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Even though consumers are using more energy-friendly appliances, more electronics are holding efficiency back further

A new report released by the International Energy Agency (IEA) said demand for devices like mobile phones, MP3 players, PCs and TVs negatively impact energy efficiency gains that have been made by other products in the household.

The IEA is concerned, if the trend doesn't stop, electronic household device energy consumption will triple before 2030.  As people live more affluent lives, it has been increasingly difficult to reduce the amount of energy use and greenhouse gases produced, the research report said.

“There is a way of having our cake and eating it at the same time by being much more proactive on efficiency,” IEA analyst Paul Wade recently said.  “We can hold total consumption at today's levels by using best available technologies, despite a dramatic growth in use.”

According to the report, electricity consumption has increased 3.4 percent per year since 1990 across the entire world.  Electronics such as PCs, TVs and DVD players, and MP3 players are using more electricity while refrigerators and dishwashers power usage has declined – however, consumer electronics offset all of the savings that took years to implement.

It should be interesting to see if more governments are going to put pressure upon manufacturers or consumers, or if both groups will be called upon to reduce consumption.  Not all is lost, however, since the majority of electronics and appliances have improved energy efficiency – the report indicates that it's now up to the consumer to purchase these devices.  

Governments and companies are attempting to help consumers reduce energy consumption by releasing greener products that use less power.  In the United Kingdom, the government will roll out smart meters in 2.6 million British households per year over the next 10 years. 



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It's more about habits
By AnnihilatorX on 5/14/2009 8:35:31 AM , Rating: 5
Living with university students you know how people have very bad habits in terms of energy efficiency.

Leaving out pot lids when boiling pasta with full gas for example. Boiling water through the pot rather than first using a electric kettle is another example. The most evil of all is to turn on heater in winter while wearing shorts in Hawaiian style




RE: It's more about habits
By mdogs444 on 5/14/2009 8:53:14 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Boiling water through the pot rather than first using a electric kettle is another example.

You must be from Europe - I've never heard of this before. Not that its a bad thing, just not familiar with boiling water first in an electrical kettle and I'm 29yrs old.
quote:
The most evil of all is to turn on heater in winter while wearing shorts in Hawaiian style

I beg to differ. I own my own home, pay my utilities. I am comfortable in shorts and a tshirt - so if thats what I want to wear in the winter while footing the gas bill, then so be it. In the summer, I crank my central air down to about 65, and in the winter I jack the heat up to about 74. I get up and go to work 60+ hours per week so I can live a comfortable life at home - and energy efficiency, or sacrificing what I consider to be my affordable luxuries, is not a main concern.


RE: It's more about habits
By AnnihilatorX on 5/14/2009 9:10:01 AM , Rating: 3
Indeed I am from Europe. When not many people do that actually. It is more energy and time efficient as well if you have a good kettle. The energy efficiency part is due to insulation. For time efficiency, it takes 3 minutes for my electric kettle to boil 8 cups of water while on a pot it takes at least double that.

quote:
I beg to differ. I own my own home, pay my utilities. I am comfortable in shorts and a tshirt - so if thats what I want to wear in the winter while footing the gas bill, then so be it. In the summer, I crank my central air down to about 65, and in the winter I jack the heat up to about 74. I get up and go to work 60+ hours per week so I can live a comfortable life at home - and energy efficiency, or sacrificing what I consider to be my affordable luxuries, is not a main concern.


I have nothing to say against that. People are free to do whatever they what with their money. It's similar to the case of convincing people do recycling. Why would I spend my time doing that at all when I can just chuck everything into the garbage bin.

But the funny thing I have observed is, people will put off cloths when hot before turning heater down, and similarly, putting cloths on in case of air conditioning when cold before turning down the air conditioner.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 12:07:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
For time efficiency, it takes 3 minutes for my electric kettle to boil 8 cups of water while on a pot it takes at least double that.
Never heard of an electric kettle. I wouldn't mind saving some time during that process and propane is retarded expensive. I'll look into this. Thanks much.


RE: It's more about habits
By Keeir on 5/14/2009 12:56:25 PM , Rating: 4
I also recommend using the Microwave to heat water. Most good microwaves are 2x as efficient at boiling water than gas.

I personally like Induction Cooktops and if I cooked more, would seriously consider getting one.


RE: It's more about habits
By SiN on 5/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's more about habits
By foolsgambit11 on 5/15/2009 6:54:03 PM , Rating: 4
Oh, come on. Haven't you ever watched Mythbusters? That can happen, but in 20 years of using microwaves to heat water, it's never happened to me. The water has to be ultra-pure, apparently, otherwise the impurities allow the water to boil normally. So if you're really worried about it, just put a wooden stir-stick in the cup of water while heating it.


RE: It's more about habits
By SiN on 5/20/2009 9:34:03 AM , Rating: 2
its funny how a safety message gets torn to shreds.
i don't see how i get down rated for it.
i would rather know what could cause me 3rd degree burns than not know.

i don't watch mythbusters out of choice, i just thought the original poster "may" not be aware of the dangers, as i also assume there will be others who also out of ignorance or uninformed status might want to also be aware that "it can in fact cause 3rd degree burns" regardless of what the outcome was on a TV show.

i assume you have no filtration system in your home that takes out these impurities, which is fair enough given you like to microwave your tap water.

BOILING WATER in your microwave still causes the temp to exceed the needed temperature, and yes, you can still boil it far in excess using a micorwave - something i guess the mythbusters overlooked in their quest for glory or something u managed to forget to mention. either way im sure the message was "boiling water in the microwave is still unadvisable"

usually tv programs state that safety message on the end or before such shows, genrally for the sake of innocent minds watching the show.

the internet hasn't really matured that far yet.


RE: It's more about habits
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 5/14/2009 12:13:16 PM , Rating: 1
We use coffee makers in the US, not electric kettles and tea pots (what's "tea?") and that is the reason that the 29YO poster who wants to kill his own grand children NOW with his shorts and t-shirt doesn't know anything about those items.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 1:17:05 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
We use coffee makers in the US, not electric kettles and tea pots
I have a tea pot and a coffee maker. I prefer tea though because I like the taste better. The coffee maker is electric but never thought of having an electric tea pot.


