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Nomura Securities cites poor U.S. holiday sales as reason for cutting PS3 shipment forecasts by 25%

If the latest figures from Nomura Securities are any indication, Sony is having a bit of trouble moving its $599 and $499 PlayStation 3 consoles in North America. The Nomura report simply reiterates what many Americans are seeing at electronics retailers across the United States: store shelves filled with PS3s looking for a home.

Sony had originally forecasted that it would have 2 million consoles available globally for the November 2006 launch with another 2 million entering the channel before the end of 2006. Those figures were then halved to just 2 million units globally for all of 2006. According to Sony's own figures, 1 million PS3s were shipped in the U.S. during 2006 with another 470,000 shipped in Japan. That puts Sony 530,000 units short for 2006.

Sony does appear to be making up for some lost ground, however, as it announced today that it has now crossed the 1 million units shipped mark in Japan.

Nomura reports that for the fiscal quarter ending in March, PS3 shipments will total 4.5 million units instead of Sony’s forecast of 6 million units. For the next two fiscal years, Nomura is cutting its PS3 sales forecasts from 16 million to 10 million and from 18 million to 11 million respectively.

In other news, Sony is expected to launch the PS3 in Europe on March 23 according to GamesIndustry.biz. If you may recall, Sony delayed the launch of the PS3 in Europe because of component shortages.



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Hate to say it but....
By DeathBUA on 1/16/2007 11:26:57 AM , Rating: 2
It's the price.

People aren't going to pony up 500 or 600 bucks and JUST get the system.

All my older co-workers(as in the ones with kids) refuse to drop that much money for a game system...




RE: Hate to say it but....
By rushfan2006 on 1/16/2007 11:33:55 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. The more mature gamer crowd -- are the highest % group least likely to drop $600 on a game console. Its the obsessed PS fans and the younger people who have no issue dropping this much money on these systems. Things after all are much different when you don't support yourself, don't pay mortgage, don't pay your own bills, have to put food on the table, etc.

So all the "uber" features of the PS3.....means nothing in the end to a large portion of the populace -- who think only of the hefty price and that's the end of that decision.



RE: Hate to say it but....
By masher2 (blog) on 1/16/2007 11:40:29 AM , Rating: 2
I know two people who now own a PS3...both of which are 35+, and both of which bought the system more for the Blu-Ray drive than to use as a game console.

Certainly price is a factor in the slow sales. But the near-dearth of available games is a big part of it also.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By v3rt1g0 on 1/16/2007 3:19:15 PM , Rating: 2
Aye, which is exactly why I bought mine also.

From a price perspective, the cheapest standalone Blu-ray player is the exact same price as a PS3, and the PS3 also plays games, should any more come out in the future that are worth playing. I picked up Resistance:FoM, but have mostly used the console for watching movies in 1080p.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By sxr7171 on 1/16/2007 5:48:34 PM , Rating: 1
I bought it too only as a Blu-Ray player and guess what? I intend to never buy a game for it as long as I own it. I love it - I get a top notch Blu-Ray player, and cost Sony at least $300 in subsidy, and they will never make a dime off me.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By Kamasutra on 1/16/2007 6:04:39 PM , Rating: 2
Assuming you can't predict the future, I suppose you're going to go out of your way to avoid buying any movies from Sony Pictures.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By unlemming on 1/16/2007 11:40:45 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, they'll make quite a few dimes off every blu-ray disc you buy. You're supporting the Sony Evil Empire in more ways than you think :)


RE: Hate to say it but....
By smitty3268 on 1/16/2007 11:43:14 AM , Rating: 3
I think people would pay that much if there were actually some good games for it. But look at the market right now and you'll get a 360 instead. (Or a PS2 which is still outselling all the new consoles or a Wii which is a totally different experience)


RE: Hate to say it but....
By bplewis24 on 1/16/2007 2:19:58 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. While the price is daunting, the reality is that probably 90% of PS3 owners right now are either extremely loyal to the Playstation brand or are a/v enthusiasts who are using it as a stand-alone Blu Ray player.

The lack of great, exclusive game titles is what keeps people from paying the high price tag relative to other consoles. By mid-year I think the picture will become clearer as to whether or not people are willing to pay that price for a system that actually has some good-to-great apps on it.

Brandon


RE: Hate to say it but....
By One43637 on 1/16/07, Rating: 0
RE: Hate to say it but....
By rushfan2006 on 1/16/2007 2:45:24 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
resent the fact that you chose to label those that bought it as people that don't support themselves, pay bills or put food on my own table. i not only support myself and my chosen lifestyle, but don't come to forums and throw absurd blanket statements on those that choose what they want to do with their money.


Well there goes the "mature crowd" part of my comment. ;)

A little overly sensitive there don't you think bud? My comment was wasn't written as a dig to anyone, to find it as a dig I'd assume one must be extremely touchy. To that end - that problem isn't mine to deal with. Truthfully, I based my comment on what I have experienced in my area through conversations over the time since launch and now. I will not change my assertion thus far and I stand by my post.

And that is that.



RE: Hate to say it but....
By One43637 on 1/16/07, Rating: 0
RE: Hate to say it but....
By rushfan2006 on 1/16/2007 3:16:14 PM , Rating: 3
Not being overly sensitive huh?

ok....well you proof my point rather well.

But continue to start the argument you want to have...flame on...just proves my case further.



RE: Hate to say it but....
By rushfan2006 on 1/16/07, Rating: -1
RE: Hate to say it but....
By UsernameX on 1/16/2007 3:46:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And I hear shop rite has a special on Kleenex tissues....might want to pick up a box. ;)


If he is being oversensitivem then you are being childish for making this kind of comment. Good job being a hypocrite by igniting your own flame war.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By RedBeard on 1/16/2007 3:37:02 PM , Rating: 4
"CCRRRAAAAWWWLLLIINNNGGG IIINNN MMYYY SSSKKKIIINNN...."
"THESE WORDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL....."


RE: Hate to say it but....
By masher2 (blog) on 1/16/2007 5:12:46 PM , Rating: 2
> "it's ludacris of you to make such a general statement ..."

