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Apple iMac  (Source: Apple)

MacBook 13"  (Source: Apple)
Cuts are reportedly in store, both first desktop and laptop lines

Faced with slumping sales and stinging criticism from competitor Microsoft over its high prices, Apple is reportedly going to try a price cut to spur its computer sales.  While Apple's general sales have been saved by its iPhone, its computer sales, both for laptops and desktops have slumped.  It is still earning more profit than some competitors thanks to large profit margins, but as losses continue, the company is becoming increasingly concerned.

Apple-specific blog Apple Insider reports that "people who’ve proven extremely reliable in predicting Apple’s future business directions" have let slip that Apple will cut the prices of its most popular desktop and laptop models -- the iMac and the 13 in. MacBook.

The sources say that the move is not an attempt to counter Microsoft's new "Laptop Hunter" ads, but rather is an effort to keep up with netbook sales, which are driving down PC prices.  Apple has no intention of deploying a netbook Mac.  As CEO Steve Jobs put it, "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

However, the company is looking to possibly deploy a web or media tablet, according to reports.  Steve Jobs himself is reportedly working on the device, which may or may not be the tablet rumored to be coming to the Verizon network as a Wi-Fi phone.

According to the report on the pricing changes, the changes could land in a month or two.  Writes the site, "
It’s believed that the first batch of more affordable Macs could turn up as early as this spring as part of a restructured MacBook line, while MacBook Pros for the most part would stay their course and benefit slightly from Intel’s planned Montevina refresh, which should nudge clock speeds."

Analysts believe that a permanent price cut is more likely than a discount.  States Ezra Gottheil, an Apple-focused analyst at Technology Business Research, "I think the price resistance they’re experiencing isn’t a matter of, 'If it were $100 cheaper I would buy it,' it’s a matter of, 'You don’t have a PC in the $600 range.'  The sort of thing where they say, ‘Now the base MacBook is $100 less,’ is quite conceivable."

However, there is also skepticism over whether some of the cuts will occur at all.  States Gottheil, "The iMacs, however, they just refreshed. I think they’d be cutting their margins thinner they wanted to, if they were to reduce those.."


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will always be expensive
By ashegam on 5/1/2009 1:07:44 PM , Rating: 5
Dropping from $2500 to $2499. I'm sure that will bump their market share.




RE: will always be expensive
By OPR8R on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: will always be expensive
By FITCamaro on 5/3/2009 12:17:33 AM , Rating: 5
Uh no its still overpriced.


RE: will always be expensive
By biggsjm on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: will always be expensive
By mofo3k on 5/1/2009 3:54:31 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Geez. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.


That's actually been Apple's philosophy up until now, but they might actually need some of those naysayers to start buying Macs instead.


RE: will always be expensive
By tjr508 on 5/1/2009 6:32:44 PM , Rating: 5
Don't forget about the $200-$500 worth of service packs that you will need over its lifetime.


RE: will always be expensive
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: will always be expensive
By 67STANG on 5/3/2009 12:36:05 AM , Rating: 5
I think DT needs to start all posts by Pirks at -1 rating... save us all some trouble.


RE: will always be expensive
By Pirks on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: will always be expensive
By Boze on 5/5/2009 1:30:19 PM , Rating: 2
Your -1 rating is because you spout out ridiculous bullshit. And that's only half the reason you have a -1 rating on the bulk of your posts.

You have a -1 rating most of the time because you spout out ridiculous bullshit after being proven wrong over and over again on a variety of technical subjects .

And then you have the inconceivable balls to complain its because this site's users are biased towards Windows. This site's users are biased towards highest performance machines built for the least amount of money... in other words, getting the most bang for your buck. OF COURSE you wouldn't fit in here! You love Apple products, which are all about making something shiny and pretty and happy and easy for Joe Wannabesmarttechguy to use at a ridiculously high price point.

I honestly think you're just a bored person who wants to stir up some shit. I'd find it hard to believe you actually buy into all this bullshit you're shovelin' around... and if you do, boy do I feel sorry for yah, because you seriously need to consider professional help for this mental problem from which you're suffering.

You cry about making DailyTech a haven for liars, but in reality, you're upset because see through your bullshit, and Apple's, on this site.


RE: will always be expensive
By Boze on 5/5/2009 1:33:40 PM , Rating: 3
Last line should have read: "... because people see through..." Sorry!

Also, when did DailyTech start rating new posts down to 0s because of so-called "profane" words (censorship, nowadays?? c'mon guys, let's be a little more brave).


RE: will always be expensive
By jlips6 on 5/3/2009 10:57:59 AM , Rating: 4
but Pirks is right you know.
Having a functional computer is optional. Having a computer shaped brick is just as feasible.


RE: will always be expensive
By Pirks on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: will always be expensive
By jlips6 on 5/3/2009 1:07:34 PM , Rating: 2
I think you made that up yourself. A Macintosh will work, but they aren't invincible machines that never need a tune up. We are not insinuating that they don't work, we are saying that over the period of one to two years, a Macintosh will need servicing. Saying that the service is optional is basically saying that you have the choice to leave your computer in it's state of disrepair rather than use it.


RE: will always be expensive
By Pirks on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: will always be expensive
By jlips6 on 5/3/2009 10:56:27 PM , Rating: 2
Macintosh's don't HAVE to break. It just so happens that problems arise. Advice from the owner of a four year old macbook? Get a warranty, and make sure it lasts longer than a year.


RE: will always be expensive
By Dr Yee van der Waller on 5/4/2009 1:29:11 PM , Rating: 1
I am sick and tired of your whining. Metamaterials are conceptual, it an experiment focused on just that ...experimentation... with light and its properties. a practical use is likely to follow much later as was the case with voltaic cells among other breakthroughs. I hate to break it to you but light sabers are next to fictional as well. You are possibly the most annoying person in existance. Anything you say back to this comment will be egotistical crap so don't bother. Your momma is calling you...K.D. is ready


RE: will always be expensive
By jlips6 on 5/4/2009 4:50:13 PM , Rating: 2
?
I don't understand. I'm not sure if that's a bad thing though.


RE: will always be expensive
By MercAB3 on 5/4/2009 4:19:33 PM , Rating: 1
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post.collapse();
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RE: will always be expensive
By eddieroolz on 5/2/2009 7:23:25 AM , Rating: 2
And you forget that the $899 iMac is only for educational customers.

Yea, we're still stuck with $1299 iMacs or however they cost in USD.


RE: will always be expensive
By stonemetal on 5/2/2009 8:50:34 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Geez. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.


Uh, that is what has been happening, sales falling and such. Apple is trying to stop that from happening.


RE: will always be expensive
By nikon133 on 5/4/2009 8:02:46 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Dropping from $2500 to $2499. I'm sure that will bump their market share.


Are you not supposed to have market share at first place in order to have something to bump..?


We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By sprockkets on 5/1/2009 4:49:40 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
As CEO Steve Jobs put it, "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."


Your computers are made in China by either Hon Hai/Foxconn and Asus, just like everybody else. I don't buy your argument.

Further, HP makes the 2140 $479 netbook, and it's made with a 100% Aluminum Alloy body, not a "junky" plastic body, LED backlit 1366x768 screen and 6 cell battery for around 8 hours life. Comes with camera and bluetooth as well.

They do have a $1000 Mac book, with "White polycarbonate shell", which is Apple Speak for junky plastic body.




RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
By afkrotch on 5/1/2009 5:12:07 PM , Rating: 5
Two computers with the same specs/hardware will handle the workload the same. Now the OS can make a difference in there, but not enough to require a 1/4rd higher price tag or more.

You can see this all over the place. Like Asus taking an Intel chipset, making a mobo. Gigabyte taking an Intel chipset and making their own mobo. When pitted against each other, they perform close together. The same happens with ram, vidcards, etc.

Doesn't matter how Apple designs the hardware, it's going to be about the same. Apple doesn't sell better hardware. They just sell a different OS and a name for a higher price.


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
By kerpwnt on 5/1/2009 6:52:05 PM , Rating: 5
Eff it... I'll bite.

Almost a whopping 10% of it. The other >90% are yet to understand the added value of a backlit apple logo.
Now, back under your bridge!