RE: It's more about habits
By TSS on 5/14/2009 6:46:39 PM , Rating: 3
i'm pretty sure an "electric kettle" and an "electric tea pot" come down to what i know as, a "water boiler".

runs on elecricity , has a big spiral heating element at the bottom, takes less then a minute to boil a full cup, a bit more then a minute for 2.

you guys don't use that? atleast the people drinking tea.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 7:16:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you guys don't use that? atleast the people drinking tea.
I don't know anyone that has one. Most people I know have the stovetop tea pots.


RE: It's more about habits
By pequin06 on 5/14/2009 7:34:41 PM , Rating: 2
I have one.
Only used it where I worked not for home use.


RE: It's more about habits
By JediJeb on 5/15/2009 4:44:28 PM , Rating: 2
I drink Iced Tea so I make mine at room temperature with only hot water from the tap. Just fill a gallon jug and add a couple tea bags. Uses very little energy that way, but takes about an hour to brew.

Another way to save electricity is to dry your cloths outside when the weather is nice. I hardly ever use a dryer in the summer anymore.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: It's more about habits
By Samus on 5/16/2009 8:04:14 PM , Rating: 3
Electric is infinately safer as well when your boiling alcohol to distill pot leaves to make some dope hash oil.

I know. Random.


RE: It's more about habits
By Danger D on 5/14/2009 9:21:20 AM , Rating: 1
You don’t have to be a treehugger, but you’re telling me you’re comfortable at 74 degrees only when it requires you to blow money and waste electricity?

Working 60 hours a week doesn’t absolve you from anything. And it’s pretty stupid that you use your extra cash to pay for an asinine pissing match with environmentalists.


RE: It's more about habits
By Smilin on 5/14/2009 9:35:19 AM , Rating: 1
lol maybe he wouldn't have to work 60 hours a week if he didn't sit around in shorts with the heater cranked to 74 in the winter.

btw, we have a saying here at my job: if you're working 80 hours a week to be successful then you're not. I suppose 60 would apply if you're doing it week after week.


RE: It's more about habits
By Xavier434 on 5/14/2009 11:16:21 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. Money is really easy to make if you are dedicated enough. Becoming wealthy with time, on the other hand, is a very difficult to do.


RE: It's more about habits
By mdogs444 on 5/14/2009 11:35:43 AM , Rating: 2
I work 60hrs a week because I enjoy my job, they pay me very very well, and at 29yrs old I have more than enough money to enjoy my lifestyle, several new cars, a home, a condo, 2 dogs, and a wonderful gf, and i'll retire by age 50. So...if thats not a definition of success....then I take it that working 40hrs a week until you're 65, and worrying all day about being efficient just to get by is.


RE: It's more about habits
By Smilin on 5/14/2009 12:30:47 PM , Rating: 4
Golf clap + head pat.


RE: It's more about habits
By WW102 on 5/14/2009 2:17:56 PM , Rating: 5
I always enjoy on the internet that when people make a judgment about someone on the internet be it job, car, wealth, or looks. People always fire back defensively with the best stuff. Example someone is called fat and lazy the person responds. I own 5 homes that and keep 4 exotic sports cars at each. I work at a job where I paid more than anyone in my state. I have a supermodel girlfriend and can run 5 miles every morning in under 30 minutes. To bad no one ever calls out the "real" losers on the interent.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 2:53:04 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I always enjoy on the internet that when people make a judgment about someone on the internet be it job, car, wealth, or looks.
What I love about the internet is the blatant hypocrisy. I remember a thread where people were bashing SUV owners and one of the bashers drove an SUV!!! But he didn't consider HIS SUV a SUV. He only considered certain SUV's to be SUV's. Friggin hilarious!! The internet is really good entertainment for me. Way better than any reality show.


RE: It's more about habits
By Lord 666 on 5/14/2009 5:03:06 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, you live in Ohio. It doesn't matter what you have, at the end of the day, you still live in Ohio. That's grading on a very steep curve in my book.


RE: It's more about habits
By superkdogg on 5/14/2009 5:34:54 PM , Rating: 2
I just don't get why you want it to be 74 in the winter and 65 in the summer in your home.

Does the outside temp somehow effect what temperature you have to have inside in order to be comfortable by some 9 degrees?

Good for you for working hard and having plans to retire, but I do hope that sometimes you consider the fact that what you (and everybody else for that matter) choose to waste does have a cost other than dollars. If everybody drove around in H1's who could afford to there would be a lot less oil to go around and worse environmental effects from smog and CO2. I'm no treehugger, but there's an entirely different reason to not waste fossil fuels that has nothing to do with what you earn or when you want to retire.


RE: It's more about habits
By JoshuaBuss on 5/18/2009 5:19:30 PM , Rating: 2
Well said. If you simply adjusted your internal preference clock by 6 months, you could enjoy the same huge swing in temperatures and conserve mucho energy and $.

You could even get enough another nice car with the savings.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 12:22:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You don’t have to be a treehugger, but you’re telling me you’re comfortable at 74 degrees only when it requires you to blow money and waste electricity?
74 in my house is a little too hot and propane is too expensive. I usually run my heater at 65-68 although I'd rather have it at 70. In the summer, I run my swamp cooler mostly but if it's too humid to run that then my A/C is set at 78-80. It's too cold otherwise. I only run it lower if I have guests.


RE: It's more about habits
By arazok on 5/14/2009 1:34:09 PM , Rating: 5
The difference in cost to keep a home at 74, vs 68 in the winter is probably $10-15 per month. Most people I know take the $15 bucks, and freeze in their own homes. Yet they have no problem pissing money away on gimmicky electronics, pet rocks, and lottery tickets.

I prefer to be comfortable, and keep my home at 72-74. I don’t understand how the environmental movement has twisted peoples views to the point where you’re frowned upon because you (gasp) want to keep you home at an ideal temperature. It’s not like I have the windows cranked open and the heat cranked. I just want to be warm.


RE: It's more about habits
By ClownPuncher on 5/14/2009 3:36:03 PM , Rating: 4
Try doing some cardio, 74 is pretty hot for anyone who has a decent circulatory system. BTW I have 9 cars and a mastadon that does my dishes.


