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Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid
Hybrid just kicked in yo!

Say the word “hybrid” and most drivers will think of smaller, odd-looking cars along the lines of the Prius or Insight which are aimed at saving fuel and reducing emissions. The benefits of a hybrid design in a performance car have some appeal as well, but hybrid and performance aren't usually said in the same sentence.

Porsche is certainly one of the most famed marquees in sports cars and the firm is no stranger to hybrid technology. Porsche is currently putting the finishing touches on the Cayenne Hybrid SUV that uses a supercharged 3.0-liter V6 coupled with an electric motor producing an extra 50HP.

Porsche is also looking at hybrid technology for the racetrack as well with the announcement that a 911 GT3 R Hybrid will be unveiled at the 2010 Geneva Auto Show. Porsche is using hybrid technology in its all-wheel-drive racing car for a few reasons. The car is currently being prepped for the 24 Hours of Le Mans, where vehicles race stopping for fuel and to switch drivers (along with any requisite repairs). The hybrid system used in the GT3 R Hybrid provides some fuel economy improvements, but Porsche is not saying exactly how much fuel it saves.

The hybrid system in the GT3 R Hybrid uses a flywheel system that harnesses kinetic energy under braking to power a pair of electric motors mounted in a single assembly. The electric motors and flywheel assembly sit where the passenger seat of a street 911 would normally reside. Power gathered by the flywheel system is sent to the front wheels and when fully charged the hybrid system can provide a 6-8 second burst of power for passing and exiting corners activated by a button on the steering wheel. The flywheel in the hybrid system will reportedly spin as fast as 40,000 rpm.

The pair of electric motors provides an additional 161 horsepower to the front wheels supplementing the 4.0-liter flat-6 that produces 480hp and sends its power to the rear wheels. Porsche is mum on performance claims for the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, but the car will appear on May 15 at the Nurburgring 24 Hours endurance race.



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KERS
By alanore on 2/11/2010 11:41:31 AM , Rating: 5
This technology is similar to the KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) that was used by some teams in the 2009 Formula 1 system. It is not like a hybrid drive system like a pirius.

Its designed for overtaking primarily, it requires breaking to recharge it during a lap, it therefore only useable for a limited amount of time. Possibly only 2% of the lap, and when the throttle is 100% open. Therefore it doesn't have a measurable increase in fuel economy.




RE: KERS
By Spuke on 2/11/2010 12:09:18 PM , Rating: 3
Sweet. I'll take two.


RE: KERS
By BigLan on 2/11/2010 12:24:10 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, it looks like the Williams system which also used a flywheel, rather than the batteries which the other teams used. I wonder if Porsche actually licensed this from Williams, who had bought the main flywheel developer.


RE: KERS
By Smilin on 2/11/2010 1:29:20 PM , Rating: 2
Williams didn't invent it so they wouldn't need a license.

There was a failed attempt to make a consumer vehicle based on this once. Saw some special on it ages ago.


RE: KERS
By JediJeb on 2/11/2010 1:54:11 PM , Rating: 2
I think that was almost 10 years ago maybe. I also think it was coupled with a gas turbine engine, and the entire system was designed by the former owner of Compaq computers.


RE: KERS
By alanore on 2/11/2010 3:28:50 PM , Rating: 2
Its been confirmed that it is the Williams F1 KERS system that is being used in the Porsche. There is a press release on williams website.

One thing to note is the Williams F1 did not use the system for the whole season, sometimes dropping it because of reliability/performance reasons.


RE: KERS
By Calin on 2/12/2010 2:22:26 AM , Rating: 2
Some Formula 1 tracks are fast, and some are slow. This Kinetic Energy Recovery System helps when you are traction limited (transforms a rear drive car into a 4WD) and when you have many accelerate/brake cycles (the engine accelerates the car when accelerating, and brakes the car as "engine brake" when braking). So, when you have long straight lines, your heavier car can be passed by lighter cars, but when exiting a tight curve, your harder car has better traction (4WD) and more power ("borrowed" from braking), and can pass lighter cars that use only engine power.


RE: KERS
By cnar77 on 2/12/2010 10:28:15 PM , Rating: 3
You obviously don't know that F1 rules only permit power to the rear wheels. Yes it's the Williams KERS (Kinetic Energy Recover System) system that was used. Williams never used it during 2009 because it was still in development and the weight and packaging within an F1 car requires the car be designed to accomodate the device. Other teams had problems being competitive in the first 1/2 of the season including Ferrari, BMW Sauber, Mclaren and Renault. Note that the previous minimum weight on an F1 car was 600kg and a KERS system weighed around 30kg and required additional space within the car.

