DailyTech - Quick Note: Motorola Secures Legal Victory Against Apple in Patent Suit

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By sprockkets on 1/13/2012 10:11:04 PM , Rating: 3

HA HA.

Apple is Doomed TM.

RE: .

By retrospooty on 1/14/2012 8:19:07 AM , Rating: 2

meh... They arent exactly doomed, but the more time goes by the more court cases they lose and the more they will have to compete on the merits of their products and not the merits of their lawyers. That is a good thing.

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RE: .

By Motoman on 1/14/2012 7:15:39 PM , Rating: 1

Apple has not ever, and will not ever, compete based on the merits of their products. They compete based on the fact that they're Apple...and you're not.

Either you're vapid enough to be an Apple consumer, or you're not. The court cases are a way for Apple to make money independently of anything else...they have no bearing on their performance in the marketplace.

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RE: .

By TakinYourPoints on 1/14/2012 8:06:11 PM , Rating: 2

Yup, they have the fastest mobile hardware along with the largest selection of applications and best developer support by miles, so clearly there are no quantifiable reasons to choose iOS as a mobile platform.

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By JW.C on 1/14/2012 8:19:48 PM , Rating: 2

No actually they dont have the fastest mobile hardware. That title belongs to the Samsung Galaxy S2. Also a large app selection for a shrinking market share doesnt mean a thing other than the iSheep finally have access to games

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RE: .

By Gio6518 on 1/14/2012 11:50:03 PM , Rating: 2

Or skyrocket, new experia , and many others well surpass the 4s.... Especially when ICS is released.

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RE: .

By TakinYourPoints on 1/15/2012 9:09:01 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
No actually they dont have the fastest mobile hardware. That title belongs to the Samsung Galaxy S2.

Wrong

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s...

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RE: .

By Solandri on 1/16/2012 1:42:43 AM , Rating: 2

I'm not really sure what the point is debating along these lines. The difference between the top phones is so small the only people who are going to notice or care are Apple/Android fanbois. But for sake of accuracy, the Galaxy Nexus topped the iPhone 4S in CPU benchmarks. The Galaxy Nexus went on sale in November, a month after the iPhone 4S. The Galaxy S2 was released about half a year before the iPhone 4S.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5133/galaxy-nexus-ic...

The iPhone 4S still ranks highest in GPU speed. I really wish Anand would come up with some 2D GPU benchmarks though. I don't particularly care how smoothly my phone can play 3D games. I do care how smooth the scrolling animation is.

I do agree the iPhone has better developer support. I don't see that lasting though. China just passed the U.S. to become the largest smartphone market. Chinese buyers don't have as much income to buy the (relatively) expensive iOS apps though. As lesser developed nations start to make up a larger share of smartphone sales, the only direction the price for market apps can trend is down.

For me personally, I find much of the iPhone hardware to be crippling for my needs. A 3.5" screen is too small. I prefer a real keyboard (virtual keyboards with auto-correct suck for typing passwords and coding/CLI commands). The black blacks on the AMOLED are very sexy for showing photos on the phone. And I like being able to use microSD cards for storage (buy a 32GB card once, and just transfer it to the next phone I buy instead of having to pay a $100 premium with each phone upgrade).

But that's just me. Different people have different priorities, and I don't begrudge anyone who prefers the feature set of the iPhone.

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RE: .

By spread on 1/14/2012 10:24:28 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
fastest mobile hardware

Not even close. They do have some damn good cameras on their phones however and the other manufacturers should be paying attention.

quote:
largest selection of applications

So far. Agreed.

quote:
best developer support

No. That would be Microsoft.

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RE: .

By Tony Swash on 1/15/12, Rating: 0

By Tony Swash on 1/15/2012 7:04:40 AM , Rating: 0

I think it would accurate to say that Apple has, of all the mobile platforms, the most successful third party application system. Measuring who has the best third party application system can be done using various fairly obvious metrics:

Numbers of apps: iOS has historically had the most apps though Android is catching up fast. Even if as is likely Android overtakes iOS on this metric it is unlikely that iOS users will ever suffer from not having enough apps.

