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This was originally supposed to be an update to our coverage of the different editions of Windows 7, but due to all the emails, questions, and comments, we have decide to expand it into something more. Please read the original article first to avoid confusion.

Which editions will include Windows Media Center?

Windows 7 Home Premium and all editions above it will include Windows Media Center.

What is a clean installation?

A clean installation consists of removing all data from your hard disk by repartitioning and reformatting your hard disk, thus making it completely empty (clean). The Operating System is then installed, followed by the reinstallation of programs and the restoration of user data from backups.

Why would Microsoft sell an Ultimate Edition? Who would buy it?

The Ultimate edition is a retail and OEM version of the Enterprise edition plus a few extras. The Ultimate edition is usually Microsoft's highest margin retail OS product, so they make more money for a little bit more work.

There is a small but profitable group out there who will pay extra to get the best. They are the ones who buy the Extreme edition CPUs, Core i7 systems, and Crossfire/SLI GPUs. This is the target market for the Ultimate edition.

What's up with Professional and Enterprise? Why don't they just make a Business edition?

Microsoft used to keep separate codebases for consumers and businesses. That was back in the days of the Windows 9x and NT codebases. The codebases were merged together into Windows XP, simplifying development.

However, the market has changed in the last ten years, and corporations are demanding greater product features and product differentiation in order to cut costs.

A small business will not need Branch Caching and will not want to pay for it, but group policy controls and location aware printing might be something they would want to pick. By having a Professional and Enterprise edition, they are able to meet a wider range of considerations, and charge appropriately for it.

As we stated, the Enterprise edition is targeted at Fortune 1000 companies. Most SMBs will choose Windows 7 Professional.

Microsoft was actually considering another edition for businesses, but decided not to pursue it.

Windows 7 Starter and Home Basic editions are crap. Why would anybody pay for it?

Windows 7 Starter and Windows Home Basic are to be sold exclusively through Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs). They are preinstalled on new computers, and are not designed to be bought at retail by consumers. Microsoft sells these cut-down versions for a very low price. Since they are bundled with the computer, the cost to the consumer is not visible.

While Linux is essentially free, return rates on Linux netbooks are FOUR times that of netbooks running Windows. Most of those RMAs are due to new Linux users being unfamiliar with the OS and unwilling to spend time to get used to it.

On a holistic basis, Linux netbooks cost more to support, which is why ASUS is selling their Linux netbooks for more than their Windows equivalents.

Microsoft is also trying to build market share in low cost computers and in developing countries. By offering these to OEMs at low prices, they are ensuring that a new generation of computer users are exposed to Windows. Later on, they will probably continue to choose Windows because they are used to it, as we are seeing in North America and Europe.

There are no restrictions from Microsoft on installing Home Premium on netbooks. It is more an issue with raising the price of a low cost netbook, and the unnecessary performance degradation that will be experienced. OEMs can also use Home Basic as an alternative instead of Starter.

In fact, Microsoft would very much like for you to choose to pay extra for Home Premium over a virtually free Starter edition.

Why would someone choose Starter edition over Ultimate/Professional/Home Premium? Ultimate is l333t!!!

The cost of the retail product will increase as you choose a higher edition. Not everybody wants to pay for Windows Media Center just to run Windows 7 on a netbook.

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I dont understand...
By freeagle on 2/5/2009 10:33:47 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
There is a small but profitable group out there who will pay extra to get the best. They are the ones who buy the Extreme edition CPUs, Core i7 systems, and Crossfire/SLI GPUs. This is the target market for the Ultimate edition.


What do game enthusiasts need all the business features of Ultimate for?




RE: I dont understand...
By arazok on 2/5/2009 10:50:02 AM , Rating: 5
They buy it for one of two reasons:

Gamers who are also programmers, and need all of the enterprise tools. Years ago I got burnt buying XP Home, only to discover that you could not run IIS on it. So now I tent to lean towards getting Ultimate, just to ensure I have all the functionality.

The other people are people who want all the “Ultimate Extras” that Microsoft won’t deliver.


RE: I dont understand...
By Spivonious on 2/5/2009 11:24:56 AM , Rating: 2
7 Professional will be fine for you. No need to spend the extra on Ultimate this time around, unless you really need to boot from a VHD file.


RE: I dont understand...
By arazok on 2/5/2009 11:53:55 AM , Rating: 2
I leaning towards that this time. I’ll really miss dreamscape crashing all the time though…


RE: I dont understand...
By TomZ on 2/5/2009 12:22:14 PM , Rating: 3
Why not simply run a VM host like VPC2007, VMWare, etc.? Booting a VHD, while slightly cool, is pretty cumbersome just to run a single app.


RE: I dont understand...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/5/2009 12:41:33 PM , Rating: 2
Virtual Machines will decent, are not 100% like running on metal. The ability to boot completely into a VHD will come in handy and I have big plans for it already.


RE: I dont understand...
By TomZ on 2/5/2009 12:46:09 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, but for running a single ill-behaved app...? Seems like overkill, no?

Too bad they didn't put a decent user interface over the boot-VHD functionality in Windows 7. The descriptions I've seen so far seem to require a bunch of "hacking"-type operations to get that to work. I haven't tried it yet, though - that's just my first impression so far.


