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The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is the second government agency to leave BlackBerry this year

BlackBerry maker Research-In-Motion (RIM) has lost two U.S. government agency which used its services, and will now cut the fees it charges for BlackBerry service in an attempt to prevent anyone else from leaving. 

Last month, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced that it would let go of its BlackBerry servers by June 2012 in an effort to cut costs. And we recently reported that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is following suit. 

RIM has its own network infrastructure where it can encrypt, compress and direct data to BlackBerry devices through its cellular network. This seemed ideal for the workplace, where BlackBerry phones quickly became popular.

However, fees that RIM charges carriers for the BlackBerry service has put a bit of financial strain and headache on those carriers. Also, competition like Apple's iOS and Google's Android-based smartphones are beginning to be used in the workplace, and offer more user-friendly features as well as improved security features without the added costs of the BlackBerry service. In other words, BlackBerry devices are not the only suitable professional smartphones on the block anymore.


[Source: karenvaughn.com]

RIM now says it plans to slash the fees it charges carriers for BlackBerry service at some point this year in an effort to save itself from losing anymore customers. It also plans to introduce its BlackBerry 10 smartphones in late 2012 as well as new software called Mobile Fusion, which allows "core enterprise customers" to manage the company's competitors' devices.

RIM was also hit hard last October when BlackBerry customers around the world experienced a service blackout. Customers from the U.S., Canada, South America, Europe, the Middle East, India, and Africa had problems with messaging and browsing for four days, which can be detrimental in a workplace.

RIM is clearly beginning to feel the pressure, as RIM shares fell 4.3 percent to $13.20 on Monday afternoon. Since February 2011, RIM has lost 80 percent of its value because of its unimpressive product launches and bleak earnings as well as reduced U.S. market share.

Source: Reuters



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Stupid move
By amanojaku on 3/6/12, Rating: 0
RE: Stupid move
By MeesterNid on 3/6/2012 12:03:41 PM , Rating: 2
So you'd have them continue losing business, but by golly they'll keep their fee structure in place...all way down into bankruptcy court! Since, as you said, their hardware is very dated they have to lower fees in order to attract business and/or stop hemorrhaging customers.

quote:
If you weren't, you're operating at a loss now.


Really? How about a lower profit margin? Still making money just not as much though better than nothing.


RE: Stupid move
By Cerin218 on 3/6/2012 2:16:46 PM , Rating: 1
No, I want them to go out of business because their phones are a PITA to administer. I appreciate that their phones can't do what everything else does natively and that is sync with Exchange. I know why, but unless you work for the government 95% of the people that use Blackberry don't need that level of security. It's fun when the end user randomly gets their calendar and contacts corrupted for no particularly good reason too. Every time we get a help desk call about a Blackberry we are torn between cringing and laughing. Won't be saddened at all when they finally croak.


RE: Stupid move
By dark matter on 3/6/2012 5:48:24 PM , Rating: 2
You need a different job if you don't like helping people with their technical issues.

Or, dare I say this, you would be out of a job if wasn't for people with technical issues.


RE: Stupid move
By Flunk on 3/6/2012 12:24:34 PM , Rating: 2
Nah, that's silly. iOS is a closed system. What they need to do is switch from rolling their own OS to taking Android, skinning it and adding a few apps. This will let them have all the advantages of selling modern Android phones with all the Blackberry services and they can still sell their hardware, which is where they make their money.


RE: Stupid move
By Flunk on 3/6/2012 12:27:23 PM , Rating: 2
I really though I hit reply to the thread about iOS.


RE: Stupid move
By retrospooty on 3/6/12, Rating: 0
RE: Stupid move
By omnicronx on 3/6/2012 2:37:04 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is people oversimplying something to prove their point.

You probably know damn well that the BES model does much more than what you have stated, without the use of third party tools which guess what, you have to pay for if you are using an exchange only model..(if they exist at all)

Not to say the exchange model cannot be more than enough for many users, but there are many benefits for using BES in large scale enterprise deployments.


