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Researchers have devised a way to build memory from graphene

Storage in today's computers is based on rotating magnetic platters or flash memory. Both of these mediums work well, provide large amounts of storage and have been around for a while now. Some scientists don’t believe that flash is the future for storage in computers and electronic devices. In fact, the future of storage could be based on something kids use every day at school -- pencil lead or graphite.

A team of researchers at Rice University has found a method of creating a new type of memory from a strip of graphite only 10 atoms thick. Graphite is the basic element in the new type of memory. The scientists describe in a paper published in the online journal Nature Materials a storage device that utilizes the conducting properties of graphene. A large clump of graphene is better known as graphite, something school kids doodle with everyday.

Rice professor James Tour says that graphene memory would increase the amount of storage in a two-dimensional array by about five times. He says that this massive improvement is due to the individual bits being able to be made smaller than 10 nanometers. By comparison, circuitry in your average flash memory chip today is 45nm. Another big benefit of graphene memory is that switches can be controlled by two terminals rather than the three terminals used in flash memory today.

The two-terminal capability is important because it provides the capability to make three-dimensional memory practical since the very thin graphene arrays can be stacked, multiplying the storage capacity of the array with each graphene layer.

Storage arrays using graphene will be mechanical devices at their core and as such, the chips will consume very little power. Much lost power in flash storage comes from leakage; graphene memory will need little power leading to less leakage while keeping data intact. Graphene memory has a massive improvement in on-off power ratio compared to current memory technologies.

Tour said in a statement, "It’s (power savings) huge — a million-to-one. Phase change memory, the other thing the industry is considering, runs at 10-to-1. That means the ‘off’ state holds, say, one-tenth the amount of electrical current than the ‘on’ state."

Tour explains that current tends to leak from an off that is holding a charge. He says, "That means in a 10-by-10 grid, 10 ‘offs’ would leak enough to look like they were ‘on.’ With our method, it would take a million ‘offs’ in a line to look like ‘on'. So this is big. It allows us to make a much larger array.”

Another benefit of graphene as a storage medium is that while it puts off little heat, it is able to operate in a very wide temperature range. The researchers have tested the system to minus 75 to over 200 degrees Celsius.

Performance of graphene-based systems is impressive, the researchers say that the new switches are faster than the lab's testing equipment can measure and they promise long life as well. "We’ve tested it in the lab 20,000 times with no degradation,” said Tour. “Its lifetime is going to be huge, much better than flash memory."

The processes uses graphene deposited on silicon via chemical vapor deposition making for easy construction that can be done in commercial volumes with methods already available says Tour.



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Not quite correct
By masher2 (blog) on 12/19/2008 11:04:09 AM , Rating: 5
> ""It’s (power savings) huge — a million-to-one"

I think you've misunderstood the context here Shane. A high on-off ratio doesn't innately lead to power savings. Rather, it means the difference between both binary values is greater, allowing it to be reliably read under a much higher noise range. That means

Also, I'm not sure from where the statement, "Much lost power in flash storage comes from leakage" derives. Leakage in flash or indeed any non-volatile memory is very low...that's how it retains its state without applied power.




RE: Not quite correct
By bobsmith1492 on 12/19/2008 12:17:45 PM , Rating: 2
Wouldn't it lead to power savings though?

With a better on/off ratio couldn't you charge to a lower voltage while still reading the bit reliably, thus pumping less charge in and out and requiring less power?


RE: Not quite correct
By randomly on 12/19/2008 12:27:59 PM , Rating: 2
You are correct that a high on-off ratio does not insure a low power memory, other factors are also involved. All other factors being equal though it can help reduce power dissipation.

The leakage of the floating gate is very low which is how the flash cell retains it's memory for a long time. However the transistor that the floating gate controls can have sizable current flow even in the off state. It's this leakage current that can contribute to the power dissipation. The floating gate leakage and the transistor leakage are not related.

An operating nonvolatile memory can still have substantial leakage currents (and thus power dissipation) on the chip when the memory read circuits are active.


