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Software Romania: Piracy Built This Country
Brandon Hill (Blog) - February 2, 2007 1:55 PM

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153 comment(s) - last by zdarova.. on Feb 18 at 6:41 PM

Romanian President Traian Basescu

We built this country on rock and roll ... and piracy

In the software industry, piracy results in the loss of billions of dollars every year. It is estimated that over 35% of all software installations worldwide are pirated (22% in North America). That number is even higher in China and Vietnam where software piracy is estimated at 90% and 92% respectively.

In 2005, piracy cost the software industry $35 billion USD in lost revenue. Microsoft, which bets heavily on its Windows and Office software, is most often the target of pirates. Microsoft senior attorney Bonnie MacNaughton estimates that more than 33% of all Microsoft software is pirated.

This comes as no surprise to Romanian President Traian Basescu. It is estimated that 70% of the software used in Romania is pirated -- and President Basescu is proud of it.

In a recent joint news conference with Microsoft chairman and founder Bill Gates, Basescu had this to say about piracy; "Piracy helped the young generation discover computers. It set off the development of the IT industry in Romania."

He continued, "It helped Romanians improve their creative capacity in the IT industry, which has become famous around the world ... Ten years ago, it was an investment in Romania's friendship with Microsoft and with Bill Gates."

Not surprisingly, Bill Gates had no comment for Basescu's remarks.

Microsoft has taken many steps to protect Windows Vista from pirates. The company has implemented its so-called Software Protection Program and Windows Volume Activation 2.0 to prevent volume license keys from making their way out into the open.

However, it wasn't long after the announcement of Volume Activation 2.0 that pirates found a way to circumvent it. And just days before the worldwide consumer launch of Windows Vista and Office 2007, pirated copies were sitting on store shelves in China for a few bucks a piece.

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I like..

By ZeeStorm on 2/2/2007 2:48:58 PM , Rating: 4

I like it how they talk about how many millions/billions of dollars are lost from piracy. I think if piracy was stopped, analysts would be quite surprised that they aren't making up for those millions/billions, because people would simply do without. Take for example, if someone pirates 4 different kinds of DVD playing software. If they had to pay, do you really think they would buy all 4? I have my Nero and WinDVD that came with my DVD burner, that's all I need. If someone bought the same as I did, then pirated other players because they allowed better functionality, but no overall gain, they wouldn't pay for it. They'd only pirate since it had more functionality and that it is, essentially, free.

In any case, I will continue enjoy my Nero and WinDVD that came with my DVD burner (even if there are newer versions) because they are free and will choose to use those until FREEWARE outbeats them (which I don't see anytime soon). :)

RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/2007 3:33:13 PM , Rating: 5

I follow a similar method with gaming. I generally consider it more like renting for free though. These days many developers don't even put out demos, or they lack so much of the full game content you have no clue how full game will play out. (actually found demos are much less buggy than full game. Sometimes full is unplayable and patches are not to be found).

I admit it's a poor justification, but 90% of the time I uninstall the game and delete images in less than an hour, other 10% I go buy the full version if I like it. I'm sure someone will get on their high horse and say stealing is stealing (world isn't black/white no match how much you say it is), but I think it is a much more effective delivery process. How many of you have bought a game by looking at the package, taken it home, and wished you had spent the money on socks instead?

When it comes down to it, if you made a good game, you get my money anyways. If you made an awful game, I was stealing it for an hour until I deleted and tossed the coasters.

Judge me if you will, but I think this is a realistic approach.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By knowyourenemy on 2/2/2007 4:22:22 PM , Rating: 2

And logical fallacies jump out just as much.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By knowyourenemy on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By Korvon on 2/2/2007 5:55:30 PM , Rating: 5

Since when is it life and death to have Windows or some game? :P

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RE: I like..

By Rockjock51 on 2/2/2007 11:03:58 PM , Rating: 2

He was referring to the poster above him that said no matter what.. there's no justification, I think.

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RE: I like..

By knowyourenemy on 2/3/2007 12:09:55 PM , Rating: 2

Correct.

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RE: I like..

By PseudoKnight on 2/2/2007 5:06:40 PM , Rating: 2

Oh, really? I can think of many circumstances in which theft (even REAL theft as software piracy is just copying) is justified. The impact to the economy is minimal if not statistically insignificant in comparison.

It's up to each individual to know where they stand and to be honest with themselves. There's a somewhat obscure line you don't want to cross.

