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Apple's fans have sent the iPhone 4 to record sales -- 1.7 million units in 3 days -- despite problems which marred the launch.   (Source: The Apple Collection)
Customers seem willing to forgive reception issues and that Apple might be tracking their every move

Apple's iPhone 4 launched Thursday June 24 (some pre-orderers received their phones even earlier).  As was expected by the quick sell-out of pre-ordered stock available through AT&T, demand was high for the phone.

The allure of Apple's high-resolution Retina display and video messaging service FaceTime proved enough to lure customers in, despite some high profile concerns.  Over 1.7 million iPhones were sold within the first three days -- a new record.  Apple CEO Steven P. Jobs apologized to customers who were turned away, stating, "This is the most successful product launch in Apple’s history.  Even so, we apologize to those customers who were turned away because we did not have enough supply."

The phone's launch was marred by several issues.  Screen yellowing was reported, though this appears to be an adhesive issue that would naturally disappear after use.  Much more serious concerns, however, are the reports of reception issues when holding the phone normally and problems with the proximity sensor.  Apple has dismissed the signal issues, with Jobs first saying that customers were "holding it wrong" and then helpfully announcing: "There are no reception issues."

Apple's phone does, however, offer many other compelling improvements.  It uses stronger glass that's more scratch and break-resistant.  And it increases processing power over the previous generation, by using its new A4 processor, a system-on-a-chip based on a Samsung Cortex core -- all while offering better battery life.  It also adds HD 720p video recording via a new and improved 5 MP camera, which finally includes an LED flash.

On the OS side, multi-tasking has finally landed on the iPhone.  And better enterprise support also has been added.

Stock of iPhone 4s is currently limited.  The iPhone is available for $199 USD for the 16GB model and $299 USD for the 32GB model in both Apple and AT&T’s retail and online stores, Best Buy, Radio Shack, and Walmart stores.  

Internationally, the phone is currently available to customers in the UK, France, Germany, and Japan.  An international launch to 18 countries -- Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, Hong Kong, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland -- will complete by the end of July.



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So, about that economic trouble...
By gamerk2 on 6/28/2010 11:31:45 AM , Rating: 5
I don't want to hear another word about "economic trouble" in the US; if that many people can afford the "next big thing", then its obvious we have no economic problems whatsoever.




RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 11:37:36 AM , Rating: 5
Stupidity knows no boundaries. The sheer idiocy of Apple consumers doesn't just border on the ridiculous - it has invaded and annexed the surrounding territories.

This article does NOTHING other than demonstrate how many utterly foolish people there are in this world. Lining up to pay out the ass for a phone that doesn't f#cking work.

All we can do is hope they don't procreate.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Tony Swash on 6/28/10, Rating: 0
RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 11:59:24 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
When you find yourself arguing that the rest of the world is stupid it's probably time to reconsider.


That's a horrible strawman. VAST numbers of people are doing something *really* important *really* wrong.

There's what, a billion Christians in the world? And 1.5 billion Muslims? Something like that. At the very least, one of those massive groups is totally wrong - and the utter lack of any evidence to support any religion at all demonstrates that they are actually both wrong.

Also, how many freaking people watch Oprah? Or believe in homeopathy/astrology/antivax/whatever?

No...there is no value AT ALL in appealing to the "smartness" of a large population. Indeed, it has been my observation that the relative IQ of a group of people frequently varies inversely with it's population.

As for them opening the box and being disappointed...if an Apple consumer opened their fruit-themed box and found a grenade which then blew up and killed them, they'd die completely satisfied.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Tony Swash on 6/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 12:38:17 PM , Rating: 5
You may believe that if you wish.

However, all available evidence points to the fact that Apple consumers are simply uncritical people swayed by propaganda to the degree that they willingly purchase products known to be wildly overpriced, under-featured, and flat-out defective.

Case in point: the number of people trying to defend the new iPhone's moronic, catastrophic call-dropping defect if you "hold it wrong." The very concept that there can, in any possible reality, be a "wrong" way to hold a phone is so utterly stupid, that to ascribe to that concept is to bely your own stupidity.

Not ignorance. Stupidity.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 12:54:30 PM , Rating: 5
I bash everybody that does something stupid - including MS or whoever else. You just don't pay attention to anything other than Apple crap - like a true Macolyte.

Also - you have ONCE AGAIN demonstrated your utter failure at life by trying to defend Apple for its "minor problems." A phone that has a "wrong way" to hold it such that it then won't make phone calls isn't a "minor problem." It's a catastrophic design flaw that makes the device useless for it's primary function.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By stromgald30 on 6/28/2010 1:11:38 PM , Rating: 2
1.7 million in 3 days . . . and how long will that last? Android trucks along with a steady 160k per day.

Considering that Android is gaining market share much faster than the iPhone, I'm willing to bet that the average iPhone sales day is quite a bit less than 160k. The market share numbers are proving that the overall iPhone product is inferior to the Android phones.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By aharris on 6/28/2010 2:24:22 PM , Rating: 2
1) Apple is going to release the iPhone to 18 more countries by the end of July. Because users of the iPhone don't usually consider substitutions to be an option (why else would they stick with AT&T?), the demand for their product will ride the wave until it's fully met, which at this production rate will take quite some time.

