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Print 78 comment(s) - last by kmmatney.. on Jul 26 at 11:38 AM

Developer claims that piracy was out of hand with its zombie shooter

When it comes to purchasing apps on platforms like iOS, Android, or Windows Phone, 99 cents seems to be the "sweet spot" that will spark a user to take the chance to hit the "Purchase" button without a second thought. Many of the most popular games on smartphones like Angry Birds or Cut The Rope sell for just 99 cents.
 
Madfinger Games, makers of the popular title Shadowgun, thought it had a winning combination by offering its latest zombie shooter, Dead Trigger, for 99 cents on the Android platform. However, despite the low price tag, piracy was a big problem with the game according to the developers.
 
Regarding price drop. HERE is our statement. The main reason: piracy rate on Android devices, that was unbelievably high. At first we intend to make this game available for as many people as possible - that's why it was for as little as buck. - It was much less than 8$ for SHADOWGUN…
 
However, even for one buck, the piracy rate is soooo giant, that we finally decided to provide DEAD TRIGGER for free.
 
 
Madfinger Games as a result has turned Dead Trigger into a free game with available in-app purchases. The company is quick to point out that this isn't a move to make the game a “freemium” title and that users can still play through the game without ever making an in-app purchase.
 
Interestingly, Dead Trigger is still available for 99 cents in the Apple App Store.

Sources: The Verge, Facebook



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Something does not add up to me
By kleinma on 7/23/2012 1:06:50 PM , Rating: 5
This makes little sense to me. The reason they are offering it for free is because many people were stealing it for free?

If the game had 1 million people who have it, and only 10% bought it, that is still 100K in legit downloads (not including fees). Are they saying everyone playing it has pirated it?




RE: Something does not add up to me
By Nortel on 7/23/12, Rating: 0
RE: Something does not add up to me
By nolisi on 7/23/2012 1:47:28 PM , Rating: 3
It's kind of dumb logic. Adobe doesn't blame Microsoft or Apple for not doing anything about piracy on traditional computers- they develop protection mechanisms to discourage piracy.

The point of Android is that it's open and you can install software from where ever you want. You don't have to go through Google Play. By the same logic: they don't have to put their software on Google Play either. They can choose to sell it independently or on Amazon Market and avoid the Google tax.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By Cheesew1z69 on 7/23/2012 1:49:53 PM , Rating: 4
It's Nortel logic... that's why it's dumb.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By Tony Swash on 7/23/12, Rating: -1
By The Raven on 7/23/2012 2:11:49 PM , Rating: 2
So why do you think they are only selling this in iOS for $1?


By Cheesew1z69 on 7/23/2012 2:12:09 PM , Rating: 5
And here is the other AppleDouche...right on cue.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By retrospooty on 7/23/2012 3:42:24 PM , Rating: 5
"I guess Android is not so much 'open' as 'gapping'."

Open is why we love it. Closed OS and closed minds = Apple

"Android - the Windows experience without the revenue."

Tell that to Samsung. (BTW, how did that Windows vs. Mac thing turn out 15 years ago? please remind me.

"Android is winning!"

Best hardware, best software, best variety, best OS, fastest platform, highest sales... Yup, you are correct, it is winning.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By Tony Swash on 7/24/12, Rating: -1
By retrospooty on 7/24/2012 8:37:55 AM , Rating: 4
"Mac sales growth has exceeded PC growth for years."

Uh... OK, yes, the "meteoric rise" from 4% to 6% marketshare is well documented. Nice spin you put on it, but that is what you do.

"Meanwhile poor old Google followed Microsoft/Windows failed playbbook and created an Android space where nobody except Samsung can make any profits. "

Long haul Tony, look at the big picture. Even Apple was nearly out of existence before MS plugged them full of cash. Now the profits are simply amazing. I agree, that most of the while (up to and including Android 2.x) Android wasn't as good and Apple was the best thing out. The market swung their way. Now, in 2012 Android as a platform has the best hardware, best OS, best variety, it is the it is the fastest platform, and it achieves this speed even on inferior hardware like the 1.2 ghz TI OMAP cpu's in the Nexus. It also has the highest sales... It has the most flexibility as well. I can see by your constant posting tryingto change minds that this worries you. Oh well, I am sure the iPhone 5 will be revolutionary with its 4 inch screen and 4G connectivity. Oh wait, too late Android had that all well over a year ago along with Micro sd, removable batteries and micro usb.

Apple lost it's superior platform by dawdling and you know it. Apple needs to up their game again. They are capable of it, lets see if they can pull it off.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By TheJian on 7/24/2012 9:33:31 AM , Rating: 2
LOL. It's kind of hard to go anywhere by UP from 1% market share. Note it's slowing growth now :) IN EVERYTHING. Sting a bit Tony? Kindle fire 17.4% and a declining market for ipad sting a bit? The $200 tablet market and Nvidia is about to kill your ipad2-4 sales...LOL. Say goodbye to overpriced $500-700 tablets pal. Apple is already doing what the market is forcing them to do. Build a $200 tablet...LOL. I'm sure they'll try to get $300+ for the 7in but good luck with that. Retina will be standard fare next year and all will have 10in (google/Amazon working on cheapo ones now with KAI or Tegra3). Get ready for a swamp of $200 tabs, and quality $350-400 tablets. Anything over that will be having a hard time. Microsoft/Google/Amazon are about to eat Apple's ipad lunch. A few super powered models at $400-500 may do ok but $500+ will have issues competing. I see both kindle fire 1 and nexus 7 as a little too low quality but another $50 on each would remedy that issue. Google already makes $40 on the 16gb model so this can be done.
https://www.npdgroupblog.com/shipments-are-not-sal...
Don't forget they only sell Kindle Fire in USA...LOL. Global is coming Tony. Get ready...LOL.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/adriankingsleyhughes/2...
Check the trefis ipad pricing...LOL, down a hundred this year, iphone too. Margins too. The charts go on and on against apple. It's a cheaper world when you're no longer special :) If everything has retina, it will all be about gaming. Nvidia seems to understand this and is throwing money at devs all the time, while apple ignores and takes profits. It's a short term victory then 1990 apple all over again as they price themselves to death expecting people to continue paying uber prices for the same thing everyone else has. Still special today, but quickly coming to an end in both phones and tablets. Mac's are already outclassed by PC's for 30-40% less cost and much more software choices for the same jobs. Adobe/MS Office have MANY competitors on the PC side as do all other apps. Choice is KING and always will be. Supply chain antics and lawsuits will only get you so far. Time to compete apple...ROFLMAO. Welcome to the 1990's again...LOL.

