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Cancellation notice for the HD DVD Group's press conference at the Wynn Hotel
Paramount has clause to back-out of HD DVD support deal

When Paramount announced in August that it sided with HD DVD as the exclusive format for which it will release its high-definition films, most thought of it as a marriage that would prolong the optical format war.

Just prior to the opening of CES 2008, Warner revealed that it will slowly transition from being a format neutral company to supporting Blu-ray Disc exclusively starting this summer. Warner’s shift represents a staggering loss to HD DVD – one so severe that it has Paramount reconsidering its vows with HD DVD.

According to the Financial Times, Paramount is understood to have a clause in its agreement with HD DVD that allows the film company to back out of its exclusivity deal should Warner back Blu-ray Disc. Furthermore, the Times added that, with Warner officially on Blu-ray Disc, Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD DVD.

Should Paramount truly abandon the format they were backing, HD DVD owners will suddenly find themselves without yet another classic movie trilogy with the loss of Indiana Jones – originally expected for release in high-definition in 2008.

DreamWorks Animation, makers of Shrek, also signed an exclusive deal with HD DVD in August 2007, though it is unclear if the studio has the same back-out clause as Paramount.

Somewhat confusingly, Paramount told High-Def Digest that it currently has no plans to abandon HD DVD. "We are still supporting HD DVD," said the Paramount spokesperson. A somewhat startling sign, however, might be that Paramount will not be making any new HD DVD movie announcements at CES 2008.





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What HD-DVD needs to do
By Snowy on 1/8/08, Rating: 0
RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By DigitalFreak on 1/8/2008 8:41:54 AM , Rating: 3
The entire computer industry, aside from Toshiba and Microsoft, support Blu-ray.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By Schadenfroh on 1/8/2008 9:17:24 AM , Rating: 2
IIRC, Intel backs HD-DVD as well, but most of the major PC OEMS look a little blue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Associat...


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By tallcool1 on 1/8/2008 10:21:52 AM , Rating: 6
Wow, thanks for the link!

Reading the post from DT members, you would think that Sony was the sole founder and license holder for Blu-Ray. In fact there are 9 companies (Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, and Sony) that founded Blu-Ray. These companies form the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA); which is "the industry consortium that develops and licenses Blu-ray Disc technology."

"The current 18 board members (as of December 2007) are:

Apple Inc.
Dell
Hewlett Packard
Hitachi
LG Electronics
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
Sun Microsystems
TDK Corporation
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group / Buena Vista Home Entertainment
Warner Home Video Inc. (Exclusively as of January 4 2008)"


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By Murst on 1/8/2008 10:35:51 AM , Rating: 5
Every thread in the last year about HD media has had at least one person complain about Sony, and then had at least 2 other people point out that Sony is not the only owner of BR.

A thread about HD just isn't complete w/o this information.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By zombiexl on 1/8/2008 11:21:07 AM , Rating: 2
I think BR is winning for sure, but just a few things..

Aren't LG and Phillips the same comapny?

Also Waner isnt exclusive until May(ish).

Thomson? Is that the same Thomson that makes RCA and GE (an honest question, i'm not sure form just the name)? If so RCA made an HD-DVD player a few years back for sale at wally world.

Really the main problem for HD-DVD isnt ALL the BR backers. It's really just a few.. Sony, Disney and Fox (and now Warner). The media companies are the one's determining the winner in the format war.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By Flunk on 1/8/2008 12:32:13 PM , Rating: 2
No, LG and Philips are not the same company. They do however have a joint venture that manufactures LCDs, which is probably why you think this.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By zombiexl on 1/8/2008 12:50:08 PM , Rating: 1
That could be, thats why I asked a question..


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By Schadenfroh on 1/8/2008 2:31:35 PM , Rating: 2
Thomson sold RCA and GE Consumer Electronics to AudioVox:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiovox


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By lumbergeek on 1/8/2008 4:26:50 PM , Rating: 2
I stand corrected


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By Visual on 1/9/2008 7:02:31 AM , Rating: 2
and they never made a hd-dvd player, they were just rebadging the toshiba players.
more recently onkyo did the same for the second-gen toshibas

to this day i don't thing there's even one other manufacturer of hd-dvd players except toshiba. and on the pc drive front things were even worse, not even toshiba was making any until recently (except for the models sold exclusively with their qosmio laptops or the xbox addon).

recently lg launched their hd-dvd/bluray combo drive so there's finally a second hd-dvd device manufacturer, and finally a pc drive is available.

there are several announcements from small chinese firms that they'll start making and marketing hddvd players this year, but i'm not aware of anything completed yet.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By lumbergeek on 1/8/2008 4:25:25 PM , Rating: 2
yes, Thomson is RCA, but it is not GE.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By encia on 1/11/2008 6:02:40 PM , Rating: 2
Both LG and Samsung sells HD-DVD and Blu-Ray combo drives.

quote:
Warner Home Video Inc. (Exclusively as of January 4 2008)"

Exclusively starts May 2008 NOT January 4 2008. Try again.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By encia on 1/12/2008 7:54:37 PM , Rating: 2
"Sharp readies world's smallest blue laser for BD and HD DVD"...

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/28/sharp-readies-w...


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By encia on 1/14/2008 6:37:03 AM , Rating: 2
Pioneer planning HD DVD/Blu-ray combo drive
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/peripherals/pioneer-bdr...