RE: It's more about habits
By arazok on 5/14/2009 3:39:36 PM , Rating: 2
Room temperature is 72, which is what my thermostat is programmed for. But I’m a skinny guy, so I often find myself turning it up to 74 on those cold winter days.


RE: It's more about habits
By ClownPuncher on 5/14/2009 3:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
You didn't address the real issue. Mastadon slavery. I hope PETA can't log my IP!


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 5:47:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The difference in cost to keep a home at 74, vs 68 in the winter is probably $10-15 per month.
With electric and natural gas that's no problem because both are relatively cheap. But with propane, you're paying gasoline prices for it. Keeping it off as long as possible saves money and in my house the heater comes on MUCH less often at 68 than 74. Last winter I paid around $600 a month for propane. The winter before when prices were high, we paid $900 a month for propane.

I do have a pellet stove that really keeps things VERY comfortable in the family room and kitchen and lowers my propane costs dramatically but it broke and we decided to put the money into propane and fix it later. We did have the exhaust replaced because it wasn't to code. Don't know how that got past inspection but whatever.


RE: It's more about habits
By albundy2 on 5/15/2009 5:35:27 AM , Rating: 2
600-900? wtf? are you heating a forest? do you live under a tarp?


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/15/2009 12:40:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
600-900? wtf? are you heating a forest? do you live under a tarp?
Not at all. I keep it around 68 degrees and if I won't be home, I turn it down to 65. It's propane dude. It fluctuates with gas prices and costs the same per gallon as gas. My tank is 100 gallons and I pay $2.65 per gallon plus delivery charges, taxes and other stuff. On a cold windy day (we have wind gusts in the 45-55 mph range and on occasion hurricane force gusts), I can use as much as 2% a day even at a 65 degree setting.

It's expensive during the winter and fortunately I can afford to pay the costs without suffering in other areas but I sure could use that money for things like Xmas, vacations, maybe an extra payment on the cars, etc.

As expensive as this is, I really fail to see why home builders in my area continue to do the propane thing. Electric heating would be FAR cheaper to do. We also have a pellet stove that works big time but it broke last winter so we had to pay the full propane costs. We're researching wall mounted heat pumps for our bedroom so we can not use the propane at all for heating.


RE: It's more about habits
By albundy2 on 5/16/2009 3:34:44 AM , Rating: 2
dude, buy some of those small forced air heaters. my apt had those celing heaters from the 70's. just by switching to the little portable heaters dropped my electric bill by $70. some forms of heat are just way too inefficient. definately makes you wonder wtf were they smoking.

i live in the columbia gorge, so i know what you mean w/cold and wind, but with the high / unstable price of propane, you might consider a trip to walmart this fall dropping $100 on some of the electric heaters and see if it helps. i know i was shocked.


RE: It's more about habits
By arazok on 5/15/2009 8:40:15 AM , Rating: 2
600-900 a month?! I’d be keeping it at 50!

I think you have bigger problems. My parents once had a home heated with propane and it didn’t cost anything close to that to heat. Is there a gaping hole in your roof that you might have overlooked?


RE: It's more about habits
By Mathos on 5/15/2009 12:36:51 PM , Rating: 2
No, propane got really stupid high right along with the gas prices. Lot of places in Texas that have to use propane as their main source of heat/cooking, especially farther out of towns where you can't get natural gas city lines.

Now if it's an older house which it sounds like, it's probably not insulated all that well. And most likely the cooking stove, and hot water heater all use propane. And when that's the case, it goes away fast. Especially with any sizable family where you need to cook often, or have a bathtub instead of a shower.

Now, ironically one of the more efficient ways I've seen to heat has been fuel oil furnace. Think the friends of mine that had that only had to get their tank filled once a year, if that.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/15/2009 12:46:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Now if it's an older house which it sounds like, it's probably not insulated all that well.
Nope. 2003 home with spray on insulation. Even all of the interior walls are insulated. It's just expensive out here in CA that's all.


RE: It's more about habits
By ZmaxDP on 5/15/2009 5:50:21 PM , Rating: 2
The reason I don't keep my home at a "ideal" temperature year round has to do with comfort. You see, there is this thing called "outside" where temperature fluctuates with the "seasons."

All kidding aside, if your body spends most of it's time in 72-74 degree weather, it assumes that is the norm and you are uncomfortable when you're not in that temperature range. Ever notice how people from the tropics like it hotter on average, and people from up north like it cooler on average?

The human body is capable of being comfortable at a pretty wide range of temperatures. I like to keep my house cooler in the winter and warmer in the summer because when I go outside I get less of a shock from the change in temperature and I'm not so miserable on those really hot or really cold days.

Our bodies weren't designed with central air in mind you know...

Doesn't have a thing to do with the environment or my energy bills, those are just nice side effects.


RE: It's more about habits
By Keeir on 5/14/2009 12:58:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
beg to differ. I own my own home, pay my utilities...


Not Evil

Maybe Stupid, Silly, Self-indulgent, Hedonistic, etc

But yep, not Evil


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 1:28:27 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Maybe Stupid, Silly, Self-indulgent, Hedonistic, etc
You know that he'll keep doing it regardless of what you or anyone else says, right? I try to be efficient myself but I do it to save time and money rather than to live up to some idealistic goal. For me, efficiency is a luxury. If I was worried about simple stuff like eating, I would not care to be efficient at all. But my life is sooooo good I can afford to use an electric tea pot or use one glass to drink out of per day or use the same bath towel for a 5 days. Saves time and money. Two things I can apply to something else more enjoyable.

Now mdogs finds setting the temp in his home to whatever he chooses to be a luxury and that makes him happy and his life just that more enjoyable. I see no wrong in that. He's a blessed man and that's part of what drives him.

Environmental impact or not, you gotta be happy with your life. If you're miserable or unsatisfied, then nothing matters anyways.


