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Possibly the new home of the PirateBay
Want to avoid copyright laws completely? Become your own nation

The group of people that run PirateBay.org have announced plans to purchase the man-made island called Sealand. The structure sitting out at sea was originally called HM Fort Roughs and was formally a Maunsell Sea Fort off the coast of England. Although Sealand does not have a government that is recognized by any country, the small population that it holds -- roughly ten -- does claim rights to sovereignty.

With that in mind, the owners of PirateBay.org plan to move their operation over to Sealand so that they can remain separated by any foreign government jurisdiction. Of course, there's one main reason why this is in the works to begin with, and it all has to do with avoiding copyright laws. According to the PirateBay.org group:

With the help of all the kopimists on Internets, we want to buy Sealand. Donate money and you will become a citizien. We’ve set up a forum to discuss how the country is supposed to function. It should be a great place for everybody, with high-speed Internets access, no copyright laws and VIP accounts to The Pirate Bay.

At this point in time, the number of donations are unknown and it is still unknown whether all this will even be possible. Even if the group claims Sealand to be their own, its government body may not be recognized by international treaties and countries. Despite this, the PirateBay.org group has a plan: "If we do not get enough money required to buy the micronation of Sealand, we will try to buy another small island somwhere and claim it as our own country (prices start from USD 50 000)."



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for sale?
By Loser on 1/12/2007 9:42:17 AM , Rating: 1
is Sealand for sale then? wonder why nobody bought it




RE: for sale?
By darkpaw on 1/12/2007 10:00:38 AM , Rating: 1
Yah, was on yahoo news the other day that the family owning it wants to sell. Funny thing was the sellers were specifically listing things like online gambling and off shore banking as potential buying.

Might as well advertise as perfect vacation spot for criminal enterprises.


RE: for sale?
By BladeVenom on 1/12/2007 10:38:12 AM , Rating: 5
Those are not criminal enterprises, as both would be legal in Sealand.


RE: for sale?
By masher2 (blog) on 1/12/07, Rating: -1
RE: for sale?
By dreddly on 1/12/2007 12:08:07 PM , Rating: 1
You can play semantics with things like intellectual property because they are so dependent on the authority to decide and enforce the minute differences between fair-use and violation.

Their success with this will all depends on other sovereign nation's choice to allow it - if they choose to reject it, it is over, but if they allow it to persist through ignorance or lack of will - just like offshore finance - they could have some success.


RE: for sale?
By Ringold on 1/12/2007 12:22:51 PM , Rating: 5
I believe he was making it a moral issue instead of debating word games and legalese.

Rape and murder would be seen by the civilized among us as an ethical wrong, regardless of what the laws of the land state.

Likewise, taking something others labored on or perhaps had a minor stroke of genius on and reproducing it endlessly without their permission leaving them uncompensated for their work would be seen by the civilized among us as an ethical wrong. Again, regardless of the laws of men over the land.

Sort of like emminent domain. Law of the land in America says its fine. That doesn't make it ethical -- I'm waiting for a city to find a street with a bunch of die-hard gun-toting libertarians, blight it, and see what happens when they try to evict them off their own private property. Neither side would care much for semantic legal games there, either.

I don't think they'll have any success though; what are they going to do, hoist up a server farm on that little platform? Power this server with big socialist smiles? And when somebody snips its internet uplink? If they think they can be hosted elsewhere and just be legally registered in the micronation, well, I dont think that'll stop the West from going after it.


RE: for sale?
By FITCamaro on 1/12/2007 3:30:53 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I don't think they'll have any success though; what are they going to do, hoist up a server farm on that little platform? Power this server with big socialist smiles? And when somebody snips its internet uplink? If they think they can be hosted elsewhere and just be legally registered in the micronation, well, I dont think that'll stop the West from going after it.


You know thats exactly what I was wondering. They'll have to buy internet access from someone and all the government of whatever nation has to do is make trade illegal with this new nation. The US already has laws to outlaw the export of certain goods to certain countries. I'm sure the British have the same. In the end these people aren't going to get anywhere.