On another note last years F1 cars lacked aerodynamic grip in the rear (Aero was front biased) and were loose as a result. More power to the rear wheels only compounds this and increases tyre wear due to excess wheel spin along with the lateral forces on the tyres. KERS was mostly used on the straights as a result while technically it did help under acceleration its use was not acceleration off the corner. This year (2010) Bridgestone has reduced the width of the front tyre. This reduces the loose tendancies of 2009 as the cars now have more mechanical grip at the back compared to last year. The diffuser rules also permits more aero grip and so far some teams have found in testing that the balance of the car has changed where front end grip is not as great compared to the rear as it was last year.


RE: KERS
By eggman on 2/11/2010 3:34:16 PM , Rating: 3
RE: KERS
By Griswold on 2/11/2010 4:40:37 PM , Rating: 1
Wow, that sucks for Porsche considering how unreliable and unsuccessful the Wialliams adaption of KERS was last season. They should have asked (McLaren) Mercedes to help them out - after all, they're neighbors. :D


RE: KERS
By eggman on 2/11/2010 5:20:01 PM , Rating: 2
Williams did not run it at all last year. They had plans all along to develop it and sell it. Maybe they would use it the second year but KERS causes too many compromises in the packaging of a modern F1 car so all agreed to not use them this year.


RE: KERS
By Spuke on 2/11/2010 5:53:16 PM , Rating: 2
F1 fans on DT!!!! That's awesome!!


RE: KERS
By Omega215D on 2/12/2010 3:17:41 AM , Rating: 2
F1, Rally/ WRC and MotoGP fan here. I only participate in the latter two (US Rally and amateur MotoGP).

Porsches are awesome (looks at bank accounts)... awww....


RE: KERS
By etriky on 2/12/2010 4:43:31 AM , Rating: 2
F1, WRC, MotoGP fan here also.


RE: KERS
By Aloonatic on 2/12/2010 5:26:44 AM , Rating: 2
F1 fan checking in :)

I can't wait for the KERS/Seat-warmer/smoke-machine equipped Ferrari road car to be released :D


RE: KERS
By Samus on 2/12/2010 1:00:49 AM , Rating: 2
I can't imagine a member of the VAG asking for assistance from anyone, especially a German 'neighbor'

I wouldn't be surprised if Ferdinand Peich brews his own beer.


RE: KERS
By Calin on 2/12/2010 2:17:26 AM , Rating: 2
Formula 1 races (and I suppose the 24 hours Le Mans too) are composed mostly of sequences of "hard acceleration" and "hard braking", respectively "hard left" and "hard right" (related to the pilot's comfort level).
If the mass of the system is small enough, it can certainly help by taking energy from the "fast braking" and giving it back to the "fast acceleration" part. And the extra power when exiting from a twist will allow one to pass on what were not until now "optimum paths".

This isn't to have a measurable increase in fuel economy - it's to give the pilot "free power" when overtaking. This car will mop over the floor with any similar car that doesn't have this system (similar mass and power). And by sending the car in the Le Mans race, the builders think they could mop over the floor with a lighter Porsche that has the same engine but no electric motors, no flywheel, and so on.
Oh, and by the way, four wheel traction will help when accelerating out of a tight curve (accelerating from slow speed)


Great for zombie killing when you crash
By Dribble on 2/11/2010 12:52:35 PM , Rating: 2
So there's a heavy lump of metal spinning at 40,000rpm in the passenger seat. If something stops it spinning perfectly (e.g. you crash) that's a lot of stored energy to contain in one place ...




By Spuke on 2/11/2010 2:10:53 PM , Rating: 5
Racing is a dangerous sport.

quote:
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
- E. Hemingway


RE: Great for zombie killing when you crash
By Hare on 2/11/2010 2:30:44 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder how they handle the gyroscope effect. Having a big lump of metal spinning generates interesting forces that could severely impact cornering etc.

Anyway. This isn't exactly new tech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrobus


By porkpie on 2/11/2010 2:38:55 PM , Rating: 1
I imagine they just have it on gimbals..probably a single-axis gimbal, which is not only simpler, but also would allow easier extraction of the mechanical energy. The car after all only needs to rotate about one axis. And who knows, constraining rotation in the other two axes might actually slightly help to prevent the car from flipping.


RE: Great for zombie killing when you crash
By joeinwap on 2/12/2010 4:04:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
a heavy lump of metal spinning at 40,000rpm in the passenger seat

It is a cylinder of composite (fiber) material, which is a lot easier to contain that a lump of metal. Not in the passenger seat, but down on the floorboard, below where the passenger seat would have been.

quote:
I wonder how they handle the gyroscope effect

Car races of this type do not involve any pitch (uphill or downhill), do not involve any roll (left side being lower than the right or vice versa); they just involve yaw (turning left or right on a flat surface). This is no problem for a gyroscope with a vertical axis, as shown in the photograph. http://paultan.org/photo/albums/porsche-911-gt3-r-...