Ludacris is a rapper. Sorry to proofread, but I believe you mean ludicrous.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By One43637 on 1/16/2007 6:20:39 PM , Rating: 1
ah my mistake, Pandora was playing Ludacris, for some reason, while i was typing the reply out. thanks for catching it :)


RE: Hate to say it but....
By Tilmitt on 1/16/2007 8:03:51 PM , Rating: 2
I can't believe you are being modded down for posting in a polite and logical way. And they modded up rushfan2006 for his deflective embrassingly-got-owned-and-trying-to-cover-for-it post, this is truly absurd. I for one support you and want the horde of fanboys (i remain entirely convinced a bunch of Wii fanboys modded you down) who use the moderating system for their own distorted political ends to know that I doth oppose them!


RE: Hate to say it but....
By aGreenAgent on 1/17/2007 4:25:31 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, I think what the OP said was that the biggest demographic are people who don't have bills to pay, and are likewise obsessed with PS3.

He didn't say those are the only people who buy it. And because he labeled the biggest group of buyers something (without attributing yourself to said group), and you began to defend yourself (while also noting that you're not the demographic he was referring to) - he called you oversensitive.

I believe he has a point.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By edge929 on 1/16/2007 3:35:53 PM , Rating: 2
I'm also 27 and have been a hardcore gamer since the Atari 2600/NES days. I've owned almost every single mainstream console up to this last generation and I do not intend to buy a PS3 anytime soon for one reason: it's price. If anything, I AM a Sony fanboy.

I agree with that guys statement 99%. I do support myself but I do not have kids and my college loans are paid off already (5 year university). For the past 3 years I've played my PS2 and PC more than anything and until I have a VERY good reason to play games on the PS3, I will NOT pay $600 bucks for one (20GB is useless IMO unless you just want BD).

For the record, I do not own a Wii nor a 360. However, if I could find a Wii, I'd get it.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By michal1980 on 1/16/07, Rating: -1
RE: Hate to say it but....
By edge929 on 1/16/2007 3:56:35 PM , Rating: 2
It's useless for ME. No wifi? It's 2007 and no wifi? Fine, if that's yor cup of tea, buy that 100 foot cat6 cable and string it from the second floor cable modem to the living room. Just don't trip on it.

Gaming on my roommates 360 (gears of war) with wifi G has never been an issue, lag or otherwise.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By timmiser on 1/16/2007 5:20:21 PM , Rating: 2
Instead of whining about somebody's opinion in this public forum, why don't you contribute to the discussion and state why you, a 27 year old self supported, non-obsessive PS fan, chose to purchase a PS3 when other self supported people (generally speaking), have chosen not to purchase one?


RE: Hate to say it but....
By One43637 on 1/16/2007 6:28:53 PM , Rating: 2
my mistake, for now i use it as an inexpensive BR player. when exclusive games start coming out, that i find interesting, then i'll use it for that.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By timmiser on 1/17/2007 12:26:42 PM , Rating: 2
That seems to be the most common reasoning behind many purchases of the PS3 and the most common reason for people not purchasing it seems to be the price. Because of that, I am thinking that Microsoft's XBox 360 took the better approach by having the (expensive) HD drive as a seperate add on which appeases both groups of consumers.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By Samus on 1/17/2007 9:06:03 AM , Rating: 2
took the words out of my mouth:

ps3= 1 mortgage payment, or 3.5 car payments.

i'll keep my house and car kthxbye.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By therealnickdanger on 1/17/2007 1:09:41 PM , Rating: 2
Wow... where do you live? A cardboard box in Alaska? No offense meant, $500-600 for a mortgage just seems unrealistically low...


RE: Hate to say it but....
By CKDragon on 1/17/2007 1:18:02 PM , Rating: 2
About 2 seconds after I posted, it occurred to me that he/she likely bought the house before real estate prices went insane. Whoops.

CK


RE: Hate to say it but....
By CKDragon on 1/17/2007 1:15:46 PM , Rating: 2
I know I'll be completely hijacking this thread, but $600 is a mortgage payment for you? Wow, where do you live? Ha, I'm saving up for my first house but I can buy that as an investment property in the meantime. :P

I'm going to be looking at a $2500-3000 mortgage payment just to start out in a few years... boo Northern Virginia.

CK


RE: Hate to say it but....
By kelmon on 1/16/2007 11:42:28 AM , Rating: 3
This is the #1 reason why I won't be buying one when they hit the UK. As much as I enjoyed my PS2, my PS2 didn't cost anywhere near the same as the PS3 and I'm simply not prepared to pay that sort of money for a games console. I still consider the inclusion of Blu-Ray to be a mistake since it is believed to be the biggest reason for the cost since I have little to no interest in HD movies over DVDs. This console is charging me for features that I didn't want and I'm not prepared to pay for them.

While I've not bought a 360 or Wii either the Wii stands the biggest chance of seeing my money for the simple reasons that it looks like a laugh and it's affordable. The 360 can bugger off at its current price but I do expect it to reduce at some point and then it too might become a tempting buy.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By slickr on 1/16/07, Rating: -1
RE: Hate to say it but....
By edge929 on 1/16/2007 1:58:05 PM , Rating: 3
"If sony had gone with a normal DVD drive
and 40GB and 20GB HDD's the cost for sony's PS3 would have been 400$ and 500$"

You do realize that a stand-alone Blu-ray burner right now is $600 by itself right? Taking out the blu-ray drive would theoretically drop the price by half, not just $100 bone. Assuming that Sony still takes the ~$200 hit on these, they'd surely be cheaper than 4 and 5 hundred bucks. The blu-ray drive is the number 1 cost followed by the emotion engine/GPU and then the Cell processor.

12 million PS3s by the end of 2007? That will only be possible if they start selling like mad globablly.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By stromgald on 1/16/2007 11:55:17 AM , Rating: 2
I agree with most of the other posters that with more games and less expensive system, Sony would've been more successful. But, more games are usually made when more people have the console. With more games, more of the games are likely to be good, so its a vicious cycle up or down.