RE: I dont understand...
By Hellfire27 on 2/5/2009 4:16:33 PM , Rating: 2
This is enormously useful in the server world (especially when downtime needs to be minimal during a server crash), but this is probably overkill for most home users. Unless of course you are using home brewed servers for webhosting and such.


RE: I dont understand...
By UNHchabo on 2/5/2009 5:18:21 PM , Rating: 4
Probably true. With Vista, Ultimate was useful because Home Premium came with the Media Center, but not the professional features, while Business came with the professional features, but not the Media Center. Hence, Vista Ultimate was the primary choice for gamer-programmers and the like.


RE: I dont understand...
By PaxtonFettel on 2/5/2009 10:54:39 AM , Rating: 4
They dont. The main thing the 'enthusiast' market want from Ultimate is the name 'ultimate' stmaped on it, dys?


RE: I dont understand...
By Mr Perfect on 2/5/2009 1:28:35 PM , Rating: 5
The man speaks the truth. People just want to think they have a superior product.

Microsoft could make even more money on a Windows 7 Audiophile edition.


RE: I dont understand...
By TomZ on 2/5/2009 1:52:59 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree - owning Ultimate doesn't give you any "street cred." I think the value in Ultimate is knowing that it has all the features the OS has to offer, whether you need them now or in the future.

For example, I use Remote Desktop a lot (daily). One thing I didn't realize was that the RDC server didn't exist in Vista below Ultimate. Since I'm using Ultimate, I'm covered.

It's not a really strong case, but for people where the few bucks difference between editions doesn't matter much, it's nice to have Ultimate for the extra included features.


RE: I dont understand...
By Mr Perfect on 2/6/2009 12:05:03 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, Remote Desktop would be really strong case for businesses. We use it constantly at work for accessing servers and client machines alike. Thankfully, machines running Vista Business with SP1 do let you connect to them using Remote Desktop. I don't know if they did pre-SP1 though, we didn't have a Vista Buisness rig until after the service pack launched.


RE: I dont understand...
By wallijonn on 2/5/2009 1:14:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
What do game enthusiasts need all the business features of Ultimate for?


"All"? Their reason may be for Security and Account Privileges. In the case of XP Home all user accounts had Admin privs by default - which made it easy to get viruses, trojans and bots. Make it so that when playing a game the rest of the OS is secure, that to play a game one doesn't need Admin privs, make it so that the firewall doesn't go nuts and prevent a game from playing.


RE: I dont understand...
By PrezWeezy on 2/5/2009 1:24:49 PM , Rating: 2
They also left out a huge portion of the Ultimate market. A small business may not want all of their machines to have all the stuff in Enterprise, but for notebooks bitlocker is a huge push for buying Ultimate, as well as if the business has two offices and one or two people travel between them. Then they would buy a few Ultimate licenses so they get the branch cache and other features in Enterprise.


RE: I dont understand...
By PrinceGaz on 2/5/2009 7:05:58 PM , Rating: 5
There is also another huge portion of the Ultimate "market" based on my experience of which versions of Vista are most widely made available unofficially. I'd say that over 50% of illegal Vista installations will be of Vista Ultimate, because pirates almost always choose to make available the best possible version of a given product- when they have a choice.

I'm not saying I've ever checked, let alone downloaded copies of Vista, but I suspect it would be far easier to get Vista Ultimate SP1 than Home Premium SP1, and it would be almost impossible to find a pirated copy of Home Basic SP1, because there is no demand for it.

Who runs Vista Ultimate? I'd say it falls into two main groups-- those where money is no object to them, and those where no money was involved.


RE: I dont understand...
By Lugaidster on 2/6/2009 7:08:32 AM , Rating: 3
To be fair, most Vista DVD's I know come with all the versions included. So you aren't downloading Vista [insert version here], you are just downloading Vista.

Now, you probably are right in that most pirates install Ultimate over anything else.


One thing you forgot to mention
By Screwballl on 2/5/2009 10:02:12 AM , Rating: 3
By OEMs bundling the Starter/Home Basic, people that want the extra features in Home Premium or Ultimate will allow Microsoft to not only make money on the original OEM license to the vendor, but also the extra money from uneducated/unsuspecting people thinking they "need" the Ultimate for their Netbook or low power/older machines.




RE: One thing you forgot to mention
By mmntech on 2/5/09, Rating: -1
RE: One thing you forgot to mention
By TomZ on 2/5/2009 10:35:22 AM , Rating: 3
In reality, consumers will only choose from 2 different editions, so really it's not that complicated.


By othercents on 2/5/2009 11:20:25 AM , Rating: 2
The Starter Edition is a great way for computer builders to offset their costs. Instead of loading the Premium version they load Starter and when the user boots up the computer they are they faced with a decision to upgrade from Starter to Home, Premium, or Ultimate for an extra cost. Now the computers cost the builder $100 less to build while maintaining the same selling point.

This is no different than Dell and HP loading the 90 day trial of Office Standard 2007 on every machine. This entices non-technical people to buy the software instead of pirating it. Plus once someone uses it for 90 days creating a bunch of documents they now have to buy or loose access to their stuff.