RE: Not quite correct
By masher2 (blog) on 12/19/2008 12:49:44 PM , Rating: 2
> "The leakage of the floating gate is very low which is how the flash cell retains it's memory for a long time. However the transistor that the floating gate controls can have sizable current flow even in the off state"

True enough, but that doesn't relate to the amount of charge required to hold the state, as the article claims.

Though as I read the original source, I'm included to believe the ratio here is indeed the transistor's switching ratio, rather than the floating gate charge. That would indeed lead to lower power usage.


RE: Not quite correct
By randomly on 12/19/2008 2:41:03 PM , Rating: 2
The confusion in the article comes from improper use of the word 'holds' instead of 'conducts' in the following sentence.
quote:
That means the ‘off’ state holds, say, one-tenth the amount of electrical current than the ‘on’ state.


'Holds' is usually used in conjunction with 'charge', not 'current', which creates the confusion. It should have said a PRAM memory cell conducts one-tenth the current in the off state as it does in the on state.

The higher the current ratio difference between the on and off states allows you more freedom in how you organize your memory array. Instead of 10 cells to a bit line you may be able to put thousands on a bit line. This can give you an advantage in over-all power consumption but other factors come into play such as the conductivity of a memory cell, the loading it creates on a bit line, the voltage swings needed for the technology, support circuitry needed, sense amplifiers, the speed requirements of the memory and so on.

A 1,000,000:1 current ratio between on and off states does not mean 100,000 times less power dissipation compared to a 10:1 current ratio. It may give you almost no improvement.

Note also that they are comparing it to PRAM which isn't even commercially available yet.

Graphene memory certainly seems to have a lot of promise, not least of which is that it's almost impervious to radiation, an essential requirement for laptops in a future world full of Nuclear Reactors.


RE: Not quite correct
By masher2 (blog) on 12/19/2008 2:44:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
> "'Holds' is usually used in conjunction with 'charge', not 'current', which creates the confusion."
Absolutely right...and the article specifically states "charge" further on, which compounds the confusion.

quote:
it's almost impervious to radiation, an essential requirement for laptops in a future world full of Nuclear Reactors.
Whoa, whoa. If you live in a New England or Rocky Mountain state, your own backyard is far more radioactive than anything outside the containment dome of a nuclear reactor.


RE: Not quite correct
By randomly on 12/19/2008 2:56:51 PM , Rating: 2
ok, ok. I was just joking with the nuclear comment... heh. Couldn't resist pushing that button ;-)

I'd classify myself as pragmatically pro-nuclear with some concerns. Although I'd really like to see somebody throw enough money at polywell fusion to either prove or disprove it's viability. It would be nice to sidestep all the stickier nuclear power issues. Tokamak fusion doesn't look like it will ever be economical.

Other than that I don't see any economically viable long term energy sources other than nuclear unless somebody waves a magic wand and solves the energy storage problem.


RE: Not quite correct
By BZDTemp on 12/20/2008 3:13:28 PM , Rating: 2
The answer is blowing in the wind :-)

Plus of course there is solar power, wave power, tidal power, geothermal power... and finally power generated from biogas (not sure it's the right word but the gas coming from waste treatment plants).

I think the combination of improvement if green energy generation and the expanded use of that tech. Plus the energy savings from improved isolation, transport and manufacturing will get us to a situation where oil is something we use for anything but the normal transportation and heating. That way we can keep using it for lubrication, fertilizer and other stuff which is hard to replace.

Nuclear plants have all sorts of problems. The apparent danger is just the immediate one there is the whole waste problem plus it's not like mining uran, making it usable a fuel or for that matter building and running nuclear power plants are without environmental impact!

The only plus with nuclear power I can think of is that soon Israel will have to stop behaving like a school bully (If one nation should know not to put people in camps it's Israel).


RE: Not quite correct
By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2008 3:58:23 AM , Rating: 2
As you well know, nuclear waste was a problem solved decades ago. Even though anti-nuclear fanatics have denied us a dedicated storage facility, nuclear reactors continue to do what they've done for the last half-century -- store their waste on site. The actual amount is trivial: a couple cubic meters a year for the average reactor.