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By itzmec on 5/1/2009 9:35:54 PM , Rating: 3
i don't see how slumping sales can disagree


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Natfly on 5/2/2009 4:16:57 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah because the market is largely influenced by MARKETING.


By borismkv on 5/2/2009 10:19:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The difference is not in the factory where the computer was made (the factory is the same indeed), it's in design. One factory can make different computers with different designs, you know.


There is absolutely no difference on the actual hardware in a 1300 dollar macbook and a 900 dollar HP. Same motherboards (despite different BIOS systems), same CPUs, same chipsets, same power circuits, etc. etc. etc. The only difference is that the Mac comes with a 500 dollar Apple Patented reality distortion field that makes people like you think they're paying for something special.


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
By nikon133 on 5/3/2009 5:49:41 PM , Rating: 2
Easy, mate.

See, when I purchase good quality motherboard - like some Gigabyte models, for example - I can easily find what makes it better than average:

- 2 ounces of copper (compared to common 1 ounce) for both the Power and Ground layers, delivering a dramatically lower system temperature, improved energy efficiency and enhanced stability for overclocking.

-Japanese Solid Capacitors boasting an operational life time of more than 50,000 hours

-Ferrite core chokes with higher energy efficiency compared to the commonly used iron core chokes

-Lower RDS(on) MOSFETs that features a lower resistance, which reduces power consumption and heat generation.

-Heatpipe cooling solution for chipset and power elements.

Etc, etc.

So when I compare that to typical, me-too motherboard, I can easily see advantages of Gigabyte Ultra Durable 3 design, and can easily justify why such motherboard carries some price premium. While there is still some marketing involved, claims above are legit.

Back to Macs... I keep hearing Macs are of better built quality compared to PCs, but so far no one - NO ONE - bothered to provide any details that will confirm that statement. I am frequent at Apple Insider forums, curious about Macs and what Mac users see as their advantage, so whenever Mac user says "yes we are more expensive but Macs are built of better quality parts", I say "Prove it. Give me any specific details about Mac parts".

And I never-ever received any answer to that question - aside of "Well, everyone knows" type of BS.

Do you mind to elaborate a bit..?


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:16:10 PM , Rating: 1
Wow, they're so much better in so many ways that you purchased an Alienware Gamebook instead.

Just when I thought you we're beginning to turn over a new leaf I read this article and noticed all of the -1's, and figured it was too good to be true.


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:47:01 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry but I disagree. His business sense must be flawed somewhat for Apple's number 1 fan to turn around and say you wanna do something which Apple doesn't support.

quote:
What? You expect all the downrating Windomorons to suddenly disappear here? Naive child :)))

Don't you get bored of twisting subjects? Because I'm sure as hell getting bored of seeing it.


By nikon133 on 5/3/2009 8:56:35 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Macs have better cooling (no holes at the bottom that block airflow when you put your MacBook on some soft surface)


So are you saying Macs don't have fans inside and don't require airflow..? That aside... my cheap HP 6730B works fine on my knees or on bed, without overheating, but that is due to Montevina platform that seems to be cooler by default.

quote:
better touchpad (large size, no ugly buttons sticking out, multitouch gestures and glass surface)


I've tried only one new Mac touchpad, and didn't like the fact that clicking lower part of touchpad is much easier than clicking upper part (top of the touchpad was pretty much unclickable). Don't know if that is common on all new Macs or this one was a bit defective. Multitouch can be found on some EEE netbooks, and is hardly price defining element.

Me, I prefer my buttons and not oversized touchpads, but that is matter of personal taste.

quote:
better screens (LED backlight)


They are reasonably common nowadays on PCs as well, from cheap netbooks to high end units. Not Mac exclusive...

quote:
better keyboard (fiberoptics backlight)

I do like Mac keyboards, though they don't look much different from Vaio keyboards, some EEE netbook keyboards, latest HP 4510s/4515s/... notebooks keyboards. I don't know if any of them is backlit.

quote:
better case (aluminum unibody)


Better looking case, maybe. Better case... than what? Lenovo R500, for mere $650 (NZ$1300 here in NZ) has case that will - according to some reviewers - survive without damage to the system a grown up man standing on closed notebook. Older R Thinkpads were reinforced with magnesium-alloy frames, new one is said to have carbon-fibre casing... technology that Apple seems to be turning to for future notebooks.

quote:
much better battery life (read any recent Anand's notebook review here)


I've read about that, and it does seem that OSX is doing power management in more effective way than Vista/XP.

But. While my cheap-as 6730b is giving 4 - 5 hours of light work on default 6 cell battery (emailing, Internet, reading/typing), I can replace battery with stronger one - and plug secondary battery if I need it. Going from 6 to 20 cell total power, with some weight sacrifice, I can achieve 15 hours of battery time.

While Mac battery solution is better off the start line, it stops where it starts, while I have options on much cheaper platform. I really like having options.

quote:
better power socket (magsafe)


I like the idea of magsafe power plug, but it is again not something that should influence price.

quote:
better DVD (slot loading)


What makes it better? Does it work faster/quieter/more reliably than tray ones? Does it lightsribe? Can you swap it for BR drive without dismantling notebook? Can you swap it at all? Can you temporarily replace it with secondary battery (like many Thinkpads can)..?

quote:
better external connectors (no legacy COM/LPT/VGA sh!t)


My HP 6730b notebook has 4 USB ports, network port, modem port, standard VGA and S-video port, firewire port, PC-card port, audio ports and docking station port. All standard, up-to-date ports (You Mac people do remember firewire, right?). Printer ports were long time abandoned for USB. Interestingly, my laptod does have single COM port, but there is reason - and demand for that - many enterprise level devices (switches, firewalls, routers...) have console port for admin access that is... good old serial port.

At least there is no proprietary stuff like that display port on Macs. I'd never swap my ports for your ports; I see them as downgrade.

quote:
better lid latch (magnetic, not mechanical)


If nothing else, those 2 little magnets are cheaper to implement than decent mechanical latch. That being said, I've seen PC notebooks without mechanical latch. No idea if they are magnetic or just use spring tension to keep notebook closed, but they are present on some very cheap notebooks.

But... all this was not even what I have asked for. I keep hearing that Mac guts are of better quality that PC guts. Better design/component quality motherboards. Better power supplies/AC adaptors. Better hard drives. Heck, some people are claiming Apple is getting better graphic chips/CPUs (like those manufacturers have parallel manufacturing lines, one for common PCs, one uber-extra-special for Apple).

Any info on that ..?


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/4/09, Rating: -1
By nikon133 on 5/4/2009 5:54:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They have fans but don't have holes at the bottom


So it still sucks air from somewhere. Should position of air duct really make any impact on price..?

quote:
Since I click using my thumb at the bottom of the touchpad I find this very convenient. Never heard of people who were looking for buttons to press at THE TOP of the touchpad, that's total insane :)


I'd like to click wherever my finger is at the moment. Having button(s) hidden under lower part of the pad doesn't make much difference from having buttons visible; actually I think it is much easier to click elevated button, than one in line with touchpad. That is probably why keyboards have elevated keys.

I presume you can still tap and double-tap anywhere on pad, right..?

quote:
You can do exactly the same thing with MacBook, so what?


You can easily replace battery on aluminium Macbooks with higher capacity one, and have 2 batteries plugged at the same time? Really?

quote:
Well, market does not seem to agree with you on that one.


You mean, 7% of market that belongs to Apple..?

quote:
The fact that it does not have that stupid tray that's so easy to break


Moron capable of carrying around notebook with opened tray is moron being able to carry around Macbook with half-pushed disk into slot. But beside not being able to lightscribe, replace it with BR or secondary battery... How do you eject jammed disk - or remove one that shattered?

quote:
DisplayPort is PROPRIETARY? Are you nuts?


Mini display port is being used pretty much by Apple only. That is the one Macbooks have, right? How many monitors beside Apple's one come with compatible video cable..? I'd call that pretty proprietary.

quote:
I heard from a friend that works for laptop repair company that MacBooks use higher quality parts like composite blades for fans (unlike standard plastic blades in cheapo PC laptops) but it's minor details.


