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Peugeot 308 Hybrid HDi   (Source: Green Car Congress)
Peugeot's 308 Hybrid HDi to achieve 69MPG

In June, DailyTech brought you details on Peugeot's intention to deliver a diesel-electric hybrid to European drivers. Peugeot stated that the diesel-electric 308 hatchback would achieve over 70MPG on the European cycle.

Peugeot is coming closer to the goal with the announcement of the 308 Hybrid HDi. The vehicle will be showcased at the Frankfurt Motor Show and could reach regular production in 2010.

The 308 Hybrid HDi uses a 107HP 1.6-liter HDI DPFS diesel engine (Euro 5 emissions compliant) in conjunction with a 16 kW electric motor to provide a combined output of 129HP. The electric motor is supplied power via a 200V NiMH battery that is charged via regenerative braking. Power is channeled through the front wheels using a semi-automatic 6-speed transmission.

Peugeot claims that the 308 Hybrid HDi consumes just 3.4 liter per 100 kilometers which translates to 69 MPG for U.S. consumption. CO2 emissions are also 38 percent lower than a comparable 308 diesel.

The market for hybrids is expanding and the addition of diesel-electric hybrids is more than welcome.

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Not bad
By FITCamaro on 8/30/2007 1:29:50 PM , Rating: 3
Only downside is that my head would be in the damn windshield with how far that thing rakes back. Other than that the car doesn't look that bad.

Pretty sad the the diesel engine manages more horsepower than some gas engines in small cars here in the US. And I'm sure the torque is better.




RE: Not bad
By mdogs444 on 8/30/07, Rating: 0
RE: Not bad
By Moishe on 8/30/2007 1:47:44 PM , Rating: 3
at 5'11" you're not big... That's one of the complaints I have about a lot of the newer cars. They seem to be more snug in general.

I've owned a Miata for about 8 years and am used to it, BUT I expect a 2 seat convertible to be small. With the driver seat all the way back I'm at the edge of being too tall (5'10").

I sat in a new Yukon about two years ago and I was surprised at how they designed the thing to be snug. I was actually fairly shocked. The vehicle is huge but the stuff fits around you like a womb. It really makes me wonder if Americans are used to large space inside the vehicle and if car companies are purposefully making things more snug to get people used to the feeling. I know that eventually cars will mostly be small and just enough to get by.

Personally I like comfort and I don't like things getting in the way of my arms and legs... I find that happens with a lot of newer cars (unless you push the seats back). It's as if cars are being designed for smaller people.


RE: Not bad
By lufoxe on 8/30/2007 1:47:51 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Why cant they start making some nice diesel electric motors in higher output to about 200-250HP range that get 40-50MPG and slap them in an SUV?


The reason is simple... weight. These hybrid cars are relatively light (until they add the battery) it's rare to see a small care weigh 3K lbs, but on an SUV it's common to see that and more.


RE: Not bad
By omnicronx on 8/30/2007 1:55:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
it's rare to see a small care weigh 3K lbs, but on an SUV it's common to see that and more.
Most mid size SUV's weigh atleast 4000lbs actually, which validates your point even more. Off the top of my head i think his qx45 must weigh close to 4500. Hell a civic weighs 2000 heh, and thats the base model.


RE: Not bad
By FITCamaro on 8/30/2007 2:04:22 PM , Rating: 3
A base Civic Coupe is 2586 lbs. Only the tiniest, lightest cars are anywhere near 2000 lbs.


RE: Not bad
By omnicronx on 8/30/2007 2:22:34 PM , Rating: 2
They are up to 2500 now? my 1992 civic dx only weighed 2k heh. Then again the 92 felt like a tin can..


RE: Not bad
By FNG on 8/30/2007 2:50:56 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah, I think the Lotus Elise is something like 2040lbs.


RE: Not bad
By theapparition on 8/31/2007 2:49:07 PM , Rating: 2
And that's the base, I think the top line model is closer to 2800.


RE: Not bad
By Merry on 8/30/2007 1:52:25 PM , Rating: 3

Seriously, talk about having to Lean Back in that car. I swear, all those little hatchbacks that are so popular in Europe must be made for midgets.

The car is bigger than the picture seems to make out. Trust me, i've seen one in the flesh.

On another note I wouldnt want to buy this Peugeot. Its predecessor, the 307 was dogged with electrical problems, and its likely that this model will be too.

I for one wouldnt want to be driving a hybrid that has been made by one of the most unreliable car manufacturers, according to a number of consumer satisfaction surveys.

Also, how exactly is an Audi A4 too small for you? Are you some sort of giant? The A4 is considered large by European standards. Also I think you're asking a bit much of Car manufacturers to produce a powerful SUV that gives that sort of mileage. The closest you'd probably get is a conventional SUV such as the Nissan Quashai, which also happens to be very safe by all accounts, as it nearly achieved a full score in its EuroNCAP crash test.


RE: Not bad
By mdogs444 on 8/30/07, Rating: 0
RE: Not bad
By Merry on 8/30/2007 2:02:50 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I understand that, I just found it somewhat odd that the Audi A4 was being described as small. Its certainly bigger inside then my current car is!

Its clear theres a fundamental difference in perceptions of size depending on which side of the Atlantic your from. It doesnt half make me smile when i see cars such as the Jetta and the Focus being described as 'compact' whereas I see them as being fairly large.

