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Windows 8 UI

Windows 7  (Source: istartedsomething.com)

Windows XP  (Source: crunchbase.com)
As end of life support nears for XP users, the question is whether to upgrade to Windows 7 or Windows 8

So, you're still running Windows XP? Who can blame you -- it's still regarded as one of the most user-friendly operating systems in recent Windows history. But with Windows 8 on the way, the question of whether to upgrade is on the minds of many XP users who will soon see the end of support for their systems.

For those who are looking to upgrade, there's another crucial question to ask: Windows 7 or Windows 8? While Windows 8 may look like the obvious answer because it's new, a recent report from InfoWorld reminds us that newer isn't always better.

The InfoWorld report notes that Windows 8 is a completely different world from Windows XP -- making the jump would be difficult for many. Also, Windows 7 carries a lot of the great features found in Windows 8 without dealing with the new user interface (which has been called a disaster by many in the tech world).
 
That's why some are calling Windows 7 the new Windows XP -- it's a great OS that can stand the test of time (remember when Vista was released after XP, but everyone hated it and went back to XP? That could be the case with Windows 7 and 8, where the new guy in town isn't necessarily best).

A huge issue is the new user interface in Windows 8. Instead of the typical desktop with the Start menu and folder icons that we're all used to, Windows 8 has adopted colorful tiles and an entirely new Start menu. This was once called the Metro UI, but after threats of being sued by German company Metro AG, Microsoft has decided to change the name.

The main issue is that Windows 8 is really meant for mobile devices. The huge tiles and navigation will look great on smartphones and tablets, but for businesses and most work-related purposes, it's a pain. This is mainly because of a lot of little annoyances, like the methods for window management, switching between "Metro" apps, not-so-great email and message apps, the useless Charms bar, and the fact that core apps for basic OS functionality are "Metro" only.

Windows 7 has a ton of great features, like enhanced security via the Action Center and parental controls; networking features like HomeGroups and simple wireless connectivity; PowerShell for system management; faster boot and recovery from sleep/hibernation; ReadyBoost for low memory situations, and a longer battery life on laptops.

However, the InfoWorld report will tell you that Windows 8 isn't all bad. In fact, Windows 8 has revved up versions of Windows 7's greatest attributes, such as picture passwords for security and PowerShell Version 3. But the main reason Windows 7 will likely become the new Windows XP is because of ease-of-use. It's user friendly like XP with added features and performance without the new UI to drive you crazy.

For those of you who are still unsure, Windows XP won't see it's end of life for support until April 2014, so you have some time. But if plunging into Windows 8 is the final choice, it'll be available October 26.

Source: InfoWorld


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Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/23/2012 10:21:50 PM , Rating: 5
You get a lot of crap here, but this is probably the most unbiased and solid article on Windows 8 I've seen on Daily Tech. I especially like how you cut through the rhetoric here and just lay out the truth:

quote:
The main issue is that Windows 8 is really meant for mobile devices. The huge tiles and navigation will look great on smartphones and tablets, but for businesses and most work-related purposes, it's a pain. This is mainly because of a lot of little annoyances, like the methods for window management, switching between "Metro" apps, not-so-great email and message apps, the useless Charms bar, and the fact that core apps for basic OS functionality are "Metro" only.


Windows 8 is simply not optimized for the desktop, and despite fanboi's rushing to it's defense, this cannot be overstated.




RE: Tiffany
By Amedean on 8/23/2012 10:26:11 PM , Rating: 5
This is a good article :)


RE: Tiffany
By Samus on 8/24/2012 1:11:20 AM , Rating: 4
Although I've noticed Aero is removed from the RTM build, it's easy to add back using the beta shell files (theme, dll's, etc.)

I suspect Microsoft is going to crack under pressure and release a "Legacy Interface Pack" for Windows 8. If they're smart, they'll include it in retail boxes and via free download, and eventually integrate it into a service pack.

Metro is cool but like just about all of us in IT, we don't see many people saying "ohh cool a whole new interface for me to learn."

Might as well just start giving people OSX.


RE: Tiffany
By althaz on 8/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Tiffany
By RufusM on 8/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Tiffany
By crimson117 on 8/24/2012 10:31:32 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Desktop PCs are on their way out, except for the enthusiast and high-end user market, which is quite small compared to the rest of Windows users.
Don't forget the sizable business-user market. The desk/cubicle is not going away any time soon, and if I'm sitting at a desk I want a keyboard, mouse, and a nice big monitor; not some portable tablet with colorful touch buttons on the OS.


RE: Tiffany
By RufusM on 8/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Tiffany
By euclidean on 8/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Tiffany
By Netscorer on 8/24/2012 10:12:19 AM , Rating: 1
While I still may disagree with your assessment of Windows 8 desktop UI usefulness, I have added a vote to your reply. Your opinion is sincere, logical and not trying to troll anyone. This whole rating system on these forums is really broken as only the popular replies survive the scrutiny of the mass.


RE: Tiffany
By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 8/24/2012 11:17:48 AM , Rating: 5
Be all that as it may be, a closed-off app store integrated directly into the operating system has no place on a quote-unquote "real" computer. I'm sure that Windows 8 is full of little improvements, but when I buy an operating system, it sure as heck shouldn't be telling me that I'm not "allowed" to do something with my computer that it is otherwise perfectly capable of doing. It isn't the place of the OS to do that; the purpose of the OS should be exposing as much functionality as possible, period.

That may arguably be acceptable on a phone or inexpensive tablet (I'd likely buy a Surface RT if it really does land at $199 with no strings attached, for instance) but on a desktop or laptop (or even an expensive tablet), it's a no-go for me. The only reason I'll spend money on Windows 8 is as a business investment, so that I can develop "Metro" applications. As a primary OS on any of my machines...yeah, that's not happening.


RE: Tiffany
By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 8/24/2012 12:44:13 PM , Rating: 5
Wow, tough crowd; downranked already. I guess if people have been conditioned to believe that it's okay to cede control of their computing devices to others, as they do with their iPads and all that, then Windows 8 will do fine in the market.


RE: Tiffany
By xti on 8/24/2012 7:10:56 PM , Rating: 2
is it making your toaster attack you?


RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Tiffany
By ArcsinZ on 8/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 5:56:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
WinRT (read, ARM ONLY) has the closed app store. Windows 8 itself will still allow you to download and install any program you want with no restrictions.
Well, Reclaimer is too dumb to understand such an obvious thing. That's one of the many things that make me happy about Win8 release - see who trolls it and you immediately can measure person's intellect by observing whether he trolls Win8 or not.
quote:
you think this article is "unbiased" only because you agree with it
Word!


RE: Tiffany
By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 8/24/2012 6:02:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because he is 100% wrong. WinRT (read, ARM ONLY) has the closed app store. Windows 8 itself will still allow you to download and install any program you want with no restrictions. Unless you count the "Win8 UI" apps only being allowed through the store as a restriction. But on a desktop you won't be using the Win8 UI anyway, because you'll be doing all of your work in the traditional desktop UI. So quit spreading false info.

It is certainly true that you can, at present, continue to run "legacy" Windows applications in the same manner that you did in Windows 7 (minus the start menu, which doesn't bother me all that much, but I know some people are justifiably upset about that whole thing). But you are foolish to believe that Microsoft is after anything except the eventual migration of all applications into the closed "Metro" framework.

And frankly, even if they are never able to completely pull off this plan of theirs, that doesn't change the fact that half (Microsoft hopes the dominant half) of the operating system is locked down. That's 50% too much. Microsoft shouldn't be attempting to exercise that level of control over someone's personal computer.

Visual Studio Express 2012 doesn't allow you to make desktop apps. That's telling. They want everything to be Metro, Metro, Metro. And the idea that you have to have permission from Microsoft to write a program for/on your own computer? I don't care if we're just talking Metro apps, and Microsoft swears on Dennis Ritchie's grave that they'll never ever take the "legacy Desktop app" away (cross their hearts and hope to die). That, to me, is completely unacceptable. To have a machine that can do something, and then to be told that I may not do something...no. Just no.


RE: Tiffany
By ArcsinZ on 8/24/2012 6:41:20 PM , Rating: 2
Here is a quote from the Visual Studio team blog:

quote:
•If you want the free Visual Studio Express 2012 products, or free trial versions of Visual Studio 2012, you can download them from here. Visual Studio Express for Windows 8, Visual Studio Express for Web, and Team Foundation Server Express are all now available. Express for Windows Phone and Express for Windows Desktop will be available later this fall.


Here is the URL:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/somasegar/archive/2012/08/...

They are releasing a version of VS2012 Express Desktop. Currently the only available version is for Metro, however the Desktop and Phone are coming. Again, all misinformation. People who want things to be mad about putting out a bunch of lies to prove why they are mad. They confirmed early on in the Beta of VS 11 that Desktop would be supported.

As for whether or not I am foolish, I've learned not to count my chickens before they hatch. You can get all worked up about things that haven't happened all you want, I'm going to deal with the real world and what is happening currently. I'll deal with the future when it comes.


RE: Tiffany
By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 8/24/2012 7:07:11 PM , Rating: 2
Guh bluh well, that's what I get for posting in a hurry from work and not seeking out a second source for something I just read. Oh well...

That being said, though, you haven't actually refuted anything else that I said. If you're comfortable trusting Microsoft to maintain the openness of a system that they've already halfway closed down, and if you're content to concede a not-insignificant degree of control of your personal computer, be my guest.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2012 8:34:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple's iOS ecosystem is totally closed and this is why Apple is making such insane profits out of it.


Last time I checked iOS was only for mobile devices. There are things you can do with a mobile OS that you can't do with desktop OS's. There are things people are willing to compromise on that they are NOT accustomed to having to do on their PC's.

We understand that Microsoft is chasing the big money here. I don't care about that! Hell I've been giving them my money since I started earning it. What do you think Pirks? We woke up one day and decided to 'hate' Microsoft? Calling me "anti-MS" is the dumbest thing you've said today, and that's saying a lot.

quote:
Of course MS wants to close its ecosystems now, why would ANYONE pass on the chance to make extra XXX billions in profit by closing their ecosystem?