Explain to intel how crappy the PC is with pretty much record profits for years. If windows is a declining market how is it Microsoft sells more of each version of windows? You're just distorting facts here. There's enough growth to have PC positive growth and mac growth for a while longer but not much longer :) You now have to convince true windows users to switch and that's a tough sell with fewer games/apps. Even though I HATE MS, I can't switch to Apple. Sell Mac OSX on PC's and you have a better chance of one day converting us. Not as it stands though, they're headed straight back to 1990.

Apple's sue happy days are about to end via Posner/EU etc. The lucy Koh's will be weeded out for the frauds they are. If Apple hadn't paid customs to screw HTC at the border they would be swimming in profits also. The devices had already been updated to NOT INFRINGE (if you can even say they really did to begin with, with all these asinine patents they have). The lawsuits have been the problem not the ecosystem. Mac is not as big as Microsoft, and android activations FAR exceed apple's these days and for a LONG TIME.

I'm hoping Samsung cuts them off at the knees and just denies all parts for iphone5. What would they do then? Scramble to put together an new model for 6 months?...LOL. Watch Samsungs profits SOAR then. No iphone5 for xmas? They'd have to go to sandforce for SSD's...LOL. Intel won't sell that cheap to apple and has no need to buckle. Micron couldn't produce enough for them and I see no other alternative that would keep quality high. Samsung can decide to screw apple any day of the week if they have balls. It would destroy apple for a good 6 months to a year as they scramble for other suppliers and redesigned everything. NO glass, SSD, Memory, SOC etc. Can anyone argue all of these changes would hurt dearly for apple? I hope Samsung does this since Galaxy S3 is selling like hot cakes still and would for even longer if they kill iphone5 via no parts...ROFL.

Mac revenues are NOT greater than windows revenues (neither in OS nor PC sales revenue). Do you read income statements at all? Do you have any actual data to back up all your fud?
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/financi...
Record net income this year...ROFL. Whatever dude. One hell of a year for 2010 and 2011 also. Look for 2012 to beat both for the FY. Say again? Apple may be making more because of ipod/ipad/iphone but Intel is making more than previous years purely because they are selling MORE CPU's than before year after year after year. PERIOD. AMD would make money too, if they had a better product. They usually sell out, but when you're selling at a loss - well, you get losses...ROFL. Let me know when you start backing up your stuff with actual DATA instead of opinions. Microsoft isn't crying over windows sales. Office vs. Google at 1/10 of the price...Well, that's s different story.
"Marginalising Microsoft was so easy."
Marginalising Microsoft OFFICE was so easy for GOOGLE.
There, fixed it for you :)


RE: Something does not add up to me
By retrospooty on 7/24/2012 11:15:37 AM , Rating: 2
"Apple's sue happy days are about to end via Posner/EU etc. The lucy Koh's will be weeded out for the frauds they are. If Apple hadn't paid customs to screw HTC at the border they would be swimming in profits also. The devices had already been updated to NOT INFRINGE (if you can even say they really did to begin with, with all these asinine patents they have). The lawsuits have been the problem not the ecosystem. Mac is not as big as Microsoft, and android activations FAR exceed apple's these days and for a LONG TIME."

This is so true... And it worries Tony and the Mac nutjobs (note, I mean Tony, Testerguy, Mickael2k and other zealots, not most people that buy Apple products, just the nuts).

That and the fact that they have seen the Jelly Bean demos and how incredibly ffast it is even on on old hardware like the Nexus w/ TI OMAP 1.2ghz. Wait until we get it on the SGS3 (which Samsung has announced that its coming on it, and the SGS2 as well). Its going to scream! I cant wait to try it. My SGS3 is Verizon, so it has alot of Verizon crapware on it and it STILL screams with Android 4.0. With 4.1 its going to be amazing!.



RE: Something does not add up to me
By Cheesew1z69 on 7/24/2012 1:33:21 PM , Rating: 2
Lovin my S3! It's sick fast!


RE: Something does not add up to me
By retrospooty on 7/24/2012 1:46:01 PM , Rating: 2
Cool, you got it!

The speed is great, and with the jelly Bean upgrade in the works it will be even better.... But as fast as it is, the thing that still gets to me is the screen... I cant get over how great HD video looks on the 4.8 inch screen. I will never EVER go back to a small screen again.


By Cheesew1z69 on 7/24/2012 8:43:19 PM , Rating: 2
The screen is AMAZING. And can't wait for JB!


RE: Something does not add up to me
By Tony Swash on 7/24/12, Rating: -1
By xthetenth on 7/25/2012 8:05:19 AM , Rating: 2
So we're comparing OS revenues to the combined revenues of OSes and computers. Gotcha.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By TheJian on 7/25/2012 8:52:50 AM , Rating: 2
ROFLMAO. Umm, first of all windows is an OPERATING SYSTEM. Mac's are by definition a COMPUTER (or PC for that matter...LOL). You're comparing sales of an OPERATING SYSTEM to HARDWARE W/Operating system. So let me get out my calculator to figure up total sales of PC's with Operating systems...Never mind it's an unbelievably freaky huge number. So microsoft is essentially making as much in revenue from just SOFTWARE as entire MAC sales including the hardware...ROFL. Keep spinning those numbers Tony.