Other


By Spivonious on 2/5/2009 10:37:55 AM , Rating: 2
Um, they did replace the head of the Windows division. Steve Sinofksy (of Office 2007 fame) took over for the development of Windows 7.


RE: One thing you forgot to mention
By tastyratz on 2/5/2009 10:50:21 AM , Rating: 2
I suppose it should be interesting once we actually see price points on these editions.
The fact that Microsoft actually sells them as editions in this manner is rather ludicrous. I STILL feel enterprise and professional should have been merged. Whether or not those features were aimed at businesses that operate on a larger scale does not mean they still provide enough value. From what I can see enterprise edition will most likely not provide additional value to warrant what they will probably charge for the license. There is not a wide enough difference - and there shouldn't be.

If they MUST package them separately it would be wise to not sell it as a completely separate OS. Sell an ultimate "add on suite" or enterprise "add on pack" module that could be integrated. While its similar in nature it is far less confusing to consumers whether retail or business.


RE: One thing you forgot to mention
By Spivonious on 2/5/2009 11:23:39 AM , Rating: 2
Enterprise has more features than Professional, and is volume-licensed only. Combining it would only raise the cost of Professional. See my post below linking to Paul Thurrott.


By tastyratz on 2/5/2009 12:55:15 PM , Rating: 2
slightly more features. Its differentiation is debatable IMHO based on what they have released about it so far.

Also, Microsoft has said they don't really know what they are doing with ultimate yet. It would be stupid to make ultimate and enterprise exactly the same with just a name change and different key requirements - running a different sku wouldn't be wise then. If that was the case then consolidating those and accepting both key types at install would be the most logical decision.

I think the most likely scenario would be Microsoft having a few new features up their sleeve for ultimate. A prosumer wont care about things like app locker and branch cache but they are the target audience in a retail setting.

Microsoft will obviously have to bring SOMETHING to the table attracting prosumers besides an elite name.


RE: One thing you forgot to mention
By Penti on 2/9/2009 7:42:22 AM , Rating: 2
W7 Enterprise = W7 Professional COA and Volume license agreement. A volume license agreement will all ways bring more then simply the OS, like sysprep tools, downgrade, upgrade of OS, virtual machines and so fort. It's the only license which allows you to build a custom image which you can deploy on all machines. It's a service which you can't really stick on a COA.


RE: One thing you forgot to mention
By Screwballl on 2/5/2009 11:28:51 AM , Rating: 3
Ubuntu has many more than just 2, but those 2 are the main suggested distros...

Ubuntu
Kubuntu
Gobuntu
Xubuntu
Edubuntu
Ubuntu CE

and others

plus add in there the regular LTS, the bi-yearly release and server versions and you have 20+ versions of Ubuntu


By UNHchabo on 2/5/2009 5:22:43 PM , Rating: 2
The primary difference is that none of those versions of Ubuntu are intentionally crippled. There's also the fact that each of those versions is just a matter of pre-installed software. Kubuntu is for people who don't like the Gnome interface, so they use KDE instead. Edubuntu has educational software installed by default.

There's nothing stopping you from installing Ubuntu, then installing KDE to make a "Kubuntu" system.


By Mindless Rambler on 2/7/2009 12:54:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ubuntu has many more than just 2, but those 2 are the main suggested distros...

Strictly speaking, Ubuntu is the only distribution that Canonical releases as most of your examples are merely packs of software tacked on to Ubuntu that can be installed or uninstalled with a few mouse clicks.

quote:
Ubuntu

So far, so good.

quote:
Kubuntu

Nope, not a new distro, just Ubuntu with the software pack "kubuntu-desktop" installed.

quote:
Gobuntu

Nope, not a new distro, just Ubuntu without nonfree software. Also, Gobuntu doesn't exist as of about a year ago.

quote:
Xubuntu

Nope, not a new distro, just Ubuntu with the software pack "xubuntu-desktop" installed.

quote:
Edubuntu

Nope, not a new distro, just Ubuntu with the software pack "edubuntu-desktop" installed.

quote:
Ubuntu CE

Wow dude, you just dumped a couple tons of fail there. Are you honestly trying to pass off a third-party derivation as one of Canonical's releases? Even then, it's just another case of tacked on software.

quote:
and others

Gauging from your last example, is this supposed to refer to the slew of third-party derivations that Canonical has nothing to do with?

quote:
plus add in there the regular LTS, the bi-yearly release and server versions and you have 20+ versions of Ubuntu

Look at this, you can't even keep your own story straight. This was about editions of Windows, then you come in and talk about distros of Ubuntu (despite the technical impossibility of that) and now you're talking about versions of Ubuntu.

With this wishy-washy word salad of yours, I can conclude that Windows has 12+ editions/distros/versions (not counting service packs and service releases), Windows NT has 53+ editions/distros/versions (not counting service packs and Windows 7), and OS X has 8+ editions/distros/versions (not counting non-desktop/non-server items like the iPhone), and all three of those were quite conservative counts. So, by your own enigmatic arithmetic, Windows is still the worst offender regarding edition/distro/version sprawl.