Quality of apps: Hard to find an truly objective metric for this one but it doers seem to be true that in general higher end apps tend to come to iOS first, and that many apps, particularly some of the higher end ones, are iOS only and very few are are Android only. On balance I think it would be fair to say that broadly iOS has some better apps but most really popular apps are available on both platforms. The major area where iOS has a clear and major advantage is in the area of tablet apps, here iOS is miles ahead of Android and the latter does not appear to be catching up.

Developer revenue:Developers make a lot more money, several times as much money, on iOS compared to Android. iOS users seem to be a lot more willing to buy apps than Android users are. That probably means that developer interest in iOS will remain higher than Android.

OS fragmentation: iOS users all get offered, and most install, the latest version of iOS. Android users and developers are limited by the way Android OS updates are controlled, and often not deployed, by the carriers. This makes it harder for developers to write apps for the whole Android user base and for users of older OS versions who may not be able to run the latest and greatest apps.

There is a good chart showing this here
http://androidandme.com/2011/10/news/new-chart-vis...

App use: There seems to be ample evidence that iOS is used as platform a great deal more than Android is. IOS users surf the web more, post images on Flickr more, etc than Android users.

In addition to apps of course is the whole question of the general device platform ecosystem. Apple devices have far more peripherals than do Android devices. Apple has the largest and most used digital goods store and library (iTunes). Apple makes integrating iOS devices into corporate IT systems, home networks, and connecting to your TV much easier.

All these various factors translate in to tangible and obvious extra value to the consumer. Which largely explains the popularity of Apple devices. Which is why Apple created the products and ecosystem that they did.

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RE: .

By spread on 1/16/2012 12:46:25 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
All these various factors translate in to tangible and obvious extra value to the consumer. Which largely explains the popularity of Apple devices. Which is why Apple created the products and ecosystem that they did.

That and people buy Apple based on the hype. It's a fad and doesn't have to make sense. One thing that Apple knows is how to play the media and how to market which is why people are always talking about them.

Their products are slightly higher than average quality and they only have a couple of innovative new features here and there. Features they ripped off everyone else and packaged in one product.

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RE: .

By Tony Swash on 1/15/12, Rating: 0

By Tony Swash on 1/15/2012 7:04:45 AM , Rating: 0

I think it would accurate to say that Apple has, of all the mobile platforms, the most successful third party application system. Measuring who has the best third party application system can be done using various fairly obvious metrics:

Numbers of apps: iOS has historically had the most apps though Android is catching up fast. Even if as is likely Android overtakes iOS on this metric it is unlikely that iOS users will ever suffer from not having enough apps.

Quality of apps: Hard to find an truly objective metric for this one but it doers seem to be true that in general higher end apps tend to come to iOS first, and that many apps, particularly some of the higher end ones, are iOS only and very few are are Android only. On balance I think it would be fair to say that broadly iOS has some better apps but most really popular apps are available on both platforms. The major area where iOS has a clear and major advantage is in the area of tablet apps, here iOS is miles ahead of Android and the latter does not appear to be catching up.

Developer revenue:Developers make a lot more money, several times as much money, on iOS compared to Android. iOS users seem to be a lot more willing to buy apps than Android users are. That probably means that developer interest in iOS will remain higher than Android.

OS fragmentation: iOS users all get offered, and most install, the latest version of iOS. Android users and developers are limited by the way Android OS updates are controlled, and often not deployed, by the carriers. This makes it harder for developers to write apps for the whole Android user base and for users of older OS versions who may not be able to run the latest and greatest apps.

There is a good chart showing this here
http://androidandme.com/2011/10/news/new-chart-vis...

App use: There seems to be ample evidence that iOS is used as platform a great deal more than Android is. IOS users surf the web more, post images on Flickr more, etc than Android users.

In addition to apps of course is the whole question of the general device platform ecosystem. Apple devices have far more peripherals than do Android devices. Apple has the largest and most used digital goods store and library (iTunes). Apple makes integrating iOS devices into corporate IT systems, home networks, and connecting to your TV much easier.