Microsoft's numbers are down as people wait for Win8 coming Oct 26th. Not that I want that piece of crap, but that's reality whenever MS kicks off a new OS and it's only a few months away. Most wait. Still though, I was comparing revenues from windows based machines to OSX based. Or even if that wasn't a correct assumption, you can go with OSX sales vs. Windows (Pure software sales all flavors...xp, 7 etc). It dwarf's Apple's sales software to software. Which also means every piece of good software has a LOT more people to sell to on PC's hence apple either waits for a mac osx version or it just never comes. Your market is just approaching being big enough to get game devs to do concurrent development of games but apps are still far greater on PC's. Only major games get that treatment now, so I may have just overstated dual dev a bit just now. For 90% of the games out there mac's wait or just get passed by.

Kindle fire took nearly a 1/3 away from ipad sales in 4th quarter and it didn't do 1/2 of what Google's 7in can do. Expect the combo of amazon, google and MS to do even more damage this xmas. They will all have a 7 and 10in (directly competing on apples turf) and all based on a pretty dang good gaming soc in tegra3 and will be die shrunk by then too. At that point it will all be about better gaming in my mind. I already explained Dev's loving working with Nvidia (for years on PC, now mobiles just extending that relationship). Witness Ouya's comments on it being GREAT to work with Nvidia to get the most out of their hardware on Ouya. Do you see any apple devs getting apple handouts? Nope. Does any game that's on both platforms look better on apple than nvidia? Coincidence all 3 makers went Tegra3 for their tablets? They all see gaming being a draw for eyeballs. There's a reason David/Tom Gardner love Nvidia, and the Motley Fool has picked them as a disruptor stock. Lots of devs get a helping hand in making their game on NV chips (gpu's or socs).

Google already took out Siri (IMHO, check youtube vids on siri vs. google - dang google is fast!...LOL), retina is coming to everyone and there will be FAR more options on Android's side. Not to mention devs will quickly see a far larger audience in android users. Estimates are for Android to activate 320mil devices this year, while Apple expected to activate 119million. OUCH. That can't continue for long before you end up exactly where you are on the PC side vs Mac. Tons of great options vs. 1 for Mac in whatever type of app you choose. Apple better stop soldering batteries in, reducing options etc or they'll face lackluster sales shortly. All of Microsoft's main products are at the end of their cycle and about to be replaced. I'm not at all shocked people will wait until Oct for Win8, or a little later for Office 2013/server 2013. This should be their worst quarter or two and is ALWAYS that way before a complete product line refresh...LOL. Whatever...

Nice to see the only thing you could do is compare apples to oranges to pick on anything in my post :) Thanks for proving my points. Just like Google is about to eat Microsofts OFFICE cash cow (2mil for office vs. 200K for google apps...OUCH), a whole group of competition is about to force apple to compete on products/price. That's not going to be easy without lawsuits...ROFLMAO. Once android has tons of good Nvidia games (gamepads already work great) consoles and DirectX (meaning windows) will seriously get hurt. You will be able to replace windows and get games/Office. Windows won't be so special, never mind what I think about your mac sales :) I can't wait for a google OS with games and a far more advanced google apps suite. New build for google apps coming this xmas or back to school possibly. Hmmm...Interesting times ahead. ;) Google will give away tablets at near cost until Apple chokes on them :) I'm guessing they'll do the same in phones eventually as they truly fire up the motorola division and defork all the forkers (amazon et al). Should I trademark defork and forkers tony? ;)


RE: Something does not add up to me
By Gio6518 on 7/23/2012 7:16:59 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I guess Android is not so much 'open' as 'gapping'.


No just shows how the technologically illiterate purchase iDevices, while people that are technologically intelligent, purchase superior devices with a superior OS.

While the very few tech savvy individuals that do purchase inferior devices such as the ones that start with i , ending up jailbreaking them and pirating software.


By elleehswon on 7/25/2012 8:47:06 AM , Rating: 2
yea, apple's app market is way more secure....:rolls eyes:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Apple-iOS-6-App-Purcha...


RE: Something does not add up to me
By Nortel on 7/23/12, Rating: -1
RE: Something does not add up to me
By bug77 on 7/23/2012 3:38:20 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Apple does everything within their power to prevent piracy


Government would do anything in their power to prevent you being harmed. You just need to give them access to your mail, email, phone calls and whereabouts.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By TheJian on 7/24/2012 8:06:13 PM , Rating: 1
NO. Apple does everything they can to stop you from cutting THEM out of the 30% fee they get off everything that goes through app store.

It has nothing to do with devs which they don't help at all.

This whole article is bunk. The game in question is the same as the last. A FREEMIUM game that attempts to RMAH you to death like Diablo 3. See my previous post. People aren't even pirating this game as it's a lowly rated game with IN GAME annoyances (any real money auction house is just a pricing scam). We don't like in game purchasing. Devs need to get the message or their product won't sell. They really shouldn't be surprised. The people won't be fooled forever, they eventually wise up...Eventually :) Are sales super brisk on IOS? I think NOT. I'm wondering if this isn't just some apple money at work. A bit pissed about samsung knocking them off #1 sales in phones, hence next weeks 2.5billion+ lawsuit. I hope Samsung just quits selling them parts 100%. Turnabout is fair play. I'm guessing S3 sales would be brisk all year then...LOL. iphone 5 would be delayed by 6+ months most likely :) YAY. If there is no iphone 5 how can you be sued for infringing it again...ROFL.

Hopefully Judge Posner will figure out how to get this in his court again... :) Followed by him tossing it out and fining Apple 2.5billion for stupid trademarks and asinine court cases that are WASTING MY TAX DOLLARS!