I agree with you on this one. I've never seen fan dying or developing unearthly noise because of material blades are made of. Everything else is a myth - unless proven otherwise. I don't think Apple would skip on extra advertising (and justifying high price) if parts inside Macbooks/iMacs are of any special quality. Check on Gigabyte site and see how they are putting emphasis on their ULTRA DURABLE technology. Consider that Gigabyte advertising department is likely just a bunch of pre-school kids compared to Apples advertising team.


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/4/09, Rating: -1
By nikon133 on 5/4/2009 6:27:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Should the material of the seat covers in the car really make any impact on price?


Not significantly. But why are you avoiding to answer my simple question - should position of air duct really make any impact on price? What does seat cover material has to do with that?

quote:
Right, you can, and the space is not occupied by any stupid buttons, very elegant solution indeed.


But it doesn't always work, according to Anandtech review of new Macbooks; actually that touchpad was reviewer's major complain, much as I remember.

And you reckon it is worth extra money because..?

But I can see Apple's point - they are hiding mouse buttons as well. Form over function. Hopefully they'll not decide to hide notebook keyboards in future... (some people, though, do think ZX81 was elegant)

quote:
http://store.fastmac.com/product_info.php?products... http://www.quickertek.com/products/macbook_charger...


First link is replacement battery for older Macbook Pros (not covering Aluminium one). What about unibody Macbooks?

Second link is for something that more looks like semi-portable UPS; it is separate box connected to notebook with cable. How do you use it on your knees, say during the flight? How do you fix it to Macbook? With duct tape?

quote:
How do you fix a broken tray-load DVD drive if tray won't open no matter what you do?


Never ever seen one that will not eject with good old trusty paper clip and tray-eject pin hole. Additionaly, whole DVD device can be removed without dismantling notebook (on my 6730b at least). And again, there is nothing to justify price - just some more form over function philosophy.

quote:
Yep, the market of people with extra income.


Yeah, all those Paris Hilton wannabe teen girls in Apple Store are filthy rich ;)

quote:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/01/13/displaypor... <- eat this :))) You Apple bashers are ALWAYS lying, NO exception. You're just like the other liars.


I don't consider myself Apple basher. I'm interested to try OS. I don't mind looks and limited functionality, but I can't justify price.

From your link:
Apple's MacBook monitor port to enter standard (are we there yet?)

Laptop vendors will be soon be able to use the same mini-DisplayPort connector found on Apple's latest MacBooks (so they were not able in January 2009... right?).

At this stage it's unclear whether the Apple-designed mini connector will support... (Apple designed. Right)

So Apple designed it, it is present (right now) only on Apple notebooks, and Apple is trying to push it to the other manufacturers. And you need dongle to connect other brand monitors to it. And it is not proprietary design. Riight... and Sony's Memory Stick is not proprietary either?

quote:
You Apple bashers are ALWAYS lying, NO exception. You're just like the other liars.


Run out of arguments, eh? I guess it all depends on what seat cover material you are sitting on. ;)

quote:
No, they don't skip but they use different terminology ("just works" etc) understandable by common people.


Right. In short, they mystify things because they have nothing concrete to say on that matter. Got it.


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/4/09, Rating: 0
By nikon133 on 5/5/2009 11:09:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
It's the same thing. Different seat cover material, different dashboard design or materials, different cooling system, different airflow, all these things always affect the price.


Sorry, Pirks, but I think you are stretching a bit here. Different cooling system and holes position does not necessarily mean it is any better. Different seat cover material might influence price a bit, but holes in that material probably shouldn't.

quote:
Where is this review? I haven't seen any Macbook reviews from Anand in a while. Where did you get it?

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3435. It is not exactly fresh-as, dating end of October... but it is about latest aluminium Macs, and reasonably deep.

quote:
Because of working (not fake EEE style) multitouch and size, plus the lack of buttons that are a waste of space.

Well not according to above mentioned review...

quote:
Good thing you're not the guy who designed iPhone :P

You know, I actually like iPhone's keyboard. Feels better - for my fingers - than my work Blackberry Pearl. My next phone will be something with touch screen keys, iPhone or not. But for a computer... :)

quote:
Isn't there any other place besides your knees? A floor maybe? Why would you want to fix it to MacBook in the first place?


Come on, Pirks :) Having all in one piece (or securely fixed together) is a big bonus for portability. But if you like to juggle, maybe you don't need a monitor attached to notebook either - just carry a spare desktop screen ;)

quote:
People with low income keep telling this to themselves when they see some expensive Lexus or Acura passing by. Why buy Lexus when it's all form over function and my cheapo Chevy can do everything that Lexus can do for half a price?

Because Lexus doesn't have exactly same engine, gearbox, suspension like Chevy. And white Lexus doesn't crack all over the bodywork. How's that working..? ;)

quote:
How would they afford expensive Apple gear otherwise?

Ah, lucky kids nowadays. Wasn't like that when I was young :)

quote:
How can you call proprietary something that's licensed for free? Proprietary means money. No money required - not proprietary. It's that simple.

Technically speaking, yes... or maybe, at least. But in real life... standard designed by one company and used exclusively by one company. If I don't have an option to get other products with same standard, it doesn't make much difference for me if parent company is offering it for free or not; so let's wait and see if it gets widespread. I'll gladly accept your opinion if that happens.

quote:
The concrete details are not going to be understood by the Apple's target market (common people) so why bother posting ads about ounces of copper and stuff?

I thought Apple is not catering for common people..? ;)
I also tend to believe common people don't speak Japanese, yet there is "Get a Mac" ad almost completely on Japanese.

Base line - common people don't have to understand everything in order to see there is something important there.

And then, there are "uncommon" people... who are stirring waters by asking all those pesky questions... they don't care about ads, but wouldn't mind to see cheep technical article related to above mentioned questions... something without Justin Long, please O:)


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/6/2009 1:52:29 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Different cooling system and holes position does not necessarily mean it is any better
If you can't block incoming airflow holes because engineers wisely placed them where you can't block 'em - this is not "any better"? How so?
quote:
It is not exactly fresh-as, dating end of October
They say nothing about lack of buttons being inconvenient. They just complain that first revision of hardware is not polished enough.
quote:
Having all in one piece is a big bonus for portability
Having much more juice in an external battery is even bigger bonus for portability.
quote:
Because Lexus doesn't have exactly same engine, gearbox, suspension like Chevy
Same is true about Macs too, their design is pretty different compared to cheapo PC machines.
quote:
lucky kids nowadays
Who says only kids buy Apple machines?
quote:
I thought Apple is not catering for common people?
Who do you think they cater to then?
quote:
common people don't speak Japanese
You mean Japanese people are not common people? How so?
quote:
there are "uncommon" people
Overclockers? Apple doesn't care. It's a niche market they know nothing about.


By nikon133 on 5/6/2009 7:05:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you can't block incoming airflow holes because engineers wisely placed them where you can't block 'em - this is not "any better"? How so?

Because it is just compensating for limited airflow in ultra-supermodel-thin notebook..? :P

quote:
They say nothing about lack of buttons being inconvenient. They just complain that first revision of hardware is not polished enough.

Which makes that fancy pad bordering useless, but with premium price. Oh, I'm so excited about glass surface ;)

quote:
Having much more juice in an external battery is even bigger bonus for portability.

Carrying fully charged UPS in your backpack is even bigger bonus for portability, then? :D

If I can't put a whole thing under one arm when carrying notebook from room to room, it's a no deal for me. But you're free to juggle extra external monitor if you prefer it that way.

quote:
Same is true about Macs too, their design is pretty different compared to cheapo PC machines.

... with same CPU, chipset, graphics and audio chips, RAM, HDD. Ah, the difference! ;D It's like taking Lexus body (but one that might decide to spontaneously develop cracks) and putting Ford's Focus internals inside, while (arguably) keeping seats and dashboard. And all that beauty for the price of Bentley Continental. Now isn't that deal of the century? ;D

quote:
Who do you think they cater to then?

No idea. Have yet to meet someone with Mac. So far, I have one friend and one colleague with iPhones.

quote:
You mean Japanese people are not common people?

You mean common people in the US learn Japanese nowadays as second language? Since when? |D

quote:
Overclockers? Apple doesn't care. It's a niche market they know nothing about.