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RE: I like..

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/2007 7:35:34 PM , Rating: 2

Stealing is stealing. This so far is the only argument you have given.

By the same token when I ate a small piece of candy (unwrapped) I found on the floor at the grocery store next to a candy bin when I was 6 I was also stealing. Should I have gone to jail, or would you consider this a special case considering my age, and the fact the candy was kinda gross and would have been thrown away anyway?

If you say special case than you are infact saying there may be special cases for all laws considering they shouldn't be infallible. You may carry over that line of reasoning to piracy laws and decide that in very few cases it may be ok after all variables are considered.

If not, then sir, slap me in irons, and I await your decision as my executioner.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By Neotermer on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By maxzilla on 2/5/2007 11:12:46 AM , Rating: 2

I think we are pulling this piracy thing a bit out of context.
wether the corporate world wants to admit it or not, piracy is an essential factor for their existance. It's a simbiosys of 2 systems. like the oracle said in the matrix...one can not exist without the other. Because of piracy, a lot of low salary countries got to learn the products, so they in turn can offer cheap labor to the corporate world to produce these very products that will be pirated again, and the cycle begins again.
Did you guys know that a lot of advanced goverments still relies on black money to maintain their economy? yes criminals buy stuff too!!

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RE: I like..

By Kilim on 2/3/2007 1:03:47 AM , Rating: 3

What is with some of these people using extreme cases to defend their postions? What does a six year old stealing candy have to do with this? You are believing your own hype!

If you have a situation where stealing the software was justified or "not that bad" than give it. Do not give some tale about a six year old stealing candy to use emotion and to pander to your supporters.

Of course nothing is black and white. But......if a person does take a game which is not his, downloads it, burns it, whatever, he/she did steal it. That is what happened, the seriousness of this offense is up to debate. Do not act like the offense is up to debate.

I just wanted to back up pythias. These arguments would not pass muster in a face to face meeting. But then again, what would I be doing right now if not for the entertaining reading!

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RE: I like..

By NullSubroutine on 2/3/2007 9:59:37 AM , Rating: 3

actually both points, as well as yours are really just mute. you cannot steal what does not exist. games and operating systems are merely 1's and 0's that are copied from one source to another. stealing implies ownership, ownership that is transfered by illegal means. it is also implied that the property is no longer available to the owner.

software is always accessible by companies, so technically unless you take that from them (so they can no longer access it at free will) you did not steal it.

in all truth, you also dont own the game when you buy it, so are you stealing it? no, you are not, you are simply in what a lay person calls End User Liscence Agreement. when you dont pay for software you arent stealing, you are merely in contract violation.

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RE: I like..

By masher2

(blog) on 2/3/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By NullSubroutine on 2/4/2007 8:29:51 AM , Rating: 2

oops yes, moot.

software is not a car, if you own a car, only one person can use/drive it. software can be used by anyone anywhere with the copied code.

the only way your car anology would work (ie anything that is tangible property) would be if you had a magic car that can be created by use of a magic 'word'. when the magical 'word' is spoken a new car is created, magically out of thin air. now you lobby lawmakers to create laws that state you own this 'word' and you can have control who says it, where it can be used, how often it is used, and anythign you can really imagine. you also include law that states noone can 'own' your 'word' you simply, for a nonimal fee, allow them to use it.

sounds rediculous? thats because it is, just like ip law.

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RE: I like..

By Tyler 86 on 2/4/2007 9:37:51 AM , Rating: 3

Oh FFS...

"Man, it's not right to pirate."
"Man, it's not wrong to pirate."

It's right and wrong to pirate.
... but software piracy is wrong.

Admission that some piracy in special cases is 'right' has nothing to do with software piracy.

The fact that sofware piracy is "so prevalent," and is logically defended by "pirates," whom also defeat their own efforts at piracy "at their discretion," reflects the strong software market's sadistic yet foolish operating model.

Companies still operating on this model exist because it preys on the unaware, the unprepared, the uneducated - and that is a sizable market.

The current marketing model was designed for launching a product with a small consumer base, limited exchangability, a completely volatile execution environment, and 'prehistoric' infrastructure.

The market has changed since 1986, the operating model needs to change too.
Since software is a completely redistributable, recyclable, modifiable, executing in a safe* environment, and intangible product, now - as opposed to games loaded into from floppy disks directly to a volatile memory environment.