By xthetenth on 7/25/2012 8:11:42 AM , Rating: 2
Some free to play games handle it well. Some handle it terribly. STO blatantly cash-whores and it sucks, while World of Tanks isn't nearly as awkward about it, and works really well. Being able to play the full game without spending a cent, but having the ability to pay for convenience right at your fingertips seems to be the key, most other ways tend to be blatant cash grabs or not generate revenue.


By robinthakur on 7/24/2012 7:21:41 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think it's dumb logic really. Games are not free to make and the age of teenagers designing apps in their bedrooms is over. Games developers have business plans to secure the funding required to hire staff and create a game and part of that is how to monetize their investment. When a significant percentage of users bypass what little security is available on the official google play store and get all the content for free, what incentive is there, assuming you aren't just a hobbyist?

Even "freemium" apps are not immune as I've seen countless posters here saying "I turn off the ads" or saying even that people have realised that games in general are "not worth paying for", or that the game is carp. Say what you will about ios users and how 'dumb' they might be, but without buyers on the iOS platform, most developers would go bankrupt overnight. Some of you would do well to consider how you might feel and handle it if you were the developers trying to make a profit from the project and not consumers looking to get everything for free.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By Totally on 7/23/2012 1:58:35 PM , Rating: 2
Um no. It's simply if ppl want it for free it's going to be free*
.

.

.

.
*with ads


RE: Something does not add up to me
By The Raven on 7/23/2012 2:39:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
-They are giving a big middle finger to Android/Google
From user review:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com....
quote:
Well, after paying for the game they changed the price to free (given their IAPs, it should have been from the start). That adds insult to injury. If they are going to switch models this close after launch, early adopters should get some form of restitution, like 1 dollar worth of gold. As it stands, I can recommend now that it's free. This mitigates many of my previous complaints. However as a customer who already paid, the complaints still stand for me. Also, Tapjoy wall works MAYBE 50% of the time.
Sounds like they are giving the middle finger to more than Big G.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By The Raven on 7/23/2012 2:41:11 PM , Rating: 2
Also their download rate has skyrocketed. I'm sure this move wasn't worth it and I should feel sorry for them.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By osalcido on 7/23/2012 8:22:27 PM , Rating: 4
So.. theyre selling this for $0.00 .. but they'll make it up on volume?


RE: Something does not add up to me
By TSS on 7/24/2012 9:50:57 AM , Rating: 2
Yes they will, because of selling it for $1 and no ingame store purchases is less profitable then offering it for free with cosmetics you can buy in the game.

This way, your profit model is independant of piracy. The game can't be pirated since it's free - but that means some of the people who'd normally pirate it and spend nothing, will buy an ingame item because the option is there. While using "pirated items" is still a long way off.

There are more people willing to spend more money this way then selling your game with everything in it for an initial step in price. Those who refuse to spend $1 will easily spend $15 on the same game if it's free and they like it after they've played it, and want more of the same.

IMO for the time being it's not a bad model at all, possibly even superior to sell everything upfront model we had before. Everybody has acces to a ton of games wether you're poor or rich, while you can still spend money on the games you actually like, since you've already played it you know what you like. It's a win-win situation for all involved.

Until the time there are so many games with microtransactions that people will refuse to move on because of having invested too much time and money in the current games and the rate at which new games will be released slows down, probably leading to a few big developers shutting down (betting everything on a big project, people don't buy it because they're too invested in it's previous itiration, project fails company dies). But the industry will find a new model after that.


By xthetenth on 7/25/2012 8:24:48 AM , Rating: 2
It makes a lot of sense. One potential way to keep the market growing is to bundle the new games with the old for at least some of the paid stuff. For example, if a player on one of a publisher's games has bought premium time (basically just an increase in rewards), why not make it work for all their games? That way there's more inducement to play that publisher's games, the premium time looks like a better deal, and gets the player looking at the paid stuff for the new games. That way the new games are boosted by the old rather than held back. It's a really sound business model when done right, and it significantly reduces the potential of shovelware. The main potential issue is blatant cash grubbing, but that tends to be seriously discouraged by it pissing off players. I'm kind of hopeful that free to play games won't be nearly as dependent on the traditional stuff like marketing and a big name as on simply being good. Unfortunately, the styles of games where it works really well seem to be somewhat limited. I don't see much appeal in most single player games where things like a coherent single narrative and game balance get in the way, for example.


By sprockkets on 7/23/2012 2:40:43 PM , Rating: 2
Google HAS done something about it, in the way of changes made recently to the google store with signing and encyprption of apps.

Not like that stops anyone from pirating, on android or on iOS with jailbreaking.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By johnnycanadian on 7/23/2012 1:58:53 PM , Rating: 2
10%? That would have been a gift. I work with a firm that released the same game (at $1.99) on iOS and Android. iOS piracy was around the 35% mark. Android? a little over 94%. Needless to say we're 100% iOS now. Until Google starts taking piracy seriously that market is dead to us.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By The Raven on 7/23/2012 2:11:10 PM , Rating: 2
I guess you miss out on all the free pirated games ;-P

Of course I am just joshing you. May I ask how you calculated the 35% and 94%?

Also I still don't understand why a company would give up on getting the x% for Android (even if Google gets a cut).

Granted the 6% that you say this game was getting probably isn't worth the effort. But then again after reading this article and listening to their whining I am tempted to buy an Android device that can install this game just so I can pirate it (eventhough it is free lol). That might explain some of the pirating. There was another company that pissed people off like that too for a PC title but I forgot which it was.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By mcnabney on 7/23/2012 2:44:39 PM , Rating: 5
I suspect those numbers are either BS or distorted. I have two phones and two tablets linked to by Google profile - so if I buy a game once I can install it on all of them. I suspect that if their numbers are based on real data they are probably counting every device besides the one used in the initial install as piracy. So adding tablets or upgrading your phone = piracy because you didn't "buy it again".