All these various factors translate in to tangible and obvious extra value to the consumer. Which largely explains the popularity of Apple devices. Which is why Apple created the products and ecosystem that they did.

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RE: .

By Tony Swash on 1/15/2012 7:09:53 AM , Rating: 1

Apologies for the double post, I have no idea why it happened except I got an odd server error page when I clicked the post button.

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RE: .

By Reclaimer77 on 1/15/2012 7:18:53 AM , Rating: 3

Hey no problem. It's just double -1's for you anyway.

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RE: .

By Gio6518 on 1/15/2012 9:14:32 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
Apologies for the double post, I have no idea why it happened except I got an odd server error page when I clicked the post button.

Probably an Apple error

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RE: .

By tamalero on 1/15/2012 9:05:52 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
Numbers of apps: iOS has historically had the most apps though Android is catching up fast. Even if as is likely Android overtakes iOS on this metric it is unlikely that iOS users will ever suffer from not having enough apps.

Number of apps is irrelevant.
considering how many of them are identical, repetitive, or just plain copies.
you really think that having 5000 fart apps is making certain service better?

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RE: .

By Tony Swash on 1/15/12, Rating: 0

By Tony Swash on 1/15/2012 10:05:47 AM , Rating: 0

quote:
Number of apps is irrelevant.
considering how many of them are identical, repetitive, or just plain copies.
you really think that having 5000 fart apps is making certain service better

I don't think it's irrelevant but it's relevance needs to be qualified. What I mean by that is that is if, for example, iOS and Android have 500,000 apps and WP7 has 50,000 then that probably reflects less utility and value to most consumers. Also fewer apps probably means lower developer interest, particularly if the disparity between the size of the big and small app libraries is large, and that probably reflects something about the over all health of an app ecosystem. The healthier the app ecosystem the more developer love it will tend to get.

I think the number of apps is more important in relation to the tablet market because there are few tablet optimised or tablet specific apps and because the tablet market is at a much earlier stage of development compared to the smart phone platform. Androids generally rather low number of tablet specific or optimised apps is probably one of the reasons why Android tablets have not done so well compared to the iPad.

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RE: .

By Souka on 1/15/2012 8:06:48 PM , Rating: 2

I "iFart" app is way better than the Droid version...

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RE: .

By TakinYourPoints on 1/15/2012 9:34:03 PM , Rating: 2

Number of apps does matter since in the end the number of useful apps is still higher. There is always a garbage:quality ratio, think of how much trash there is on Windows, that doesn't automatically mean that it has nothing but trash applications.

Outside of games and casual apps, business and productivity apps are huge in iOS. This is not just because there are more developers, but also because iPhones and iPads are actually getting deployed in business because they are a far more secure platform than Android. iOS supports 39 ActiveSync policies while Android supports only seven. Android is useless for anything except as a casual device for this reason.

On top of that, businesses know that Apple will support all of their devices for far longer than Android carriers/handset manufacturers will. A 2009 iPhone will be supported in 2012. Legacy support is important, it's a huge reason why Windows is still so popular. The absolute opposite of that is Android where a six month old device won't be supported for OS upgrades.

Microsoft has almost two dozen apps for iOS and is releasing Office for the iPad. They make about a half dozen Android apps and all just simple front-ends for Bing and MSN. This is the tip of the iceberg of app support for iOS, but please, keep making the iFart argument.

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RE: .

By retrospooty on 1/16/2012 5:56:09 PM , Rating: 2

LOL... Clearly you do not and never have worked in any IT dept in a real company. Pretty much everything you just said about enterprise/business is wrong.

In the end, in enterprise, and consumer markets, the open platform will win. Apple had a huge 2 year headstart and now are already being outsold 5 to 2.

Better phones? No
Better platform? No
Open platform? No
Cheaper? No

There isnt really anything you can say to change it. You calling Apple a better platform doesnt make it so.

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RE: .

