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2.7 million Blu-ray Disc players sold in North America, most of them are a videogames console

Despite Sony Corp.’s CEO Howard Stinger calling the high-definition battle a simple matter of prestige, the Blu-ray Disc Association wasted little time in announcing yet another sales milestone.

Thanks the frenzy of buyers during the Black Friday shopping period, total Blu-ray Disc player sales have reached 2.7 million units in North America. The number, of course, includes Sony’s PlayStation 3 as a Blu-ray Disc player, regardless whether or not owners of the gaming console utilize the high-definition movie function.

According to Video Business, actual numbers of standalone Blu-ray Disc units may be around 700,000, as there were 2 million PlayStation 3 consoles sold through October. Accurate data for standalone player sales is harder to gather for Blu-ray Disc than for HD DVD, however, as there are a greater number of Blu-ray Disc hardware manufacturers. Should the provided data be accurate, it would mean that 74 percent of all Blu-ray Disc players in North America are in the form of the PlayStation 3.

The North American HD DVD Promotional Group released its own sales data following Black Friday, revealing that total sales for HD DVD players in North America have exceeded the 750,000 mark. Like the Blu-ray Disc Association’s numbers, the figures for HD DVD also include console contributions – the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive add-on. Unlike the situation for PlayStation 3, where it’s still unclear how many owners use the Blu-ray function, buyers of the Xbox 360 hardware accessory are assured HD DVD users.

Sales of HD DVD players for as low as under $100 didn’t seem to faze the Blu-ray Disc Association, though, as it said in a statement, “Despite the $99 HD DVD fire sale, Blu-ray movies were flying off the shelves in this crucial holiday shopping period.”

The comment made by the Association comes from Nielsen VideoScan data showing that 72.6 percent of high-definition discs purchased by consumers were Blu-ray Disc, and just 27.4 percent were HD DVD.

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The numbers
By diablofish on 12/5/2007 4:39:33 PM , Rating: 5
I recently bought a PS3 because it came with 10 free Blu-Ray movies and 5 more via mail. I intend, and have been, using it as both a gaming console and a movie player. I suspect that the majority of the people who bought a PS3 have the same intentions that I have. That is, they are going to use it for multiple purposes, not exclusively to play games and not exclusively to watch movies.

And I think that's born out in the other statistic that's been reported here: Blu-Rays are outselling HD-DVD by about 3:1. This is awful similar to the nearly 3:1 ratio that Blu-Ray players (including the PS3, because it is, among other things, a Blu-Ray player) over HD-DVD players.

Of course one could also interpret that no one uses their PS3 for playing movies (which I find hard to believe) and that Blu-Ray player owners buy three times the number of movies on Blu-Ray as to HD-DVD owners. While I suppose this is possible, it doesn't seem like the likely explanation.

Taking those two numbers together, I think it shows clearly that Blu-Ray is leading in both player sales and media sales, which would seem to indicate the preferred format among consumers (at least at this point in the "war") is Blu-Ray.




RE: The numbers
By dagamer34 on 12/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: The numbers
By diablofish on 12/5/2007 10:50:45 PM , Rating: 3
They "shun" the PS3? Sales of 2 million PS3's in the US in a year's time is "shunning" it? Yet HD-DVD has sold 750,000 players that cost less than the PS3? Doesn't seem to me like the PS3 is being "shunned". It also would appear that cost is not the only consideration in making a purchase at this stage of the format "war".

And I'm not saying the PS3 is all that and a bag of chips, either. But it's far from being "shunned".

I think early adopters of either format are generally going to have a higher level of disposable income than the average consumer. Therefore, while cost is obviously a consideration, it's not nearly as much of a consideration for people who are early adopters. If you have $500 to spend, would you rather spend it on a $100 HD-DVD player and 15 movies (at $26 a piece) OR would you buy a dual-purpose PS3 (plays HD movies AND is a HD gaming console) AND get 15 free movies? To me, the PS3 was a better overall value. Granted I'm not a hardcore gamer like I used to be, so I'm not worried about Halo 3, GOW, and Mass Effect. They'll probably be available on the PC eventually anyway.

