Source: Detroit News
quote: I think sometimes people forget the road we were going down before the EPA was created.
quote: Maybe we should work to improve the quality and effectiveness of government, instead of assuming that government by definition is evil, shall we?
quote: The problem here is that we shouldn't use the "government" to correct a wrong.
quote: the Supreme Court interpreted the clause even more expansively, conferring upon Congress a plenary power to impose taxes and to spend money for the general welfare subject almost entirely to its own discretion. Even more recently, the Court has included the power to indirectly coerce the states into adopting national standards by threatening to withhold federal funds
quote: And walmart is as American as apple pie
quote: The only humorous thing is that you rail against them but then also rail against the regulation that reigned in companies that were taking the free market to even more extremes.
quote: However, the real goal is the restriction of freedom and subjugation of the population to further a political ideal by creating a dependent class voting majority.
quote: The degradation of air quality
quote: Besides LA doesn't even have LA smog anymore.
quote: Bulls***. Period.
quote: But even if you were right, we're talking about ONE city in a country of over 350 million citizens. You seriously think we should make policies for the nation based on that?
quote: And why should the UAW have any say in fuel economy standards? They are a labor union. Their job is to build the cars that engineers design.
quote: I also laugh at the idea that anything the Obama administration does with science in mind is well thought out.
quote: And no California doesn't just get to make its own decisions and thats the end of it. Higher standards in California means that automakers have to design cars with California's standards in mind. They don't build two different cars. California having higher standards effects the rest of the country.And if LA has bad air quality to where businesses don't want to be there, they can move. LA does not have a large enough effect on the entire economy that standards should be made with it especially in mind. Detroit is pretty much irrelevant to the entire economy now as well except for the makers of police tape and abandoned building signs. Chicago. Yet another shit hole but at least they have oil refineries.
quote: You did nothing in that long winded post to suggest why unions should any say in the fuel economy of vehicles. How are union executives who know nothing about engineering going to contribute anything worthwhile to the conversation?
quote: What caused the auto companies to bleed money IS the unions using threats and intimidation to push for ever higher pay and benefits for people with high school educations. That pay and benefits is what killed the automakers. And now the UAW has more power than ever to do it again.
quote: The EPA is long since been an arm of the government that just makes sure that companies aren't blindly destroying the environment. It has turned into an organization that pushes for ever higher standards without any basis of an actual threat to anything. Higher fuel economy standards, higher air quality standards. Nevermind we've gotten to the point where the improvements do nothing for health or just aren't possible without highly disrupting the marketplace resulting in companies having to spend massive amounts of money to meet the standards, which gets passed on to consumers.
quote: And it might not be all the way there yet, but how is the direction of things not towards a socialist model? The government effectively controlling banks, the government controlling auto companies, the government controlling the student loan market and pretty much the mortgage loan market since most loans are STILL being sold to Fannie and Freddie, and the government eventually controlling health care if the Obamacare stands. All either directly or through regulation. Hell you have the government limiting how much banks can charge in fees for debit card transactions. And then the same people who pushed that bill complaining that banks are now trying to pass that lost revenue on to consumers which banks said would happen in the first place.
quote: I was not refuting my own assertion. California making its own rules definitely impacts the rest of the nation as far as cars are concerned. Just because LA's economy isn't big enough to really matter to the rest of the country doesn't take away from the fact that its a part of California which wants to make its own standards. Nor should FEDERAL standards be made with any one city in mind, regardless of how big or small it is. Or even an entire state.
quote: And if LA has bad air quality to where businesses don't want to be there, they can move.
quote: They don't build two different cars. California having higher standards effects the rest of the country
quote: The UAW has been in the pocket of the Democratic party for longer than I've been alive.
quote: Hell study the details of the GM bailout, do you see a running theme here? The very idea that you hold them up as some kind of impartial party invalidates any point you're trying to make.
quote: It does nothing to address my valid argument that these standards were agreed upon by all the major parties that have a stake in this issue.