2) Apple has always taken a "one option via closed systems" stance on products. Some of the biggest criticism they've taken over their computers in the past is that their hardware consists of closed systems, whereas Microsoft has versatile, open systems designed to appease most of the computing market. Contrary to what many believe, that's not a fault of Apple's, it's one of the company's major strengths.

If you recall back in the 90s Apple opened up its OS to third party companies (ala Microsoft Windows) and Apple Inc almost went bankrupt. The first change Steve Jobs made when he resumed as Lord and Savior of Apple Inc was to close the OS to third party hardware manufacturers. Since, their computing division and the rest of the company have been profitable.

Now when you put that into perspective, it's easy to see that the current war waging between Apple's iPhone and Google's Android is no different from Apple's battle with Microsoft. Apple will continue to have multitudes purchase their phone, while Google will follow in Microsoft's footsteps by placing their versatile OS on a variety of hardware platforms.

TLDR: Apple is best at producing closed systems products. Google & Microsoft are best at producing versatile systems for multiple hardware platforms. The sales numbers are indicative of each company's product strategy, not superiority or inferiority.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By The Raven on 6/28/2010 2:47:44 PM , Rating: 2
Well you are right that Macs are good for some things and Windows based PCs are good for others. But I don't get why you think that any of your statements showcase Apple's strengths.

Re: 90s:
Apple opens up its OS and nearly goes bankrupt? Yeah, it makes perfect sense that on a level playing field, the inferior product would tank.

Re: Apple is best at producing closed systems products
Umm yeah it is like saying that Sony is best at making PS3 game disc players. And that is one big reason why Apple is not on top of MS. But then again. What do they care when people are willing to pay what they pay for Apple products? Less sales and more profit = just as much take home.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/10, Rating: 0
RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By stromgald30 on 6/28/2010 3:43:03 PM , Rating: 2
How does that mean anything? Market cap is a poor measure of dominance in a market because it's subject to speculative inflation. Look at the market-share.

The only market that Apple has been successful in controlling is MP3 players. Laptops, PCs, and now phones, they're just a small niche sector of the overall market.

You really need to brush up on your financial understanding and argumentation skills . . .


By Pirks on 6/28/2010 4:24:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
How does that mean anything? Look at the market-share.
How does market share mean anything? Look at profit margin. Did you ever try to compare Apple profit margin with cheapo PC OEM profit margins?


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By aharris on 6/28/2010 3:33:48 PM , Rating: 2
A speed linebacker doesn't play like a strength linebacker, and vice versa.

Apple learned in the 90s what they're good at, and they've capitalized on it (in every sense of the word) ever since.

Did you ever consider the flipside: Why hasn't Microsoft ever made a closed platform Windows OS? Probably because they'd be setting themselves up for failure. It's not what the company is set up to exceed at, just like Apple was never set up to create a varied-platform OS.

Now I know DT readers are extremely reluctant to give Apple any form of credit whatsoever. I mean even I never thought Apple could be as profitable as Microsoft by creating closed-platform products. It just never made sense to me. However, within the confines of this specific arena, they have succeeded vastly beyond most peoples' expectations, and you choosing to deny it doesn't change the fact that it's still true.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/10, Rating: 0
RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 3:48:29 PM , Rating: 3
...for what possible reason would the 95% marketshare holder want to follow the 4% marketshare holder? Besides learning how to fail to be a significant player in the market, that is...


By aharris on 6/28/2010 4:15:24 PM , Rating: 2
Wait, why are you here? Aren't there economy cars that need bullying out on the highways?


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/10, Rating: 0
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 4:34:46 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft doesn't make computers. I don't think they care to.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By aharris on 6/28/2010 3:54:10 PM , Rating: 2
I agree that they did something like this with the Xbox 360, and that thought definitely crossed my mind.

That said, you can't possibly compare gaming consoles to operating systems because gaming consoles are by [current industry] nature closed platforms, and operating systems (including OS X) can facilitate some of the same functions of gaming consoles.

Xbox 360 vs Apple OS X = Granulated Sugar vs Chocolate Cake.


By Pirks on 6/28/2010 4:38:46 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That said, you can't possibly compare gaming consoles to operating systems because gaming consoles are by nature closed platforms, and operating systems can facilitate some of the same functions of gaming consoles.
True, but there's a growing trend of the computers being humanized (AKA dumbed down) and Apple leads this trend, in this new humanized computer industry closed systems rule the day 'cause they have best user experience (naturally). It's only natural then to note this trend and try to ride it early by introducing your own closed system computer, similar to iMac and/or MacBook. Something unique that other PC OEMs can't do. Something with unique Mac-like battery life or something. Think Windows notebook that can last longer than MacBook, has faster hardware, better build quality, less size/thickness/weight, stuff like that. But MS can't do this, sadly. Their attempts at hardware design failed so far, except for their mice. Sigh.