Yes and Microsoft has proven they are utterly clueless how to compete with iOS or Android in the mobile space. So what gives you the idea that bringing that same strategy to the Windows OS, which has remained relatively free of drastic changes and monstrously profitable, is a great idea?

quote:
MS goes where consumers want it to go, and consumers HAVE VOTED ALREADY with their wallets FOR CLOSED ecosystems


On the PC? Really? Last time I checked every closed ecosystem for the desktop PC has failed horribly. Apple was the only one who could even make it work, and even that ecosystem never could compete with Windows in profits and market share.

Windows 7 was the highest grossing, and fastest selling computer operating system of ALL TIME Pirks. It also had the most pre-orders all time of any OS before it. Those are your consumers voting with their wallets. You're creating a fantasy world where because mobile devices are profitable, people want that on their PC's.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/25/2012 12:56:50 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Last time I checked iOS was only for mobile devices
An iOS specific thing called Launchpad that's been added to OS X recently has proven you wrong. Give up.
quote:
Microsoft has proven they are utterly clueless how to compete with iOS or Android in the mobile space
Their new OS, WP8, has merged best traits of iOS (smooth, elegant, consistent and easy to use UI) with best traits of Android (support for a lot of high end third party hardware), this strategy is clueless only for uneducated trolls like you.
quote:
So what gives you the idea that bringing that same strategy to the Windows OS, which has remained relatively free of drastic changes and monstrously profitable, is a great idea?
The fact that desktop is dying and the world is going mobile, plus the fact that Windows division posted the lack of any decent growth in the past few quarters. Good thing MS has noticed this keyboardmouse-desktop-to-mobile-touchscreen global migration trend and good thing they reacted fast by adding touch layer called Metro on top of old desktop Windows, to replace the old desktop in some distant future and coexist with it for the next few years while the library of Metro apps is growing and maturing.
quote:
every closed ecosystem for the desktop PC has failed horribly
Gabe Newell with his Steam is laughing hard at your idiocy. Are you even remotely serious? LOL :))) What a clown. Do you even know what is Steam? What rock have you been sleeping under in the past 5 years? JeezMicrosoft has proven they are utterly clueless how to compete with iOS or Android in the mobile space.
quote:
Apple was the only one who could even make it work, and even that ecosystem never could compete with Windows in profits and market share
The fact that people went mobile makes your desktop related argument uesless. Apple lost the legacy dekstop market and instead they grabbed much bigger market - mobile, where their profits are WAY HIGHER than Microsoft's. Good thing MS has noticed it at last and mounting a counteroffensive, by dropping support of the dead desktop infested with thousands and thousands of low-profit poor whining oldfags like you or Motoman or whoever else here who trolls Win8. You guys are very poor market for MS since Apple does not sell to YOU, Apple sells to MUCH MORE profitable segment of the marget, this is why MS is dropping you poor bastards :P Tough luck, I know, but it's just business. Same as the gaming that moved from PC to consoles in a big way - not because PCs are worse gaming platform, but because there are much more profitable platforms than PC for games, even though they are technically inferior.
quote:
Windows 7 was the highest grossing, and fastest selling computer operating system of ALL TIME
Ya I know man I know, these were the good times, Microsoft definitely would LOVE to see PC desktop NOT dying and their Windows division profits NOT stagnating. These good times, if they were continuing now, would allow MS to not even start thinking about mobile revolution, touch and Metro. But alas, such is life - good times are over, the world is moved on, and MS is simply trying to catch up as fast as they can. You should praise them for the effort but you being clueless and illiterate, not knowing even basics - of course you can't grow up, yet. Maybe you will, later. I was just like you a few years ago, hehe.


RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/25/2012 1:20:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
An iOS specific thing called Launchpad that's been added to OS X recently has proven you wrong. Give up.


Pirks that does not make OSX iOS. It's simply a UI tweek.

Do you understand what I said? I said "there's a reason Apple used iOS for mobile devices, not OSX". Stop attempting to make two completely different OS's the same. They are NOT the same. Apple went with a completely different strategy for their mobile devices than Windows is going. And it worked out better than MS's approach.

God I'm stick of you moving the goalposts and comparing Apples to oranges and making straw men in order to knock them down. Stick with the argument, don't make up new ones.

quote:
Their new OS, WP8, has merged best traits of iOS (smooth, elegant, consistent and easy to use UI) with best traits of Android (support for a lot of high end third party hardware), this strategy is clueless only for uneducated trolls like you.


Then I guess EVERYONE is an uneducated "troll", because their market share sucks. People aren't buying Windows Phone, no matter how great you say it is.

quote:
Gabe Newell with his Steam is laughing hard at your idiocy.


SIGH... ANOTHER straw man. I think it's pretty damn clear the context was on OS/Hardware ecosystems. Steam is neither, it's simply a content delivery service. Wtf? Just STOP with the crazy left field attempts to slam me and actually debate the argument.

That's it, this is over. You're just too annoying to deal with at this hour.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/25/2012 2:06:13 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
It's simply a UI tweek
So then Metro is the same, call it a UI tweak and give up. Why not? If you use just your old beloved desktop apps and games, and you practically never see Metro, why Metro is more than alien UI tweak for you? I don't get this.
quote:
They are NOT the same
Same is true for WinRT, WP8 and Win8, they are NOT the same. WP8 and WinRT do not have anything resembling desktop mode with support for all the legacy Windows apps. If you think that WP8, WinRT and Win8 are exact same clones of each other you need a head check and brain damage fix. They are NOT clones, they just use similar UI concepts. JUST LIKE OS X LAUNCHPAD USES THE SIMILAR UI CONCEPT AS IOS. You have mental issues, this is why you can't see the obvious. Wake up already!
quote:
because their market share sucks
Of course WP8 market share sucks, given that its not released yet :))) What a genius eh :))) haha
quote:
the context was on OS/Hardware ecosystems
Even in this context there is Microsoft Xbox, totally closed ecosystem which is profitable and healthy right now. You lost your argument, troll. Bye :P


RE: Tiffany
By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 8/24/2012 8:54:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple's iOS ecosystem is totally closed and this is why Apple is making such insane profits out of it. MS wants its piece of the pie too, and they have realized that people (not geeks like DT readers but common folk from the street) LOVE closed ecosystems and they PAY a lot of $$$ to the owners of such ecosystems. Of course MS wants to close its ecosystems now, why would ANYONE pass on the chance to make extra XXX billions in profit by closing their ecosystem? MS goes where consumers want it to go, and consumers HAVE VOTED ALREADY with their wallets FOR CLOSED ecosystems, and this is their vote that allowed to Apple to become the biggest computer company on the planet, I mean financially, not unit shipments wise.

I pretty much agree with you 100% here. I'm not saying that it's a bad decision for Microsoft, I'm saying it's a blow for freedom in computing, and I won't use Windows 8, and if you care about freedom in computing, you shouldn't either. If you don't care, then go to it, and good luck.
quote:
So please, don't be a dumb anti-MS troll like Reclaimer, and try to understand that MS is simply FOLLOWING THE MONEY. The moment Apple consumers start to vote with their wallets for open ecosystems similar to Windows Mobile 6.x then MS will quickly revert its policy and will open its OS again. Got it now?

Turning a debate personal is the mark of a troll, or at least the mark of a bad debater, and I had no trouble "getting it" from the very beginning. Indeed, it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to completely condemn Microsoft when I myself intend to develop paid Metro apps. But people should understand the ramifications of what Microsoft is doing here, and they should understand what they're giving up. People are arguing about losing the Start menu like that's the big change in Windows 8, when in reality it's the loss of control over your personal computer that's the true sea-change.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/25/2012 1:32:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm not saying that it's a bad decision for Microsoft, I'm saying it's a blow for freedom in computing, and I won't use Windows 8, and if you care about freedom in computing, you shouldn't either
I don't care about "freedom of computing" as long as I get quality product, quality OS, hardware and software, with pleasant experience and all. Problem is that this is not just my point of view, this is the point of view of the most profitable segment of market which feeds insane Apple's profits. It's this segment, that does not care about "freedom of computing", that is responsible for the mobile revolution and advent of closed ecosystems. Problem is that RMS, GNU and Linux guys and the opensource crowd are mostly poor so there's not much to extract from them. But the Apple users are rich and they blow thousands of dollars on expensive Apple gear. They know that Apple will not let them to have "freedom" but they all value Apple's famous user experience much more than freedom. This is a normal human reaction, I think. Only the foot eaters like RMS are wired differently, they would prefer crappy user experience if it comes with _FREEDOM_.

So don't blame me, blame the market. People don't want freedom, they pay big bucks not for freedom of Linux, or Windows Mobile 6.x, they pay big bucks for great user experience of closed Apple's ecosystems. Trust me on this man: the moment people stop buying Apple gear and start buying Linux and Windows Mobile 6.x kind of stuff with total freedom and such - MS will stop Metro immediately and will roll back to Win 7 model of total freedom. This must be obvious even for you, is it not? Hmm?
quote:
people should understand the ramifications of what Microsoft is doing here, and they should understand what they're giving up
People understood that a long time ago and this is why financially Apple is WAY ABOVE Microsoft now. It's because vast majority does not give a thing about "freedom", they value user experience much higher than that. See how simple is that? :)


RE: Tiffany
By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 8/25/2012 10:24:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't care about "freedom of computing" as long as I get quality product, quality OS, hardware and software, with pleasant experience and all.

I can agree with this point of view up to about $200, 'cause I can justify thinking of something that costs that much as a toy.
quote:
Problem is that this is not just my point of view, this is the point of view of the most profitable segment of market which feeds insane Apple's profits. It's this segment, that does not care about "freedom of computing", that is responsible for the mobile revolution and advent of closed ecosystems.

Someone less charitable than myself might use terms like "tyranny of the ignorant majority" to describe this situation. But then again, I don't think freedom is a concept well-understood by most people, anyway.
quote:
Problem is that RMS, GNU and Linux guys and the opensource crowd are mostly poor so there's not much to extract from them.

