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JPR says Q4 2007 showed NVIDIA and Intel in virtual deadlock for desktop graphics

John Peddie Research (JPR) released a report of the estimated graphics shipments and supplier market share for the last quarter of 2007 encompassing the holidays. This is traditionally the best quarter for computer makers and suppliers due to holiday buying.

According to JPR total graphics shipments were up 106 million units representing a 17% increase over Q3 2007 and the biggest quarter to quarter increase in six years. Compared to Q4 2006 shipments were up a strong 27%.

The JPR numbers show that Intel held on to its top overall position with 41.1% of the graphics market with NVIDIA coming in second with 31.8% and ATI trailing in third with 22.8%. ATI’s 22.8% market share does represent an increase from the previous year when it held 19.19% of the market.

Intel is barely holding rival NVIDIA off on the desktop front with Intel claiming 37.7% of the desktop graphics market with NVIDIA nipping at its heels with 37.1% market share. ATI slipped to only 19% of the desktop graphics market. JPR says the desktop market grew by 8.3% in the quarter.

When it comes to notebook graphics Intel still holds the clear lead in market share with 47% of the market and ATI keeps its second place position with 29% of the market. NVIDIA sits in third place with 22.8% of the notebook market.

"The fourth quarter of 2007 was seasonally good, and saw significantly greater sequential growth from the 3rd quarter compared to last year. This is especially interesting since Q3 2007 was so good," said Dr. Jon Peddie, president of Jon Peddie Research in Tiburon, California. "The major growth in the desktop segments was for Mainstream and Value class add-in boards (AIBs) as is typical for the holiday period."

DailyTech also reported the JPR numbers for Q3 2007 in October of 2007.

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Incredible
By therealnickdanger on 2/1/2008 1:40:19 PM , Rating: 1
Despite people whining about lackluster DX10 performance and consoles continously stealing the limelight from PC gaming, the numbers sure paint a more positive outlook. I am suprised to see NVIDIA so close to Intel, though, very impressive.




RE: Incredible
By BansheeX on 2/1/2008 2:04:12 PM , Rating: 3
It's not whining, it's a reasoned observation that the PC has lost ground to the console model of era-based development. This growth in video card sales is a poor correlation. Video cards sales will always go up, the PC isn't just for gaming. Why don't you look at content sales where the PC is only 14% of the market and dropping?

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/01/30/pc_game_sa...


RE: Incredible
By FITCamaro on 2/1/2008 2:27:42 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly I'm starting to come around to the whole consoles being simpler for gaming thing. I've gotten a little tired of having to worry about my PC being up to date.

Yes the PC will be the superior platform for certain types of games for a good long while due to having more resources and more flexible control options. PC gaming certainly isn't going anywhere for a while either with MMOs being as popular as they are. But I think eventually MMOs will start to break into the console space. FFXII was a great game and played better on the PS2 than it did on the PC (granted I used a USB adapter to hook up a PS2 controller).

And one of the advantages for MMOs on a console is that its nearly impossible to cheat. You can't run background bot programs, you can't scan memory to see whats happening, etc. So I think MMOs eventually will break into the console space more and more.

There's just nothing better than getting to lay on your couch and play. And while yes you can hook up your PC to your TV, consoles do it better with more simplified control schemes typically. Which is why FFXII was so great. You could play a lot of the game with one hand.


RE: Incredible
By airsickmoth on 2/1/2008 3:30:01 PM , Rating: 5
What are you doing with the other hand while playing FFXII? I didn't realize Final Fantasy has transitioned into Hentai.


RE: Incredible
By BansheeX on 2/1/2008 4:10:44 PM , Rating: 3
Exactly, and I would take it even further than that. I don't see MS doing this and cannibalizing their PC dominance, but if Sony understood something, they could have done some serious damage to the PC gaming market by including a mouse/keyboard with every PS3 and encouraging RTS and FPS games to support it. That's the strategy that changes the perception of the console into something more encompassing, and eliminates one of the main reasons people still use a PC to play these types of competitive games. There's no reason why a PS3 can't be plopped on a desk and played with a keyboard/mouse like a PC. It all comes down to generating the incentive for developers and users to embrace it.