RE: It's more about habits
By TSS on 5/14/2009 7:15:49 PM , Rating: 2
i dunno why you got rated up but you make no sense. efficiency isn't a luxery, otherwise it'd mean you'd squanter at every opertunity unless you give yourself the luxury treatment, and actually save some money.

seems to me most of the people here including the article think efficiency means squandering less power. efficiency means *not squandering*. not wasting energy. not using less.

for the average person it's not a question of efficiency wether or not to turn the heat up, it's a question of money. if you want to manage heat effectively and still get warm, put on a sweater.

retaining body heat is always more efficient then heating the ambient temperature.

mdogs doesn't find it a luxury, we all do, because it *is*. it's one he can pay for, however, so that makes it ok, and i'm not about to question that.

quote:
But my life is sooooo good I can afford to use an electric tea pot or use one glass to drink out of per day or use the same bath towel for a 5 days. Saves time and money.


i just have to reply to this. it doesn't make any sense at all. drinking out of the same glass the entire day isn't efficient, you rinse it off alot more often which wastes water. efficient is finding out how much dishes you can wash with a single sink of dishwashing water, then using that amount and then clean the dishes.

same way as using the same towel for 5 days ISNT efficient. the towel will start to smell, you will start to smell, and waste 4 days of water washing your body. it'd be more efficient to use the washer a few times more for the towels, because as the article states, those have become quite efficient over the years.

what do you think we have more of? electricity or clean, fresh water?

efficiency is not using less/spending less/doing less. efficiency is doing more of x for a equal/less investment of y.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/15/2009 1:05:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
efficiency is not using less/spending less/doing less.
Ok.


RE: It's more about habits
By foolsgambit11 on 5/15/2009 7:17:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
i dunno why you got rated up but you make no sense. efficiency isn't a luxery, otherwise it'd mean you'd squanter at every opertunity unless you give yourself the luxury treatment, and actually save some money.
Um. No. He said the exact opposite. He said that mdogs enjoys putting the temperature to whatever he feels like, as a luxury. He pays no heed to efficiency, which would demand him using his heater/AC unit less.

And that is the definition of luxury, really. Being inefficient. Food that isn't just about providing nutrition and calories. Clothing that isn't just about maintaining body temperature/protection from the elements. Housing and amenities that are about more than keeping you alive. Anything beyond the most basic necessities to sustain life, really.


RE: It's more about habits
By FITCamaro on 5/14/2009 2:19:12 PM , Rating: 3
Yes because choosing to be comfortable is stupid, silly, self-indulgent, hedonistic, etc.

It's much better to live in misery.


RE: It's more about habits
By Keeir on 5/14/2009 5:11:26 PM , Rating: 2
Hey

He is not choose to be "comformtable". Setting you temperature of your home HIGHER in winter than in Summer is both silly and stupid by pretty much any measure.

Defination: Hedonist: –noun 1. a person whose life is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure and self-gratification.

Seems to me to fit the bill here.

I don't think that makes him Evil or "Wrong". I think he should be entitled to be as Stupid/Hedonistic as he wants to be. But to call it "comfort" is ridicolous.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 6:02:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Defination: Hedonist: –noun 1. a person whose life is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure and self-gratification
How do you know what he devotes his life to? All we know is he likes to set the temperature in house to 74 in the winter and 65 in the summer. If these temps make him feel comfortable then he's friggin comfortable. Comfort is defined by the individual not by the group.

I think the real issue here is that there's a group of people that want to control what other people want to do. You won't say what he does is "evil" nor will you tell him that he can't do what he does BUT you hope that if you insult him enough, he'll cave into what you want. You choose to use peer pressure and coercion instead of laws (I'm sure you would LOVE making his choice illegal).


RE: It's more about habits
By Keeir on 5/14/2009 6:49:42 PM , Rating: 2
Hmmm... he pretty much said so in his post

Paraphrase

"I like work. I work to buy myself fun toys and be comfortable and happy. I don't care what others think. I am going to be happy."

quote:
(I'm sure you would LOVE making his choice illegal).


Hahah. I am probably one of the more free market/free choice people on this board as my comments will attest to.

However, I am not going to refuse to call a Duck a Duck. His choices are from a rational viewpoint, absurd. Not because they are "evil", "depreving others", or any value based words. But from a strictly observational point, it does not really make sense to heat your home to 74 in Winter so you can wear short sleves/shorts, IE you as a person require ~74 degree to be comfortable. But in Summer cool your home past the comfortable point for short sleves/shorts you just established in winter?

I would like the externality of actual air pollution to be assessed on power bills etc to give the actual full cost to society to produce the power so the economically ideal consumption point is used for power consumption rather than an artifical high or low. But unfortunely, I doubt such a number could ever be assessed, so I can't see that as a viable "solution".


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 7:20:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
However, I am not going to refuse to call a Duck a Duck. His choices are from a rational viewpoint, absurd.
Subjective. Ducks? Not subjective.


RE: It's more about habits
By afkrotch on 5/14/2009 8:57:08 AM , Rating: 1
I leave my computers on 24/7, whether I'm on them or not.


RE: It's more about habits
By AnnihilatorX on 5/14/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's more about habits
By mdogs444 on 5/14/2009 9:08:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sadly I blame Microsoft really. Computer bootup time is too slow.

Wait - are you really blaming Microsoft because they make you leave your PC on? They are at fault because of your lack of patience? Buy a faster PC, dont use Windows, give yourself some extra time, dont be in such a rush....hell, just dont use a computer since it's essentially a luxury item.

But for god sake, there is no way you could have said that you blame Microsoft with a honest mindset.


RE: It's more about habits
By AnnihilatorX on 5/14/2009 9:15:13 AM , Rating: 2
Upcoming Vista SP2 is suppose to fix problems relating to resuming from suspension and hibernation for wireless cards. That's a Microsoft fault.

Bootup time has not much to do with how fast a PC is. I have SSD as my OS drive. Bootup time is still over a minute.


RE: It's more about habits
By d0gb0y on 5/14/2009 9:28:52 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Bootup time is still over a minute.


Noooooooo!!!! The horror!


RE: It's more about habits
By Chudilo on 5/14/2009 9:42:24 AM , Rating: 2
Ubuntu boots in 24 sec. flat!
And that's to a fully usable state when you can start opening Applications like Firefox or whatever.