I don't understand how you can feel that you're entitled to the work of others for free. Sure I have TV shows on my PC. But I feel I've already paid for them by watching them on TV (which I pay for) and sitting through the commercials(which pay for the show). I can record the shows myself if I want to so I don't see how getting them from someone else who's done it instead is wrong. If they made the seasons of the shows cheaper I wouldn't mind paying for them but paying $50 bucks a season for shows I already paid to see is wrong to me.

But as far as music, movies, and games, its wrong to pirate that stuff. Does that mean I've never done it? No. But I've never felt I have the right to the material without any potential consequences. The arguement that "these companies are already rich enough doesn't fly". Now with games its a touchy subject because if you pay $50 for a game, you want quality content. Not some hack job that they threw together to make a buck (looking at you EA). If the company doesn't release a demo, you should be able to return games you're not happy with. Yes I know the problems with this but still. How many games do they hype up by showing this commercial with awesome graphics and rave about the gameplay and then you play it only to be like "WTF?". Games companies need to be held accountable for the quality of their product just like every other manufacturer. The way things are right now I could purchase the rights to Pong, have a commercial made showing an awesome tennis game with great graphics(with disclaimer saying not actual gameplay footage), and then get $50 a pop for Pong.


RE: for sale?
By mindless1 on 1/12/2007 12:42:36 PM , Rating: 3
You seem a bit confused about what "legalize" means. There is nothing to legalize that has not been declared illegal in the first place. Kinda the whole point of their own country, even if it is a bit extreme. At least it's funny.


RE: for sale?
By Googer on 1/12/2007 4:04:10 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
HavenCo has been providing services since May 2000 and is fully operational, offering the world's most secure managed servers in the world's only true free market environment, the Principality of Sealand. Our testing period is now over, and we can offer services to all businesses which comply with our Acceptable Use Policy. Setup takes approximately 3-5 days, and dedicated servers in managed colocation, with ample bandwidth, are competitively priced with other secure centers around the world.

http://www.havenco.com/


RE: for sale?
By ShizNet on 1/13/2007 1:07:44 AM , Rating: 3
"...[woman] convicted of adultery and sentenced to death by stoning..."
this is UN recognised country, so what did you say before?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1885052.st...


RE: for sale?
By tuteja1986 on 1/13/2007 2:04:54 AM , Rating: 1
lol... Anyways all the movie industry have to do is hire a Mercenary and they will take care of sealand and pirate bay for good. International water has no law : )


RE: for sale?
By NullSubroutine on 1/19/2007 4:11:36 AM , Rating: 2
except for international law.


Uh oh
By shaw on 1/12/2007 10:10:05 AM , Rating: 5
Oh no! They're trying to create a new Outer Heaven!

George Bush: We're sending you in to dismantle the terrorist members of piratesbay dot org at Sealand. We can't risk sending in more than one person for this mission or an international crisis might happen.
Snake: This should be an easy mission, no problem.
George Bush: There is also a need to stop their deadly weapon as well, Metal Gear Warez.
Snake: Warez?
George Bush: Warez are illegaly distributed programs and MP3s.
Snake: MP3s?
George Bush: Do you remember the Solomon project?
Snake: You mean the project where General Solomon of the United State Marine Core during the Persian Gulf created music for his soilders to listen to? I heard he did it to calm them down from the intensity of the battlefield.
George Bush: Well that's what you've been told. The truth is that General Solomon was recording his psionic messages into a new compressed format of music known as the M usical P ersistence of 3 Powers. Later it was shortened to MP3.
Snake: Gotcha.
George Bush: You have your weapon?
Snake: Yeah. I have my Springfield Armory XD-45 "Sausage Hotpocket" pistol with me.
George Bush: Excellent! Good luck!




RE: Uh oh
By itlnstln on 1/12/2007 10:34:45 AM , Rating: 4
I'm sure Jack Bauer is up for taking down this new bastion of international terrorism.