Instead of moving ahead, they are trying to turn back the clock. Current copy protections volitilize the environment as much as possible (some times destroying the game in the process), and attempt to turn the non-volatile hard-drive into a mere buffer (what used to be memory) instead of the non-volatile storage medium just as the CD, that it is. It's f***ing brilliant, if it wasn't f***ing awful.

MMORPGs reflect the newer operation models. Piracy with MMORPGs is MINIMAL.
Their operating model is completely different from other games. They have "wisened up."

*Safe meaning volatile storage (memory) is backed by non-volatile storage (page/swap file on hard drive).

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RE: I like..

By Tyler 86 on 2/4/2007 10:56:21 AM , Rating: 2

Woops, volatilize, not volitilize...

Could someone kindly post some Romanian curse words for our industry taunting pleasure?

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RE: I like..

By bpurkapi on 2/3/2007 4:53:52 AM , Rating: 4

Since we are talking about the virtual realm, which software belongs to, the analogy of murder makes little sense. There are many problems when trying to apply laws that were made for the "real" world to the virtual world. I honestly hope that one day there is a code of law that specifically pertains to the virtual world. There is way to much wiggle room currently, the laws that define theft and copyright were mostly pertaining to cases in which an individual took something that was physically tangible, like an apple. Yet today we talk about people stealing software. Software is not an apple, we are not comparing "apples to apples." Software in the real world is a bunch of zeros, ones, scripts, an executable, dll's, etc. The law acts like you grabbed a copy off the shelf but you didn't, technically speaking you "stole" a clone. And since the clone didn't originally come from you, it was shared with you, are you really stealing? The individual who shares the software is the one who is breaking the license agreement, you on the other hand should not be responsible as you didn't break any laws, the original poster did. The original person to share a program that in a license agreement specifically says the user agrees not to share with others is breaking the law, once you receive the software from this individual it is already compromised, and you therefore are not legally responsible, and are not stealing. As a counter point to what I just said, remember that bittorrent makes it so that even the secondary user is now sharing and thus breaking the agreement.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/3/07, Rating: 0

RE: I like..

By emboss on 2/3/2007 9:23:20 PM , Rating: 3

The *law* doesn't treat it like stealing. It treats it like copyright infringement.

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RE: I like..

By anonymo on 2/5/2007 7:59:47 AM , Rating: 2

If you had bothered to read the article, you would have read where Basescu says

quote:
"Piracy helped the young generation discover computers. It set off the development of the IT industry in Romania."

which for many Bosnians is quite close to a life or death situation.

MS has to realize that computers are the way of the future and more and more these days are our jobs heavily dependent on them. If you own a monopoly on an operating system, then effectively shut out the poor's access to it by overpricing it, you are effectively killing them off. Personally I think it's all part of Darwinism, however that does not detract from it being a life or death situation for the people involved

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RE: I like..

By Brassbullet on 2/7/2007 4:50:36 PM , Rating: 2

What you think are grey shadows are really just a bunch of very tiny black and white dots.

I do not disagree with you that any action can be justified, but if you shall be justified in commiting the crime, so shall you be justified in receiving its punishment.

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RE: I like..

By smitty3268 on 2/2/2007 5:45:53 PM , Rating: 3

As much as the entertainment industry would like to convince everyone otherwise, there is a difference between theft of physical property and theft of intellectual property.

As far as there never being any justification for theft: never say never. If someone was drowning, would you choose not to steal a life preserver to throw to them?

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By smitty3268 on 2/2/2007 6:37:27 PM , Rating: 2

You never said anything about "unless it is a dire necessity" before.

Anyway, there are other analogies where it isn't quite so clear cut - what about Robin Hood? Was he a hero or do you wish the sheriff had caught that thieving rouge?

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By smitty3268 on 2/2/2007 7:23:10 PM , Rating: 2

Sigh...

Actually I never said anything about stealing an apple. That was another poster.

My point is, you said: "Your analogy is false because it is a necessity"

Therefore, I replied: "But it isn't false, because you originally said it was never ok, not never ok unless it is a necessity"

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RE: I like..

By knowyourenemy on 2/3/2007 12:21:53 PM , Rating: 2

"Sigh...

Actually I never said anything about stealing an apple. That was another poster."

Ah, this is getting funny.

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RE: I like..