Technophiles? People who like technology? People who want to be informed? When you buy fancy car, you do want to know details about engine and gearbox... right? Or do you purchase cars only based on nice body looks? Maybe it's a Trabant engine inside. Ah, who cares; it looks so cool ;)


By Pirks on 5/6/2009 10:01:36 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Because it is just compensating for limited airflow
How do you know it's limited? Are you thinking stuff up or you have reasons to think so?
quote:
Which makes that fancy pad bordering useless
For the initial hardware batch apparently, must be fixed by firmware revisions by now
quote:
If I can't put a whole thing under one arm when carrying notebook from room to room, it's a no deal for me
You can easily put MacBook plus external battery under one arm when carrying it from room to room.
quote:
Now isn't that deal of the century?
Somehow market thinks nice body is worth a lot.
quote:
Have yet to meet someone with Mac
Wah, another farmer :)
quote:
common people in the US
Who said I meant US only? I was talking about Earth population in general.
quote:
do you purchase cars only based on nice body looks?
You can't look inside if you are not a technogeek, so common people pay a lot of attention to looks too.


By borismkv on 5/4/2009 1:39:41 PM , Rating: 1
Have you actually *seen* the new Macbooks in person yet? They most certainly have holes on the bottom. Several of them.


By XandeR136 on 5/5/2009 5:45:00 AM , Rating: 3
I totally agree with you, people say that Mac's are of better quality than other computers, but never have any proof of it, I have a macbook Pro 17" and I can say I really love the machine, but I know many other computers that likely have better parts and can be of better quality. The thing that I think makes a mac are that they choose what hardware to write their OS for and that way they can optimise the performance, and don't really have all the same problems you can get with windows because of the huge variation of hardware manufacturers.
By this the macs can seem to be of better quality because they have optimised all the way, and I do agree that the macs are overpriced, but at the same time they can also be worth the money because you have a computer that are going to work very good because of the closed hardware and the great optimisation.


By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:20:57 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Paper specs are always nice for any product, but they don't mean a lot in real life for most consumers.

I agree. You mean specs such as all of the ones you have listed for the MacBook in the past however many Mac-based articles?


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:11:34 PM , Rating: 2
In response to that, I will again quote what you said.

quote:
Paper specs are always nice for any product, but they don't mean a lot in real life for most consumers.

If the things you labelled meant so much to people, then more people would purchase MacBooks.


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
Obviously not enough for me to have noticed.


RE: We don't know how not to overprice the computer
By Pirks on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 7:10:25 PM , Rating: 2
Did you just copy and paste this from a previous post? Because I swear I've read that one before.

It wasn't funny the first time.


By nikon133 on 5/4/2009 5:57:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You must be a farmer then or some other rural kind of guy. Macs are not very popular in rural areas I heard ;)


Not robust enough..? ;)


By themaster08 on 5/4/2009 6:14:11 AM , Rating: 2
Not significant enough ;)


By derwin on 5/4/2009 8:00:21 AM , Rating: 1
Apple troll FTL!


By blueboy09 on 5/3/2009 2:12:11 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah I agree with you on this one. The only price that I have seen a Mac with an aluminum body was around $1200 and that was JUST the starting price! At that amount of money, I could get myself a great laptop w/o an aluminum body with all the goodies INTEL EXTREME QUAD CORE, 6GB RAM, 350-500GB hard drive, 802.11n network card, and that's to just name a few. - BLUEBOY


when pigs fly
By mattclary on 5/1/2009 1:29:38 PM , Rating: 5
I am tempted to say they will lower prices "when pigs fly", but looks like... swine flu already.

;)




RE: when pigs fly
By RonnieJamesDio on 5/1/2009 2:31:36 PM , Rating: 2
"Wordplay!"


RE: when pigs fly
By Yaron on 5/1/2009 4:21:00 PM , Rating: 2
hehehe... nice one! :)


RE: when pigs fly
By eddieroolz on 5/2/2009 7:32:11 AM , Rating: 2
Nothing beats a good joke to keep me up at 4:30am :)


RE: when pigs fly
By Myg on 5/2/2009 7:03:47 PM , Rating: 2
Awsome, just awsome! :-)


RE: when pigs fly
By FITCamaro on 5/3/2009 12:20:05 AM , Rating: 2
I'm guessing you got a certain text message too. :)


RE: when pigs fly
By trabpukcip on 5/3/2009 12:11:16 PM , Rating: 2
+6


I knew they were going to cave.
By RMSistight on 5/1/2009 1:05:28 PM , Rating: 1
While profit is up 13% for them, most of that was from the sales of iPhones and iPods. I knew they were going to eventually cave due to the economic situation. But I still don't think it will be enough. Apple seriously needs to bring their prices in line with PC machines. Microsoft's recent ad campaign has been working pretty well too.




RE: I knew they were going to cave.
By Davelo on 5/2/2009 12:55:02 PM , Rating: 2
Sure they'd cave after seeing those MS TV ads illustrating how much more expensive Macs were. Maybe MS is rethinking that strategy now? MS had the ace in the hole but has now awoken the sleeping midget.


RE: I knew they were going to cave.
By Pirks on 5/2/2009 1:39:45 PM , Rating: 1
Judging by amount of cash in the bank the midget's been eating lotsa steroids lately


RE: I knew they were going to cave.
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:36:06 AM , Rating: 2
It's not about how much you have, it's about what you do with what you have.


RE: I knew they were going to cave.
By Pirks on 5/3/2009 12:09:37 PM , Rating: 1
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:07:34 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks, but I already read the DailyTech article about it.


How's About Some Recursive Reporting?
By GeorgeH on 5/1/2009 1:35:38 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Apple has no intention of deploying a netbook Mac.


According to an article I read the other day:

quote:
Apple already has a working prototype of the new netbook

http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Apple+and+LG+Team+...


You'd think a high-class site like DailyTech would at least mention such things, even if they do come from less reputable sources such as DailyTech.




By meepstone on 5/1/2009 2:28:27 PM , Rating: 1
Apparently you have never seen the kramer video where he even used apple as his example of the same exact thing you are talking about. you should join the cast of mad money.


By Bender 123 on 5/1/2009 3:07:21 PM , Rating: 2
I think you should blame Apple for the contradiction...They, of course, are not going to say it, even if the data says they are. Just as much as every tech company denies existence of products until official launch.

Think: "We do not comment on rumors and speculation."


All right!!!!
By Bender 123 on 5/1/2009 1:06:20 PM , Rating: 4
The prices are going from insanely high for the hardware, to Wow! thats really expensive!
Oh, well...Cant hurt sales by cutting the price.




Huh?
By OoklaTheMok on 5/1/2009 5:44:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It is still earning more profit than some competitors thanks to large profit margins, but as losses continue, the company is becoming increasingly concerned.


So Apple is profitable, but at the same time they have losses?

That makes no sense at all. Did you mean maybe "as sales decline"?




RE: Huh?
By djc208 on 5/2/2009 8:07:29 AM , Rating: 2
They have losses to their profits, or at least I think that's the way he was using that phrase. In the business world it all about where you were vs. where you are.

Doesn't matter that sales are still above the profitability mark, if they made $10 million in profit on Mac sales last year and $9 million this year its a loss of $1 million, doesn't matter that its only "potential" profit.


What's really happening is..
By DASQ on 5/1/2009 1:24:22 PM , Rating: 3
Apple is merely reducing the 'entrance fee' into the world of Macintosh's. They're cutting the price a bit for the basic laptop and the basic all-in-one desktop just so people will be more likely to try the product, and be persuaded to spend more on the higher end items.

They haven't changed their outlook on operations, they just added another hook.




