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New console is expected to feature an octacore CPU, support for 50 GB Blu-Ray disc

Gaming magazine Edge is the latest to leak details on the hardware and software plans for Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) upcoming home-gaming console, code-named "next generation Xbox" or "Xbox 720".  

I. Xbox 720 -- Death of the Used Game?

Perhaps most interesting, the Edge report claims that Microsoft is preparing to come down hard on the used game market (a market customers love, but developers/console-makers hate because they don't get a cut).  

Games will be sold (optionally) on physical media -- 50 GB Blu-Ray discs (surely Blu-Ray kingpin Sony Corp. (TYO:6758) is pleased with that).  But to play the game you will have to have your console connected to the internet.  And each game will be uniquely associated to your Xbox Live account.  While the hacker crowd may be able to come up with elaborate workarounds, for most users that spells essentially a death sentence to second-hand or used games.

Used Xbox 360 games
The Xbox 720 will no longer allowed used games, reportedly. [Image Source: Multiplayer]

The Edge report echoes previous rumors on the hardware front, suggesting the console will carry a 1.6 GHz octa-core x64 CPU.  

However, it puts a face on the chip, suggesting that the CPU will be manufactured by Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD) and is code-named Liverpool.  The console is also expected to pack a D3D11.x 800MHz graphics solution and 8GB of DDR3 RAM.

II. Developers Say PS4 is Easier to Develop For

While Nintendo Comp., Ltd. (TYO:7974) continues to be the market's quirky character with its hot-selling Wii U -- which launched last holiday season, featuring a more minimalist hardware spec and novel mini-tablet-based gaming -- Sony and Microsoft's next generation consoles are on the surface very similar.

Most reports indicate that both consoles will launch this holiday season, although a handful of reports have suggested an early launch sometime this spring/summer.  And both consoles carry a PC-like architecture.  This is a major shift for Sony, which reportedly admitted internally that it "messed up" with the PS3's more custom console architecture (versus a more PC-like hardware design).

Sony's PlayStation 4 is expected to carry 8 GB of DDR3, like Microsoft's Xbox 720.  Sony's "Durango" development kits.  AMD is expected to use the same Liverpool CPU, as well.  But where as Microsoft's GPU source has not been clarified, rumors indicate the PS4 will pack an AMD "R10XX" architecture GPU chip.

The upcoming PS4 is allegedly more powerful and easier to develop for than the Xbox 720.
[Image Source: Gamasutra]

According to Edge's industry sources, the PS4 is "slightly more powerful" and "very simple to work with."  The Xbox 720 is reportedly slightly harder to develop for with the current kits, a reversal of last generation's trends.

That could spell trouble for Microsoft.  However, Microsoft has some tricks up its sleeve, such as a next generation version of its Kinect motion controller and an improved version of its already thriving Xbox Live online gaming network.

Sources: Edge [1], [2]

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By Reclaimer77 on 2/6/2013 11:45:43 AM , Rating: 5
I'm getting too old for consoles anyway. And this effort to kill used games seals the deal for me. Xbox it was nice knowing you, thanks for the good times, but it's back to 100% PC gaming for me now. Microsoft you've gone too far this time, sir.

RE: Good
By Reclaimer77 on 2/6/2013 11:48:06 AM , Rating: 5
Also what's the difference between a "used game" and one that a friend brought over to play? I guess the "friends bringing games over" market was a huge threat to Microsoft. How dare groups of people get together and enjoy our console product!

RE: Good
By DanNeely on 2/6/2013 12:01:23 PM , Rating: 3
If they don't want to abuse customers they could allow you to take the disk to your friends console, authenticate as yourself, and then temporarily allow the game to play on their console instead of yours.

RE: Good
By Motoman on 2/6/2013 12:06:02 PM , Rating: 5
If they don't want to abuse customers they could allow you to buy/sell/trade used video games at will, like you've always done.

FIFY. The practice they're proposing is nothing but an abuse of the customer. Period.

RE: Good
By RufusM on 2/6/2013 2:47:29 PM , Rating: 5
+6 this fine man!

This effectively eliminates game rentals too, which is something the publishing pricks hate too, along with the RIAA, MPAA, etc.

This was part of the attraction of buying a console. With my other consoles I can plug them in many years from now and play any of its games. I don't have to worry about DRM and being locked out of a game, with the exception being multi-player relying on a game server somewhere. I can sell my used consoles and games to defray the cost of new ones.

If they move ahead with this, I will switch to Sony unless they do it too. If everyone moves to this model, I may do a boycott and just go do something else with my money.

RE: Good
By GulWestfale on 2/6/2013 3:18:02 PM , Rating: 5
is a banner hammer a hammer with banners on it, or are you saying that MS will have banners depicting hammers included with each xbox?

as for the topic... sony has recently applied for a patent that would allow their new console to associate each game disc wit one specific console, even if the console is not connected to the internet. the first thing that came to mind was -like reclaimer said- now i can't bring games to my brother's house anymore. plus, no more lending games to your friends. you'd have to actually bring your own console along with the game disc... lame. then there's the used market; i cannot justify spending $60 on a map pack for "Call of Bunnyhoppers" or "This Year's Uniform Designs in Last Year's Sports Game", but at $20 used it's alright for a weekend or two.
and when you look at prices of games on steam... well, why would i buy a console? i need a PC for my work, so it's already there. the price of a decent graphics card is roughly in line with the price of a console, so i'd rather spend my money on that, and get good games at a fair price.

and as far as netflix and youtube on my TV are concerned, you don't need a console for that, either. if you can't (or don't want to) stream that from your PC, you can just hook up your smartphone to your TV, and without paying for xbox live.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/6/13, Rating: -1
RE: Good
By augiem on 2/6/2013 6:17:23 PM , Rating: 2
not socialist countries, but countries with socialized medicine

RE: Good
By PresidentThomasJefferson on 2/6/2013 8:31:24 PM , Rating: 2
About 50% of pharma research is funded by gov funding

Even antibiotics, MRI machines, & genetic engineering were invented/funded by gov ..and mostly via gov money creation aka 'deficit' spending because all gov spending becomes income for the private sector

Seven Deadly Frauds of Economic Policy by Bank CEO/economist Warren Mosler from - --he's made billions from being middle-class following his own MMT economics advice

RE: Good
By inperfectdarkness on 2/7/2013 3:05:09 AM , Rating: 4
Negative, Ghostrider.

While the PC is less popular these days, that is the fault of CONSUMERS who have voted with their $$$ that they wanted consoles to be at the forefront of gaming. Consoles, which--mind you--are traditionally based around hardware sales for a loss, and software sale at a price which compensates for it.

The reason why PC games are lower cost (and the prices on them fall faster than their console bretheren) is because the MFG isn't trying to get back into the black after subsidizing your hardware purchase. It's the same reason why pre-paid plans are cheaper; you aren't paying in the long-term for your carrier to subsidize your phone.

On a side note, I am GREATLY disturbed by this trend towards elimination of second-hand markets. Even on Steam, I'm unwilling to buy new games because this business-model eliminates my ability to recoup any of my money on a game--if I decide I'm done using it.

What I can predict is that piracy (due to these kinds of draconian DRM measures) is going to skyrocket. Whereas before, I might be able to buy a $50 game and get $30 on trade-in, allowing me to purchase another new game for only $20 more. Instead, now I'll have to fork over $50 each time I want a new game. In the long run, this is only going to HURT developers. They will sell less games & piracy will increase dramatically; because people aren't willing to spend full-price on a game they might not even like.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/7/2013 4:20:33 AM , Rating: 2
The amount the console seller loses is insignificant when you consider how many games are being sold. The company would easily make up the hardware costs after only a handful of games sold to each console owner judging by the price difference between some PC and console games these days. The rest is profit. The console maker gets his cut of the higher price, but so do the developer and publisher. Subsidization is a small factor in the equation.

As for Steam, they take a 30% cut of everything sold, so the issue of the "manufacturer" taking his cut pops up on the PC as well.

Consider this: How many $100 million budget games have been developed for the PC which are not console ports? Yes, you are right the consumer has decided consoles are king. By their choices, they've shaped the developers' choices. They go where the money is. These big budget games simply would not exist if, with the market as it stands right now, they were sold on the PC exclusively because there's not enough sales to support the dev costs. And with the price slashing that goes on in the PC world, even more so.

PC game prices could simply not remain as low as they are if it weren't for the console market propping it up, as sad as that is. Can a company afford to make Batman Arkham City and sell it for $5 like frequently happens on Steam? Or a two-pack of Bioshock for $5-$10? No, that's simply ridiculous.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/7/13, Rating: 0
RE: Good
By 91TTZ on 2/7/2013 10:09:52 AM , Rating: 2
People were primarily driven to the phones/tablets/etc based on their design, but as the design of all the devices becomes more similar people are migrating to open ecosystems. For instance, free operating systems like Android and Linux seem to be gaining ground on Microsoft and Apple, and free programs are increasingly being used instead of pay programs.

This whole walled garden/no used software trend is just what it looks like when the pay software industry enters a downward spiral. Since they can no longer bully the overall industry (the way Microsoft and Apple tried to do) they're resorting to squeezing their existing customer base for more profit. This will, in turn, shrink their customer base as people become pissed off.

RE: Good
By TheJian on 2/10/2013 9:45:16 AM , Rating: 3
Steam doesn't stop piracy. Everything that comes on "steam only" is ripped immediately. There are groups that release steam games all the time.

CD Projekt noted this with the witcher 2, saying that the steam version was the most pirated version they sold...LOL.

NOTE it was sold on GOG with no protection the same day. DRM gets you nothing but a PITA for your HONEST PAYING customers.