An even simpler solution would be to just drop it in the deep ocean. Compared to the trillions of tons of natural uranium, thorium, radium, and radioactive potassium found naturally in the oceans, we could do this for thousands of years without even measurably raising radiation levels.

An utter nonissue.


RE: Not quite correct
By Shmak on 12/21/2008 1:09:41 PM , Rating: 2
BZD, you seem to have missed this:

quote:
Other than that I don't see any economically viable long term energy sources other than nuclear unless somebody waves a magic wand and solves the energy storage problem.


We have plenty of ways to gather renewable energy as you've mentioned but no viable way to store it. This is actually the major problem. Off topic though, sorry.


graphene nanocrystals
By flipsu5 on 12/19/2008 7:12:53 PM , Rating: 2
The cited paper abstract reads:

quote:
Transistors are the basis for electronic switching and memory devices as they exhibit extreme reliabilities with on/off ratios of 10^4–10^5, and billions of these three-terminal devices can be fabricated on single planar substrates. On the other hand, two-terminal devices coupled with a nonlinear current–voltage response can be considered as alternatives provided they have large and reliable on/off ratios and that they can be fabricated on a large scale using conventional or easily accessible methods. Here, we report that two-terminal devices consisting of discontinuous 5–10 nm thin films of graphitic sheets grown by chemical vapour deposition on either nanowires or atop planar silicon oxide exhibit enormous and sharp room-temperature bistable current–voltage behaviour possessing stable, rewritable, non-volatile and non-destructive read memories with on/off ratios of up to 10^7 and switching times of up to 1 microsecond (tested limit). A nanoelectromechanical mechanism is proposed for the unusually pronounced switching behaviour in the devices.


It looks like the graphene is in the form of nanocrystals (discontinuous films). How reliable is that? And 1 microsecond is a bit long for switching time. Maybe it is slower because it is mechanical. Most alternatives are faster than flash, phase change memory is on the order of 100 ns.

Lastly can the sense amplifier go to such high ratios (10^7); it looks like a signal-to-noise challenge.




RE: graphene nanocrystals
By Fritzr on 12/19/2008 9:05:14 PM , Rating: 2
The stated limitation on their testing equipment is that it cannot measure a switching time less than 1 microsecond.

They state upfront that their equipment is unable to distinguish between 10ns, 100ns or 600ns parts ... all are faster than what they can measure. Their part is also faster than what they can measure, so is no slower than 1000ns though probably faster.

Before they needed switching circuits to handle todays transistor speeds they didn't design them. Since there is now a faster switching part, one of the support circuits designed before release from R&D will be switching circuits that can either handle the max speed or will be one of the limiting parts on the final product. If the new switching circuit is slower than theoretical max then you can guarantee ongoing R&D to build one that is faster.

Pure graphene is one atom thick sheet. They state here that it will be built as a surface deposit of up to 10 layers on nanowire or SO substrate ... so strength will depend on the substrate and thermal expansion differences ... in other words it's an engineering design problem.


RE: graphene nanocrystals
By flipsu5 on 12/22/2008 8:32:36 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the clarification. I am a bit surprised they can publish without sub-microsecond data. Many journals don't cut that kind of slack. We have to reserve judgment on its speed then. But designers have told me the ratio of 10 million is excessive.


RE: graphene nanocrystals
By bridgeman on 12/22/2008 1:34:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Lastly can the sense amplifier go to such high ratios (10^7); it looks like a signal-to-noise challenge.


The on-off ratio is the "signal-to-noise ratio" here. (I put that in quotes because it isn't really SNR, just something that looks similar from a design standpoint.) A higher on-off ratio means the sense amp spec is relaxed, not tightened.


RE: graphene nanocrystals
By flipsu5 on 12/23/2008 10:21:01 AM , Rating: 2
What is the read current of the selected OFF cell vs. the leakage for an unselected ON cell? If the former cannot dominate the latter, there is no OFF signal that is read above the din of the arbitrarily many unselected ON cells.