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By encia on 1/14/2008 6:46:08 AM , Rating: 1
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/NewsStory.aspx?story...
Hitachi-LG with Blu-Ray/HD DVD combo PC drive

Apple Inc.
Dell
****Hewlett Packard
****Hitachi
****LG Electronics
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)
****Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
****Samsung Electronics
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
...
Sun Microsystems
TDK Corporation


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By masher2 on 1/8/2008 11:25:24 AM , Rating: 1
> "IIRC, Intel backs HD-DVD as well"

Asus and HP both make HD-DVD drives as well.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By Belard on 1/8/2008 1:07:08 PM , Rating: 2
ASUS makes both HD-DVD and BluRay Drives for PC.

HP doesn't make HiDef Drives, they sell computers with both HD-DVD and BluRay Drives in their PC.

#2 PC seller, Dell sells only BluRay with their computers.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By encia on 1/14/2008 6:17:48 AM , Rating: 2
#3 PC seller, ACER sells both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By Visual on 1/9/2008 7:10:51 AM , Rating: 2
nope, from the few reviews i seen the asus hd-dvd drive is made by toshiba


RE: What HD-DVD needs to do
By leexgx on 1/8/2008 6:46:57 PM , Rating: 3
i have to agree i have No HD-dvd burners on my trade list (or readers as i just checked) or seen not many on web sites been sold for OEM or retail

i have had BR readers for the last 3-5 months burners have been on there for 2-3 months Little pricey still £100 reader £230 burner

HD-DVD on computers is pointless as its Long term use PCs the format does not offer allot of space or Disk protection

HD-dvd does not offer the disk space that 1 single layer BR disk does and gives company's the option to use 50GB disks at some later point (if that be ever needed but we say this when dvd 4.4gb was good size now dual layer 9GB disks are becoming to full)

so PC sellers or OEM is all ready BR just need HP and Toshiba (not likely heh ) to do it as well


Let's not sell anything
By djc208 on 1/8/2008 7:39:39 AM , Rating: 5
Personally I'm tired of the whole thing, especially these studios. Any more I wonder if they actually want to sell their movies at all. Rather than flood the market with copies in any format that can hold it they play this stupid game of taking sides and selectivly releasing movies in "supported" formats, which even they can't seem to decide on.

Stuff like this doesn't show who's better in the format "war" it just shows that the war was never about what the "market" wanted, this was a corporate war with the consumer caught in the middle, which is just one more reason not to get involved at all.




RE: Let's not sell anything
By mmntech on 1/8/2008 9:24:35 AM , Rating: 3
Hasn't the entertainment industry always given the legitimate consumer the middle finger?

The HD-DVD people made a lot of mistakes though and I think that in hindsight, it's pretty obvious the format has always been on shaky ground. Sony was smart by including the BD drive in the PS3. I know a lot of people whined about it (including myself) due to it being responsible for the high cost of the console. However, people are more willing to buy it as a BD player since if the format did fail, they weren't stuck with something useless. That said, I think HD-DVD will develop into a niche market for foreign film fans due to its region free nature. The VHS vs Beta war ended in a similar way with Beta entering the professional recording market.


RE: Let's not sell anything
By darkpaw on 1/8/2008 9:48:38 AM , Rating: 5
I don't favor either format, but there are very good business reasons for supporting a limited set of formats:

1) Licsensing/promotion fees - pretty self explantory. For each media format supported the company incurs expenses to promote that format (I.E. free movie giveaways)
2) Production costs - Since each format requires different production facilities, that adds costs, contractors, etc
3) Retail space - most movies are still sold retail. Retailers are going to devote shelf space only to the more successful formats. Producing copies that are not as likely to get sold just adds additional costs.

While it would be nice to be able to get any media in any format we wanted, there are costs associated with that. And guess who'll be paying those costs? Definitely not the studios, those costs get passed on to us in the end.


RE: Let's not sell anything
By Chaser on 1/8/2008 12:23:35 PM , Rating: 5
And what did the market really want?

BR rentals and sales have been 3 to 1 over HD DVD. Blockbuster went exclusive to BR, followed by the recent studio changes. Why? Because despite all the fire sales at Walmart BR has outsold HD 3 to 1. I don't think the corporations aren't buying them. Consumers are. They had a choice and overwhelmingly they buy/rent Blue Ray.

The world had a choice and they smartly chose the format they prefer.


RE: Let's not sell anything
By porkpie on 1/8/2008 12:40:53 PM , Rating: 2
3 to 1? Lol, no. BD to HD-DVD sales are now 62:38, by last week's data.

HD-DVD is UP from 6 months ago, when BD was outselling it almost 4 to 1.



RE: Let's not sell anything
By deeznuts on 1/8/2008 1:03:09 PM , Rating: 3
Hmm, maybe he was talking worldwide since he mentioned "the world had a choice?" In that case I think it's more than 3 to 1. HD DVD is getting massacred everywhere else.


RE: Let's not sell anything
By SavagePotato on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: Let's not sell anything
By porkpie on 1/8/2008 4:03:13 PM , Rating: 3
Lol, that is so wrong. Even Sony itself doesn't say that. Take a look at their graph here.

http://www.dailytech.com/Sony+Inadvertently+Reveal...

BD WAS outselling HD-DVD by a lot more than it is today. The trend for HD-DVD has been upward, not downward. Now, stop pulling made-up figures out of your a**, k?


RE: Let's not sell anything
By SavagePotato on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: Let's not sell anything
By ioKain on 1/8/2008 3:12:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And what did the market really want?


One percent of the market gets to decide whats best for everyone else. Sounds like dictatorship to me.


