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Jim Basillie and Mike Lazaridis have come under fire from investors of Research in Motion, who insist major change is needed.  (Source: RIM)

A sale to a rival, such as Google, is one possible solution, according to investors.  (Source: Despuesdegoogle)
Two separate proposals suggest sale of intellectual property and shakeup of executive ranks

Waterloo, Ontario-based Research in Motion, Ltd. (TSE:RIM) circa 2006-2007 appeared unstoppable.  The company was beloved by businesses worldwide and was growing fast in market share and sales.  Even Democratic Presidential hopeful Sen. Barrack Obama was deeply attached to his BlackBerry smartphone.

I. Should RIM Sell Itself?

Fast-forward five years and that vibrant company is an increasingly distant memory.  In its place is a company with a slow pace of releases, dated hardware (
the Blackberry 9860, to launch in October, will be BlackBerry's first and only smartphone this fall to compete with Apple, Inc.'s (AAPL) iPhone and Google Inc.'s (GOOG) Android hardware-wise).  Unsurprisingly sales growth has slumped both in the U.S. and abroad.  Correspondingly, the company's stock has taken a beating at the Toronto Stock Exchange.

Investors, desperate to see a turnaround, have implored RIM to explore a pair of options.

The latest effort suggests that RIM sell its rich catalog of intellectual property -- or perhaps sell its entire business to the highest bidder.  Investors salivated at Google's 
recent purchase of Motorola Mobility, which brought a handsome return for shareholders.  A RIM sale would help investors recoup their losses and perhaps even profit.

Google and others are thought to be potential buyers.

The proposal is being spearheaded by Jaguar Financial Corp. (
TSE:JFC).  JFC refuses to reveal the size of its stake in RIM, but it says it represents a coalition of various shareholders who together hold a bit under 5 percent of the company's stock (RIM has a market cap of $16.45B USD at present, so this works out to roughly $822M USD in stock).

II. Second Proposal Suggests Shakeup in Top Executive Positions

JFC CEO Vic Alboini also expressed dismay at the company's lackluster response to a second independent proposal.  

The Northwest & Ethical Investments LP in June said that RIM's Jim Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis's decision to split Chairman and CEO duties was adversely affecting the company.  They suggested the company assign one executive to each post.

RIM agreed to examine the proposal, but said they probably wouldn't get around to announcing their thoughts until January 2012.  Mr. Alboini called that slow response "woefully inadequate" and "an extreme example that management has not let go."

III. If QNX Bid Fails Will RIM Become Nortel 2.0?

Mr. Alboini is also pessimistic about RIM's last-ditch turnaround effort with its new QNX operating system.  The new operating system, which debuted on the company's PlayBook tablet, is
scheduled to roll out to the company's smartphones next year, replacing the veteran BlackBerry operating system.

Thus far, however, QNX has 
drawn mixed reviews, with many saying the best thing about it is the ability to play (some) Android apps on it.  However, many fear that Google may close that route as more RIM devices adopt QNX.

While Mr. Alboini admits that it could have a positive impact, he says the cost of failure is to great to gamble by counting on such a success.  He remarks in a Bloomberg 
interview, "The board should be saying, 'What if these products don’t pan out?' You don’t want RIM to turn into another Nortel."

Nortel Networks, like RIM, used to be a highly prized Canadian mobile services firm.  But stagnation 
bred an eventual bankruptcy and fire sale of the company's intellectual property in a bid by shareholders to recoup part of their losses.

Mr. Alboini fears RIM could eventually meet a similar fate and says the time to act is now.  And he's not alone.  In a highly publicized letter, a departing executive 
lashed out at the company's leadership for failing to respond to the changing market.  He remarked, "I have lost confidence. While I hide it at work, my passion has been sapped. I know I am not alone..."

RIM categorically rejected the criticism, insisting it was doing just fine.



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By Pirks on 9/7/2011 8:03:22 PM , Rating: 2
Jee why am I not surprised :))) some jaguar clown who no one ever heard about before farted something dumb about RIM and our main RIM basher Mr. Mick is blowing it out of proportion real quck. You guys tell me why Mick never blows the GOOD news about RIM out of proportion, he does so only with bad ones? He ignored the PlayBook NDK beta release news, he ignored the 10% jump in RIM's share price, he ignores any good stuff people post about upcoming PlayBook OS 2.0 release, he ignores all the new BB7 devices but full screen Torch one, pretending two other major new models like Bold 99xx do not exist etc etc. What do you think about this suspicious bias from Mick? Is he getting paid by RIM competitors? Or is he simply bashing RIM because he is an Android fanboy or something? There must be some logical explanation of his RIM hate. What do you guys think?




By Subzero0000 on 9/7/2011 9:50:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What do you guys think?

Because RIM has always been irrelevant to the majority of the planet Earth?


By Subzero0000 on 9/8/2011 3:05:33 AM , Rating: 2
Hey! Why would you say that! You hurts my feeling. I like Apple!


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 12:20:19 PM , Rating: 2
Does it changes the fact that majority of the people on Earth don't care about Apple? Nope :P Think about it. Should put things in a proper perspective for you.


By dark matter on 9/8/2011 3:03:22 AM , Rating: 1
Actually you arrogant self deluded prick, most people in the world would prefer fresh water and enough food not to starve.

Don't be an ignorant twat all your life please.


By Subzero0000 on 9/8/2011 3:10:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Actually you arrogant self deluded prick, most people in the world would prefer fresh water and enough food not to starve.

What is that come from? Does it mean you agree that most people don't care about RIM?

or are you just over-thinking it? taking things way too personal?
If you can't control yourself, please stay away from computer, it's for your own good.


By nocturne_81 on 9/8/2011 11:10:06 AM , Rating: 1
He's not an editor... that would imply that he reads what he writes before he posts it.