I'd love to see the data you used to come to that sweeping conclusion. But even if you are correct, being poor doesn't equate to being wrong, or stupid, or whatever.
quote:
But the Apple users are rich and they blow thousands of dollars on expensive Apple gear. They know that Apple will not let them to have "freedom" but they all value Apple's famous user experience much more than freedom.

Again, someone less inclined to be charitable would probably say, "A fool and his money are soon parted." Being rich doesn't make you "right", or smart. I've had the <cough> privilege of knowing some filthy rich Apple users and believe me, anything more complex than an offensive or defensive formation was beyond their ken.
quote:
This is a normal human reaction, I think.

Actually, history tends to show that the real "normal human reaction" is to fight against those that would take away our freedom. It's only in our modern age that so many have had that impulse beaten out of them. But then, why would people who don't take a stand for freedom in general take a stand for freedom in computing.
quote:
Only the foot eaters like RMS are wired differently, they would prefer crappy user experience if it comes with _FREEDOM_.

Again, you are making broad sweeping generalizations that I don't believe are accurate. I thought we'd finally gotten past the whole knee-jerk "Linux sucks!" thing by now. For most people, for what they use a computing device for, Linux would be a perfectly acceptable user experience.
quote:
So don't blame me, blame the market.

At first I was like, "Where did I blame you?" But then I thought about it, and I realized you actually do deserve some blame here. You try quite hard to present yourself as intelligent, as someone who has given this matter a lot of thought and who should be considered an expert on the topic. You say we should surrender to the inevitable, that lack of freedom is preferable to freedom. If you really are as smart as you think you are, you should understand that there are some real problems here. Instead, you throw up your hands and say "...blame the market. People don't want freedom..."
quote:
People don't want freedom, they pay big bucks not for freedom of Linux, or Windows Mobile 6.x, they pay big bucks for great user experience of closed Apple's ecosystems. Trust me on this man: the moment people stop buying Apple gear and start buying Linux and Windows Mobile 6.x kind of stuff with total freedom and such - MS will stop Metro immediately and will roll back to Win 7 model of total freedom. This must be obvious even for you, is it not? Hmm?

Yeah, bro; funny thing is, this was all obvious for me before you took it upon yourself to explain it to me the first time...or the second time...but, heck, feel free to explain it again, if you like.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/25/2012 1:36:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
there are some real problems here
What problems exactly? Could you elaborate please?


RE: Tiffany
By Ammohunt on 8/24/2012 7:36:56 PM , Rating: 3
I have always been a fan of Windows and have used it since its inception. In recent years I have used windows less and less for work and general computing tasks using linux as my primary work OS. The main reason I run windows at home is for games and iTunes. If I had more room I think I would build dedicated gaming rigs running widows for the wife and I and things like web surfing, chat and email on portable devices. Things are changing Operating System is getting less and less relevant as compared to function.


RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2012 8:21:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because he is 100% wrong. WinRT (read, ARM ONLY) has the closed app store. Windows 8 itself will still allow you to download and install any program you want with no restrictions.


You think I'm not aware of that? What's your point?

So half of Windows will be a clear ripoff of the Apple sales model, and half will still be "free". Well that's just great. And how long until the open aspects of Windows will be marginalized in favor of the more profitable "app store"?

The implementation of the "legacy" Desktop and how it conflicts with Metro is also horrible. Why would anyone even WANT to work in this environment? The "desktop" is now just an app. So I have to essentially open and app, to open an app. That's garbage and you know it.

Just stop pretending that Windows 8 still has a viable way to get sh#t done without Metro getting in the way.

quote:
Also, I notice you think this article is "unbiased" only because you agree with it.


It's still the truth. Look give it up, okay? I understand that you kids like the bright colors and big mindless tiles, I get that you somehow think bringing a clear touch-based UI onto the desktop is somehow a good idea because it works on your tablets, but it just flat out sucks for the desktop PC.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/25/2012 1:47:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The implementation of the "legacy" Desktop and how it conflicts with Metro is also horrible.
Lies and trolling. I'm using Win8 RTM and I know for sure now - Metro is NOT an impediment if you wanna work in desktop mode. Keep lying, illiterate troll hahaha :)))
quote:
stop pretending that Windows 8 still has a viable way to get sh#t done without Metro getting in the way
I'm using desktop apps like Office in Win8 without any issues, so your clownish behavior is pretty funny

*munch munch* I'm outta popcorn, damn. Well, I'll keep enjoying your comic show named "I hate Win8 because i like to lie and troll" tomorrow. Nite nite loser :))


RE: Tiffany
By wifiwolf on 8/26/2012 7:53:56 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. That's why I still use Windows and Linux. If I was ok with being retricted on what I can use my compuer for, probably mac os would be a better choice.


RE: Tiffany
By Ammohunt on 8/24/2012 7:21:33 PM , Rating: 2
If they released it with a legacy UI pack i would buy/reserve 4 copies today.


RE: Tiffany
By Da W on 8/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Tiffany
By NellyFromMA on 8/24/2012 11:36:08 AM , Rating: 2
The mobile segment only continues to grow. MS knows it can't simply charge exorbitant costs for licenses in mobile as it did for desktop, so it seeks to reep profits on the HW side which CLEARLY is a successful approach (see Apple).

So, no, it won't be a commercial success if you are trying to confine the comparison as Apple's to Apple's. The problem is, its not.


RE: Tiffany
By kwrzesien on 8/24/2012 1:32:03 PM , Rating: 2
Correct! You don't see any press release about how much money "iOS" is making - so that department in Apple is just a cost center. Yet it is the foundation for so much else... (iTV's are coming).


RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2012 1:47:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The mobile segment only continues to grow. MS knows it can't simply charge exorbitant costs for licenses in mobile as it did for desktop, so it seeks to reep profits on the HW side which CLEARLY is a successful approach (see Apple).


Yes except there is a reason Apple's mobile devices run iOS, not some bastardized all-in-one version of OSX.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 3:13:40 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
there is a reason Apple's mobile devices run iOS, not some bastardized all-in-one version of OSX
iOS uses same kernel and same programming language as its older bigger sibling OS X, the system libraries are very close too. This is EXACTLY the same situation with Win8, WinRT and WP8. Three different OSes that use similar UI concepts, similar libraries, same NT kernel and the same programming languages. Learn some basics please before posting your BS here, dumb troll.


RE: Tiffany
By Taft12 on 8/24/2012 4:18:29 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks, I'm on your side more often than I'm not, but you need to be careful when trying to tell someone to learn the basics. iOS and OSX' kernels are for different architectures and are completely different. Apple has strived to give developers the same API though, as MS hopes to do for the various Windows 8s. The same goes for Windows 8 vs Windows RT.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 6:46:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
iOS and OSX' kernels are for different architectures and are completely different
NT kernels for ARM and for Intel are also for different architectures, but are they different? No they aren't. Same is true for OS X and iOS. Check this out: "Darwin forms the core set of components upon which Mac OS X and iOS are based. Darwin currently includes support for the 64-bit variant of the Intel x86 processors used in the Mac as well as the 32-bit ARM processors used in the iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, and second-generation Apple TV"

So Darwin is the same componentized kernel for iOS, OS X and Apple TV, its just includes different components for different architectures. Come on Taft, you did know all about this Darwin stuff didn't you? Then why arguing with me?


RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2012 8:38:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Pirks, I'm on your side more often than I'm not


Well that's got to be the saddest statement I've seen someone make in a long time. Are we talking about the same Pirks?


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 10:54:53 PM , Rating: 2
Ya, Pirks Da Troll Pwner. I've always been like this and now it's time for me to pwn you :P I'll teach ya a lesson or two about lying and trolling MS here kiddo :)))


RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2012 8:44:46 PM , Rating: 2
Okay Pirks maybe words are too big and you need a visual aide.

This is OSX
http://www.objectfarm.org/Activities/Publications/...

This is iOS
http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/08/ios_s...

Hmmm now call me crazy, but one of these seems very optimized for the desktop PC, and one very optimized for a touch screen. I know it's confusing, but think REAL hard about the point I was making. Think about how how stupid you look making arguments about system libraries and kernel types! Wtf? I'm not talking about under the hood stuff!! It's obvious as hell I was talking about the UI design!

I wonder why Apple didn't put the same exact iOS UI onto OSX....man, it's such a mystery!!! It's racking my brain, and yours too!

Why do I want Metro on my desktop PC? I'll save you the answer, I don't. And millions of others don't want it either.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 11:06:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is OSX
No, this is OS X:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lion_Launchpad.p...

Hey, but isn't it almost EXACT REPLICA of the iOS start screen?

*grabs popcorn*

Sooo... I'm sitting back here and seriously going to enjoy you wiggling out of this, haha :)
Or you would just shut up now, and be pwned by me as usual
Har har har :))) :P Dumb tech illiterate troll, I'm going to pwn you again and again, you know why? Because you DO NOT KNOW BASICS. You have no idea about how much recent versions of OS X look alike to iOS, so excuse me while I'm educating ya tiny little troll brain ;)


RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2012 11:53:58 PM , Rating: 2
Wow I've never seen a desktop with shortcut icons before Pirks. Amazing!

Honestly maybe you still didn't get my point? Notice all the windows open on my OSX screenshot? Notice how many things you can do at once?

Now compare this to Metro please. Only an idiot would compare it to OSX Launchpad. My point still stands, iOS and OSX are two completely different OS's, no matter what you say. Go ahead and prove me wrong. Install iOS onto a Mac, have at it.

You can use all the smiley faces and childish insults you want, you're still an idiot. By the way, "pwned" stopped being cool around the year 2000.