I honestly, think Sony could've priced the PS3 more aggressively. I realize that they lost money on the first hundred thousand or so consoles, but so did Microsoft. As production ramps up, the process gets more efficient and costs drop. I think Sony just wasn't willing to take the risk that their costs might not drop enough and wanted to get to making profit and out of the red quicker. Just dropping $50-100 off the price would've made it sell like crazy IMHO.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By Hydrofirex on 1/16/2007 1:00:41 PM , Rating: 2
I totally agree - the more of a loss they could have taken up front in the name of market penetration the more they could have been in a better position in 12 to 24 months to ensure that developers are aggressively releasing games for the system. People I've talked with are not interested in the system, or have returned it, becuase there are no compelling games for it yet. Further, though it may be a well-priced Blue Ray player I still have to wonder if anyone cares about that in a console. I think we can at least conclude at this point that Sony did indeed over-estimate the perceived value this would add to the console in the US where HD is just now starting to gain momentum. However, I think even Microsoft with the recent Xbox v2 rumors is realizing that in the long run next-gen gaming is obviously going to go HD.

Another good point on here is the the Xbox's lackluster sales in Japan. I think this is a main counter-point to any 'who won the the war' opinions: US sales are not the the only factor.

I have to wonder if Sony isn't trying to push too much at once. Do consumers want a Blue-Ray capable HTPC replacement gaming system all-in-one, or do they want a next-gen gaming platform? In trying to be all things to all consumers have they pushed the entry costs too high alienating the large audiences they sought. And this doesn't even get into the developer issues...

I'm still holding that Sony is taking a Long-Run stratagy, Microsoft is taking a mass-market stratagy, and Nintendo is taking a Short-Run stratagy. So far the novelty on the Wii doesn't seem to be diminishing, and the mass-marketability of the Xbox seems to be working in the US. I don't think US consumers look at the PS3 as anything more than an over-priced console, which is bad for Sony who I think hoped consumers would be impressed with it's more robust feature set. But, perhaps in a year or two the quality of games and features on the PS3 will begin to overshadow the other 2 systems... or, it'll just be another drawn out red-ink project for Sony.

HfX


RE: Hate to say it but....
By h0kiez on 1/16/2007 1:27:54 PM , Rating: 3
You two are nuts. It doesn't matter how much market penetration they get or how many consoles they sell if they are losing $200-$300 per console sold. How many games do you really expect the average person to buy? Games are $60, but between manufacturing and shipping costs (minimal), plus...hello...the developer and publisher(usually NOT Sony) get a large cut, I'm guessing (someone please let me know if you have solid info on this) Sony already needs people to buy 8 - 10 games over the life of the system just to break even on their manufacturing costs. That's a pretty darn darn deep hole to dig. The PS3 is already a heck of a value for the hardware inside at $500 & $600...it just happens that in the PS3's case, most people don't care about the Blu-Ray, most people don't want to spend that much money, and there is a total of 1 decent game on the system.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By stromgald on 1/16/2007 3:39:26 PM , Rating: 2
Sony is losing money on consoles now, but the more they sell, the less they'll be losing on each console. Why? It's called economies of scale. If they build more, they order more bulk parts. That goes all the way up their chain of suppliers so as production ramps up, the costs drop.

The exact thing happened with the XBox360, which lost money for at least six months IIRC before they started turning profit on each console. I'm not sure if Sony is making money now, or how many consoles they have to sell until they get to a point where they're turning profit, but they could've easily priced it lower and taken a bigger hit now for future profits and deeper market penetration.

What I'm saying is way more risky, and Sony probably had analysts determine the 'sweet' spot. But obviously, since they're not selling as fast as they expected, they would probably revise their pricing now, but hindsight is 20/20.

In terms of profit, I'm not looking at games being developed and market penetration to bring about profits. The major effect early market penetration is how it contributes to the Network Effect (go wiki it if you don't know what it is). When more people have it, other people will want to have it. Sony came up short on their initial market penetration, so growth is slower than expected now. Cost is irrelevant if you can drive up the value or at least the perceived value of the item to match the cost. The iPod is a classic example of the Network Effect.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By Sulphademus on 1/16/2007 4:01:18 PM , Rating: 2
I think a lot of it has to do with the HD shift. I'm glad Sony and Microsoft are pushing for it and I think it is paying off a little but I don’t see the issue as HD gaming. I think the issue is HD movies.

The install base for HDTVs is steadily growing and with the digital changeover coming (2009 now?) everyone is going to have to switch or buy converter boxes or write their representative to vote to push the date back again. The problem is DVD's. About 10 years ago everyone said you had to ditch your VHS tapes and get your movies again on DVD. Took a bit but people have accepted this. Now 5 years later (not 5 years as an industry but 5 years after most people accepted DVDs and chucked the VCR) the world is telling them to dump their DVD collection and buy BluRay or HDDVD.

Sony is selling the PS3 as a game player and thus having a defacto install base for the High Def DVD war. They are eating it on the diode costs because they want the royalties from BluRay if it beats HDDVD.

People may be used to buying PCs every 2 to 4 years but they sure as hell arent used to buying a new TV, media-whatever player, and collection of films every 2 to 4 years.


RE: Hate to say it but....
By h0kiez on 1/16/2007 1:37:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
honestly, think Sony could've priced the PS3 more aggressively. I realize that they lost money on the first hundred thousand or so consoles, but so did Microsoft.


Also, the complete paragraph containing the above quote is ludicrous. The first hundred thousand or so? Are you suggesting that since they've sold a million (or whatever it currently is), that they have long since been making money on each console? Replace 100,000 with 10 million and you might begin to make sense. And I could be wrong, but I'm guessing people would still view a $549 console as expensive...


RE: Hate to say it but....
By stromgald on 1/16/2007 3:48:53 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, but I don't keep up with the numbers either. I was making a point. It doesn't matter what the number is. If they made it cheaper (i.e. only $100 or $150 more than the Xbox360) they would've sold more. The more they sell, the sooner they will get to their break-even point. Selling more also has the added benefit of pressuring developers to create games for the console more and also works into the Network Effect.

Therefore, I'm saying they missed their targets of sales volume because they didn't price aggressively enough. I don't necessarily blame Sony since it would've been riskier on their part, and its easy to say from my point of view when my company isn't on the line. Nevertheless, its obvious now that they didn't price aggressively enough.



RE: Hate to say it but....
By Micronite on 1/16/2007 3:36:32 PM , Rating: 2
We Dailytech usuals are really the exception, not the rule.