By TakinYourPoints on 9/8/2011 3:10:02 PM , Rating: 2
Goddammit that is funny


By LordSojar on 9/7/2011 10:05:43 PM , Rating: 2
RIM sucks. I'll just keep trying to point that out to you until it either sinks in or you stop posting that everyone hates on RIM too much. RIM sucks. I repeat, RIM sucks Pirks.

Oh, and we ignore the new BB devices because... RIM sucks.


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 9:17:41 AM , Rating: 2
So, you thinik RIM is great because they finally caught up to the rest of the world with recently released OS7 devices?

Realistically speaking, RIM needs to do more than put out phones that are comparable to other manufacturers offerings from 2-3 years ago. How is that a good thing. I agree its less bad than they were a few months ago, but look at it objectively. - Hypothetical scenario. Honda motors comes out with a car that has all the features, specs and price of a 3 year old Ford of the same class/market. Lets say Honda just released a car exactly equal to a 2008 Ford Focus. Is that really a good thing?


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 12:29:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
put out phones that are comparable to other manufacturers offerings from 2-3 years ago
Stop lying please, nobody 3 years ago had anything hardware and software spec-wise similar to new BB7 devices. 3 years ago a phone with 1.2GHz CPU inside and full hardware accelerated OpenGL ES 2.0 support, with high quality 800x480 3.7" multitouch capacitive screen, capable of HD video shooting and desktop like fast web browsing, BBM-like chat service and full scale BES-like large enterprise support was in your dreams only, my friend. What stinky hole do you pull all your crazy statements out from anyway? :)))
quote:
Honda just released a car exactly equal to a 2008 Ford Focus. Is that really a good thing?
Yes if Honda has plans to release futuristic electric car next year, powered by the QNX-engine :P


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 1:31:19 PM , Rating: 2
A phone is a phone, assuming the hardware is reliable (and RIM's are good on that front) OF course CPU's are faster today, duh. But as usual, you avoid the subject. Smartphones are all about the OS, and RIM just now caught up with what the rest of the industry was doing 3 years ago. Congrats on a great effort!

Are you trying to infer that RIM's offerings arent playing "catch up" with the rest of the industry? Or are you just doing your typical fanboy rant. Is there ANYTHING RIM can do wrong in your eyes, or are you here strictly to defend every action they take and every product they make.

You tend to ignore any postitive points about a competing product, and ignore any negative points about RIM. Why is that?


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 1:52:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
RIM just now caught up with what the rest of the industry was doing 3 years ago. Congrats on a great effort
Well, getting a nice OS (QNX) and building a strikingly slick looking tablet with this OS inside is a nice progress and a good thing in general. Spin it all the negative ways you want, I still like their tablets more than iPads, mostly because of better OS, better looks and better form factor. This is solid beginning and a solid reply to Apple's attack too. I compared Playbook to multiple Android tablets in May this year and boy Android crap was FUGLY compared to Playbook. Hence my optimism w.r.t. RIM.
quote:
Are you trying to infer that RIM's offerings arent playing "catch up" with the rest of the industry?
Are you trying to infer that Apple's iMessage ripoff isn't playing "catch up" with the RIM's BBM chat service?
quote:
Is there ANYTHING RIM can do wrong in your eyes
The only thing they did wrong is that they delayed QNX purchase by 1 year, I have no idea why. That was dumb.
quote:
You tend to ignore any postitive points about a competing product, and ignore any negative points about RIM
Nah, I know that iProducts have more games and fart apps, and I never ignored those positive points. If you want mobile device strictly for gaming then RIM products are not for you (yet)


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 2:37:18 PM , Rating: 2
"Are you trying to infer that Apple's iMessage ripoff isn't playing "catch up" with the RIM's BBM chat service?

What? I didnt say anything at all about Apple. What do they have to do with this? Nice deflection though.

"Nah, I know that iProducts have more games and fart apps, and I never ignored those positive points. If you want mobile device strictly for gaming then RIM products are not for you (yet) "

Again, I didnt say anything about Apple or games, or apps for that matter. I will say I agree. We dont need 35+ fart apps, we just need one really good one ;)

Look, you chose to buy RIM products, whatever, Good for you. I dont see them catching on. I see them continuing to lose marketshare. You cannot deny the stock chart below, and you cannot deny the reasons why.

http://bit.ly/pRJ0W0

Mark my words, regarless of what you think, whis is what will happen. RIM wil have to do one of the following within a few years.

1. Innovate! Come out with something that makes them stand out.
2. Dramatically lower prices to attract buyers.

As of now the Android/Apple dominance isnt going away unless once of those 2 things happen. If RIM fails to do one or the other within a few years, we will be looking at them selling off the company to a larger buyer, or just going bankrupt. They cannot continue like they are now.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 2:55:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What do they have to do with this?
The fact that Apple plays catch up chasing RIM's BBM chat service with its iMessage knockoff directly contradicts your myth that RIM is chasing "the industry". Got it now?
quote:
I see them continuing to lose marketshare
"The BlackBerry has 40% smartphone market share in 2009, but total smartphones in the US as a percentage of all cell phones was only 19%. So RIM had 40% of a 19% market. Fast forward to 2011. Smartphones now account for 40% of all cell phones in the US. And RIM's share is down to 24.7%. If I was running a business selling smartphones, I'd prefer 24.7% of 40% over 40% of 19% everyday of the week"
quote:
You cannot deny the stock chart below
And you cannot deny their raising stock price in August-September either.
quote:
Come out with something that makes them stand out
Android has absolutely nothing that makes it to stand out, it's just another poor quality iPhone knockoff. Still, Android thrives. Same logic applies to RIM.
quote:
As of now the Android/Apple dominance isnt going away unless once of those 2 things happen
Windows dominance did not prevent Apple to make billions selling Macs, Android dominance does not prevent Apple to make even more billions selling phones and tablets. Same logic applies to RIM.
quote:
If RIM fails to do one or the other within a few years, we will be looking at them selling off the company to a larger buyer, or just going bankrupt. They cannot continue like they are now.
"If Apple fails to do one or the other within a few years, we will be looking at them selling off the company to a larger buyer, or just going bankrupt. They cannot continue like they are now."