By smitty3268 on 2/2/2007 5:49:27 PM , Rating: 4

If someone steals a million dollars worth of equipment from a store, and then 1 hour later either returns all the equipment or drops off a suitcase full of cash, is that really as bad as someone who just steals the stuff and never comes back?

What the original poster describes isn't even as bad as this scenario, since the "store" hasn't lost any value at all for the hour he is trying out the game.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

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By smitty3268 on 2/2/2007 6:40:53 PM , Rating: 3

I wouldn't like that. However, I'd like it even less if you never gave it back. And I probably wouldn't mind at all if you clicked a button which magically made a copy of my car and drove off in it. My point was that there are different kinds of theft and that not everything is strictly black and white. There are certain shades called gray in between.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By smitty3268 on 2/2/2007 7:06:09 PM , Rating: 3

The car analogy was yours. So this new one is an object that holds sentimental (but not real) value. Yes, a theft has occurred. I still maintain that if it is returned almost immediately that it is not nearly as significant a theft as if it was stolen and never returned.

All of these analogies are flawed, however. IP is different than physical property, because it is an infinitely and instantly renewable resource that is being stolen. The sole reason this stuff is given value (and thus considered being stolen) is to encourage people/companies to create new IP.

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RE: I like..

By smitty3268 on 2/2/2007 7:20:43 PM , Rating: 2

Going back a car analogy - would you really buy a new car without taking it for a test drive first? In this case, the dealer is saying "No, you can't take a test drive, either buy it or don't." So yes it is stealing, but is taking it for a test drive really that morally reprehensible (considering that no "actual" value is lost by the dealer and it is just a quick test drive you're taking to decide whether it is worth the cost or not)

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By smitty3268 on 2/2/2007 7:57:56 PM , Rating: 2

I never claimed it wasn't stealing - it clearly is as defined by the laws of the United States. I'm just saying it's not exactly the worst thing in the world someone could do... In fact I'd go so far as to say there are lots of legal things you can do that are much worse than this.

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RE: I like..

By Tsuwamono on 2/4/2007 6:23:48 PM , Rating: 3

Pythias.. you truely are an idiot. Face it. you are obviously intellectually out matched here. You contradict yourself with almost every post you make.

BTW i will gladly say i downloaded Halo PC off of The Pirate bay.. but after trying it for 20 minutes i decided to drive to the store to buy it.

I also downloaded a CD by my favourite artist (As I Lay Dying) to see if i liked it. After listening to every song once i went and bought the CD. If i didnt like all the songs and i only liked the Single i would buy the Single.

Just because someone downloads something doesnt mean they are stealing it. I basicly borrowed it from a friend and then once i decided if i liked it i went and bought it.

Your Arguements imply that if you were at a Party you would gouge out your ear drums so you couldnt hear any of the music being played on his stereo so that you wouldnt be "Stealing"

Its like listening to a CD in someone elses car, they are letting you listen to it without you having to buy the CD. You then ask, who is this? they say well its "So and So" and your like wow, i think ill buy their CD. Its the same thing as what i do except my friend happens to be the internet.

Come arrest me if its wrong to listen to music in someone else's car or listen to a song in a car beside me.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

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By Rockjock51 on 2/2/2007 11:16:50 PM , Rating: 2

Gonna have to go ahead and chime in here. Pretty sure we all agree that it is stealing to download games. We should all also agree that if you end up buying the game as a result.. you haven't really stolen anything. The million dollar analogy was grossly exaggerated and in a more realistic analogy, if you stole a 60 dollar pair of shoes and later brought them back in the exact same condition (at most an hour) or returned to pay for them... nothing is going to happen to you. (I work at a Nike store this actually happens more than you think.) Most people think of it as an incentive to make a game worth buying instead of trying to cheat people into buying the game by not releasing a demo and using your name to sell the product.

Justified? Depends on how you look at it. You're going to say no, that much is clear. The fact is though, make a good game and people will buy it. Make a crappy game and people will not.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/3/07, Rating: 0

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By Rockjock51 on 2/3/2007 6:56:48 PM , Rating: 2

Agreed... but over something as petty as 60 dollars what percentage of those thousands of places would continue to press charges if the goods were returned or paid for?

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RE: I like..

By Xavian on 2/3/2007 12:27:02 AM , Rating: 4

Hmm, i have this time and time again. Stealing an item (whereby the ownership of the item illegally transfers to you) is not the same as copying an item.