RE: It's more about habits
By tmouse on 5/14/2009 9:38:50 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry but over a minute, in another thread someone complains boot up is 2 minutes so in both cases the computers are left on 24/7. You are losing orders of magnitude more energy than you are saving using a electric kettle to preheat your pasta water. What do you do with ALL of the time you save by not having to boot up the PC? I think the main problem we have is no one wants to wait for more than a minute anymore for anything.

I'm not really trying to single you out personally it's just we are becomming such an impatient species.


RE: It's more about habits
By nixoofta on 5/14/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's more about habits
By nixoofta on 5/17/2009 1:18:11 AM , Rating: 2
Geez,...you know how much energy I saved with that joke!?


RE: It's more about habits
By corduroygt on 5/16/2009 10:10:05 AM , Rating: 2
Try working for a large corporation where they have XP, login scripts, restricted internet, group policy, McAfee(one of the crappiest anti-virus programs out there) etc.
My login workstation, which is a Core 2 with 2GB memory literally takes 10 minutes to boot up. That's why I don't turn it off, even for the weekends.


RE: It's more about habits
By FITCamaro on 5/14/2009 9:31:38 AM , Rating: 2
If I close my laptop and it goes into standby, when I open the lid, Windows pops right back up. After I enter my password, everything is ready to go in a matter of seconds.

But since I'm not someone who gets upset at having to wait 30-45 seconds for my computer to be ready to use, I turn off my laptop and cold boot.


RE: It's more about habits
By Smilin on 5/14/2009 9:40:24 AM , Rating: 2
So blame your wireless card manufacturer, tard.

Microsoft allows you to sleep and hibernate your computer. It's not their fault if you use a crappy driver that can't handle basic suspend states. It's 2009 already, people should have figured out how to write a driver using features that have been available for a decade.

I swear some people won't be happy until God sends locusts to Redmond and turns the bay in Seattle to blood.


RE: It's more about habits
By ClownPuncher on 5/14/2009 3:43:23 PM , Rating: 2
I know, damn american companies bringing billions to americans! Then, they turn around and give hundreds of millions to american charities???. The nerve


RE: It's more about habits
By Xavier434 on 5/14/2009 11:19:32 AM , Rating: 2
Hit the power button. Get up and fix yourself a snack and a drink. Come back. Start using your computer.

I can understand the downloading thing and maybe even the virus scanning to some extent, but blaming the boot time is kinda dumb. MS is not the issue. Your time management skills on the other hand...


RE: It's more about habits
By Chudilo on 5/14/2009 9:43:46 AM , Rating: 2
You there is something called Wake ON Lan.
You can "wake-up" your computer remotely from a fully shutdown state as long as it's still plugged in.


RE: It's more about habits
By spread on 5/14/2009 12:20:34 PM , Rating: 2
I leave car, lawnmower, and stove on 24/7 because they takes too long to start up.

I blame oil company for problem.


RE: It's more about habits
By borowki2 on 5/14/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's more about habits
By borowki2 on 5/14/2009 9:20:13 AM , Rating: 2
P.S. Nuke a communist gay baby seal for Christ


RE: It's more about habits
By AnnihilatorX on 5/14/2009 9:25:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You're supposed to leave the lid off and keep water a full boil when you cook pasta. Trying to save energy means lousy pasta.


Interesting. I don't think it makes a difference. Temperature of water in slow boil versus fast boil is essentially the same, 100 degrees Celsius. It would make zero difference to the quality of pasta.


RE: It's more about habits
By borowki2 on 5/14/2009 9:34:07 AM , Rating: 3
A vigorous boil water keeps the pasta from sticking together.


RE: It's more about habits
By djc208 on 5/14/2009 10:21:21 AM , Rating: 5
So does a spoon.


RE: It's more about habits
By Xavier434 on 5/14/2009 11:20:24 AM , Rating: 3
...and a pinch or two of salt added while boiling.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 12:29:57 PM , Rating: 4
I throw in a little olive oil. Works wonders.


RE: It's more about habits
By FITCamaro on 5/14/2009 2:20:52 PM , Rating: 3
Adds flavor too. But I still keep it at a vigorous boil.


RE: It's more about habits
By pequin06 on 5/14/2009 3:19:09 PM , Rating: 3
Tsk Tsk, adding salt to the water raises the temp for the water to boil meaning you're using more energy and killing more baby seals and polar bears.
Barack Obama would be disappointed that you are not sacrificing good tasting pasta in the name of the greater good.
Gawd you're all selfish...
How much energy was used to extract that olive oil?
You're part of the problem if you didn't buy olive oil that was made from stone wheels and donkey power with cap and trades in place for the donkey emissions.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 6:05:59 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
How much energy was used to extract that olive oil?
It was offset by me holding my breath for an hour afterwards.


RE: It's more about habits
By goku on 5/15/2009 1:39:41 AM , Rating: 3
Where the hell did you come up with that? Adding salt would REDUCE the boiling temperature, the temperature in which the water boils at. Have you ever heard of super heating water? Water so hot yet it doesn't boil, you add a sugar cube and it explodes? To superheat water, you heat distilled water in a glass in a microwave. Why does this water not boil? Because it's clean and has no particulates, increasing the temperature in which it needs to boil. So if sugar cube would cause super heated water to explode (boil) why would salt increase the boiling temperature?


RE: It's more about habits
By borowki2 on 5/14/2009 3:45:42 PM , Rating: 2
Then the sauce won't stick to the pasta. Duh.


RE: It's more about habits
By borowki2 on 5/14/2009 3:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
And stirring with a spoon requires no energy...


RE: It's more about habits
By ClownPuncher on 5/14/2009 4:03:05 PM , Rating: 2
If stirring with a spoon burns any significant calories for you, maybe its because you have massive sausage-link tubby arms. You really want the INTERNET to know you have tubby arms. For shame.


RE: It's more about habits
By corduroygt on 5/16/2009 10:20:27 AM , Rating: 3
You need to leave the lid off to stir though...


RE: It's more about habits
By pequin06 on 5/14/2009 10:27:31 AM , Rating: 3
I sometimes leave my 46" Samsung LCD TV on for my dog while the wife and I are out.
We also leave a light or two on.