Charge less (meaning more reasonable, say $20-30) for games and sell more copies without protections. Torchlight, Legends of Grimrock etc are paving the NEW wave of gaming. Thank god. They make just as much on torchlight 2 at $20 as they did with $60 retail games. The exact $12 per copy. Why pay some company $60 then because they're fat and bloated with useless management? Bring on the puny devs by the thousands ;)

I'll gladly pay $20-30 for a great torchlight 2 type game vs. D3 at $60. Ideally I'd like to see them charge $30 for the next torchlight and make it 50% larger/longer game. ;) I don't think games are worth more than $30 these days (especially when they are shorter than 15hrs). I guess that's why I concentrate on RPG/Strategy these days and not much FPS. I prefer to get 50-100hrs+ of gameplay for my money with no need to deal with online trash (and the punks/cheats that come with it).

ps. Clouds are stupid and need to die (especially in IT - totally dumb here). Buying an app from an appstore (or game) isn't cloud based. Cloud means RUNNING on that cloud and depending on it to work. Buying something from googleplay doesn't mean I run from there, I download it and install my game and run it OFFLINE on a tablet etc. Totally different from xbox720 requiring internet to even fire up your games. Even the disc you buy will be forced online in this case or not work. So in effect your local game disc becomes cloud forced. Obviously without a perf hit, but a PITA. So if my net is down I can't use it? That will go over big.

People put up with steam because of $5 sales all day and easy updates/downloads/purchases. Try that with $60 games forced online totally and watch sales tank. We buy from app stores, we don't play through or require them after purchase. Big difference. Even steam can be turned to offline mode usually (though I still view it as a virus...LOL - I own 0 steam games). LOVE gog though :)

You don't have to play on WOW servers my friend. Nor do you need to play on their servers for starcraft2 etc. The only game I know still not hacked is D3. Which I'm not sure enough people even care to play though I'm sure they working on remapping the rmah for private use as I type this ;) These tactics are pointless over time. Private Server hacks...Nuff said.

RE: Good
By djkrypplephite on 2/9/2013 10:38:40 PM , Rating: 2
I'm betting they will directly do game rentals via download much like iTunes does with movies. That way, they will profit from it and run retail competition out. So yes, you will still be able to rent I'm sure. At what price when they own a monopoly on it, who can say?

RE: Good
By Da W on 2/7/2013 9:07:48 AM , Rating: 3
You can buy a car and resell it.
You can buy a house and resell it, generally at a profit except for a market crash.
You can buy fournitures and resell them.
Everything you can buy, you own and can resell.
Except for... software. Now you rent. Like if the car still belonged to the factory.
It's time we Wake up dudes!
I know Microsoft lost me on this one. (Not that Sony will have me either....)

RE: Good
By 91TTZ on 2/7/2013 10:02:35 AM , Rating: 5
That would seem to open up a workaround:

You create a new Xbox Live account for each game you buy. When you sell the game you sell the account, too.

If they require a credit card then you use a gift card.

RE: Good
By mrisinger on 2/6/13, Rating: -1
RE: Good
By koenshaku on 2/7/2013 11:43:12 AM , Rating: 2
This article is both inconsistent and incoherent. I will take this all as nonsense, for one no one is so stupid to have a console require an internet connection for one. I can understand you not being able to play multiplayer on live without a $10 fee which is already in place in EA games this practice I doubt will go any further if it did you will find games that say on the boxes "can only be played on one system." which is crazy. Forgive the typos I have no idea why this text box is so effing small. I can see why the author has so much trouble if he writes in these lol.

RE: Good
By Ammohunt on 2/6/2013 12:20:08 PM , Rating: 3
I agree, with PC gaming i can purchase, download and play a game within hours and not have to pay for the internet twice all while sitting comfortably in my command chair with a display of my own.

RE: Good
By theapparition on 2/7/2013 11:35:22 AM , Rating: 2
Let's be fair here.

The article's conclusion about not being able to buy used games, or sharing, or everything else is just speculation. All they are doing is tracking serial numbers. And this has basically been part of PC gaming forever (you know, those activation codes and registrations).

I seriously doubt the conclusions this article is speculating on. I bet the used game and rental market will be fine.

RE: Good
By Ammohunt on 2/8/2013 1:18:08 PM , Rating: 2
Activation codes that are typically printed in a book that goes along with the game if you want to sell it. Schemes have varied over the years for sure but PC games are typically less expensive too.

RE: Good
By NellyFromMA on 2/6/13, Rating: -1
RE: Good
By FITCamaro on 2/6/2013 12:27:54 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sure there will be a way to transfer because otherwise you couldn't buy a game and then take it to someone's house. Plus services like Gamefly would be gone.

RE: Good
By bah12 on 2/6/2013 12:32:59 PM , Rating: 5
Piracy is a very minor part of this, what they are really looking to kill is GameFly. They hate the idea of a person getting to play the game first only to find out it is garbage, without shelling out the ridiculous $60.

RE: Good
By NellyFromMA on 2/6/13, Rating: -1
RE: Good
By bah12 on 2/6/2013 1:13:21 PM , Rating: 5
Piracy is the oh so sweet marketing sauce being used to make this palatable to the idiotic masses, but make no mistake the primary goal here is to create a "per user" model and strip you of actually "owning" anything.

If they can pull it off here, it won't be long before the media giants do the same for music/movies.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/6/2013 3:18:52 PM , Rating: 1
If they can pull it off here, it won't be long before the media giants do the same for music/movies.

Ever heard of iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Xbox Live Marketplace, PSN... It's already here. Has been for a while.

RE: Good
By zerocks on 2/6/2013 3:44:31 PM , Rating: 4
Ever heard of iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Xbox Live Marketplace, PSN... It's already here. Has been for a while.

Yes because I can't still buy a DVD/Bluray and bring it around to a friends house to watch it without signing in to my account..

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/6/2013 6:37:45 PM , Rating: 2
True. I guess the point was, the day is coming when you won't be able to buy digital media and ferry it around. And it's not just starting with MS. It's already well underway and has been for a while. We're half way there.

RE: Good
By tng on 2/6/2013 6:52:40 PM , Rating: 3
That is what the "Cloud" is for... so that they can keep track of what you have and you think it is convenient.

Yes I am paranoid.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/7/2013 4:35:24 AM , Rating: 2
Paranoid and correct.

RE: Good
By RufusM on 2/6/2013 4:26:31 PM , Rating: 3
If Microsoft wants to charge me $X/month to play any game in their library via DRM digital download (comparable to Neflix streaming) I'll buy that if it has enough value for the cost. I'll even buy a digital game that is DRM'd if the cost is low enough and it provides enough value.

I won't, however, buy a digital game for $60 (or digital movie from Amazon) that is DRM'd and can be taken away from me at their whim. When I buy a game I want to be able to play it when I want on the hardware it was designed for AND sell later like any other physical object I purchase (TV, computer, whatever). If they take that away, I simply won't participate in buying.

RE: Good
By NellyFromMA on 2/7/2013 12:35:02 PM , Rating: 3
How dare I think for myself. Hence be branded idiot.

RE: Good
By nafhan on 2/6/2013 1:25:59 PM , Rating: 2
It's impossible to know how big of a piece of the pie piracy is, actually. So, you really can't say that. Making it slightly more difficult (which is all they'll be doing here) is probably a bonus nonetheless.

Anyway, what you (and MS) do know is that there's a certain chain of stores in nearly every town in the country kept alive in no small part by profits off used video game sales. The people buying the used games ARE very clearly willing to pay real money for games. They might be willing to wait until the prices come down a bit, but, regardless, unlike pirates, they are verified paying customers.

RE: Good
By ruronirican on 2/6/13, Rating: 0
RE: Good
By StanO360 on 2/6/2013 4:28:22 PM , Rating: 3
Wow, great point. All the mid-tier games will be screwed by this. People will stop taking chances with games. They also will wait until the price drops.

Consumers are relentless and vicious, they will punish companies that don't give them good value for their money.

RE: Good
By Reclaimer77 on 2/6/2013 4:34:55 PM , Rating: 2
Paying customers to whatever chain they are purchasing the game from... the developers and publishers of said game don't see a dime from that transaction.

Boo hoo?

Next we'll have to stop the 'evil' practice of used book stores!

Publishers are only entitled to profits from the original point of sale. To put forth this argument that they are owed any more than that, is absurd.

In all events with games now being made costing much more than in the past... every used game sold in a retail venue means that the one that actually could help the company stay afloat is sitting on the shelf

No. Wrong. That is entirely the wrong way of looking at this. Laughably so.

RE: Good
By RufusM on 2/6/2013 5:31:19 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention anything else used if this is the new model going forward:

-Cars...nope those are locked to your retina scan. If anyone else tries to drive the car it won't work.

-Clothes...nope those are now locked to your DNA. If anyone else wears it...poof it disintegrates.

...and on and on.

RE: Good
By NellyFromMA on 2/7/13, Rating: 0
RE: Good
By HostileEffect on 2/7/2013 7:27:53 PM , Rating: 2
I'm over the age of 21 and have held a physically demanding job for enough years to know that the few dollars I make will never be worth the blood, sweat, and tears I put into it, much less an over priced disc.

I have been burned too many times by media to keep feeding them money for over priced garbage and I simply stopped buying it. If Media and game companies produced something other than garbage and offered it for a sane price without DRM restrictions, $5.99 DVD, $10.99 Blu-ray, $39.99 DVD game, I may be more inclined to risk money on it again.

I still remember when good original PC games cost $29.99-39.99 with the rare exception of a $50 game that was the must have AAA title. Now it seems $49.99 is the standard not including sales tax or gas to get the product.

Example of being burned: I bought a few AAA titles but with online activations, I couldn't play until nearly a week after purchase when I had the time to take my laptop to a public internet site. Anything over STEAM was not a pleasant experience either.