^^^ (C) Mike Dell, circa 1998 or so


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 3:12:33 PM , Rating: 2
"The fact that Apple plays catch up chasing RIM's BBM chat service with its iMessage knockoff directly contradicts your myth that RIM is chasing "the industry". Got it now? "

No-one... I repeat No-one buys a phone for the chat service. That is just another stupid comment from you.


"Android has absolutely nothing that makes it to stand out, it's just another poor quality iPhone knockoff. Still, Android thrives. Same logic applies to RIM. "


A nice OS, a variety of phones ranging from 2.5 inch screens to 4.3 with even larger ones announced. Models with and without keyboards, removable batteries, tons of apps, and market momentum come to mind. The Navi is absolutely incredible Uses Google maps off the internet so its always updated. Any questions? Another stupid comment from you.

"Windows dominance did not prevent Apple to make billions selling Macs, Android dominance does not prevent Apple to make even more billions selling phones and tablets. Same logic applies to RIM. "

Apple sells nice computers at high prices. Do you seriously think RIM can start selling phones at higher prices than Apple and Android models? LOL. Another stupid comment from you.


"^^^ (C) Mike Dell, circa 1998 or so "


Uhh, Dell dropped prices. They sell the cheapest PC of any major OEM... So they did do option #2 and it worked for them. Another stupid comment from you.

Face it man there are no arguments to be made here other than the ones in your head.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 3:34:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
No-one buys a phone for the chat service
How about those gazillions of UK teens who are BBMing almost around o'clock? So you are saying these teens do not exist eh? HAHAHAHA :)))) Good one. You are one of those guys who think that the Earth is the same as the US :))) Soo funny :)))

RIM too has a nice BB OS (OS 7 is pretty nice in everyday use and QNX is even better), a variety of phones ranging from 2.8" screens to 3.7" with even larger to be unveiled in QNX phone. Models with and without keyboards, removable batteries, tons of apps (well, less fart apps than in Android but this disadvantage is not critical for everyone, gotta admit), and strong user base in corporations and youth population around the world, not just in the US, come to mind. The Navi is absolutely incredible, uses some online maps (Bing?) off the internet so its always updated.

RIM already sells phones for the same price as Apple and high end Android models, and those new phones are usually sold out pretty fast in stores.

Dell dropped prices, but RIM doesn't have to because they already have low end models for cheap.

Any more stupid comments from you?


By W00dmann on 9/8/2011 3:58:32 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks, you should just sit cross-legged on the ground, soil your diapers, raise both arms to the sky and go "waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!" at the top of your lungs whilst tears fall from your eyes. Because that is how you come across with each and every post.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 4:27:39 PM , Rating: 1
Is that all you got, pussy? :)))


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 5:39:02 PM , Rating: 2
Okeedokke dood. There is no arguing with you. Time will tell what RIM does. Unfortunately for RIM, not alot of zealots like you.

Curious... How does your skewed brain spin this 60% stock drop while the rest of the market was not dropping (aside from calling it a 5% increase over the past month which you already did 2x) ?

http://bit.ly/pRJ0W0

Spin that one!


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 6:14:31 PM , Rating: 2
I'd spin it the same way you'd spin the Apple meteoric rise in stock price, given that they are still heavily pwned by Windows and Android and always remain a small niche platform.

In other words, if Apple's stock price has absolutely nothing to do with market realities, why then RIM's stock price can't do exatly the same, huh?

I wanna see you retro spin THAT one haha :)))


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 8:08:04 PM , Rating: 2
Again, you are back to Apple. becasue your RIM argument has no merit.

Spin? Apple's stock rose based on very simple concepts. Apple had x products that were expected to sell y amounts at z profit per unit. In most cases, they not only sold y amounts, but more than expected (y) amounts, and they had a good R&D pipeline to insure future products - thus market goodness. Rim doesn't have that, and prospects look bleak, thus the drop.

You can deny all you want. It makes no difference in the real world. Enjoy your new Blackberry. It will likely be the lst, because surely in 2 years, even you will have to admit that they cant compete.

Also, RIM sucks, they cant innovate or react fast enough... I know it, JM knows it, the stockholders know it , the boardmembers know it, the whole tech world knows it. Everyone seems to know it except for you... So enjoy your island.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 9:24:09 PM , Rating: 2
RIM can't innovate fast enough when in fact their tablet is better than iPad hardware and especially OS wise? Are you drunk or high? Or you just talk out of your ass because the only experience you got with new RIM phones/tablets is reading JM's "reviews"?


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 10:52:30 PM , Rating: 2
Just stop already... RIM sucks, and you need to face facts.

Suck - in 2008 their stock was 150 points, now its in the low 30's. Thats appx 1/5 the value. NOT a good thing.

Suck - http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/15/us-rim-p...

Suck - http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-06-27/rim-lo...

Suck - http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/30/open-letter-to-black...

Suck - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-06/rim-urged...

I could post on and on, but you just dont see it through your blind fanboy hat. EVERYONE can see this but you. But, what does the rest of the world and the financial systems of the world know. Pirks has fanboy power and that beats all.

Also, BTW, RIM sucks. They suck.

They just suck.

Also, they suck.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 11:55:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
NOT a good thing
Your twin brothers - anti-MS trolls - were bashing stagnant MS stock price for years and years, so what? MS spits on them from above, same as RIM spits on you from above. Your other twin brothers - anti-Apple trolls - were also bashing Apple because of Apple's tiny global market share. Apple spits on them too. Notice any pattern there?