My guess is that to most people Blu-Ray is something they saw at Best Buy or saw before watching the new "Pirates" movie. They won't really know why they might want it and that the PS3 is the cheapest way to get it.

Additionally, if you don't know anything about "geek stuff" and your kid wants "Dance Dance Revolution" for Christmas, you'll probably go with the cheapest option.

Once prices come down to a reasonable level and people understand what they're buying and why, we may see the numbers increase.

And remember kids:
Consoles don't sell consoles. Games sell consoles.


Blu Ray
By daftrok on 1/16/2007 1:30:56 PM , Rating: 2
The more Blu Ray drives produced will bring the price down. Sony supposedly made over 2 million of them already, I am not 100% sure of the price cut because of this, but they have also made 2 million Cell processors. Give it just a few more months, and I bet that they will bring the price down to the 399.99 and 499.99 price mark.




RE: Blu Ray
By hstewarth on 1/16/2007 2:56:57 PM , Rating: 2
What Sony should do is strip out all the game features in the PS3 and make a lower price united dedicated for only showing Blu-Ray movies ( or at least primary ). I have a PS3 and I primary like and use it for showing Movie theater. HD DVD is on the hurt right now and a lower price Blu-Ray player would nail HD DVD coffen.

What makes Blu-Ray expensive is not the Blu-Ray but the hardare requirements to support 1080p, HD DVD has 1080p player as its also as expensive as Blu-Ray players.

I also have XBox 360 HD DVD player and yes it will play them - but Microsoft should have included HDMI output on it. Or atleast an HDMI cable with 1080p output option. Purchasing a new console is not an option since I already have 360 console.

On the sales, well low supply of parts in Christmas season help, as for 360, the stores were taking advantage of situation and try switch bate customers with 360. As for the Wii, well if you take in count of cost the PS3 sold the same amount in dollars.


RE: Blu Ray
By Oregonian2 on 1/16/2007 3:00:55 PM , Rating: 2
And they need to push this blu ray advantage while it still is one. It appears that HD is winning the HDTV disk race. After it becomes more clear and widespread, the blu ray disk in the PS3 becomes a liability.


RE: Blu Ray
By hstewarth on 1/16/2007 3:10:04 PM , Rating: 2
Please check the following site, HD DVD is not winning this war. It is loosing it. In the next 4 months of so, Blu-Ray has about 4 times the number releases. Also the Studios are backing Blu-Ray. Why do you think Warner is coming out with TotalHD - in hope to get some Blu-Ray studios on the HD DVD format.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/

By the way, Blu-Ray sales have seen 700% increase in sales since the introduction of PS3.

Just check the release schedules and news sections on the site and you can the trend. This was a different story in 2006, something happen.


RE: Blu Ray
By hstewarth on 1/16/2007 3:18:54 PM , Rating: 2
One more thing I have the following on my Sony 46in 1080p HDTV and in my opinion the quality level is the following order.

1. PS3 Blu-Ray
2. DirecTV HD DVR
3. XBox 360 HD DVD
4. Standard DVD
5. Standard TV

DirecTV and 360 HD DVD is probably too close to tell when at 1080i. 360 does not support 1080p because it requires HDMI cable. It may work better on VGA cable. I should try it.

Keep in mind also that on most non 1080p TV, 1080i resolution is less because these tvs run at less resolution - say 1280x720 or 1366x850 or so. which means that the 1080i signal is scalled down. Even so the 1080p on Blu-Ray is uncompressed and looks far better than normal HDTV.



RE: Blu Ray
By AlexWade on 1/16/2007 3:44:10 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Please check the following site, HD DVD is not winning this war. It is loosing it. In the next 4 months of so, Blu-Ray has about 4 times the number releases. Also the Studios are backing Blu-Ray. Why do you think Warner is coming out with TotalHD - in hope to get some Blu-Ray studios on the HD DVD format.


Universal has yet to release their HD DVD schedule yet. But there are 300 HD DVD movies planned. HD DVD is still outselling Blu-Ray, but the chasm is now a tiny gap.


RE: Blu Ray
By hstewarth on 1/16/2007 5:22:18 PM , Rating: 2
Yes Universal is the only of the 7 major studios that has not done Blu-Ray. Disney including Pixar has not and none planned to release on HD DVD.

Please look at the above link and check the release schedules for both HD DVD and Blu-Ray.

Please provide links for statements about sales figures. It mikght be true in 2006 that HD DVD was a head of Blu-Ray with a 2 month production lead - but not in 2007. This year things have change. If you know of better resource than link provided, please provide it.


RE: Blu Ray
By edge929 on 1/16/2007 3:52:19 PM , Rating: 2
Disclaimer: I could care less who wins the format war. I own neither.

Let me get this right, you gave a link to a blu-ray biased site about blu-ray winning the format war? Is that accurate?

Maybe once I get my 80" DLP/Plasma/LCD combo TV with 12x HDMI connections, built-in toaster/washer/dryer and afterburners I'll consider getting one of those HD-DVD/BD combo players, that is, if my god-TV doesn't already have one built in.


RE: Blu Ray
By hstewarth on 1/16/2007 5:32:19 PM , Rating: 2
The site is not bias for Blu-Ray - in fact before 2007, I thought it was bias toward HD DVD. The site provides reviews and news for both formats.

The following is the link for HD DVD, which is on the same site by just clicking HD DVD. Just because the web address has blu-ray in the name does not mean its bias. If so the following link ( same people ) would be bias towords HD DVD.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/news/


PS3 as a Blu-ray player?
By Hooz on 1/16/2007 1:08:21 PM , Rating: 2
What is the point of paying for all of PS3's "advanced features" if you can't use them?

I thought about buying a PS3 (I see them everywhere I go these days) specifically because it is the cheapest Blu-ray player around. Then I did some research... My 1-year-old HDTV doesn't support 1080p, and without a built-in scaler, 1080p Blu-ray titles on the PS3 default to 480p. So for me, what would be the point? Spend $400-500 so I can watch Blu-ray at 480p? Nah.

For now I am more than happy with my Wii and Xbox 360 w/HD-DVD drive (and hardware scaler!).