By BigLan on 2/12/2010 10:32:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It is a cylinder of composite (fiber) material, which is a lot easier to contain that a lump of metal. Not in the passenger seat, but down on the floorboard, below where the passenger seat would have been.


Yeah, from what I remember hearing about the Williams system it's more like a roll of tape (or a roll of lots of pieces of tape) that disintegrates, rather than a solid lump to ricochet all over the place. I probably wouldn't want to be right next to one if it goes *poof* but don't think it's any more dangerous than an engine revving at 10,000+ rpm.


By alanore on 2/13/2010 10:44:51 AM , Rating: 3
This being run at Nurburgring, it has steep banked corners and hills. They are going to need to have a gimbel or have it spun down for sections.


Tag photo
By whiskerwill on 2/11/2010 2:29:37 PM , Rating: 2
What's the picture from? Is that Cary Tagawa?




RE: Tag photo
By andylawcc on 2/11/2010 2:54:22 PM , Rating: 2
you actually know the name of the actor but NOT the movie it was from?

here's a hint:
NOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


RE: Tag photo
By amanojaku on 2/11/2010 2:52:20 PM , Rating: 3
I think that's Johnny Tran (Rick Yune) from "The Fast and the Furious".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Yune


RE: Tag photo
By Cullinaire on 2/11/2010 6:29:18 PM , Rating: 2
Ding ding!

He's in a S2000 in that photo, racing a Jetta (a really ugly one I may add).

VTEC!!!


By KingConker on 2/11/2010 11:40:47 AM , Rating: 2
Shame it was ruled out for this season.

Personally - I think all the teams should have it on board.

M




By Griswold on 2/11/2010 4:45:31 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, but not with THIS particular variation of it. Other teams had much more success with their adaption of KERS. Especially the battery types.


By Captin Crunch on 2/14/2010 12:30:34 PM , Rating: 2
FYI, Williams never ran their KERS system in 2009, so a performance comparison is meaningless. Because the WF1 KERS was a unique system, Williams spent the entire 2009 season developing the technology, in the hope of using it for the 2010 season. After FOTA agreed NOT to use KERS in 2010, Williams decided to re-focus the idea for licensing towards production cars.

Also, Williams recently opened a technical center in Qatar specifically to develop and sell F1 technology, so hopefully we'll see more of this kind of thing =)

ps, good to see so many F1 fans on DT, this season should be interesting!



Hydraulic Launch Assist
By toyotabedzrock on 2/13/2010 1:51:28 AM , Rating: 2
It reminds me of Hydraulic Launch Assist, which ford showed back in 02. Its just not as efficient because they are converting kinetic to electrical to kinetic just to store the energy. Then do all that a second time to use the energy. Perhaps they should learn about super capacitors?




Grammar
By ChrisHF on 2/11/10, Rating: -1
God....
By rudolphna on 2/11/10, Rating: -1
RE: God....
By Lord 666 on 2/11/2010 1:03:12 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, especially since Audi cleaned several other manufacturers clocks with their TDI LeMans cars.


varrooommm!!!!
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 2/11/10, Rating: -1
RE: varrooommm!!!!
By Spuke on 2/11/2010 2:12:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yea, but will it still have that assume Porsche sound when you hit the accelerator?
Read the above posts about KERS.


RE: varrooommm!!!!
By Gul Westfale on 2/11/10, Rating: 0
RE: varrooommm!!!!
By Spuke on 2/11/2010 5:56:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
best american spelling i've seen since someone here was "uphauled" by something...
Uphauled?? ROFLMAO!!!


RE: varrooommm!!!!
By Cullinaire on 2/11/2010 6:30:52 PM , Rating: 2
It must be a regional dialect!


RE: varrooommm!!!!
By thartist on 2/11/2010 8:03:02 PM , Rating: 1
what's wrong with "assume"? grab a dictionary.


RE: varrooommm!!!!
By Gul Westfale on 2/11/2010 9:16:39 PM , Rating: 1
read the entire sentence before posting please.


RE: varrooommm!!!!
By lelias2k on 2/11/2010 9:44:07 PM , Rating: 2
You actually made me go back and re-read it...

Thanks for the laugh... it was assume!!!

ROTFLMFAO


"If you mod me down, I will become more insightful than you can possibly imagine." -- Slashdot

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