Of course if you don't have $500 to spend, that $100 is probably even more valuable to you. And given the value of that $100 is more to you relative to the person with $500 disposable income, would you want to spend that $100 on an unproven format that could become obsolete and that doesn't have the backing of several major movie studios? It seems more likely to me that if that $100 is of more value to you you'll probably wait to see which format wins before spending that $100 rather than buying that shiny HD-DVD player.

As media prices drop and the formats become more mainstream, the cost issue will become more and more important. I woulnd't be surprised at all if in a couple years time HD-DVD was outselling Blu-Ray. And that would be fine with me: I got 15 free HD movies with my gaming console AND my gaming console will also play them.


RE: The numbers
By BansheeX on 12/6/2007 1:03:04 AM , Rating: 2
Believe it or not, blu-ray stand-alones have sold almost as many units as HD-DVD stand-alones... at $100-$200 more on average. If blu-ray is selling that well at such a higher price, what do you think will happen when it drops?

A lot of your reasoning is also dependent on the assumption that the PS3 will always be the cheapest blu-ray player. That isn't true. Blu-ray standalones will reach $200 well before the PS3 does.


RE: The numbers
By wallijonn on 12/6/2007 12:32:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If blu-ray is selling that well at such a higher price, what do you think will happen when it drops?


Many of us will then buy BD. Obviously. The question is "when"? Will it be a year from now or two years from now?

For me it is a question of DRM. At least three times this year I have been unable to watch a Sony SD DVD because of the constant ramping up and ramping down of the movie as it DRMs. After 5 minutes I have to eject the movie and not bother with it. DRM has therefore left a bad taste in my mouth, as bad as having to replace a DVD player because it won't play the latest Macrovision protection (this happened with an Apex player I once had.)

Remember this article?: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070418-sony...

When BD profiles have been standardised and the price drops down bellow $200, I will buy BD.


RE: The numbers
By akugami on 12/6/2007 2:43:35 PM , Rating: 2
Smart people will opt out of the whole war and wait for dual format players. I already bought the LG player than can burn CD's and DVD's and read Blu-Ray and HD-DVD's.

As far as which disc format we will support more, that depends on what's available and how good it is. For instance with the movie 300 I would clearly buy the HD-DVD version over the less fully featured Blu-Ray version.

So far it looks like Blu-Ray is winning. I don't care about cherry picking numbers, the bottom line for studio houses is the fact that by hook or by crook Blu-Ray is moving much much more discs than HD-DVD. While both formats have some gems that are exclusive to it, there seems to be a lot of Blu-Ray movie sets I'm looking at.

Either way I'm opting out of the format war and picking and choosing movies I want to keep regardless of which format it's on. I'm not a compulsive movie buyer and only buy sets that I truly want to keep long term. For instance the Shawshank Redemption is one of my all time favorites and Stanley Kubrik's Full Metal Jacket.


RE: The numbers
By Guyver on 12/5/2007 5:31:31 PM , Rating: 1
Oh and you forgot to mention that although the Blu-Ray front has a 3:1 sales ratio, it's also been clear that their attach rate has been less than 1 disc per player. Sounds like you're cherry picking your facts.

What is even more impressive is the perpetual ignorance of fanboys (not implying that you are fanboy even though you seem to quack like one) who do not account for the obvious fact that this format war has been miniscule. Has it occured to anyone why victories swing to either side on any given week? It's because the format war is small.

Using disc sales ratios and total player sales is a tad bit ridiculous when you take a step back to see what a mountain people try to make out of this mole hill called a format war. Take a step back to see the big picture. Earlier this year combined sales of BR and HD-DVD discs exceed VHS sales for this year and that was considered a "milestone". UTTERLY ridiculous.

Honestly. Is 750,000 HD-DVD players or a 3:1 BR disc sales advantage really THAT impressive? What effect does getting 10 free movies at Wal-Mart registers or other free movie offers through merchants have on disc sales ratios? They are being counted since they must be "rung" up. Obviously anything included in a player's box or is sent by mail does not count.