RE: Stupid move
By Pirks on 3/6/2012 2:45:48 PM , Rating: 1
retro has no knowledge of basic facts about things like BBM, so don't expect lots of smart thoughts about RIM from him


RE: Stupid move
By retrospooty on 3/6/2012 3:16:58 PM , Rating: 1
"retro has no knowledge of basic facts about things like BBM, so don't expect lots of smart thoughts about RIM from him"

Actually, what I stated was true, and as for first hand knowledge, I am a network admin at a company that has a BES. It is actually part of my job to deal with it... Its being phased out. As users 2 year contracts are up, they get to choose their own phone. No-one is taking Blackberry.

Your just bent because you are backing a loser and have made way too much of an ass of yourself on the subject to back down now.

How's RIM doing lately? Stock at yrt another new alltime low, and RIM announced they wont be making thier already lowered sales expectations this quarter.


RE: Stupid move
By Pirks on 3/6/2012 3:21:43 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
what I stated was true
Your old BS about BBM being introduced in 2009 or so is as far from truth as it gets.


RE: Stupid move
By retrospooty on 3/6/2012 3:36:40 PM , Rating: 1
Ya, I had the date wrong on an irrelevant product that I dont use. What of it? how does that effect antything in this article?

Here is what is going on at RIM.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/03/05/r...

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2012/03/06/analyst...

When the quartlies come out at the end of this month it will be undeniable. Global drop in sales in and industry that is booming at an extraordinary rate.

Insults aside, this is really whats happening. The sales #'s alone wouldnt be an issue large enough to kill RIMM. RIMM has the sales to make profit and could stay afloat with some downsizing IF they werent so big. IF RIM were always the same size it would be OK, but since RIM was huge and many investors are losing too much money when the stock drops to less than 1 11th its previous value, they need to get thier money out.

Because of that RIM cant stagnate for anotehr year. They will be forced to sell it off so the investors get some amount of $$$ back. You watch. By 2012 there wont be a RIM, at least not an independant company called RIMM.


RE: Stupid move
By retrospooty on 3/6/2012 3:38:04 PM , Rating: 2
bah, bad typing. By the end of 2012 , RIM will be sold.


RE: Stupid move
By omnicronx on 3/6/2012 3:38:38 PM , Rating: 1
I'll be watching.. Watching RIM sell off their hardware assets and become a service-based company whose main product will be.. can you guess?? BES related services..


RE: Stupid move
By retrospooty on 3/6/2012 3:48:04 PM , Rating: 2
That is very possible. Or they could just sell off the patents and IP to another company, MS, Samsung, Google, someone with deep pockets that can use the IP. Either way, RIM cant continue as they are.


RE: Stupid move
By omnicronx on 3/6/2012 3:59:41 PM , Rating: 2
I think we can both agree that RIM will not be the company it is today ;)


RE: Stupid move
By Pirks on 3/6/2012 4:49:46 PM , Rating: 2
Could be said about any company though. Apple won't be the same, MS too. So what?


RE: Stupid move
By jimbojimbo on 3/6/2012 8:49:26 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not a big fan of BB but if you manage the company's BES you ought to be canned.

First off the BES not only gives you contacts, email, and calendar you also get tasks and notes which no phone right now, except Windows Mobile 6.x, has natively. That's a big thing.

Also, you forget the service provider towards the end of your flow. This makes things worse but I just wanted to mention it because it directly supports your argument yet you forgot it which is a major hop in the transport of information from BES to BB. This just shows you don't know anything.

Me, I manage Exchange and BES. Most companies know that they can use the "bring your device" strategy to hire and retain employees so user demand is in a way determining our policies. I'd say within another year we'll be almost completely off our BES and good riddance.


