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Getting a piece of that high-definition dream on your computer might be a little harder than it originally seemed

AMD's ATI TV Wonder is here -- we can finally enjoy high-definition digital signals on our PCs.  But why aren't the shelves stocked with tuners?  Where are the Microsoft campaigns to herald the technology breakthrough?

It appears as if the big manufacturers are not just ignoring CableCard, they're abandoning home-theater computing altogether.  HP announced last month it would discontinue its media-center Digital Entertainment lineup.

Dell previously stated that it will have CableCard-ready PCs in its 2007 lineup, but one manager speaking on background confirmed to DailyTech that these tuners have been "moved into a late 2007 roadmap, at best."

Voodoo PC chief technology officer and DailyTech blogger Rahul Sood has more than one candid remark about CableCard. "Well, first of all CableCard technology sucks in its current form.  I can only assume that anyone selling it now is probably doing it for the P.R."

Velocity Micro unveiled the world's first CableCard-ready PCs this past March.  As a long time competitor with Voodoo, it disagrees with gusto.  "The fact that we are the world's first to market with CableCard is a testament to our engineering capabilities and our understanding of our enthusiast customer base," stated Randy Copeland, Velocity Micro president and CEO.  "We've sold more of these products per month than what another former boutique seller builds total per month, so it's a very successful product launch for us, and any media coverage has been targeted at the new technology and the first source of it, Velocity Micro."

Yet there is more to the story than just a few boutique vendors taking pot-shots at each other. A product director who requested anonymity feels that the lack of widespread CableCard support may be completely political in nature.  "It is also well known who this technology was made available to and who it wasn’t – and there are a lot of sour grapes from companies who were not invited to be digital cable launch partners," he added.

The lack of CableCard support on the PC is certainly not just attributed to politics alone.  The initial batches of ATI's TV Wonder DCT had a bug that halted all production for weeks and forced existing users to upgrade the firmware on their cards. 

"CableCard, to me, appears to be a flawed standard.  The standard and its resulting implementation are not done with the consumer's interests at heart, and thus we see very limited use of it in CE devices," adds industry analyst Anand Lal Shimpi. 

Shimpi continues "AMD and Microsoft's implementation of CableCard on the PC is a good effort, but from my experience it isn't without its flaws.  Once the bugs get worked out I don't doubt that it can work just as well as CableCard in CE devices."  Shimpi's analysis of the AMD TV Wonder DCT revealed several flaws, including problematic interoperability with signal providers.

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cablecard sucks 2.0
By rahulsood on 4/12/2007 5:12:41 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone buying a system with Cablecard in it right now is wasting their money (or buying something they won't quite receive) --- the fact is it's just not ready yet, period.

As well, when it does "work" it only allows for one way communication, thus you can forget about ordering UFC, or any PPV.

Anyways, I my complete answer appeared in the full interview here:

http://www.rahulsood.com/2007/04/swimming-with-sha...

q. Why did Voodoo opt to skip over the CableCard PCs that we are seeing at other boutique vendors right now?

Well, first of all CableCard technology sucks in its current form. I can only assume that anyone selling it now is probably doing it for the P.R. - Maybe it’s just me, but I believe being the first to launch a POS isn’t exactly good P.R.

Also, from what I understand some companies who claim to “have it ready” are shipping machines without the cards and a coupon to get the cards when they are available. That’s a pretty unique customer experience.

I also hate the way cable & satellite signals are handled on the PC – I know there are better ways to make it easier on the consumer.

It should also be known that we have been working on this technology far and away before any of the boutique vendors currently, and as of yet we aren’t yet satisfied. That’s not to say that the existing technology won’t improve, because it should – and when it does we’ll let you know when/if a new ARIA will be ready.




RE: cablecard sucks 2.0
By othercents on 4/12/2007 6:14:37 PM , Rating: 3
I would love to get my hands on a cablecard system, but your right it is only one way communications. For me I don't care about the two way communication (unless there is a problem downloading the show dates and times) especially since I don't watch any PPV type shows. All I want to do is record all the cable shows in HD on my PC, so I can watch them at a later time. This is what I do with my DVR and I want to do it on my computer instead.

