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Gadgets PlayStation 3 Lacks Upscaler to 1080i
Marcus Yam (Blog) - November 16, 2006 10:15 AM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 100 comment(s) - last by VooDooAddict.. on Nov 20 at 11:33 AM
Suddenly, the bundle at CompUSA all makes sense now

Reports are flooding in that PlayStation 3 is unable to upscale its video output, leaving many with older HDTV's, including those from Sony, out in the cold of standard definition.

Early word came in from the NeoGAF forums, where users with 1080i TV sets tried to run Resistance: Fall of Man, only to find that the game would force a switch down to 480p. The reason behind this is that Resistance runs at a native 720p resolution. If the game is played on a television that does not support 720p, which applies to many older HDTV models, then instead of upscaling to 1080i to retain its HD status, it downscales to 480p, losing much graphical fidelity. 

"Sony and Insomniac, I am very, very dissapointed. Resistance will not output in 1080i. It's either 720p, or a 480p blur fest. What a pain in the ass it's going to be to change the screen resolution in the XMB everytime I want to play. Not to mention having to deal with the bad quality resulting from my CRT HDTV's crappy upscaling algorithms," wrote forum member Vincey37.

When attempting to run Resistance on a TV set not running in 720p, the following message is displayed: 

"The maximum display resolution is currently set to 1080i. For highest image quality 720p is recommended. To change this setting, you must exit the application and change your Video Output Settings from the Display Settings option in the Settings menu. Press the START button to continue"

A response from a supposed Insomniac developer read, "This isn't our fault guys - we were set to support it," without going into further details. 

So the situation right now is that anyone with an HDTV that's capable of only 480i, 480p, and 1080i will be unable to play games such as Resistance, NHL 2K7, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 and Need for Speed Carbon at anything higher than 480p.

Upscaling is currently found in many HDMI DVD players that convert 480p images to 720p or 1080i, producing slightly improved picture quality. the Xbox 360 also upscales its games (albeit with analog component output instead of HDMI), which nearly all are developed to run at 720p, to 1080i for those who are unable to run at the native resolution.

Sony has yet to comment on reports of this discovery, and it is unknown whether or not this apparent oversight can be addressed via system updates.

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Looking better all th time for Sony
By ViperROhb34 on 11/16/2006 11:04:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
So the situation right now is that anyone with an HDTV that's capable of only 480i, 480p, and 1080i will be unable to play games such as Resistance, NHL 2K7, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 and Need for Speed Carbon at anything higher than 480p.


Nice to know MS didn't fuck up in this way.. at least the 360 upscales.. I can't believe Sony dropped this one.. again.




By bunnyfubbles on 11/16/2006 11:10:19 AM , Rating: 5
is it really hard to believe, or are you just saying that for effect?

after all these Sony "screw ups", I'm becoming less and less surprised with time...


RE: Looking better all th time for Sony
By peternelson on 11/17/2006 7:47:43 PM , Rating: 1
Microsoft....

So you're saying the x360 upscales 720p games and outputs 1080 output.....

SO it does a 2>3 pixel upscale ie a BLUR on all its output!

ROFL.

Of course since it only uses analogue cabling instead of HDMI, you are unlikely to notice the quality loss!

That approach is really not desirable for quality reasons. The PS3 is doing it properly.

It will work fine with any reasonably modern screen. If your tv is outdated, buy a dedicated scaler box to add the feature that should have been in the tv originally ;-)


By oTAL (blog) on 11/19/2006 9:27:42 AM , Rating: 2
Dude... do you even know what upscalling is?
You can interpolate information from surrounding pixels to draw the missing ones. That means that, with a good device, the upscalled image will even look slightly BETTER than the original one. Try to learn a little bit more before laughing on someoneelse's post or you'll look like an idot...
Well.. I guess this is why the rating system was invented...


resolution
By geeg on 11/16/2006 11:14:41 AM , Rating: 2
can it upscale to 1080p? even the game does not support 1080i?
how about 1080p games running on 1080i? is there any 1080p game at all?




RE: resolution
By photoguy99 on 11/16/2006 11:35:09 AM , Rating: 2
Answer is no - It can't scale these games to 1080i or 1080p.