RE: Uh oh
By protosv on 1/12/2007 12:06:35 PM , Rating: 1
ahahahahaha


RE: Uh oh
By Masterrer on 1/12/2007 3:23:31 PM , Rating: 3
quote:

by shaw on January 12, 2007 at 10:10 AM

Oh no! They're trying to create a new Outer Heaven!
George Bush: We're sending you in to dismantle the terrorist members of piratesbay dot org at Sealand. We can't risk sending in more than one person for this mission or an international crisis might happen.
Snake: This should be an easy mission, no problem.
George Bush: There is also a need to stop their deadly weapon as well, Metal Gear Warez.
Snake: Warez?
George Bush: Warez are illegaly distributed programs and MP3s.
Snake: MP3s?
George Bush: Do you remember the Solomon project?
Snake: You mean the project where General Solomon of the United State Marine Core during the Persian Gulf created music for his soilders to listen to? I heard he did it to calm them down from the intensity of the battlefield.
George Bush: Well that's what you've been told. The truth is that General Solomon was recording his psionic messages into a new compressed format of music known as the M usical P ersistence of 3 Powers. Later it was shortened to MP3.
Snake: Gotcha.
George Bush: You have your weapon?
Snake: Yeah. I have my Springfield Armory XD-45 "Sausage Hotpocket" pistol with me.
George Bush: Excellent! Good luck!


Ha ha ha ... %D
Wonder why can't I rate the comments any more, anyway a + for you!


RE: Uh oh
By bovinda on 1/12/2007 4:46:43 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Wonder why can't I rate the comments any more, anyway a + for you!


Yeah, I can't rate any comments either. Did I miss an announcement?


RE: Uh oh
By stromgald on 1/12/2007 7:17:06 PM , Rating: 2
You can't rate comments after you've posted a comment . . .


RE: Uh oh
By MustaineC on 1/12/2007 10:41:02 PM , Rating: 3
No, I can't rate either, even before having posted.


RE: Uh oh
By Sebec on 1/13/2007 4:08:17 PM , Rating: 2
Me too, and it's been this way for about a month.


RE: Uh oh
By pakigang on 1/14/2007 1:04:10 AM , Rating: 1
me three


RE: Uh oh
By tsapiano on 1/14/2007 2:14:28 PM , Rating: 2
Same here.


RE: Uh oh
By blueoasis66 on 1/19/2007 11:05:03 PM , Rating: 2
I love it :)


By kattanna on 1/12/2007 11:48:43 AM , Rating: 4
first off...what ISP is going to sell then a connection to the net when they know full well in advance it will be nothing but pirated material?

second..if someone does, then all local ISPs have to do is simply block the IP ranges

its not gonna fly





By knowyourenemy on 1/12/2007 12:27:27 PM , Rating: 2
Money talks. :P


By mindless1 on 1/12/2007 12:49:10 PM , Rating: 4
Under this theory you have, they wouldn't even be on the internet at present.

There is an important thing to remember - those most vocal about anti-piracy measures are those at least indirectly profiting from (prevention) in some way. Take away the incentive to interrupt your regular business with playing software cop, and you are left in a non-discriminatory position. There are plenty of ISPs that don't consider themselves responsible for what a website does and will merely, reluctantly cooperate with law enforcement in limited ways but still make the migthy $ off their client.


By cochy on 1/12/2007 1:23:23 PM , Rating: 3
I agree on this being very stupid. One can not just delcare oneself to be a sovereign nation (guess they never watched Family Guy ;) ). You at least require International recognition. If they international community does not recognize you as a separate nation, then it doesn't matter what you say you are. Without the protection of a real host nation the FBI will walk in and arrest them. They will be treated just like real pirates, lol how ironic. Real pirates can operate in international waters as well.

quote:
Those committing thefts on the high seas, inhibiting trade, and endangering maritime communication are considered by sovereign states to be hostis humani generis (enemies of humanity).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates#International...


By cochy on 1/12/2007 1:43:53 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm well as a follow-up, it appears that this Sealand installation is not even in international waters to begin with. It's in British waters. This makes this whole deal even dumber than before. Anyway these Piratebay guys love to talk trash.