Things not mentioned that should be.
By Cogman on 12/19/2008 11:14:17 AM , Rating: 1
1. When will this be available? I've heard all these wonderful things about MRAM, FeRAM, ext. Yet we are still using Nand based memory. The fact of the matter is Nand has progressed much farther then these other tech as far as memory density. It got a head start.

2. What will the cost be.. Really. They say it will be cheap, but will it really be, have they started producing any?

3. Who is backing it? Does intel have a Graphine fab in the plans? If not, this doesn't benifit anyone. Great, in 10 years we can make a 1gb stick of graphine that will be 100x better then Nand 1gb sticks... Oh wait, umm yeah.

This stuff is exciting, however I have yet to see any company make good on any of the new fangled memory materials that have been available. It's almost like the worst kind of vaporware.




By tastyratz on 12/19/2008 11:37:55 AM , Rating: 3
then you aren't patient enough.

Many of the things in production now lived in labs for 5+ years beforehand. Technology from concept to production is VERY slow.
Most of the new tech we read about here is true bleeding edge and has to be taken that way.
And you are right, much of it could very well be vaporware if something more viable and economical arrives before it reaches fruition. Name of the game.
Ive known about bluray and 3d fluorescent optical storage for about 10 years now, and learned about both at the same time. 3d storage isn't even in consumer production yet I discussed it the same year I heard of blue lasers


You forgot to mention
By wordsworm on 12/19/2008 3:00:05 PM , Rating: 2
You forgot to mention that to completely format the drive only requires a rubber eraser. Also, the drives, after they've concluded their service or have been broken, may be recycled into pencils.




RE: You forgot to mention
By flipsu5 on 12/22/2008 8:42:46 AM , Rating: 2
LOL - a point that should not and cannot be missed. The breaking and erasure of pencil graphite already calls into question the mechanical performance of graphene.


Memristors and Graphene are our future
By wingless on 12/20/2008 3:23:52 PM , Rating: 2
I can't wait to see a day when our components are based on memristor and graphene circuitry. Honestly, we wouldn't even have to worry about optical circuits for a couple more decades if we can get these technologies to market soon enough.

The good thing about memristor and graphene is that we have the technology currently to mass produce them both. Retooling for memristors especially wouldn't be any more complicated than transitioning to a new process.




By flipsu5 on 12/22/2008 8:40:52 AM , Rating: 2
A lot of two-terminal devices already qualify as memristors (e.g., diodes and thyristors). Memristors are our past and present as well :P


Run-on sentence
By ggordonliddy on 12/21/2008 12:20:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Performance of graphene-based systems is impressive, the researchers say that the new switches are faster than the lab's testing equipment can measure and they promise long life as well.


Would you DT writers please improve your grammar? The above quote should be immediately caught by any author as a run-on sentence that will disrupt the reading flow.

FYI, you can just replace the comma after "impressive" with a semicolon to make the sentence be coherent and grammatically correct. You can learn more at: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_c...




RE: Run-on sentence
By Shmak on 12/21/2008 1:52:18 PM , Rating: 2
Why do people come on here and make completely irrelevant comments about grammar? Nobody cares. You are nitpicking for attention.


Brain GRAM for ya...
By neofox on 12/20/2008 7:33:04 AM , Rating: 2
Hi guys presetning the new Brain GRAM (Graphene Rnadmom Access Memory) for your obsolete brains.

new product is made on 15nm scale its 1,5cm square and can hold all your pitu life into it.

What ya waitin for go do the implant...

P.S. U can have (UST) Universal Scum Track(new gps like method :) for just 15$

Limited Time Offer
:p




Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By on 12/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By FITCamaro on 12/19/2008 10:44:24 AM , Rating: 5
I'm starting to think you're the Chef Brian personality of Tim's at Ctrl+Alt+Delete.


By ertomas on 12/19/2008 10:58:56 AM , Rating: 2
I actually beleive that Chef Brian makes more sense...