You suck, RIM rocks - http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/07/the-blackberry-playb...

You suck, RIM rocks - http://www.zdnet.com/blog/cell-phones/becoming-a-b...

You suck, RIM rocks - http://blogs.blackberry.com/2011/07/blackberry-app...

You suck, RIM rocks - http://www.bgr.com/2011/08/23/rims-qnx-phones-are-...


By retrospooty on 9/9/2011 8:01:49 AM , Rating: 2
Again, you evade. This isnt about MS stagnant stock (which btw, never tanked to 1/5 its previous high) nor is it about Apple. Nor is it about your 4 opinion links. It's about what you dont want to address... RIM's decline.

Whatever though. You can stay ion denial and be right... all the way until Rim doesnt exist anymore.

Palm anyone?


By Pirks on 9/9/2011 10:20:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
RIM's decline
"The BlackBerry has 40% smartphone market share in 2009, but total smartphones in the US as a percentage of all cell phones was only 19%. So RIM had 40% of a 19% market. Fast forward to 2011. Smartphones now account for 40% of all cell phones in the US. And RIM's share is down to 24.7%. If I was running a business selling smartphones, I'd prefer 24.7% of 40% over 40% of 19% everyday of the week"


By retrospooty on 9/9/2011 3:29:47 PM , Rating: 2
oh, OK, now I get it. That clearly explains the stock plummeting from 150 to 30. Obviously things are really looking up for RIM, and the stock market is a troll. Maybe wall street is listening to mean old Jason Mick. =(

Your too funny man.


By Pirks on 9/9/2011 3:38:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the stock market is a troll
Well, the market share of Apple keeps shrinking and market share of Android keeps growing. Still Apple stock price does not go down. But in exactly the same case - when RIM market share goes down in the US - its stock DOES GO DOWN.

So stock market has double standards. Falling market share of Apple is treated as a GOOD sign and its stock price grows. But falling market share of RIM is treated as BAD sign, and its stock price falls.

I leave it to you to decide whether the stock market is a troll or not.


By retrospooty on 9/9/2011 3:55:22 PM , Rating: 2
"I leave it to you to decide whether the stock market is a troll or not. "

I think you already did that. Clearly the stock market is unfair to RIM and doesn't realize how great things are going there. /rolls eyes.


By Pirks on 9/9/2011 4:00:12 PM , Rating: 2
well, according to the stock market logic the shrinking market share is GOOD! see, this is why I'm optimistic about RIM's shrinking market share. I don't know what you're trying to tell me, that it is bad? well, if it were BAD then Apple stock would go down, but it doesn't. meaning what? meaning that it's GOOD! hehe :P


By retrospooty on 9/9/2011 4:02:59 PM , Rating: 2
- Riiiiight!


By Pirks on 9/9/2011 4:18:26 PM , Rating: 2
don't shoot the messenger man, I'm just telling what stock markets told me


By retrospooty on 9/10/2011 9:40:59 AM , Rating: 2
Look what the market just told me!!!

RIM at the bottom of the list, lower than even Palm. Thats bad!

http://www.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2...


By Pirks on 9/10/2011 10:01:56 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah that's for BB6 and BB6 is dead. BB7 is out there since mid-August. Time to wake up retro.


By retrospooty on 9/11/2011 9:04:33 AM , Rating: 2
1. your assuming all of those unhappy marks are due to OS5, and 6 with no info

2. Your assuming anyone goves a crap about OS7, when IOS and Android are already up and running in stride.

I am not saying OS7 isnt good, I am saying its too little too late. No-one cares.


By Pirks on 9/11/2011 11:29:48 AM , Rating: 2
1. No info needed as all these surveys are taken months before mid-August when BB7 started trickling down the North American markets. Hence it's all about one-two year old BB5 and BB6 which are crappy for modern consumer smartphone standards. Fortunatley BB7 got back on track.

2. You assume that gazillions of teens and enterprise users that happily use BBs around the world, not just in the US, do not exist.

I'm not saying iOS and Android are not attacking, they do, but with BB7 they only have fart apps and a few hyped up 3D games like Infinity Blade left as advantage. You can convince yourself that fart apps and 3D games is all that needed to pull all BB users to iOS and Android, fortunately your view of the world does not match the view of all the other smartphone users, especially outside the US where BB is famous for capturing the markets of some conutries almost completely. Try South America, South Africa, a lot of smaller Caribbean/Asian markets which are essentially owned by BB and are untapped resource for future growth and which BB is destined to own, unlike US-centered Android and iPhone designs.

It will take Android and iOS much more to capture those markets than a few clueless US-centric trolls like JM and yourself.

BTW your myth about stock price meaning anything was just debunked in the other thread here about Apple, where multiple people like Alexstarfire declared that market cap means sh1t. See http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=22682... - therefore your hyped up "RIM's market cap decline" doom and gloom is worth the same, i.e. SH!T.

And the fact that you had nothing to say to Alexstarfire and others in the that thread shows that you agree with his sentiments about market cap meaning nothing. Hence you can't stand behind your view (that "market cap is supersignificant") when it's challenged by others like Alexstarfire. What a pitiful softy troll you are :))) I expected you to give Alexstarfire some hard time and challenge his views but you sheep kept so quiet there.

Just proves that you guys troll RIM with no reason whatsoever. Exactly my point from the very beginning here.

I'm not against trolling, it could be fun, I'm just pointing out the real reasons behind it. Mick is Android fanboy, you are RIM hater, and so on. Don't hide those true reasons next time please.


By retrospooty on 9/11/2011 12:43:49 PM , Rating: 2
You are delusional my friend. I am not a RIM hater, I was just pointing out reality to you. A point which your denial field will not accept. If you want to buy RIm products, its your free choice. Realize that the rest of the world is moving on to better things.