By Kyteland on 1/12/2007 3:38:32 PM , Rating: 3
The UK didn't redefine its territorial waters to be 12 nautical miles until 1987. Sealand declared itself a sovereign nation in 1967, and was well within international waters at the time.


By masher2 (blog) on 1/12/2007 4:55:09 PM , Rating: 1
As others have pointed out, a declaration of sovereignty is meaningless without international recognition. If Britain claims those waters, then they belong to them. Like it or not, in cases of territorial dispute, might makes right.


I'm invading
By qrhetoric on 1/12/2007 9:43:48 AM , Rating: 2
I think armed with a single handgun I could probably invade. I shall then form a peaceful dictatorship.




RE: I'm invading
By OrSin on 1/12/2007 9:56:05 AM , Rating: 2
Actually in the 80 or 90 someone group tried to invade them to take it over. They did realize thte Own was former military and had the place setup to stop that from happening. I think then even stop the England navy once.
They used to be hardcore badasses at one piont.


RE: I'm invading
By Ringold on 1/12/2007 12:13:37 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing a Tamahawk, or an angry A-10, couldn't fix.


RE: I'm invading
By cochy on 1/12/2007 1:36:16 PM , Rating: 3
Right...A rig like that repelled the Royal Navy. Lord Nelson would be rolling in his grave.


RE: I'm invading
By ZoZo on 1/12/2007 4:41:56 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
In 1967–8 Britain's Royal Navy tried to remove Bates. As they entered territorial waters, Bates tried to scare them off by firing warning shots from the former fort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealand

Since Bates was not removed, he kind of did manage to repel the navy !


A great plan
By frobizzle on 1/12/2007 10:12:02 AM , Rating: 2
Okay...here is what they have to do: Decree that they are a sovereign nation, then declare war on the United States. To avoid an international escalation by all of Pirate Bay's allies, the US will send them millions of dollars in foreign aid!




RE: A great plan
By lufoxe on 1/12/2007 10:23:41 AM , Rating: 4
sounds like that one pinky and the brain episode where they make their own nation. haha. Yes I realized I mentioned pinky and the brain on a daily tech forum... but it's worth it


RE: A great plan
By Hawkido on 1/12/2007 12:17:58 PM , Rating: 3
Since you mentioned it, I presume you have seen/read "The Mouse that Roared"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mouse_that_Roared

A small nation declares war on the US, with the intention of surrendering before the first shot is fired, in an attempt to sue for reparations under the Marshall Plan.

Very Funny


RIAA will blast those fools
By anonymo on 1/12/2007 11:20:42 AM , Rating: 3
PB: Woot! Sealand! Freedom!
US: Stop infringing on our copyrights!
PB: Hellllll naw! This is our country we are free to do as we please!
US: Sorry, what was that? I can't hear you over that humming. What is that? Is that a nuclear reactor?
PB: WTH?
US: Trying to make WMDs huh?
PB: crap <BOOM>

Lesson of the day. If you are surrounded by innocent Sweds, no one can fire an ICBM at you.




RE: RIAA will blast those fools
By vdig on 1/12/2007 11:50:19 AM , Rating: 3
Even if the pirates got Sealand, invading a country/sovereign state of 5-50 people is WAY too easy. Declaring war against said people, almost as easy. Silly idea for the pirates, if you ask me. Better to hide under the laws of different nations than to be a country that violates the efforts of citizens from other established countries.


By Anonymous Freak on 1/16/2007 6:49:20 PM , Rating: 2
Read some of the other posts. Sealand *HAS* been invaded. TWICE. Yet they prevailed.

The first time was by the British Navy! The second time was a group of 'businessmen' who tried to kidnap the son of the "king" of Sealand. They were repelled by the superior firepower of the Sealanders.


Picture
By Spivonious on 1/12/2007 9:30:10 AM , Rating: 4
Does anyone else think that photo looks like someone's homemade plywood G.I. Joe base sitting on two rusty barrels at the beach?