RE: PS3 as a Blu-ray player?
By Lakku on 1/16/2007 1:12:18 PM , Rating: 2
It outputs at 1080i, not sure where you saw it only does 1080p. My complaint, as I mentioned above, is that it doesn't do 720p for BD. It used to force 720p if you told the system to, but now if you have 1080i enabled in the settings, the PS3 will output BD movies at 1080i. If you disable 1080i and try to force 720p, it downsamples to 480p. It's really idiotic, but if your TV can do 1080i, the PS3 can play the movies at 1080i. I just prefer 720p.


RE: PS3 as a Blu-ray player?
By Lakku on 1/16/2007 1:13:58 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know why this posted to here, as I clicked reply to mforce2's response below. Sorry for the confusion.


RE: PS3 as a Blu-ray player?
By hstewarth on 1/16/2007 3:26:12 PM , Rating: 2
!!!FALSE!!! PS3 with out any question outputs 1080p. I have both 360 and PS3 and only the PS3 outputs 1080p.
I am excluding the 360's VGA cable.

There is some issues with HDMI, first of all you need a high quality cable to get 1080p support. Also be aware of automatic settings, it can set the wrong setting, if it dows - check for updates and if still problem use the Manual option.

For other issue, check updates. I also have a 720p projector and notice no problems with HD Modes on it.

I recently purchase a Sony 46 in 1080p TV - because of the PS3 Blu-Ray ability. I would also recommend the Remote. It is also my primary DVD player.


RE: PS3 as a Blu-ray player?
By dubldwn on 1/16/2007 5:08:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
!!!FALSE!!! PS3 with out any question outputs 1080p. I have both 360 and PS3 and only the PS3 outputs 1080p.

No, he's saying if you're display doesn't do 1080p, the ps3 has no problem outputting 1080i.
quote:
For other issue, check updates. I also have a 720p projector and notice no problems with HD Modes on it.

He's saying that the PS3 doesn't output BD in 720p, forcing his projector to scale the image, which is undesirable, especially if your projector's internal scaler is poor. Based on the last I read here at DT, that is still true and isn't likely to be reconciled.


RE: PS3 as a Blu-ray player?
By hstewarth on 1/16/2007 5:26:57 PM , Rating: 2
I have 720p Projector and PS3 has no problem outputing Blu-Ray movies at 720p. It was definely better than 480p which it can do with standard TV and my projecter indicated it was 720p. My Sony 1080p was even better - so these rumors about PS3 are definely bad rumors - at least it works in both of my HD units. I am running 1.31 on my PS3, not sure about it without the update however.


RE: PS3 as a Blu-ray player?
By bplewis24 on 1/16/2007 2:32:42 PM , Rating: 2
You couldn't have done too much research...because that is untrue.

Brandon


By vdig on 1/16/2007 12:21:27 PM , Rating: 2
Just as the PS3 is not flying off the shelves here in the N of A, the 360 is having trouble being adopted in Japan. To be fair, the 360 is having a relatively tougher time over in Japan than the Sony PS3 in North America, partially due to the fact that Japan likes pushing their own companies rather than foreign ones - they put foreign titles and machines in a different, less conspicuous location. MS must be grateful that Blue Dragon is allowing for the majority of the sales they do have.

Still, as soon as more exclusive, or 360 outperforming, titles come to the PS3, more people will pick up the PS3. Guaranteed. Especially true for PSP owners like me. I hope someone enables homebrew on the console soon. That would ALMOST justify a purchase at the moment. I still think Sony did rather poorly at launch.




By dijuremo on 1/16/2007 12:39:59 PM , Rating: 2
At this point, people may also be cautious about buying a 360 because of the enhancements that are comming:

CPU reduction to 65nm (FACT)
HDD upgrade to 120GB (Upgrade is a FACT, but size is still speculation)
HDMI upgrade (Speculation, prototype pictures leaked).

Like someone else said, the PS3 is lacking games. There are some excellent titles that will be released in the next few months and only those could save the PS3 future. Remember that most of the success of the PS2 is due to the high number of titles available, so if the game production increases with nice titles, we may see the PS3 pick up sales quickly. I would really like to get Motorstorm, the Formula 1 game and Lair. I was not going to buy a PS3 until march when these games are released, but happened to be lucky and snatched one online at regular cost last December. However, I find myself playing more with the Wii than the PS3 (after having finished Resistance).


By aos007 on 1/16/2007 2:28:19 PM , Rating: 2
You *can* do "homebrew" on PS3. Just install linux on it. I did it myself when I got mine.

Now, granted, it's not too useful due to lack of even 2D acceleration. Getting media playback to work is really painful and it doesn't work satisfactorily, for video at least. But it is a full blown linux and you can use it for any general purpose computing. People have installed emulators like MAME and played some games.

For me personally, though, until media playback over the network can be done without frame rate issues, linux on PS3 is mostly useless. I am regretting the purchase, since there are many outstanding issues with the console right now.


By ViperROhb34 on 2/13/2007 4:32:46 PM , Rating: 2
To be fair, the 360 is having a relatively tougher time over in Japan than the Sony PS3 in North America,
True, but the 360 is selling well EVERYWHERE else In which its on sale. The PS3 is only selling 'well' in Japan. And the profile of most European families that bought PS2's make 30-40k a year.. They can't afford PS3.. To make matters worse the PS3 will be more expensive in Europe then the USA ( which the USA PS3 cost more then Japan ) ..And .. it depends on your defintion of selling 'well' since the PS2 is outselling the PS3 is Japan and the Wii is outselling both of those in Japan. Sony says it has shipped 1 million units in Japan, but its only sold about 600k in Japan..

Still, as soon as more exclusive, or 360 outperforming, titles come to the PS3, more people will pick up the PS3. Guaranteed . This is your opinion alone. On G4 there was a recent video that had two sides that were supposed to debate. One Japanese developer and one American developer.. at the end they both agreed PS3 would still be in 3rd place in one year. They also both agreed Exclusives on PS3 will be rare. Even SQUARE ENIX (Final Fanatasy) has a NEW MMO coming out for Xbox 360 and they are only considering it for the PS3. If Square who has been firmly in Sony's pocket the last decade is saying only "maybe" to PS3 this isn't good. In order for there to be exclusives companies have to feel they wil make PLENTY of money off that ONE CONSOLE back.. Developers have complained its harder and more costly to develop for the PS3.. They seem to be reluctant to take risk. It's a vicious cycle like what happened to Nintendo after Super Nintendo. Developers don't make exclusives - they don't buy the console - developers make even less games for the console - they port less games. Right now most of the good games for PS3 are ports from 360. I mean Resitance Fall of Man looks nearly the same as Gears on regular TV, but if you play them on a 50+ WIDESCREEN HD TV you can see Resistance Looks more like Call of Duty 2 quality compared to Gears !