RE: Good
By NellyFromMA on 2/11/2013 4:40:43 PM , Rating: 2
That makes 1 person so far. So what's an industry to do when the model in existance for 15-20 years doesn't address its needs? I just wonder what an alternative could even be vs 9/10 posters on here who just think they are entitled to everything because its digital and therefor their own (hint, its not).

RE: Good
By Ammohunt on 2/6/2013 1:28:57 PM , Rating: 5
Good point this may actually affect game sales by killing off word of mouth. I personally read multiple reviews and more importantly user feedback before i even consider putting money down.

RE: Good
By TakinYourPoints on 2/7/2013 4:12:24 AM , Rating: 2
Piracy is the least of their concerns.

Look at the billions in revenue that Gamestop makes. A lot of that is on the back of used game sales, money that publishers and developers only saw the first time it was sold as new, not the 2nd/3rd/4th time.

Its all about the used market. Console piracy is so small in comparison its almost a rounding error.

RE: Good
By enlil242 on 2/7/2013 11:11:44 AM , Rating: 3
Microsoft and Game Publishers have to realize that I will not pay $60 to play a game I may find "meh". Right now, if I find that kind of game at GameStop for $20, I'll buy it as that is my price point for these kind of "B" titles. There are not enough "blockbuster titles" that will compel me to pay that kind of money for let alone invest in the console and XBOX Live subscription.

RE: Good
By TakinYourPoints on 2/7/2013 5:37:08 PM , Rating: 2
Same here. Rapid price reduction like what is done on Steam is a happy medium IMHO.

RE: Good
By NellyFromMA on 2/6/2013 1:05:40 PM , Rating: 1
LOL I was downrated for offering insight. Sorry for disagreeing with the forum gods!

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/6/2013 3:15:38 PM , Rating: 1
You were downrated by pirates.

RE: Good
By Reclaimer77 on 2/6/2013 3:34:56 PM , Rating: 4
You call that insight? As if we're not already tired of this boogeyman "pirate" excuse being used for everything?

Honestly what percentage of Xbox consoles do you actually believe were modded? Maybe like 2%, maybe. Probably less. Oh yeah, that's really killed Microsoft's profits!

RE: Good
By StanO360 on 2/6/2013 4:30:05 PM , Rating: 2
No where close to 2%. But piracy is not the issue with that, it's playing COD WAW and guys shooting tank rounds out of their carbines!

RE: Good
By JKflipflop98 on 2/7/2013 10:13:54 AM , Rating: 2
It is "the issue with that" because you have to have a modded box to play pirated games. That's the real reason people mod their xboxes. Being able to auto-fire howitzer rounds out of your MP5 is just a nice bonus.

RE: Good
By MrBlastman on 2/6/2013 4:56:16 PM , Rating: 5
No what killed console sales was not piracy but instead... lack of interest!

I owned consoles before the latest gen--at least one of each for the most part all the way back to the 2600. It stopped (almost) with the most recent iteration. I do own a Wii but, admittedly, it isn't really what you would consider the current family. I saw no point in getting an 360 or PS 3 because--the few games I was interested in that came out on those machines were ported to the PC with better interfaces and controls.

Consoles killed themselves. Not piracy. They became redundant. At some point the end user asks themselves--Hey! I have to be online to use this thing... but my PC does too. And my PC has a keyboard. A mouse. Better controllers--all this and more. Why bother?

And so they did.

PC gaming, like it or not, is strong right now. Not due to pirates killing the consoles. It was due to them becoming an obsolete concept.

Draconian measures like preventing used game sales kills all interest I had in the newer systems (which was near zero anyways). Most of my older systems were fueled by used games. Now you can't even do that. Why bother? I have a toddler now and am faced with a decision: To pay full price for new releases on consoles or let her use the old stuff that I have.

It is easy to answer the question too--use the older stuff. Or let her play Steam games that I buy on super sales.

Forget it Microsoft. You're being asinine with this move.

RE: Good
By tng on 2/6/2013 3:28:55 PM , Rating: 3
If MS allowed digital used game sales and paired it with the ability to log in as another live user and play a game that user has (for the whole bring a game to a friend's house scenario) this would be a non-issue for 99.9% of the user base.

I think that you are incorrect about this.

If you want to play your game on a friends console because his monitor is bigger, but he does not own the game? You basically have to tell MS everywhere you play, what you play, how long and with who?

This is just a scheme that will promote more piracy.

RE: Good
By TerranMagistrate on 2/6/2013 12:21:21 PM , Rating: 2
That or there's always the PS4 assuming Sony isn't foolish enough to follow suit. Speaking of PC gaming, I can hardly wait for SC2:HotS.

RE: Good
By Azethoth on 2/6/2013 12:56:00 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, lets be serious. All the really good games are on PC anyway.

My XBox is so that I can pay $500 - $600 to play 2 or 3 versions of Halo + some Kinect and dance titles.

RE: Good
By ClownPuncher on 2/6/2013 3:25:22 PM , Rating: 2
If it's that easy to fool you out of $600, I have a white van in the parking lot full of "quality" merchandise.

RE: Good
By tng on 2/6/2013 3:32:58 PM , Rating: 2
...assuming Sony isn't foolish enough to follow suit.

RE: Good
By BZDTemp on 2/6/13, Rating: -1
RE: Good
By Reclaimer77 on 2/6/2013 3:44:36 PM , Rating: 3
To old for consoles!? Why - aren't they allowed at the retirement home?

Har har. Yeah I was just there, fucking your grandmother :)

RE: Good
By tng on 2/6/2013 6:31:15 PM , Rating: 2
That was AWESOME RC. Best laugh I have had for a week!

RE: Good
By mmntech on 2/6/2013 2:14:56 PM , Rating: 2
If they're going to make may buy new games, they're going to have to get a lot cheaper than they are now. Steam has frequent sales to encourage me to buy PC games. $60 a pop for games is too much.

And requiring an internet connection just to play? Didn't they learn anything from Ubisoft? All I can say is it makes my decision a lot easier if they do implement this.

RE: Good
By eagle470 on 2/6/13, Rating: 0
RE: Good
By augiem on 2/6/2013 3:11:36 PM , Rating: 1
Good god! There IS one person on the web who can still think! ;)

RE: Good
By ClownPuncher on 2/6/2013 3:34:56 PM , Rating: 3
Correct, but it certainly isn't the guy above you.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/6/2013 6:22:33 PM , Rating: 1
The tidal wave of entitlement is staggering.

RE: Good
By tng on 2/6/2013 6:50:43 PM , Rating: 3
...developers spend the money to hire the people... Those people get paid by that company... All that costs money... the developer has bills to pay...
Funny, where I work, we have mechanical engineers, software engineers, manufacturing personnel, accounting, etc...

All of whom make a fairly large sum of money for what they do and when a machine goes out the door we can count on parts and service sales and other income over the lifetime of the tool, but when that machine is sold to another customer we don't brick the software in it until we get a fee! It is just unethical.

If it is a question of licensing as opposed to buying that is one thing. No where at any checkout counter was I ever told that I was being licensed to use, but buying.

RE: Good
By ClownPuncher on 2/6/2013 6:52:37 PM , Rating: 3

That's not a word you know the definition to.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/7/2013 4:26:11 AM , Rating: 1
But you, sir, most certainly do. You need only look in the mirror.

RE: Good
By ClownPuncher on 2/7/2013 5:43:25 PM , Rating: 2
What did I say I was entitled to? What are you even talking about?

If you're going to debate, put some effort into it. Otherwise you bore me.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/8/2013 2:41:32 AM , Rating: 2
I put the same effort forth as you did.

Entitlement. That's not a word you know the definition to.

This is debate? Try again.

RE: Good
By ClownPuncher on 2/8/13, Rating: 0
RE: Good
By ClownPuncher on 2/6/2013 3:39:04 PM , Rating: 2
You were a retailer, not a developer. Completely different. People could also buy anything they wanted from your store and sell it on Craigslist the very next day.

Want to try again?

RE: Good
By eagle470 on 2/6/13, Rating: -1
RE: Good
By ClownPuncher on 2/6/2013 4:00:34 PM , Rating: 2
My fault.

Either way, you're still comparing apples to oranges. Developers make a product to sell. Developers are also not usually the ones who profit from a games sales, that would be the publisher. Most of the time, royalties do not get back to the developer unless the developer is a subsidiary of the publisher. Developers are often paid for a contract and then their job is done.

Not that I would condone piracy, I don't.

-your services often add value to the car, and that car can be sold for a higher price.

RE: Good
By eagle470 on 2/6/2013 4:19:48 PM , Rating: 2
Negatory, My services usually kept the car running, the car was always depreciating in value. Of course I worked in a rather poor area, it was kind of sad sometimes....But I digress.

The developer wouldn't have a job if it weren't for the publisher though, so how can you justify screwing over the publisher, when if they go out of business, the developer no longer has contracts to win.

RE: Good
By Rukkian on 2/6/2013 5:06:56 PM , Rating: 3
Then the developers should make something that is not crap that I may want to keep for more than a month. If I pay $60 for a game, I should own it. If you want to go to a service where I pay $5/ month for a game, then fine, but if I have to pay $60, then have no rights to unload it to another fool when the game sucks (as most seem to nowadays), then you can get bent.

I will stop buying games at full price, plain and simple as the value is not longer there, and I am betting I will not be the only one.

RE: Good
By Reclaimer77 on 2/6/2013 5:20:59 PM , Rating: 2
Also nobody is talking about micro-transactions!!! Every game is heading that way these days. Even used games can be profitable with micro-transactions.