By zolo111 on 2/8/2009 12:12:40 PM , Rating: 2
You mean the 95% of people who bought laptop/desktop with pre-installed OS? Those people tend to purchase systems and don't care/know what the OS is (ultimate, HP,..ect) as long as it's Vista.

I helped 2 of my friends purchase thier dell laptops, one opted for the cheapest option ( Vista Basic ) the other insisted to get Ultimate eventhough he doesn't know what the differences are, he just thought that Ultimate meant more secured, more advanced OS for some odd reason. But the rest of the population who go to Best Buy or whatever to purchase thier systems, don't look or base thier purchase on the OS version..


By PrezWeezy on 2/5/2009 1:27:50 PM , Rating: 3
Sorry but if you're going to drop a few hundred bucks on something, and that ammount of money is important to you, do some research. I don't feel sorry for people who are stupid and don't read up on what they are buying. All of the editions are labeled for what the purpose is.


Home Basic
By Spivonious on 2/5/2009 10:36:41 AM , Rating: 2
According to Paul Thurrott, Home Basic is only for "emerging markets."

Also, Enterprise = Ultimate as far as features go. The only difference is the licensing.

http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/win7_skus.asp




RE: Home Basic
By Spivonious on 2/5/2009 10:46:38 AM , Rating: 2
I figured I'd summarize what Paul says:

Starter (OEM only) - marketed towards netbooks, 3 app limit, no aero, no thumbnail previews, no media center

Home Basic (OEM only) - emerging markets only, essentially starter without the app limit

Home Premium (OEM/Retail) - similar to Vista H.P., has aero, media center

Professional (OEM/Retail) - similar to Vista Business but includes media center

Enterprise (Volume Licensing only) - similar to Vista Ultimate, includes Bitlocker, boot from VHD

Ultimate (OEM/Retail) - same as Enterprise, but single licenses

So the choice really comes down to Home Premium, Professional, or Ultimate. I'd guess most "enthusiasts" get Professional, most regular users would get Home Premium. And idiots get Ultimate, just because they "have to have the best".


RE: Home Basic
By taisingera on 2/5/2009 11:12:09 AM , Rating: 2
For netbooks, ok, I can see not having aero or media center, due to the lousy graphics, but a 3 app limit, that is a serious joke.


RE: Home Basic
By aftlizard on 2/5/2009 11:25:58 AM , Rating: 2
My question is: Does that mean a three app limit installed on the machine or just that only three apps can be active at one time? If it's the latter I think that is a good thing and not a bad thing, well for current netbook technology anyways. If it's the former that is a terrible terrible thing.


RE: Home Basic
By aftlizard on 2/5/2009 11:28:24 AM , Rating: 2
Nevermind. I found this:

"Just the three simultaneous application limit, though, could be enough to push many away from Starter. Three applications may sound like a decent number, until you remember those two instant messaging programs you like to run. Plus, there are all kinds of things that run in the background, such as antivirus software and other programs. Microsoft said that background services running in the system tray don't automatically count against the three program limit, but do count if a user opens up the full program associated with the service."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10155943-56.html


RE: Home Basic
By Spivonious on 2/5/2009 11:36:55 AM , Rating: 3
Still, what do you run on a netbook? Browser, email, maybe a word processor? Want to run a virus scan, okay you'll have to close the word processor first.

I don't like the limit, and I don't imagine it will sell very well, but it will help people to not expect too much from their $250 laptop.


RE: Home Basic
By noirsoft on 2/5/2009 1:36:39 PM , Rating: 2
Do you want to have to close Word to open Calculator? What about an IM program or a media player? A netbook can handle all that. I'm doing it right now.

I can understand the purpose of Starter and Home Basic in emerging markets, but really hope that there is an easy option to get Home Premium on netbooks sold in the US and other mainstream markets.


RE: Home Basic
By Arribajuan on 2/5/2009 5:13:06 PM , Rating: 2
well; word, notepad, ie, outlook... crap!!!

while that might be ok for a free version, it is just not right for something you are paying for and completely misses the netbook market.

no aero, that is ok, the netbook might not be able to handle it; fancy features, dvd maker, etc. are also not needed.

but the 3 app limit will never be good in any netbook no matter how cheap.

I hope they release a starter or basic as it is without that restriction. That will make a good product for entry level netbooks and pcs.


RE: Home Basic
By Penti on 2/9/2009 8:05:08 AM , Rating: 2
They will probably put together a version/license for netbooks any how, W7 HP will simply cost to much, 150 for the OS is too much for a netbook. It's the same as XP Starter and Vista Starter a edition nobody uses. Normally Vista HB is much more expensive then the Windows XP Home edition that's sold with netbooks.


That's great but
By Integral9 on 2/5/2009 10:50:14 AM , Rating: 3
Will it blend?




RE: That's great but
By PhoenixKnight on 2/5/2009 10:59:28 AM , Rating: 4
That is the question.


RE: That's great but
By greylica on 2/5/2009 1:08:29 PM , Rating: 1
It blends, but slower, like Vista...

benchmark cube under Blender: ( Draw )

Fedora Linux: 14500 times.