I think this won't happen, not with MS for sure. We need some other company, but I don't see anyone who can beat Apple at their game. Maybe because it's impossible on principle, for physical reasons, like Apple already squeezes everything out of current hardware and you physically can't do better than them...


By mellomonk on 6/28/2010 4:05:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
They did something like this with Xbox and it was hardly a failure. Your argument is invalid then.


Well actually, when you look at it from a business perspective, the Xbox can hardly be called a success either. Sure, it has sold in vast numbers and created a thriving eco system, but it has been outsold by rivals in each generation, struggled in several overseas market, & been plagued with hardware failures that have cost in excess of $1b. In fact that division of MS has only turned a profit in some 3 quarters in the past 8 years.


By The Raven on 6/30/2010 10:38:44 AM , Rating: 2
I deny nothing, Willis.

You said...
quote:
Now I know DT readers are extremely reluctant to give Apple any form of credit whatsoever.
...in response to what I said:
quote:
Well you are right that Macs are good for some things and Windows based PCs are good for others.
I can't understand why Apple fans don't understand how someone can possibly think that their products are overhyped and overpriced. Personally I can't stand it when people look at Apple as THE alternative to MS. Yes it is an alternative, but it is just another MS. That is to say Apple is just another company trying to make money like MS. And that is why I'm a "fan" of neither. Go FOSS or go home.

quote:
What do they care when people are willing to pay what they pay for Apple products? Less sales and more profit = just as much take home.
This is how Apple is profitable. This is how Ferrari is profitable. Neither have the market bull by the horns. But I don't fear failure for either of them. They will continue to make money. But neither leads their respective industries in units sold.

For what it is worth, I think that MS is more likely to go under than Apple since they are SW based and don't make HW. When FOSS gets up to speed and the ceiling is hit (as far as what the OS needs to do) Apple will be there selling PCs with Ubuntu preinstalled. Jobs will still be in his black three-quarter-sleeve mock turtleneck, while Ballmer will be shirtless.


By stromgald30 on 6/28/2010 3:37:30 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. I probably should've put quotes around the inferior since the iPhone does have superior battery life and other nice attributes. My response was more of a rebuttal to Pirk's claim that the 1.7 million in initial sales proves the iPhone's problems are 'minor'.

IMO, the iPhone will be relegated to a niche part of the market much like the MacBookPros and the iMac because of their closed architecture. They may perform better in some areas because Apple has full control of the system, but they can't dominante a market without something special (i.e. what iTunes did for iPods).


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By bighairycamel on 6/28/2010 1:41:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Where did you bash any Google or Nokia phone or something like it? Gimme some links please.
First provide links that another manufacturer has had design flaws on the same level. And then provide links that they denied it as a flaw and told they consumer "you're using it wrong".


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/2010 2:28:18 PM , Rating: 2
By aharris on 6/28/2010 3:36:36 PM , Rating: 2
Haha

Pure win.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Aloonatic on 6/29/2010 5:11:10 AM , Rating: 2
The differences are.:

The phone still works, just has a loss of signal (not total loss as appears to happen with the iPhone) and it uses more power. Also, that wasn't the one and only phone that Nokia were producing at the time (other than its direct predecessor), nor did they describe it as "magical" and all that other guff, and they are not a company with a well known for a tag line of "it just works".

All of which make this somewhat different, not that anyone here expects you to see that. What next? Nokias lose signal when going through tunnels, so they are just as bad? That seemed to be just a common sense description of how someone's hand affects an internal antenna, which I would wager is true of 99% of phones on the market today, and nothing like the loss of signal that the iPhone4 is suffering.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/29/2010 11:54:04 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
loss of signal that the iPhone4 is suffering
Like this? -> http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/the-jimmy-fallo...


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Aloonatic on 6/30/2010 4:56:50 AM , Rating: 2
So a right handed guy, holding the phone in his right hand didn't have any problems making calls? Well, drum roll please....

That was never the issue.

What test will they do next? iPad over heating tests carried out in the wilds of Alaska at mid winter, to prove conclusively that it doesn't have a problem when it gets warm?


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/30/2010 10:42:07 AM , Rating: 1
Loonatic, now you imply that Alaska is populated by righties where the rest of the world is populated by lefties :))) Funny.


By Aloonatic on 7/1/2010 5:02:56 AM , Rating: 2
What? How does what hand you hold an iPad in matter to how warm it gets?

I used to feel sorry for you on here, as you comments got leapt on whatever you said, even when you made a good point, but now I get it, and see that you are just a sad lonely person looking for attention.


By LRonaldHubbs on 6/28/2010 8:26:10 PM , Rating: 2
Damn, Motoman is on a roll today. Excellent points, sir.


By tallcool1 on 6/29/2010 3:09:06 PM , Rating: 3
This is no different than people whom defended the original Xbox 360 despite its very high hardware failure rates.

They are willing to put up with these short comings because of its available software and/or user experience (when it works).


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By stromgald30 on 6/28/2010 1:06:08 PM , Rating: 2
Nobody's saying Windows and Android isn't without its flaws. However, you don't have hundreds of thousands of people going after a new product that isn't that much better than the competition.