Piracy == Copyright Infringement
Piracy != Theft/Stealing

A good analogy would be this, theft (to use your own analogy) is stealing a car, you have taken an item which you do not own, the original owner of the car, no longer has the item, thus the ownership has transferred illegally from the original owner, to person who committed the theft.

Piracy is buying a car, then copying it design and then selling (or in the case of the music and software industries, giving) the copied product to other people.

The important distinction is this, when you steal a car, the original owner no longer has the car, the owner has lost it and thus there is a tangible loss. When you perform piracy you buy a car, copy the design and make a car that is cheaper (or free) and sell it to people who would have never brought the original car (because it was too expensive), the car company has still got the car designs, they haven't lost a car, because the car was copied and not stolen.

So in conclusion:

THEFT:
A person, takes a car from its legal owner, the legal owner no longer has the car, the legal owner has suffered a tangible loss and the ownership of the car has transferred illegally to the person who took the car.

PIRACY:
A person buys a car from a dealership, copies the design and then makes cars with the same design and sells them at a cheaper price (or for free), this allows those who cannot afford the original car from the dealership, can at-least buy or take (if given freely) a copied design. These people would not have brought the original car anyways, so there is no perceived loss of profit.

What is going wrong, is the MPAA/RIAA (and whatever anti-piracy software conglomerate) is thinking that everyone that downloaded a free song over the internet, would have paid for it and thus calculate that into their perceived loss of profits. The real truth is, that person would not have brought the song if there was no way to get it freely or cheaply.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/3/2007 7:58:29 AM , Rating: 2

EXCEPT that the car in the analogy represents the WORK THAT WENT INTO CREATING THE CAR. You cant touch or hold electricity, but you can steal it. You cant touch or hold a night's stay in a hotel, but you can still skip out without paying.

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RE: I like..

By masher2

(blog) on 2/3/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By emboss on 2/3/2007 9:37:48 PM , Rating: 2

> > "Stealing an item...is not the same as copying an item."
> "Except that our legal system, as well as basic common sense, say otherwise."

Say what??? The law (for most countries that actually have laws that deal with copyright) considers the two completely seperate.

The way things are going in the US, you'd probably get done over more for copying a piece of software off a friend than actually going into a store and nicking it.

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By Aikouka on 2/2/2007 3:46:41 PM , Rating: 2

I'll admit that I've done that before. It's not like I cannot afford to buy the game or refuse to buy it, it's that I'd rather try before I buy. This is especially true with PC games as you can't go to Blockbuster and rent them, so your only choice is a demo or piracy. It seems a decent amount of games are coming without a demo these days (Rainbow Six Vegas anyone? I think they avoided the demo on this horrid port to avoid deterring purchasers :P). Some games just release the demo so late it's not even funny (that one RPG game did it.. I forget the name now it's been so long).

No one's really trying to say it's right, but it's good to understand that some do it with the concept of stealing while others just want a fair medium to judge the game before they shell out their hard-earned money.

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By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/2007 5:33:15 PM , Rating: 2

Exactly. Not saying it's right, but it's certainly a lot better than just pirating every game under sun and never spending a buck.

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RE: I like..

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/2007 7:54:19 PM , Rating: 2

I also think all gaming software should have a "lan party" clause in their licenses. When it comes down to it a dozen guys aren't going to all own the same games so we have also pirated them for just these parties (~8 hours at a crack).

I have to say I think the gaming companies likely benefited. Often after playing a game a guy will say "this game is sweet, I'm gonna pick it up on way home". The company makes a sale they wouldn't have otherwise.

Doesn't make it right, but I'm not going to go spend $1K to buy everyone a copies of games when they might not show up to next lan party.

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By themadmilkman on 2/3/2007 3:10:57 PM , Rating: 2

Bungie used to do just that, to a limited extent. Every copy of the Marathon games included one (or two? can't remember) serial numbers that would limit the game to the multiplayer maps. Worked great.

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By The Boston Dangler on 2/2/2007 8:33:16 PM , Rating: 2

i think your post would be rated 100 if the scale went that high.

from someone that has all to kind to the studios:
1. these businesses are completely dependant on fleecing artists and customers. buy a cd or movie for full price, then wait a month to see a new and improved version they expect to sell you. How many version of The Fifth Element were released? as one of the older tricks, The Killers' Hot Fuss was released in the US with 2 songs removed from the original UK copy. The same 2 songs were later included in the Hot Fuss Special Edition. just look at the complete discographies of The Beatles and Rolling Stones.