By TakinYourPoints on 1/18/2012 8:42:28 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Clearly you do not and never have worked in any IT dept in a real company.

Thank god.

Anyway, here's a very detailed post from someone on another board I go to about why Android has so far been rejected by the large company he works for:

quote:
The iPad is not used in enterprise because it's established, it's used because of the 39 or so ActiveSync security policies that can be applied to an ActiveSync compliant device, only iOS devices support them. Android supports around 7, and is essentially entirely useless for anything other than a casual device. It simply isn't possible right now to have a "secure" Android device, or even pretend you have one.

In addition, narrowing it down to one or two tablets is a LOT harder than you think. We were prepared to support the Galaxy Tab for a separate entity we have to support, but the lawsuits from Apple made us change our minds. Bottom line is no company except Apple has a real investment in the success of a tablet and its ecosystem. Google doesn't even come close for the reasons you mentioned.

Now if Google were to get into the tablet business, I think it'd be a total failure. They can't deliver a product that can last, because whatever they make will be immediately aped by another company looking to explore the market without making a substantial investment in it.

I hope none of my comments come across as discouraging competition, because that's not how I feel. I love competition and innovation in the sector, but the fact is after every other competitor shows their stuff off, the long-term stability and short-term supportability and security of iPads vastly outstrips other devices.

The security concern is a very real one.

You're also incorrect about iOS sales, iPhone and Android sales were almost even in the last quarter and the iPad puts that over the top.

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RE: .

By TakinYourPoints on 1/18/2012 8:50:03 PM , Rating: 2

One other thing to note is that enterprise deployment has a huge impact on business apps. Android development has flatlined over 2011 while iOS has continued to increase.

http://blog.flurry.com/bid/79061/App-Developers-Be...

So to go over your list:

Better phones? - Unless you need a big screen or keyboard, certainly. They are the fastest for sure.
Better platform? - Better developer support, so absolutely.
Open platform? - I don't care. I use Windows, a closed opertating system that I am very happy with. All the people tooting Android being open should abandon MS and load Ubuntu, or they should STFU.
Cheaper? - Doesn't matter. The best Android handsets cost as much as or more than the best iPhone, and I don't care about the cheap ones. As for saving $100 on a Honeycomb/ICS tablet, I again don't care given that the iPad has faster hardware and better apps.

Irrelevant.

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RE: .

By bug77 on 1/15/2012 5:43:46 PM , Rating: 2

Nice chart you found there.
But according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_...
over 95% of the devices out there are running Android 2.0 or newer. They're not exactly using the latest version, but the platform is far from being fragmented.
2.0 and 2.1 don't support JIT, so if you need high-performance, you can "only" target just below 90% of the devices.
I'm really looking forward to your next post. I'm pretty sure you'll still claim Android is a fragmented platform.

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RE: .

By TakinYourPoints on 1/15/2012 9:22:47 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
iOS has historically had the most apps though Android is catching up fast.

This is incorrect, Android development has flatlined over the last year while iOS development has continued to accelerate: http://blog.flurry.com/bid/79061/App-Developers-Be...

quote:
Developer revenue:Developers make a lot more money, several times as much money, on iOS compared to Android.

This is true, developers make $0.24 for every dollar they make on iOS with the same application. Combine that with fragmented hardware, operating systems, storefronts, and it is no wonder mobile developers dislike Android, while others (even huge ones like Microsoft) largely avoid it.

One thing Android fans always pointed to was the number of Android activations compared to iOS. Some people made the argument that this was because people would get cheap or free Android devices to activate, not because people were snapping up $300 Android phones in droves. Android fans denied that "cheap" was the main reason people were buying Android en masse, even though high end iPhones were far and away the most popular individual models sold.

The bottom line is that Android had a market share lead over the iPhone because you could get them really cheap or even free over the iPhone. Well, now iPhone has free and cheap options (3GS is free on contract) so they've closed the gap:

http://www.iphonehacks.com/2012/01/iphone-closes-g...