RE: Picture
By fxnick on 1/20/2007 1:36:09 AM , Rating: 2
LMFAO


economy
By adeadparrot on 1/12/2007 9:38:49 AM , Rating: 2
Doesn't seem like they'll be able to do much farming, so they'll eat a lot of seafood and export files for some sort of profit?
I think they're doing this because Sweden is getting pressured to lock them down (even though Sweden doesn't care a bit). If they're operating somewhere else, then Sweden looks like they care.




RE: economy
By dice1111 on 1/12/2007 10:46:42 AM , Rating: 4
No farming? You could do all the gold farming you want there. Then ship in all the KD a man could eat.


WAR !!
By ducho on 1/12/2007 4:09:22 PM , Rating: 2
That could be dangerous ... I think US President George Bush will send 200.000 soldiers to Sealand to arrest their president in the name of the RIAA and the MPAA




RE: WAR !!
By mxrider on 1/12/2007 5:11:12 PM , Rating: 2
Then insurgants will pop up, forcing Bush to send 21,500 more troops to the tiny island........

P.S. i support our troops and our president.


RE: WAR !!
By blueoasis66 on 1/19/2007 11:06:59 PM , Rating: 2
And you're not a horrible person for doing that either, nomatter what the lib's say :)


Boat vs Island
By smitty3268 on 1/12/2007 11:27:37 AM , Rating: 2
Wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy a big ship and park it out in international waters? Or does that still have legal issues associated with it?




RE: Boat vs Island
By AkaiRo on 1/12/2007 12:33:30 PM , Rating: 3
There's already such a project underway. It was featured on the Discovery Channel last year. Larger than any sea going vessel that exists today.

Maybe these guys should read "Cybernation" from the Tom Clancy's Net Force series before they try something like this.


Prices start at what???
By encryptkeeper on 1/12/2007 9:16:35 AM , Rating: 4
Donate money and you will become a citizien.

Sure I'll join your cult...




Sealand
By Zurtex on 1/12/2007 9:27:22 AM , Rating: 2
I've heard about Sealand before, in the U.K there was a T.V show called "How to start your own country" and it did a brief section on Sealand, the history and surrounding stories of it is a pretty funny read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealand




RE: Sealand
By itlnstln on 1/12/2007 11:01:52 AM , Rating: 2
I guess the asking price is winning one good fist-fight w/Prince Bates.


Still a long way to go!
By PrinceGaz on 1/15/2007 8:17:42 AM , Rating: 2
From Wikipedia:
quote:
From 2007 Sealand is available for transfer by Spanish estate company InmoNaranja.[20] It is explicitly stated that Sealand is not for sale, as a principality cannot be sold.[21] A sum of between £65,000,000 and £504,000,000 (US$977 million, €750,000,000) is set as the price for the new tenant(s).[22][23][24] Offers of "eight digits or over" are being solicited[25]. In response to the announcement of the availability of transfer, The Pirate Bay, arguably one of the world's largest and most notable BitTorrent trackers, has announced its plans to initiate a fund raiser campaign to attempt to pay for the transfer, and has entered negotiations with the government of Sealand.[26] The campaign, is titled BuySealand. The idea behind the transfer attempt is that The Pirate Bay and greater BitTorrent community would be able to circumvent international copyright laws, thus escaping prosecution from the RIAA, MPAA or other copyright protection associations.[27] As of 15 January, donations are at $13,000.


It's fairly impressive that PirateBay have managed to raise as much as $13,000 for an idea as ridiculous as this, but that's a long way short of the $10,000,000 that would be required to have the eight-figure sum which is apparently what is needed to be even considered. And that's assuming they are talking about US dollars rather than UK pounds, which I doubt.

There's no way they'll be able to buy Sealand, the chances are they'll use the money to set up servers in one of the small but fairly safe countries that are already popular with companies that engage in semi-legal online activities. Actually Sealand is one possible location even though its status as a country is very iffy indeed, as hosting servers is I think Sealand's main and probably only source of income.

At least that's what I hope they do with the money, PirateBay does seems fairly reputable (in a relative sense) so I doubt they're the sort who'd pocket the money and vanish.