The cries about the environment have worn very thin.
I just don't care anymore.
I'm mentally tired about the polar bears, the trees, or whatever other animal or plant that is endangered.
It's just like the time when everyone kept saying "Think of the children!"
It got old and I could care less about the children.
My Give A Damn has been become busted.

I smoke, I drink, and have a truck.
I'm politically incorrect and do not give damn about Earth Day.
I celebrate The Industrial Revolution and give thanks to it making everyone’s life better.
I love capitalism and The American Way and will not trade it for anything.


RE: It's more about habits
By DukeN on 5/14/2009 10:40:07 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for being a typical arrogant and ignorant American.

Way to bring a stereotype to life!


RE: It's more about habits
By pequin06 on 5/14/2009 11:54:15 AM , Rating: 2
Sarcasm?

I said nothing arrogant or ignorant.

Break it down down for me.


RE: It's more about habits
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 5/14/2009 12:28:16 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, if you can't break it down from that quasi(queasy)-peotic post, then you are beyond ignorant. It also mentions "trucks", so there you go.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 12:32:13 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, trucks and big houses aren't the sh!t anymore. The closer to living in a cave you are the better.


RE: It's more about habits
By kaoken on 5/14/2009 12:54:22 PM , Rating: 2
I'm from America, this idiot doesn't represent us.


RE: It's more about habits
By InfantryRocks on 5/14/2009 2:51:32 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, he does. Sorry, you're in the minority. There's a helluva lot of room in any number of Third World countries, too. Very one-with-nature. You should check it out.

Why don't you go there and live the good life away from us neandrathals?


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 6:11:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why don't you go there and live the good life away from us neandrathals?
That's what cracks me up the most. Instead of going and living the life that they so much desire, they instead go around and insult the people that express NO desire to do so. Why not live by example? Is it because you (the royal you) also desire to live comfortably but are too afraid to express it? I personally could give a rats a$$ what ANYONE thinks of how I live my life. If you can live my life better, come replace me. Put a pod in my closet and wait till I fall asleep and have at it. Until that happens, you gots nuthin.


RE: It's more about habits
By Lord 666 on 5/14/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's more about habits
By pequin06 on 5/14/2009 7:32:44 PM , Rating: 3
We sure do have some snooty people at DailyTech.

I don't see how what I said has any correlation with being ignorant and arrogant or dumb and a hick.

You fail, along with the other people who have nothing to offer but insults.

I would like to know where the superiority complexes come from that gives greens/leftist the right to tell me and others how to live.
What are yalls qualifications other than big mouths?
What are yalls experiences in life?

Jeez people, get some exposure, pickup some books on history and economics or how about getting real jobs.
I bet these smart alecs have never done any "real" work.


RE: It's more about habits
By Lord 666 on 5/14/2009 11:47:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I don't see how what I said has any correlation with being ignorant and arrogant or dumb and a hick.


and

quote:
What are yalls qualifications other than big mouths?
What are yalls experiences in life?


Thanks for proving it Billy Joe Bob... Anyone who posts "yalls" is illiterate, stupid, and a hick.


RE: It's more about habits
By pequin06 on 5/15/2009 11:11:55 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Thanks for proving it Billy Joe Bob... Anyone who posts "yalls" is illiterate, stupid, and a hick.


Oh wow, calling people stupid, hick and illiterate wins the day.
I guess I better start living a "green" life. Such powerful discourse is hard to refute.


RE: It's more about habits
By MrPeabody on 5/14/2009 1:02:49 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, stereotypes! What fun!

Tell me, are you being a typical egotistic and condescending non-American America-hater, or a typical patronizing and holier-than-thy-fellow-Americans American America-hater?


RE: It's more about habits
By InfantryRocks on 5/14/2009 2:47:29 PM , Rating: 2
What you said.

To hell with the GD enviro-whackos. There's an energy shortage? Make more. We have the technology.

I refuse to live like a caveman to appease some idiots. A number of which appear to be on this tech forum, too, ironically.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 6:22:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I refuse to live like a caveman to appease some idiots. A number of which appear to be on this tech forum, too, ironically.
None of these want to live in caves too. They live in comfortable middle-class homes with expensive computers. This is just all talk. There's not one person here who will go live what comes out of their mouths. Oh yeah sure you got the electric tea pot, turning down (or up) the thermostat, only flushing once a day and etc. You feel good doing your part but you're still part of the wasteful, western culture. I highly recommend that you leave the country and go live in one of those highly desirable primitive countries.


RE: It's more about habits
By bodar on 5/15/2009 5:55:19 AM , Rating: 1
RE: It's more about habits
By corduroygt on 5/16/2009 10:13:22 AM , Rating: 2
My 46" LCD turns itself off after 20 minutes or so when there's no signal. I wish my receiver and cable box did the same, then I wouldn't have to turn anything off by myself.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spivonious on 5/14/2009 9:24:42 AM , Rating: 2
As you point out, there are lots of small things people can do to save energy. But unless you provide motivation for people, there's no real reason they'll want to save.

For me, it's the lower electricity bill. It's truly amazing how much power is saved by simply setting the heat to 65 instead of 68, or using a space heater in the room you're in rather than heating the entire house. Letting the computer go to sleep rather than keeping it on full power 24/7. I do agree with the poster above that Windows takes way too long to boot. I used to shut down my PC because it only took 20-30 seconds to boot. With the Windows 7 RC, my PC takes over two minutes to boot. That's too long to wait to just check my email, so I leave the PC on.