I can't wait to see what your next straw man will be.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/25/2012 2:18:55 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Notice all the windows open on my OSX screenshot? Notice how many things you can do at once?
Did you notice how many windows could be open in Win8 desktop mode? Notice how many things you can do at once on Win8 desktop?
quote:
iOS and OSX are two completely different OS's, no matter what you say. Go ahead and prove me wrong
Win8 and WP8/WinRT are two completely different OSes because they are build for different hardware architectures and only one of them is a real desktop oriented OS with desktop mode and 100% legacy app support, the others are touch only without any desktop apps or legacy support. Go ahead and prove me wrong.
quote:
you're still an idiot
Bring it on loser, is it all you got? Come on, I thought you had some steam or real arguments left. Looks like I thought too much of you. Oh well


RE: Tiffany
By Lanister on 8/23/2012 10:59:00 PM , Rating: 5
I have reserved my opinion until I gave Win8 a fair shot and I agree, it is for touch devices with desktops being an after thought. I am one of those people who like to have the latest so I jumped on Win8 as soon as I could and I have to now force myself to use it, I keep trying thinking that I just need to learn how to use it better and to be honest my opinion did improve as I used it more and more but then it reached a point of why? What's the benefit? I feel like I am using a neutered OS. I would however love it if I could format my droid tablet and install Win8 on it, I would pay for that.

I also tried Office 2013 and it's white washed, gave me a headache after a few minutes of use. I don't know who is approving the direction of the user experience for these products but they need to be fired, I for one will not upgrade to Win8 or Office 13 in their current state.


RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2012 8:33:37 AM , Rating: 2
Why does the Metro email client look like some minimalist horribly conceived touch-screen email client? I think it's the worst email client I've ever seen on the PC. And there is NO "legacy" mode alternatives for some of these functions which is very disappointing.

People who say you can "avoid" Metro are just lying. So many core functions ONLY have Metro apps.

quote:
I keep trying thinking that I just need to learn how to use it better and to be honest my opinion did improve as I used it more and more but then it reached a point of why? What's the benefit? I feel like I am using a neutered OS.


Exactly. It's not about how well you learn to use it. It's just a flawed OS at the conceptual level. It's for touch screens that works "okay" with a keyboard and mouse on a PC. Who over the age of 12 wants to work with this dumbed down gaudy thing?


RE: Tiffany
By The Saxophonist on 8/24/2012 10:49:26 AM , Rating: 2
I know people under the age of 12 who would not want this.


RE: Tiffany
By Nutzo on 8/24/2012 11:11:57 AM , Rating: 2
It's really just a dumbed down version of windows, to make it easier for the masses.

Guess microsoft is trying to compete with Apple :)


RE: Tiffany
By jvillaro on 8/24/2012 2:07:55 PM , Rating: 3
I thought the masses were already using Windows...


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 7:53:32 PM , Rating: 2
But the masses are abandoning Windows and migrate towards iOS and Android, MS has to stop this trend if they want to survive.


RE: Tiffany
By inighthawki on 8/24/2012 11:13:10 AM , Rating: 2
You can still install the windows live suite separately like you could in Windows 7. Those apps just happen to be a handful of metro apps that ship in-box with Windows 8, nothing more.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/25/2012 1:55:13 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
So many core functions ONLY have Metro apps
Lies again. No one prevents you from using desktop apps for the same core functions like email or playing video or music or gaming or everything else. The whole huge library of Windows desktop apps is yours to keep, troll. Why your brain is so tiny you can't comprehend even this?


RE: Tiffany
By Da W on 8/24/2012 10:13:48 AM , Rating: 2
The guy's called Steven Sinofsky


RE: Tiffany
By inighthawki on 8/23/12, Rating: 0
RE: Tiffany
By Art Williams on 8/24/2012 12:11:11 AM , Rating: 3
Overall I agree with inighthawki. It is a big paradigm shift from the user perspective. In the first week of playing with it, I wasn't very happy. After reading some articles and picking up hints here an there it has become relatively usable. Using the Modern(nee Metro) interface merely as a start menu and dropping to the desktop for everything else works for me. For others it might not.
My big annoyance is the lockups. All have been tied to internet use, but gaming works fine. If they can get these issues worked out, I will have 1 or 2 computers at home running it, including my primary PC.


RE: Tiffany
By B3an on 8/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2012 8:18:10 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is flawed conceptually as a desktop OS. It doesn't matter how many "improvements" there are, it lacks the productivity of previous versions and has many conceptual failures. You can put lipstick on the pig, but it's still a pig.

quote:
Win 8 is by far the biggest DESKTOP upgrade Microsoft have released with a new OS.


Maybe from YOUR point of view, but as a general statement, this simply isn't true.

quote:
This isnt even mentioning the tons of small things i've noticed like how it no longer asks if i'm sure i want to delete something (so annoying)


Uh, you could have ALWAYS had this. All you had to do was turn off 'file delete confirmation' in the preferences in pretty much every version of Windows since 2000.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 3:18:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:

> Hyper-V virtualization - Infinite backwards compatibility
> Easier and faster installation
> Faster boot/sleep/wake times
> Improved Security with built in Anti-Virus
> Improved backup and file recovery
> Improved multi-monitor support
> Improved printer support
> Improved performance
> Improved battery life
> Lower memory usage than Win 7
> Improved Accesserbiltity options (for people with disabilities)
> Refresh or Reset your PC - "Refresh" will re-install Win 8 and keep all your settings and files (so it's for those times you've completely FUBAR'd your OS). "Reset" will format the drive and re-install Win 8 as a fresh new copy. The data is thoroughly wiped and random patterns are written to every sector of the drive (For security reasons this is done incase your selling your PC for instance)
> Native ISO and VHD support (you can easily mount any ISO or create a Virtual Hard Drive)
> Boot process completely overhauled (New proper graphical UI with new features with touch and mouse support for the dual-boot screen, Windows Recovery Environment, Disk Check and so on)
> DirectX 11.1, WDDM 1.2, and DXGI 1.2 improvements (as mentioned above)
> Improved desktop 2/D and text GPU acceleration
> Storage Spaces (i'm upgrading for this alone. Google it)
> New task manager
> Ribbon added to Windows Explorer and you can pin your most used tasks to the top (so you dont actually have to have the Ribbon open)
> Change the OS language - before you could only do this on Win 7 Ultimate. Now you can on any version of Win 8 and theres a new Control Panel option to download and install any language
> ReFS (New file system for Win 8 Server)
> Windows To Go (boot and run Win 8 form a USB stick - Enterprise version only though)
> OS-wide spell checking
> New Family Safety features and account features with filtering options, timed usage, app/game restrictions and more
> Native USB 3.0 support - 7 and older need 3rd party drivers. MS created a completely new USB stack for USB 3.0, which is meant to be more efficient and insure compatibility
> Integrated SkyDrive - the best cloud storage around IMO
> 8 Syncs all your user/system settings and IE10 bookmarks across all your PC's

And all this treasure chest just for $39.99??!! Man I need to buy more than three licenses now, I can't let this opportunity pass!!! :D


RE: Tiffany
By nikon133 on 8/24/2012 12:33:15 AM , Rating: 2
All true, but.

My issue with Windows 8 is pushing Metro into desktop users' throats. All they had to do is let users select classic desktop as default boot environment, and leave damn Start button. Because..:

I was on Ingram Micro's Showcase held earlier this week here in Auckland, NZ, and spent most of my time around Microsoft boot. Had a chance to play with couple of touchscreen AIOs and x86 tablets (no RT presented yet) and I really like Metro for touchscreens, or even for non-touchscreen desktops with users with really limited requirements. But.

Moving to classic desktop, and MS people couldn't show me very simple thing - how to drag random application icon on desktop. You cannot go to SEARCH/APPS and drag one from that list, it seems. You can run one and, while running (and showing on taskbar) you can pin it to taskbar, but you cannot drop it to desktop. The only way we could find was right-click on the desktop, NEW/SHORTCUT/BROWSE, and then look for .exe file or whatever you want on your desktop.

How inconvenient is that? Unless there is simple way to do this, and MS people present were simply clueless.

I don't know. I'll probably drop it on one of my computers - maybe laptop I'm using casually - and give it a good go. I played a bit with Consumer Preview but not too much to collect decent knowledge of it... but putting it on my main rig? I'd honestly be afraid to do that, for a while at least.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: Tiffany
By nikon133 on 8/24/2012 6:02:45 PM , Rating: 1
Are you happy with new start screen, or do you find yourself going to classic desktop often?

And did you figure out how to put shortcuts on desktop?


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 9:23:19 PM , Rating: 2
I'm happy with start screen and I go to desktop only for apps that don't have metro versions yet, like Skype or Word or Excel. I try to stay as much as possible inside metro and with more and more metro apps appearing I'll get back to desktop less and less often. There is nothing magical or especially convenient about the old desktop, metro is just as comfortable for me.

Put shortcuts on desktop? What for? Gimme a usage scenario please.


RE: Tiffany
By nikon133 on 8/25/2012 6:46:54 PM , Rating: 2
Major reason, probably habit. But I'm trying not to underestimate the power of habit.

Some corporate environments we are working with like to have heavily locked down PC, with only couple of shortcuts on the desktop - and that is all that workers are supposed to use. I guess task bar icons could replace that, but there is that darn power of habit ;-)

That being said... I've installed Win 8 on my "backup" desktop and been using it over weekend. I am surprised to find myself much more agreeable with Metro than I expected to be. There's a bit of frustration (no, that word is too strong. Annoyance?) for finding things/settings that were moved around or missing (like lack of input keyboard language indicator in Metro), but all in all, experience is so much above expectations.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/27/2012 12:09:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
did you figure out how to put shortcuts on desktop?
Right click on desktop -> New -> Shortcut


RE: Tiffany
By mmarianbv on 8/24/2012 12:55:47 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
-Significant multi-monitor improvement


last time when i try it, it does not let me say which monitor is on my right, and which monitor is on my left.
the only solution was to move my monitors around, which is just lol.
in nvidia panel, you can just drag monitors around.


RE: Tiffany
By inighthawki on 8/24/2012 2:27:44 AM , Rating: 2
Not sure what version of windows you were using but I've been playing with win8 for a while now and you're able to arrange them any way you want in the resolution options like you've been able for years.


RE: Tiffany
By dark matter on 8/24/2012 3:30:22 AM , Rating: 2
You give a list of benefits.

-Improved performance
-Improved battery life

10% increase at the best of times. Will anyone actually notice this, whilst browsing the web? No.