And before you go on and on espousing the great features of the iPhone, please keep in mind that this isn't just about great features, its about price as well. Even though Mercedes puts out much better products than Chevrolet, you don't see people lining up for new Mercedes designs do you?

That's why all the Mac fanatics going after every new Mac release like the iPhone4 and iPad can be considered having more money than common sense.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Ard on 6/28/2010 1:15:14 PM , Rating: 2
Not being much better than the competition is largely a subjective call if you're speaking about features. From an objective point of view regarding the hardware, I'd say the iPhone 4 is the current device to beat. It won't take long given the way the market works, and the Epic 4G might have already done it, but I think it's fairly clear that they're the current leader.

Price is also a non-issue in this discussion since any quality smartphone is going to cost you $200 w/2-yr contract. That's not something unique to the iPhone. Both the Droid Incredible and the HTC EVO (and I imagine the same will go for the Epic 4G) cost $200 w/2-yr contract, so I fail to see how buying an iPhone means you have more money than sense. Now, if we were talking about other Apple devices (*cough* MacBooks & iMacs *cough*), then I would absolutely agree with your point.


By Pirks on 6/28/2010 2:37:28 PM , Rating: 2
Well, MacBooks still have the luxury of having the longest battery life among all full speed (non-ULV) i5/C2D based notebooks, so you can't really say people buying them have no sense, 'cause for a lot of people having BOTH fastest mobile CPU and best battery life in this class is pretty important NO MATTER THE BRAND. I'm sure people would buy other notebooks in droves if they were displaying similar blend of characteristics as MB and MBP. It's just that only Apple makes those at the moment.


By Aloonatic on 6/29/2010 5:18:07 AM , Rating: 2
Re pricing:

How are they sold in the US? In the UK, you'll find that the iPhone;

a) Costs more upfront. Granted, not by a lot, still in the same ball park, but definately more.

b) The contracts are terrible. You get completely gouged on your monthly fees, allowances and lengths of contracts. Not to mention the "tethering" nonsense, and now the internet usage caps.

iPhones do cost more, both in the shop when you buy it and on your monthly statement. Of course, many people don't pay a great deal of attention to their monthly statements which is why iPhones are so popular with retailers/phone providers too. Indeed, many iPhone users are kids who don;t even see their monthly bills.

Indeed, they've done a great job building on their iPod youth market with the iPhone, kudos.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Ard on 6/28/2010 1:07:18 PM , Rating: 1
Ahh, the anti-Apple crowd is at it again. Where exactly is all this "evidence" you speak of that clearly, and convincingly, indicts all Apple consumers? And, in case it's not clear, I bold "all" because you never say some, or a fraction of; rather, you simply blanket anyone who buys Apple products. So, produce the evidence you speak of or forever stfu and resign yourself to being nothing more than a troll, which we all know you are anyway.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 1:17:40 PM , Rating: 4
Negative.

DT, and the rest of the internet, is absolutely littered with evidence of how Apple products are:

1. Wildly overpriced
2. Missing obvious features
3. Of poor quality

Etc. This is the only reply you're going to get. You categorically do not have the privilege of demanding that every past bit of information get brought back up every time, the way Pirks demands. This evidence has been presented in the past, ad nauseum, and you don't get to pretend it didn't happen.

Therefore, STFU and get back to milking Steve Jobs.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Ard on 6/28/2010 1:31:38 PM , Rating: 1
Thank you for proving my point that you don't have any evidence at all. Pointing and saying 'the evidence is all around you' is not evidence at all.

1. Show me that the iPhone is overpriced compared to other smartphones. You can't. The Droid/Incredible/EVO/Pre are/were priced similarly.

2. Show me that the iPhone is missing "obvious features" compared to other smartphones. You can't. The Droid/Incredible/EVO/Pre all had features missing at the outset based on the version of Android they were running.

3. Show me that the iPhone is "of poor quality" compared to other smartphones. You can't. The Droid/Incredible/EVO/Pre all suffered from problems at launch.

I've done my job. You're a troll, Motoman, through and through. Go back to your hole and, please, do us all a favor and never come out. Oh, and one last thing: since you unequivocally failed like I expected you would: stfu!


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Iaiken on 6/28/2010 5:29:42 PM , Rating: 4
I hate to speak up in defense of Motoman, but the evidence of apple products being, overpriced, feature deprived and of low quality are pretty rampant in both technology journalism and support forums.

The problem is that Moto simply doesn't have the will or the energy to go digging through all the articles, findings and support issues to quantify an answer that would satisfy you because you have made up your mind.

That's also why you fall back on your "ha ha, you have no evidence because I can't be bothered to look for myself!". All this demonstrates is that you are at best lazy and at worst horribly ignorant.

I'll give you a short list:

- OSX update that killed people's WiFi
- Some Mac keyboards work ONLY with the type of Mac they were sold with.
- OS updates that bricked ligit iPhones and iTouches
- Screen lines in 17" Powerbooks
- Yellowing screens in 24" iMacs
- Laptops that scalded peoples laps and hands
- Melting power connectors
- Phone's that can't make phone calls if you hold them like a phone
- Random shut downs and reboots of MacBooks
- Apple deletes support threads from apple.com forums so that it looks like there are fewer issues than there actually are.
- Apple routinely goes after and shuts down 3rd party support forums/wiki's.