Windows 7 at startup: 95 times.
Windows 7 Nvidia Driver: 4000 times.
Windows Vista at startup : 83 times
Windows Vista Nvidia Driver : 3600 times.

Rig: 4Gb DDR_2-800, Athlon X2 6200, Seagate Sata 7200, Nvidia 8600GT 512MB.


RE: That's great but
By TomZ on 2/5/2009 1:19:40 PM , Rating: 4
I'm guessing the OP was referring to this: http://www.willitblend.com/


RE: That's great but
By greylica on 2/6/2009 9:32:45 AM , Rating: 2
And the answer is:

Yes, like the bic lighters !


RE: That's great but
By Spivonious on 2/6/2009 9:52:59 AM , Rating: 2
I just want to know what those blades are made of. They turned three cast-iron models of cars into dust in under a minute (Nissan GTR video).


Claify?
By theapparition on 2/5/2009 11:02:45 AM , Rating: 3
I'd like clarification on "clean" install. Previously, a clean install meant that it could be written "over" an existing operating system. Files were left intact.

Jason,
Are you implying that the only way Windows7 can be installed is by reformatting the harddrive? If so, I don't think many people will be willing to lose pictures of "fishing with Uncle Erl" or thier MP3 library. However, I think you just mistated this and should clarify.




RE: Claify?
By theapparition on 2/5/2009 11:04:16 AM , Rating: 1
Excuse me, Jansen.

Hello edit button.....you're out there somewhere.


RE: Claify?
By Spivonious on 2/5/2009 11:22:18 AM , Rating: 2
Installing "over" an existing operating system is called an in-place upgrade, not a clean install.

You can keep your existing OS installation (older than Vista), but you must install 7 in a different location. It then sets up your machine to dual-boot. If you have Vista, you can do an in-place upgrade, but the install takes roughly 3x as long since it's actually upgrading files instead of just copying over an image.


RE: Claify?
By theapparition on 2/5/2009 1:11:57 PM , Rating: 1
I've never heard the term "in-place" upgrade before and think possibly are getting terms messed up.

What I've done before was both upgrades (version x -> version x+1) where it keeps all program setting, et al. I've also done "clean" installs where (even in XP setup), the install will detect older versions and give you the choice to delete existing information and write new files from the disk. This would not be (IMHO) considered an upgrade of any sort.

Thanks for the limited claification, but the author of this article specifically stated that you have to format your hard drive (or partition) to install. Something that I take issue with and don't believe is true.


RE: Claify?
By Starcub on 2/5/2009 4:36:57 PM , Rating: 2
From the article:
quote:
The Operating System is then installed, followed by the reinstallation of programs and the restoration of user data from backups.

This makes it sound like Windows 7 will somehow image the old OS (in a temp partition?) before starting the install, and when Windows 7 is newly installed, re-install the apps and settings (from the saved image) as part of the Windows 7 OS installation upgrade process. I'm not sure this is practical, nor do I know why this would be prefferable to an in-place upgrade, except that the install would be more secure. I wouldn't mind seeing further clarification myself.


RE: Claify?
By TomZ on 2/5/2009 6:31:22 PM , Rating: 2
Uh, no; that would be a manual process. The Windows setup is not going to do that part for you automatically.


RE: Claify?
By Fritzr on 2/5/2009 9:20:53 PM , Rating: 2
To clarify
Clean install: Format disk then install ... there are no files to keep

Upgrade/Repair: Replace existing program files with the new code from the install disk. Then update the registry to edit references to old code to point to new code when the reference changed. You often get a file on disk is newer error when doing this. This prompt allows you to keep driver updates or replace them with the MS packaged driver.

One of the install hacks for Vista was to do a clean install of Vista UNACTIVATED, then immediately "upgrade" the currently installed Vista and activate it. This worked because you were allowed to do a clean install using a Vista Upgrade SKU as long as you did not try to activate it. Then when reinstalled the Upgrade test for prev version was satisfied when it found a pre-existing copy of Vista on disk :P

The only difference between a repair and an upgrade is whether the existing version is the same or earlier. The installer should abort if you try to upgrade to an earlier version

Note that a clean install begins by formatting the disk and an upgrade does not format the disk. Just remember which one does not erase your data :)


RE: Claify?
By Spivonious on 2/6/2009 9:45:09 AM , Rating: 1
No offense to the author, but he comes across as not really knowing what he's talking about.

"Clean install" in Microsoft's head means that it must be installed on a clean drive/partition. It will not overwrite an XP installation. If an XP installation exists on the drive/partition you wish to install 7, you must wipe out the XP install first.

"Upgrade" in Microsoft's head means that you own a license to an older version, so they're going to cut you a break on the price of the new version. All you have to do is provide proof that you own the older version. In Vista, this meant you had to have an XP installation. I believe in 7 they are going back to the old way of just having you insert the installation disk of the older version before installing 7.


They have got to be kidding!!
By MrBlastman on 2/5/2009 12:29:11 PM , Rating: 1
"What is a clean installation?

A clean installation consists of removing all data from your hard disk by repartitioning and reformatting your hard disk, thus making it completely empty (clean). The Operating System is then installed, followed by the reinstallation of programs and the restoration of user data from backups."