RE: Stupid move
By retrospooty on 3/6/2012 3:12:28 PM , Rating: 2
"The problem is people oversimplying something to prove their point. You probably know damn well that the BES model does much more than what you have stated"

I know it adds security, and if your business is dealing with something highly secure like Sandia labs or similar, agreed. Blackberry is hte best solution for mobile mail. But that is a very small percentage. For most companies, exactly what I wrote is true. That is exactly why we are phasing out Blackberry in my company and I know we arent alone in that.

Cerin218 siad it well. "unless you work for the government (I would add a few other entities) 95% of the people that use Blackberry don't need that level of security. "


RE: Stupid move
By omnicronx on 3/6/2012 3:31:00 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not merely talking about security, I'm talking about anything from deployment, to support tools. OOB BES is unmatched for large scale deployments. (not to mention everything is integrated and supported by RIM)


RE: Stupid move
By retrospooty on 3/6/2012 3:45:23 PM , Rating: 2
It does have great deployment tools, I'll give you that... Its easy for IT... The issue is its not really needed.

As cool as it is that I can manipulate a phone on the east coast from my AZ office, remote wipe it, d/l the latest firmware to it, reset various PIM setting etc etc. As great as the tools are, I just don't need to use it. Most phones these days (RIM's included) just work without a whole lot of support needed from IT. If you have alot of issues with your BB users, that you need the tools on a regular basis. you probably dont have it set up right.


RE: Stupid move
By omnicronx on 3/6/2012 3:58:53 PM , Rating: 2
That may be your opinion, but tell that to a team managing 5000+ devices's and they probably won't be singing the same tune.

Or do you think its fun having to support a device like say the iPhone/Android in which users have free reign to do things like update their OS even though it has yet to be tested?


RE: Stupid move
By retrospooty on 3/6/2012 5:17:54 PM , Rating: 2
"That may be your opinion, but tell that to a team managing 5000+ devices's and they probably won't be singing the same tune."

I would tell them to learn a new Tune, becasue like it or not, RIM is going buh buy soon.


RE: Stupid move
By Pirks on 3/6/2012 2:39:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
adding a level of complexity
Can't have additional security without additional complexity


RE: Stupid move
By tamalero on 3/8/2012 12:35:06 AM , Rating: 2
I think the "old phone thing" is just another drop in the bucket.

Anyone remembers how bad the reliability of the service were these days?
mayor crashes in Europe and many American countries (Mexico had 3 outages in a row for example)


Get BB Services on iOS
By quiksilvr on 3/6/2012 11:38:44 AM , Rating: 2
Go software. It's the only logical step to take at this point. Their phones will NEVER become popular enough to sustain the company and it is time they realize that their strengths (the software) should be applied on other platforms.

They still have name value. Use it before people realize they can get the same security for free.




RE: Get BB Services on iOS
By goodsyntax on 3/6/2012 12:37:45 PM , Rating: 2
Apple has name value. So does Google.

RIM??? Not so much...at least not anymore.

At this point, RIM's execution is so poor, and the hardware so obsolete, that I think that anyone who is considering a smart phone probably doesn't even pay a single thought to Blackberries, unless the phone is issued to them by their employer.

And to say that their strength is the software, ahem...Playbook, well that is just another launch that was poorly executed. Not for nothing, but their Enterprise Server is not really anything that spectacular and there are free (or low cost) alternatives already out there.

At least the first step was implemented, which was to get rid of their co-CEO's. Time will tell if they can turn the ship around, but, honestly, I don't think that they can. At this point, they are in a conundrum - they have to create a new handset and new OS (including apps and market) to attract new users, but they risk alienating their existing base if they do so. Sure, they could embrace a custom Android OS (like the Kindle Fire), but that's desperate, and a sign that the end is near.

It's unfortunate to see the company that created the "smartphone" be destroyed by arrogant and inflexible co-CEO's. If they were more agile and adapted to changes in the industry, they would still be a heavyweight. Instead they sat by idly, watching Android and iOS dominate the market that they originally created.