quote: You are so ignorant about so many things I can't even bother anymore.Statements like this. Are you taking stupid pills?
quote: You appear to be oblivious to the amount of power the Government wields and the fear that goes along with it.
quote: You're also completely ignorant about UAW's role in GM nearly going bankrupt. They most certainly were willing to bleed their "host" dry. GM executives pleaded with them on several occasions that the current UAW contracts were no longer sustainable, the UAW did NOT care.
quote: Several key parties have expressed concerns or outright denouncement of these standards. You think there's an agreement? Even worst, you actually believe the people in Washington require or even CARE about an agreement. Ryrod, they will do WHATEVER they want regardless if there's an agreement or not. Is this how you actually think things work?
quote: CEO's and UAW don't make policy. I can only hope those who do, our elected officials, succeed in blocking such ridiculous mandates and focus on much more important matters.
quote: Unfortunately, I only started going there 5 years ago, but if this is "much better" then I would hate to have seen what it was back then.
quote: Travel to LA sometime and then try and tell me that you think that the air quality is satisfactory.
quote: i stopped reading your post after the part wher eyou blame the democrats that entered office in 2009 for the effects of a recession that started in 2007
quote: I've read their budget proposals around the time of the debt ceiling debates. It's total madness.
quote: Do you know what an exponential gain is?
quote: Besides, the vast majority of those "slaves" were actually indentured servants.
quote: If you would study Civil War timelines, the slavery wasn't a real issue until towards the end of the war. The emancipation proclamation, was used to drum up the faltering support of the North in order to continue the war.
quote: So the South did lose the battle (Civil War), but they technically won the war (maintained a significant source of even cheaper labor).
quote: The experience of all ages and nations, I believe, demonstrates that the work done by slaves, though it appears to cost only their maintenance, is in the end the dearest of any. A person who can acquire no property, can have no other interest but to eat as much, and to labour as little as possible.
quote: Per the original, blacks were considered 3/5 of a person and women had no right to vote (among other non-equal things.)
quote: "the constitution doesn't explicitly say the government can purchase an M1 Abrams tank, therefore the government cannot purchase an M1 Abrams tank."
quote: THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION - Article. I., section 8, Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
quote: The 3/5th's compromise was actually proposed by those against slavery as a way to limit the power of the states in which slavery was legal. It was not intended to mean that a slave was only worth 3/5th's of a free person. Rather it was put in place to limit the power of those who owned the slaves. Ironically, the slave states wanted the slaves to count as whole persons in this regard! It's essentially meaningless at this point anyway, as there's not really anyone in the US to whom the 3/5th's compromise would apply.
quote: Here's the contract, you sign it or I kill you or leave you locked up in this cage that I put you in until you die, or kill your neighbor, relatives, and friends.
quote: Here's the contract, you sign it or I kill
quote: Actually both. Many cases of indentured servants were virtually indistinguishable from those of slaves
quote: Besides, the vast majority of those "slaves" were actually indentured servants. You should know that, and what the difference is if you had a even a half decent teacher in high-school US history.
quote: It makes me sick to think about how much government intervention has destroyed all of the good things that we had going for us.
quote: if you had a even a half decent teacher in high-school US history.
quote: But perhaps this is not the forum for an in depth discussion of such details.
quote: Am I understanding your point/belief is that the federal government shouldn't be involve in those things at all? But you would be ok with state governments being involved in these things?
quote: Your example is a perfect one as to why we need a centralized government. Are you telling me people in VA are no better than people in NC, so they should be subject to worse conditions than those in NC?
quote: It is safe to say, that the one reducing spending will also have to some point dumber kids than the one that is spending more if they both started out spending at a reasonable rate.
quote: There are always limits to the federal government. Just not crazy ones like what many interpret our forefathers would do today.
quote: Should laws that ban guns in a densely populated area be implemented in Alaska? Of course not! It is still mostly a frontier country and they deal with things we never see in our lifetime.