RE: Incredible
By RedStar on 2/2/2008 4:12:43 AM , Rating: 2
"There's no reason why a PS3 can't be plopped on a desk and played with a keyboard/mouse like a PC"

LOL sounds EXACTLY like a PC...as sony as said. So what would be the Point? Just keep the PC you already have that can do more :)

* Well unless you bought an anemic laptop that is.


RE: Incredible
By BansheeX on 2/2/2008 4:06:42 PM , Rating: 2
You just completely missed the point. The PC model is inferior in other ways, making it desirable to get the PS3 to supplant it.

With this generation of consoles making several important strides (netplay, automatic patching, HD resolutions, digital connections, mouse/keyboard support, linux support, downloadable content), many of the PC's longstanding advantages have been lost, and my faith in the PC as a gaming platform is in jeopardy. Let's look at some of the problems with PC gaming:

-Numerous different hardware combinations. Increases likelihood of bugs, makes bugs difficult to trace as OS, program, driver, hardware, or user error. Increases burden on developers and forces them to compromise graphical potential for increased sales (look at Crysis and its poor sales). It's a catch-22. Since most users don't have cutting edge hardware, they didn't buy the game. But unless someone comes out with a game that utilizes a new DirectX, there will be no incentive for gamers to upgrade their hardware. So even though PC gamers go around touting their latest greatest hardware, it takes years for even a few games to take true advantage of it. With consoles, transitions are more painless. Every seven years, someone like Sony will finalize an up-to-date hardware spec on which developers can focus to make the latest generation of games. It treats development as an era rather than a half-month penis-comparison fest.

-No gamepad standard. For the same reason that few RTS games ever appear on consoles, many genres like fighting games never appear on the PC. The ideal platform is one that supports and provides both a keyboard/mouse and gamepad peripheral. Sony with the PS3 is beginning to understand this and pushing mouse/keyboard support on genres that would benefit from it, but they've still let it be optional, which is a mistake. Look at Orange Box. Does it have mouse/keyboard support? No. Because Sony gave them the option. It needs to be forced in order to supplant PC gaming and get people to view the PS3 as a true replacement for normally exclusive PC genres.

-Online Cheating. This is a rampant problem in PC games, but a very difficult thing to pull off on consoles. I can't tell you how much more enjoyment I get out of beating people on a console, knowing that no one is wall hacking me, and then having no one accuse me of cheating, or coming back with cheats to grief me into leaving. It's pathetic and no one should have to deal with this stuff.

-Lack of standardized packaging. When the PS2 came out, everything shipped in a slim DVD case with the same slipcover markings. For years, PC games have been in a seemingly endless transition from giant wasteful cardboard boxes, to standardized small cardboard boxes, to durable double-sized plastic DVD cases with cardboard housings. Nobody wants to agree on a logo either. There seems to be a fetish with cardboard and a phobia of saving gamers shelf space. They even opted for the double-sized DVD case over the slim one. Why?

-Dreadfully slow adoption of new media standards. Look at how many games were released on multiple CDs despite DVD being fairly popular and drives being fairly cheap. Of course, the problem is that PC developers want to retain the extra sales of people who still only had CD drives. So they got their extra sales and made all the DVD drive owners sit there for thirty minutes swapping discs to install and search for the right disc every time they wanted to play. The same thing will happen for the DVD to blu-ray transition. Meanwhile, the console model with its single configuration can simply push the latest media format with ease. Since every PS3 has a blu-ray drive, it is immune to these transitional annoyances.

-Pirating. A huge problem on PCs and always has been. Developers lose sales, get paranoid and implement instrusive DRM like Starforce which afflicts PC usage on the whole. The PS3, with a simplified, restricted OS and a state-of-the art media format that has yet to be cracked and is currently expensive to create burns for, is in no immediate danger of succumbing to this scenario. This is also a major reason MMORPG development has exploded leaving traditional single player genres behind. Piracy is impossible when the game is online-based.