RE: Get BB Services on iOS
By retrospooty on 3/6/2012 1:26:06 PM , Rating: 2
"At this point, RIM's execution is so poor, and the hardware so obsolete, that I think that anyone who is considering a smart phone probably doesn't even pay a single thought to Blackberries, unless the phone is issued to them by their employer."

Even when employers give it, people are complaining. Alot of IT holdouts are jumping off the BB wagon because the users are screaming for better phones.


RE: Get BB Services on iOS
By Arsynic on 3/6/2012 2:35:02 PM , Rating: 2
Many IT shops are ditching it because it's a pain in the ass to manage.


RE: Get BB Services on iOS
By Zingam on 3/6/2012 3:55:46 PM , Rating: 1
How is an iPhone a better phone if it cannot managed even the most basic thing: to work for 24 hours without a recharge?

None of the local businesses here (I don't live in the USA) give smartphones to their workers. All I have seen are the most simple models the ones designed to actually work as a phone and that have 4-5-6-7 hours of talk time and can be dropped 100 times from 10 feet without breaking. And of course workers cannot play Angry Birds on them too. :D


RE: Get BB Services on iOS
By jimbojimbo on 3/6/2012 8:54:57 PM , Rating: 2
I have a Blackberry and a Droid 3, which also doesn't last 24 hours with regular use. You know what? I hate using the BB since there is no software that I want that'll run well on it and also doesn't cost 10x the same thing in the Android marketplace. It's also significantly less efficient for what I want. It's literally only good for email, calendar, BBM, contacts, and notes. Of course the thing lasts longer than my Droid 3 since I never use it!
I have both devices since I manage Exchange and BES for our company.


RE: Get BB Services on iOS
By Omega215D on 3/6/2012 1:49:57 PM , Rating: 2
Blackberries are still pretty relevant as they do provide camera-less versions of their phones for corporate and government use. They're also good with battery life and messaging. Security used to be their exclusive but Motorola has corporate and govt level security on their recent Android phones.

Sadly RIM has taken too long in bringing QNX to their phones while focusing on updating BB OS only for their most recent phones (nothing for Storm 2 and various Bolds after). The updates don't really bring any of the features up to par with other phone OSes.

I had a 9930, and while it was great for the basic stuff it was lacking in web browsing (compared to Android, iOS and Palm) and many of the apps that were of great use to me on Android were not on BB.


Would Like an Option
By jingle10 on 3/6/2012 6:18:05 PM , Rating: 2
We have been hanging in there with RIM because we have yet to find an alternative that addresses the data usage while roaming. BB offers compression the others all seem to think roaming is free.

The couple of iPhones we have tried have cost 2 to 3 times the that of the BB's while roaming. This is pretty significant. It is one thing to replace the fleet but to be paying for it 3 times over year after year doesn't cut it.

Talking to others I am hearing stories of people returning from trips with $10,000 in mobile data charges, I would be freaking out at $1,000.

The other issue is management of the BB's for us is free as we a using BES Express (we scrape in with numbers). If we have to go out and buy 3rd party software and licenses to run an fleet of somthing else that is a significant additional cost we don't have at this time.

I welcome any feedback or suggestions.




RE: Would Like an Option
By Pirks on 3/6/2012 6:54:43 PM , Rating: 2
"Who cares how BB is convenient for you or your business when their stock is 80% down?" (C) retrotroll


RE: Would Like an Option
By jingle10 on 3/6/2012 8:54:44 PM , Rating: 2
It’s not about being convenient for our business. There is potential for a significant financial impact for everyone in regard to roaming data costs, but it appears little discussed despite big potential impact. I am sure there are others interested in covering all bases and making careful decisions.

I welcome an alternative as I am also not happy about the direction RIM is going in, but I am not about to change without a pretty solid business case. I don't know many businesses that can afford to squander money in the current climate.