RE: Let's not sell anything
By djc208 on 1/8/2008 3:22:27 PM , Rating: 4
True but Blockbuster went BD months ago, many of the studios picked sides from the beginning. Like I said, all that doesn't make this a "decision" from my standpoint, it means that if I want to rent HD movies from the Blockbuster down the street I have to have a BD player. If I want to watch movie A, B, or C I need an HD-DVD player. If I want movie X, Y, or Z I have to have a BD player.

Last I checked that wasn't consumer choice in HD formats, it was an ultimatum. The only people who ever really had a choice in the format wars were the studios. The can actually decide to support one format or another however they see fit.


It's over
By AlexWade on 1/8/08, Rating: 0
RE: It's over
By Murst on 1/8/08, Rating: 0
RE: It's over
By BansheeX on 1/8/2008 11:23:35 AM , Rating: 3
Murst, you're making him think. Stop before his head explodes.


RE: It's over
By AlexWade on 1/8/2008 11:31:22 AM , Rating: 3
2) Fox implemented BD+ titles with Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer. In addition to being a bad movie, many non-PS3 Blu-Ray owners reported problems galore.

3) All Fox titles are region-locked. So are all New Line titles. Which is why Rush Hour 3 on HD DVD was delayed.

4) HD DVD triple layer would never see the light of day unless it worked on all players, past and present. The same cannot be said of Blu-Ray profiles. Remember, you are dealing with the experienced DVD forum, not the inexperienced BDA. Exception, of course, the PS3.

5) 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people cannot tell a difference between 1080i and 1080p. Furthermore, why force people to pay extra for a feature they cannot benefit from in the first place? Most HDTV's that have ever been sold are 1080i or 720p. Most sold today are 720p. Going from a non-HD source to a HD source provides a huge benefit. Going from 1080i to 1080p is very small. Going from 29.97 FPS to 24 FPS that movies are made in provides a huge benefit. Only the most expensive HDTV's and the most expensive HD/Blu-Ray players support this.

6) Any and all DRM is bad, period.

I promise you this, I know more about this than you could ever dream. But since I don't care, I won't reply to your responses.


RE: It's over
By Murst on 1/8/2008 12:33:10 PM , Rating: 4
For someone who claims to know a lot about the subject, you seem to omit a rather large chuck of relevant information

quote:
2)Fox implemented BD+ titles with Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer. In addition to being a bad movie, many non-PS3 Blu-Ray owners reported problems galore.

The reason the movies you mentioned had problems was because the players did not support BD-J (BD-J is what loads BD+, but the issue was not with BD+). You can blame BD+ all you want, but the fact is that the users either (a) did not upgrade their firmware or (b) the manufacturers did not release firmware for their players that supported the feature. I guess you can blame Sony for that, but Sony has no control over what Samsung does with their own hardware. Personally, I have a PS3, and I have yet to experience a problem with playback of any movie, because Sony actually updates their firmware.

quote:
3) All Fox titles are region-locked. So are all New Line titles. Which is why Rush Hour 3 on HD DVD was delayed.

Wait.. you're saying that Rush Hour 3 was delayed *because* of region-locking on BR? The REASON why RH3 was delayed was because there is no region locking on HD DVD, it had nothing to do w/ BR. Please read http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/14/new-line-to-d... for more info.

quote:
4) HD DVD triple layer would never see the light of day unless it worked on all players, past and present. The same cannot be said of Blu-Ray profiles. Remember, you are dealing with the experienced DVD forum, not the inexperienced BDA. Exception, of course, the PS3.

It was already approved in August of last year, despite Toshiba *knowing* that it will not work on all players. AFAIK, all BR profiles can be loaded onto older players via a firmware update. Sure seems like the opposite of what you're arguing is true.

quote:
5) 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the people cannot tell a difference between 1080i and 1080p. Furthermore, why force people to pay extra for a feature they cannot benefit from in the first place? Most HDTV's that have ever been sold are 1080i or 720p. Most sold today are 720p. Going from a non-HD source to a HD source provides a huge benefit. Going from 1080i to 1080p is very small. Going from 29.97 FPS to 24 FPS that movies are made in provides a huge benefit. Only the most expensive HDTV's and the most expensive HD/Blu-Ray players support this.

You can argue for inferior technology all you want. Most of us want to see more features in products, not less.

quote:
6) Any and all DRM is bad, period.

We agree on something. However, both formats have it, and at least for the near future, we have to put up with it.

quote:
I promise you this, I know more about this than you could ever dream. But since I don't care, I won't reply to your responses.


lol


RE: It's over
By porkpie on 1/8/2008 1:41:12 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Most of us want to see more features in products, not less.
Right, and that's why I chose HD-DVD. Internet connectivity, PiP on all players, and more interactibility with HDi.

I did give up the "advanced feature" of region-locked discs though.

quote:
However, both formats have DRM
But Blu Ray as more of it. That's why Sony Studios say they support it, in fact, because of the "extra layer of protection" it provides from "improper use".


RE: It's over
By Murst on 1/8/2008 3:05:31 PM , Rating: 2
I completely agree with you that required internet hookup is a huge bonus for HD DVD. But you're going to have a hell of a time trying to convince me that not supporting 1080p is a good thing. PiP is a nice feature as well, although I believe that is also supported on all Blu Ray players with the latest firmware.

Can you provide examples of what you can do with HDi that you can't do with java on BR?

I also wish that there was no region locking on BR. However, since this is causing studios not to release movies on HD DVD (or release them later), I'd prefer to have my movie earlier w/ the region locking, especially since it doesn't affect me. Maybe if I lived in another part of the world or watched movies from other parts of the world, I would care.

As to DRM, what difference does it make how much there is? If there is any DRM, from a legal point of view, there is nothing I can do about it.