Both sides are using "big" numbers because they impress the sheeple among us. Unfortunately sheeple out number those of us who want to be better informed consumers. And those big numbers are almost always used in carefully worded or cherry picked facts which almost always exclude SD DVD sales because what the best selling title on BR & HD-DVD accomplishes in a matter of a week, DVD accomplishes in a matter of less than a day.

I'll just sit this out for a while and see how many sheeple fall for the self-fullfilling prophesies both sides are trying to promote. This is a war of perception. Not a war of using all the facts.


RE: The numbers
By steven975 on 12/5/07, Rating: 0
RE: The numbers
By michal1980 on 12/5/2007 9:08:03 PM , Rating: 3
so what? cheaper = better.

isnt that the hd-dvd company line. 'our players are cheaper so we are better for the masses'?

so now you whine about cheaper media


RE: The numbers
By diablofish on 12/5/2007 11:08:20 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, they make sales that never would have occurred INITIALLY. But now that I have a Blu-Ray player and 15 free movies, do you think I'm more likely to buy another player for $100 or $200 or more likely to spend that $100 or $200 on additional Blu-Ray titles?

Hence, "promotion".


RE: The numbers
By diablofish on 12/5/2007 10:21:17 PM , Rating: 2
If the attach rate is that low, then why is the sales ratio that high? Could you provide some further information (numbers) showing the attach ratio?

I'm not "cherry picking" facts. I was merely commenting on a possible explanation for why the ratios (the statistics, not "facts") match up. As I discussed, there are other possible explanations. Yet you fail to offer any other reasonable explanations from the two I offered in my post.

And I don't know what the affect the free movie promotions have on the numbers, and that information isn't presented in that article either. So it's all speculation - which is what I was doing as well.

It is a milestone for a new format to exceed an old format in sales. It demonstrates that the new format is growing and consumers (or sheeple, if you prefer) are embracing the new format(s). DVD accomplished the same milestone over VHS as well. And CD's over cassettes, and cassettes over 8-tracks, and 8-tracks over vinyl, and on and on.

If we were to chart the adoption of the formats, we'd see growth. So yes, at least to a certain extent, selling "x" number of players or "y" number of movies is impressive, considering they started at ZERO.


RE: The numbers
By masher2 (blog) on 12/6/2007 12:18:40 AM , Rating: 1
> "Could you provide some further information (numbers) showing the attach ratio?"

You can work out an approximate attach rate just from total disc sales; the value has to be well below 1.0 just for that reason alone.

I saw an attach rate figure for the PS3 alone a few months ago that was 0.29. I can't find it now unfortunately, but this link shows overall attach rates (PS3+standalone) for Europe at 0.6 BD, vs. 3.8 HD-DVD. North American numbers can't be too far off that:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/12/european-hd-d...


RE: The numbers
By BansheeX on 12/6/2007 1:16:25 AM , Rating: 3
Attach rates will always be lower on blu-ray because blu-ray has a console that automatically includes it while HD-DVD doesn't. Therefore, you're including a lot of people using a "player" purely as a game system in your calculations. It's dubious because of the traditional point of "attach-rates" in industry which normally doesn't have a wrench like this thrown into the equation, and which in this case is trying to display which format's movie fans are buying the most movies. The same problem exists for "player sales" statistics, although it's safe to assume that there have been far more blu-ray "player" sales including the PS3 because of how close the stand-alone numbers are. Therefore, overall disc sales are really the only stat worth quoting if you're trying to get an impression on what's selling better.


RE: The numbers
By Guyver on 12/6/2007 10:43:31 AM , Rating: 2
1. If including PS3s as Blu-Ray players is dubious then perhaps Sony should stop counting every single PS3.

2. Until the freebies that get rung up at the registers come to a stop, the overall disc sales is currently NOT an accurate assessment of the true demand for either format. Especially since the dubious fact that when you consider the PS3 effect of bored gamers waiting on a "Halo 3 killer".