RE: Good
By ClownPuncher on 2/6/2013 7:02:37 PM , Rating: 2
So, a car that doesn't work has the same value as one that does?

RE: Good
By Reclaimer77 on 2/6/2013 4:50:26 PM , Rating: 1
Wow, big words. When I grow up I hope I too can aspire to be a manager at a Meineke.

By the way that's the proper spelling. How someone who supposedly has worked there can't even spell it right, then goes off on a rant about others intelligence, is beyond me. You probably saw the word MEINEKE a thousand times a day, you would think it would sink in?

Those people get paid by that company to make the game. All that costs money, if the companies you people worked for had the business model you are apparently advocating for, you're employer would be out of business in a heart beat.

What the fuck are you talking about? There has been a used console game market in full force since the goddamn Atari!!! Over thirty years now! How has that driven people out of business??

You're twisting my argument to be like some sort of statement of entitlement, and I strongly object to that. Strongly!

Let me make this real fucking simple. Lets say I run a lemonade stand. I figure all my overhead and settle on a price per-drink that gives me the profit margin I want. If Suzie and Sandy decide to share a cup of lemonade, have I lost money? NO! Have I lost a POTENTIAL sale? Yes. But I have not lost anything. I've still made the profit on Suzie's sale that I've decided on before hand.

Maybe this concept is too deep for your muffler shuffling ass to comprehend. But game developers and publishers have already made EVERY RED CENT off the original game sale that they wanted to.

So where you get off saying I'm complaining about game prices, or feel entitled to free gaming, if offensive to me. That's not the argument at all.

RE: Good
By inperfectdarkness on 2/7/2013 3:15:54 AM , Rating: 2
$50 for an N64 game also meant that I could sell it at funcoland and buy something else.

As a consumer, if you offer ANY product that I am unable to resell for partial-cost, I am very, very unlikely to buy from you. Unless, of course, you're offering it at such a huge discount that it's in the price range of a starbucks coffee or a combo meal from taco-bell.

This goes for everything from games to cars.

RE: Good
By 91TTZ on 2/7/2013 10:15:18 AM , Rating: 1
So what's your opinion on people being able to buy used cars? After that initial sale, the dealer/manufacturer doesn't get a cut of any subsequent sales. Should car manufacturers be allowed to prevent the sale of used cars? Maybe they can say it's a safety issue and that they can't guarantee the safety of a car that didn't come directly from them. It would be all bullshit, but would you find such tactics acceptable?


I agree. Just don't complain when it turns out that the market can't bear it and these companies go out of business.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/6/2013 3:13:58 PM , Rating: 2
PC is increasingly moving to digital distribution. Steam is exactly what MS is proposing already. You cannot sell your games on Steam. You cannot play your games on another PC unless you log in with your Steam account. The only difference is that you can buy a disc to install it instead of digital download only. Otherwise, the two models are identical. Unless you're going to advocate playing only DRM-free, DVD only PC games, in which case, you don't have too many options left.

RE: Good
By kattanna on 2/6/2013 3:42:32 PM , Rating: 2
And each game will be uniquely associated to your Xbox Live account.

and that sounds exactly like what steam does. If I want to play a game I have bought through steam, I can log into someone else's computer with MY steam account and play it.

sounds exactly the same to me

though.. you cannot sell games you have bought on steam to others.. but you can get great deals during the sales

RE: Good
By seamonkey79 on 2/6/2013 7:02:32 PM , Rating: 3
I can, however, pay $5 for a game 6 months ago people were paying $60 to pre-order. Something tells me MS isn't going to go for that quite as readily, considering four year old games (Batman Arkham Asylum) still run for $20 on their download service.

RE: Good
By TakinYourPoints on 2/6/2013 8:47:46 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Consoles are moving to what has been on the PC for years.

It is idiotic to cry about consoles being restrictive by potentially killing used game sales, and then looking to the even more restrictive digital distribution platforms on the PC to be your savior. You're dealing with restrictions on what you can do with your games in both cases.

RE: Good
By 91TTZ on 2/7/2013 10:20:57 AM , Rating: 2
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the allure of Steam is that it lets you buy a game for a greatly reduced price in exchange for not being able to resell it. I heard of people buying an older game for $10 instead of $40. Microsoft is trying to introduce a service where you get the tradeoff of not being able to resell the game without getting the benefit of the greatly reduced price.

RE: Good
By TakinYourPoints on 2/7/2013 5:46:27 PM , Rating: 1
We'll see how it works out. Console games right now drop in price pretty quickly, although it can take the more popular ones a while to hit the ~$10 range that Steam can offer during their holiday sales. Just wait a month or two and you save $20. Wait a year and you'll save over half.

Nintendo is the one exception, their games hold value for very long.

Right now Assassin's Creed 3 and Halo 4 are both $40 on Amazon. Halo 4 obviously isn't on PC, but AC3 is $50 on Steam. Far Cry 3 on the other hand costs the same on both platforms, $50.

It really depends. The other thing to keep in mind is that used game sales are usually not much lower than new, $5 or so. The benefit isn't in the buying, its in the selling.

I agree with you though, how acceptable locking down game licenses is depends on how cheaply games can be bought for. Steam style sales will help their "karma" a great deal, and it'll also sell copies to people who otherwise wouldn't buy a game when it is new.

RE: Good
By StanO360 on 2/6/2013 4:24:15 PM , Rating: 2
While I agree with you, Sony will do the same. The problem is this lowers the value of the product. So while they may sell more games per unit (which MS has mastered already) they will surely sell fewer units.

Used games were definitely a consideration in our purchase of a 360, but we still have bought our fair share of new.

RE: Good
By TakinYourPoints on 2/6/2013 5:56:14 PM , Rating: 2
I've been mainly a PC gamer for forever. Used game sales don't factor in though, we've had even greater restrictions by services like Steam or Battlenet for years.

No chance at all of selling your game licenses, period. You can't even sell your account, that's against the EULA. A few services like GOG or Humble Bundle don't have DRM, but reselling those downloads is against the law.

In any case, killing used game sales is just one more place where consoles are catching up with the PC. Going back to the PC with its more restrictive policies because the consoles might go down that same road seems weird to me. Base that decision on something else.

RE: Good
By TakinYourPoints on 2/6/2013 5:59:43 PM , Rating: 1
The one important difference with Steam though are their periodic sales. A lot of my game collection comes from those sales. It is a big way to offset Steam's restrictive DRM.

You're locked and you can't resell anything but at least its cheap.

Perhaps Microsoft will do something similar. It kind of happens already with most console games, wait two or three months and they're a half or a third of their original retail price. The only games that regularly keep their value are Nintendo's.

RE: Good
By augiem on 2/6/2013 6:35:38 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is, many of the cheap games on Steam are really being funded by the people who purchase them at full price. And many of them are console ports. Consoles both have a larger user-base and the games cost more even when they're older, so that's accounts for a lot of the company's revenue. If the early adopters and console sales were to be taken out of the equation, selling the games for those prices on Steam would mean the developers go out of business. So, currently Steam is a GREAT deal, but it's only part of a larger eco system that enables it to be such. The market could not support it if games were to become that cheap all around, unless of course 1) the number of users grows in proportion to match the price reduction or 2) companies implement alternative methods for revenue (micro transactions, merchandising, whatever) or 3) the cost of development drops drastically.

RE: Good
By TakinYourPoints on 2/6/2013 7:48:45 PM , Rating: 1
Certainly. I was only going into how things are, not why they are the way things are.

One other thing to note though is that usage/buying metrics tied into specific user accounts provides a really good way to maximize income.

Let's use Portal 2 for example. There is a large number of people that will buy the game for $50 at release. That number starts big and peters out over time. Once they've used up the $50 price point for all its worth, they drop it to $30, then $20. On top of that they do holiday sales where they might sell it for $6. In all those cases, they're maximizing income from people who want to play it earlier and then they secure sales from people who won't spend over a certain amount for whatever reason. They cover the full spectrum of buyers.

Whether or not this trains people to wait for games to get cheaper is another discussion. It could be, I dunno. If I really want a game (Portal 2, Starcraft 2) then I'll buy brand new, otherwise I'm ok waiting (maybe I'll get Far Cry 3 for $15, etc).

Its honestly similar to how b&m retailers do things, just much much faster and more reactive. Its also clearly very profitable. If Microsoft is smart then they'll do something close to what Steam is with pricing. It would take some of the sting out of restricting used game sales.

And many of them are console ports. Consoles both have a larger user-base and the games cost more even when they're older

Nintendo is the exception to this rule, their games hold value for ages. Otherwise buying new console games is pretty affordable after only a few months. They drop in price very quickly. Even blockbusters like Assassin's Creed 3 and Halo 4 are $40 new from Amazon. AC3 is still $50 on Steam. Moderately popular games like Sleeping Dogs costs $40 both for console and for Steam.

RE: Good
By Hairyfeet on 2/6/2013 10:32:38 PM , Rating: 2
Ironically myself and all my PC playing buds never pay full retail, the only ones we know that do are the consolers and they are taking trade in into account to offset some of the cost of the game.

Personally I think if MSFT and Sony do this all they will do is hasten the death of the $60 price point, that's all. I mean even if you got rid of the Steam sales (where I get most of my games) tomorrow there have been just so many triple A titles in the past 7 years that even if I bought a game a day from the cheap bin I'd never ever play them all in just the genres (RTS, RPG and FPS) that I enjoy, so why would I ever pay full price?

The simple fact is we consumers are just swimming in cheap entertainment choices right now so its gonna get harder and harder to justify that $60 price point. I mean we PC gamers have had incredible looking games since Far Cry 1 in what? 2004? Then there is all the cheap mobile games, the FTP MMOs and shooters, movies, music, we got entertainment coming out our behinds folks!