But you're right, everything is A-OK with every Apple product because you say so. :P


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/2010 5:54:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I'll give you a short list
List of PC problems would be WAAAAY WAAAAY WAAAY longer, starting from my Gateway P-173X notebook that failed after one month (GPU heatsink just fell off, haha), and the lousy audio driver in my Alienware M17 that starts jittering and losing audio frames afrter a few system sleeps/wakeups, and my Dell Vostro wireless that just lost connection permanently when I changed my WAP to Thompson box my new ISP gave me, and so on and so forth etc etc etc....

Now what? :) Sorry, I don't see any point in your post. PCs are bug/problem ridden even more than Macs, why even post all this?? I'm baffled. I still use all my four home PCs even with all these stupid bugs/problems 'cause I got used to them, these bugs are normal for WinPCs ya know. These bugs CHANGE NOTHING, both on Mac and on PC side. Too bad you won't grow up and understand this :-(


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Iaiken on 6/28/2010 10:03:24 PM , Rating: 3
Considering the hundreds of trillions of hardware configurations that Windows has to deal with out in the wild, I think they make out pretty damned well.

Hell, I was able to write a USB driver for my friggen PS3 controller with nothing more than the C compiler.

The device diversity on PC is simply mind blowing compared to Macworld where the scant several hundred "vetted for OSX" hardware configurations are still prone to bugs and problems. You're proselytized "closed platform savior" has only saved you from having money to spend on other better things.

:P


By Pirks on 6/29/2010 1:45:44 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Considering the hundreds of trillions of hardware configurations that Windows has to deal with out in the wild, I think they make out pretty damned well
Well? How having more bugs/problems than closed competition is "well"? It's not well at all. From the point of view of an average consumer, not a techie.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Tony Swash on 6/28/2010 1:11:25 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Case in point: the number of people trying to defend the new iPhone's moronic, catastrophic call-dropping defect if you "hold it wrong." The very concept that there can, in any possible reality, be a "wrong" way to hold a phone is so utterly stupid, that to ascribe to that concept is to bely your own stupidity.


You do know about this don't you?

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thre...


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 1:19:43 PM , Rating: 2
I have heard of it. And it is also a stupid design flaw, and I would strongly suggest that no one buy that phone because of it.

...and if anyone comes out trying to defend that phone as being "fine," and just don't "hold it wrong" or "just spend another $30 for a case and it won't happen" then they are an idiot.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/2010 2:55:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I have heard of it. And it is also a stupid design flaw, and I would strongly suggest that no one buy that phone because of it.
Eat this: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/28/nokia-muses-on-...

Now start bashing all the Nokia phones... or, otherwise, "You're a troll through and through" (C) Ard

'Nuff said.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 3:06:21 PM , Rating: 2
Any phone that causes the signal to be lost upon holding it in an "incorrect" manner has a massive design flaw and should not be purchased.

I have no information that demonstrates that this applies to *all* Nokia phones.

It does, however, apply to the new iPhone, which is the topic of this thread. Once again, as you perpetually fail to comprehend, what any other product does or does not do, whether a similar device or not, has NO BEARING on the failings of any other device.

If *every* Nokia phone carried the plague, ass-raped your dog, and hacked into your CCs and bankrupted you, the new iPhone would still be a dismal failure.

Your efforts at misdirection are a failure. As always.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/2010 3:42:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I have no information that demonstrates that this applies to *all* Nokia phones
And you have no information that *all* phones except iPhone 4 are free from antenna problems, in fact if you think it's very similar in all the phones because all of them have small antennas inside and hence all of them have the same issue with weaker reception when you hold them. iPhone 4 is not an exception, it's JUST LIKE ANY OTHER PHONE in this sense, a few people got problems, but which flagship smartphone was ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT minor problems at launch AT ALL?


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 3:54:54 PM , Rating: 2
Which flagship phones were shipped with a defect so massive that simply holding it makes it not work, only to have the CEO tell people they're holding it wrong, and then a day later declare that there actually is no reception problem?

Oh. Just one.

I am sure that not all non-iPhones have massive defects such that simply holding them causes you to lose calls. There's at least that one Android phone that someone posted a link to. I am also sure that the vast majority of cell phones do not have such defects.

...and I am also sure of the fact that, AGAIN, what some other product does or does not do has NO BEARING on the fact that the iPhone is horrifically deficient.

You are proving nothing by trying to bring up comparisons to other products. If some other phone exhibits the same exact issue, then guess what - it sucks too! That fact, however, does nothing to address the original issue, which is that the iPhone sucks.

Your problem is you are the definition of insanity. You keep trying the same misdirection tactic over and over expecting it to work out for you at some point. It won't.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/2010 5:12:49 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Which flagship phones were shipped with a defect so massive that simply holding it makes it not work JUST FOR A FEW UNLUCKY PEOPLE, only to have the CEO tell people they're holding it wrong, and then a day later declare that there actually is no reception problem FOR MOST PEOPLE?
Oh. Just one.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 5:24:38 PM , Rating: 3
The fact that you believe your own BS is all the proof anyone who hasn't already had a neuralectomy needs to see that you're an abject failure.