-DirectX 11.1, WDDM 1.2, and DXGI 1.2 improvements

That's great for desktop gaming. But do you think that laptops are going to be running DirectX 11.1 games anytime soon, at decent framerates.

-Storage spaces

My Documents all over again.

-New task manager

Brilliant, because I'm always spending my time in task manager.

-Boot time improvements (Boots on an hdd faster than 7 boots on my SSD)

Bollocks.

-Improved backup and file recovery

Granted.

-Significant multi-monitor improvement

Not a big deal for 95% of the population

-ReFS (if we're counting windows 8 server)

Were not.

-Integrated cloud storage using skydrive

Wow. I mean, just wow.

The so called "benefits" don't really amount to much. Do they.


RE: Tiffany
By B3an on 8/24/2012 5:08:48 AM , Rating: 1
What a pathetic attempt to downplay pretty big improvements. You're really trying too hard.

8 also boots just as fast on my HDD as 7 does on my RAID 0 SSD's, so no it's not b*llocks, but your post is.

8 has far more desktop improvements than 7 did over Vista, but you all like to ignore this fact.

And you clearly have NO idea what Storage Spaces is.


RE: Tiffany
By Ringold on 8/24/2012 5:36:20 AM , Rating: 2
The OP, in my mind, just did a bad job of selling it. One blogger, forget where, described Win8 as "greased lightening" compared to Win7. Task managers, Storage Spaces, bundling a cloud data service that people don't use (most people that would buy an upgrade are probably tech-literate enough to already have a favored solution), these things probably don't spur people to upgrade, and can be disputed case by case on how useful they are.

Performance benchmarks don't lie, though. Win8 is faster across the board, several sites have reviewed it, can't be disputed. That's what I'd push. Talk about MS trying to push something that even remotely reminds me of libraries, which has done nothing for me but get in my way in the side bar for years, would just turn a lot of people off.

Speaking of that, just recently saw a quick how-to on how to remove it from the sidebar.. Bugged the heck out of me for years, and somehow never thought to try to disable it. Doh.


RE: Tiffany
By xdrol on 8/24/2012 5:36:07 AM , Rating: 3
I boot once per day.

I use the desktop almost every second while at my computer.

Figure out what is more important.


RE: Tiffany
By Targon on 8/24/2012 8:32:40 AM , Rating: 1
The real question is why you are spending so much time at your desktop then, instead of using various programs. The issue isn't as much about better or worse as much as why you are so afraid of change that you refuse to go with it and learn the new Windows 8 ways of doing things.

You and others sound like the crowd that complained when "add/remove programs" was replaced by "Programs and Features" under Vista/7. Even if 95 percent of the differences are no better or worse than previous versions of Windows, the remaining stuff will be better.

The desktop is where I go to run programs that I wanted easy access to(rather than going to all programs and tracking it down there). From that perspective then, a change to the UI that does the same thing but looks and operates differently does not bother me in the slightest. I'll need to learn where things are again, but I am not afraid of that, and I don't know why so many people are. From an IT perspective, supporting Windows 8 will simply be a learning experience for a while.


RE: Tiffany
By xdrol on 8/27/2012 6:05:26 AM , Rating: 2
"spending time at desktop"?

Sorry but that is plain retarded (your comparison with the add/remove vs. Programs and features is even move, those are basically the exact same thing, with just a different name).

How else can I start a new program, if not from the "desktop" (or start menu or metro whatever, doesn't matter). Being a developer I unfortunately have to use Win8 to test our stuff. In Win7, using the old start menu is a lot faster. I already have a learning curve of 3 months - so try not to tell me I should just "learn it".

Metro (sorry, "Win8 style interface") is not designed to be used fast on a desktop. It is designed to be used on a touchscreen (and it is good there). And the problem is enforcing something to be used somewhere it is not meant to.


RE: Tiffany
By Reclaimer77 on 8/24/2012 8:23:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
8 also boots just as fast on my HDD as 7 does on my RAID 0 SSD's, so no it's not b*llocks, but your post is.


That's not possible so you need to stop repeating it. UNLESS you're talking about a fresh copy of Windows 8, and comparing it to a Windows 7 install that's been used for years. Is that really fair or worth bringing up?

quote:
8 has far more desktop improvements than 7 did over Vista, but you all like to ignore this fact.


Wrong. It's the worst desktop Windows ever because of Metro.


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 3:32:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's the worst desktop Windows ever because of Metro
Metro does not prevent you from using your desktop stuff, so why are you lying here? If you don't like Metro just use desktop instead, what's the problem?


RE: Tiffany
By xti on 8/24/2012 7:09:23 PM , Rating: 2
idk, the vast population doesnt know how to customize anything. maybe he is just a bit slow and some day he will find the control panel.


RE: Tiffany
By Visual on 8/27/2012 4:25:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's not possible

Impossible is nothing! ;)

But seriously, get a clue before you post. It is possible, by using a saved memory state with drivers and stuff already initialized. A bit like how hibernation works just used on all normal boots after the first if the hardware devices have not changed.


RE: Tiffany
By inighthawki on 8/24/2012 11:28:50 AM , Rating: 3
"10% increase at the best of times. Will anyone actually notice this, whilst browsing the web? No."

I notice when my system is overall more responsive and lasts an extra 30 minutes. But that's just me.

"That's great for desktop gaming. But do you think that laptops are going to be running DirectX 11.1 games anytime soon, at decent framerates."

The improvements aren't just for performance, these features help improve the usability and interopability between various libraries (d2d and d3d11, for example) and also provide drivers with improved performance and optimizations like DirectFlip. WDDM 1.2 can be used natively out of the box and doesn't require writing games to support it, it is the driver model that graphics drivers are written on.

"My Documents all over again."

You clearly have no idea what storage spaces is. Built in software RAID with the ability to mirror, stripe, and parity any number of drives into a single logical volume has nothing to do with "my documents" or "libraries" or anything similar.

"Brilliant, because I'm always spending my time in task manager."

I never said it was some groundbreaking thing you'll use all day, but it *does* provide a significant improvement in usability over previous versions. End of the day, an improvement

"Bollocks."

No, not bollocks. I use both every day (win 7 on my ssd desktop and 8 on an hdd). I reboot a lot due to what I do, but everytime I reboot windows 8 absolutely amazes me. I'll turn back around to wait for it to boot only to realize it's already in a usable state.

And to the person below who thought it's "impossible," why is that? The boot process in win8 is significantly simpler than in Windows 7. It's not just "minor improvements here and there," they actually completely revamped it to do hybrid kernel hibernation, and as a result requires significantly less startup time.

"Not a big deal for 95% of the population"

And for 5% of the population that do use more than one monitor, it is a HUGE bonus feature.

"Were not."

Why not, simply because consumers won't use it? That seems like a silly reason not to count an enormous feature supported on the windows 8 desktop.

"Wow. I mean, just wow."

Are you trying to say that you don't care about cloud storage? That's great, but if you haven't noticed, TONS of people do. And maybe you can play off some of the above features like "improved performance" and "multi-mon support" because only a small fraction of people will notice, but when I finally list a feature that actually has a huge impact for most of the consumer base, you shrug it off and pretend it's nothing? You really are trying to just act like Windows 8 has nothing new, aren't you? Not really sure what kinds of features and improvements you expect from an OS...


RE: Tiffany
By damianrobertjones on 8/24/2012 4:25:03 AM , Rating: 2
Well said


RE: Tiffany
By nafhan on 8/24/2012 11:04:20 AM , Rating: 2
I think the main issue with Windows 8 for the desktop user, is that it really adds very little. You've got big changes to the UI, and minor improvements to numerous little things (that very few people will notice in practice). The "killer" feature in Windows 8 is the improved touchscreen and tablet support, which is obviously irrelevant if you are not running it on a tablet.

This does not mean Windows 8 is bad, it doesn't mean Win 8 has no redeeming features, it just means that it's not going to be worth the hassle of upgrading for the majority of current Windows users. Importantly, this includes corporate IT (some of whom have not finished rolling out Windows 7). I think that was the point of the article.

Basically, I don't really have a problem with Windows 8. I'm just not going to pay for something that really doesn't improve things (for me) over Windows 7.


RE: Tiffany
By NellyFromMA on 8/24/2012 11:33:49 AM , Rating: 2
The reality of the situationis there is very little Microsoft to add to Win7 to make it better. MS has been in the unenviable position of having to best itself for its entirety, this time it had an excellent opportunity to abandon that by moving in to a new market. It's intelligent on so many levels really.

People complain because WinY is only marginally better than WinX. Well, MS listened and figured "hey, if we have the best selling desktop OS of all time, why do we need to touch it at all?".

No brainer.


RE: Tiffany
By DJ Brandon on 8/24/2012 12:32:56 AM , Rating: 2
You're racsist :) How dare you say she is unbiased. You are racsist against everyone else here!!!

=)


RE: Tiffany
By inighthawki on 8/24/2012 12:52:15 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think racist was the word you were looking for. Maybe 'sexist' if you were referring to her being a woman, or 'discriminatory' in general. But not racist...


RE: Tiffany
By dark matter on 8/24/2012 3:32:37 AM , Rating: 2
No doubt you got that from you're daddy, who thinks that joke is awesome.

We have news for you, you don't even understand what it means to even use it correctly.

Time to tell daddy there are no reds under the bed.


RE: Tiffany
By DrakeSG on 8/24/2012 1:48:33 AM , Rating: 2
I've got Win8 RTM installed on a desktop with 3 monitors. I do a lot of cad cam work.

How is pressing the windows button on the keyboard hard?


RE: Tiffany
By Pirks on 8/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: Tiffany
By dark matter on 8/24/2012 3:33:40 AM , Rating: 1
How hard would it have been to leave the classic menu as an option?