By tubalcain on 5/2/2009 12:25:21 AM , Rating: 3
The 13 inch Macbook with 2GB of ram @$1300,internal DVD drive is a much better deal than Dell's 13 inch $2800 Adamo laptop without one, even cheaper than HP's 13 inch $1800 Voodoo Envy line. I don't hear anyone complaining and comparing those. All 3 are ultrathin, clean edges, beautiful designs, etc. but you get more bang for your buck with the Macbook believe it or not. No crapware included. I keep seeing comparisons to Sony's and HP's which do the job (no pun intended) but keep in mind that they cut quite a few corners to get to that $600 price point. The only thing that I can recommend is the the Dell XPS 16 which actually trounces the Mac in terms of features and value. Again, you can always reformat but that's not the point. Since history repeats itself also remember how Apple calls other things crap then they make it and everyone is like "ahhhhhhh effervescence...." That netbook is coming...




hmmm, test...
By unableton on 5/3/2009 3:47:14 AM , Rating: 1
[insert positive comment about Apple here]

bracing for -1




RE: hmmm, test...
By jlips6 on 5/3/2009 11:23:32 AM , Rating: 2
Ooh! Ooh! I love this game!
Capitals x
No capitals

OMFG! LOL! YOU ARE [insert TEH, THE, or A] [insert variation of NOOB] STFU! I HOPE YOU AND YOUR MACS [insert painful incident] AND [insert reference about inserting mac into anal cavity] HAHAHAHAH! YOU ARE SO STUPID THAT YOU [insert unoriginal insult] AND YOU SMELL LIKE [insert form of excrement] YOU ARE [insert TEH, THE, or A] [insert homosexual or synonym] AND A [reinsert variation of NOOB]
PS MACS [insert short derogatory comment]

it's like mad libs, but with baseless, capitalized hate! I call it flame libs!


By daInvincibleGama on 5/1/2009 9:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah. And you also have a hard time making a decent MacBook for less than $2000.




By crystal clear on 5/2/2009 3:24:39 AM , Rating: 2
If titanium, magnesium alloy, or carved billet aluminum weren't exotic enough, Apple has filed for a patent on a process to make aesthetically variable carbon fiber enclosures. The company could use the process to make casings for future Macs.

Apple has filed a patent application on an improved process for forming carbon fiber reinforced "plastic housings for electronic equipment, such as enclosures for computers and portable electronic devices." The application—first filed in October of 2007 but just published this week —describes a way to add an additional layer to the standard carbon fiber forming process, extending its aesthetic qualities beyond the usual carbon fiber "look."



http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/05/apple-fi...

Any auto racing enthusiast can tell you, carbon fiber parts can shave off considerable weight compared to identical steel or aluminum parts.




More on the Apple story
By crystal clear on 5/2/2009 4:56:55 AM , Rating: 2
WWDC is Sold Out

June 8 through 12 - Tickets were selling for $1,295...
http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/

It's clear from the graphics and wording used in WWDC materials that this year's WWDC will heavily feature the iPhone, & explore What’s New in Mac OS X Snow Leopard.

Most probably a launch of the "MacBookMini."

http://www.tuaw.com/2009/04/28/dept-of-deja-vu-mac...

Price cuts in "Apple" case come only when inventory builds up to high to danger levels or when they are about to overhaul their current product lineup to prepare for a major buying season like "Back to school" & "Christmas".

Now its inventories at very high levels that got to be dealt with.




TCO, Total Cost of Owenship.... MAC VS PC
By sapiens74 on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: TCO, Total Cost of Owenship.... MAC VS PC
By cscpianoman on 5/1/2009 3:28:11 PM , Rating: 3
Considering that a quick glance at the total downloads from download.com of AVG, Avast and Avira approach 300 million from one site, I would dare to venture that most people know they can get free antivirus programs. Also why would Norton, McAfee and other be wetting their pants with Vista/Windows 7 security, dropping prices to get people to buy and showing profit losses because people are going elsewhere?

iLife suite as whole has great competition from the opensource community and last I checked opensource was free. I'm sure anyone here would be able to match program for program a great cheap alternative on the PC side of things.


RE: TCO, Total Cost of Owenship.... MAC VS PC
By biggsjm on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
By afkrotch on 5/1/2009 5:03:53 PM , Rating: 3
Wow...just wow. Guess you don't know the hardware too well.

Macbook Pro doesn't use an Itanium. It uses a Core 2 Duo. 15" Macbook Pro only supports 4 GB memory. 17" Macbook Pro has 2 dimm slots with 8 GB support. Apple's site doesn't allow you to configure 1 x 4 GB stick. Only 2 x 2 GB or 2 x 4 GB.


By Alexstarfire on 5/2/2009 6:50:50 AM , Rating: 2
As the guy above me said, you don't know jack about hardware. I wouldn't take DDR3 at 1067Mhz at any day of the week. At those speeds DDR2 would be much faster and much cheaper.

Also, why would they pay more for the slightly faster 2.4Ghz C2D, assuming that at least the speed you said was correct, when they probably are never going to use it? The notebook obviously isn't going to be used for games or anything very computational intensive else they would be looking for products that lie outside the price range.


RE: TCO, Total Cost of Owenship.... MAC VS PC
By luceri on 5/3/2009 5:39:57 PM , Rating: 2
Uhh.. Okay. Microsoft could have really killed Mac a lot harder than they did on those commercials. Find me a mac equivalent of this laptop: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9172...

From Best Buy. The version there comes with two different lcd's, one is 1920x1200, not displayed on website but available in stores for the same price.

Specs:
17", 9800m GTS GPU w/ 1024MB GDDR3
Core 2 2.26ghz (P8400)
4GB DDR3 1066mhz
320GB 7200RPM hard drive
HDMI out, 9-Cell Battery
Price: $1,150.00
Build quality is solid, Alienware uses the same model from the ODM for some of their builds.

Closest thing I can find from Apple costs WELL more than twice as much. Well over 2k with a significantly worse GPU, slower hard drive. Slightly better quality LCD on the Apple (The LG's they use are good). Faster CPU on the Apple. Apple is upgradeable 50$ upgrade for equivalent hard drive. Apple is lighter but offers less for outputs no HDMI to my knowledge and a lower cell battery. Basic tradeoffs, balances out the best I can get it to. This $1150 vs $2700 seems a bit more than the 50-100$. If there are cheaper places to get macbooks than Apple.com, let me know and correct me. Regardless I doubt you're going to get a 17" Apple with a 9800m GTS 1gb anywhere NEAR $1,150 brand new. Don't show me refurbished crap or I'll show you a 7811 refurbished for $800.


RE: TCO, Total Cost of Owenship.... MAC VS PC
By Pirks on 5/3/2009 6:16:51 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Build quality is solid, Alienware uses the same model from the ODM for some of their builds
Don't even think about comparing piece of dog excreta Gateway's joke "quality" with reliable brands like Alienware or Apple. I'm still waiting for my Gateway P-173X to came back from depot, after failing due to GPU overheating THE DAY I BOUGHT IT BRAND NEW. Your BS is not even remotely funny. You're halucinating bud :P


RE: TCO, Total Cost of Owenship.... MAC VS PC
By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 4:51:19 AM , Rating: 2
Can you say anything positive that's not mac related? Just because you have problems with all non-macs and your macs work perfectly fine doesn't mean it works that way for everyone. Other than some crapware I haven't even seen a refurbed laptop PC that hasn't worked perfectly, including my sub $400 laptop. It doesn't really mean much though. I can say the same for Macs though, except for a power port that stopped working, but that had nothing to do with the design or anything. It was because of poor use and upkeep.


By Pirks on 5/4/2009 2:08:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Can you say anything positive that's not mac related?
Dell Vostro kicks ass.


By luceri on 5/5/2009 10:16:44 AM , Rating: 2
I guess you really don't understand anything about computers. Gateway doesn't even make this notebook, they just stick a label on it. Do you think alienware sucks and has terrible quality? They use the same exact model in some of their laptops.


RE: TCO, Total Cost of Owenship.... MAC VS PC
By luceri on 5/5/2009 10:48:37 AM , Rating: 2
I didn't even see that you mentioned Alienware in your comment as one of the "good brands", I feel the need to educate here since you think 500 companies including Dell Sony Gateway Alienware etc all make their own laptops, no wonder you're so easily swindled by Apple's marketing.

Okay, some education on laptops. There's only a few major companies that make them and they're called ODM's. The main ones off the top of my head are Clevo, Asus, Compal, AOpen, Uniwill, Arima.

These companies are basically the guys who make every notebook in the world. They re-sell it to Dell, Alienware (which is actually owned by Dell), Gateway, whatever.

Dell, Alienware, Gateway, whatever, then go and put a plastic case on the ODM's laptop.

Dell, Alienware, Gateway, whatever, then sell you the product that the ODM's made with their own marketing and aesthetics.