Just for the record I drive one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Punto#Mark_1


RE: Not bad
By omnicronx on 8/30/2007 2:27:28 PM , Rating: 2
But look at your acceleration: 0–100 km/h: 15.0s. If it took me 15 seconds to get too 100 here in Canada i would have been hit by a truck at least 10 times by now on the highway ;) For city driving its more than enough though, and the sport models look pretty cool too, funny how they cut the time from 0-100 in half though haha.


RE: Not bad
By Merry on 8/30/2007 2:40:47 PM , Rating: 2
I believe its official 0-60mph is about 14 seconds. You could probably do better than that. you have to bear in mind its a 1.1 litre engine!

I've done 30,000 miles of motorway driving with it since I bought it second hand and never had any problems at all. Its plenty capable of doing anything up to 100mph. Not that I would do that, of course ;)


RE: Not bad
By omnicronx on 8/30/2007 2:48:21 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Its plenty capable of doing anything up to 100mph. Not that I would do that, of course ;)
Oh the max speed is not my problem i am sure you would never have a need to be going 160kmh, but 14-15 seconds is a long time to get to the minimum speed required for a highway. Here in Canada its not unusual for people to go 120kmh in the far right lane especially on a certain toll road i take every morning. The onramps are just not long enough, and i consider onramps where I live to be pretty big, but in some places in the city its no more than 50-60 metres


RE: Not bad
By Keeir on 8/30/2007 2:49:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I believe its official 0-60mph is about 14 seconds


Usually in the US, your lucky if you can do the offical 0-60mph time as its done by a "professional".

The problem is that on many transitions from city-highway driving, 14s+ on a level surface is not going to cut it (for safety). I can think of at least a dozen transitions from 0 (red light) -60mph (speed limit of road) on entrance ramps that take an average of ~8 seconds. Some of them are even uphill!. I gun it in my A4 (1.8T) and don't feel that safe since I am essentially dumped on to a 60+mph road going 55 or less. Entering a US highway going ~60% of the speed limit is not a good thing. Keep in mind that Semi's in the US are also bigger and less manuverable than Europeans Semis.


RE: Not bad
By Merry on 8/30/2007 2:59:35 PM , Rating: 2
I've no idea what the motorways are like in Canada and the US, I can only speak from my experience on UK roads and as I've said i've never had a problem merging onto motorways at all, indeed it frequently annoys me when people in front of me dawdle onto a motorway at 50mph. Most of the time I can get up to about 60-65mph before hitting the motorway, which is fine as trucks typically travel at 55mph.

Of course you can now get a car the same size as mine, which is just as efficient, but faster (See the Grande Punto in the article i linked). As i've said before I would always choose a smaller conventional car over a bigger Hybrid.


RE: Not bad
By Keeir on 8/31/2007 12:51:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I've no idea what the motorways are like in Canada and the US, I can only speak from my experience on UK roads and as I've said i've never had a problem merging onto motorways at all, indeed it frequently annoys me when people in front of me dawdle onto a motorway at 50mph.


That is pretty obvious Merry. But something people in the US/Canada find very annoying is a European lecturing us on what to drive and whats "sufficient". North America has three very important charactistics that help drive the desire for big heavy automobiles/trucks.

1. Population Density (US is 31/sq km versus UK at 246/sq km)- North America is a Big place. In many areas you can literially drive for hours without even a coffee place. NA cars have to be comfortable for long drive times at high speeds on rough roads.

2. Poor City Planning. Not unique to NA (and slightly unfair since I haven't driven in more than 20-30 cities seriously). It seems that often in the US Highways have effective speed limites of 70-80 mph even in cities. And yes, the Semi's travel at 70-80 mph as well. Most on-ramps seems to be built in American Cities for 1960s level of traffic.

3. Cold Winter. Most parts of NA get significantly more snow/freezing rain than most parts of Europe. Yes there are exceptions but 1/3-1/2 of NA absolutely must consider cold weather safety and performance since it is a concern for 1/3 of the year.

These three factors lead to a baseline for success in imported cars. Wheel Base>100in. Wieght>3000lbs. 0-60mph<10s. Cold Weather Reliability.

I saw an article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday. Audi recently introducted the A3 sized car to the US market. It sold 8,000 cars. In comparison the A4 car sold 50,000 cars. The A4 is although a "large" car, the tipping point for size, safety (all-wheel drive), cold weather performance, etc that make it acceptable to NA drivers. A "smaller" car would be acceptable, but it needs to first address those unique issues to North America otherwise it will be a failure (unless incredibly cheap which is hard for imported cars).


RE: Not bad
By TomZ on 8/30/2007 3:00:22 PM , Rating: 2
Hello from another fellow A4 owner!

Anyway, I agree - here in Michigan we even have a few "no ramp" entries onto the expressway. I am thinking of one on the North side of Ann Arbor, where you literally have to stop, and then enter traffic on a 55MPH rated highway. There is a tiny ramp, uphill mind you, so you better be prepared to gun it on that one.

Here's a view of that entryway, in case anyone's interested:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=a...

The white line is where you have to stop (there is a stop sign), and then just a few car lengths and you get to merge.

In my opinion, the faster you can equalize your speed with the speed of other traffic, the faster you are. On the highway, differentials in speed are dangerous, so having some reserve power (torque) to be able to quickly accelerate in certain situations is pretty important for safety. And that also has the side benefit of being more fun, too!