RE: Incredible
By vortex222 on 2/6/2008 6:38:33 AM , Rating: 2
the cost of ownership for a console is substantially less then a PC.... Us pc gamers enjoy the best experience in gaming but pay heap loads more for it.

A console is a $500 investment every couple of years for hardware. A PC is upto $500 just for a video card, or CPU+MB or whatever else. It is much more expensive if you pay the same for games in either case.

PC's have the advantage of Piracy but that has driven developers to consoles more then PC's.


RE: Incredible
By Davelo on 2/2/2008 7:59:56 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know about your idea that consoles are a simpler way to stay up to date with gaming. My kids have a pile of obsolete and useless game consoles in the closet and the new ones are only getting more expensive.


RE: Incredible
By FITCamaro on 2/3/2008 10:04:41 AM , Rating: 2
Yes but new consoles only come out every 4-5 years. New PC hardware comes out every 6-9 months. And you have to upgrade to stay current every 2-3 years and its far more expensive. Granted PC gaming has gotten cheaper in the past 6 months with memory being dirt cheap, processor prices dropping, and new high end video cards falling to the price slots of midrange cards 2-3 years ago.

But a $400 dollar investment that lasts you 4 years is $100 a year. In the same time with a PC you'll likely spend at least $800-1000 or so. About the only thing PC gaming has going for it is the prices for the games are cheaper now (which really kind of sucks for console owners since often times the PC version is better since it can have better graphics).


RE: Incredible
By Cygni on 2/1/2008 6:14:01 PM , Rating: 3
The facts do not support your assumptions.

1) Your Numbers. Those market numbers are wholly wrong for a vast number of reasons. One is the complete and absolute dominance of the MMORPG in the computer sector.... which isnt even calculated into the sales totals as they only calculate 'content sales'. World of Warcraft alone rakes in nearly $150 million in subscription fees per MONTH! And this doesn't even touch the countless other online worlds charging subscription fees.

Nor does it account for online sales, hugely popular thanks to Steam and D2D. I havent actually gone to a storefront to purchase a video game in nearly 3 years. Why would I need to?

And how about Piracy? Relying on sales from bigbox stores will simply not cut it anymore. Piracy will kill you if you don't offer some form of subscription multiplayer, or tracked download system to keep piracy from spreading. Thats just life. The PC is easier to manipulate than a Wii, 360, or PS3.

One final point is that a MAJORITY of console sales occur in a realm which doesn't even compete with the PC, or indeed the TV consoles themselves. Mobile gaming. The DS and PSP are the top selling consoles for their respective companies, and they have the highest games per system purchase rate of any consoles accounting for some 50% of the market.

2) Your Timeline. And when, exactly, was this mythical time of complete computer domination of the gaming scene? I seem to remember having an NES before i played QuakeGL. The fact is that consoles and true 'computer' gaming have ebbed and flowed for the last 20 years. Its not like the PC was ever the end all gaming device. There is no full scale downward trend.

3) Add in cards. In short, the increase in video card sales is NOT a poor correlation, as you stated. It is actually a very good correlation. The article states that Nvidia's increase in sales was due to their add in board market performance. Other than gaming, why would people be purchasing Nvidia add in boards? CAD/CAM and high end graphics editing dont exactly dominate the sales-scape...


RE: Incredible
By BansheeX on 2/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Incredible
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Incredible
By daBKLYNdoorman on 2/1/2008 2:21:05 PM , Rating: 2
I don't get it.


RE: Incredible
By FITCamaro on 2/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Incredible
By drinkmorejava on 2/1/2008 2:44:09 PM , Rating: 2
It's a bastardization of AMD and ATI meant to portray how horrible of a deal it turned out to be.