RE: It's over
By Murst on 1/8/2008 3:24:46 PM , Rating: 2
Instead of "not supporting 1080p", that should be "not requiring 1080p". HD DVD of course supports it, although it does not require it.


RE: It's over
By Visual on 1/9/2008 7:16:41 AM , Rating: 2
which is quite funny - all discs have the contents encoded as 1080p anyway
why would they make the players to interlace it and require the tv sets to deinterlace it is beyond me.


RE: It's over
By leexgx on 1/8/2008 7:07:26 PM , Rating: 2
i have seen 1080i and its not so hot
720p removes alot of artifacts from the screen that 1080i can thow in, 1080p sould be standard on all players and drop back to 720p if 1080p not supported (Alot of 1080i tvs are infact 720p down scalers thay take 1080i in but go down to 720p) All sky boxs can only do 1080i and 720p (some cable boxs do 1080p)

The owner of this link is mostly an Rant but allso does explane 720p and 1080i (little old tho 2006)
http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/Naming_Proposal.htm


RE: It's over
By Loc13 on 1/8/2008 2:40:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I promise you this, I know more about this than you could ever dream. But since I don't care, I won't reply to your responses.


For some reason I just laugh really hard when I read this. Sounds like something coming from the mouth of a 10-year-old.

And I don't think average consumer care about which format has more DRM as long as the movies play from start to finish.


RE: It's over
By chick0n on 1/9/08, Rating: 0
RE: It's over
By tallcool1 on 1/10/2008 1:08:29 PM , Rating: 2
It is the difference in these items DRM, Region coding, etc.. that are probably pulling Studios away from HD-DVD and towards Blu-Ray in the first place. So when you say that HD-DVD is better because these features being less or non-existant, is probably the same reason it will not succeed because the people that make the products that play on it (movie studios), don't perceive this as a feature set they want or need.


RE: It's over
By Kamasutra on 1/14/2008 6:46:45 PM , Rating: 2
3. What BR discs are region locked inside of PS3 games?
Hint: None


RE: It's over
By blaster5k on 1/8/2008 3:10:59 PM , Rating: 3
I dunno if I'd say the better technology lost, but HD-DVD is a better format in my eyes. They did a much better job with standardization and the quality of releases is more consistent.

Blu-Ray is the better "technology", though it requires much more radical changes to DVD pressing plants and more expensive hardware... and for what? I'm assuming it's a royalty thing.

Because as far as movies go, because quality does not suffer with HD-DVD. People seem to think it does for some reason (maybe due to marketing, the price tag, or the 1080p/1080i output misunderstanding), but I'm not aware of any credible independent reviews out there showing BR superiority when it comes to movie quality.

It makes me wonder if BR supporters are the same folks who think expensive speaker wire and surge supressors make a difference in quality. Or that a 1000W power supply is really necessary for their gaming rig.


By mikecel79 on 1/8/2008 7:34:57 AM , Rating: 2
Would be nice since I picked up a Toshiba HD-A2 for $99. I've been enjoying HD DVD rentals from Netflix for the past 2 months and don't have a huge collection yet. Who is going to be the first company to give me a rebate on a new BD player if I trade in my HD DVD player?




By tallcool1 on 1/8/2008 8:55:27 AM , Rating: 2
Sell it on EBay (while you can)... Then use that money towards a new player.


By EODetroit on 1/8/2008 9:55:53 AM , Rating: 2
Actually... I've been checking the HD DVD drives for the XBox 360 on Ebay lately... they're now going for under $100, around $120 new in box. Compared to $179 retail. People are running away the format, fast.

Shame, I was rooting for HD DVD, too.


By Master Kenobi on 1/8/2008 10:38:02 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft dropped the MSRP on the HD DVD Addon to ~120.


By EODetroit on 1/8/2008 1:32:48 PM , Rating: 3
O'RLY? Unless that was done in the past three days, the retailers and etailers don't know about the price drop, as they're all still selling it for $179 or so. Go look for yourself.


By aos007 on 1/8/2008 6:45:06 PM , Rating: 2
It's still at full $199 CDN up here north of the border. I heard it's supposed to be $129 in US but if major retailers are still holding on to $179, perhaps Microsoft didn't send the memo to everyone...


By JustTom on 1/9/2008 1:32:37 AM , Rating: 2
It is still listed at $179US on the XBox website, so I guess the Xboxers didnt get the memo either.


By Visual on 1/9/2008 7:28:39 AM , Rating: 2
MSRP is just a guideline, and if a retailer has already stocked something buying it more expensively, reducing the MSRP wont in any way force them to sell their stock at a loss.


By slacker57 on 1/8/2008 1:44:48 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Just have to convince myself that $100 for an upconverter isn't the worst deal ever.


By killerroach on 1/8/2008 4:10:50 PM , Rating: 2
Sony is mentioning now that, if Blu-Ray wins out, they intend to try to put some program into place to help HD-DVD owners switch.


I own HDDVD, prefer BluRay
By bebito on 1/8/2008 9:58:07 AM , Rating: 2
I own over 200 HD movie titles now, have a HDDVD player and BluRay.. side by side most appear better in BD with few exceptions.
I welcome the failure of HDDVD an can't wait until all titles are released in a single format to drive down costs.. I can get a DVD player for less than the cost of the movie now. I don't want dual format, it does'nt help, there is always a tradeoff.
HD Players cost similar to BD players for the same specs, the cheap ones are 1080i, I don't want inferior, I want the best.
I like most people care less about region coding.