By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 11:01:52 AM , Rating: 3
I equate him to the movie Eraserhead. You come out of it really confused, searching for any kind of meaning and a bit queasy that it exists.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By rudolphna on 12/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 11:23:17 AM , Rating: 2
Like usual, the monkeys want to hold technology back. "It too hard, me want moving things even though they are inferior, ug.". Get over it, technology is going solid state. Do you expect them to move the drive at 30k RPM or is there some other magic method you propose to speed up a mechanical drive? Friggin' cave people, I swear.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By FITCamaro on 12/19/2008 11:40:30 AM , Rating: 1
There's nothing wrong with liking something that works and is reliable.


By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 11:53:39 AM , Rating: 2
There is when the person desires to stifle technology advances to keep something antiquated around. Mechanical parts on electronics are slowly going away and that is a good thing.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By masher2 (blog) on 12/19/2008 11:44:37 AM , Rating: 2
> "Do you expect them to move the drive at 30k RPM or is there some other magic method you propose to speed up a mechanical drive?"

Lots of ways, actually. The simple expedient of adding an additional drive head would not only double bandwidth, but halve rotational latency -- roughly the same effect as doubling rotational speeds.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 11:51:16 AM , Rating: 2
Roughly to say the least. On top of that this adds complication and more moving parts to fail, not something most companies want. Mechanical drives are dying, let them go.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By Schrag4 on 12/19/2008 1:41:45 PM , Rating: 2
I'll "let them go" when the alternative is more reliable, faster, and cheaper (per GB). I don't have money to burn after all. (Apparently you do...)


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 1:46:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'll "let them go" when the alternative is more reliable, faster, and cheaper (per GB). I don't have money to burn after all. (Apparently you do...)


What the hell are you talking about? Of course you wait till they are viable, that is what research is for. You also didn't factor in failures into your equation. If you are a major company and have large amounts of mechanical hard discs writing and reading most of the time, you will have failures on mechanical drives frequently.

On most solid state technologies, this is no longer a large issue which will save money in purchasing all those drives. Don't think so one dimensionally.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By whiskerwill on 12/19/2008 1:57:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What the hell are you talking about?
He's probably talking about your inability to express yourself clearly. When you say to "let them go" in regards to hard drives, what else can you possibly mean besides for us to stop building and buying them?

But in your strange alternate reality, "let them go" seems to mean, "lets keep buying them but research alternatives also".

By the way, you're also wrong about failures. Unless you're doing nothing but reads, hard drives are still more reliable per bit than flash memory.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 2:55:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But in your strange alternate reality, "let them go" seems to mean, "lets keep buying them but research alternatives also".


Let them go means let them go. They are GOing away, that is where you LET THEM GO. Whether they go away immediately or 5 years from now, you don't cling to them as they start to go. As the one guy commented, he says we should keep them and just tweak them. That is silly.

quote:
By the way, you're also wrong about failures. Unless you're doing nothing but reads, hard drives are still more reliable per bit than flash memory.


Show some actual stats or you are pulling it out of your ass. Are you telling me a 15k RPM SCSI drive has the same service life as a 7200RPM SATA drive? Also the idea of dual heads was brought up, which would compound failure rates in an attempt to match the speed of solid state. Start factoring in heat and you have more to worry about.

Hard drive throughput is a large limiting factor for a lot of operations, it needs to be addressed and they are doing just that with solid state.

Moving parts in computers need to go away and they will slowly but surely. We should be embracing that fact, not fearing it.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By whiskerwill on 12/19/2008 3:24:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Show some actual stats or you are pulling it out of your ass.
Google "wear levelling" for all the information you need. You can write the same bit to a hard drive hundreds of millions of times. Flash is way behind this.

The "Bad Thing" about moving parts is they wear out. But if you're doing heavy writes, flash memory is more of a "moving part" than any hard drive ever thought about.