With the TV tuners you had to have a tuner for each station you want to record. I always want to record two shows at the same time and sometimes watch a different show. DVRs do it so well (other than mine crashing every 2 weeks or so), but the computer should be able to do it just as good, or even better.

Other


RE: cablecard sucks 2.0
By darkangelism on 4/12/2007 9:12:46 PM , Rating: 2
a cablecard PC will be better then a DVR in storage capacity, multi terabyte storage is easy to get on a PC but not a set top DVR.


RE: cablecard sucks 2.0
By herrdoktor330 on 4/12/2007 9:42:09 PM , Rating: 4
I agree with you. CableCARD 1.0 technology isn't a fair representation of what CableCARD will be able to do in the years to come. Compared to the features of a digital box, the whole technology as of current is lackluster.

However, what would fix this is the release of CableCARD 2.0. CableCARD 2.0 allows for use on up to 8 tuners at a time, ordering of PPV events, special sports packages, and 2-way communication with the cable company's digital cable system which would allow for VOD services and the like. That would be awesome to build a card that would take the 2.0 technology and build an integrated dual or quad tuner so you could watch/record 2-4 channels at a time. This would be a boon to the HTPC market.

But the 1.0 technology they're pushing now can't accomplish any of this as of current.

However I do believe that, to a certain degree, that people should get behind CableCARD technology so that consumers would have a choice between taking a DCT or DVR from the cable company or buying your own TIVO / HTPC that you have some control over. The growth of the CableCARD market will allow other companies to get into the business of providing alternatives to cable company provided equipment since all analog broadcasts will be eliminated in the U.S. by 2009.

Without CableCARD, we'd all be forced to rent equipment from the cable industry and have no control what-so-ever of the recordings we would get from it, since everything that we could DVR would be on a self-contained HD that the cable company will keep you from dubbing from. When HDMI becomes a standard and component cables are eliminated, you will no longer have the option to copy anything from televison broadcasts anymore since all will be locked down on your cable equipment with no real option to retrieve it.

Anyway, I just wanted to add that to the conversation here.


By sapiens74 on 4/12/2007 5:06:50 PM , Rating: 2
I mean, I hate dealing with Windows to record anything much less a TV show or movie. my DVR for 9 bucks a months works flawless and can record two HD at once.

Until MCE/ VISTA can do it cheaply and as good or better than my DVR with On Demand Services (which rock btw for HBO) then why push for it?




By irev210 on 4/12/2007 11:23:03 PM , Rating: 5
thats the whole point.

It is difficult for a reason. NO cable co wants everyone to return their crappy DVR's and start using media center PC's.

That 9 bucks a month * millions of cable subscribers is BIG BIG BIG bucks.

I feel that cable cards should be free, and that we shouldnt be forced to rent anything from the cable companies. We can buy our TV's, we can buy our cable modems, we buy our PC's... why cant we buy a media center PC that replaces the outdated functionality of an antiquated set top box.

The hard work and effort from the guys at TiVo shows that it IS possible to make it happen, it is just a pain in the ARSE.

It is like the whole music DRM fiasco all over. We beat DRM on music... now TV is taking a stab at it. In 5 years, when they realize "holy shit, we are losing a LOT of money" then im sure they will come around.


By Christopher1 on 4/17/2007 3:11:00 PM , Rating: 2
You realized the real point between media companies not letting people return DVR's and use Media Center PC's: the money factor in that rental rate.

Frankly, there is nothing on the higher channels (100+) that I would want to record! It's mainly movies that I can get on other channels lower down if I wait long enough, cartoons that are on other channels, and repeats of shows that are on other channels.

Until that changes, no DVR for me and I will use my parent's Media Center PC for the VERY few things that I wish to record.


Anand who??
By brshoemak on 4/12/2007 7:12:10 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
"CableCard, to me, appears to be a flawed standard. The standard and its resulting implementation are not done with the consumer's interests at heart, and thus we see very limited use of it in CE devices," adds industry analyst Anand Lal Shimpi.