Now if MS, Intel, Toshiba want to save the HDDVD format, offer a free HDDVD drive to all owners of the xBox360 instead of paying money to the studios. Sony has 5+ million PS3's out there that can play movies and the games are BD so their format WILL live on regardless for 5 years or more. Even with the free HDDVD drive I am not sure the tech will survive.. only Toshiba is making the players, industry does not truely support them MS and Intel don't count as they don't make players. Sony has big backers making 3rd party players... Writing is on the wall




By NullSubroutine on 1/8/2008 10:37:54 AM , Rating: 2
dont expect prices to go down when blueray wins. dont expect those 15 free movies, cheap player prices, and every other promotional deal. they will go POOF!


RE: I own HDDVD, prefer BluRay
By Murst on 1/8/2008 10:39:14 AM , Rating: 2
If your HD DVD movies don't look as good as the BR movies, it most likely has to do w/ the players, not the movies themselves. Movies should look identical between the formats.


RE: I own HDDVD, prefer BluRay
By masher2 on 1/8/2008 12:07:33 PM , Rating: 1
> "side by side most appear better in BD with few exceptions"

I hope you don't expect anyone to believe this, as independent reviewers say the movies appear identical...with the exception of those early BD releases in MPEG-4, which appear considerably worse than their HD-DVD counterparts.

> "I don't want dual format, it does'nt help, there is always a tradeoff."

What "tradeoffs" are in your DVD player, which, in addition to DVD itself, plays CD, DVD+R, DVD-R, DVD-RAM, DVD+RW, DVD-RW, and probably a few others as well.


RE: I own HDDVD, prefer BluRay
By Chaser on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: I own HDDVD, prefer BluRay
By porkpie on 1/8/2008 12:44:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The FUD just keeps on coming
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


RE: I own HDDVD, prefer BluRay
By Murst on 1/8/2008 1:10:24 PM , Rating: 4
2 out of 3 isn't bad. You could argue for fear as well... someone of these people really do seem crazy :)


RE: I own HDDVD, prefer BluRay
By slacker57 on 1/8/2008 1:39:49 PM , Rating: 2
Inconceivable!


RE: I own HDDVD, prefer BluRay
By enlil242 on 1/8/2008 5:01:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


quote:
Inconceivable!


LOL, Too funny... :-D



RE: I own HDDVD, prefer BluRay
By blaster5k on 1/8/2008 2:46:50 PM , Rating: 3
I think masher meant MPEG2 -- not MPEG4.


BluRay Load Times
By illhuntudown on 1/8/2008 11:45:50 AM , Rating: 2
Will there ever be a resolution to the slow BluRay load times for the stand alone players?

Thoughts anyone?




RE: BluRay Load Times
By masher2 on 1/8/2008 12:42:59 PM , Rating: 3
Sure. Integrated ASICs and a process shrink or two, and you'll see BD players loading as fast as DVD players currently do. That's going to be 18-24 months away though.


RE: BluRay Load Times
By illhuntudown on 1/8/2008 4:46:33 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks!

A friend of mine looked into it and he said since the PS3 is basically a 3 CPU computer, it can load the BluRay Java off the disk and then begin playing the movies alomost immediately. Standalone players he said took from 40 seconds to 2 minutes to load a movie. Thus, it would seem to me that Sony's PS3 will put the rest of the BluRay players to death and probably own the market.

I did buy a PS3 for my two sons this past Christmas. I wasn't impressed. It's user interface has much to be desired. And, for the record, I do own the Wii and 360 with the HD-DVD. I like the Wii's interface the best.

One last comment, with the death of HD-DVD will the price of the movies come down? Personally, I can't justify $25 to $30 bucks for a movie when Circuit City will eventually sell the standard DVD format at $5 to $10 dollars.


RE: BluRay Load Times
By rninneman on 1/8/2008 5:34:24 PM , Rating: 2
The Cell BE is not a 3 core chip. It has the Power Processing Element(PPE) which is essentially a simultaneous multithreaded Power ISA core (think PowerPC) and it has 8 Synergistic Processing Elements(SPE) which are designed specifically for SIMD instructions. (1 of the 8 is disabled on the PS3 to improve yields.) The Cell BE in the PS3 runs at 3.2GHz. The Cell is what makes the PS3 so damn effective as a Blu-Ray player.


RE: BluRay Load Times
By rninneman on 1/8/2008 1:13:52 PM , Rating: 2
A PS3 can load just about any Blu-Ray about as fast as regular DVD players load DVDs.


RE: BluRay Load Times
By Murst on 1/8/2008 1:18:34 PM , Rating: 2
I think the problem is more with the startup time of the player, not really the loading of the movie itself.

I generally keep my PS3 on all the time so I don't notice it, but if you have a standalone player that's off unless its playing a movie, that could get annoying. Then again, if you're sitting down to watch a 2 hour movie, an extra 20-30 seconds shouldn't be that bad.


RE: BluRay Load Times
By rninneman on 1/8/2008 5:18:21 PM , Rating: 2
Standalone players take an obscene amount of time to both boot and load the movie. I haven't worked with the latest Panasonic BD30 or the Pioneer 95HD yet, but just about everything else takes between 30 - 45 seconds to boot and depending on the title, 15- 60 seconds to load the movie. The PS3 boots as fast as most DVD players and it can load Blu-Ray movies about as fast as any regular DVD player loading discs.

The irony is, people complain about the slow boot and load times of the HD players and then turn around and say that downloads will actually dominate. If 30 seconds is unacceptable, what is the load time of a 25-50GB download going to be like?


good
By meepstone on 1/8/2008 6:02:47 AM , Rating: 4
Its for the best if one just wins. Makes it better for the consumer. Now we dont have to worry about which one to get. One standard like DVD is. no confusing bull, just buy the movie you want and watch it at high quality. this is really what everyone wants.