If you're doing almost all reads, or you're in some extreme shock environment, flash is much more reliable, yeah. But conflating "moving parts" with "bad" isn't always true.

quote:
Let them go means let them go. They are GOing away, that is where you LET THEM GO.
Ok I give up. The information content of that statement is zero. Maybe English isn't your native language or something.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 3:49:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Google "wear levelling" for all the information you need. You can write the same bit to a hard drive hundreds of millions of times. Flash is way behind this. The "Bad Thing" about moving parts is they wear out. But if you're doing heavy writes, flash memory is more of a "moving part" than any hard drive ever thought about. If you're doing almost all reads, or you're in some extreme shock environment, flash is much more reliable, yeah. But conflating "moving parts" with "bad" isn't always true.


Flash is not the only option for this, I thought that was the point of these technologies? We know flash has it's downfalls, that is why all this money and time goes to these other technologies. Solid state doesn't indefinitely mean flash. I'm not really sure why you make this comparison as the article is about future tech, not what we currently produce.

quote:
Ok I give up. The information content of that statement is zero. Maybe English isn't your native language or something.


That is because it was never directed at you, ignore it. I never asked for your opinion on it as it was directed to be within the context of his statement. He wants to hold onto mechanical hard drives forever cause he understands them better, I said let them go. Move on, it isn't that big of a deal, you are blowing it well out of proportion.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By whiskerwill on 12/19/2008 3:57:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Flash is not the only option for this,
Its the option you said was "more reliable" than hard drives. I showed you that's not always true.

quote:
He wants to hold onto mechanical hard drives forever cause he understands them better
What he actually said was "I'll stop buying as soon as something better comes along". What was your native language again?


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 4:25:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Its the option you said was "more reliable" than hard drives. I showed you that's not always true.


I said solid state, not flash. Solid state is quite broad and does not specify one of these technologies, you were the one that decided flash was the topic and I refused to follow.

quote:
What he actually said was "I'll stop buying as soon as something better comes along". What was your native language again?


Please quote where he said that, as I see it nowhere in his post.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By whiskerwill on 12/19/2008 4:36:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I said solid state, not flash
Lol, you're pathetic. I said "hard drives are more reliable than flash if you're writing a lot". You accuse me of pulling facts out of my ass, then when you're proven wrong, you pull this? I'd be angry if I wasn't laughing so hard.

quote:
Please quote where he said that, as I see it nowhere in his post.


Sure. He said, "I'll "let them go" when the alternative is more reliable, faster, and cheaper". See it now?

For those of us who actually speak English, that translates to "I'll stop buying when something better comes along".


By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 4:52:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Lol, you're pathetic. I said "hard drives are more reliable than flash if you're writing a lot". You accuse me of pulling facts out of my ass, then when you're proven wrong, you pull this? I'd be angry if I wasn't laughing so hard.


You chose to argue flash, I said solid state. Sure, you are right for flash, so? That isn't the topic of the article. I said show some stats or you pulled it out of your ass, which is essentially true. Everything requires proof, get over yourself. To get mad over someone asking for reference is childish.

Also the point still stands that mechanical hard drives are more likely to have catastrophic failures from mechanical parts breaking, something solid state does not have these mechanical downfalls. Add in the suggested head and you have added significant point of failure. If you want the drive to match something solid state for performance, you will have to take a lot of failure risk.

quote:
Sure. He said, "I'll "let them go" when the alternative is more reliable, faster, and cheaper". See it now? For those of us who actually speak English, that translates to "I'll stop buying when something better comes along".


I have a feeling we were talking about different people, I was mainly referring to rudolphina or whatever his name is. Also I agreed with waiting till something matching those variables happens. I thought that was the point of this article to show that something viable was coming.

Either way if this or IBM's technology comes through, it would mean time to phase out mechanical. The original poster I was referring to seemed to think we should just keep using them forever since they are easier.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By Schrag4 on 12/19/2008 5:46:50 PM , Rating: 2
Soooo.....I'm a few days away from building a new system. What drive would you suggest I put in this thing? I want 500+ GB, and I don't want to spend a lot (probably 900 for the whole system, OS included, gaming machine). Should I get 2 250GB SSD's for 700 bucks each? Or should I get a 1 TB mechanical drive for 100 bucks? In one post you ridiculed me, saying I should "let them go" (mechanical drives), but I bet you'll tell me to go with the mechanical drives.

