sources: Bloomberg Businessweek , , NPR
quote: Let Europe deal with Europe.
quote: Beyond that, rebels shooting down a plane is not an action taken by Putin.
quote: Ok, Then whats the correct story?
quote: We are not defenders of the free world. We are not the world police. We are not the worldwide defense. We are the United States. How about we shift our focus back to our own problems? We have quite a few to deal with. Let Europe and Asia deal with Putin/Russia. It is not our problem.
quote: I have an idea, how about we wait until a full investigation takes place to find out who did what in the first place?
quote: IMHO, Putin's Russia will eventually implode, in time, as did the USSR.
quote: Uhhh people who know way more than us about this issue has concluded that Russia is guilty of covering up evidence and tampering with the crime scene on an - I quote - "industrial scale".
quote: Given the unbelievable loss of life and misery of the Russian people under the USSR and other Communist leaderships, I take no solace in this fact.
quote: The country is overrun by Nazis and thugs. The govt was installed by a Nazi backed coup that was trained by NATO in Sept 2013 in Poland. They overthrew what was a verified democratically elected president(even Canada observed the election and recognized it). A jerk, but a democratically elected one. Victoria Nuland and the US handpicked the Junta Govt of Kiev. They were not elected. Their resumes are rather disturbing. Not just links to Neo-Nazi organizations but members of. Hell Svoboda is the former Nazi party of Ukraine. Almost literally. Translates to Socialist Nationalist Party of Ukraine. A party whose members(now part of current leadership) called for extermination of ethnic Russians. Not just in the past, but also again recently. Please just look at their resumes or wikipedia pages.Crimea was not invaded. By international agreements and treaties Russia was allowed to have 25000 troops present at any time. Crimea is also home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. Therefore there more than enough forces already present on Crimea.These agreements also stated that if Ukrainian sovereignty was jeopardized Russia could step in to protect the ethnic Russians in Crimea. As they are the vast majority of the population. Crimea held a vote and voted at 90%+ for self determination and to join Russia. It was not annexed or invaded by Putin. There was no combat either. It was the peoples will....The east is another matter. Kiev declared cuts to pensions and support to low income people. It also garnished a portion of the wages of those who are employed to pay for damages in Kiev. To the people of the east this was not just insulting but seen as punishment for voting for Yanukovych. Or for practicing their democratic rights. It wasn't just wages that were cut. Their right to their language and culture was also to be abolished according to Kiev. No more Russian language and no more Russian schools etc. 80% of all the Ukrainian population speaks Russian, and a good 80% of the population of the East itself are ethnic Russian if I recall correctly.There were no Russian troops ordered there by Putin. There are some there on their own will, volunteers. Retired etc. Same with local police. Many militia are former law enforcement too....In the east they sided with protesters and handed over much of their equipment to defend the cities against Kiev. Thus why much of the early firearms were soviet-era AKs and similar. The old stock from police armories. There are videos on youtube available that should show this. I watched it unfold on multiple occasions on live streams.Now we've seen massacre upon massacre at the command of Kiev. Hundreds of civilians murdered and thousands wounded. Children included. Hospitals, orphanages and family homes were common targets of the Kiev sent thugs. Yet you hear nothing of it in Western media or what you do hear is whitewashed lies and propaganda.
quote: The OP called it "rock and a hard place" so to speak. I tend to agree.
quote: The problem with the SA-11 is that it’s difficult to properly identify and track targets, but easy to fire missiles. “The skill comes in knowing what you want to shoot at,” says Cordes. That’s because the SA-11’s radar system shows the same “blip” for all different targets. The operator sees an aircraft’s altitude, air speed, and vector, but not it’s size or type, says Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Airliners broadcast a four-digit transponder known as an IFF code that identifies them as civilian aircraft, and the SA-11 system is capable of picking up that information. But the training that goes into properly identifying aircraft takes months, especially since the window for acquiring and firing on targets is just a few minutes.
quote: So the Buk launchers are like the majority of handheld firearms. It's incredibly easy to launch missiles with it; just press a button, of sorts, and you're done. Figuring out if the stuff you've got locked-on is indeed what you suspect it is, is not.
quote: by the way, in case you conveniently forgot.. the US also took down a Airliner once. An Iranian Airliner and they NEVER apologized(they were still forced to pay compensations).
quote: Just look at Ritualm's post
quote: He invades a sovereign state.
quote: He shoots down a civilian airliner killing everyone on board.
quote: Right or wrong, Putin has made the President of the United States his own personal prison bi*ch...
quote: Who is to say that it wasn't the U.S. that shot down the plane, so we can smear Russia or Ukraine, in order that we would have an urgent, national, nay international "reason" to go in and bring "freedom" to yet another country?
quote: the US does not need to invade.. the NATO forces could. the US only needs to SELL the WEAPONS and TOOLS. its a direct proxy war. Just like they missiled the hell out of Syria and Libya.
quote: As for the last part.. Both France, England and the US bombed the hell out of Syria from their Sea forces. Really? you guys havent seen the news? This happened in 2013!
quote: Nice that you forgot that the original plan for the Ukraine president, was to join NATO. Russia offered a better deal and discarded that idea.
quote: U.S. trade groups say antagonizing Russia will cost Americans jobs.
quote: American and Russia are teetering on the brink of a new Cold War, economically