So, no. Alienware is not "Superior Build Quality" because of the stupid looking alien-faced plastic case they put on the laptops they buy. You pay Alienware for their marketing because when it comes down to it the Alienware you just shelled out 4,000$ for is the same exact laptop you could have gotten from another company for 2000$. You just paid to have a different plastic cover on a laptop and have your warranty called "Alien Care". Like stated, that $2000 extra you just spent just went to marketing.

At least with Apple you get a different operating system. And don't tell me I'm halucinating when you have no real knowledge with the topic you're arguing about. I'm not the one who thinks Alienware's plastic glowing alien face on the ODM's laptops makes Alienware a "Reliable Brand". We're not talking about desktops using budget power supplies and budget motherboards that crap out here, laptops are an entirely different thing.


By Pirks on 5/5/2009 11:58:57 AM , Rating: 2
You lamers never even bothered to compare build and design quality of Gateway versus Alienware.

If the same ODM makes both gamebooks, why then Gateway has no dust filters like Alienware? Why Gateway's battery sticks out an ugly way from the case, when Alienware's battery is inside and does not stick out at all?

Why Gateway is 100% glossy smudgy piece'o'sh!t fingerprint-attracting plastic everywhere when Alienware is a rubber-like matte surface without a single fingerprint visible after half a year of work and gaming?

Why Gateway has NO QUALITY CONTROL AT ALL so that their gamebook fails immediately after you run a game on it, TEN MINUTES AFTER YOU UNPACKED IT FROM THE STORE, BRAND NEW? Why Alienware works reliably around oclock although it has even more powerful GPU than Gateway's GPU?

Why can I order Alienware with backlit keyboard or fingerprint reader and can't do the same with Gateway?

And the best part is: ALIENWARE IS JUST FIFTY DOLLARS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN COMPARALE PIECE'O'EXCRETA GATEWAY ($1400 vs $1350). You penny pinchers keep buying crap, you love eating your cheap crap because its ooohh aaahh THE WHOLE FIFTY BUCKS CHEAPER CRAP!!! OMG FTW XX!!!1111!!!

You morons think that the only difference is the logo. Okay, be idiots if you like, at least I will have some entertainment here :)))


Cheaper AND at we dont have to worry about viruses
By trajan on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
By mattclary on 5/1/2009 1:33:28 PM , Rating: 3
Hey, at least we now know what conficker's payload was!


By geekfool on 5/1/2009 1:36:43 PM , Rating: 5
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, or just stupid.


By Dianoda on 5/1/2009 1:46:37 PM , Rating: 5
Did you consider the possibility he was being both?


By trajan on 5/1/2009 1:52:51 PM , Rating: 1
^^


By iAURA on 5/1/2009 4:22:07 PM , Rating: 2
The more people getting interested in Macs, the more you'll have to start worrying about viruses.


By graynote on 5/5/2009 3:35:48 AM , Rating: 2
Ah, no worries then, apparently.

:)


By jlips6 on 5/3/2009 11:26:56 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think there is any possible way this could be anything but sarcasm... Is there?


By daInvincibleGama on 5/1/2009 8:58:42 PM , Rating: 1
Don't feed the trolls.


By trajan on 5/1/2009 11:08:40 PM , Rating: 2
There's nothing wrong with a little topical humor.


The prices should be kept high.
By reader1 on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: The prices should be kept high.
By General Disturbance on 5/1/2009 1:28:52 PM , Rating: 2
Probably the only post you've ever written that made me laugh, and not roll my eyes.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By General Disturbance on 5/1/2009 1:33:08 PM , Rating: 2
Gotta love the spray bottle for the cat and the tub of Vaseline...


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By hlper on 5/1/2009 1:39:39 PM , Rating: 4
Curse you for making me look closer at that picture ;-)


By anotherdude on 5/1/2009 4:37:24 PM , Rating: 3
The Vaseline is to keep his thighs rubbing together when he walks from catching his pants on fire.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By munky on 5/1/2009 3:33:08 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, because Apple products are really "fashion gadgets", which only appeal to stupid rich iTools who see their neighbor's gayPod and go "Oooh, shiny! I want one too, so I can be cool just like all the other Apple users! I also want that Slow Ugly Vehicle because all my friends think it's cool!"


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The prices should be kept high.
By munky on 5/1/2009 3:45:15 PM , Rating: 2
I only use a $350 smartphone that - get this - plays music wirelessly via bluetooth, can copy&paste, doesn't require hacking to use however I want, and best of all - doesn't come with a 2year contract that would otherwise cost me over $1000.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/2009 3:49:48 PM , Rating: 1
In a couple of months this will be irrelevant. Unless Apple postpones iPhone 3.0 launch further from June as rumored.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By munky on 5/1/2009 3:54:17 PM , Rating: 2
Too bad you had to wait a whole year after shelling out hundreds of dollars on the phone to get the features I had all along. And you still can't use it however you want without hacking.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/2009 4:05:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
you still can't use it however you want without hacking
You still can't use your car however you want without opening the hood and tuning it up/removing the electronic speed limiter/etc.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By sprockkets on 5/1/2009 4:38:46 PM , Rating: 2
But Mazda didn't lock my hood shut, idiot.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The prices should be kept high.
By sprockkets on 5/1/2009 4:54:55 PM , Rating: 5
They didn't? They don't have remote app killing? They don't enforce DRM on their apps? They don't censure apps they deem "tasteless"? They don't issue DMCA takedowns on sites on how to hack an iphone?

Last time I checked, Mazda didn't sue anyone on how to upgrade the ECM on their vehicles, remotely check on their cars to see if they were "hacked", or cause my electrical system to fry since I changed out my stereo, aka bricked iphones when they were firmware upgraded

And btw, Mazda sells performace parts. Where is apple doing that for you?


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The prices should be kept high.
By sprockkets on 5/1/2009 5:59:57 PM , Rating: 2
What do you mean, post on Mazda?

You still haven't answered the question: Mazda encourages performance, Apple doesn't. Mazda sells cold air intakes and performance mufflers, suspensions and other items to enhance performance, and doesn't care who installs it, so your argument makes no sense.

When is the last time someone wanted to disable air bag controls anyhow?


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/2009 6:35:45 PM , Rating: 1
I mean if somebody starts posting information about how to hack some product the company didn't intend to be hacked (such as an airbag or a smartphone or something else) then the company has all the rights to fight back.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By quiksilvr on 5/1/2009 7:54:48 PM , Rating: 2
What the hell IS it with you and comparing things to cars? I mean don't get me wrong I like cars but still, use some different analogies.

Yes you can hack you iPhone, yes you can hack your car to disable the airbags, speed limiter and muffler. His point was that he didn't have to do anything ILLEGAL to get it done on his phone in the first place!

God you ramble on and on just to win, its getting f*cking stupid!


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/2009 8:05:02 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
he didn't have to do anything ILLEGAL to get it done on his phone
Isn't running on a road with disabled safety features like seatbelts considered illegal too?


By daInvincibleGama on 5/1/2009 9:09:31 PM , Rating: 2
P.S. When's the last time a car company issued a DMCA notice?


By quiksilvr on 5/2/2009 4:12:36 AM , Rating: 2
God you're a moron. I literally feel my intelligence oozing from my brain the more I try to get through your thick skull and realizing there's nothing there.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By daInvincibleGama on 5/1/2009 9:08:39 PM , Rating: 2
Yes. Any aftermarket mods are no longer the responsibility of car company, and if you were into cars at all, you would know that they actually don't care about what you do to your speed limiter or airbag or muffler. Look up how to remove the speed limit on the ECU online and you will probably find entire ECU profiles that remove the speed limit and also have more aggressive engine timing.

The government, on the other hand, might care because you are using public roads. Who removes airbags other than in a track car, anyway?


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 4:55:23 AM , Rating: 2
Yes.