...and here's kinda my point. If I were a BUSINESS and I needed 1 TB of RELIABLE storage, I wouldn't buy 4 of the SSDs for a grand total of 2800 bucks. For the same cash I could get 28x1TB drives and choose whatever kind of redundancy I want, statistically making them a FAR SUPERIOR choice (when it comes to reliability) when comparing to SSDs. I wouldn't "let them go" just yet, as you suggest we all should.

FYI, those prices are at NewEgg


By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 5:48:44 PM , Rating: 1
Agreed. That wasn't my point. You had an agenda, I had an agenda and it would appear we missed each other.


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By darkfoon on 12/19/2008 6:55:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Show some actual stats or you are pulling it out of your ass.


It's common sense. A flash chip has a set number of writes before it will fail. A magnetic harddrive will write until it mechanically fails. For example: I have a flash drive (not an SSD) that has 20 megabytes dead on it. I have written and deleted so much data in the 2 years I've owned it that 20 megabytes worth of it's storage capacity is broken. Compare that to the harddrive I've had in my computer since 2000 which doesn't have a single bad sector and I have written many more times the data to it than the dinky flash drive.
Granted bathtub curves factor into this. Most harddrives don't last that long. I consider myself lucky. But the fact remains that over the same amount of time, I could write and delete data on my harddrive many times more than I could to a flash drive. I am leaving reads out of this comparison because they do not wear out flash.

Also, heat isn't as much as a factor as you think it is. Several months ago there was an article on Dailytech about research done at a University that suggests heat has very little to do with the life-expectancy of a harddrive.

I am not supporting your position nor am I denying it. Yes, mechanical harddrives will be eventually replaced... When the prices can be affordable for average individuals. DVD was available YEARS before it became common. But DVD players cost $10,000 dollars and DVDs were certainly quite expensive. But consumers went along happily with VHS until DVD came down in price.
I imagine that mechanical harddisks may eventually take the place of tape-based storage in the future. Harddrives can hold more than tape, and if left powered off and are protected from elements, they will survive longer given that they don't need to be unwound/rewound like tape to keep the tape from becoming brittle. Also, I've never heard of a rat chewing a harddrive, but I did work for a business that, at a critical moment in time, discovered they had a rat problem when they went to restore a tape backup and found it destroyed.
The only thing tape has for it, is that tapes are cheap to manufacture.


By Fritzr on 12/19/2008 9:32:16 PM , Rating: 2
Adding to the argument against "let it go" ... Holographic drives with capacities starting at 300GB per disc and scheduled to go to at least 1.6TB per disc are available to buy today. Given that they are on the market, then it is time to let CD, DVD & BluRay go the way of the 8" floppy. After all everyone can afford an $18,000 optical drive that is the future of storage, snd the older formats are now obsolete.

Or perhaps we can let this much larger storage per disk, with greater stability of media, rest for a while longer while we still use dinky 50GB-200GB per disk DVD variants or, for us Stone Age geeks, DVDs and CDs for backup and USB flash drives as floppy replacements.

Holographic Versatile Disk (HVD) standard approved June 28, 2007 with possible 3.9TB disks as part of the standard.
(not yet available though)
Wiki entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile...

Inphase Holographic Storage Planned to go to 1.6TB over the next 3 to 4 years
Wiki entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InPhase_Technologies
ZDNet article & video (April '08)
http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=313
Where to buy your InPhase 300r 300GB Holographic Disk Drive today!!! (Pricing may vary ... the $18,000 was April '08)
http://www.inphase-technologies.com/wheretobuy/def...


By omnicronx on 12/19/2008 11:35:39 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
So Im going to talk to you like my 17 year old son. Dude, your a faqqot. Go kill yourself, nobody likes you.
You told your 17 year old son to kill himself, and that nobody likes him?