RE: good
By Rhodenator on 1/8/2008 9:14:56 AM , Rating: 1
How is it best for the consumer if one just wins? Dual Format players should have really shined by the end of this year, which means the consumer doesn't have to care, make it on either Format and they win. They win more from Competition then without competition. With just Blu-Ray, prices can remain hiked up longer for everything, like the players and the Blu-Ray Discs.

Personally, I would prefer to have at least seen one more year go by, I could have picked up a dual format player for cheap and be done with it. I'll admit, I grabbed one of the $99 HD-DVD players and I received about 10 free HD-DVD Movies... I still want a Blu-Ray Player, but now the chances of dual format players coming down in price will shrink IMHO if HD-DVD goes away. Then I'm probably stuck with two seperate players again (too cheap to buy the current dual format players).


RE: good
By Torched on 1/8/2008 12:48:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
How is it best for the consumer if one just wins?

Because competition will increase among now-hesitant hardware vendors. Demand for BD will increase and in turn supply, which drives cost of manufacturing down.
quote:
They win more from Competition then without competition.
In the instance of a divided format competition is a bad thing since it sidelines half the industry until one is declared winner. If BD wins all HD early adopters will be casualties of the war and if you did your research you would have known the risk. All who have bought one format or the other took the same risk.


RE: good
By Belard on 1/8/2008 1:31:09 PM , Rating: 2
Dual format players are expensive because they have 2 different pick-ups... a more complicated system, small selling numbers.

Hence, there is limited to no future of these players once Paramount goes to Blu-Ray. Universal will follow suit within days or months.

No, the format war only kept people from buying players which kept prices up. The $99 players were older models that Toshiba wanted to dump and grow their numbers in a last ditch to save the ship.

The canceled meeting, not just simply delayed for later in the day shows that there are major things happening in the background.

While you, the consumer risked $100~500+ for the hardware and movies, the studios and the rest of the industry are working with millions of dollars.

Toshiba makes the only player on the market. Two other companies had pulled out (but there were re-badge Toshibas) and some startup-no-brand company sells a rebadge Toshiba (cost about $10~20K to make a new "face").

Samsung along makes 4 Blu-Ray players (not including the dual-format), Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Sharp and some others have players. No dual format players will survive since there isn't enough market to support them.

Sorry.


RE: good
By porkpie on 1/8/2008 1:37:08 PM , Rating: 3
Neither Paramount nor Universal are dropping HD-DVD. And wishful thinking isn't going to make it happen.
quote:
“The reviews are in and HD DVD is hands down the leader in picture quality, audio experiences and interactive capabilities that have never been seen before,” said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment...


RE: good
By xxsk8er101xx on 1/8/2008 9:16:10 PM , Rating: 2
"Report: Paramount Could Drop HD DVD Exclusivity Support"

"New Line Confirms It Will Move To Blu-ray Exclusively As Well"

Google it. HD-DVD is dead. It died when warner announced blu-ray as their choice. I'm not a fan of blu-ray and i hate sony.


So...
By Oobu on 1/8/08, Rating: 0
RE: So...
By lopri on 1/8/2008 7:24:10 AM , Rating: 4
Oh please. I could never understand what the deal is with 'Transformers'. There are a lot more precious movies that I'd see in HD before 'Transformers'. I can say in confidence that Michael Bay's movies are not one of them. (Armageddon, Pearl Harbor, etc.)


RE: So...
By soulbabel on 1/8/2008 9:24:12 AM , Rating: 4
sometimes you just want eye candy.


RE: So...
By FITCamaro on 1/8/2008 10:25:15 AM , Rating: 2
And your point is? The man obviously likes the movie. Let it be. He doesn't need to be berated for liking the movie.

And Pearl Harbor sucked. 95% chick flick. Like 5 minutes of footage about Pearl Harbor.


Well that's that then
By danskmacabre on 1/8/2008 5:28:49 AM , Rating: 2
I think we can safely say it's the end of the road for HD DVD.

Not that I'm going to buy either mind, I don't even have a Hidef TV, let alone bluray or HD DVD players.




RE: Well that's that then
By jacarte8 on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: Well that's that then
By FITCamaro on 1/8/2008 10:29:06 AM , Rating: 2
How's that stick up your ass? Starting to itch?


RE: Well that's that then
By Lugaidster on 1/8/2008 2:19:48 PM , Rating: 2
Couldn't have put it better.


Perfect Storm
By rupaniii on 1/8/2008 10:26:44 AM , Rating: 2
I tell you what...
Make HDDVD the China Only format.
Release only on HDDVD in china and BDRom everywhere else.

How's that sound for a solution?




RE: Perfect Storm
By Murst on 1/8/2008 10:41:17 AM , Rating: 2
What would be the point of that? China already has its own HD format.


Piece of the pie
By tallcool1 on 1/8/2008 10:57:25 AM , Rating: 2
Checking out the HD-DVD article on Wiki, they have a pie chart showing Studio support of each format.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HighDefShare.sv...
The chart has not been updated (as of this posting) to show Warner and New Line as Blu-Ray exclusive as this wont happen until May. But once you color those in blue, then it appears that the studio support will be about 75% Blue-Ray, 25% HD-DVD. If Paramount goes Blue (per the possiblities mentioned in this article) or even goes to Dual format, then that would certainly bring and end to this "format war".




RE: Piece of the pie
By Chiggs on 1/8/2008 8:25:35 PM , Rating: 2
This war is already over. It will be fun to revisit some of these comments in a few months time.