By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 5:01:25 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, this thing made it look like I responded to a different post. This was meant to go with Pirks post on people posting info to disable features on cars.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By fifthlake on 5/1/2009 5:37:50 PM , Rating: 2
You really shouldn’t try to argue with an idiot. He will only drag you down to his level and beat you up with experience.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The prices should be kept high.
By fifthlake on 5/1/2009 6:11:07 PM , Rating: 2
Umm, what? I wasn’t replying to sprockkets, I was replying to...Damn! I should listen to my own advice


By sprockkets on 5/1/2009 6:37:00 PM , Rating: 2
You can't out-argue an AS person.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The prices should be kept high.
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:50:50 AM , Rating: 2
Yes it is good advice. Otherwise he'd get sucked in and sink to your level of arguing a topic in which you have already lost.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/3/2009 12:16:06 PM , Rating: 2
You mean I already won by posting http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=15024... that nobody had balls to answer honestly. Your return to personal attacks doesn't count. It's just the proof that you are out of arguments just like all the other Winzealots here :P


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:25:57 PM , Rating: 2
I honestly don't see your point, You've won nothing. Nobody has the balls to answer? Try nobody cares less to answer.

The OP's point was that his phone has features that the iPhone currently doesn't. You obviously can't get that through your thick skull, so you have to twist the part he mentioned about hacking, bringing in car and MS analogies and completely extrapolationg the phole point out of proportion, as usual Pirks' style.

Out of arguments? If I was I'd leave it at that, unlike you who has to twist everything that is said because you have to prove that you're right, but you're only right to yourself, everyone else sees you for the idiot you are.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/3/2009 6:47:07 PM , Rating: 1
The OP's point was -> "Apple products are really "fashion gadgets", which only appeal to stupid rich iTools" <- you're just too busy attacking me to notice the truth. Dumb zealot, like the others.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By themaster08 on 5/3/2009 6:53:36 PM , Rating: 2
And you're too busy proving your self-righteousness you've also completely gone off-topic from the OP.

At least my post had relevance to what had been said, unlike yours which was debating hacking in general, which wasn't even a point in the first place, let alone the point.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/4/2009 12:26:26 AM , Rating: 2
You didn't notice that munky started this idiotic topic about hacking, not me? Why? Because you're blind, fanatical, too afraid to see the truth or for some other reason?


By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 5:09:17 AM , Rating: 2
And you don't realize that it does not matter who started it, just like with most things. You do however feel you must be right about every post you make though.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By themaster08 on 5/4/2009 5:54:14 AM , Rating: 2
Wrong. I'm perfectly aware of what was said.

quote:
Too bad you had to wait a whole year after shelling out hundreds of dollars on the phone to get the features I had all along. And you still can't use it however you want without hacking.

You extrapolated the hacking part of this statement to your wits end because you so conveniently missed the bigger point.

Now I wonder, who's afraid of the truth?


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/4/2009 2:00:33 PM , Rating: 2
Which truth? If I ever owned an iPhone I'd argue with you but how can I wait for a product if I don't own one and probably never will 'cause I don't need a smartphone in the first place? Are you guys total idiots or what?

I just said that iPhone seriously kicked ass and was sold in droves even without all those minor features you're so crazy about. Then I said that even these "features" you were dying for won't matter once iPhone 3.0 is out. That's it. Then you zealots started to babble about me waiting for something. Lame, guys, L-A-M-E.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By themaster08 on 5/4/2009 2:22:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Which truth?

The truth that you entirely went off on a tangent about hacking, further trying to prove your self-righteousness by feeling the need to win an argument regardless of the topic.

quote:
If I ever owned an iPhone I'd argue with you

Nor do you own a Mac, but you sure as hell argue with eveyone about them.
Regardless to whether you own one or not, that wasn't the point. Perhaps you took what was said too literally.

quote:
without all those minor features you're so crazy about.

I never even expressed an opinion on these features, let alone be crazy about them.

quote:
Then I said that even these "features" you were dying for won't matter once iPhone 3.0 is out.

This was the entire point. These features are readily available in 99.9% of smartphones, whilst iPhone users have had to wait.

quote:
Lame, guys, L-A-M-E.

What's LAME is that you've contradicted yourself, constantly defending a product you don't even own, then coming out with this:-
quote:
If I ever owned an iPhone I'd argue with you


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/4/2009 2:44:39 PM , Rating: 2
One doesn't have to own an iPhone to ridicule obviously idiotic points made about it. Such as munky made above.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 6:24:57 PM , Rating: 2
What idiotic points? That it's not as good as real smartphones? Only two reasons why it sold was the Apple App Store, which I would say isn't a very good reason since they limit what apps can be put up on the store but that is quite subjective, and the touchscreen. Neither of those seem a very good reason. The iPhone 3.0 may put it closer to other, and might I add older, smartphones, but that's also hardly a reason to use it.

Personally I have a phone that's also a video player (though the small screen sucks), a very good MP3 Player, and a great digital camera. Instead of getting 3 different devices I got one that cost me less than $300 including shipping. Ohh, and that was for an unlocked phone with no contract. Other than a smaller screen, no WiFi, and no apps it can do all the iPhone does and is better at it.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/4/2009 8:12:53 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
What idiotic points?
"Apple products are really fashion gadgets, which only appeal to stupid rich iTools"
quote:
Other than a smaller screen, no WiFi, and no apps it can do all the iPhone does and is better at it
Other than ICE engine, four wheels and a crash proof metal body my bicycle can do all the car does and is better at it.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 9:03:53 PM , Rating: 2
First off, that was an opinion, not a point. It's impossible to argue an opinion so please don't try.

Secondly, since the engine/motor is what makes a car you can't really take it out. Not to mention a crash proof, which is arguable, metal body is very useful. They also come standard on ALL cars and not just a select few. The apps would have been a better argument. Some of them are cool, but most I can find a work-a-round for if I really want them. Some like GPS I can't though, but I've never needed GPS. That's a personal preference. A smaller screen doesn't prevent me from doing anything. WiFi would be nice, but 3G isn't exactly useless. Far more likely to be running that most of the time anyway. Meaning you'll need the data plan regardless, unless you want to spend a fortune.

And please, can you find some other analogy. These car analogies are getting really annoying.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/4/2009 9:57:07 PM , Rating: 2
What would you like the car to be replaced with?


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Alexstarfire on 5/5/2009 4:46:45 AM , Rating: 2
Something that fits better. A car isn't a universal analogy.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/5/2009 12:40:21 PM , Rating: 2
What is a universal analogy then?


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Alexstarfire on 5/5/2009 1:55:55 PM , Rating: 2
There isn't one. If there was that would mean everything in the universe is basically the same.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/5/2009 4:05:04 PM , Rating: 2
Then I'll continue using cars 'cause they're the closest thing I can think of ;)


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By bigboxes on 5/1/2009 7:57:59 PM , Rating: 2
Uh, the REAL cost of an i(diot)Phone is more than $199. Think about it genius and tell me if you can do without the internet until you get home or to work.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/2009 8:10:40 PM , Rating: 1
Yes I can. What is the "REAL" cost btw?


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By bigboxes on 5/1/2009 9:40:02 PM , Rating: 2
How much is "service" each month on these iPhones? Now, you can answer the question.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 5:19:54 AM , Rating: 2
Well, according to the AT&T website it's $129.99 for totally unlimited service http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/spe... while the same service, from what I can tell anyway, on Verizon is just $69.99 to $79.99 depending on if you want some specific Verizon services, http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/splash/plansing... Of course this can vary by location, but this is specific to me. I didn't bother looking at other places since I found one much cheaper already.

And BTW, this $199 smartphone, if you really want to call it that, you speak of is only after a 2-year contract. There are other true smartphones to be had that are less, of course there are many that are much higher as well.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/4/2009 2:04:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
there are many that are much higher as well
Thanks for proving that munky is a liar.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 6:30:50 PM , Rating: 2
It really doesn't prove anything as the smartphones that cost much are generally of much better quality and features. It'd be like comparing like comparing a netbook and a laptop of equal size, so that the size isn't a factor anymore. The laptop is obviously going to cost more, but it's got a ton more features.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/4/2009 6:54:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the smartphones that cost much are generally of much better quality and features
and "only appeal to stupid rich iTools" (C) munky :)))


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 9:07:14 PM , Rating: 2
That's an opinion. Hard to call him a liar on an opinion.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/5/2009 4:14:28 PM , Rating: 2
My opinion is that he's a liar cause he lies when he states his opinion :) Hard to call me up on my opinion, eh? :)


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By themaster08 on 5/6/2009 7:20:32 AM , Rating: 2
You see that's where you're wrong.

quote:
he lies when he states his opinion :)

This is not your opinion, this is your judgement, so you can be called up on it.