So yeah, the "550,000 activations a day" was when there were $30 and free Android phones. Now the 3GS, which is two years old is outselling every other Android phone and the gap in market share has closed up substantially.

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RE: .

By TakinYourPoints on 1/15/2012 10:43:44 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Not even close.

You're right but you have it backwards: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s...

quote:
No. That would be Microsoft.

We're talking about mobile platforms. iOS has far and away the best developer support in that arena.

Funny you mention Microsoft though, they have been one of the biggest iOS developers since the beginning. They have almost two dozen full featured apps on iOS (not the 5 or so Bing/MSN gateways like on Android) and are releasing Office for iOS later this year. Thanks for helping me make a point though.

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RE: .

By testerguy on 1/16/2012 3:55:25 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
quote: fastest mobile hardware Not even close.

You're right. iPhone 4S has the fastest mobile hardware and it isn't even close.

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RE: .

By Reclaimer77 on 1/15/2012 7:42:37 AM , Rating: 2

More apps = better platform! Amirite??

I hear BabyShake 2.0 is right around the corner! The world holds it's breath...

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RE: .

By TakinYourPoints on 1/15/2012 9:11:24 PM , Rating: 2

Yup, more apps and more developers = better platform. Microsoft for one is a pretty good developer to have, they make amazing iOS apps that aren't on Android, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Sorry!

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RE: .

By testerguy on 1/16/2012 3:52:57 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
More apps = better platform! Amirite??

Turn your question around.

Does less apps = better platform?

Didn't think so :-)

And by the way, BabyShake is also out on Android.

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RE: .

By LordSojar on 1/16/2012 2:17:11 AM , Rating: 1

quote:
Yup, they have the fastest mobile hardware along with the largest selection of applications and best developer support by miles

Tegra3 would like a discussion with you... a 4 way discussion with a 5th person coming in every so often when things get dull to beat you with a frying pan.

Also... Uh.... Hello, my name is open source development, but you can just call me Bob... I have more developer's licenses yielding more variety and competition... WHY YES, I am better! Thanks for asking!

And really... how many fart apps does one need? I mean, seriously, please answer that question. I find myself in need of exactly ZERO of them. As a matter of fact, I find myself in need of only about 20 apps on my phone and my tablet because guess what?? I have a fully functional, non-mobile in any fashion, browser that supports ALL forms of web content up to and including Flash.

Oh, and guess what else? My hardware on my Prime will let me install Windows 8... Game. Set. Match. FLAWLESS VICTORY. I won't even bother to do the button combination for my fatality... give you a hint about what it is though; it has to do with hardware support longevity. OOOPS.

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RE: .

By testerguy on 1/16/2012 3:48:31 AM , Rating: 2

By 'Tegra3' are you referring to the not-yet-released in a smartphone processor? And are you missing the fact that the processor is only half of the story, especially given that iOS, for example, is GPU hardware accelerated?

How about we deal with phones which have actually been released and benchmarked? The processor in the Nexus is <10% faster when dealing with javascript when compared to the iPhone 4S. The graphics are up to 3x slower. The <10% isn't noticeable. 3x faster graphics are. The Samsung Galaxy S2 has both a slower CPU and slower graphics. Those are the two leading Android handsets right now. Clearly, then, the iPhone 4S boasts the performance crown right now.

Open Source development is not relevant to apps, only to Android. The source code for Android 3 was never even released. And open source for Android developments are never implemented for the majority of Android users so that leads to more fragmentation anyway. Essentially, just because an operating system is open source means nothing when you are an app developer, because you cannot assume that your end users have installed a particular open source ROM etc. So, that brings us back to all the reasons iOS developer support is better (which have already been covered by others).

Are you really trying to contend that the only reason iOS has more apps is that they are all 'fart' apps? That would make you look pretty silly. If not, you render your point irrelevant. You choose - irrelevant or silly?

You can use flash on an iPhone using Skyfire, so that argument is irrelevant.

And wanting to install Windows 8 on a phone? That should be negative points.