Are they joking? Are they serious? I am sorry, but I have been building PC's on the side for almost 20 years now, and for the last 12 years I have rotated the same dataset per partition (while building on it) over each generation of PC. I typically rotate hard drives out every 5 - 6 years with a new one in, I maintain multiple partitions on each drive and currently have 3 primary data drives of varying ages.

My typical procedure when I install a new motherboard into the machine for the OS portion is to:

a. Export individual registry entries for key programs
b. Back up Documents and Settings directory with user/application profile information including desktop and start menu settings
c. Install new version of Windows to a new directory on C: (or whatever partition I choose, typically OS's reside on C:) while having it create a dual-boot entry so the old OS is still accessible.
d. Import registry entries (NOT THE WHOLE OLD ONE, just pieces), setup the documents/settings directories for the user
e. done - enjoy, observe for problems, correct where needed. Eventually discard the old OS install after things are moving smoothly.

Format is not part of my vocabulary. I try to format my hard drives one time - when I take them out of the box and put them in my PC.

Being forced to format to install a new OS is rediculous unless there is a significant change to the filesystem structure. Otherwise - it is absurd. Being forced to repartition on top of that - RIDICULOUS! We partition our drives for a reason - to keep data segregated so if an application or program goes haywire on one, we minimize the exposure to other areas of the drives. I for one can not see any logic in being required to do a complete utter clean install of a total drive for this Operating System.

Unless of course, I'm presented some facts to back up why.




RE: They have got to be kidding!!
By TomZ on 2/5/2009 12:38:32 PM , Rating: 3
I prefer clean installs because it also clears out accumuled application "crap" that even uninstallers leave behind.

Also, it is easier to simply re-install applications rather than reverse engineering their various hooks into the OS. For example, configuration information written outside of the registry, installed dependent components, etc.

Even for user settings/preferences. It is quick and easy to re-do preferences for the OS and apps. It's not even worth screwing around with the registry, etc.

I think you're creating a lot of work for nothing. I can clean-install a machine with OS, all my apps, and data in a couple of hours, and it is a reliable process that is easy to duplicate.


By MrBlastman on 2/5/2009 12:45:14 PM , Rating: 2
Well, many programs I will do a fresh install on due to those dependencies you mentioned. There are quite a few though that don't require that and will work right away once I'm back up and running.

It takes me maybe 15 minutes at most to export the registry keys that are app specific and rename a couple folders. No more than that - so it is pretty efficient. I'll click on the icon, if stuff works - great, if not, reinstall the app.

Either way, whether importing entries or reinstalling an app, it is still far more efficient than having to reformat, repartition, and reinstall everything on the entire drive (or restore from backup - which, could consist of ghost images on a network drive or tape for instance).


RE: They have got to be kidding!!
By Fritzr on 2/5/2009 9:49:38 PM , Rating: 2
Simple fact for doing a clean install when upgrading from XP or earlier. Vista and Win7 installers cannot upgrade WinXp or earlier versions.

If you install Vista on an XP system you have two options
1) Create a new partition to install Vista in
2) Format the disk to install Vista in
Actually there is a third option
3) Do not install Vista

Windows 7 is a member of the Vista family and can upgrade Vista installs. Vista was the first release of a new family.

You can still backup registry settings for programs when upgrading from Win9x, WinXP and Vista. Do not count on all your registry settings being compatible, but all saved profile settings for programs that still run should transfer. However the Windows installer will not do this for you. You can also use a third migrater program that will move all the nonsystem registry settings to the new install.

You do not need to format the disk. Just provide a partition. If the Windows installer does not like your current format or it finds an operating system that is not compatible, then the first step of the automated install is "format %SYSDRIVE% /s". Win 3.x, Win9x, WinXP & Vista all did this.

You do not need to repartition your drive. There I agree. The only time you repartition is when you need to add or remove a disk partition. For dual booting from a disk that has only a single partition then repartitioning using a tool like Partition Magic is needed, but for a simple install without preserving any file from a Non Microsoft OS, WinXP or earlier MS OS then you just run install and let it wipe the disk as the first step.

You then need to restore your data files, reinstall applications, restore saved reg settings.

Nothing new and from what you describe this is exactly what you consider "normal".

The repartioning comes from the first release of Vista. To "upgrade" a Win9x or WinXP system you had to create an empty partition to install Vista in. The upgrade install then looked for a previous install of Windows. If it found an appropriate install disk, an earlier Windows in another partition or it had installed over an existing install of Vista then it was a valid upgrade.


First rule...
By Marlin1975 on 2/5/09, Rating: 0
RE: First rule...
By Smilin on 2/5/2009 10:17:00 AM , Rating: 5
don't talk about fight club.


RE: First rule...
By mrubermonkey on 2/5/2009 4:41:45 PM , Rating: 2
And the second rule is. . .


Talk about not answering a question
By Ratinator on 2/5/2009 12:06:28 PM , Rating: 2
No offense but that was a horrible answer to the why someone would buy Ultimate edition. Only those who want the best hardware will buy ultimate is just a really bad generalization. How about actually listing the differences. There are many that will make use of Ultimate and not buy the best hardware around.