I am done on this particular thread. SO, until next time, when a RIM article gets posted about how poorly they are doing lately, and you jump in with your spin trying to (for some unknown reason) convince the world that RIM does not suck... When the world has clearly realized (and more and more each day) that they are done for. Fast forward 2 years and you will be where Palm was a year ago. With a good OS that no-one cares about.


By Pirks on 9/12/2011 12:29:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
you jump in with your spin trying to convince the world that RIM does not suck
No, I only convinced the world that JM is biased and one should not trust him if one wants to know what RIM is up to.

The rest is your pure fantasy, my friend.


By mkrech on 9/8/2011 4:05:19 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks, you have obviously been online all day. Couldn't you look up the Dell quote by now?

"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders," Michael Dell said before a crowd of several thousand IT executives.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-203937.html


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 4:14:57 PM , Rating: 2
Details don't matter because analogy still works.


By nocturne_81 on 9/9/2011 5:04:11 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hypothetical scenario. Honda motors comes out with a car that has all the features, specs and price of a 3 year old Ford of the same class/market...


Horrible example.. Keep in mind that a generation of a model of car typically lasts 6-10 years, and very little changes year to year. If you go to a dealership and can get last year's model cheaper -- you'd be an absolute idiot to buy the new model unless there are substantial changes. In many cases, such as the last generation Toyota Camry's, build quality can be severely reduced year to year.


By Ravynmagi on 9/8/2011 10:44:58 AM , Rating: 2
No offense, but it kinda seems like your the one trolling or at least being a bit fanboy-actical. Most of the world sees where Blackberry is going. Apple and Google continue to grow their market share and the expense of Blackberry that is rapidly declining.

You don't see people talking about the "good" stuff about Blackberry because I don't think most of us care about the new OS or hardware. Majority of people are far more excited about the iPhone 5 and new Android 4.0 coming this fall, than anything RIM is working on.

It would be nice if Blackberry could be more competitive. But when people think Blackberry, they just thinking boring business email phone with a few apps. They haven't done nearly enough to change that image (hard to say if they even tried).


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 12:42:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
and the expense of Blackberry that is rapidly declining
This bullsh!t was debunked a few months ago by one of the market analysts, here's what he wrote about this "US marketshare" lunacy you anti-RIM trolls love to spit around:

"The BlackBerry has 40% smartphone market share in 2009, but total smartphones in the US as a percentage of all cell phones was only 19%. So RIM had 40% of a 19% market. Fast forward to 2011. Smartphones now account for 40% of all cell phones in the US. And RIM's share is down to 24.7%. If I was running a business selling smartphones, I'd prefer 24.7% of 40% over 40% of 19% everyday of the week"

Do you understand now why your funny "US marketshare" bullsh!t is irrelevant?
quote:
You don't see people talking about the "good" stuff about Blackberry because I don't think most of us care about the new OS or hardware.
This does not explain why Mick only posts the minor bad news about RIM and carefully avoids posting anything major and good. He is clearly biased troll, probably paid by RIM competitors. If he were NOT a biased troll, he would post NOTHING about RIM at all . Got it?
quote:
They haven't done nearly enough to change that image (hard to say if they even tried).
Oh yeah, they released new products that have NOTHING common with their old boring business-only devices, they SOLD THEM ALL OUT immediately (try to get Bold 99xx now, haha :P) and you trying to troll here telling me they didn't even try? How dumb and ignorant must you be to act like that? Do you want Lazaridis to give you head or something in order to change you mind? You want RIM to present you with a call girl or a new Ferrari? What else do you want from them so that you f*cking NOTICE anything they do?

Well, at least you notice nothing, you're just blind and pretend that being blind is normal. That's fine with me, but Mick is way worse, he's not blind, he carefully selects bad news and carefully rejects good news about RIM. He does not know what integrity and objectivity is, he's just another soldout, meh...


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 2:40:15 PM , Rating: 2
"No offense, but it kinda seems like your the one trolling or at least being a bit fanboy-actical. Most of the world sees where Blackberry is going"

True... and thanks. I think Pirks is in some major denial here. hee hee hee


By BruceLeet on 9/11/2011 12:52:16 PM , Rating: 2
Wall of text.

Do not want.


By nocturne_81 on 9/7/2011 5:02:00 PM , Rating: 2
I find it laughable that all it takes to ruin a company anymore is a bit of misinformed negative press... HP was humiliated with pseudo-reviews from blogoshere over their touchpad from authors that never even touched the device; causing their fire-sale, the firing of a CEO, and the contemplation of spinning off their entire consumer business. Google had a quarter of record profits and saw stock prices dip a bit.

Admittedly, RIM dropped the ball a bit -- but only in their handset division. Since the Storm, they just haven't had anything new to get excited about, at least until now with the new Torches. The playbook is and remains a worthwhile quality product, also. It just goes to show what a few fanboy bloggers can do to a company..




By Subzero0000 on 9/7/2011 9:46:25 PM , Rating: 2
it's funny that you mention about "fanboy", while not admitting the Touchpad was a total failure against Android/iPad at the same price point, and Playbook is as good as dead 'cus it's useless without having a RIM mobile.


By Subzero0000 on 9/8/2011 2:55:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You should actually try to use the product before bashing it.

To be honest, I only see the videos on Internet, I haven't had a chance to try it, because they don't sell Playbook in Hong Kong (or it's really rare to find).

quote:
Playbook can do both, be Wi-Fi only and be bridged to a BB phone for 3G/4G access.

You always talk about "bridge" like it's a must-have feature, but what I'm trying to say is, why do you even need to "bridge" at all if the tablet can do most of the things.
See? you "bridge" because it is cripple.

quote:
But you don't call those iPads "as good as dead" even though Playbook beats them easily. Why?