2. "hey mr. store manager, that movie you sold me was terrible. i want my money back." "no."

3. would i buy a painting without seeing it first?

4. if you're super lucky, you can buy it a dozen times. one for the car, one for the gym, one for the kitchen et cetera.

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By rushfan2006 on 2/7/2007 10:05:38 AM , Rating: 2

Well I'm not shocked or amazed anymore about people justifying stealing, and piracy is stealing - let's push all the silly analogies and excuses aside -- it is stealing.

And while I actually do understand where the previous poster is coming from in regards to basically pirating a game for an hour and then deleting it because a lot of games just suck today. He is still stealing, and no the world isn't black and white -- but this isn't a complex issue. This issues IS black and white.

I believe it comes down to a person's core values - their own set of ethics and moral compass. Which in turn has to do with how they were raised or what experiences they have had in life that swayed them one way or the other.

I'm not going to say in my 20 plus years of gaming I've NEVER did what the above poster explained that he does, that would be lying. However, I was immature and I was a teen back then....I never really thought about it much until I got older. So I no longer do that stuff anymore.

That all said....I think I'd appreciate people more for just being honest. If you pirate, I disagree with you and its stealing. Period. End of story. There is no excuse, none...at all. Ever. BUT at least just admit that fact and save your excuses and the melodrama of justifying yourself.

That's about it.

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RE: I like..

By crimson117 on 2/2/2007 4:54:18 PM , Rating: 2

When the time comes that you can create millions of exact copies of jackets, shoes, or loaves of bread for free, then you may start likening unauthorized duplication of software to physical theft and stealing.

Until then, get your facts straight.

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RE: I like..

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: I like..

By Rockjock51 on 2/2/2007 11:20:05 PM , Rating: 2

Neither was the work in creating the bread.

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By Panurge on 2/2/2007 5:34:00 PM , Rating: 2

Much of that post wasn't an attempt to justify piracy, however.

The main point of the post was to point out that the numbers are inflated. If a person pirates a copy of a game, and never had the intention to pay for it (for whatever reason), the money isn't technically lost to the company that made the game.

Regardless of whether this action is right or wrong, the company is only losing money if the person would have purchaed the product if there was no means to get it for free.

Because of this, the numbers quoted are very high, much higher than the amount that would be gained if piracy were able to be removed 100% from the world.

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RE: I like..

By Tsuwamono on 2/4/2007 6:09:25 PM , Rating: 2

Your a retard..

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By jmunjr on 2/2/2007 4:06:52 PM , Rating: 2

He's right. Regardless of whether or not we are thieves, there is no way the numbers are close to accurate because if pirating were impossible the sales figures wouldn't even be 1/4th of the piracy figures...imo.

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RE: I like..

By MarkHark on 2/3/2007 9:46:31 AM , Rating: 2

If I was to make an estimate, I´d have to say closer to 1/10th, at least for games, songs and other non-essential stuff.

If we talk about Windows and MSOffice, however, I think your numbers are pretty close.

Many who now use pirated versions of these softwares would rather pay for them (if they absolutely had to) than face the move to a freeware alternative, such as Linux/OpenOffice. However, these same people would be the ones most likely to refuse upgrading their software every couple years, and I guess they would rather stick to their old versions for a very long time, which in turn would markedly reduce the amount of revenue generated. So, if we think long-term, it might be that my estimate is still closer than yours.

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RE: I like..

By JustYoureAverageGuy on 2/3/2007 10:32:30 AM , Rating: 2

I dont know about that ( people not wantic to switch to Linux/OpenOffice ). A lot of firms would rather send they're employees to a training course and make sure that the people working for them can handle most problems on they're own, then spend a ton of money on Licenses and technical support. The Webhosting firm i work at is Linux Only, and we have been arround for a long time. The only CD we have that actualy has Windows written on it, is used as a coffe cup holder. The basic ideea behind this is "Why pay for a product inferior to what you have ( THIS IS A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE AND IN OUR CASE IT APPLIES )when you can use a far better one for free". Since i have started using Linux, i have found that many people prefer to "Stay honest" by deploying a free OS then pirate an expensive one. The only people i see using windows and being happy with it ( considering all de viruses, mallware, spyware, and any other kind of *ware there is out there ) are those who do not know of the existence of other OS's OR those who have used Windows so much...that they try to see "Windows" in any OS(something about teaching old dogs new tricks)

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RE: I like..