You need to come up with a better argument than who cares about your business. If you haven't got any productive suggestions why bother commenting. I am not interested in anyone’s fanboy leanings. Personal preference is not relevant to building a sound case for a particular platform and what I use at home will likely differ from the office. Suggesting change regardless of impact because you don't like RIM doesn't cut it.

I can just see it, I will go to the board and say we're recommending changing platforms at great cost because we don't like how RIM's stock prices are looking. I would get laughed out of the room. Not that I would make any significant new investment with RIM at the moment either.


RE: Would Like an Option
By retrospooty on 3/7/2012 11:48:29 AM , Rating: 2
""Who cares how BB is convenient for you or your business when their stock is 80% down?" (C) retrotroll"

Ugh... I wish you would just get over it. I have said this before... I am not rooting against RIM. I really hope they dont go away. I dont want to see and Apple/Google duopoly. I love smartphones and I want the market to broaden and become cheaper. I want RIMM's next OS, and WebOS, Winmobile and any others to stay relevant. It keeps the competition innovating and it keeps prices low so we all benefit. My only issue with RIM, is that they were on top, and had plenty money and they threw it all away with bad decisions and poor execution. Me trying to explain to you how screwed RIM is doesn't make me a troll. I have also said before that QNX looks good. My only comment is that it may be too late. RIMM will likely have to sell off before QNX gets a foothold. It will be competing with IOS6 and ANdroid 5 by the time it's released.


wow so much hate for rim
By MarioJP on 3/6/2012 3:04:37 PM , Rating: 2
Suddenly all the anti RIM comes out. I don't think RIM is done for, however they need to pick up the pace on technology. Blackberry will always have a place. The last thing I want is Android, and Apple be the only ones. Google is getting scary with their tracking policies. And Apple can change whatever they please. Today Smartphones tomorrow apps on the cloud??.




RE: wow so much hate for rim
By Zingam on 3/6/2012 3:49:44 PM , Rating: 1
You still have Micro$hit Windows ... ehm... phone?

I'm not a BlackBerry user but I think it must be a good PHONE. While the iPhone is a... toy... An expensive, crappy toy. It is not a phone! The iPhone 4 is such a ridiculous piece of crap that it is unbelievable! It is the worst phone ever! I really love the phrase: "You are holding it wrong!"
I have used Nokias in the last 10 years and it never ever happened to me, any of them to break within an year of the purchase (unlike my sister's iPhone). I have dropped them, I have raped them... I have washed one of them in the washing machine. My colleague replaced the speaker and the screen for $10 and it worked for another couple of years and it doesn't matter how you hold the Nokia it just works! And should I mention that any of these Nokias could stay in standby for two weeks without a recharge?
And if it happens to put your finger on iPhones speaker.... you cannot hear anything! Wow... that's simply amazing! Such a great feature. And that edgy, glassy design is so uncomfortable to hold in hand!
Well, it has nicer icons than my old Nokias thought! :D
But that's what people want obviously: nice icons and stupid games and they don't care if it is any good as a phone.

Any of these new smartphones are in reality idiotic phones :D And they are anything but phones!


RE: wow so much hate for rim
By messele on 3/6/2012 3:55:23 PM , Rating: 2
Well it's good to hear that come judgement day all the cockroaches will have plenty of Nokias to go round.


RE: wow so much hate for rim
By ipay on 3/6/2012 4:24:58 PM , Rating: 2
And Wico Redballs!


So now it somes to drastic measures
By Netscorer on 3/6/2012 1:01:51 PM , Rating: 2
RIM reminds me a dying patient in agony, reaching for another dose of opium to prolong whatever last days it has remained. It won't save them but simply delay the inevitable outcome. Blackberry platform became obsolete as RIM did not realize the game change when first iPhones hit the market and Google was busy putting finishing touches on Android OS. Now they are hopelessly behind, hemorrhaging both customers and finances and losing whatever remains from their market share and brand reputation by the month. Essentially, it's a game over for RIM and they would follow Motorola's path as somebody would simply snatch them for their IP portfolio which is the only remaining sellable asset that RIM has to offer. I would not be surprised if RIM, as we know it, will not exist in 12 months from now.