RE: Tiffany
By retrospooty on 8/24/2012 8:23:54 AM , Rating: 2
"You get a lot of crap here"

Its pretty funny. Anyone that posts here, staff writers or even us comment junkies, we all get alot of crap. Talk abou t angry nerds ;)


RE: Tiffany
By NellyFromMA on 8/24/2012 11:31:49 AM , Rating: 2
ACtually, this is what I've been saying all along... Microsoft doesnt NEED another best sellind desktop OS because they ALREADY HAVE ONE! Win 8 is all about mobile and if you don't want it on your PC, you can either stick with or purchase the established BEST desktop OS around!

See, Microsoft is smarter than anyone gives them credit for. Why pour resources into coming up with a replacement for software that NEED NOT BE REPLACED.

Haha, called it...


RE: Tiffany
By Argon18 on 8/24/2012 12:26:14 PM , Rating: 2
Funny, I said the same thing months ago - that it looks like a decent phone or tablet UI, but it's an absolute turd on the desktop.


RE: Tiffany
By arazok on 8/24/2012 2:15:47 PM , Rating: 2
I don’t get why losing the start menu is a big deal. I have to admit, I haven’t tried the RC – I may find otherwise, but to me I don’t see a big deal with no start menu. 99% of the time I open it, I select a program that I’ve either pinned, or is in my most used list. I almost never go to all programs. What’s the big deal if these are simply moved to the desktop?

I see this as being a minor thing I need to adapt to, with the end result being the same (a few clicks to get what I want), or possibly better – more programs readily accessible from one interface.


RE: Tiffany
By xti on 8/24/2012 7:06:48 PM , Rating: 2
shouldnt that read..."The main issue is that windows 8 metro theme is really meant for mobile devices"?

u arent handcuffed to it, man, people will say anything to avoid change...


Whoa
By Amedean on 8/23/2012 10:14:46 PM , Rating: 5
Whoa, I have not stepped foot in this site in a long time. I was just about to delete Dailytech from my favorites but behold today because I do not see any emperor Jason Mick Obama sith lord articles........and what is this I read?!?!? It is actual technology news, YES......did a previous editor retire? Good heavens I was so tired of the politics, I can escape again!!!




RE: Whoa
By inperfectdarkness on 8/24/2012 2:33:24 AM , Rating: 1
Maybe you should delete foxnews, cnn, msnbc, moveon, huffingtonpost, etc....and perhaps then coming to a site that's NOT inherently dedicated to politics won't bother you so much.

As much as it might be painful to admit, politics comes up quite a bit on DT because politics has messed a great deal of things up (e.g. tax relief for hybrid owners, the patent system, ethanol/farm subsidies, reduced funding for critical military programs etc). And those are just the ones that have some direct bearing on technology articles.

Hiding from the fact that the people we have elected has destroyed our economy, impaired progress, etc...that makes you an ostrich. Enjoy the sand.


RE: Whoa
By web2dot0 on 8/24/2012 4:13:40 AM , Rating: 2
So Romney is supposed to "save" the economy? Will the Ryan Plan save us? hahahaha. Show me those wondering "ideas" that no one thought of yet. Plz. Enlighten me.

Who would you elect? Put your money where your mouth is.


RE: Whoa
By Nutzo on 8/24/2012 12:50:37 PM , Rating: 2
You mean like the current administration’s plan?
Oh wait, the Democrat controlled Senate hasn’t even passed a budget in 3 years, and the budget the President submitted early this year was voted down 99-0 in the Democrat controlled Senate.

Go ahead and vote for 4 more years of high unemployment and slow growth. I’d rather give the other guys a chance.


It's Windows Vista
By fake01 on 8/23/2012 10:15:29 PM , Rating: 2
Pretty sure the image in the middle is Windows Vista not Windows 7. They are easily distinguishable by the taskbar.




RE: It's Windows Vista
By robertisaar on 8/23/2012 10:35:12 PM , Rating: 2
seems to have the Vista style bar with the 7 style calculator... odd.


RE: It's Windows Vista
By The Saxophonist on 8/24/2012 11:07:20 AM , Rating: 2
No, windows 7 is configurable to look like that.


RE: It's Windows Vista
By gglenn on 8/24/2012 2:08:28 PM , Rating: 2
It is a pre-production build of Windows 7, probably from a time when the UI still had some Vista-isms in it. It says so right in the lower right-hand corner.


You'll have no choice anyway !
By armageddon51 on 8/24/2012 8:59:20 AM , Rating: 2
While I have no interest in W8 whatsoever after trying it out, Microsoft will shove it down the throat of every new pc buyers, like it or not. Very few are going to yank it and buy a costly W7 licence (unless MS offer a "downgrade" program))) So MS knows that it can impose his views on users because they control the new PC market. So you have no say anyway.




By Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer on 8/24/2012 10:52:25 AM , Rating: 2
That's why I just invested in a good laptop that should last me for a while, while I could still get Windows 7 on it...and I bought three retail copies of Windows 7 so that I could keep two future desktops and one future laptop running Windows 7 for the foreseeable future. Yes, it was expensive, so thanks, Microsoft, for forcing me to do that.

I'll probably get my $15 Windows 8 upgrade (from buying the laptop) and dual-boot 7 and 8 (well, I'll probably triple-boot with Linux) so that I can use 8 to develop Metro apps...because as you say, people will be forced to use Windows 8, and I'm sure there'll be money to be made in Metro apps.

And yes, I'm aware that that kind of makes me a cynical, mercenary SoB, but a guy's gotta make money.


RE: You'll have no choice anyway !
By gglenn on 8/24/2012 1:00:24 PM , Rating: 2
I installed Classic Shell (available on Source Forge) on my Windows 8 system yesterday. It emulates the Windows Start Menu and a few other legacy features. It makes a big improvement to the usability of desktop mode, and that change alone makes Windows 8 almost pretty good.

I still miss the Aero inteface, though. The trasparency effect and rounded corners on window frames aren't such a big deal, but removing all shading from the window borders removes the depth from the desktop and makes it much more difficult to tell where one window ends and another begins. With only a few windows open, it isn't so bad, but if there are a dozen or more open, it becomes a real mess without the visual cue the shading provides.

There are a few other minor annoyances, too. For example, the other day I was disputing some changes with an unnamed large bank. I brought up my account in the desktop browser, but when I went to view the PDF statement links, the PDF viewer would come up in Metro mode. This made it not possible to switch to another windows to easily reference e-mail or another statement while I was on the phone. They either need parallel viewers for desktop and Metro modes, or a single view that is smart enough to know which enviroment it was lauched from an present the appropriate interface.


By Pessimism on 8/27/2012 9:33:10 AM , Rating: 2
+100, Classic Shell FTW!


I'll bite
By Omega215D on 8/23/2012 11:21:36 PM , Rating: 3
Considering the low upgrade price I'll give Win.8 a try as I'll do the same with WP8.Vista wasn't as bad as a lot of FUD morons say it was.




RE: I'll bite
By Pirks on 8/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: I'll bite
By armageddon51 on 8/24/2012 4:14:58 PM , Rating: 2
hum ... that smell Microsoft employee here.


RE: I'll bite
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 6:57:21 PM , Rating: 2
Don't stick your nose so deep in your ass, and this smell will go away immediately.


sdf
By xdrol on 8/24/2012 5:38:19 AM , Rating: 1
It's not "7 is the new XP", rather "8 is the new Vista".




RE: sdf
By Dr of crap on 8/24/2012 8:34:32 AM , Rating: 2
And why do you all upgrade your OS??

I would never think of doing that.

Only when I get a new PC do I get a new OS. Why spend the money and time/effort to upgrade an OS from one that is working on your PC?


RE: sdf
By xdrol on 8/27/2012 6:08:04 AM , Rating: 2
Guess what - I won't. Did I say anywhere I will?


By nangryo on 8/24/2012 7:26:14 AM , Rating: 4
By forcing desktop user to as metro apps base, the metro apps ecosystem will grow in number quickly, hence, will spur apps development for metro, which in return will help Microsoft tablet and Smartphone penetration.

It's all part of critical Microsoft future strategy. Which makes them look like a stubborn company by ignoring a lot of complain from their desktop user.




Vista and 7
By bobsmith1492 on 8/23/2012 10:56:52 PM , Rating: 2
I've used Vista at home since 2006 and 7 at work for ~1.5 years.

I hate to break it to the author, but Vista and 7 are all but identical. 7 simply adds a few graphical window manipulations, some of which are useful (snap to full-screen) and some are annoying (aero peek), and tweaks to the task bar.




RE: Vista and 7
By StevoLincolnite on 8/23/2012 11:10:26 PM , Rating: 2
The problem with Vista was that it was released at a time where it was deemed demanding on a system, I remember seeing budget laptops selling with 512mb of ram with Vista, it ran like crap; where-as XP would run great, not a good experience for a brand new computer that's for sure.

Everyone eventually upgraded and by the time Windows 7 rolled around it wasn't really an issue.

The other problem was drivers, nVidia and AMD were a culprit for a massive amount of crashes on the OS, they were simply unprepared in that department, by the time Windows 7 rolled out it was a non issue.

None of these instances are going to occur with Windows 8, Windows 8 can even use Windows 7 drivers, it's stable and it's relatively fast.
So the issue all boils down to the User Interface.


RE: Vista and 7
By Pirks on 8/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Vista and 7
By Ringold on 8/24/12, Rating: -1
RE: Vista and 7
By Pirks on 8/24/2012 3:36:49 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
This interface is absolute bullshit without a touch screen
No it's not, it's totally usable with a mouse or a touchpad on my Sony Vaio, with keyboard shortcuts or without them. Its very similar to the old concepts like Alt-Tabbing your way around, it's exactly the same.
quote:
huge tiles eating gobs of pixels on a non-touch LCD? Idiocy.
You call UI simplification idiocy but most people like it. Who needs tons of complex tiny UI controls on your LCD? Maybe a few geeks like yourself, but Win8 has a desktop for those geeks, the rest will enjoy simple and slick Metro UI.
quote:
Vast majority of people that've touched it don't like it
Geeky reviews from wizards of Win95 desktop era don't count, these geeks will hate everything but Win95 UI by definition. Let's see what non-geeky common public says about it next year.