RE: Talk about not answering a question
By TomZ on 2/5/2009 12:20:10 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, and I would add that the correct answer to the question is that nobody knows yet the value proposition for Ultimate, since Microsoft hasn't really stated exactly what Ultimate extras will be included.

My opinion - Microsoft should create a high-end package like Ultimate that include Microsoft Office. That would probably be a hit.


By Topweasel on 2/5/2009 3:33:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My opinion - Microsoft should create a high-end package like Ultimate that include Microsoft Office. That would probably be a hit.


Yeah. Windows Ultimate with Office. It could just be an upgradable version of Basic installed. I mean just supporting word and excel docs would be a huge leap. Sell this for $350 and everything would be golden.

This removes the legal issue with bundling since not all versions have it and it helps push office as not only a work program but a tool everyone uses.


Crystal clear marketing campaign
By crystal clear on 2/6/2009 7:02:37 AM , Rating: 2
Windows 7 Starter edition could be very costly to M.S.because-

"A lot of people could be disappointed with Starter if they weren't aware of its limitations,"

"Microsoft will have to be crystal clear on what the Starter edition does and what it does not do,"

M.S. should caution buyers on this issue to prevent any class action suite like the one its almost losing on the Vista Capable issue.

If Vista Capable case was more about a hardware issue.then Win7 starter edition will be more about a software issue.




RE: Crystal clear marketing campaign
By TomZ on 2/6/2009 9:14:58 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft could easily allow users to purchase a key that unlocks that restriction. That way OEMs could distribute it cheaply or for free, users can have an easy upgrade path, and Microsoft could have a new revenue stream. Seems like a possible win-win-win, assuming the upgrade was priced appropriately.


By crystal clear on 2/6/2009 9:56:20 AM , Rating: 2
hi there !

We’ll also continue to offer Windows Starter edition, which will only be offered pre-installed by an OEM. Windows Starter edition will now be available worldwide.
This edition is available only in the OEM channel on new PCs limited to specific types of hardware.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/f...

Catch word - specific types of hardware ?

Wonder what that means in hardware specifications & its limitations.


By crystal clear on 2/6/2009 7:59:04 AM , Rating: 2
Win 7 starter edition is designed to be a Linux fighter for lowest-priced netbooks then Microsoft has a dirty surprises awaiting it in the future.

Intel is coming out with its own Linux based OS - Moblin.

Moblin v2 Core Alpha for Netbooks is out for testers to give their feedbacks & responses.

Tested Platforms:
Acer Aspire*One
Asus eeePC* 901
Dell Mini 9
MSI Wind

http://moblin.org/community/blogs/tshureih/2009/an...

Waiting for next release....could be interesting.

Curious to know Intel's target date for the release of the final version.




By TomZ on 2/6/2009 9:18:22 AM , Rating: 2
I really hate the idea of fragmentation of the OS market. It makes it tough for software publishers and hardware manufacturers to support software that works on multiple platforms. While it is not ideal that Microsoft has such a monopoly with Windows, it is very efficient for the business ecosystem that surrounds it.

But on the other hand, Apple has proven that if you put low-cost or free tools in the hands of the general public, there are enough people interested in developing small apps that add value for these types of platforms. The question is, would the average Netbook user running "Moblin" expect to be able to run MS Office, Quicken, etc.?


By Penti on 2/9/2009 8:23:33 AM , Rating: 2
Does the average XP H netbook user expect to be able to connect it to a domain which you can't? No.

Moblin will contain Open Office. And I don't really think a netbook buyer would buy Office 2007 Home edition for their XP Home netbook anyway when it costs 150 dollars. They might run a pirate copy though, but if they are smart enough to do that they understand what the pre-installed Open Office application is for any way. Moblin would really be a step up from the Linpus and Xandros crap.


XP for less?
By Shmak on 2/5/2009 11:08:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
On a holistic basis, Linux netbooks cost more to support, which is why ASUS is selling their Linux netbooks for more than their Windows equivalents.


This statement is a little confusing. I don't know where you got the information that Linux costs more to support. I thought that Asus was cutting costs with their EEE line by shipping them with Linux. You can find EEEs with 40gb SSDs and Linux for cheaper than equivalent models with 12gb SSDs and XP.




RE: XP for less?
By 7Enigma on 2/6/2009 8:35:04 AM , Rating: 3
Cost to support /= cost to build. Yes a Linux build is less expensive to build since the OS is free, but technical support costs will likely be higher since owners are also likely less familiar with Linux.


Bloatware...?
By pugster on 2/5/2009 10:14:51 AM , Rating: 2
I certainly hope that Windows 7 netbook version won't be a resource hog like Vista.




RE: Bloatware...?
By Screwballl on 2/5/2009 10:44:52 AM , Rating: 2
After using the beta, it is still a memory hog like Vista but it is actually put to good use and allows frequently used programs to start up faster and the OS just feels much faster and better put together than Vista.
I have a system with 2GB of DDR2-1066 and it runs W7 just as fast and quick as XP. Versus Vista is just slow as could be.