You're such a retard.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Pirks on 6/28/10, Rating: 0
RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 8:45:48 PM , Rating: 3
I'm tired of trying to get you to confront reality. Facts are of no concern to you. So why bother rehashing them all the time? You're like the Black Knight...

Pirks: Come back here and fight!
Moto: Your leg's off!
Pirks: No it isn't!
Moto: Yes it is!
Pirks: ...it's just a flesh wound.

My statement about you being retarded really isn't a personal attack. It's a statement of fact. You lack higher reasoning functions. Period.


By Pirks on 6/29/2010 1:01:36 PM , Rating: 1
RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By bplewis24 on 6/28/2010 1:11:57 PM , Rating: 2
The flaw in your logic is that you have considered no "irrationality test" or "hypocrite test."

It's a very simple test. If you want to find the reconciliation between Moto's proposition and your own, simply consider the fact that there are several comparable devices currently on the market that any objective person would find does just as good a job--or in many cases a better job--at meeting the needs of the consumer, yet receive half the hype, fanfare, sales and attention that the Apple iDevices do.

If your logic (that meeting the consumer needs directly correlates to consumer sales) held true, then all of these other devices would have at least as much market share as Apple does. Yet, none of these other devices can sell 1.7 million units in one weekend. How do you account for that reason? If you have an answer for that, you'll be well on your way to an epiphany.

Brandon


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Ard on 6/28/2010 1:24:59 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yet, none of these other devices can sell 1.7 million units in one weekend. How do you account for that reason?


You answered the question yourself:

quote:
There are several comparable devices currently on the market that any objective person would find does just as good a job--or in many cases a better job--at meeting the needs of the consumer, yet receive half the hype, fanfare, sales and attention that the Apple iDevices do.


How is the ordinary consumer to know what else is out there if the device isn't hyped up or marketed? It doesn't matter if HTC/Google creates a phone that is objectively leaps and bounds beyond the iPhone if no one knows about it.

Apple simply does an incredible job of marketing their devices. Couple that with the fact that those devices are, generally, considered as good as, or better than in certain instances, the competition and you have your answer as to why other manufacturers don't have the market share of Apple. And that answer doesn't refute the point that the majority (to say all is foolish because there are undoubtedly people who purchased the device simply to be "cool") of those consumers have decided the iPhone meets their needs, functionally and aesthetically.


By subhajit on 6/28/2010 2:19:47 PM , Rating: 1
So, what do you say about waiting on the streets for a week for getting a new iphone? Do you think lure of retina display can drive SANE people to such madness?


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By W00dmann on 6/28/2010 3:30:06 PM , Rating: 2
Why rate Tony down? Seems to me he's making a purely logical argument, not a passionate one. Surely we can debate these issues civilly?


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Tony Swash on 6/28/2010 6:20:03 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Why rate Tony down? Seems to me he's making a purely logical argument, not a passionate one. Surely we can debate these issues civilly?


I also find the posturing and name calling all a bit adolescent and uncivil.

It seems to me if you are interested in the world of technology then there are a few really interesting questions around and it would be nice to debate them in a civil and intelligent fashion, so we can all help each understand the complex answers to the big tech questions.

The sort of big questions I am interested in are:

Why has Microsoft been so inept in the last decade relation to new markets and capitalising on new tech trends and developments?

Following Google's explosion into the world of technology what will be its longer term impact, what are the strengths and weaknesses of Googles approach?

How did Apple come back from the dead and end up being such a dominate and successful player in so many new areas, what's special about Apple's approach to product development and why is it so successful?.

These are all big and complex problems and I am sure there are lots of people here who could have a lot of incisive and interesting things to say on these topics. Unfortunately although we might manage to have a debate about MS or Google with a reasonable degree of thoughtful mature contents when it comes to debating Apple a lot of people seem to become a little deranged. The result is that a question like "what so special about the way Apple develops its product designs", a really interesting question, is drowned out by endless shouting about how Apple's customers are all idiots because the products are crap. Such facile posturing is tedious and it devalues the debate on this forum.

Its a shame really. I am not looking for people who agree with me about how Apple or anything else works - I am just looking for people with something interesting to say.

quote:
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.... After you’ve not fooled yourself, it’s easy not to fool other scientists. You just have to be honest in a conventional way after that.
Richard Feynman:


Now I must finishing packing and get to the airport.


By Pirks on 6/29/2010 1:57:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I am just looking for people with something interesting to say
Go to Ars forums then, nothing to do here in WinPC zombieland. Ars readers are waay smarter than crowds of local idiots like Moto, chicko etc etc


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By jonmcc33 on 6/28/2010 3:31:13 PM , Rating: 2
You forgot to mention the Scientology nuts. They invented their own religion based upon space aliens.


By Motoman on 6/28/2010 4:28:47 PM , Rating: 1
All religions were invented by people.