RE: Still a long way to go!
By baseball43v3r on 1/18/2007 12:55:45 AM , Rating: 2
considering that piratebay gets an estimated 60K a month from advertisment alone (according to the MPAA newspress), they probably have quite a bit stashed away.
What i find most interesting is how the MPAA and RIAA are able to find out how much money they are losing. How can u make money if people weren't going to buy the product in the first place. i download illegally, but that doesn't mean if i had the money to buy the product i would, so the music companies wouldn't be making money off me anyway. i know i'm going to get flamed for that but thats just my stance. i'm not going to claim that downloading illegally isnt wrong, but i will say i dont like the way the MPAA and RIAA are embellishing certain aspects of the whole controversy. We are forced to take what they say at face value, and we really dont know what all they say is true.


Wowzers.
By shilala on 1/12/2007 9:32:40 AM , Rating: 2
That's some seriously funny shiznit.
Hats off to them for constructive thinking.
You gotta roll your eyes at the length folks will go to in order to avoid laws.
If you ask me, the whole idea pretty much screams "Yes, we're guilty as hell and we know it!!!"
Kinda takes the proverbial "wind out of your sails" when they have to fight accusations in court.




Neal Stephenson is to blame....
By rtrski on 1/12/2007 10:10:47 AM , Rating: 2
Someone took "Cryptonomicon" waaaaaaaay too much to heart.

Good book, but really folks....




Actually
By shaw on 1/12/2007 1:08:36 PM , Rating: 2
For some reason the first though which came to mind after looking at the picture was the movie Waterworld.




Pirate Bay is Lord!
By pd9s65 s 0d68 on 1/12/2007 1:11:15 PM , Rating: 2
Pirate Bay is Lord!




It's...
By tk109 on 1/12/2007 1:49:02 PM , Rating: 2
It's going to be an ironic twist of fate when real sea pirates invade them and plunder everything they have.




By phil126 on 1/12/2007 2:19:38 PM , Rating: 2
I knew this was coming years out. You cannot have economic integration without political integration. Political borders mean pratically nothing any more because it is becomming a more intenational economy. Until the current governmental structure realizes they have become obsolete this will become more and more common place.




sealand
By Russell on 1/12/2007 5:58:58 PM , Rating: 2
Governments (including the UK and US) ignore Sealand today because it is not a threat to anybody or anything. It is a joke. As soon as it becomes involved in criminal activities, it will no longer be a joke and will be promptly dealt with.

It's a shame too; I enjoy the joke :(




I smell conspiracy! (Mwahahaha)
By RapidSnail on 1/12/2007 6:15:38 PM , Rating: 2
... clearly PirateBay.org, George Bush, and Internets are keeping something from us ...




By copiedright on 1/12/2007 7:30:27 PM , Rating: 2
There are a lot of 'tin pot' countries out there that would happily offer refuge to the website and the small income associated with the lack of copyright laws.

Maybe some place in Asia, maybe south Vietnam, or some place in Africa. There's a lot of countries that don't give a damn about copyright out there!




International Waters
By copiedright on 1/12/2007 7:33:07 PM , Rating: 2
Any body remember radio Caroline.

Back in the era of heavy broadcast control in England, a radio station went into international waters to broadcast and was evidently not required to adhere to any restrictions.

This is very similar.




Not gonna work
By xstylus on 1/12/2007 9:57:55 PM , Rating: 2
Okay, so let's say they do get their own private little island.

What's to stop another country from imposing trade sanctions, up to and including equipment, resources, and even possibly severing the network connection?

The US has been holding up Russia's entry into the World Trade Organization simply because of allofMP3.com. Think of what they'll do to a tiny ant of a country if their RIAA and MPAA masters tell them to.

All this would accomplish is making themselves an easier and more isolatable target.




NewsFlash!
By bdiddyt on 1/13/2007 5:50:25 AM , Rating: 1
Coming in 2008...

PirateBay launches "SpaceLand" and sets up a datacentre on a spacestation. People who pay to be citizens can buy a ticket there on Virgin's reusable spaceship.

Ha!





"If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion." -- Scientology founder L. Ron. Hubbard











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