By somerset on 2/8/2007 12:00:37 PM , Rating: 2

very true

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this has been going on for a while

By hellokeith on 2/2/2007 2:42:48 PM , Rating: 5

The sad fact of the matter is that people generally do not place much value to things that they cannot see or hold in their hand. A friend of mine does all kind of house work - electrical, plumbing, drywall, tiling, etc - and he's been stiffed for $1000 several times because the majority of his bill was labor time. Crooked people just don't think someone else' time is worth anything. Hence the problem with software and digital music/video. Since you can't hold digital information in your hand, it obviously isn't worth anything regardless of how much time, effort, and creativity others may have put into developing it.

This is exactly why I stopped repairing computers.. people don't understand why they should pay more than $25, even if I spent 4-6 hours on it, since they can't see what has changed/fixed.

Sadly, a whole generation is growing up with the entitlement mentality, and they are going to have a very hard time when getting out into the working world where time = money.

RE: this has been going on for a while

By lucyfek on 2/2/2007 3:05:41 PM , Rating: 4

the issue here is that if you earn few bucks a month and by some miracle you get a pc, you look have to acquire the rest for free or else you're left with pile of junk. it's always the same unless you earn real money to buy the real pc (not just put together the cheapest possible parts) with OS preinstalled for you (and you have no choice to save on the "free" stuff). it's the software companies lack of flexibility to differentiate price in relation to real incomes of consumers in different countries that leads to mass piracy (tell a romanian to pay 100$ for xp home if he/she won't make this much in a month). i's true that we all tend to see the value of real (phisical) things but disregard the value of ip that you can copy (especially if it is made "priceless" for our incomes).
the real bad thing is that once you get used to free it's hard to start paying when you can afford to buy (if there is a way to make a "free" copy (trust me on this one;)). there is a billion chineese and all the software they use (ok 99.9%) is illegal, but ms won't sell windows for 1$ (per regular/home user) just to start the process and get them used to using (;) legal stuff (and jack up pricess in the future;) - correct if i'm wrong, but i'd rather earn 1bln$ than write off 100bln$ as the cost of piracy (and cry aloud).

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RE: this has been going on for a while

By add on 2/2/2007 3:37:10 PM , Rating: 2

true! Vista costs as much as a whole computer... what the hell?

and yes, There are romanians who work a whole month for $100. I think windows for home use should be cheap. If you use their OS to make money, ok, pay up, if not, pay less.

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RE: this has been going on for a while

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: this has been going on for a while

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/2007 5:43:14 PM , Rating: 2

Three cheers for compasion!

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RE: this has been going on for a while

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/2007 5:49:47 PM , Rating: 3

Wonder how many Romanian kids pirated some software, learned about computers, got a good job, and today pay for their software? Likely more than just a few. Let's damn them to hell anyway for stealing to try and improve their quality of life.

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RE: this has been going on for a while

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: this has been going on for a while

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/2007 6:16:31 PM , Rating: 2

Not a very good argument, considering my example pulls someone's life out of the gutter, and you're just hinting the majority getting something with pretty new blinky lights.

True most pirates do what they do out of pure greed, and I'm not trying to protect them. Not all pirates are like that, you don't seem to have the ability to differentiate this.

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RE: this has been going on for a while

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: 0

RE: this has been going on for a while

By CascadingDarkness on 2/2/2007 6:46:35 PM , Rating: 2

Your analogy isn't quite right though. Considering stealing a car causes people to be hurt directly, where as piracy hurts a company indirectly (loss of profits and such..). While you do make a good point you purposefully use something with a far bigger impact to make it.

I don't remember any programmers not getting to work because someone used their program license without paying.

Again, I agree, overall piracy is bad. I am just trying to point out it isn't all as bad as stealing cars.

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RE: this has been going on for a while

By Pythias on 2/2/07, Rating: -1

RE: this has been going on for a while

By ATC on 2/2/2007 9:44:14 PM , Rating: 3

I've read this thread going back and forth and you don't seem to realise that you're attacking this topic from one dimension. It's repetitive and shows a serious issue with narrow mindedness.

Give that high horse of yours a break, it's tired.

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RE: this has been going on for a while

By ATC on 2/2/2007 9:46:03 PM , Rating: 2

My post w