And while the Scientologists are definitely among the most whacko of the whackos, at least with their sci-fi roots they have a reasonable excuse to run around playing Star Wars going "pew pew!"


By Aloonatic on 6/29/2010 5:26:13 AM , Rating: 2
Well, most gods come from somewhere other than Earth, so I guess God is an alien too. Making Jebus some kind of alien human hybrid, who's sole apparently lives on in all of us...


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By reader1 on 6/28/10, Rating: -1
By themaster08 on 6/28/2010 12:09:50 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
food is bad and we shouldn't eat.
Not we, just you.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By kmmatney on 6/28/2010 12:52:39 PM , Rating: 2
In the case of several people I know getting the new iPhone, it cost them nothing and/or they make a profit by upgrading. You can buy the new iPhone for $199, and sell the old 3G or 3GS phones for the same or more.

Most of the people I know (including me) use the iPhone as a work phone, and the costs our covered by our employer. At my company, we have the option to buy the phones ourselves, and just have the service cost covered. Once you buy the initial phone, the upgrades are essentially free (or even profitable) if you sell the old phone.


By kmmatney on 6/28/2010 1:12:26 PM , Rating: 2
I am curious to see what Apple is going to do, though, about the reception issue, especially since people have 30 days to return their phones. My guess is that they knew about this problem, since they made rubber bumpers for this phone, while they've never made any sort of cover for phones in the past. They should at least give free bumpers out. I really can't see how they can ignore this problem for long. I do like Apple consumer products (not their computers) but Jobs is an arrogant bastard.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By Aloonatic on 6/29/2010 5:39:18 AM , Rating: 2
Who the hell is buying an iPhone 3G? Maaaaybe a 3GS, maybe, but an iPhone 3G? Really???

The thing is, the truth behind most of these threads/arguments is...

A lot of people buy iPhones and are happy with them. So much so, they keep on coming back for more. The same people almost certainly know no better, for now, which plays a big part in why they keep coming back too, but they are undeniably satisfied customers for the most part, so well done Apple.

The iPhone was a great product to many, and it confuses many people here how big a psychological impact it had on people.

The only thing close to it that I can see that is remotely comparable is the affect that Halo had on the console gaming community. All us PC gamers had been playing FPS for a while. Quake, Half Life and Unreal etc. Yes, console gamers had Golden Eye, but it was a relatively small and narrow movie tie-in game really. When Halo came along it took something that had been available to many, that they were somewhat familiar with, and built on it spectacularly and delivered it in a simple, easy to access console game. It blew many people away, so much so that it made the xBox a must have for many people, and has played a not insignificant part in the loyalty that has been shown to MS during their hardware problems with the xBox 360, as it was their "first love" and opened their eyes to a brave new FPS world.

The iPhone wasn't the first smart phone, but it was the first that the general public could get to grips with easily and it truly empowered them, without having to look like a geek with a stylus, or having to get a computer/tech savy friend to set it up, sync and make changes on etc. Never underestimate the strength of someone first love.


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By xti on 6/29/2010 11:49:01 AM , Rating: 2
i just ebayed my 3G for 20 bucks less than i paid for the iphone4. it happens.

next time though, i will be sure to get everyones approval before i spend my money. MY BAD.


By Aloonatic on 6/30/2010 4:52:36 AM , Rating: 2
I hope that you passed on the buyers details to the correct medical authorities, so that they can get the help that they need :-D

As for you spending your money on what you want. I never said that you shouldn't, in fact I said that there are many reasons why people do, and it's not just Apple customers who behave in the same way. It extends over different markets and different companies, and if that's what you want and like, then go for the gusto :-D


By Iaiken on 6/28/2010 11:38:48 AM , Rating: 3
I couldn't agree more.

This whole recession must be BS if half a percentage point of the American population can afford new iPhones.

Add that Americans typically don't live within their means as they play "Keeping up with the Joneses" and I'm surprised that they didn't buy more.

What? Mr Jones bought one for his wife? I'LL TAKE THREE!!!


RE: So, about that economic trouble...
By ApfDaMan on 6/28/2010 11:56:06 AM , Rating: 2
Thats because the apple lovers are willing to go without food for several days just to get this product.


By MrBlastman on 6/28/2010 12:04:10 PM , Rating: 2
Or shave their heads. Actually, shaving their heads is a good thing, it just shows me who I need to kick when walking around on the street.


By drycrust3 on 6/28/2010 12:31:32 PM , Rating: 2
With a debt of $13 Trillion dollars and no obvious signs of being able to pay it back, an oil spill that is threatening to turn whole cities into ghost towns, and a war against a nation that has been the death knell of several great empires, then I guess it is arguable there aren't any signs of economic problems now or in the foreseeable future for the USA.


By Hiawa23 on 6/28/2010 7:09:24 PM , Rating: 2
I don't want to hear another word about "economic trouble" in the US; if that many people can afford the "next big thing", then its obvious we have no economic problems whatsoever.

come on, it's the American way to buy what you can't afford. As long as credit cards work, techies will continue to go into more & more debt. It's how our government works, it's how society works..