Perhaps you should take a look at this so you don't get confused in future:-

http://roopscoop.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/opinion-...


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By Pirks on 5/6/2009 11:59:42 AM , Rating: 2
I can easily defend my judgement so it's ok to call me up on it.


RE: The prices should be kept high.
By gucio69 on 5/1/2009 7:44:51 PM , Rating: 2
=:o

How did you get my picture?!?!?!?!


By quiksilvr on 5/1/2009 7:56:05 PM , Rating: 2
You're kinda cute. What's your number? ;)


By eddieroolz on 5/2/2009 7:25:37 AM , Rating: 1
...aaaand Mac users will forever be associated with this:

http://blog.capstrat.com/elements/media/article_im...

http://www.techamok.com/pics/08/nov/mac.jpg

that too.


You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
By mattclary on 5/1/2009 1:32:04 PM , Rating: 5
I think the man said it already, right?

quote:
As CEO Steve Jobs put it, "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."


;)


By SpaceJumper on 5/1/2009 1:40:21 PM , Rating: 3
Because of the high Apple profit margin, Mac mini is a piece of junk as Steve Jobs stated. So it is actually a $300 computer.


By Leomania on 5/1/2009 2:39:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
TextBecause of the high Apple profit margin, Mac mini is a piece of junk as Steve Jobs stated.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree on your "piece of junk" assessment. I have owned two of these (purchased at a discount, to be sure) and they are sweet little machines. I wouldn't pay regular price for them either, as my "form over function" coefficient isn't high enough for that. But being overpriced does not equate with junk status.


RE: You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
By afkrotch on 5/1/2009 2:48:39 PM , Rating: 3
$99 dollars must get you a lot of quality. That or an Apple logo that takes it above "a piece of junk" somehow.


RE: You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: -1
By DigitalFreak on 5/1/2009 3:02:29 PM , Rating: 5
Damn, I thought you died. Had a party and everything.


By Yaron on 5/1/2009 4:36:23 PM , Rating: 3
LOL!
:D

I almost spit my coffee on the screen...


By MrPeabody on 5/1/2009 3:10:29 PM , Rating: 2
Performance vs. Volume? That's kind of an odd benchmark. I'm not sure I've seen any ads touting this particular statistic.

My work PC is 4" x 13" x 13". That's 676 cubic inches. It's a 2.66 gigahertz machine. So by this benchmark, my computer gets about 3.9 megahertz per cubic inch.

Is that good?


RE: You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
By MrPeabody on 5/1/2009 3:21:50 PM , Rating: 3
My apologies; I tend to get my units mixed up sometimes. What unit of measure were you using for performance?


RE: You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
By afkrotch on 5/1/2009 3:56:02 PM , Rating: 2
When the procs are the same core, they go by mhz.


RE: You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
By afkrotch on 5/1/2009 5:17:31 PM , Rating: 2
If you're testing the procs, then you can look right on top of the heatspreader. It'll have information on the proc. From there, you can figure out what core it is. You can also install CPU-Z and find out what core it is.


RE: You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/1/09, Rating: 0
By MrPeabody on 5/1/2009 7:08:25 PM , Rating: 3
I kind of feel like I need to say something here, but for the life of me I've no idea where you are vis-à-vis the conversation at this point.


By Pirks on 5/1/2009 7:24:31 PM , Rating: 2
I'm talking to afkrotch about your CPU at this point.


By MrPeabody on 5/1/2009 4:00:44 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I can hardly put any of that on my work PC. But if application performance is what you're looking for, I suppose I can mock something up.

So now I have a little test program that writes a million bytes to a file. I've run it a number of times, and it looks like it takes an average of about 22 milliseconds to run. Roughly, that's 45455 write operations per millisecond.

So call it 67 write operations per millisecond per cubic inch.

Is that good?


RE: You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/1/2009 4:15:24 PM , Rating: 2
Depends on what your test shows on Mini.


By MrPeabody on 5/1/2009 4:32:45 PM , Rating: 3
Okay. So you're saying that I can tell the relative worth of a computer by measuring the speed of my process and comparing it to the computer's number of cubic inches?

All right. Next question: Does the size of the monitor count?


RE: You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/1/2009 4:40:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I can tell the relative worth of a computer by measuring the speed of my process and comparing it to the computer's number of cubic inches?
Why do you think laptops cost more than the same performance desktop machines in larger cases?
quote:
Does the size of the monitor count?
Count for what? If you mean "count for the relative price/value comparison" then yes it does.


By afkrotch on 5/1/2009 5:26:00 PM , Rating: 2
More is integrated into a laptop. Monitor, keyboard, touchpad, cardbus/express card, battery, optical drive, wireless, fingerprint reader, mic, webcam, so on and so forth.

To get everything/most of everything that's integrated into a laptop, you're usually blowing $350+ dollars just for an enthusiast mobo. Granted you get a lot of overclocking features, that are missing from a laptop, but they're the only ones with many of the features built into a laptop. Still lack mic, webcam, fingerprint reader.

There is a small premium for smaller size, but it's not a huge markup.


By Pirks on 5/1/2009 5:51:37 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
There is a small premium for smaller size
You call extra $1000 I paid for my gamebook to get an equivalent performance and specs compared to cheap desktop gaming box a "small premium"? Put down the crack pipe!


By MrPeabody on 5/1/2009 6:59:23 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure why you thought I meant "Price/Value". I thought we were talking "Performance/Volume".

Now I'm confused. Are you saying a smaller monitor makes for a better computer? That doesn't seem right, somehow.


By Pirks on 5/1/2009 7:18:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I thought we were talking "Performance/Volume"
To consider monitor we'll have to compare your PC to iMac.
quote:
smaller monitor makes for a better computer?
Yes if another computer has the same small monitor and specs but larger case.


By eddieroolz on 5/2/2009 7:21:14 AM , Rating: 2
You guys have no idea how hard I'm laughing reading this.

By the way, nice way to measure performance, Pirks.


By Pirks on 5/2/2009 12:35:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
nice way to measure performance
Say thanks to Anand.


By Alexstarfire on 5/4/2009 5:26:33 AM , Rating: 1
That makes no sense.


RE: You don’t have a PC in the $600 range? Really?
By Pirks on 5/5/2009 12:50:01 PM , Rating: 2
Why?


By Alexstarfire on 5/5/2009 2:04:11 PM , Rating: 2
Because the size/volume of the case has little to do with performance. You can stick your parts in a miniATX if it'll make you feel better, but all you're going to have is components that won't have the features of my ATX board and an inflated price. I mean if you can't afford the space then you don't have a choice, but most people have plenty of space for a desktop computer.

Even my monstrous Alienware case has more than enough room to fit wherever I want it. Although in some places it wouldn't be very functional, like behind our TV stand. Of course in that room even a miniATX or a MacMini wouldn't fit since all the space is literally being used up. Could put it behind the door I suppose. But I digress.

Any logic behind this bizarre ratio you came up with?


By Pirks on 5/6/2009 12:21:57 PM , Rating: 2
If this ratio were bizarre all the notebook makers wouldn't strive to make notebooks smaller while at the same time giving them as much performance as possible.


By SpaceJumper on 5/3/2009 10:15:20 AM , Rating: 1
Your are right about the $99. It look like any other computers inside and uses SODIMM for memory.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davipt/192937575/
According to specifications, it does not worth $600.
It has a very very nice case. I could say, Apple lovers are paying $300 for the case.


By Pirks on 5/3/2009 12:44:03 PM , Rating: 2
Who's ass did you pull your "$300" figure from? :o)


By loopandjump on 5/3/2009 10:00:23 PM , Rating: 1
My girlfriend iMac 20" alu 2.4Ghz with 4G of Ram(I put in 4Gig from 1Gig it came with) can't play the 1080p I d.l from internet. She got it from Best Buy around March for $1199Can b4 tax (that was reduced $100!).
Come on Apple, that was too over price for that machine! It's time to become realistic now. I'll never buy any Mac if the price still way more what it should worth.


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