RE: It's more about habits
By geokilla on 5/14/2009 11:17:29 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Living with university students you know how people have very bad habits in terms of energy efficiency. Leaving out pot lids when boiling pasta with full gas for example. Boiling water through the pot rather than first using a electric kettle is another example. The most evil of all is to turn on heater in winter while wearing shorts in Hawaiian style


+1. I like what you said. These kinds of people are the reason why our energy consumption is so high. Oh, and you better be running something like Folding@Home if you're leaving your computer on 24/7 :P. Otherwise, do this. Turn off your computer when you leave for work. When you come home, the first thing you do is turn on your computer, then change into your comfortable clothes and go to the bathroom and do what you need. If you still need to wait some more, go get something to drink. Voila! What boot time? Instead of waiting for the computer to boot up, you spent your time doing other stuff.

quote:
I beg to differ. I own my own home, pay my utilities. I am comfortable in shorts and a tshirt - so if thats what I want to wear in the winter while footing the gas bill, then so be it. In the summer, I crank my central air down to about 65, and in the winter I jack the heat up to about 74. I get up and go to work 60+ hours per week so I can live a comfortable life at home - and energy efficiency, or sacrificing what I consider to be my affordable luxuries, is not a main concern.


Why the hell would you jack up the heat to 26C if you're going to wear a t-shirt and shorts in the winter? Why the hell are you wearing long sleeves and a jacket in the summer if you're going to lower to the thermostat to like 18C. That's just plain stupid.

There's also the fact that people excessively idle their cars in their driveways and parking lots when it's not required.

Oh, and don't forget about the people who keep their thermostat at a comfortable 22C in the summer or 24C in the winter when they're out for most of the day. There's a reason why thermostats are now programmable. Save yourself some money and use those programs. Just make the AC/heat run harder to get to your desired temperature 30 minutes before you get home, so that you will still be able to experience comfort and be able to relax.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 12:34:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Just make the AC/heat run harder to get to your desired temperature 30 minutes before you get home
That actually uses more energy than just leaving it at a constant temperature.


RE: It's more about habits
By sld on 5/14/2009 2:24:54 PM , Rating: 2
Then start the thermostat at the usual temp 30 mins before getting home. At least the temp will be halfway to the desired level when you step in the door.

Leaving the thermostat on the whole day is dumb, unless you can produce a thermal scan of your house from the outside proving that it is perfectly insulated.


RE: It's more about habits
By pequin06 on 5/14/2009 3:28:09 PM , Rating: 2
Why don't you prove it's dumb?
Why is up to the other person to prove it?
You disagree, you want to tell people how to live, you do the work.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 6:52:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Then start the thermostat at the usual temp 30 mins before getting home.
Uses more energy. Not to mention, if I turn the A/C off when I'm not home it takes WAY more than 30 minutes in the summer to cool the house to 78-80. I live in the desert and it takes longer to cool a house than in a more temperate climate. I've accidentally forgotten to turn on the A/C before. It also costs more money. I've run experiments before to test this and leaving your house set at one temp uses less energy.

I don't use the A/C very much anyways because I have a swamp cooler that's cheaper to operate but those only work well in dry climates. The A/C is only used when the humidity gets too high or I have guests.


RE: It's more about habits
By superkdogg on 5/14/2009 5:45:10 PM , Rating: 2
How can that be? Moving the temp from 60-68 in the winter one time after keeping it constant at 60 while you work is 8 degrees. So is the thermostat kicking in 8 times to move the needle 1 degree when it drops to 67. If your home isn't made with eleventy feet of Pink Panther, it takes more energy to maintain a constant temperature. That doesn't take into account the fact that more start/stop cycles eventually take a toll on a furnace blower the same as any other motor.


RE: It's more about habits
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 7:01:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
How can that be?
I does. Try it sometime. You'll need two months of similar temps and habits. Easy to do in my house. My wife and I don't change our habits much and our July and August temps are fairly similar. If I'm home all day during the summer on a 105-110 degree day, the A/C will kick in around noon time (varies and hour or so) and may kick in for a 1 minute at a time once or twice and hour. If I leave it off, the house temp will hit the high 80's. When I turn on the A/C to cool the house, it will run for 2 to 3 hours straight to cool the house to 78-80. What uses more energy again?

Even the utility companies where I live recommend that the thermostats be set to one temp to save energy during the summer but I've already proven that they are correct to myself.


RE: It's more about habits
By WW102 on 5/14/2009 2:33:32 PM , Rating: 2
If you use a dishwasher versus handwashing your dishes just to save time, then are you really any better? And your going to say yeah it actually uses less water and energy, blah blah blah, maybe if youre a retard and leave the hot going and no plug in the sink.


RE: It's more about habits
By foolsgambit11 on 5/15/2009 7:04:08 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder whether using an electric kettle or a gas stove is more efficient, original source to hot water. It takes a lot of power to heat water. The electric kettle may do it faster, but it does so by using a lot of wattage - wattage that must be generated and delivered via power cables, which introduces inefficiencies not present in direct combustion. The gas diffuses a lot of heat, but you can use a heat shield around the burner to minimize losses. Of course, the longer you're heating the water, the more heat the water gives up while it's heating. Then their are the efficiencies of gathering and delivering gas to your home versus producing electricity and delivering it to your home. Much of that would depend on where you live, and how the electricity is generated in your area.

I know that in my area, it's certainly cheaper to have a natural gas hot water heater than to have an electric hot water heater. Whether it's more energy efficient or not, I don't know.


I can see it now...
By mdogs444 on 5/14/2009 9:00:28 AM , Rating: 5
...the global warming fanatics new slogan to make everyone feel guilty:

"Charge an iPod, Kill a polar bear"

And in return I'd like to ask them - would you like your polar bear cooked medium or well with that electric plug in car?




RE: I can see it now...
By AlexWade on 5/14/2009 9:23:55 AM , Rating: 2
I would love to ask environmentalists why polar bear only go on the endangered species list when their populations started to explode.


RE: I can see it now...
By Smilin on 5/14/2009 12:34:28 PM , Rating: 2
I would love to know what you're talking about.


RE: I can see it now...
By Keeir on 5/14/2009 1:15:23 PM , Rating: 2
Unfortunetly, due to the cold and harsh conditions of the regions polar bears live in, there exists sketchy data for polar bear populations before the mid-1980s. The data we do have suggests that over the past 50 years polar bear population has been growing, at first quickly and then more slowly as an equilibrium point was being reached in the 90s. The population has been fairly stable recently with so significant evidence yet of a future decline.

Despite record highs in actual data, sentiment amoung those that live with Polar bear who believe numbers are increasing still, and no evidence of negative consquences of "climate change" yet, the Polar Bear was moved onto the Endanged Species List from "Least Concern". This is in my opinion (and others) an abuse of the Statusing tool. Endangered Species should actually be currently endangered where current population trends show significant and substained decline.