So basically all of your points: not yet released (and only half of the performance equation), misguided beliefs on what open source actually means, false assumption that iOS only has additional apps over Android which are 'fart' apps, misguided claim that you can't use flash on iOS, and completely useless things like wanting to install Windows 8.

And you describe that as flawless? LOL.

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RE: .

By sprockkets on 1/16/2012 5:28:08 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
testerguy...

Do you have a life?

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RE: .

By TakinYourPoints on 1/18/2012 10:14:18 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Tegra3 would like a discussion with you... a 4 way discussion with a 5th person coming in every so often when things get dull to beat you with a frying pan.

You mean the same Tegra 3 that was either even with (browser performance) or crushed (GPU performance) by the A5 that was released eight months earlier?

But MOAR COREZ = FASTER according to you, so ok, cool. It's like hearing from the Bulldozer fanboys or the Pentium 4 fanboys back in the day that it was the best hardware because MOAR MEGAHURTZ!!!1

quote:
Also... Uh.... Hello, my name is open source development, but you can just call me Bob... I have more developer's licenses yielding more variety and competition... WHY YES, I am better! Thanks for asking!

Yes, flourishing open source development is why I'm on the open Ubuntu instead of the closed Windows. After all, it's open so it has to have more developers and applications, right?

Oh, wait: http://blog.flurry.com/bid/79061/App-Developers-Be...

Of course, you know you can't win your argument so you fall back on the tired and lazy iFart Defense. Sad.

Maybe you'd install more applications if you hardware had real horsepower and developer support.

Come on dude, this is a tech site, I thought people here used their brains.

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Moto can stand its own ground -thank you!.

By fteoath64 on 1/14/2012 1:40:23 AM , Rating: 2

This shows Moto Mobility (soon owned by Google) can fend off attacks to its Android handsets. It is also the last big manufacturer to not pay MicroSoft that "extortion" license on Android patents which MS claims infringe upon theirs.

This is a legal challenge for MicroSoft to "come and get us, if you dare". And you can see that for 2012, MicroSoft would NOT DARE take them to court. Be mindful that lawyers in google are looking at every piece of their patents to determine if infringement can be justified.

RE: Moto can stand its own ground -thank you!.

By Just Tom on 1/15/2012 9:24:35 AM , Rating: 2

You are aware that Google has lost its share of patent infringement cases? And that Microsoft has lawyers too?

It is probably impossible in todays business environment not to infringe on tech patents. It is why we see so many cross licensing agreements.

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Google

By CityZen on 1/14/2012 12:23:19 AM , Rating: 2

Was Google's purchase of Motorola Mobility finally approved or not? What's the status of that?

Apple

By rich876 on 1/15/2012 10:30:48 AM , Rating: 2

Apple is a very greedy company and that is what will kill them. They are silly with their patent rights. It's okay for them to steal patents like they did with the Palm, but now okay for what should not even be considered a patent.

iWannaGoHome...

By ProZach on 1/16/2012 3:55:02 AM , Rating: 2

"...these gavel-wielding people just aren't cool enough to observe a master brand."

Joking aside, I am glad to see Motorola get out from under if only for the simple fact of Android vs. Android competition, and also HTC and the rest. Yes, there is more at stake here than an Apple issue, it will be nice to see the open market actually function as such.

Presently this market has limited interest for me in this current state, I just bought a mobile phone outright that works for me without draining my wallet. My consumer position is to buy a device in the future comparable to those produced nowadays for reasons like: less expensive, less buggy and possibly better subscription/data terms. This is possible because advancements in mobile technology will continue from all sides of competition without hindrance. If patience is not a virtue it's at least a cost saver for the average joe.

Awesome

By atlmann10 on 1/15/2012 3:29:16 PM , Rating: 1

This is actually way bigger than most realize for one reason, Motorola Mobility is now owned by Google, who also happens too own Android! SO this by default as the owner of Android extends to all makers of Android equipment licensed by Google. So Samsung, HTC, LG etc etc also receive this as does anyone licensed by Google the owner of Motorola Mobility.