Most new HDTVs are 1080p now
By Serafina on 1/8/08, Rating: 0
By EODetroit on 1/8/2008 1:41:18 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
While most HD-DVD only goes up to 720p.


LOL wut? That's completely false.


Universal
By Visual on 1/9/2008 7:42:56 AM , Rating: 2
I wish Universal would get the hint already...

And there's no need for them to stop supporting HD-DVD... do like paramount, stop being exclusive.

That will be enough to end the war.




Still a broken piece of technology
By xstylus on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By Gnoad on 1/8/2008 6:49:34 AM , Rating: 3
I'm 100% sure that within the near future the hacking community will have totally bypassed all security features in Blu Ray. If you think otherwise, your wrong. Period.


RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By Hlafordlaes on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By wordsworm on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By novacthall on 1/8/2008 10:58:33 AM , Rating: 5
If you think otherwise, your wrong.

The word he's looking for is the contraction of "you" and "are" rather than the possessive. It's an honest enough mistake, hardly worth crucifying the guy over. He had a valid point otherwise.

What is it about the Internet that makes people have these twisted grammar, spelling, and punctuation obsessions? Did your 10th grade English teacher touch you inappropriately?


RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By madoka on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
By wordsworm on 1/14/2008 6:35:49 AM , Rating: 1
Well done. You did a magnificent job of taking things out of context. Bravo.

Kids and sex do mix. There's nothing anyone can do to stop it. It's well established in children's psychology. I'm not making things up. Kids are curious. I remember when I was a child, I was gender curious. I don't see kids as an outlet for my own sexual energy. There's not even a remote interest. In about 6 weeks I'll be back with my girlfriend. In about 8 weeks she'll be my wife. In about 10 weeks I'll be teaching again. btw., I was promoted this month to head teacher at the two institutes that the company owns. I care about kids, but I'm not teaching sex education, I'm just an English teacher with an English lit major/professional writing background. My first year of university I studied pedagogy but dropped it in favor of the professional writing minor. Despite all this, my own grasp of English is far from perfect. It's just much better than it was before I got the degree and gives me a certain level of expertise.

What I was defending in relation to spammers was what I believe should be their right to distribute whatever they wish within the same context as any ad that flops down in your mail box. I pointed out that they're a greater hassle than spam. One of the arguments against me was that it exposes kids to porn. I argued that kids who are too young to care won't be interested in pursuing the links, and the ones who are interested shouldn't be afraid of indulging their curiosity - just be prepared to answer a lot of questions after they've finished, not to mention try to have materials on hand that are educational, as opposed to freaking out over the fact that they have it. Even so, both of these arguments involve content rather than the act of spamming itself. Is a Viagra commercial going to have any effect at all on a child? Can they order it and try it? No, of course not. They might wonder what it is, but again, it becomes a question that the guardian should have an answer for.

In any case, you lacked reading comprehension in the posts you mentioned, and no doubt you haven't learned anything since then. Nonetheless, I felt obliged to defend my honor.

Now, a check on your own morality: when was the last time you bought a pair of Nike or Reebok shoes? I haven't bought a pair since I discovered that those companies use child labor. I also realized that guys like Tiger Woods promote and profit from child labor through their endorsements of such companies. I do care about kids' well being enough to forgo many products that I'd love to otherwise purchase. Do you?


By wordsworm on 1/14/2008 6:07:12 AM , Rating: 2
I wasn't the one crucifying the guy in the first place. I was attacking the guy who said it was misspelled, which any proof reader would say was incorrect. It's a wrong word. "yor wrong" would be an example of a misspelling. Don't believe me that there's a difference? See for yourself: http://webster.commnet.edu/writing/symbols.htm

I really hate it when people come down on others for little mistakes like that, as if it's the same as a counter argument to a debate. The meaning was clear, what was said. So, I attacked the guy who misdiagnosed the error.


RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By madoka on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By Flunk on 1/8/2008 12:29:18 PM , Rating: 2
Technically this is a grammar error since "your" is a valid word, just used in the wrong context.

Oops, this is totally out of hand. Does it really matter?


RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By masher2 on 1/8/2008 12:34:19 PM , Rating: 2
No, technically it's a spelling error. He chose the proper word, he simply misspelled it. The mere fact the mispelling is another word doesn't change that. :p


RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By Murst on 1/8/08, Rating: 0
RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By frobizzle on 1/8/2008 3:12:48 PM , Rating: 2
I believe you to be correct, Masher. In a later post we find...
quote:
But I do won a massive, ever expanding CD /LP colelction as well as DVDs and HD-DVDs

won is a legitimate word but obviously a transposition of letters where the author really meant own.

(We won't even discuss the spelling of collection here)


By Xerstead on 1/8/2008 4:18:00 PM , Rating: 3
But surely that would be considered a typo :)
Now this is getting silly...


By XtAzY on 1/8/2008 1:31:39 PM , Rating: 2
Why do people always start something off-topic that deals with spelling problems. I mean, WHO CARES! If there's a spelling within the article, I guess you can tell the author to correct it, but correcting our spelling mistakes that isn't part of original discussion and to start a feud is pretty pointless IMO.


RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By lopri on 1/8/2008 7:07:57 AM , Rating: 2
There is not much difference in current implement of DRM between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Besides, DRM isn't an issue when you drop your disc in stand-alone players (including PS3 or HD-DVD add-on for XBox360). The issue begins when one attempts to 'rip' the disc.