Because there are simply too many apps+games that are not available on Playbook. In fact, Playbook library is so weak that it has to use QNX to get help from Android platform. Are you going to deny that?

Besides, iPad cannot dead because Apple has a lot more loyal fans than RIM.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 12:47:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You always talk about "bridge" like it's a must-have feature, but what I'm trying to say is, why do you even need to "bridge" at all if the tablet can do most of the things.
I always say that brodge is a premium feature that the dumb crippled Wi-Fi only tablet from Apple does NOT have. This is why Playbook beats those Wi-Fi only iPads easily. Got it?
quote:
there are simply too many apps+games that are not available on Playbook
Did you say that iPad was dead last year because he had no apps compared to iPhone or Android? No? Then why double standards and why treating Playbook so different? Is it because you are an Apple fanboy? That wouls explain it, Apple fanboys always apply different standards to non-Apple devices, I noticed that a long time ago.
quote:
Where do you get the sense that Playbook beats iPad? source please?
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41374/blackberry-p...


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 1:35:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Where do you get the sense that Playbook beats iPad? source please?

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41374/blackberry-p...

"the voucher and money saving site, has made the bold claim that the BlackBerry PlayBack has overtaken the iPad as the must-have tablet"

Uh, I have to call you out on this. Some website saying it is the must have tablet doesn't make it true. Your point, as usual is totally invalidated by your fanboyism.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 1:57:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Some website saying it is the must have tablet doesn't make it true
But if some website says some Android or iPad is a must have you won't troll them! You'd only troll RIM. See now?


By retrospooty on 9/8/2011 2:15:35 PM , Rating: 2
I pretty much only post anything at all here at AT/DT, so no.

You see, I can be objective, where you cannot. I can see the good and bad in most products and evaluate them based on their merit's and price, also not getting offended if someone else has a differing opinion. You, on the other hand cannot. You elevate the products you buy and defend them as if you are the designer, or at the very least, major stockholder. IF anyone has a differing opionion, you come out with guns a blazing. You don't see anything odd about that? Why do you give a crap what Jason Mick thinks? You have mentioned many times that he is bieased against Blackberry, as if he has some hidden agenda. WTF, get over it.

Back to topic, I find it VERY hard to believe that you objectively looked at all the products on the market and actually chose to buy a Blackberry. That just makes zero sense, unless, you work at a company that uses a BB mail service, in which case you were kind of tied into it.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 2:30:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why do you give a crap what Jason Mick thinks?
Because he is unfortunately a "journalist" which gives him right to post "news" that are unfair to a company he chooses to bash. I just don't understand why he bashes RIM and not some other tech company. When he tells me why he is so biased towards RIM and not some other company, then I'll stop bothering.

Wouldn't you be interested in some other journalist's bias if you noticed that he carefully picks bad news about something and avoids posting good news about it? Woudn't be calling out that journalist and aksing him why he is so biased considered a normal reaction? I think, therefore, my reaction is normal and if I ask Mick about his bias this is nothing to be worried about. Right? Or you think asking Mick about why he's so biased is a bad thing? Why?
quote:
You elevate the products you buy
STOP. LYING. PLEASE. When a few months ago I was pwning some particularly zealous anti-Mac trolls here like Motoman - I haven't owned (and do not own so far) any Apple devices.

So stop lying about me, okay?


By Subzero0000 on 9/8/2011 7:55:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Did you say that iPad was dead last year because he had no apps compared to iPhone or Android? No? Then why double standards and why treating Playbook so different? Is it because you are an Apple fanboy?


You fail to see iPad was in a different situation. iPad already had apps that are created for iPhone originally, it's the same case for Android.
There is no "Double standard" on this one.

I don't think I'm qualified as an "Apple fanboy". I use Windows 7 PC and I use Android phone. I only got iPad for playing around.
And I don't like taking side.


By Subzero0000 on 9/8/2011 8:52:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
ILoveCashback.com, the voucher and money saving site, has made the bold claim that the BlackBerry PlayBack has overtaken the iPad as the must-have tablet. It states that the Apple device has fallen behind the new kid on the block in terms of searches.


If "ILoveCashback.com" is what you say a respectable source... then ok, you win :P

And please explain what exactly is that "in terms of searches" mean? Does it mean people search for it on ILoveCashback.com a lot? Does it actually mean sales?


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 11:55:27 PM , Rating: 2
There is a correlation between sales and internet searches


By Subzero0000 on 9/8/2011 3:00:43 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
But you don't call those iPads "as good as dead" even though Playbook beats them easily. Why?


Where do you get the sense that Playbook beats iPad? source please?

quote:
Because you must be a clueless troll like I suggested above. You have no experience using a product and you make obviously idiotic statements about it at the same time. Maybe its time for you to stop trolling and try to use the thing before bashing it?


I feel such a honor to be called a "troll" by one of the greatest "troll" on Dailytech, Pirks.
I have a lot more to learn from you.


By nocturne_81 on 9/8/2011 7:52:06 AM , Rating: 1
The exact point I was trying to make was that if you don't own or haven't used a product, what right do you have to say that it holds no value?

I honestly don't care what trolls like you claim in the comments section without any experience or knowledge -- I was more or less referring to the many pseudo-reviews published on this very site (and many others) that claimed knowledge of a product without reference, which incites that it is indeed firsthand knowledge.

For example (for fictional purposes only... *wink*), lets say you have an author named.. lets say, 'Mason Dick'. Now, Mason Dick has no firsthand knowledge of a product, lets call it the 'MuchPad'. Now, Mason doesn't own a MuchPad, has never used one, and by his comments, it seems he has no idea what it really is.