I honestly think both MSFT and Sony are living in a little bubble where they are looking at a PPT slide made by a PHB saying "If we just get rid of used games every one of those would be a $60 sale!" when IRL a LOT of those consoles sales are made partially on the back of trade ins. When they wipe that out I have a feeling we're gonna see another game crash like we did in 84, where a lot of publishers spend too much on big name titles only to find the sales just aren't there. Should be interesting to see what happens, I'm betting a mix of episodic gaming with DLCs and expansion packs making $30 or even $20 the new price point myself.

RE: Good
By TakinYourPoints on 2/7/2013 12:14:40 AM , Rating: 1
The only AAA games I buy brand new are ones by Valve and Steam. Some indies too, games like FTL, but otherwise I'll wait until the price drops.

RE: Good
By TakinYourPoints on 2/7/2013 12:27:58 AM , Rating: 1
Whoops, it should read "ones by Valve and Blizzard "

RE: Good
By HostileEffect on 2/6/2013 10:57:52 PM , Rating: 2
I guess I can scratch the Xbox720 off my potential buys list like the Xbox360 and RRoD.

I may get a PS3 if I come across one for cheap, I hear it can run custom firmware.

RE: Good
By WinstonSmith on 2/7/2013 9:55:02 AM , Rating: 2
"this effort to kill used games seals the deal for me"

Initially, Steam was touted as being necessary due to PC game piracy. But it also had the "convenient" side effect of killing the ability to play used PC games that required Steam to install, something that rapidly became virtually all of them. That ended any further PC gaming updates for me since I refused to put up with that crap.

Now, the same low is about to be reached with consoles. Greedy bastards...

RE: Good
By lexluthermiester on 2/8/2013 5:25:25 AM , Rating: 2
Ah, but some of us skipped the 360 after too many defective systems and not enough ACTUAL good games. And with my PS3 recently YLOD, I'm not to fond of Sony either right now. I'm with you on the PC side of things[effing Windows 8 not withstanding], but ruling out Nintendo[WiiU rocks IMHO] and Sony's PS4 would be shear folly.

Microsoft started going too far when they started the "Activation" nonsense. And it's just been downhill since then. But then we are talking about a company who's left hand very often doesn't know where it's right is, let alone what it's doing. On that note, I say this. Ballmer is nit-wit that needs to be removed. Get rid of Ballmer and replace him with a someone who understands things a little better[IE has a decent grip on common sense and reality], can confidently stand up to shareholders and things might turn around for MS.... Maybe....

RE: Good
By djkrypplephite on 2/9/2013 10:36:40 PM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty sure it was Sony that patented the idea to mark discs so they couldn't be used on other consoles. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they did something similar too, just to be fair.

RE: Good
By crispbp04 on 2/12/2013 1:12:20 PM , Rating: 2
this is still listed under speculation; wouldn't you agree?

By Motoman on 2/6/2013 12:05:00 PM , Rating: 2
...that spells essentially a death sentence to second-hand or used games.

...I don't think that spells a death sentence for second-hand games. I think it spells a death sentence for the new XBox...and probably lawsuits galore. I can see an immediate class-action lawsuit being brought the second that console hits the market...and I can easily see MS losing that battle in court.

I don't think you can ban someone from reselling and reusing something. Like movies, CDs, etc. Or video games. If you could, the Media Mafia would have killed all such things decades ago.

RE: No...
By tayb on 2/6/2013 12:10:29 PM , Rating: 4
I don't think you can ban someone from reselling and reusing something. Like movies, CDs, etc. Or video games. If you could, the Media Mafia would have killed all such things decades ago.

Except that it won't be illegal to sell your used games. The used games will just be worthless. Lawsuits? For what? The only recourse consumers have is to refuse to buy the console. That's what I will do and I'll encourage everyone I know to do the same, even if that means gaming on the Wii.

RE: No...
By Motoman on 2/6/13, Rating: -1
RE: No...
By tayb on 2/6/2013 1:06:43 PM , Rating: 3
How exactly does this interfere with your "right" to sell games? No one is going to arrest you or fine you for posting your used game collection on craigslist...

RE: No...
By Motoman on 2/6/2013 1:10:25 PM , Rating: 1
...right. When the used game can't actually be used by the new owner, the right-to-resell systems that's spelled out in the law has been intentionally disrupted by MS.

Can you resell the game? Sure. But if the new owner can't use it, then there quickly will be no resale market...the original owner will be effectively refused the right of resale that the law gives them.

RE: No...
By tayb on 2/6/2013 2:08:59 PM , Rating: 1
Your complaining that the used game has far less value. That's true but it still doesn't prevent you from selling it.

This is hardly different in practice from attempting to sell an old version of Madden. No one will want it. Will you sue EA for devaluing older versions of its game thereby killing the resale market?

Annoying? Sure. Anti-consumer? Sure. Illegal? No way.

Too many people complain to the courts when in reality the market should just properly react by NOT buying the system and/or the games. Don't buy the Microsoft console. If enough people follow suit Microsoft will either adapt or exit the console market.

RE: No...
By kyuuketsuki on 2/6/2013 2:58:18 PM , Rating: 1
I hope you're just trolling, because your logic is absolutely retarded.

Let's see... If Ford started installing a system in their cars that prevented anyone but the original owner from starting the car, that'd be legal, right? I mean, you could still sell the car if you wanted. No one will want it since its unusable, thereby eliminating a secondhand market, but totally not infringing on the legal right to resell property. Except no, that's bullshit. Luckily, even the most inept judge would have to have a firm enough grasp of the law and logic not to buy that load of crap.

This has nothing to do with developers getting fairly recompensed for their work (the publisher gets all the money anyway). This is a blatantly anti-consumer, pad-the-bottom-line scheme. For digital goods, it's a gray area what with the licensing, but for anything involving a physical good, even software on a physical disc, it's definitely illegal to prevent resell.

This probably won't happen even if it's an accurate rumor, for the same reason it hasn't happened before: the legal department will tell management that there's no way in hell it's gonna fly.

If it does happen, I quite sure people will be pissed, sales will be poor, and lawsuits will fly. And Microsoft will deserve it.

RE: No...
By eagle470 on 2/6/13, Rating: 0
RE: No...
By tng on 2/6/2013 3:48:05 PM , Rating: 2
Game developers don't make money anywhere at any other stage then the initial purchase.
What you are talking about is this...

Guy buys Ford pickup, which means that $ go to Ford Corporate, not directly back into the pockets of the assembly line workers. Guy buys Ford parts, again same thing, assembly line workers don't get a percentage of the royalties on the purchase price.

Game developers I assume don't work for free, if they do then they are stupid. They get a salary and that is that, they don't own the right to the code that they write while employed.

Neither does Ford get a cut of the price if the guy sells his pickup and again if they did the guy on the factory floor would see none of it.

RE: No...
By Hairyfeet on 2/6/2013 10:47:16 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention that unlike Ford its trivial for the game makers to continue making money after the sale, simply by making DLC. I bought plenty of stupid outfits and vehicles for Saints Row 3 and I waited to get Borderlands until I could buy it with all the DLC, did I NEED a Genki Mobile or the Claptrap Robolution? Nope but after trying both games I liked them and wanted to have even crazier rides in SR 3 and I knew I liked the story enough in Borderlands I wanted it to continue.

So this entire argument makes even less sense because unlike Ford who would have a problem trying to sell me fuzzy dice for my Ranger (GREAT small truck BTW, a shame they quit making 'em) it really isn't hard for a developer to make cool little things to keep me giving them money. Heck they could even make money off their older titles this way, as how many of us wouldn't like more places to go in Bioshock I & II? Cool new weapons for the Far Cry and Crysis series? More cool tanks and troops in Company of Heroes? Plenty of ways to make money after the sale WITHOUT shafting used game sales. A smart game dev should look forward to used game sales, as that gives one more person to sell cool DLC to.

RE: No...
By FiveTenths on 2/6/2013 4:17:56 PM , Rating: 2
The comparison makes perfect sense, your take on it is nonsense

Ford Corporate develops/manufactures the car. The dealer (retailer) buys the car; this is the only point that Ford Corporate makes money. If I sell my used car Ford doesn't see a dime, if a dealer sells a used car Ford Corporate does not see a dime, this is exactly the same situation as selling a used game.

The rest of your argument is absurd, not every car is repaired or maintained with OEM parts and wtf does merchandising have to do with buying a new car.

RE: No...
By wempa on 2/6/2013 4:34:56 PM , Rating: 2
^^^ what he said

RE: No...
By croc on 2/7/2013 4:41:37 AM , Rating: 2
If the game being sold cannot be used except through an illegal act, then by selling that game you are guilty of enticing the buyer to violate the law. THAT is a crime. A FEDERAL crime, as the violation will be one of the DMCA variety. So, yeah - you can sell it. You can also sell someone a stolen watch, you'll probably get more cash and less prison time. Stick with the watch.

RE: No...
By 91TTZ on 2/7/2013 10:41:47 AM , Rating: 2
Your complaining that the used game has far less value. That's true but it still doesn't prevent you from selling it. This is hardly different in practice from attempting to sell an old version of Madden. No one will want it. Will you sue EA for devaluing older versions of its game thereby killing the resale market?

No, he's not complaining that the game has less value because it's old. He's complaining because the used game will not be able to be played at all. They are effectively subverting the law that says you have the right to resell a used product. They're making it so the used product has zero value (since you can't possibly use it) and therefore they're trying to get around the law.

This would be the same as if GM made a law that blocked you from registering a used car. Sure, you could still sell your used Camaro, but the new owner wouldn't be able to drive it. It would therefore have almost no value.