RE: Something does not add up to me
By tayb on 7/23/2012 3:07:41 PM , Rating: 2
iFishing reported 98% piracy rate for Android. I have no idea how they obtained that number or if their methods are reasonable but that's what they reported.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By Camikazi on 7/23/2012 4:37:22 PM , Rating: 3
I somehow doubt Android piracy is 98% considering that the majority of people using Android phones don't know how to root let alone pirate any apps. Out of all the people that I know who have Android phones (most all who have smartphones) only maybe 3 even know you can pirate apps in Android and only one would know how to find them (that would be me and I don't pirate apps).


RE: Something does not add up to me
By TheDoc9 on 7/23/2012 6:00:26 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, there's something funny with those numbers. I'm rooted and I buy every app. I'm constantly re-installing of course because of rom updates. So if they're counting stuff like this than their numbers are way off lol.


By johnnycanadian on 7/23/2012 4:17:22 PM , Rating: 2
Back when we could use device IDs as unique identifiers we'd log the first launch with a specific ID. The method isn't perfect (users can install on more than a single device with a single purchase) but they gave us a pretty good idea of the level of piracy on both platforms.


RE: Something does not add up to me
By FlyBri on 7/24/2012 3:19:57 AM , Rating: 2
It's called using "fuzzy math" -- that's how he calculated it, lol. And if they got those figures from somewhere else, then then that source's numbers aren't reliable either.

There is NO WAY that the pirating level on Android is 94%. It might be as high as 60-something percent. I'm not discounting the fact that Android piracy may be a serious issue...but 94%? Give me a break.


By retrospooty on 7/23/2012 3:44:21 PM , Rating: 2
" Until Google starts taking piracy seriously that market is dead to us."

Do let the door hit ya!


RE: Something does not add up to me
By tayb on 7/23/2012 2:03:53 PM , Rating: 3
In game ads I suspect. Similar to what Rovio has done with Angry Birds on Android. In game ads and in-app purchases.

In your example the 900k people who pirated it aren't seeing any ads. They want to change that. Now everyone gets to see ads. The incentive to pirate is largely gone so now they can at least bank on some ad revenue.


By bigboxes on 7/23/2012 3:39:57 PM , Rating: 3
Except that I remove their ads. Bwahahaha!!


By someguy123 on 7/23/2012 4:15:23 PM , Rating: 2
Says right in the article that they've decided to give the game itself away while selling items inside of the game (and probably datamining).

100k in legit downloads isn't bad if this was a one man team, but games can cost a lot to make. They probably think it's more profitable to get people playing, tracking that data, and hoping a few will buy some in-game gear. Seems to work with other free to play games.


By sigmatau on 7/23/2012 6:12:30 PM , Rating: 2
Sometimes the pirated version has ads stripped. Maybe that was the complaint from the company?


This isn't a new concept
By elleehswon on 7/23/2012 1:11:19 PM , Rating: 2
This model has been around in the pc market for quite some time. Make the game free to play, and charge for the add-ons, better weapons, new maps, characters, etc. League of Legends is one game that comes to mind that thrives on this model. APB Reloaded is another one. Hell, Valve's steam platform has an entire section of "free to play" games that use this model. Nothing new here. Most of us Android users know about aptoide.




RE: This isn't a new concept
By Ammohunt on 7/23/2012 2:00:01 PM , Rating: 2
I have noticed this disturbing trend games moving to F2P with an item mall and then they go into the toilet e.g. LOTRO. I absolutely hate this model the reason MMORPG's aren't generating the revenue like they have in the past is because most if not all new games are a rehash of whats been done before with prettier graphics(Diablo III) coupled with the fact their is absolutely no challenge at all in modern games. Dev shops need to innovate and show us something new; balance risk vs reward not switch to item mall type schemes.


RE: This isn't a new concept
By xthetenth on 7/25/2012 8:40:38 AM , Rating: 2
F2P requires a certain structure to the game for the cash options not to feel blatantly tacked on. Since it is actually tacked on in games that went F2P, of course it's going to feel like an unwelcome intrusion trying to push you into spending money. A well structured one on the other hand offers to make progression easier, to get the player more rewards for their playtime and more options for how they play. I've been playing a lot of world of tanks and when it's more a matter of significant convenience and an easier metagame than playing roulette for some ingame item or playing dress up dolls, it's a lot easier to justify paying some.


RE: This isn't a new concept
By KFZ on 7/23/2012 2:11:09 PM , Rating: 2
Except the thing to take away here isn't a lucrative business model, it's the problem of rampant piracy.

This is evidence that contradicts common game piracy arguments such as high prices, DRM or other prohibitive policies that piracy circumvents. This is plainly about people who refuse to pay, so if 99 cents is too much to ask for the game then why would they open their wallets for extra content?

A free game simply means more people playing, meaning more *potential* people that would spend money on extra content. What really needs addressing is the pervasive attitude that piracy is acceptable because there are big rewards and little to no consequences.


RE: This isn't a new concept
By tayb on 7/23/12, Rating: 0
RE: This isn't a new concept
By The Raven on 7/23/2012 2:28:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There are lots of legitimate reasons to pirate certain content but price is NEVER a legitimate excuse.
lol @ moral relativism. I beg to differ. If you buy a CD and you accidentally drop it in front of a bulldozer rendering it unreadable, I'd say the price to replace it is an excuse. If the CD only cost $1 to replace I think most people would just go buy another for $1.

Did you ever think that people are realizing that they don't need games? It is true you know. If they don't pay for them and they stop making great games then who cares? I was fine back in the day when I had a NES. Why do I need to pay someone to entertain me anymore? Maybe I do and maybe I don't. You can't decide that and there is no way in he|| I am going to donate to a "Save the Games" campaign. So how do we find out where the sweet spot is on how much content is enough and how good the content is? Let the market work brother. These dip s--- mother fathers think they should be able to charge whatever they put into it. That is not the way it works. They may have invested too much time and money into this game.