quote: What we have now, is the total opposite of that view. The rules come from the Top down, instead of the bottom up. Just look at the simple fact that we have federal INCOME taxes! For the love of God, I can't understand how we have allowed the continuation of taxing OUR INCOME. Just as the healthcare bill is unconstitutional, so is federal income tax, and education laws.
quote: Yes, that's correct. Without writing a book about US history... the original idea of uniting our colonies under one government was that they would still be afforded the protection of foreign and domestic threats, but still be able to essentially govern themselves.
quote: So, to answer you question: Laws should start at the state level, and branch out to counties, cities, municipalities, etc; and the federal government should only stick to what they have explicitly be afforded (which is very clearly defined in the constitution).
quote: It about time that we return to our roots, force politicans to be an actual public servant position again, limit their powers, give them term limits, and work on fixing our corrupt judicial system.
quote: Now, if you are talking about politicians being public servants by listening to their constituents and not big money interests, then you should be occupying wall street and not supporting the Tea Party.
quote: I'd also like to know what you are talking about when you say we need to fix our corrupt judicial system. How is it corrupt? Is it because they making rulings that you do not agree with personally?
quote: ROFL. You post slowly deteriorates as it progresses. Do you seriously think that the morons at occupy Wall Street have a clue how the government really works?
quote: I have done a lot of research on this topic, and the founders of this nation wanted the true powers to stay with the states and the people (more importantly the people). It's people like you who misinterpret the Constitution and find out of context pieces to distort meaning.
quote: The "necessary and proper" clause gives implied powers to congress. By that, it means implied powers that are EXPLICITLY stated within CONTEXT of their STATED power. For example, it says that congress can raise an army, therefor that implies that they can tax to fund it, purchase capitol for it, exercise power to use it etc. As some else said earlier, you cannot read something outside of it's context.
quote: The document SPECIFICALLY says what powers the federal government has, and that everything else is up to the states.
quote: I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but if you think the way our current judicial system works, then you have no idea what goes on in the real world. I am heavily involved in law enforcement research, and I see every single day why it's broken. Do some research, I don't have time to spell it all out.
quote: No where in there does it say that the government should be allowed to tax you for the purposes of a retirement package, or to give you housing or schooling or cell phones or food or a car or medical care. The federal government is not responsible for ANY OF THAT. Yet they've taken advantage of every down turn in the economy and every crisis to expand their power.
quote: You need a diploma in this country to cut hair! You need a certification to arrange flowers and a degree be an interior decorator. THAT IS TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT!
quote: As for housing, schooling, and medical care those fall under the spending clause
quote: They might as well tear the document up now if people refuse to STUDY the Constitution before spreading misinformation. I really suggest you take a few classes on the U.S. Constitution and it's history. If you don't know the history behind it and the meaning of the document within context, then you essentially have no idea how to read/interpret it.
quote: The document was written for two reasons:1) define us as a "more perfect union"2) LIMIT powers of federal regulation
quote: The tea baggers make themselves look bad.
quote: I still believe that the citizens know what is best for them, and that they don't need big brother to tell them what color underwear to put on each morning.
quote: Thinking like this drag us in this economic storm we have to endure right now. Until you accept the fact that you, me or anybody else only know at best several thing decently and that doesn't mean what you know is best for you.
quote: Rare metals from China for example, we can't get in sufficient supply anywhere else while things like oil, we have under our own soil but mere politics prevents our use of it.
quote: focusing on their objective to return this nation back to small and limited government
quote: You mean like how Toyota did with their gas-guzzling Prius?
quote: Are you talking about some alternate US Constitution that regulates fuel efficiency?
quote: Tenth Amendment states the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the states by the Constitution are reserved, respectively, to the states or the people.
quote: the bailouts relied on existing government power and did not give the government any new power.
quote: FYI, the power to take is explicit in the constitution as well as the power to give.