RE: Incredible
By jadeskye on 2/1/2008 2:21:55 PM , Rating: 2
Given the poor performance from both AMD's CPU and GPU departments since the inception of the core 2 duos by intel it's not that supprising.

But still, hopefully AMD is reading this on their conferance table today and thinking 'i want a piece of that pie'.

I'd like to see AMD make a come back of sorts, it would be good to have both the big CPU manufacturers competing for performance at a neck and neck state. which hasn't happened since i learned how to build my own PC, i would be very interested in that.


RE: Incredible
By Rookierookie on 2/1/2008 2:29:44 PM , Rating: 2
At least AMD is making some gains; I won't say that a 3.6% recovery is a bad thing.


RE: Incredible
By jadeskye on 2/1/2008 2:38:02 PM , Rating: 2
certainly not, they're deffinately on the right track.

what worries me is that you KNOW Nvidia already has their 9 series planned out and ready to go as soon as AMD drops anything on the market thats marginally threatening to their 8 series cards.


RE: Incredible
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/1/2008 2:48:13 PM , Rating: 1
nVidia is playing the same game Intel is playing (They learned from the best). They have the better cards hands down, and they are lining up to drop new cards the moment DAAMIT releases something new. R&D goes full force, but no need to switch manufacturing around too much until it becomes necessary.


RE: Incredible
By jadeskye on 2/1/2008 2:50:21 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Good for business, not so good for the enthusiast searching the net for something better then his 8800GT.

(although unless he's playing crysis on a 30 inch monitor he doesn't really have anything to worry about O_o)


RE: Incredible
By billybob24 on 2/1/2008 6:53:56 PM , Rating: 3
I think this theory that Nvidia is holding back completed cards waiting for ATI to come with something threatening is bullcrap. Every company in competition wants to KILL the opposition. Not wound but KILL if they get the chance. Obviously for Nvidia that would mean releasing faster cards if they had them.

I mean look, this report shows AMD making gains. And as of right now the argument can be made AMD is more on the ball than Nvidia, as AMD just released the 3870X2 and Nvidia is lagging with it's counterpart, even if it's just a month or two. In fact Nvidia is lagging with a whole slew of mid-range products as well I believe, all the counterparts to AMD's 3650-3450 line. This is the type of thing that's probably going to show up as more share losses for Nvidia in NEXT quarters report.


RE: Incredible
By AlphaVirus on 2/1/2008 3:00:27 PM , Rating: 3
Seriously I am so surprised that DAAMIT gained that market share despite all the negative ground is was on 2007. Perhaps it really was all hype, people just trying to jump on the anti-DAAMIT wagon.

I still support them because of prices :)
The AMD X2-5000 Black Edition can overclock to the speed of a X2-6400 on factory air cooling. And at a $100 price point, I think that is really good.

Also we have to remember DAAMIT was the choice for all three gaming consoles. XBOX 360, PS3, and Wii, all have some sort of component from them. With consoles pushing so heavily, they are smoothing out the revenue lost from the PC market perhaps.


RE: Incredible
By jkresh on 2/1/2008 3:41:32 PM , Rating: 2
IBM has parts in all 3 consoles (their cpus) but as far as I know ATI/AMD just has the gpu in the 360 and the wii, the gpu in the ps3 is nvidia and its cpu a is sony/toshiba/ibm design.


BTW
By billybob24 on 2/1/2008 7:03:25 PM , Rating: 4
The link to the John Peddie numbers leads to a confusing page where the numbers dont match what Dailytech is reporting at all..nor make any sense. For example, they have Nvidia at over 60% in one table, and Sis and Via at over 20%..add all the companies up and you get way more than 100% as well.

That linked report doesn't make sense..




Vista Effect
By TomZ on 2/1/2008 3:15:13 PM , Rating: 2
Funny the article and none of the comments have hypothesized the reason - I would suspect this gain is entirely due to Vista's release earlier in the year.




"If you can find a PS3 anywhere in North America that's been on shelves for more than five minutes, I'll give you 1,200 bucks for it." -- SCEA President Jack Tretton











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