RE: This isn't a new concept
By web2dot0 on 7/23/2012 2:41:40 PM , Rating: 2
The reason piracy exist is ... because you can.

Everybody wants things for free. Someone can create the best game in the history of gaming and people will still pirate. What's you point? Let the market decide ... what? That piracy is ok?

By that token, why don't we let the market decide whether we should rob your house? Remember, don't leave your door locked. Because Thieves are going to rob your house anyways.

You can do what you want with your money. No disagreement there. But follow the rules of engagement. If you feel there are anti-competition practices, speak up. Otherwise, what's your reasoning other than the fact that "You can"?


RE: This isn't a new concept
By The Raven on 7/23/2012 7:23:17 PM , Rating: 2
Who protects my house? I do. The market is deciding if my house will be robbed or not. The market tells me to invest in and lock my doors. It tells me to pay taxes to fund a police force to patrol the streets. It tells me not to hold all of my cash under my mattress. It tells me to live in certain neighborhoods. And it tells me to spend money on those things instead of things as trivial as video games. Bring the thieves on.

My point is the market will decide how much protection I want and how attractive my house is to rob. The protections make it less attractive BTW. At some point there will be so many protections that it is troublesome to me but easy for someone to just kick in the door. Like how we have 3 locks on our front door lol. We only use one of them regularly (deadbolt).

And I hope you appreciate my effort to work with you on this. I hope you can tell that it is an apples to oranges comparison.

IP based companies can change their pricing model or they can deal with thieves the same way I do. They can put up DRM to make it more difficult for us all. Or they can open source it and make the thieve do some work lol. Or people like tayb can cry about DRM instead of the price? Again how is that argument somehow better? Yeah like saying,"I won't pay $50 for that game" is stupid but yet ok to say,"I won't tolerate having to take the CD out of the case every time I play it!"

It is not top down. It is consumer controlled and if consumers want to destroy the gaming industry they can. At any point they can say I don't want to play/pay anymore. What is going on is the TV writers strike all over again and crappy reality TV shows (freemium games) are here to stay. Hopefully we get some open source gaming appreciation at the same time lol.

I am just sick of people complaining that consumers somehow shouldn't dictate how much stuff should cost through exercising alternatives (legal or illegal e.g. $1 games or pirating). That is just the way it works. Consumers are fueling all of this. No one said that we have to have games at the quality level that they are now. It is artificially created by IP laws. That was the intention of the laws. So how do we say that we don't need anymore quality and we are done with the laws? Either don't buy the games, saying that you don't need the quality, or don't obey the laws and say both. Likewise the companies can stop making the games if they are tired of people stealing them. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

And based on the responses I should mention that I am not a big pirate nor a proponent of pirating. I am an opt out kind of guy and find that pirating in many cases contributes to more RIAA/MPAA entrenchment. Open culture all the way bra.

The last thing pirated was the Fellowship of the Ring because I was hoodwinked into buying the theatrical version (I didn't know there was going to be an extended version when I bought it). And we all are guilty of pirating Star Wars. Or at least we should be, and I shouldn't have to explain myself on that.


RE: This isn't a new concept
By tayb on 7/23/2012 3:01:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
lol @ moral relativism. I beg to differ. If you buy a CD and you accidentally drop it in front of a bulldozer rendering it unreadable, I'd say the price to replace it is an excuse. If the CD only cost $1 to replace I think most people would just go buy another for $1.


That isn't stealing. You already bought and paid for the CD you are merely retrieving your purchase. This is a completely different, and legitimate, reason to pirate something. This has nothing to do with price and everything to do with who actually "owns" content. The price argument is BS, as I said before.

quote:
Did you ever think that people are realizing that they don't need games? It is true you know. If they don't pay for them and they stop making great games then who cares? I was fine back in the day when I had a NES. Why do I need to pay someone to entertain me anymore? Maybe I do and maybe I don't. You can't decide that and there is no way in he|| I am going to donate to a "Save the Games" campaign. So how do we find out where the sweet spot is on how much content is enough and how good the content is? Let the market work brother.


If buyers were signaling a prolonged decrease in demand sellers would lower prices or eventually roll over in a mound of debt. Traditional economics would come into play. This is different, though, because buyers aren't signaling a decrease in demand they are signaling a decreased desire to PAY for the product. Sellers add up legitimate sales + pirated copies and conclude that the game is in high demand but more must be done to combat piracy. DRM is born. Congrats.

quote:
These dip s--- mother fathers think they should be able to charge whatever they put into it. That is not the way it works. They may have invested too much time and money into this game.


They CAN charge whatever they want. If you want them to lower their prices ignore their games. That's the only way they'll lower their prices. Decreased demand. You're doing the exact opposite when you pirate. You are the cause of the effects you continue to whine and moan about.


RE: This isn't a new concept
By The Raven on 7/23/2012 6:27:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That isn't stealing. You already bought and paid for the CD you are merely retrieving your purchase. This is a completely different, and legitimate, reason to pirate something. This has nothing to do with price and everything to do with who actually "owns" content. The price argument is BS, as I said before.
My point is that if I could replace the CD for $1 then I would. But I can't so I would pirate it. Price is a factor and not BS. You just admitted that you are wrong by saying that it is ok to pirate in this case.
quote:
This is different, though, because buyers aren't signaling a decrease in demand they are signaling a decreased desire to PAY for the product.
You must know nothing about traditional economics. Signaling a decreased desire to pay = a decreased demand. And just because people are pirating this at record levels doesn't mean much since the supply of this game is infinite. Likewise if everyone says it would be great to have a train that ran from SF to DC doesn't mean that they are willing to spend the needed cash to fund such a thing. Actually putting down cash is the signal. Not a vague thought or a download that a person stole for free.