No, it's pretty clear the either side cherry picks their facts. Each side wants to have it both ways. Blu-Ray wants to talk about disc sales ratios, high number of Blu-Ray players, but then whistle and turn their heads hoping that no one notices the average number of discs per player is less than 1. HD-DVD points out your dubious fact and insists only dedicated HD players should be counted which is basically EVERYTHING in the HD-DVD arsenal (since the add-on HD-DVD drive can only play HD-DVDs) then brag about their attach rate.

No, it's pretty clear that both sides relish in blowing things out of proportion with cherry picked facts. It's all about making you think a 3:1 disc sales ratio or an attach rate above 1 in a tiny format skirmish is "news worthy". In reality its about marketing a product (which only 1% to 3% of all HDTV owners have committed to). It's about getting sheeple to go with the "winner". This is truly a perception war.


RE: The numbers
By diablofish on 12/6/2007 11:24:50 AM , Rating: 2
There's a world of difference between stating each side "cherry picks" and accusing me of "cherry picking." I'm just using the information provided in this article, and running some attach rates on numbers provided in other news - which I provided links to.

I'll agree that perception is HUGE part of ANY war - be it a military engagement OR a high definition debate. Heck, perception is a huge part of everyone's daily life, and that's reality (catch the irony in that?). From the content of your posts, I perceive you to think that anyone who buys Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is one of the "sheeple" and incapable of making a choice based on price, value, potential uses, and other factors. And I don't think that's the case at all.


RE: The numbers
By Guyver on 12/6/2007 11:46:52 AM , Rating: 2
1. Totally AGREED that both sides cherry pick. That's an expectation of the business of marketing a product. Should you as a consumer fall for it or promote it?

2. The reality is the format war is quite small. The perception of the war is that it is big with a week-to-week tug-of-war in victories (so as to influence the sheeple).

3. Your perception of what I think of early adopters or those who commit to a particular format is wrong. I never said everyone was a sheeple. The marketing of either side's products are clearly meant to influence the sheeple among us not early adopters or those who care to be more informed. There are those with deeper pockets or are fanboys of a particular format / brand. The sheeple outnumber us all. The marketing is aimed at them since both sides use numbers that seem big but are actually small. 3:1 clearly sounds better if you omit the fact that only about 1% to 3% of American homes have bought a HD player. Or if you compare Blu-Ray / HD-DVD sales against the current leader.


RE: The numbers
By diablofish on 12/6/2007 12:02:10 PM , Rating: 2
1 - If I prefer Blu-Ray or HD-DVD why shouldn't I promote it? I have no preference, but don't care that either camp promotes their products because it's in their best interest to do so. And frankly, they have a right to promote their products.

2 - Who perceives it to be big? Got some data to back this up? Most of the people I know don't care at all about HD-DVD or Blu-Ray at this point because they are happy with DVD.

3 - I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to clarify because I don't understand what you mean at all. Yes, marketing is meant to influence people. Yes, some people have more money than others. Yes, the majority of the market is currently DVD, with "1-3%" being next-gen. But five years ago, what percentage was HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? ZERO. It took time for DVD to become accepted over VHS too and at one point in time DVD had only 1-3% of the market as well. So tracking growth is useful to determine if a technology is being accepted and to determine the marketing is working or not not working. That's how it works and that's why it's reported.


RE: The numbers
By Guyver on 12/6/2007 2:47:48 PM , Rating: 2
1. If you've committed to a format, there's certainly no problem with promoting it, but promote it with your experiences. Why promote the product with the carefully chosen words of the side you prefer? I am not saying neither side has a right to promote their product, but both sides you deceptive tactics that the sheeple fall for.

2. When I see words like "War" and other adjectives in the numerous articles you can find on the net, one can only interpret the skirmish between the two formats as being big. And yes, most people don't know nor probably care about either format. HDTVs have yet to hit 50% markeshare in U.S. homes last time I checked.

3. Tracking growth is very useful when all things are on a level playing field. Things get clouded with freebie offers that qualify as purchases (rung up at the register eve