Now, Mason Dick proceeds to publish many articles under the heading of this site blasting the MuchPad, without any 'editorial' prefix that would identify it as opinion rather than fact. But Mason isn't alone -- many other 'wanna-be' bloggers do exactly the same thing. Now, despite having absolutely no firsthand experience with the MuchPad, Mason helps humiliate the product's manufacturer, let's call it 'TP', so much that they completely discontinue the product and attempt to sell off the remaining stock at a loss. Unfortunately, TP invested so much faith in the MuchPad -- it can't stomach the failure; so they fire their CEO, and attempt spin off the consumer side of their business responsible for the failure so it can't affect stock prices any further...

Now, that's not the end of this 'fairy' tale.. Mason Dick now purchases a heavily discounted MuchPad during the resulting fire sale. Finally having the product in hand, Mason now publishes a glowing 'review' of the MuchPad. Though noting it's few deficiencies (as a result of the product only being 7 weeks old); Mason exclaims how satisfied he is with the product, lauding the many features it brought to the table in an incredibly small and cramped market.

Unfortunately, this isn't any fairy tale..


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 12:53:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
if you don't own or haven't used a product, what right do you have to say that it holds no value?
+1000
All these dumb trolls like Mick and Subzero have never tried the RIM stuff but they love to bash it. Just like Motoman loves to bash Apple. Same level of idiocy.


By mkrech on 9/8/2011 1:22:00 PM , Rating: 2
Wow Pirks. Easy there.

How about this... I'll bet you your choice of wager amount that within 2 years, RIM will be bankrupt, sold to another company or separately struggling to make a profit and it's phone sales will not even be in the top 5 worldwide.

What do you say?

Not hating, just knowing.


By mkrech on 9/8/2011 1:25:12 PM , Rating: 2
oops delete that "separately"

meant to say desperately... dang spell czech'r ;)

anyway, you get the idea.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 1:32:26 PM , Rating: 2
"I'll bet you your choice of wager amount that within 2 years, Apple will be bankrupt, sold to another company or separately struggling to make a profit and it's Mac sales will not even be in the top 5 worldwide."

^^^ (C) Mike Dell, circa 1998 or so


By mkrech on 9/8/2011 1:38:21 PM , Rating: 2
Good point, but I don't think Jobs is planning on going to work for RIM.

You think there is someone else who can lead them? That would really be interesting and I agree, it could certainly happen. After all, Apple would have certainly failed if it had not changed course, whether through Jobs' leadership or someone else.

However, you would have to agree with me that an Apple type turn around would be an unlikely, although not impossible, future.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 2:05:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
However, you would have to agree with me that an Apple type turn around would be an unlikely, although not impossible, future
MS or IBM never had any "turnarounds", did they die because of that? No. Did they die because Jobs was not working there? No. Does their stock price suck compared to Apple? Yes. Did they die because of their comparatively low stock price? No.

Same logic applies to RIM.


By mkrech on 9/8/2011 3:57:30 PM , Rating: 2
Now your reaching to far. MS and IBM are drastically different from RIM... and as such, the appearance of their demise will look different. But, if you speed up the process to normalize the differences between the companies, you will find the result is the same.

Basically, if you are driving toward a tree, your only choices are change directions, come to a stop, or crash into it. RIM is driving toward a tree, something must change. Pressing the gas pedal is not a wise choice.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 4:09:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
you will find the result is the same
Yeah, the result is that everyone eventually dies. Even Apple. Can you believe this? :)
quote:
Pressing the gas pedal is not a wise choice
RIM turns the steering wheel and changes its direction instead of just pressing gas pedal. Hence it looks they are safe for now.


By mkrech on 9/8/2011 1:33:09 PM , Rating: 2
http://bit.ly/pRJ0W0
Nice if you like skiing.


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 2:10:11 PM , Rating: 2
That upwards slope to the right (Aug 11-Sep 11) is not ski friendly. When it grows longer and higher all the clueless anti-RIM trolls like Mick and Subzero will finally shut up.


By mkrech on 9/8/2011 4:09:06 PM , Rating: 2
Wager?


By Pirks on 9/8/2011 4:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
I bet on AAPL once and I lost a couple of grand, so of course I won't put any bets on stocks that are weaker than AAPL. I think RIMM will go up because after I used their newer products (Playbook and new full screen Torch) I very much liked the direction they took.


Isn't it just president...
By cjohnson2136 on 9/7/2011 4:10:56 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Even Democratic Presidential hopeful Sen. Barrack Obama


Wouldn't it just be President Barrack Obama. Last I checked he wasn't a senator for some time now




RE: Isn't it just president...
By Motoman on 9/7/2011 4:36:11 PM , Rating: 2
At the time that Obama was noticed for being attached to his Blackberry, he was a senator and running for president. When he became president, they took away his Blackberry.


RE: Isn't it just president...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/7/11, Rating: 0
RE: Isn't it just president...
By Samus on 9/8/2011 12:56:01 AM , Rating: 2
And he would still be using his Blackberry if the Secret Service would allow it.

Kind of makes you wonder what Romney was on about with his "payphone arguement" during his speach. Obama is undoubtedly the highest-tech president we've ever had, and definately higher tech than his competition in 2008. 2012? We'll see. I think the current economic strategy is a little old fashioned, but I don't think just a modern economic strategy is the fix-all solution, either.


RE: Isn't it just president...
By FITCamaro on 9/8/11, Rating: 0
I'd be shocked if Google bought RIM
By MrTeal on 9/7/2011 4:16:40 PM , Rating: 2
First, it would almost certainly be challenged as anti-competitive. Motorola was a single handset maker, not an entire ecosystem. Google buying RIM would eliminate 1/2 their competition in one more.

Second, the Canadian government would have to approve the sale as having a net benefit for Canada, and that's not guaranteed. Look at the recent case of BHP Billiton, where their takeover of PCS was blocked for similar reasons.