IP is strange because how 'supply' is affected through new properties. Not new copies of the same game (again because it is infinitely supplied). Pay more for current games and get more new games. Pay less and less for current games, get less and less new games. This is what is being signaled as I see it. People are fine with less new games. Have you heard people complaining about IP lately? "Why doesn't Hollywood come up with original stories anymore?" "Uhhh...another Call of Duty sequel?" Demand IS down.
quote:
They CAN charge whatever they want. If you want them to lower their prices ignore their games. That's the only way they'll lower their prices. Decreased demand. You're doing the exact opposite when you pirate. You are the cause of the effects you continue to whine and moan about.
Hey slow down there nitro. I am not pirating anything. I am just trying to explain why it is happening and why these guys are either stupid or using this as some marketing ploy. I mean their other games are selling for $5 a pop on the Android Market and this particular one is $1 on iTunes. Their story doesn't add up to me. They are the ones whining. I am the one who is happy with a hoop and stick.


RE: This isn't a new concept
By The Raven on 7/23/2012 6:33:37 PM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah...
quote:
If buyers were signaling a prolonged decrease in demand sellers would lower prices or eventually roll over in a mound of debt.

I just saw that Best Buy of all places is offering AC: Revelations for $10. That is right a AAA game that got great reviews and hasn't even been out for a year. And it has been hitting sale prices regularly throughout the year for $20.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncha...
And did you say mounds of debt? You aren't up on current events are you?


RE: This isn't a new concept
By Reclaimer77 on 7/23/2012 6:52:37 PM , Rating: 1
AAA my foot. I'm really getting sick of seeing every console game being rated a 10/10. It's obvious reviewers are being paid off. How can Grand Theft Whatever be a 10 of 10 stars game? Come on, really.

Revelations is worth about 10 bucks in my opinion. It wasn't even that good. But today in the console world anything mediocre is given amazing reviews.

Here's what real gamers think of this "AAA" title
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.3513...


RE: This isn't a new concept
By The Raven on 7/24/2012 2:20:02 PM , Rating: 2
I don't want to complicate the issue but what you are saying is that there are no real AAA games and I would agree. There isn't enough originality or they just string one concept spread thinly over 7 games. But that is an indication of what I am saying about the state of gaming. So yes AC:R is a AAA game because of this trend. And yes GTA4 was a graphically spruced up version of GTA3 (Vice City Rules BTW, though derivative in its own way doh!).

I just pointed this out because the reviews for Duke Nuken were a lot worse than AC:R and now they are both selling at the same price.

But anyway your comment backs up what I am saying regarding the games industry. There is seemingly too much out there = prices are too high.


Going back to Apple
By osalcido on 7/23/2012 8:20:05 PM , Rating: 1
Just on principle... I'd rather not be associated with Occupy losers who think .99Cents is too much to pay for a quality app.




RE: Going back to Apple
By TakinYourPoints on 7/23/2012 10:06:46 PM , Rating: 1
They're shooting themselves in the foot. OS, marketplace, profitability, and hardware fragmentation aside, piracy is another reason why most good mobile apps don't find their way to Android.

The timing on this story is interesting, just recently there was commentary from the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition developers talking about why an Android port is still not likely.

Anyway, it'll be the same as usual with high end mobile apps: Baldur's Gate will come out on the iPad, people on forums will ask why it isn't also on Android, rinse and repeat.


RE: Going back to Apple
By retrospooty on 7/24/2012 12:44:42 PM , Rating: 2
"piracy is another reason why most good mobile apps don't find their way to Android."

Where do you get this info ? Most good apps are available on both, much like playstation vs. Xbox. It's the obscura that exists on Mac only.


RE: Going back to Apple
By TakinYourPoints on 7/24/2012 3:12:15 PM , Rating: 2
Unless you're talking big casual games like Angry Birds or Cut The Rope, there aren't a lot of cross-platform games out there. id and Epic Games make ridiculous sums selling on iOS and currently have zero plans to go Android. Big games like Baldur's Gate and Frozen Synapse aren't planned for Android at the moment.

One of the best iOS games right now is Autumn Dynasty, and again, not on Android: http://www.autumndynasty.com/

Board games are hugely popular on tablets right now, and again, no Android versions out there. Ascension is fantastic, iOS only, same with Magic The Gathering.

The developers of the hugely popular Ticket To Ride said this a few months ago: http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/t...

There is little business case for developing on Android. Having big marketshare in phones means little when OS/hardware/marketplace fragmentation and piracy are such big issues.

To say that there is any similarity in game or productivity app libraries is ignoring the problem.


RE: Going back to Apple
By TakinYourPoints on 7/24/2012 3:16:14 PM , Rating: 2
The author of the PA Report article linked above posted Twitter responses from mobile developers in the comments.

quote:
"Also Android has so many problems inherent to supporting it, it's generally not worth the relatively tiny profits." -Rocketcat games

"game blog commenters are very divorced from the reality of mobile games I lived for years. Handset differences are NOT trivial." -QA Tester for Danger Inc.

"I am a game developer. Our latest game is playable on Android. And I still think Android is a hot mess. So what does that say?" -CEO of Frogdice Inc.

"With engines like Corona and Unity its easier. With so many resolutions and device hardware Android just needs much more testing." -Ratdog games

"I can't even imagine how you would do something like Ticket to Ride on that many different devices and make it look good." -Mike Henry from Twisted Pixel

"About 80% of mobile app profits come from iOS despite Android having a larger handset share." -Celsius Studios


I don't know why this even needs reposting, the issues with Android development have been long known and the difference in quantity and quality in the app markets have been clear for two years now.

Nothing has improved.

If I was an Android user I'd be furious at Google for not doing a better job curating their platform and not making it better for developers and their customers.