Good riddance.




By darkpuppet on 3/6/2012 4:13:34 PM , Rating: 2
I've been telling people that RIM needed to move to Android 2 years ago...

It became obvious that they lost touch with hardware, and moving to a more global platform rather than trying to revive something they let languish for too many years.

At this point, I can still hope that RIM would move to Android and port their tools (which they've been doing) to the other platforms. However, it may be too little too late.

The problem is their ex-CEOs and the current CEO (who is exactly like the old ones) can't seem to move quickly enough... or see the impending end.

It'll take an apple-sized miracle for them to stay afloat. There somes a point in the attrition rate of a company's worth where they'll never have capital to recover and I believe that time has passed.


love my bb - BES
By jordanl17 on 3/7/2012 10:16:55 PM , Rating: 2
I have a bb os 7.1 phone and I love it. the OS is super smooth, browser works great (pinch zoom is very fast). from pocket, to email read, deleted, back to pocket, very fast. bonus: better battery life than iOS or Android. BB has pretty much closed the gap, OS wise.

I like being on BES, I feel more "attached" to our exchange environment. Somehow, to me, it feels more... solid/quick/reliable than an activesync based phone. emails arrive to my phone immediately when they arrive into my outlook inbox. Activesync based solutions just don't do that. That's what I mean by "attached". (I used an android 2.3.5 phone for 1 month on exchange activesync, I missed BES). PLUS, with BES you don't really need a vpn app on your phone, another bonus.

Plus the centralized management/deployment that BES offers is nice, there's no way around that point. RIM has to be scratching their heads about that. Features that they offered in the past... I guess no one really cared about those features, oh well. As long as you have the Zippo Lighter app that's all that counts. (sorry, last sentence was a rant, I remember someone showing me that and they thought it was magical)
So, drop all the cool things BES can do, in favor of a dumbed down activesync solution, BUT have you seen the zippo lighter app, and angry birds?!? crap, this always happens, the more I type the more fanboyish this gets.
side note:
here's an idea: shouldn't RIM and/or MS pay the salary for a few programmers at Zynga so they can port apps to their devices. I was about to buy my wife Windows Phone 7.5, but she loves words with friends, NO words with friends app for WinPhone7, so..... we got an android, that one thing lost a winphone sale.




Bye Bye RIM
By JBlongz on 3/8/2012 11:41:00 AM , Rating: 2
I hope microsoft buys RIM to put on the shelf. We don't need another blackberry at this point. We need another instance of UNIX to compete with Apple and Android.




By mavricxx on 3/9/2012 4:20:57 PM , Rating: 2
How has iOS and Android improved security? Please explain, because I wouldn't even dare open my bank account to check my balance on either of those OSes! The ONLY mobile device I trust doing business on is RIM's. There is currently NO OTHER competitor that even compares to BlackBerrys as far as security is concerned! Please get your stories right.




Joke right,early April fools
By Uncle on 3/6/2012 11:04:01 PM , Rating: 1
"user-friendly features as well as improved security features without the added costs"
Joke right,early April fools ,Reason a Senator is going after Google and Apple for allowing apps to upload your contacts, pictures, all kind of little goodies without your permission. If they did this on your computer they would be nailed to a cross cause its against the law. Its time to quit screwing around and let the government regulate the cell phones the same as land lines and computers, this is legalized root kits via your cell phone to your computer because so many including myself sync our cell phones with our computers. This is out and out illegal and no law that I'm aware of and maybe why a Senator is bringing up the issue, because we allowed the big Corporations to have their way and they promised to regulate themselves .




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