Seems like Sony decisions are made behind some kind of barrier that separates them from real people.


RE: resolution
By rtrski on 11/16/2006 12:11:25 PM , Rating: 2
But any 1080p capable monitor should be able to do its own upscaling from 720p or 1080i without too much issue. So the 1080p lack isn't that pertinent, just the 1080i.


RE: resolution
By photoguy99 on 11/16/2006 12:56:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
any 1080p capable monitor should be able to do its own upscaling

No way man. If you mean TV's then that's probably true most of the time.

But as an example most desktop monitors wont do this. My new desktop monitor supports 1080p, but would barf all over the PS3 and not display anything.


RE: resolution
By Lazarus Dark on 11/16/2006 12:52:13 PM , Rating: 2
upscaling was one of the things i was wondering about. does it upscale ps2 games? does it upscale dvds? if so how does it look,say compared to the low end upscaling dvd players out there? with linux will it be able to play divx and other files via harddrive or network and will it upscale those? not that I really plan to get one, but I am curious.


This is really BAD for PS3
By ATC on 11/16/2006 11:30:50 AM , Rating: 3
I have a Sony 51" HDTV that accepts 480i/p, 720p and 1080i signals, but looking in the manual last night it specifically says that 720p will be downscaled to 480p!

My Xbox 360 up scales to 1080i, yet the PS3 will not do this? WTF is Sony thinking?

I was going to buy the PS3 partly as a Blu-Ray player. But, what good is Blu-Ray at 480p?




RE: This is really BAD for PS3
By ED666 on 11/16/2006 12:16:12 PM , Rating: 2
If it really can't upscale ANY image up to 1080i or 1080p, then this could be very bad for those with older HDTV sets, who thought they could use it as a Blu-Ray player.

Watching films in 480p is going to suck big time...

I really hope they can fix this, or basically thats the big Blu-Ray/PS3 argument almost gone...


RE: This is really BAD for PS3
By Hotdogah on 11/16/2006 2:52:21 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, I was going to purchase one early next year when they were in stock and prices had stabilized. I have a 2.5 year old Panasonic HDTV that supports 1080i, not 720p. My 360 outputs perfectly at 1080i. This seems like a huge problem for sony. My HD tvs lifespan isent over yet, except for with the PS3.


RE: This is really BAD for PS3
By z0mgpwnr on 11/17/2006 4:17:06 PM , Rating: 1
You should have done the same thing with your TV purchase. I held off on buying an HDTV for a long time because of issues exactly like this.


Slightly overreacting
By cplusplus on 11/16/2006 3:06:36 PM , Rating: 4
Not to say that this isn't bad news (it is), but I think everyone is jumping the gun on this and seeing what they want to see (just like every other post related to consoles).

What the PS3 can do: Downscale 1080p made content (which includes all blu-ray) to 1080i from everything I have heard and read.

What the PS3 cannot do: Upscale 480p (DVD) or 720p content to 1080i.

Even if they can't fix this with software, it wouldn't be particularly difficult for them to make an HD cable that looks like the old XBOX component cable thing that has a scaler in it to allow upscaling, then sell it for $20-$30. Especially since the PS3 doesn't come with HD cables to begin with, if I remember correctly.

P.S. - Whoever that developer at Insomniac is really threw Sony under the bus on this one. "We were ready to support it?" Then why didn't you make the game at 1080i and allow it to "downscale" to 720p?




RE: Slightly overreacting
By ATC on 11/16/2006 5:09:04 PM , Rating: 2
It isn't a big problem for those who don't own one of the hundreds of thousands of early(er) HDTVs like myself. And my HDTV isn't a no-name brand but rather a Sony 51" HDTV.

The vast majority of PS3 games are in 720p. Also, my understanding is that Blu-Ray movies may be in 720p and all stand alone Blu-Ray players have build in up-scalers to 1080i. So, with the PS3 we're losing both the HD gaming advantage as well as the Blu-Ray advantage if we have one of those earlier HDTVs.

Here's hoping for a fix or a cable that upscales as you mention.