2nd photo
By Totally on 8/24/2012 1:30:31 AM , Rating: 1
That's Vista not Win7




RE: 2nd photo
By Belard on 8/27/2012 6:09:33 PM , Rating: 2
Its Windows7 Beta, where its using the Vista skin UI but with the some of Win7's enhancements.

But agreed, the photo doesn't belong.


Seriously..?!
By nocturne_81 on 8/25/2012 8:44:21 PM , Rating: 2
It seems most who are spouting out hate against Win8 either have not used it and rely on misinformed articles written by laymen, or simply loaded up an early build and immediately became too annoyed with the changes rather than try to learn to adapt.

Trust me.. I'm certainly no MS fanboy. I'm just stuck with what is simply the most solid, reliable, and functionally complete operating system I have available to me (and, hey -- I can play games on it, too). And even as annoyed as I was with Win8 initially -- the vast performance improvements alone are enough to keep me from simply booting up to my main win7 partition (and honestly, it's far easier to use -- once you take the time to get used to all the tricks).

The major complaint about win8 seems to be the start menu (or screen, rather).. Besides the simple fact that it's now fullscreen and arranged via pretty tiles (though useless and incredibly taxing on resources compared to it's payoff), there's really not much functional difference. If you've kept up with other articles on this subject, you'll recall that MS did extensive data gathering on the usage of the start menu in win7 -- and found out that people simply don't use it, instead relying on 'docked' apps or shortcuts. So they did what they felt was necessary -- return some functionality to the raging mess we call the win7 start menu. So, it's full screen.. no big deal -- if I'm trying to start a program, I imagine that's the only thing I'm doing at that very moment anyways. Functionally, though.. I just click the bottom left corner of the screen (who needs a damn button?! wasted space!), and start typing what I want.. If it's an app, chances are by the 4th keystroke it's autoselected and I can just press enter (or take the option to run as admin, pin to start, pin to taskbar, etc). If it's an obscure control panel applet I'm looking for, I just click on settings and -- bam, there it is. File search.. eh.. never been one to index files, let alone arrange them in a sensible manner, so no comment there. So basically -- you have a fullscreen start menu (pro or con, your choice), that offers functionality far in excess of what win7 offered (though some customization options would be nice).

By now.. any should certainly know you don't have to use any 'metro' apps. First of all, installation of them is a choice (outside of wmp, ie, etc). You don't have to use the video app, document app, mail app, messaging app, people app, etc.. You have to make the conscious decision to download and install them (if MS bundled them, they'd be violating anti-trust agreements.. a situation consumers pushed towards, so don't blame MS). And as clearly labelled, they are nothing but preview builds (so obviously likely to be flawed and noncomplete in terms of functionality) so you can't be all too critical of app performance on an OS that is 2 months away from release still. After all, these apps are basically meant as inspiration, a tutorial to devs on what MS is expecting from metro apps. All in all, though.. I have no use for 'apps', and hence no use for metro. Just boot to your desktop, use the start menu like a start menu, and don't go crazy installing apps from the 'app store' that may steal away file associations from your normal desktop apps. You're left with what is basically win7 running on a slimmer shell (flip animations and anti-aliasing over aero's transparencies -- obvious which is too power hungry).

Sure, there are changes.. but for the most part, they are for good. I admit, I was baffled when first trying to restart my pc after testing win8 -- I felt ashamed that I had to google to find the answer. In hindsight, though.. I realize modern pc's aren't designed to be rebooted constantly -- sleep mode actually works now, outside of a few 3rd party driver probs here and there. So push the power button, and by default your pc will sleep.. Outside of that -- mouse gesture to open charms, click settings, click power, click desired option -- once you know, it just seems obvious, and requires no more clicks than it did in vista/7.

I should state, though.. if you have win7 and are completely happy with your setup -- by all means, don't change it just to get faster boots and around 5% performance increase across the board (most of it dealing with ui/wddm tweaks, ironically), at least if you aren't expecting to spend a bit of time working the changes out (then again -- exactly why we have public test builds).

If you are on Win XP, though.. and are somehow technically apt enough to have made it to this site, unless you're running an axp-/pentium4- with less than a gig of ram -- you're opinion can't be taken with any merit. XP is ridiculously outdated, horribly insecure, and just so ridiculously slow on any modern hardware (dual-core/64bit/2gig mem and up); I can't imagine any reason why any intelligent individual would choose it over win7, let alone win8.

In summation.. Win 8 is indeed faster, with less memory footprint. Metro is annoying and useless to me, so I just don't use it (it really is that simple); while to those that prefer the all-in-one cutesy social experience -- sure they'll have a field day. Start menu was annoying at first, but despite all the wasted space proves to be incredibly more useful. Apps are give and take -- but nothing keeps you from installing any one of your preferred apps (even MS's own desktop version of live messenger, mail, etc). The shell changes are confusing at first, but once you figure it out seems more intuitive (where I'd consider vista/7 a step back in intuitiveness).

So.. A faster OS with minor functionality changes to learn out, or sitting behind with the rest of the pack whining about 'the good ol days' of OS's..




RE: Seriously..?!
By Belard on 8/27/2012 6:07:38 PM , Rating: 1
Bullshit. Windows8 is not 5% faster across the board. In what few game reviews that are out now, the difference in playing a game between Win7 and Win8 is about 0~1% with Windows7 being faster - usually.

Yes, Win8 boots up faster - but its really just a reset and quick boot from a hybrid hibernation mode.


From day 1
By Hakuryu on 8/23/2012 10:33:41 PM , Rating: 2
I've been saying this very thing. Day 1 being my knowledge of the UI formerly known as Metro. Prince, please sue, I'm bored.

History repeats itself. MS can't help itself. Win98 and then Windows ME. WinXP and then Vista. Win7 and then Win8. When will they learn users want a no-frills, stable OS with wide driver support and not the latest and greatest cool perhaps casual-grabber?

I'd sell it short. Facebook thank you (another bet I won).




Every other OS trend
By Fancarolina on 8/24/2012 3:47:35 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft has done this for many years. Example: 98 Great OS, successor ME terrible, next XP again great, Vista many hated, we now move to 7 again loved, Windows 8 can you see the trend?




Who is the decision maker
By mshimohi on 8/24/2012 3:50:30 AM , Rating: 2
As I'm already decided to skip Win8 after using Win PR and Evaluation, I'm interested in who decided this stupid GUI for desktop. May be there were some discussions in internal MS, and there should be decision maker in senior directors. These internal story will be some of fun. I don't believe all of MS engineers and employees appreciate Win8 GUI.




A new strategy from MS perhaps?
By jabber on 8/24/2012 7:39:19 AM , Rating: 2
Ms knows that only certain versions of Windows get widely adopted by business in general. Always one or two get largely skipped.

So maybe MS is now doing alternate OS releases?

Windows 8 is a more consumer release, knowing that business will still be moving over to 7 and some staying on XP.

Then Windows 9 (whatever) will maybe be a more business/enterprise orientated OS.

It appears that Microsoft are back on track with pushing out a new OS every 2-3 years or so. In that case a alternate consumer/business OS model may not be a bad idea.

Not much point in piling in loads of Enterprise features if you know darn well it's not going to be used this time around.

We shall see.




bad article overall
By Targon on 8/24/2012 7:41:19 AM , Rating: 2
For all the focus on new features and enhancements that so many in the tech world have, there is a HUGE fear and dislike of anything that involves CHANGING how something works. You saw it with Vista, and now we are seeing it with Windows 8.

With Vista, there were really only three major issues that caused it not to do well:

1) Poor initial driver quality caused a number of problems, and NVIDIA was one of the primary culprits of not having the drivers ready for prime time. This was largely resolved by July of 2007. The adoption of 64 bit versions of Vista is related to this since many devices did not have ANY 64 bit drivers, and some NEVER released 64 bit drivers for their hardware.

2) Enforcement of certain rules by apps caused some apps to not work under Vista or Windows 7, and this is simply bad programming that cut corners. It is basically what happens when laws that were on the books but not enforced are suddenly enforced. You get a lot of complaints from people who get tickets for breaking the rules. Windows XP mode in Windows 7 Professional is one way to work around the problems, but really, bad apps are NOT the fault of the OS.

3) Issues with the OS not being well suited to low-end systems, primarily those with less than 2GB of RAM. Vista was more memory hungry than XP, so a 1GB or under machine really needed an upgrade to run Vista decently.

Now, if you had a system with decent drivers and 3+ GB of RAM, then in general, Vista was NOT a bad OS. Most of the negative press from the first half of 2007 is why so many people avoided Vista, not because the OS itself was so horrible. Windows 7 is really Vista with better drivers and less memory hungry(though 2GB of RAM is still needed to run well). If you like Windows 7, then you would have liked Vista once the driver issues were resolved.

Now, Windows 8 is going to bring a new UI, and people are suddenly AFRAID, or they are screaming that they hate it. I suspect that most of this is simply a dislike of change. Windows 95 brought us the "start" button, so it has been a LONG time since the overall UI of Microsoft Windows has been changed, and that simply rubs people the wrong way, in much the same way that many people dislike using a Mac, or Mac users dislike using a Windows machine, they don't like change, and it bothers them when they are FORCED to change. Some scream about it loudly, so stick with the old OS.

So, Windows 8 will be different, and it is fair that many will not rush out to upgrade as a result. To say that it is BAD requires a bit of time as the primary OS where you are forced to use it and get your head around the differences. Windows 8 UI will also probably see some changes, in much the same way that an all new car design sees rough spots smoothed out after one model year. Different does NOT mean people should avoid it, and anyone intelligent should NOT fear change. Those with more legit issues, such as multi-monitor users having problems hitting certain UI elements of the OS have a valid concern, but that does not affect the vast majority of users.

People need to stop being so worried about a UI change, and instead worry about things that are more problematic, such as application compatibility and driver quality. People should EMBRACE change, not because change is always good, but because clinging to the old is an even worse trait. Look at Windows 8 when it comes out for yourself($40 isn't too much to ask really), and give yourself a chance to figure out where things are. Be intelligent, and don't act like someone clueless who complained in Windows Vista/7 that they can't find the "start" button because it didn't say the word "Start" on the button. Be BETTER than the clueless masses who just can't handle things, like buying a car from a different manufacturer because the controls are in a slightly different place. You CAN complain if something like the steering wheel is replaced by a joystick, but if you try it for a while, you MAY find that the changes you initially dislike actually are an improvement.