You need to look at a law as having an overall meaning. Just because a manufacturer has found a workaround to subvert a law doesn't mean that they aren't still acting against the spirit of the law. They might be able to get away with it for a while but eventually that loophole will be closed.

RE: No...
By bug77 on 2/6/2013 1:25:18 PM , Rating: 2
How naive to think you're actually buying something. You're not, you're renting the game. You're buying the license to use Microsoft/developer's property - at most.
And this will spread to PCs, too, all it takes is steam flipping a switch.

RE: No...
By messele on 2/6/13, Rating: -1
RE: No...
By tng on 2/6/2013 6:27:44 PM , Rating: 1
quote: EXPECT people to make great software and not want to give them a fair financial compensation for the privilege of enjoying it.

That is just it, what is "Fair" compensation?

Yes the really good games for the 360 are pretty well done, but the initial purchase price new here in the US about $60. Most see that price as pretty high, especially since sometimes there is no way to really see if the game is to your liking or not.

As far as used games are concerned, there are allot of 360 games that I would have never gotten to play if a scheme like this was already in place. By the time I got my console, it had been out for a number of years, most of the older titles that I wanted to play were just not available new and some were hard to find used.

You are correct, the $10 I spent on Halo 3 is down to pennies on the hour if you look at the amount of time that I have spent playing it. Quite a few of my games are.

RE: No...
By Bonesdad on 2/6/2013 8:50:50 PM , Rating: 2
If that's the case, why didn't MS charge a "fair" price to begin with? Say $150/game? They sell it at a price the market can bear and that will make a profit. Their story ends there...

My purchase of their system has also ended, and that too, is "fair".

RE: No...
By messele on 2/7/13, Rating: 0
RE: No...
By augiem on 2/7/2013 4:50:29 AM , Rating: 1
You'd have to be a serious skinflint to EXPECT people to make great software and not want to give them a fair financial compensation for the privilege of enjoying it.

Just love it. ANY post defending the developers right to make profit (or even pay for costs!) is downrated to hell. Happens EVERY time to me in every thread on every messageboard on the internet.

RE: No...
By messele on 2/7/2013 11:39:58 AM , Rating: 1
There is something seriously wrong with people's attitudes to others making a living these days.

Everything on Google is free, therefore everything is expected to be fantastic but cost nothing.

To my mind the fact that such observations are downvoted just serves to prove that such attitudes are rife. Bunch of cocks.

RE: No...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/7/2013 1:02:01 PM , Rating: 2
How do we want "something for free" if we expect used games we BOUGHT to play in a console?

You just refuse to get that and instead categorize everyone as pirates. I'm so done with your stupid ass on this. Honestly fuck off.

You know what, you're right! We're all evil for wanting to save a few bucks. So lets just ban all thrift stores -sorry Goodwill fuck you!, all online retailers (because paying less is evil), close the Wal-Mart's and Sams and BJ's etc etc. Oh and ban all cars less than $100,000 from being purchased. Close down all fast food and local eateries, ONLY 5 star restaurants can serve food from now on!!

In fact fuck it messele! Give me your address, I'll just send you my goddamn wallet and transfer my bank account, stocks, and 401-k to you too! I don't need it. Some poor "developer" out there needs it more than me!

Seriously fuck you and shut up.

RE: No...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/7/2013 1:07:59 PM , Rating: 1
Oh and what about garage sales!!?? Pure selfishness and evil going on in those! People reselling stuff!!!! THE HORROR!!!!

Tommy Hilfiger is homeless cause Betty from Seattle found some jeans for $3 at a swap meet!! Damn you Betty!! GODDAMN you, you cheap fucking whore!!!!!!!!!!

RE: No...
By Motoman on 2/7/2013 12:55:31 PM , Rating: 2
No one's saying the developers don't have a right to make a profit.

What people are upset about is the notion that they won't be able to resell/trade/gift the product they bought later.

Many above examples are perfectly accurate...what if the same thing was true for cars, clothes, or anything else you buy?

The notion of banning the resale of purchased video games (or later, movies and music too - just watch) is simply abusive to the consumer. Period. There's no other way to characterize it.

RE: No...
By Vertigo2000 on 2/7/2013 1:42:15 PM , Rating: 1
I support this situation wholeheartedly. Most software (including games) has always been sold on a licensing basis, its right there in the contract of use if you care to actually read it.
Problem with that is that you can't read it until after you've bought it. Especially with buying a physical package off a physical shelf. When you get it home, you open the packing and install the disc. Then the EULA pops up. If you disagree with the EULA, you can't return it to the store because they don't accept returns on opened software.
I should go to Wal-Mart and buy 1 copy of every single game they have for the PS3 and Xbox 360. Then come back the next day demanding a refund because I don't agree with the EULAs. Who's with me?
Another problem could be the age of the consumer. I'm not an expert, so someone correct me if I'm totally off base, but children under the age of 18 cannot enter into a legal contract. Yes? No?
And on top of that, pay more attention to your TV commercials. When that WOW Mists of Panderia or whatever it was called came out, right at the very end, the voice over says "Own it today." Not "License it today." Their own advertisements imply I own it if I buy it.

RE: No...
By lexluthermiester on 2/8/2013 5:48:58 AM , Rating: 2
even if that means gaming on the Wii.

Seriously with that statement? Do some homework. And FYI, from the perspective of the law[in the US at least], a first party may not lawfully deny access to something a third party has lawfully purchased. Nor can a first party limit the use and sale of such a thing. There is MORE than enough case-law to support such a point, and a class action against MS if they try this. I predict they will loose, badly. You can not tell someone what they can and can not do with their own property within the realm of their own personal use. And before anyone chimes in, the rights of use and ownership by a citizen trump the rights of the copyright holder, at ALL times.

Of course, I'm with you on the "not making the purchase to start with" point. The only money MS has made from me in the last 10 years was a copy of Halo and Halo 2 for PC I bought new at Best Buy. ALL of my copies of Windows have been bought used, or has been given to me by MS reps. My first Xbox and all of it's games? Used. I did buy a 360 new, but it RROD'd within a week and was exchanged for a new one which promptly did the same, which was then returned for a refund. I'll be skipping the new Xbox altogether, just like Windows 8.

RE: No...
By bah12 on 2/6/2013 12:35:32 PM , Rating: 2
Won't need to be a class action, Gamefly will sue the sh!t out of them, and rightfully so. IMHO that is the main target here, not piracy or sharing, but Gamefly specifically.

RE: No...
By Motoman on 2/6/2013 12:48:57 PM , Rating: 3
Well, and beyond Gamefly and video games, you have to consider the precedent this sets.

If MS can get away with a "one-consumer-then-trash" model for video games, then the same thing will happen to movies, music, maybe other stuff too. There will be no trading/reselling/gifting of DVDs or BDs, CDs, etc. Because if MS can do this with an XBox game, you can bet Sony/Paramount/Disney/et al will do it with all their other content too.

RE: No...
By bah12 on 2/6/2013 1:07:30 PM , Rating: 2
Amen to that. I'm sure someone at Sony was immediately meeting with the PS4 group to see if they could do the same thing. Its the holy grail for media giants.

This is frankly quite scary, one more step to not actually owning anything.

RE: No...
By Hairyfeet on 2/6/2013 11:03:03 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I don't see the courts going along with this, especially in the light of how much stuff now runs on computer chips and software. i mean where would it end? you can no longer sell your old laptop because the OS license is tied to you?

Not to mention this entire "license" argument ignores the fact that these companies are trying to have their cake and eat it to. So you say I have a LICENSE to play halo 3, not a physical product? Okay then its perfectly legal for me to download a replacement when something happens to the disc, right? After all I DO have a license to this title correct?

You see THIS is where its gonna end up biting these companies in the behind, as they are trying to have all the protections of BOTH the license model AND the physical product model while claiming they have the liabilities of neither. Courts tend not to like vagueness like that and I don't think they'll like the outcome if they make the courts decide which they fall under. Either all their products are physical, which means you can buy, sell, and trade them at will, or they are all licenses which means if you bought it once you have the right to it forever, no matter what happens to the media.

RE: No...
By prabal34 on 2/6/13, Rating: 0
Good news for Ouya and the Steam Box?
By Hakuryu on 2/6/2013 12:02:35 PM , Rating: 2
While MS and Sony continue to tighten console restrictions, could this be a good thing for Ouya and the Steam Box?

If they stop used sales, and link a game to an account, then renting (like Gamefly) is also gone in addition to lending games to friends. Console users will be left with $49-$69 dollar games, and the occasional $19-29 million seller versions that come out years after release.

Now imagine a Steam Box with regular sales... I doubt MS or Sony would apply a Steam-like sale mechanic.

By Motoman on 2/6/2013 12:06:48 PM , Rating: 5
The tighter the clench their fist, the more (console) systems will slip through their fingers.

RE: Good news for Ouya and the Steam Box?
By Flunk on 2/6/2013 12:19:50 PM , Rating: 2
Why would you think that? This is basically Steam's working model right there. Can't buy used or share just like Steam.

I suspect prices on consoles will come down to be competitive.

By NellyFromMA on 2/6/2013 12:22:48 PM , Rating: 2
Bonus points for awareness and insight

By geddarkstorm on 2/6/2013 12:35:31 PM , Rating: 2
You know, it'd be interesting if they could do a leasing model like e-books have: where you could "rent" out your game to your friend for a period of time; locking it in your library but opening it in their account's.

I'm sure people would put that to a lot of use (many times I wish I could have done that to share with friends in the past). Hopefully Steam has been thinking about that already, as it shouldn't be hard for them to implement, but would greatly increase the quality of their service.