By crleap on 6/29/2010 4:44:40 PM , Rating: 2
you're oversimplifying. first off, $200 is nothing. nobody is going to say they're rich because they could afford something that costs $200. second, the state of the economy isn't gauged by how many people can afford a $200 purchase. it's gauged by many things, and more importantly the ability of the masses to hold jobs that will allow them to purchase cars and homes. not $200 gadgets. people can save their welfare for a couple weeks to have that much. we have a very generous government that enjoys buying people iphones from my paycheck.


In other news...
By MrBlastman on 6/28/2010 11:44:09 AM , Rating: 2
1.7 Million sad Pandas cried over the weekend as their reception was horrible.

Chin, the hardworking, lower-class Chinese youth of about 22 years age, was heard mumbling as he walked back into his Job at the Foxconn plant:

"1.7 Million more stupid phones. Great, I guess I'll be working 25-hour shifts from now until oblivion." He frowned, his hands sore to all touch, his legs quivering and stomach rumbling, he moped into work after just completing an 8-hour period of offtime.

One of his supervisors saw him dragging in to the production line and cracked a whip on his butt. Chin and his peers called him "Mola Ramm." A shame, really, as they never would be able to afford to watch the real Mola Ramm on one of the products they produce with their own labors.

I for one am glad I did not participate in furthering this atrocity. I refuse to buy Apple products.




That's just sad...
By The0ne on 6/28/2010 1:12:44 PM , Rating: 2
I've no idea why, but that photo is just sad.




Record sales=record returns?
By jnemesh on 6/28/2010 4:39:55 PM , Rating: 2
I am wondering what the return rate is on this phone...we will probably never know, but with 40%-92% (depending on the study) of customers experiencing reception issues, I am sure its gotta be in the 20% or higher range...




The funniest thing...
By petrosy on 6/28/2010 7:46:37 PM , Rating: 2
... is that even after all the money and competition from Android and RIM. Apple has a chance to take the crown once and for all.... and then they deliver a device that is not more ground breaking than a 6month old Android phone.

Nice innovation Apple.... go back to the drawing board and come back when you have something truly revolutionary.

Although in Apple's defense they don't have to make it revolutionary they only portray the idea of revolutionary and have the masses buy into it.

Tip for all the fanbois... it not really and iPhone 4g its actually and iPhone 3gs+ Apple has yet to create 4g phone.

Cue idiotic response about phone versioning!




Had to be said.
By IamTHEsnake on 6/28/10, Rating: 0
Apple is doomed
By Tony Swash on 6/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: Apple is doomed
By The Raven on 6/28/2010 1:09:13 PM , Rating: 2
I do agree that Apple doesn't have much to worry about right now but this is not the reason why.

In the link, I could replace Android with Windows and iPhone with Macintosh roll the clock back 20 years and say the same thing and forecast exactly what has happened over the past 20 years which is the opposite of what the link is saying.

Freedom to change your device/software always leads to success. It is only a completely asinine implementation that might stall that. Apple should have seen this when they opened the iPhone up to app development. But they still don't get it and I think that Apple will get pasted up again all over again.

Even, MS saw that people loved being free to install whatever SW they wanted or connect whatever device they wanted but they don't get it either. (But then again it doesn't matter anyway if you are MS).

Yes Google might need to change the way their app store promotes apps. But that will get worked out over time (a la copy paste on the iPhone ;-) ).

I mean really. This post is saying something as absurd as Bing will fail because it links to piracy sites/tools. Can you see how absurd that is? Android devices are little computers, and Android is an OS. There is no difference between that and "PCs are computers, and Windows is an OS." or "Macs are computers, and OSX is an OS."

The only difference between the iPhone and the Droid (for example) if you buy music on Amazon (or pirate it for that matter) you don't have to listen to it on your iPhone or iTunes. I'll take the latter, thank you very much.

If Android fails, this will certainly not be the reason.


RE: Apple is doomed
By bplewis24 on 6/28/2010 1:18:03 PM , Rating: 2
You actually expect people to be swayed by an idiot's blog? One of the first few sentences of the blog causes it to lose all of it's credibility:

quote:
Google does far too little curation of the Android Market, and it shows. Unlike Apple’s App Store, the Android Market has few high quality apps.


You've just exposed yourself for the fanboy you are.

Brandon


RE: Apple is doomed
By Motoman on 6/28/2010 1:53:27 PM , Rating: 2
Yes.

And Apple most certainly is not doomed. I have no reason to honestly expect they won't continue to sell out of every product they ever make. There is an endless supply of gullible consumers for them.

There is a sucker born every minute
- P.T. Barunum


RE: Apple is doomed
By The Raven on 6/28/2010 2:33:06 PM , Rating: 2
Actually I looked around his blog. He is not an idiot. I think he is just wrong on this particular post. And he is not a fanboy. That much I know from glancing over his blog. I think he posted this more as a hopeless criticism. Like a sports fan who criticizes his favorite team's management and gives up hopes of getting into the playoffs.

But I take it you are actaully referring to the guy who linked it as the fanboy.


"Let's face it, we're not changing the world. We're building a product that helps people buy more crap - and watch porn." -- Seagate CEO Bill Watkins














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