I don't think calling someone a 17 year old and then proceeding to call them a 'faqqot' makes you sound any smarter.(or older for that matter)


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By on 12/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By BansheeX on 12/19/2008 3:58:01 PM , Rating: 2
Does this fake account belong to an admin or something? All you do is post weird, impossibly stupid things in the name of the system you're trying to disparage. Your post record is months of -1s. If I named myself XBOX THREE SIXTY and did this, I'd get banned in a heartbeat. Why haven't you been?


RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By on 12/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Mechanical devices are for kids to...
By masher2 (blog) on 12/19/2008 6:13:55 PM , Rating: 2
I'm seeing that rarest of creatures: a "PlayStation-Three" post not yet downrated to -1.

I feel like I've just spotted the Loch Ness monster. :)


By Fnoob on 12/19/2008 9:47:54 PM , Rating: 2
NS. What's more amusing is that there is a current article on this site actually about the PS3 that 'it' doesn't bother contributing to. It must conserve it's considerable intellect in order to weigh in on graphene.


By flydian on 12/19/2008 7:14:15 PM , Rating: 2
Best comment ever from this account!


By Black69ta on 12/20/2008 8:14:37 PM , Rating: 1
Oh we wouldn't kill you, after all, with all the "geeks and nerds" on here that probably read a lot. we would much rather test some of those torture methods we read so often about.


By shadowoth on 12/20/2008 5:13:36 PM , Rating: 1
So that's why you hate us heteros. You want everyone dead.


By luseferous on 12/19/2008 12:35:58 PM , Rating: 1
Stop feeding the troll, it only encourages them.


Offical "PLAYSTASTION THREE" hate string
By Joz on 12/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: Offical "PLAYSTASTION THREE" hate string
By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 11:11:26 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
(graphine (graphite [carbon])) is the most common element there is


Hydrogen is the most common element there is. Carbon isn't even on the top 10 most abundant elements on planet Earth.


By omnicronx on 12/19/2008 11:30:56 AM , Rating: 2
Graphite is a common minerals though(where there is limestone there is graphite). Saying Graphite = carbon is not really correct either, its the mineral form of the element carbon.

You are right though, Carbon is not even close to the most abundant elements on earth, in fact I don't think its in the top 20.


RE: Offical "PLAYSTASTION THREE" hate string
By UzairH on 12/19/2008 12:50:25 PM , Rating: 3
I believe a little clarification to your statement is in order: Hydrogen is the most abundant element in _the universe_. When we speak of exploitable resources, it is more usual to talk about element abundance in the earth's crust. In the crust Oxygen and Silicon are by far the most abundant elements; Hydrogen is at number 10 and Carbon is 14th. When we speak of element abundance in whole earth, Iron is the most abundant due to forming the core.


RE: Offical "PLAYSTASTION THREE" hate string
By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 1:06:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in _the universe_.


Which would mean my statement was correct, no clarification needed unless you think in only Earth terms. On top of that, he was still completely wrong on the Earth portion and I made sure to point that out as well.


RE: Offical "PLAYSTASTION THREE" hate string
By Schrag4 on 12/19/2008 1:35:51 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
...no clarification needed unless you think in only Earth terms.


Context. Since when did we start making PC components from materials that we gathered while spacewalking? I can probably speak for most of us when I say that Earthlings usually think only in Earth terms when building something. This is an article about storage devices meant to be built on Earth and used on Earth, right?


By Gzus666 on 12/19/2008 1:38:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Context. Since when did we start making PC components from materials that we gathered while spacewalking? I can probably speak for most of us when I say that Earthlings usually think only in Earth terms when building something. This is an article about storage devices meant to be built on Earth and used on Earth, right?


And that was specified in the post I made about it, clarifying both ways, are you slow or just pig headed?


"We basically took a look at this situation and said, this is bullshit." -- Newegg Chief Legal Officer Lee Cheng's take on patent troll Soverain

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