RE: Good news for Ouya and the Steam Box?
By Mr Perfect on 2/6/2013 12:34:46 PM , Rating: 2
True, this sounds like a page from Steam's book. However, I'm guessing that a large part of the reason why people put up with Steam's no-resale policy is because the games are cheap to begin with. I grabbed Portal 2 for less then $10 on sale, so what's the point in reselling it? Everyone else can buy it for that price too if they're patient, so it doesn't really have a resale value to begin with.

If Xbox games continue to be $60+ and have no resale, things will be different.

RE: Good news for Ouya and the Steam Box?
By x10Unit1 on 2/6/2013 1:26:11 PM , Rating: 2
Steam converted me to being a full time PC gamer because of just that. Unless it is an absolutely must have game, all of my steam games purchased are holiday sales or from the various bundles that have been release over the past year.

By Hairyfeet on 2/6/2013 11:10:01 PM , Rating: 2
You aren't the only one, i used to buy only a few titles a year until I got Steam 2 years ago (ironically they got me as a customer by giving Portal 1 for free) and the Steam sales plus the truly insane ease of backup (just drag your Steam folder to a USB drive and if your OS ever needs re-install you can have your entire collection back in minutes) had me completely hooked.

But if I were buying at $60 or even $40 a pop you can bet I would care about the right of resale, but when I get something like the Deus Ex series WITH all the DLC for $15? Or the Crysis series for $17 with the expansions? Meh I honestly don't care.

By TakinYourPoints on 2/6/2013 8:58:08 PM , Rating: 2
Steam sales are the main reason lots of people put up with it.

I always valued the convenience it gave me (no keeping track of media, no CD keys, cloud backups, fast unlimited downloads), same with the iOS App Store or the even more restrictive Amazon Kindle ecosystem (trading flexibility for awesome e-reader hardware).

Not being able to sell things back is a tradeoff for the level of service and convenience you get in return, so there's definitely advantages for the customer there. Price was secondary to me but its a great bonus when they started doing it a few years ago.

And you're right, lower prices with periodic sales or rapid discounting (which also happens with XBox games) will also help make more restrictive policies on the XBox easier to swallow.

By TakinYourPoints on 2/7/2013 4:18:07 AM , Rating: 2

Steam is an excellent service, it along with Blizzard kept the PC viable as a gaming platform, but let's be honest about how restrictive it is as DRM.

It can only run on one computer at a time and you cannot sell or trade your game once it has been purchased and tied to an account. Steam accounts that have been sold to other people have actually been banned.

Microsoft is merely playing catch-up with what we've had on PC for years in terms of license restrictions.

Being outraged at MS for doing this is understandable, but someone saying that they'll run back to the PC to be free of their proposed restrictions when we've had much worse ones on the PC for years is beyond ignorant.

The Xbox 720 and PS4 will have....
By Apone on 2/6/13, Rating: 0
RE: The Xbox 720 and PS4 will have....
By nikon133 on 2/6/2013 3:41:00 PM , Rating: 2
Considering that all PC games that I am aware of still run on 4GB and consoles' OS is expected to have smaller footprint, I don't think that 8GB will be limitation any time soon, very likely not before that generation of consoles expires anyway.

Honestly, that is 32x more RAM than PS3 has right now, and look at how great some PS3 games are. Having to deal with only one hardware configuration surely gives developers opportunity to finely optimize resource use through textures streaming and other methods.

I'm more worried about what graphics are going to run in PS4/X720. While developers did show capability to get more from PS3 graphics than anything I have seen on PC back in Nvidia 7800 days, for the expected lifetime of console, GPU is surely going to age fastest.

By Hairyfeet on 2/6/2013 11:18:31 PM , Rating: 2
The limitation is gonna be on the CPU, and this is coming from a die hard AMD guy who is typing this on a Thuban X6.

But if you look at the reviews the jaguar "octo" core (which like the bulldozer is based on a lot of internal sharing so I'd say its more like hardware hyperthreaded quad than an octo) its designed not to be in the liano or Piledriver lines but the successor to the BOBCAT APU which for those that don't know was AMD's answer to the ATOM chip by Intel.

As someone who has a Bobcat netbook which I love I can tell you while they are great on battery life and multimedia playing they are NOT good at heavy lifting so its gonna be interesting to see how they do the heavy CPU slamming physics with a chip designed for netbooks and tablets. maybe a physics dedicated chip?

But I don't think the graphics are gonna be something to worry about, rumors have it that the PS4 is gonna have a Jaguar with a mid tier 7xxx chip, this is actually a nice chip and with a low footprint console OS should have plenty of muscle, as always with APUs the tricky part is gonna be shared memory.

RE: The Xbox 720 and PS4 will have....
By Makaveli on 2/6/2013 5:16:54 PM , Rating: 2
This is a gaming console it doesn't have to run a Windows OS.

Its going to be far more streamlined and optimized.

Stop thinking bigger is cooler and look at the rest of the facts like a real adult.

RE: The Xbox 720 and PS4 will have....
By Hairyfeet on 2/6/2013 11:29:14 PM , Rating: 2
While this is true all the "steamlining" in the world can't make a Pinto into a Porsche. With the Jaguar we are talking about an update to the BOBCAT core, this is the low end APU used for low power netbooks and tablets NOT a full fledged APU like Trinity.

It will be interesting to see how the CPU instensive tasks like physics will be handled by a netbook chip, but you can't pretend this is equal to even a mid tier AMD APU because it isn't, the Bobcat arch was designed for competing with Atom and NOT for heavy lifting.

By Vertigo2000 on 2/7/2013 1:54:50 PM , Rating: 2
It also doesn't have to really worry about any resolution beyond 1920x1080. Pretty standard res for the next 5 yrs (or the life of the console).

Not the whole story....
By RGrizzzz on 2/6/2013 11:53:19 AM , Rating: 2
Somehow I don't think this is the full story. This will surely piss off consumers. I'm betting there will be a way to transfer games for a nominal fee, and maybe share them for a brief time period as well.

RE: Not the whole story....
By RufusM on 2/6/2013 5:53:00 PM , Rating: 2
They might to this to satiate complaints in the short term, but you know the log term game is for everyone to buy a copy; no borrowing, no rentals and no resale.

RE: Not the whole story....
By Vertigo2000 on 2/7/2013 1:56:38 PM , Rating: 2
Even charging "a nominal fee" is unacceptable.

By whickywhickyjim on 2/6/2013 2:10:26 PM , Rating: 2
Sure, they can do this, but if they think people are going to continue to pay $50-$60 for new games that can no longer be resold or transferred, they're going to find out the hard way that they are mistaken.

RE: Price
By rdhood on 2/6/2013 2:51:06 PM , Rating: 2
Sure, they can do this, but if they think people are going to continue to pay $50-$60 for new games that can no longer be resold or transferred, they're going to find out the hard way that they are mistaken.

To take this a step further... PARENTS are not going to be purchasing as many games for their kids. I am really not sure what M$ is thinking here. Maybe they believe parents will shell out full price for whatever little Johnny wants?

RE: Price
By eagle470 on 2/6/2013 3:03:29 PM , Rating: 2
I bet they will. Have you see all the 5 year-olds in Abercrombie clothes and carrying brand new iPhone 5's?

By Visual on 2/7/2013 5:36:18 AM , Rating: 2
Banner hammer? Really? Where did you come up with that phrase?

RE: Banner?
By TakinYourPoints on 2/7/2013 5:55:58 PM , Rating: 2

RE: Banner?
By Visual on 2/8/2013 7:17:46 AM , Rating: 2
No, the standard is banhammer.

No Problem
By spread on 2/6/2013 4:12:57 PM , Rating: 2
I'll get a Xbox or a PS4 when the jailbreak is out. Microsoft might not care for me as a customer but pirates care.

So far I bought console games (some used) because the experience is easy and convenient. If they begin to hassle me and treat me like a criminal because I give them my hard earned money, I'll download games off The Pirate Bay and they won't see a cent from me.

RE: No Problem
By wempa on 2/6/2013 4:25:10 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. This would be an absolutely awful decision. It was bad enough when EA was talking about penalizing used game buyers by making them pay extra for certain online features (Did they ever go through with this ?). If this rumor becomes a reality, it will truly stomp all over the consumers' rights. I certainly won't stand for it. I used to be a loyal Blizzard fan, but I didn't buy Diablo 3 when I found out that I couldn't play it offline. I don't see how people could be OK with this. If they go through with this, I seriously hope that a lot of people boycott them.

By datdamonfoo on 2/6/2013 11:59:42 AM , Rating: 3
I remember reading the same FUD about PS4 (or was it even PS3?) in the last year or two. This stuff never seems to come to fruition.

By Arsynic on 2/6/2013 4:37:59 PM , Rating: 1
MS is just doing the bidding of the publishers. I don't have a problem with this as long as the publishers bump game prices back down to $40-$50 or reduce the prices of the their games much quicker than before.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me because I don't like purchasing used games and I don't buy games at full price except at a console's launch. Don't hate on Microsoft, they are only enforcing a policy that their publishers want. And guess what, publishers are Microsoft's customers too.

But again, publishers have to make a gesture of good will towards gamers by bumping game prices down by $10. What's ironic is the same people who are bitching about this probably are big MMO players.

By wallijonn on 2/8/2013 11:57:25 AM , Rating: 2
publishers have to make a gesture of good will towards gamers by bumping game prices down by $10.

Do you really think that WalMart, Target, Costco, Fry Electronics, Best Buy, Sears, etc. & et. al., pay full price to stock their shelves?How is it that a $60 game can be sold for $10 a year later? If it's new stock how much did the store pay for it wholesale?

By going to direct streaming the middle man is cut out. Therefore even $30 is unacceptable since there is no physical media and there is no wholesale mark down. Nope, it's going to have to come down to the price of a first run movie rental, about $5.