By ViperROhb34 on 2/13/2007 4:41:05 PM , Rating: 2
Touching on PS3 sales again.. I was reading at destructoid.com and a poster from Chile was commenting Ont eh recent ludricrous statement by the Sony exec ( to the interviewer ) that if they could find a PS3 in North America on the shelves for more then a couple minutes he'd pay them 1200 for it..

He said he lives in Chile and no one is buying PS3. They cost too much. Chile in in SOuth America by the way.. PS3 is only selling "ok" in Japan ! LOL The beta VCR surived in Japan till about 6yrs ago it was on sale. Japanese people like their own things. It doesnt mean PS3 will sell like PS2. Ps2 really only competed against N64 which had PS'3 problem - few exclusives. PS2 also has enjoyed steady strong sales due to its release in China 2-3yrs ago.. In China the PS2 is "New"


Too Exspensive
By fijillian on 1/16/2007 1:37:33 PM , Rating: 2
I will not be getting one till the price drops. With car payments, insurance, food & utilities, rent, the PS3 is just too much, I could care less about fanboys saying its better than xbox * wii but I'm guessing these fanboys (or not) either don't have a family or are in debt (after making the purchase plus game, acessories) or just are single & have money to throw about but for me I have responsibilities.




RE: Too Exspensive
By h0kiez on 1/16/2007 1:44:07 PM , Rating: 2
You gotta listen more...most of the "fanboys" agree that the PS3 is a flop.


RE: Too Exspensive
By vdig on 1/16/2007 1:57:14 PM , Rating: 2
I just wish everyone knew that. My brother is not even a fanboy, and he still thinks the PS3 will be the most successful of the big three. He does not view it as a flop, regardless of the numbers or general performance. I mention the lack of titles, and he shrugs.

I'm hoping that the titles are coming, otherwise I am sure the PS3 will remain a flop.


RE: Too Exspensive
By hstewarth on 1/16/2007 3:04:56 PM , Rating: 2
PS3 is not really a flop, just there is a lot of people on the net that don't like Sony.

Here is how I see the PS3 sales issues now.

1. Low supply and bad news of eBay pushes hurt Holiday sales
2. Jan and Feb are normally how times for sales
3. Cost is higher than most people will spend
4. Cost is not bad if you think of it more than game console
5. The # of games for system is rather low, more games would help the situation.

It is very hard to compare it to 360, if you do you should compare it to 1 year ago. In which it was in similar situation with low supply, not many games and nobody had them.

I have both of these units and I like PS3 because all components are in one unit plus PS3 has the HDMI option.


Wii will outsell ps3 for a while
By Lazarus Dark on 1/16/2007 11:48:59 AM , Rating: 2
Wii has the novelty of its controller and the buzz is that everyone has a blast playing it. And its relatively cheap compared to the ps3 and 360. There seems to be a lack of good games for the ps3, it has numerous bugs, and really, without a hdtv, which not many have, its not really worth the expense.

Yesterday I went to Target. They were out of Wii's but had 5 ps3's sitting there. I asked the clerk about them, he said they sold one in the last week and a half. But the wii's sold out in half a day when they got the last shipment. All this could change if the novelty of wii's controller wears off in six months and ps3 fixes bugs and gets new games. But there is still the price issue. Wii is already profitable and could be 200 by next christmas, but ps3 is likely to remain at 600 for a couple years considering how much its losing and they dont even have enough software to sell to recoup the loss.




By Spivonious on 1/16/2007 12:40:06 PM , Rating: 2
I've had the same experience. No Wiis, tons of PS3s.

Something else that no one mentions is controller sales. I simply cannot find a nunchuck to go with my second wii remote. It's a very good sign when the systems and controllers are sold out almost three months after launch.

I simply can't see spending $600 for a system that has one game (RFoM) and can play blu-ray movies. Perhaps if I had an HDTV it would be more appealing to me. For now, the Wii is the system on top.

If anyone has yet to play a Wii, please give it a try. I have had more fun playing games on it than I have in quite a few years. The new controller makes even stale genres (see CoD3) seem fresh again.


RE: Wii will outsell ps3 for a while
By vdig on 1/16/2007 1:34:14 PM , Rating: 2
Dog chewed my nunchucks (2), which leaves me unable to enjoy the more complex Wii titles for a while. However, while the Wii is generally fun for bursts, baring the Zelda title, of course, the hardcore experience still has not yet arrived properly. Expect Metroid Prime 3 to help that along quite nicely.

Hardcore game that is quite good - Gears of War. Great for quickly jumping into frag-fests both online and off. With the new pack available for download, I don't expect Gears to drop off the radar anytime soon.

PS3 has virtually no niche other than the fanboy type to support them at the moment, because the software roster just is not there. Such a shame really. I have found the Sony platform to be the place for RPGs of the offline variety. Here's hoping the PS3 titles come hard and fast to keep them afloat.

I don't worry about Nintendo at all. I worry about MS in Japan. I worry for Sony in general. That is all.


HAHA
By zsouthboy on 1/16/2007 11:59:29 AM , Rating: 2
"Poor Holiday Sales"

That's the only sales of the system there HAVE been so far! That's like me releasing something the 5th, and complaining on the 6th that the 5th's sales were below expectation.




With the way things are looking...
By tk109 on 1/16/2007 12:13:01 PM , Rating: 2
I expect many more and larger cuts in the future...




I'm not analyst, but...
By ajfink on 1/16/2007 12:31:09 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know what a lot of professional market analysts are saying, but it seems to me that the PS3 has already lost this round of the "console wars." Unless Sony drops -at least- $100 off the price tag soon they're going to consistently lose ground to the 360 and Wii.