RE: Going back to Apple
By retrospooty on 7/24/2012 3:51:07 PM , Rating: 2
I see your point... but I don't see a single title in your posts above that I'd care to have on my phone. ID and Epic? That's so 10 years ago ;)

Well, that and I play games on my PC and console, touchscreen gaming just sucks on any platform.


RE: Going back to Apple
By TakinYourPoints on 7/24/2012 9:05:27 PM , Rating: 2
I play games on my PC and tablet/phone. My consoles collect dust, there's nothing interesting in that arena right now.

Indie developers and games focused on rules and gameplay (rather than the typical BS corridor gameplay in "AAA" games) are where mobile games excel right now. There are really good games there, and its a great balance to things like SC2 and DOTA 2 on the PC.

Consoles, meh, not so much.


RE: Going back to Apple
By TakinYourPoints on 7/24/2012 9:12:25 PM , Rating: 2
Also, CANNOT WAIT for Frozen Synapse to come out on the iPad! It was one of the best games I played last year, and it is one of the few that can benefit from touchscreen control over a mouse. Cross platform multiplayer too!

http://www.frozensynapse.com/


RE: Going back to Apple
By retrospooty on 7/25/2012 11:19:13 AM , Rating: 2
I would disagree. There isn't a single mobile based game that can hold a candle to something like Battlefield 3 or Modern Warfare 3. They just don't have the horsepower of a PC or console. They are sort of in the "Its nice to have while on the go" category, but don't compare in any way shape or form to any real gaming system.


License Keys
By tayb on 7/23/2012 2:00:18 PM , Rating: 1
The Android app market is headed 60 MPH to a license key model. Just wait. There are consequences to having a free and open app market.

In game ads and in app purchases only take you so far and with Android there are ways to block the ads that support the free software. As development costs rise this model will make less and less sense until it's relegated to independent/small development projects.




RE: License Keys
By tayb on 7/23/2012 2:09:03 PM , Rating: 2
I'll add to this that unless Google does something we'll see an eventual exodus from the play store in favor of independent developers handling their own app distribution. They'll be able to avoid the app store fees and handle piracy measures on their own, similar to the Windows software market.


RE: License Keys
By The Raven on 7/23/2012 2:16:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
there are ways to block the ads that support the free software
Yeah and they aren't even that complicated. Its called 'turn off your network connections'.


RE: License Keys
By Reclaimer77 on 7/23/2012 4:09:16 PM , Rating: 2
Why don't you shut up? You've made 20 posts on this all saying the same thing.

Android is just fine the way it is. So some app maker is trying to blame piracy because they didn't meet sales projections or whatever. Oh like we've never heard THAT one before.

Enough with the doomsday predictions, Android has the highest marketshare. App makers are doing just fine.


RE: License Keys
By tayb on 7/23/12, Rating: 0
RE: License Keys
By Reclaimer77 on 7/23/2012 5:34:26 PM , Rating: 2
Nah it's more fun sitting here watching you play armchair tech-analyst quarterback.

"Pirating is super bad guys...and ummm Google is headed for DRM..and and..DUURRR!!! DUUUUUUUUUUURRRR!"


RE: License Keys
By TakinYourPoints on 7/23/12, Rating: 0
By TheJian on 7/24/2012 10:09:50 AM , Rating: 2
Read the reviews PRE FREE game.
http://toucharcade.com/2012/07/03/dead-trigger-rev...
2/5 stars...Great graphics, terrible game...FREEMIUM claimed...LOL

http://www.slidetoplay.com/story/dead-trigger-revi...
"Highly repetitive gameplay; annoying in-app purchase; text-heavy story; some hit detection issues; no multiplayer "...LOL

http://www.gamezebo.com/games/dead-trigger/review
"Lumbering towards mediocrity
I find myself in an odd predicament with Madifnger games. One one hand, they inarguably produce some of the best visuals I’ve ever seen on iOS. Their work easily matches (if not surpasses) benchmarks like Infinity Blade, and blurs the line between console and handheld. And yet, after playing their generic shooter Shadowgun, and now their newest visual feast Dead Trigger, I feel they might have the same problem your zombie hunting protagonist does: lifelessness."

Well, if you produce a game that sucks, don't be surprise when it doesn't sell even at a buck. What do you do when people are annoyed at in app purchase crap? Claim it's not selling because of android to get some publicity and hope some fools actually pay for it (still .99 on apple) or download it and pay for in game purchases...LOL. That crap turns us all off jerkoffs! YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE. Spend more time on adequate gameplay and give up the "graphics hope to fool them" crap. Angry birds sells for a reason...It's actually quite fun for a LOT of people (not me...but to each his own). I wouldn't even pirate ANY of these dumbed down crap games. I'd buy Legends of Grimrock on IOS/ if I owned a smart phone/tablet though... :) Well, maybe at $10. Little screens would have to sell me a cheaper game as I'll revert to PC the second I come in the door. Maybe $15 for both copies to play anywhere ;)

http://toucharcade.com/2012/07/03/dead-trigger-rev...
The visuals are absolutely captivating, and are an excellent inexpensive way to showcase just how beautiful games could be on the new iPad. However, as a game, Dead Trigger just falls flat in terms of implementation offering the same dull freemium-based experience that we've seen before.

Not selling huh? Quit trying to sell crap in your games. Make a better game without the need to Diablo 3 us to death with an RMAH.




$1....
By kmmatney on 7/26/2012 11:38:17 AM , Rating: 2
I don't get why people who can afford to buy a Phone and the associated plan have to pirate a game that costs $1...




Ulterior motives
By ritualm on 7/23/12, Rating: 0
The real question is...
By TechS1 on 7/24/12, Rating: 0
"We can't expect users to use common sense. That would eliminate the need for all sorts of legislation, committees, oversight and lawyers." -- Christopher Jennings














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