By mkrech on 9/8/2011 4:42:29 PM , Rating: 2
Excellent points. I also think it is outside their strategy. Google is not interested in hardware.

The Android/Chrome infrastructure's biggest hurdle is its fragmentation. That issue will diminish as the phone apps increasingly become cloud and browser based.

The chance that Google is interested in RIM for hardware, software or network is in my opinion quite unlikely.


MS
By kleinma on 9/7/2011 4:51:40 PM , Rating: 2
It seems it would make more sense for Microsoft to purchase RIM and roll that into their Windows phone line. More so than a purchase from google, who doesn't need any help right now with marketshare, just needs help with lawsuits.

Of course if ANYONE that is an existing player buys it, it would only be for IP and to kill off the BB brand and assimilate it into their own brand. Still it makes most sense that MS would want to do a thing like that.




RE: MS
By mackx on 9/8/2011 4:22:50 AM , Rating: 2
i don't know, a lot of people are into their BBM aren't they? former BB users being able to get access to a BBM app on their android device might be a selling point, and a way to move BB users to android as they wouldn't lose that feature.

it would also give google a huge leg up in the business market


RE: Pirks
By mkrech on 9/8/2011 4:20:14 PM , Rating: 2
Yep, Pirks is a zealot... a sycophant of the highest caliber.

However, I am curious about Pirks' motivation. Indeed, I like HP. But you won't see me fighting so valiantly to convince anyone that HP is on the road to a milk and honey adorned corporate nirvana.

I guess I'm saying I like the enthusiasm... and I am sure DT does as well. Pirks must be responsible for a large amount of their click-throughs.

So, am I the only one that would secretly love to party with Pirks?




RE: Pirks
By Pirks on 9/8/2011 4:35:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Indeed, I like HP. But you won't see me fighting so valiantly to convince anyone that HP is on the road to a milk and honey adorned corporate nirvana
The moment Mick starts bashing HP and spreading lies about them you'll immediately change your tune and start asking Mick why he is so biased. JUST LIKE I'M ASKING HIM NOW.

So who you're trying to fool by pretending you're such an innocent saint huh? :)))


Motorola Solutions + RIM?
By UNCjigga on 9/7/2011 4:25:49 PM , Rating: 2
I for one think Motorola Solutions (MSI) should make a play for RIM. They'd gain a foothold in the corporate white-collar communications space vs. backoffice/mobile worker/public safety where they play today. They'd also gain a robust, secure software platform (RIM OS) that might be ancient by consumer standards but it's great for business (and much better than Windows 6.x, which MSI still uses today!) Plus they'd gain a next generation, industrial-strength platform in QNX.

MSI doesn't really need the patent portfolio or a consumer handset business, so there'd be no pressure to succeed there (perhaps they'll keep at it in emerging markets?) Besides, not sure what kind of legal wrenches are in the works to prevent MSI competing with Motorola Mobility, though not sure that matters now that MM will be part of Google.




FYI Jason Mickey mouse
By jones1980 on 9/8/2011 9:42:37 PM , Rating: 2
FYI you can already get rims new lineup of phones... just one of the many incorrect facts in your comic strip.




Jaguar
By 38 Years on 9/7/2011 4:18:08 PM , Rating: 1
I am shocked this mickey mouse outfit is getting the headlines, are all you news sites desperate for "news".
These jokers weren't even shareholders as of June 30 and they spout off that RIM should sell their patents, QNX will fail, WTF, have you all gone mad? I listed to the CEO on BNN in Toronto, what a fool, I can't believe they gave this person a platform to speak.
Lazaridis and Balsillie must be shaking their heads in disbelief.




Cisco CSCO CISCO!
By Lord 666 on 9/7/2011 5:55:02 PM , Rating: 1
John Chambers Kenobi... you are their only hope.




china to rule them all....!
By riottime on 9/7/11, Rating: -1
RE: china to rule them all....!
By nocturne_81 on 9/7/2011 6:51:27 PM , Rating: 3
This type of fear mongering would fit right in over at Fox News...

China has 3 times our population (and a much higher percentage under 35), yet the United States has 2.5x the GDP (we're still #1, China #2... and no, the EU doesn't count)..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_...

But China owns a huge chunk of our debt, right? Not really.. They own little more than one trillion in debt bonds, just a marginal amount more than Japan. So who owns the most..? Us private citizens do, holding more than 10 trillion dollars worth of USA's debt bonds.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart...

But once China stops undervaluing their currency, their GDP will crush us, right? Nope.. They're taking a real gamble -- once the bubble pops, they're risking collapsing their entire economy with drastically rising inflation.

We may not be the same country we were in the 50s, but we haven't fallen so far.. We're still on top. When our economy trembles, so does the world's. We may not be as prosperous as small socialist scandinavian nations like Norway -- but we are more prosperous than we were 50 yrs ago (though maybe not as much as 10 years ago).

Have a little pride in your country, people!


By someguy123 on 9/7/2011 7:18:23 PM , Rating: 3
China is doing pretty unethical things in my mind when it comes to business, but in all honesty they're doing exactly what they need to do to prevent explosive inflation from becoming an issue. Even if these businesses were to dive out, China has stolen so much information that they would be more than able to become isolated and self sustained once again. They're also one of the few places pumping out brand new nuclear reactors.

China may lose out on western business, but in reality the worst that can happen is that they become as isolated as they were before Nixon, yet with substantially better technology and foundation for advancement.


By nocturne_81 on 9/7/2011 6:56:11 PM , Rating: 2
Oh... and yahoo will never be sold or pieced apart.. they may have lost some face, but they still hold an incredible amount of assets.

You could bring up IBM... but then again, they were always an international company. They worked for both the USA and Germany during WWII, after all.

And RIM..? Eh, it's canadian.. Let Canada worry about it.. x]


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