My PS3 update
By tarv on 1/16/2007 2:56:39 PM , Rating: 2
I have seen alot of reports so I went to my local best buy in the next town over, I live in a small town with now major electronic store that carries Wii or PS3. I asked the local store guy if they had any Wii's, they had the demo unit up working fine. They said no they are sold out but should be getting more steady shipments later in February. They did have a few PS3 60gig versions in stock and the demo unit was overheated. So my experience kind of mirrors what I have been reading from other people. This kind of shows me that demand for the PS3 just isn't there like it is for the Wii.




Gentoo
By Kishkumen on 1/16/2007 4:26:46 PM , Rating: 2
I'd be willing to spend up to $400 just to run Linux on it. If/When the price comes down a bit and I can also play Blu Ray movies in Linux, it might make an awsome MythTV frontend. I remain optimistic, but it's probably too much to hope for at least as far as the Blu Ray support goes.




Sony is in deep trouble
By borowki on 1/16/2007 6:20:01 PM , Rating: 2
It looks like demand for the PS3 is even weaker in Japan. If they shipped the millionth console today, while total sales to Jan 7 in Japan is 527,502, that means there're upwards of 400,000 PS3's sitting on Japanese store shelves. If they don't cut the price soon they'll soon be sitting on a mountain of unsold consoles. What a disaster! Though I guess at least there won't be supply problem for the European launch...




No Sale Here
By corporal linko on 1/17/2007 1:37:07 AM , Rating: 2
I am a huge techie and usually an early adopter. I have owned everything from the 2600, Atari Jaguar, Turbo Express, etc.
I currently own a Wii and a 360, but most of my time is spent with my pc. For $600.00 I can do some really nice upgrades to my pc. But right now I am tapped out. Christmas, kid getting braces, gas prices, Dish raising there prices soon, wife going back to college, on and on. I picked up the 360 for free with a gift card from work(for a job well done) the Wii was my kids christmas present. I think Sony counted on consumers with bottomless pockets and the gotta have the hottest and coolest gadget factor. Nintendo stole their gotta have it thunder for a lot less, Microsoft isn't going away like Sony would like to think(uncle Bill's company has deep cash reserves and looks to be in for the long haul). I can't see Sony cutting prices any time soon, the battery recall really hurt them, they have a lot more competion in the consumer electronics market then days past. Companies like Samsung, L.G., Panasonic and the little guys making flat panel T.V.'s have really put a huge dent in their sales. They can't take a long term loss like Microsoft can on a product, they just don't have the reserves that they use to. Game developers are bitching about the difficulty and cost to develop games on the PS3. Sony really needs a good PR campaign to start getting consumers back. They are just taking a beating lately. If somebody gave me $600.00 right now and said you have to buy yourself something with it, it would be a Geforce 8800. Will totally crunch any game you throw at it, puts the consoles to shame.




Huge Fallacy
By androticus on 1/17/2007 8:38:34 PM , Rating: 2
I keep seeing comments over and over like, "Yeah, but I bought my PS3 as a BluRay player"... blah blah blah.

The point of these comments seems to be to try to assert that Sony will make up sales it might lose to gamers (due to its high price) from people who buy it as a BR player.

The problem, is that it is extremely doubtful that substantial numbers of people will actually buy it as a standalone BR player -- i.e., people who would never have bought it as a game console, but who are looking for a BR player. That techie types in these forums do is not at all indicative of broader consumer trends.

The issue should be plain and obvious: the PS3 is WAY too expensive for many gamers (or parents buying for the gamer.) The fact it has a BR player is not particularly relevant to most of those consumers. Conversely, argue till you are Blu (hehe) in the face about what a great "value" it is as a standalone BR player vs. today's dedicated players -- the fact is that most consumer electronics customers are not going to buy a game machine to play movies -- it is still way too early in the marketing of BR for there to be a stampede of people at $600 where there are few at $1000. And by the time the players (or even one model) come down to $600 (and how long can that be??? mere months now???) then consumers with no interest in gaming will have little to zero incentive to buy a PS3 as a BR player. Who wants to bother trying to fathom what are the many possible disadvantages of buying a device whose primary purpose is something else, in order to achieve a secondary purpose? Most people's experience with secondary features is probably that they are inferior to dedicated or primary devices (ex., an MP3 playing capability in a portable camera or GPS unit, etc.)

The best Sony can do now is realize this is a big mistake, and focus as much effort as possible on reducing the retail price of the machine to something more competitive in the product space (ex. more along the lines of an XBox 360.)




Apple makes it look cheap
By mforce2 on 1/16/07, Rating: 0
RE: Apple makes it look cheap
By h0kiez on 1/16/2007 1:43:10 PM , Rating: 1
Geez...trying it justify the PS3's price by comparing it to an unreleased Apple wireless phone is...um...well let's just say you probably didn't score well on the "analogies" section of your SATs did you?


Too Much Technology
By Nik00117 on 1/16/2007 3:10:47 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, i'm sure 90% of the people that buy the PS3 did it for one of the following reasons
1. Cheap Blu-ray player
2. PS fan
3. Is rich and wanted one

Frankly Sony went to high end on this one... I'm sorry I really don't care for a blu ray player and all this good fancy stuff. If i want a next gen console I want it to play games, not to watch the lastest BLU RAY MOVIE! (What a joke) They should of kept to DVD i'm sorry but going to Blu ray was a mistake.

Sony shouldn't of gone such high tech. And if you think they will sell well come March 23 your a moron. Most european gamers are ticked they had to wait this long and bought the Wii or just gave into the xbox 360.

Plus the PS3 doesn't really have any titles that most poeple crave.

599 IS TOO MUCH I think they should of done like a 499 and a 399 and it'd of sold a lot better.




RE: Too Much Technology
By michal1980 on 1/16/07, Rating: -1
The problem with internet spreading rumors is...
By michal1980 on 1/16/07, Rating: -1
By Spivonious on 1/16/2007 12:42:44 PM , Rating: 1
I guess your area is different then. Everywhere I go has at least 3 PS3s sitting in the display case. One BestBuy even had actual systems stacked in an 8x8x4 cube. Who's to say how long they lasted there, but just try to find a store that can keep the Wii in stock longer than a few hours.