While I'm pretty sure any newly developed DRM scheme will be eventually countered, do you really want to sit down and rip these 50GB discs? How many a day? I'd spend my time more wisely until the situation matures. (for ripping these 50GB discs.. lol)


RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By jonmcc33 on 1/8/2008 7:41:12 AM , Rating: 2
Problems ripping the disc? Is that why there are tons of Blu-ray rips available for torrent download?


By therealnickdanger on 1/8/2008 8:47:00 AM , Rating: 2
Shhhhh! They'll hear you!


RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By Chevron on 1/8/08, Rating: 0
RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By SavagePotato on 1/8/08, Rating: 0
By Belard on 1/9/2008 4:15:35 AM , Rating: 2
LOL! That's kinda funny! On the mean side, we could call it "HD-DUD"...

Region free was one of the factors for half the studios to NOT want HD-DVD. Currently, I think about 30% of all BR titles are actually region coded and won't effect over 90% of the users.

Weak arguments.. guh. Heres a good much better one... Looking at data from www.formatwarcentral.com - About 50% of BR Discs are double layered, while 85% of HD-DVDs are double layered... ie: they are already running out of space for data on HD-DVD compared to Blu-Ray. (15gb vs 25gb)


By rninneman on 1/8/2008 12:59:52 PM , Rating: 5
The security on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray has been fully reverse engineered for some time now. You are obviously a lazy pirate because you cannot use a search engine to find out that Slysoft AnyDVD HD has been doing this for months now. (They have even reverse engineered BD+.)


RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By suryad on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: Still a broken piece of technology
By jacarte8 on 1/8/2008 9:51:46 AM , Rating: 5
What do you mean /sarcasm? I am sorry that if people with this naive outlook continue to bury their collective heads in the sand, we'll eventually lose rights to do what we want. I presently have ripped all 200+ DVD's in my collection to my Windows Home Server, to watch HOW and WHERE I want, and not have to have a Blu-Ray license to watch on my Blu-Ray, an Xbox license to watch on my 360 upstairs, and an iPod license to watch there. When will the madness stop?


By enlil242 on 1/8/2008 2:46:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
we'll eventually lose rights to do what we want to boot.


The problem with this thinking is that, today, there are many people who just don't care, and feel that they shouldn't have to pay for anything, and pass this mentality down to there kids.

Your point is valid, I am not disputing that. The issue is I know too many people who seem to think that it's ok to download any and every movie, hack every console they own, all the while demonstrating to their children that it's perfectly fine and to say, "look, Dad is so cool, he got you all these games and movies for FREE."

Now, don't get me wrong, I have downloaded the odd mp3 here and there, and watched movies on a disc that had the title written in Sharpie. But I do won a massive, ever expanding CD /LP colelction as well as DVDs and HD-DVDs. However, it is the few knuckleheads in this world that are the main reason for such measures to unfold ... and if that happens so be it.

I am sure at somepoint, someone will figure out that they can offer downloadable movies with a digital finger print that you could use on a media server, or even burn to a HD Disc if you choose. If there's one thing that I have learnt over the years, is if there is a market for a piece of technology, than there will be products to satisfy it...


By Bioniccrackmonk on 1/8/2008 9:17:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I won't buy what I can't control.


So this means you won't be buying anything anymore?


By rninneman on 1/8/2008 12:57:23 PM , Rating: 2
I guess you don't buy DVDs either then. After all, DVDs have DRM that is not legal to circumvent. Thats why DRM exists; to thwart pirates like you.


By deeznuts on 1/8/2008 1:01:12 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Still not buying a Blu-Ray player until its DRM poison is fully nullified, though granted we're halfway there. I won't buy what I can't control.
Hmm, I must have skipped over those versions. My Blu-Ray discs didn't come with a midget preventing me from putting my disc into the Blu-Ray player when I want to. I fully control my copy.


ruhroh
By andrewrocks on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
RE: ruhroh
By BrownJohn on 1/8/2008 1:12:34 PM , Rating: 1
they still have the PS3 to complain about, well until they step in line to buy a blu-ray player to sit next to their xbox 360 and wii.


RE: ruhroh
By Serafina on 1/8/2008 1:28:30 PM , Rating: 2
I bet all those people who bought a HD-DVD add on for the 360 are kicking themselves right now.


RE: ruhroh
By porkpie on 1/8/2008 1:52:16 PM , Rating: 2
It always amazes me how many people are not only willing to accept the DRM-infested beast that is BD-Java, but actually ROOT for it. All just because they feel they're protecting their investment in a PS3.

Sad. Really sad.


RE: ruhroh
By ioKain on 1/8/2008 3:15:25 PM , Rating: 2
haha


RE: ruhroh
By enlil242 on 1/8/2008 5:33:00 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I bet all those people who bought a HD-DVD add on for the 360 are kicking themselves right now.


$179 for the HD-DVD addon? Notsomuch. If anything, I have an upconverting DVD player / DVD/HDDVD-ROM drive.

Now, you want to hear stories of me kicking myself? ...

$499 for my Sony BetaMax in the early 80's? Mega-pissed, as I bought it with all my paper route savings .

$299 for my Sony MiniDisc Player in the 90's? Mega-pissed.

Having to pay 2x - 4x more for a stupid Sony memory stick made me shy away from Sony Digicams.

These last three examples is why I am skiddish to anything Sony has their mits in.


RE: ruhroh
By JoshuaBuss on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
Good news !
By zpdixon on 1/8/08, Rating: -1
“Then they pop up and say ‘Hello, surprise! Give us your money or we will shut you down!' Screw them. Seriously, screw them. You can quote me on that.” -- Newegg Chief Legal Officer Lee Cheng referencing patent trolls
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