Clean Install
By SilentSin on 2/5/2009 10:42:54 AM , Rating: 2
Continued from previous article:
quote:
SilentSin:
What does Jansen mean when he says "clean" install? I sure as hell hope he doesn't mean XP users will have to buy the full version...

quote:
RE <Spivonious>: You can still use the upgrade version, but you'll have to reformat first. Given that they changed the video subsytem, audio subsystem, networking stack, user accounts, etc., trying to upgrade an existing copy of XP would be pointless.

Ok I see what you're saying, I just never went through the Vista install experience so I didn't know the options available. When you pop the upgrade DVD in at boot on an XP machine it will ask you where you want to install the fresh 'n clean version of Windows7. If you choose the WinXP partition it will tell you it will have to format it or choose a new/different partition I assume.

I didn't even realize that previously there was an option to "upgrade" from Win9x/2k to XP without reformatting...I can only imagine the nightmares that would have caused with troubleshooting and errors if it was even successful at all. That's where my confusion came from. I always choose to reformat when installing an OS regardless of the options, so I guess that will stay the same for me. Thanks.




RE: Clean Install
By lenardo on 2/5/2009 12:07:35 PM , Rating: 2
i installed the 32bit beta on an xp machine- going to installed windows 7 64bit on my wife's new computer-maybe mine too- when it comes out so that she can access all her ram...

all it did is move all the installed files to a new file called
windows.old

and installed windows 7 in "windows" and created a new desktop/mydocuments/program files.

in order to access to old files/programs, you have to re-install them - or -change the path to the program so it runs from c:\windows.old\program files\whatever folder\program you want to run(sometimes this does not work).


64-bit...?
By Noya on 2/5/2009 5:36:42 PM , Rating: 1
So, which versions are 64-bit?




RE: 64-bit...?
By Devo2007 on 2/6/2009 1:54:52 AM , Rating: 2
Probably anything from Home Premium and up will be offered in 32-bit and 64-bit formats.


Love this site
By Majes on 2/5/2009 9:57:04 AM , Rating: 2
I think I got all of the above information from reading the discussion here yesterday.

Nice.




Dear Microsoft...
By gochichi on 2/7/2009 4:26:35 PM , Rating: 2
About selling an Ultimate edition...

You know, this highly profitable small market of yours got burned with Vista Ultimate. What makes you think we'll sign up again? There were two main reasons to buy Vista Ultimate... one, the main one, is that Windows XP lasted FOREVER and EVER... so you're talking about a few dollars for the best OS for years to come. This time, Vista is finally getting into the swing of things only to be prematurely replaced by a new version of Vista.

The second reason was a lack of familiarity with so many editions of Windows... I didn't want to get burned by getting Home Premium or Business only to find that they were missing something. Now I pretty much know that Home Premium would suffice for my needs.

The editions were a lame thing. Windows XP had the right idea, two editions is as much as are needed... another Windows OS with 17 versions is really out of line. It's a good thing that Ubuntu keeps coming along.

You promised extras and never delivered, I would still like to see my money's worth out of these so-called extras (that were promised). To be perfectly honest, anything less than a free upgrade to Windows 7 (for Vista Ultimate users) is going to be a disappointment.

I tried Apple and so I'm not going to make empty threats about switching away from Windows but Microsoft is getting a little greedy these days. "Ultimate" simply means "not deliberately crippled". And that's sad, why would you sell crippled versions of your software when it would be far more satisfying for there to be one standard.




All I Wanna Know Is...
By cubdukat on 2/5/09, Rating: -1
RE: All I Wanna Know Is...
By Spivonious on 2/5/2009 11:33:48 AM , Rating: 3
1. No, a good install of Windows since 2000 hasn't done that. I do still see nVidia drivers causing troubles with Vista, but MS really doesn't have any control over that. In two years of Vista and a month of 7 Beta, I've had zero crashes.

2. Who knows? I imagine it will be about the same. Meaning Home Premium will run around $100 OEM, $130 upgrade, $200 retail.

3. Have you tried Linux? It's a nightmare unless you enjoy editing config files, scouring Google for what to put in those config files, and dealing with a UI that looks like it's from 1995.


RE: All I Wanna Know Is...
By TomZ on 2/5/2009 11:55:23 AM , Rating: 3
Suggest that you don't feed the trolls. Obviously this guy is a Linux user and advocate already. If this guy runs any version of Windows released in the past 7 years, then he would know that it doesn't crash often. He's either self-delusional or trying to spread FUD about Windows.


RE: All I Wanna Know Is...
By aftlizard on 2/5/2009 11:39:52 AM , Rating: 1
1. So far it's in Beta, but it hasn't crashed on me yet. And I haven't had a MS OS crash 'every 15 minutes' since Windows ME, piss be upon it.

2. God I hope so. I also would like to see them add three licenses to Premium like they do for Office and Vista Ultimate.

3. Sounds like you already know the answer to this.


RE: All I Wanna Know Is...
By Larrymon2000 on 2/5/09, Rating: 0
"Paying an extra $500 for a computer in this environment -- same piece of hardware -- paying $500 more to get a logo on it? I think that's a more challenging proposition for the average person than it used to be." -- Steve Ballmer

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