Efficiency vs. Total Consumption
By MrPeabody on 5/14/2009 9:22:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Even though consumers are using more energy-friendly appliances, more electronics are holding efficiency back further.


If I understand this report correctly, it says that we're being less efficient with our power usage because we're using more stuff that requires electricity. Aren't these measures of two different things?

I mean, if all I have is an Energy-Star-Whatever washing machine, then hey! I'm energy efficient. If I then go out and buy an Energy-Star-Whatever dryer, refrigerator, and dishwasher, my total energy consumption has just shot way up, because I just plugged in more stuff that needs electricity. But I'm still being energy efficient, aren't I?

If they'd said "more electronics are holding total energy conservation back" or something along those lines, maybe I wouldn't be so confused. Am I missing something?




RE: Efficiency vs. Total Consumption
By acase on 5/14/2009 11:23:14 AM , Rating: 2
I'm with you. I mean they are making everything electric now to help the environment. I have an electric weed eater and a battery powered leaf blower, etc. etc. so I wouldn't have to worry about gas prices, which is supposively supposed to help the environment too. So yah, I use a lot more electricity then I used to because I am doing a lot of the things they wanted us to, but now I am "inefficient" because I am using too much electricity? Screw your environment I'll be happy to go back to gas!


RE: Efficiency vs. Total Consumption
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 5/14/2009 12:31:42 PM , Rating: 2
Screw whose environment? Well, if it is not yours, it is going to be yours kids and their kids. Look at China.


RE: Efficiency vs. Total Consumption
By Spuke on 5/14/2009 1:03:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Screw whose environment? Well, if it is not yours, it is going to be yours kids and their kids. Look at China.
Still waiting for definitive proof that the environment is going to the crapper. All I hear is totally unqualified people telling others you MUST do what I say or you'll die.


By nixoofta on 5/17/2009 2:16:02 AM , Rating: 2
...and then your kids will die,....and then your kid's kids will die.

:P


By Chudilo on 5/14/2009 9:48:19 AM , Rating: 2
I have an HD DVR cable box from Time Warner cable.
It keeps swapping the last channel I was on even when it is off. so instead of adding like a few hundred megs of RAM to it, they decided to go the cheap way and keep the hard drive running at all times, that's about 15 watts. RAM swapping would've used a hundredth of that.




By rikulus on 5/14/2009 10:00:18 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, and not just DVR boxes, but regular Time Warner cable boxes. Switched "on" or switched "off", those things are pumping out some major heat. It pisses me off. I'm sure they could be redesigned to run at much lower power, but I'm also sure that is the last thing on Time Warner's mind.


By Xavier434 on 5/14/2009 11:23:55 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, part of this problem is irresponsible engineering. I am all for some regulated energy efficient standards as long as they don't go overboard and limit quality of performance. The regulations don't need to be permanent, but it would be a good idea for the time being until we find much more efficient ways of gathering energy.


By fic2 on 5/14/2009 12:59:56 PM , Rating: 2
Next gen DVR boxes coming real-soon-now will be Energy Star rated (I forget the exact specs though). The box sitting on my desk uses ~25W when in full power mode (not even warm to the touch). Haven't measured the low power mode, yet. It will also shutdown hard disk and tuners when it goes into standby. Also go into standby automatically based on conditions (no recordings, no user activity for X time, etc).

Totally agree with the current boxes - they just blank the video output when in standby.


Damn people
By FITCamaro on 5/14/2009 9:32:58 AM , Rating: 2
Wanting to live with a higher quality of living....

Rabble rabble rabble!!!




RE: Damn people
By captainpierce on 5/14/2009 10:45:35 AM , Rating: 2
It's time to be patriotic. Give up those electronics! You don't need them!


RE: Damn people
By FITCamaro on 5/14/2009 2:21:56 PM , Rating: 2
I just realized how terrible my grammar was there...


By Aloonatic on 5/14/2009 9:33:19 AM , Rating: 2
There are plenty of other industries that should be in the firing line but rarely, if ever, seem to be.

The dairy industry contributes greatly to "green houses gasses" that are released, all so we can have cheese and milk etc. If people really want to help the plant then reduce your dairy intake.

Then there's the fashion and beauty industries. Now we all appreciate what they do to make less than attractive girls more easy on the eye, but at what costs?

Fashion is essentially the antonym of recycling. Where recycling is the notion of taking something that you genuinely/reasonably think is used up and worthless and finding a new use for it or the materials. Whereas fashion takes something that is perfectly usable/serviceable and convinces the user that they should replace it. So many perfectly good clothes are thrown into land fill and replaced with other clothes that have been shipped around the world.

Why aren't people having a go at Vogue for promoting this gross waste? Not to mention the money wasted on face creams and such hat don't work which involve a lot of chemical process, extraction of water form the environment where they are manufactured and distract highly expensive and educated Drs and scientists from more honourable/knoble life saving pursuits.

All I ever hear is how electronics and the car are killing the planet, oh and I shouldn't have my heating on (tho I agree with the guy who say wearing shorts in the winter has a point of course) and not go on holiday.




That picture...
By nixoofta on 5/14/2009 1:41:21 PM , Rating: 2
Is that,..a router she's licking?

Eric Cartman: "Kenny! You're gonna let a girl put her mouth on your weiner!? You know how disgusting that is? Girls mouths are full of germs."

Eric Cartman: "Statistically speaking the most bacteria ridden place on the planet is the mouth of an American woman. And you're gonna let that near your penis!?"




Jevons Paradox
By deanx0r on 5/14/2009 1:52:32 PM , Rating: 2
I think the title and article were a bit misleading.

Both home appliances and electronic devices have become more and more efficient over the years. Energy efficiency is this amazing by-product of human ingenuity, but contrary to popular belief, one of his merits will not lead to lower energy consumption, quite the contrary, it increases the rate of consumption. This is what the Jevons Paradox states and has been proven true for the past 150 years.

It would be foolish to say that efficiency will save our climate, but at least it gives us more choices.




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