First it was piracy...
By shabby on 2/6/2013 5:04:38 PM , Rating: 3
Now the blame is on legit customers? Lol

By tayb on 2/6/2013 12:06:46 PM , Rating: 2
I bought the original Xbox, beta tested Xbox Live before it launched, pre-ordered an Xbox 360, and stuck by MS through their pathetic RROD issues. I won't stand for this though. I'll either switch back to Sony, enjoy casual gaming on the Wii, or go 100% PC. I won't tolerate having to be online 100% of the time and the inability to buy used games.

Trading with friends =(
By nerdye on 2/6/2013 12:11:06 PM , Rating: 2
I don't buy every brand new game, but I buy a lot of them. I like trading off with my friend, I buy halo 4, you buy black ops 2, I buy far cry 3, you buy the new hitman. Play the games, trade, everybody wins, or used to win...

Not only that, but I likely will be buying a lot less games this way. How many people own games they bought used for 15 or 20 bucks they never would have bought for 60 bucks? A ton! So a lot of companies never saw my money, and never will! Now all those copies of Madden 2007 can go directly into a ditch in Africa! Awesome!

Bad idea however
By Ammohunt on 2/6/2013 1:36:52 PM , Rating: 2
If a scheme like this lead to reducing the price of the game to say $35 a copy then i could see it being successful.

By Arsynic on 2/6/2013 4:29:16 PM , Rating: 2
Any article that refers to MS next console as "Xbox 720" isn't a serious article.

Leave luck to heaven
By JeBarr on 2/6/2013 5:39:57 PM , Rating: 2
If these rumors turn out to be true, then I would expect to see a major shift back to PC + Nintendo gaming.

For 30 years now I've been gaming only on PC and Nintendo platforms while having played PS/Xbox games on occasion with friends who are, shall I say, less-informed and highly susceptible to marketing hype/popularity trends.

I can only hope that these rumors are not true though. I rather like the idea of having three main competitors to keep hardware/software prices in check. A distribution model that hinders the end user is a failure automatically, UNLESS the model is "user friendly" such as Steam.

Even though I rarely purchase used games, there are occasions where a game has sold-out and the only option is to purchase second-hand. Digital distribution has assisted greatly in that least for me personally. No matter though, I still prefer to have a physical copy and loathe the idea that one day I may have to recycle instead of re-distribute. Whether for monetary gain or donation should not matter.

If I donate my old game to little Timmy and he can't play it because the money grubbing, foot shooting, hype spewing executives in a suit want to buy a new Ferrari for their 16 year old girlfriend-on-the-side, then something is seriously wrong.

Lucky for me, thanks to heaven, I don't have to put up with it and let my wallet do the work for me. At least for now.

By strapmonkey on 2/6/2013 8:26:45 PM , Rating: 2
....but, essentially this would mean that if your console takes a dump (not that that's likely to happen, I mean it IS Microsoft, after all, right?), you are SOL. Since the game is tied to a given console, your extensive library of $60 games you've accrued just went kaput, as well. MS are shooting themselves in the foot with this. I won't buy a 720 if this turns out to be true.

I just wanted to say
By Hairyfeet on 2/6/2013 10:18:48 PM , Rating: 2
That I think many are looking at this the wrong way. I have been a PC gamer for over a decade but when i joined Steam 2 years ago (Thanks to them giving Portal 1 away for free) I honestly didn't buy very many games a year. Now thanks to the Steam sales those developers have gotten a good $400 out of me in both sales to myself and gifts to family that I WOULD NOT HAVE SPENT.

So honestly its not about "Oh devs will lose money from cheap games" because frankly a vast majority of games I have if they would have stayed at $60 or even $40? I wouldn't have bought at all, so they wouldn't have gotten a cent from me.

But if they think they can put these restrictions up and still get $60 a game boy are they gonna be in for a shock. i know several console gamers and they take trade in into effect when they buy a new game, no trade in? that's a LOT of new games that like me they'll simply pass up.

I don't get it
By Strunf on 2/7/2013 8:04:45 AM , Rating: 2
I don't even get why MS or anyone else for that matter is doing such a thing, the people who buy the games and resell usually buy more games with the money they get, the people who buy second hand games probably buy them cause they can't really afford the news ones or just to get more for the same price, so with this the people who buy new games will buy less and the ones who buy 2nd hand will not buy any or buy hardly ever.
At the end of the day I'm not sure MS will even get more money by locking their costumers quite the contrary since people may actually buy less games or not at all.

As usual the pirates are the ones who don't care nor are really affected by these issues, the guy that actually buys the game always gets punished for nothing.

Soon it'll be pay to play
By 91TTZ on 2/7/2013 10:47:29 AM , Rating: 2
In an effort to maximize profit, manufacturers and developers are constantly trying to squeeze customers more and more. How long will it be until you must pay each time you want to play a game? I can see them re-marketing the idea of playing games as a "gameplay experience", with you needing to pay for each individual experience.

It'll be like the arcades all over again, only you had to buy the system. At the rate things are going, it'll only be a matter of time before you need to pay to log onto the game server each time you want to play a game, with no way around it since all games will require an internet connection.

Please, no product keys!!!
By enlil242 on 2/7/2013 10:53:38 AM , Rating: 2
Ok, I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, most of the games I buy are second-hand games. So this really sucks. However, I recently purchased NHL13 and had to input a product key. WTF?!.

Now, I do buy a lot of games on Steam for the PC. I do like that the fact I know longer need to care for a Disc, and never have to install multiple updates. Plus the fact that I buy a alot of games at 50% - 75% off! So, that is very convenient.

However, the fact you have to be online to play a single player game seems ridiculous. I hope that is tweaked to be able to play in offline mode.

Either way, I feel sorry for GameStop. That's the only place I go for games a accessories as it fits my budget. The only thing that will result in going this route will mean I spend less money on games. I don't think that's the result they are looking for.

Goodbye Microsoft
By Wolfpup on 2/7/2013 1:05:06 PM , Rating: 2
The only reason I buy Xbox games now over PC is the lack of activation. Add activation and I can already do that better on better hardware with a PC (not to mention that's activation free).

The only good thing about this is if they really do this, it makes my decision this generation SUUUUUPER simple-Playstation 4 it is, unless Sony does the same thing.

Unboxing the old consoles
By TimberJon on 2/7/2013 1:45:13 PM , Rating: 2
How many "Activations" would you get? Bye gamefly, it was fun. If they are trying to go gung ho DRM then there is no way they will have a DRM-free media version for rentals only. Or the cost of those particular discs would cost the host so much they would need to raise price schemes beyond what the typical renter wants to bear.

Might be time to unpack my N64 and PS2 - again.

Not like to happen.
By LieutenantCrunch on 2/8/2013 12:19:50 PM , Rating: 2
I really don't think this is going to come to fruition. There are still plenty of places the game consoles may be used that will not have an internet connection. It may not be a large percentage of the customer base, but I think it's a large enough segment that this would effectively cut off.

Also as others have mentioned, this would kill being able to bring games to a friends house. Why would I buy SSFVII Alpha Bravo Dragon Team Monkey Twilight Hyper Edition if I'm going to be forced to bring my console with me when I hang out with friends.

By CristinaGibbs22 on 2/9/2013 9:33:58 PM , Rating: 2
If you think Anthony`s story is terrific..., 1 week ago my bro made $4568 working thirteen hours a week from there house and the're roomate's sister-in-law`s neighbour was doing this for 3 months and easily made more than $4568 in there spare time at there labtop. the guide on this site, Fox76.comTAKE A LOOK

By TheJian on 2/10/2013 9:02:08 AM , Rating: 2
So we have MS killing customer sentiment, ouya, Project Shield, Steambox, etc etc, tablets, phones etc all competing for what consoles used to own.

I've said it before, consoles are dead, and MS is speeding this along here. We no longer need a $400 console. Sales are diminishing already and they're putting nails in the coffin's of the next gen before they even debut. ONLINE ONLY? Seriously? ROFL.

In other news, future sales of Xbox720 have been predicted to be 1/2 or less than xbox 360...JUST LIKE WIN8 vs. 7. We no longer have to take what you attempt to shove down our throats. We have options. Online only will kill sales no matter what. A large portion of the buying public still has dial-up or no internet at all. Even in a robust economy this move would be ridiculous. In a crap economy it's just plain retarded (and retards should be offended I compared this move to them). But I'm glad this is coming. It's a quicker death than I could have hoped for and will definitely speed this along so we can get back to games being made on PC for PC and ported to other devices AFTER rather than the reverse situation we have now.

Thanks MS. :)

By VeronicaGibbs22 on 2/10/2013 7:18:38 PM , Rating: 2
Luke. if you, thought Dale`s c0mment is impossible, yesterday I picked up themselves a Ford since I been earnin $9311 this-last/5 weeks and-in excess of, 10 grand this past-month. this is certainly the most-comfortable work I have ever had. I actually started 3 months ago and immediately got me minimum $87... p/h. I use this website, Great60.comCHECK IT OUT

New Console!
By santeana on 2/15/2013 2:05:03 PM , Rating: 2
It's ok. If they all wind up doing this, it will open up a new console niche in the market. One which companies like Samsung will fill with open source (Android?) based systems! And the peasants rejoice! :D

By NicholeGibbs22 on 2/6/2013 4:47:09 PM , Rating: 1
Ryder. I just agree... Lisa`s artlclee is neat... last tuesday I bought a top of the range volvo since I been bringin in $9007 this - five weeks past and a little over ten k last-month. without a question it is the coolest job I have ever had. I actually started six months/ago and almost straight away startad making minimum $82.. per hour. I went to this web-site, Fox76.comTAKE A LOOK

By JackBurton on 2/6/13, Rating: 0
"Young lady, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" -- Homer Simpson

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