Who is this Anand guy that thinks he's an expert? ;)




RE: Anand who??
By raionz on 4/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: Anand who??
By James Holden on 4/13/2007 4:38:59 PM , Rating: 3
DailyTech is a spinoff from Anandtech -- I think the OP was being sarcastic :)


No cable card here
By Hoser McMoose on 4/12/2007 5:01:53 PM , Rating: 5
... or at least not until the cable company can figure out how to give us the royal shaft.

I started reading Anand's review of this device but stopped partway through when I realized that my cable company (Rogers in Canada) will do everything in their power to prevent this from working until they have 100% control over the card. If Rogers can fully control what a user sees and when they see it and they can charge customers extra for that 'privilege' , then they MIGHT decide to let this work.




Cable companies, Politicians, and Lobbyists
By 457R4LDR34DKN07 on 4/12/2007 4:44:35 PM , Rating: 2
Cable card in itself is a great idea. It eliminates the need for a large piece of crap tv tuner that the cable company wants to sell you pay per view and on demand over. The main reason it hasn't suceeded is the bueracratic cable companies whose only intrest is in making money, not provide the customer with the best experience. They will do everything necessary to ensure thier monopoly on cable service and the end result is the costomer gets screwed.




By wallijonn on 4/19/2007 2:09:53 PM , Rating: 2
I concur. But I am still left with the nagging feeling that the real culprit is DRM.


CC 1.0
By FXi on 4/13/2007 6:17:38 AM , Rating: 3
Ver 1 of the CC is crap. Cableco's know it and now we know it. Ver 2 has been delayed by years, and it's no big secret why that is.

The internal tuners on modern HDTV's are vastly better than the settop boxes. The cableco's would greatly prefer you not find that out, and of course have no interest in making a card work nor in bringing the 2.0 version of the card.

Civil fines for every 30 days they delay ver 2.0 would help, but not much. The monthly fees on all cable would just go up and they'd still drag their feet. Any guesses how much revenue cableco's make on set top box sales? Don't believe one minute that they don't. Follow the money and you'll find the motivation clear as day for all these "problems" with CC ver 1 and 2.

Manufacturers are pulling the devices, NOT because they don't work. They do "work" but the limitations of the Ver 1 devices are so pathetic that no one uses the feature. It's better to save the cost. Ver 2 was supposed to be functioning and on the market by the end of last year, but that didn't happen.

Ever notice that when the cableco's have competition they can roll out say higher internet speeds pretty much overnight? Yet for some reason, it takes 3 years to get ver 2 of the CC out.

Behold the long term effects of a monopoly. Fun isn't it?




Hooray!
By Some1ne on 4/13/2007 3:49:02 PM , Rating: 2
Let's just hope that the politics and bugs continue to hinder CableCard all the way until everyone is so frustrated with it that somebody just decides to roll out a similar product that can be integrated by anyone, doesn't require special BIOS hooks or a special Windows version/license, and allows recording/ripping of content to non-DRM'ed formats.

That's how it should have been done in the first place anyways, but the "DRM is good" people ruined it. Sooner or later the industry needs to figure out that it should listen to the wants and needs of its consumers, and not to those of the big content-provider companies at the top.




By GlassHouse69 on 4/13/2007 2:20:27 AM , Rating: 1
Reasons why cable cards for pc's arent that great:

1. they are NOT on new tvs, they are being removed from almost every current model by the major 5 manufacturers.
2. they do not work with any on demand products or local functions in a wealthy area like manhattan or on long island. push a button and the channels go up and down. that's it for using a system.
3. cable companies do not want to support them as they lose money on them and have more annoying customer issues from using them.
4. the reason for being phased out on tv's is poor adoption, extra unnecessary cost in a falling price market, and, believe it or not, much poorer picture quality compared to external cable box and component cables.

What we need is for cable/directv to allow for real boxes to be made for computers and not this half assed crap.




"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." -- Bill Gates











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