The question for now is if the Windows 8 UI really is an improvement or not, and it really seems that a LOT of people are just fighting it because it is different, not because it really is worse.




no chance
By p05esto on 8/24/12, Rating: 0
RE: no chance
By Nutzo on 8/24/2012 12:44:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The UI is so stupid and cumbersome, it takes so many more clicks to do simple stuff


Don’t under estimate the extra clicks when it comes to business users.

I’ve seen large IT projects come to a screeching halt, because the new application required a few extra clicks to place an order or update an account. This is the main reason I’m still supporting a 15 year old custom application at the office.
When you multiple a few extra clicks, times dozens screens it adds up pretty quick.


By The Saxophonist on 8/24/2012 11:04:36 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is simply flawed. MS is alienating a large percent of their users with this, because gamers, enthusiasts, businesses, and people who were around during the '98 days will all hate clicking on giant, Fisher-Price style buttons that feel like they were designed for a three year old. I like my desktop. I like the start button. I like being able to shut my PC down with three keystrokes. I like my black background. I'm fine with having metro as an option, but please let me boot directly to desktop, and never, ever look at Metro. I wil be sticking with Windows 7 for as long as I can. Next year, when I build my next PC, I will attempt to get an OEM copy of 7. If I can't, Linuix. But not windows 8. I think a lot of people are with me here.




Windows 8 Desktop
By trooper11 on 8/24/2012 11:57:14 AM , Rating: 2
I still don't get why people gloss over the fact that Win 8 has a fully functional desktop side that is basically Win 7 with enhancements (ui improvements to task manager, file transfers, etc and new features like storage spaces) and changes (a start screen instead of a start menu, charms for accessing settings, new corner functions). Ill list some reasons why it hasn't been an impossible transition for me.

I know someone shot down the idea of living on the desktop side, but it really is true. I have been using the beta for quite some time, to give it a proper run through. The new ui side is most definitely tailored to touch devices, you'll get no argument from me. But other then the start screen, I don't interact with that new ui during my daily work.

I rarely shut down a pc, but lets say I have to do that in Win 8. When I boot back up, I click on the desktop icon on the start screen and I'm moving along. At that point, I have only had to use the start screen for searches, which is something else I don't usually do a lot. So now that I am in the desktop, all the programs I had on 7 are there, running as they should (with all the taskbar features I used in 7 such as pinning my programs, etc). Win 7 really changed my usage habits away from the start menu. In 7, I access all of my programs and file explorer via the pinned shortcuts on the taskbar or the occasional desktop icon. In Win 8, I can still do all of that. The only things I used the start menu for were the occasional search and getting to control panel. While that is gone in Win 8, MS left a menu in the same corner. If you right click where the start menu use to be, you get a menu giving you quick access to things like control panel. So that only leaves searches that force you into the new ui. I can understand why people prefer the old method, but since I do it so little, it hasn't been a big deal for me.

I'm not sure why people would think you have to use the new ui apps like Mail. I have the windows mail client installed right now on the desktop side of Win 8. It works fine.

Its fine if you aren't happy with the changes, I'm just saying that its not a universal failure. There are certainly things MS needs to fix to make the transition much smoother and I think there are ways they can bridge the gap between power users like us that need certain functions and the average user that is all about easy of use. The new ui is not going to stay as it is now, I'm sure MS is feverishly working on changes as we speak, in order to improve that UI so that power users will be more willing to use it on a desktop. For now, its a 1.0 ui and focused primarily on touch devices, so I'll be avoiding it on my regular desktop.




Not impressed
By MadAd on 8/24/2012 12:13:07 PM , Rating: 2
my major complaint with the look of Win8 is how on earth am i expected to open a new application using stupid desktop tiles when I have 8 folders, 5 random apps, VLC and 18 browser windows with over 100 open tabs on.

I would love MS to tell me where I have space to even SEE the desktop, never mind interact with it as a primary surface. The little bits at the edges is already taken up by my icons for stuff I want to use (not what MS think they can force down my throat).

Which brings me to my final point. Being forced to adopt unpopular things brings dissatisfaction and rebellion, I certainly dont want win8, I want something that I as a customer feel is an improvement, not digital shackles forced on me by poorly balanced design needs.




By DoseOfReality on 8/24/2012 1:31:28 PM , Rating: 2
I could live with Windows 8 Metro interface if I could run it in a WINDOW on the Windows Desktop, and launch it with the handy Start Menu when needed/wanted. It's called Windows, not tiles, not slate, tablet surface, etc.

Operating system desktops work so well with lots of screen resolution and size, which allows many applications to be open on the screen at once, contained in WINDOWS to delineate and organize all that is going on in front of me. Mobile and tablets have less screen real estate, which limites the kind of applications that can be run on them, and the kind of operating system shells one may work in. As a result, the user operating environment must be visually and operationally simplified so my sausage-fingers can operate things, and I can accept that for a mobile platform. However, to force all desktop computing to be reduced to that lowest common of operational denominator is NOT progress imho. Progress should be to elevate the operating environment to higher resolutions and much higher screen real estate, so I can have so much more going on in front of me.

Where the hell is my 65" 4K resolution monitor that can hold a wall of legible windowed applications in front of me? It's going to be 2013 soon and I'm still waiting while some markedroids are pushing things backward to chase Apples Tablet market penetration success? Find your own damn niche, and don't abuse your OS and productivity application dominant position to cram this down the throats of your user-base that has buttered your bread all these years.

It may be a fine operating system underneath, but if the shell sucks to use, it is all for not. Someone called it lipstick on a pig? I call it a hot chick slathered with another man's diseased bukake.




Use it for a couple days...
By turbocoupe27 on 8/24/2012 1:55:17 PM , Rating: 2
By reading many of the comments on here, I get the feeling many people have either never used Windows 8 or looked at it for no more than a few minutes.

You don't have to use metro apps at all. I've removed them all from my start screen and the tiles are just my commonly used desktop apps. Yes, so my start menu is full screen and I have to use the windows key instead of clicking a little circle, bit deal.

Once you start thinking of the start screen as just a big start menu that opens when you start the computer, nothing is different. And for everybody complaining about the placement of the shutdown menu...Win+D - Alt+F4 still does it...like it has since they started putting the windows key on keyboards.




By Belard on 8/24/2012 9:25:09 PM , Rating: 2
First: The screenshot used in this article is not Windows7 release version. Its a very early beta version, it has Vista UI... Not the better ACTUAL Windows7 UI. :(

Windows 7 will most likely be pulled off the market as MS strong-arms Windows R8PE/Metro across the board into all markets (Desktop / tablet / Phones / xbox)... They spend so much time ripping out code, blocking this, blocking that - making Windows R8PE as nasty as possible... I don't see Win7 being an option for most users. Maybe in some business units (ThinkPad).

Almost Nobody is going be pirating Windows 8... who wants it? Anyone who loves it, can't wait to give MS their money.

With Windows7 taken off the market, *IT* will be a very much pirated Operating System. Some of us system builders will not able to buy Windows 7. (unless we can somehow use the Win8 key with Win7 - but still be legit - still an ugly can of worms)

Some have said "you can add a Win7 style menu to Windows 8" - so what? To buy and use Windows 8 (then fix it) would not help our cause. It doesn't punish Microsoft. So DO NOT buy Windows 8, do not support it, do not sell it.

The effort to use Windows 8 could just as easily be done for Linux instead... or use Windows 7 for the next 7~8 years. And the piracy of Windows 7 will be sad.




By firstone on 8/24/2012 11:08:26 PM , Rating: 2
People, there's a whole lot of TALK and very little experience with Windows 8. Well, as an IT professional that has been using Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 for a few months, I can tell you that I have both running EXACTLY like my former Windows 7/ Windows Server 2008 R2.
One little neat utility called Classic Shell (100% freeware) does wonders to the interface. Of course there are a few things that will look a little different from Windows 7 but so far, many of the drivers I needed worked fine in the new OS and all of the programs worked like a charm.
So, I can surely say that there's a LOT of exaggeration on the news that Windows 8 is a flop. It's faster than Windows 7 most of the time (boot times, standby, runs better in older hardware for example), reliable and you can customize it to look the way you prefer.
Windows 7 or Windows 8, we're well served with both.




there is some hope
By jonp on 8/27/2012 1:05:11 PM , Rating: 2
check out "How to enable Aero Glass in Windows 8 RTM" on you tube.




don't hate me but...
By Captain Awesome on 8/30/2012 9:56:53 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe it's because I wasn't an early adopter, and got it after they sorted out all of it's problems and missing drivers. But I kind of like my computers running Vista.




By Orac4prez on 8/24/2012 2:03:01 AM , Rating: 1
I have to say I am not 8 years old and the interface is just rubbish. How old are their users? Either execs in the US are getting awfully young or becoming juvenile delinquents but just looking at the screen makes me want to puke. There is no way I would have a desktop or mobile with that abominal mess on it. I'd rather switch to Apple, Linux or anything else for the desktop - or simply write directly on paper and use a hand calculator.

Shoot the designers and put them out of our misery!




By dark matter on 8/24/2012 3:37:46 AM , Rating: 1
Look, the only reason they are changing to the Metro interface is to try and counter the success of the iPad.

If the metro screen was "better" rather than "different" to the start menu, then I could accept this.

But it isn't. And worst of all, Microsoft refuses point blank to listen to its customers, and leave it to them to enable the "classic" menu. Instead it seeks to impose its will on its customers.

I'm sure some will lap it up. But it's not any "better" than what people are used to. It's simply different. And there is the issue. Why force change on people for no added benefit.

Oh, and by the way, people seem to harp on about the "start" menu.

Windows Vista and Windows 7 do NOT have a start menu. It's simply a menu, where you press the orb.

Windows XP has the Start menu.




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