RE: The problem with internet spreading rumors is...
By VIAN on 1/16/2007 1:17:23 PM , Rating: 2
From the many gamestops I've visited in my area, they say the Wii sells out within 30 minutes of entering the store.


RE: The problem with internet spreading rumors is...
By h0kiez on 1/16/2007 1:33:43 PM , Rating: 2
For anybody wondering, Michael1980 has posted 274 comments and has an average comment rating of -.57...I thought that was funny. Also, in only 10 more days, it will have been exactly 6 months since his last comment that wasn't rated all the way down to -1...that last brilliant comment only got rated down to 0. Nice going genius, you obviously have a lot to contribute around here.


By Spivonious on 1/16/2007 1:49:58 PM , Rating: 2
I would not classify myself as PS3 basher, nor as a "wii-boii". From my perspective your posts are rated down because most of them are simple troll posts designed to incite flame wars.


RE: The problem with internet spreading rumors is...
By geeg on 1/16/2007 2:09:19 PM , Rating: 1
whats wrong with that?


By MrDiSante on 1/16/2007 6:37:44 PM , Rating: 2
Judging by the rating on his and your posts - everything.


By geeg on 1/17/2007 9:25:26 AM , Rating: 2
his average: 2.08, my average: 2.1, your average: 1.78.
I say: LOL.


By bplewis24 on 1/16/2007 2:36:07 PM , Rating: 2
I think everybody's areas are different. I went into a Best Buy, Toys R Us, and Gamestop last weekend and there was a grand total of 1 unit between all 3 stores (it was at the Gamestop).

I live in a big city, so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. For the people that have seen "tons" of them on the shelves, are you in big or little cities or what?

Brandon


By zombiexl on 1/16/2007 3:28:53 PM , Rating: 2
I live in pittsburgh and I saw 3 at best buy as recently as noon today. On friday one local Toys R Us had 20 (yes 20) in stock.

Gamestop has 4. They tell me people returned a few they bought for ebay sales that didnt sell.


By drxploder on 1/16/2007 4:59:10 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't believe the rumors either until I saw 3 PS3's at one walmart, 2 at another, 3 in a Target, one at Best Buy, and one at Gamestop. I saw all of that in the span of two days and all were 60gb units except for the one at Best Buy.

Even my dad is having trouble selling the 20GB PS3 he bought and he was trying to sell it for $550. (I warned him...)


By Spivonious on 1/16/2007 12:55:08 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and about your price drop theories...

Sony loses over $200 on each console, so until that difference is made up there will be zero price drops on the console. Look at XB360: MS just now started making money on it. I'm looking for a price drop around springtime, or perhaps a bundled game.


By VIAN on 1/16/2007 1:26:34 PM , Rating: 2
And don't forget, if Sony's price drops, MS can much easier also drop their price. If ever there was a 360 available for 200-250 bucks, it would be over. Next gen consoles for a real mainstream price!

However, I don't expect a pricedrop from MS. I think they're going to keep the prices up until either the PS3 drops in price or their sales lower. But I do think they're gonna add value to their current systems with new features while keeping the same prices.


By Lakku on 1/16/2007 1:02:34 PM , Rating: 2
All I can say is that in my area, the 60gb models are easy to find. When I bought my 20gb version (just wanted BD really), I had to go to a number of stores to find it, so I got to see what everyone had. Two Targets had 2 each, two Gamestops had 3 and 2 (one store 3, other 2), and the Walmart I went to had a whopping 10 60GB models, and one 20gb model, which I snagged. The 20gb version actually is hard to find. But aside from all this, it doesn't change the fact I am pissed at Sony. I knew of the game scaling issues, but the latest update (1.32, or maybe it was in 1.3) did it to Blu-ray as well. People out of Japan and the US reported 720p output of BD worked fine when the PS3 launched, but Sony disabled it after the updates with no explaination. So, it's 1080i/p or 480p. I happen to own a 720p native projector, which scales 1080i very nicely and can output a PC signal at 1920x1200, but I prefer to use it at 720p. Well I can't, which is downright ridiculous for a $500 machine, when the 360 allows you to set what resolution you want and scales EVERYTHING to that resolution. Until Sony fixes this (it's rumored 720p playback of BD is horrible, as the PS3 has no hardware scaler and no software scaler yet), or explains why it was disabled, I will be pissed.


By Kefner on 1/16/2007 1:19:23 PM , Rating: 2
Well here in Baltimore, I have no problems finding PS3s. I've been looking for a Wii myself, and whenever I go into a game store and ask for one, I am always asked if I want a PS3 instead, cause "We have plenty of those". One store told me they have had 3 sitting on the shelf for 2 weeks. The Best Buy near me had a few PS3s stacked up last week when I was there. Just because you don't have them in your area, doesn't mean people are starting Internet rumors.

I do have a 360, and would love a PS3, but regretted paying 400 for my 360 (but still love it!) so I am not paying more than that for a PS3. I will hate paying 400 for it, but whenever the 600 dollar unit gets to 400 or below, I will probably pick one up.


By edge929 on 1/16/2007 2:06:51 PM , Rating: 1
Walked into one of two local Best buys and took a picture on my cell phone of 15 PS3s stacked up at one location and 10 at the second location. Give me your email address and I'll send those images over.

You know what, I'll do one better. Give me your home address and I'll ship one to you and make you pay exact shipping on it. Yes, I'm that nice.


By rushfan2006 on 1/16/2007 2:49:56 PM , Rating: 2
There are two EB Games stores within 4 miles of my house, one is 1 mile away...then there is a Game Stop a half mile from my house.

All three stores had a least 10 as of last week, the EBgames closest to me had at least 6 as of midnight last night (I was there for the World of Warcraft BC release, and yes I felt nerdy....lol...and yes it was the first time in 20 years of gaming I ever went to a midnight release of anything).



By AlexWade on 1/16/2007 3:41:56 PM , Rating: 2
My local Game Crazy has two USED PS3's in stock!


By hstewarth on 1/16/2007 3:32:17 PM , Rating: 2
To be honest, the difference between the 20G and 60G is not that big of difference if talking in drive space alone. PS3 has open disk drive architecture - so it very easy to replace with 120G drive. If you don't need the wrieless connection of media slots - the 60G is a waste of additional $100.

For Blu-Ray movies - it best to get the 20G.


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