RE: Slightly overreacting
By photoguy99 on 11/16/2006 5:39:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
that developer at Insomniac is really threw Sony under the bus on this one. "We were ready to support it?" Then why didn't you make the game at 1080i and allow it to "downscale" to 720p?

Very simple reason, performance.

The quote implies they had to turn down the resolution because the PS3 wasn't "fast enough" to run it smoothly at 1080p.

Caveat: I don't know if the quote was real, and it could be their game engine is not efficient..


Noobz
By z0mgpwnr on 11/17/2006 9:50:37 AM , Rating: 1
People are overlooking an important factor....

Sony is spending $840 to manufacture each PS3. They are making these consoles at a loss. Why should we expect them to cater to low end technology? I would rather have the PS3 support 1080p (as it currently does) than have then spend countless hours of R&D figuring out how to best display it on a POS TV.

The point of digital video is that it's lossless, well at least the signal is. If you want it to look decent on the TV let the TV scale the picture, i.e. use analog inputs, then it will be rendering at 720p still and your TV will make the best of it. I feel bad for Sony that they get these kinds of nonsense reviews.




RE: Noobz
By ATC on 11/17/2006 11:01:10 AM , Rating: 2
On the contrary, Sony is squarely placing the PS3 in the POS category by not incorporating a very cheap/highly available item called a scaler. Oh how the Xbox360 has it and the PS3 coming out a year later and costing a lot more won't have. Hmm....Can anyone spell out 'oversight'?

Oh, and my POS TV, as you say, is a Sony 51" HDTV that all my friends with LCD and Plasma TVs envy for its picture quality in 1080i (1080i is, incidentally, the most common HDTV broadcast feed). Go troll somewhere else.


RE: Noobz
By derubermensch1 on 11/17/2006 12:49:26 PM , Rating: 2
1080i isnt low end technology and neither is a TV that supports it and not 720p. My neighbors just bought a 46" Samsung LCD and they are more impressed with my picture quality when watching NFL Sunday Ticket in HD on my CRT based HDTV. Most consoles launch at a loss to the parent company, Sony isn't doing us any new favor by selling it to us for less than cost. This is the norm. Also, there would not be countless hours of R&D spent on including a scaler and it would not come at a loss of having 1080p support. By the way, if you want people to apply some sort of merit to your post you should probably consider not using "Noobz" as the title, especially when it contains information that has been widely accepted, and not overlooked, as common knowledge by anyone who follows console gaming. If you even own an HDTV, does it support 1080p? If it doesn't, does that now make it a POS because of your low-end 720p support? If you have 720p support, and not 1080p, will you be mad when Sony makes a game that runs in native 1080p but you have to view it in 480p or will you be aquiescent? Add a scaler, problem solved, for consumers and developers alike.


RE: Noobz
By z0mgpwnr on 11/17/2006 4:05:05 PM , Rating: 1
I'm sorry but if you spend any money on a TV and it isn't at least 720p then you are throwing money out the window. The PS3 shows that.

Back to my original comment. They are already losing upwards of $240 on each console they sell. I don't blame them for not spending the time and money to cater to this need. If you want a top end console get a top end TV. I've got a Samsung 56" DLP @1080p.

I just mainly didn't like the title of this thread it's misleading. The PS3 isn't lacking anything. Your TVs are.


RE: Noobz
By derubermensch1 on 11/17/2006 5:36:26 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, you'd be insane to buy an HDTV if it didn't support a wide gamut of display modes...if you were buying one now. 720p CRTs were not widespread or even really available and affordable 4-5 years ago when we bought our sets. It's not like we have 10-15 year old TVs and are crying foul play. And the PS3 is obviously lacking a scaler. It's not time consuming or expensive to add, Microsoft apparently pulled it off without a problem. Im not a fanboy of anything, I play everything, and this is not acceptable. Fine, its' $840 to make a PS3, just make it $847 and everyone's HDTV would work. You or someone you know apparently has the money to update your TV frequently so this situation doesn't apply to you. But why a company would release a product that alienates a sector of the HDTV market when they have been encouraging HDTV adoption is bordeline offensive, especially to those with Sony branded sets.