backtop

Print E-mail del.icio.us 86 comment(s) - last by encia.. on Jun 15 at 9:08 AM

Peugeot 308
Peugeot to release diesel-electric hybrid by the end of this decade

Last week, we learned that Honda is ditching its slow-selling Accord Hybrid in favor of a Tier 2 Bin 5 diesel engine for the 2008 redesign. Although the "clean diesel" engine isn't likely to show up on the options sheet until the 2009 model year, the anticipation of a Honda mid-sized sedan with great fuel economy and decent low-end torque has automotive enthusiasts abuzz.

French carmaker Peugeot, however, is combining the technology that Honda is abandoning on the Accord with a diesel engine. The diesel-electric hybrid powertrain will first be used in the recently announced 308 hatchback.

Peugeot claims that the diesel-electric hybrid 308 will achieve over 70 MPG on the European cycle (58.29 MPG US). This compares with the 65.7 MPG (54.70 MPG US) figure for the Toyota Prius on the European cycle.

The release of a mainstream diesel-electric hybrid could throw some water on the fuel economy flame wars that have been taking over the web. By combining near-silent operation of all-electric power around town with the efficiency of a diesel motor during high-demand driving scenarios, customers will get the best of both worlds when it comes to fuel economy.

Peugeot hopes to have the diesel-electric hybrid 308 on European streets by the end of the decade. Currently, "all the work going on now is to reduce the cost," according to Peugeot head Frédéric St Geours.

Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
a step
By derdon on 6/13/2007 3:08:44 AM , Rating: 3
That translates to about 4 litres per 100km for those that do not know what to do with MPG. With careful driving I achieve a regular 4.5 litres per 100km on a Ford Focus with 110hp Diesel engine (including particle filter), that's an MPG of about 50.... No hybridization, just driving and accelerating a little slower, switching to higher gears faster and generally thinking ahead.
Everyone can do this, but a lot of people use 3rd gear while cruising at 60kph, 4th gear still at 80kph. I drove a Toyota Yaris once and you could switch to 5th gear at 50kph(!), if you didn't need any acceleration at that moment this was perfect just for staying at the same speed. Higher gears at lower speeds result in a lot less fuel consumption....




RE: a step
By derdon on 6/13/2007 3:10:40 AM , Rating: 2
Another benefit is that the car will be much more silent when you're switching to higher gears faster.


RE: a step
By BladeVenom on 6/13/2007 11:58:18 AM , Rating: 2
And you get that great diesel smell.


RE: a step
By otispunkmeyer on 6/13/2007 3:54:12 AM , Rating: 3
i got 52MPg out of a 2.2 TDCi mondeo

6 speed FTW and that was at 80-85 on the motorway.

i reckon you could definately pull 60+ by sticking in high gears and gentle acceleration around town.

thats the thing though, you can get any car to return decent milage with a kind driving style. if you drive a prius like a nutter its no better than the equivalent focus...making all the "im a goody goody becuase i drive a prius" all a waste of time.

i could get a renault megane 1.5Dci (90bhp) and with careful driving im sure it'll do the 60+ mpg quoted.

but the thing is how many people drive like that? most probably dont even know that their driving style affects stuff like this...they probably thing you turn the key and magic happens and you move.

also everyones in a rush these days, they wanna get places quickly, so they drive accordingly.

so really, what im saying is...its not really an achievement getting good mpg by driving like a nun. almost anyone can do it. a Z06 will return good milage (for its engine size) if you pootle around in 6th.

it will be a real achievement if this can do 70mpg under normal driving styles (ie brisk acceleration, poor gear choice, doing at 80-85 instead of 70)


RE: a step
By theapparition on 6/13/2007 9:06:29 AM , Rating: 3
Thank you, someone else actually gets it.

I've been screaming all along that EPA estimates are just that, a baseline for comparing models. These estimates in no way translate into the mileage that you will get. Driving style and conditions signifigantly impact that estimate.

A 7.0L Z06 can achieve better fuel economy than any hybrid, under the right driving conditions. The hybrid owner driving like an idiot, racing from stoplight to stoplight won't get anywhere near the car's rating, while the vette driving more sensibly, will get much better than EPA rating. I'm not saying that I think the vette a more efficient car, I'm just saying that ratings are just a baseline and many people quote them as milage that they are actually getting.

I average over 30mpg on my '07 Z06, and that's even with the supercharger pushing it close to 800hp. At 70 on the highway, I'm only pushing 1300RPM. But I'll also be the first to admit, that all goes away when the pedal goes down, but my smile increases. And when I'm driving, there's usually a smile on my face :-)

On a serious note though, driving like a jerk and poor maintenance will affect MPG than any other factors. And commuting close with a less efficient vehicule may be more enviromentally friendly than commuting long with an efficient one.


RE: a step
By GoatMonkey on 6/13/2007 9:25:39 AM , Rating: 2
Hybrids put a real hold on the fun to drive factor at this point. Maybe if they would put out more cars along the lines of the Honda Accord hybrid I would consider one.

The way I see it, the Accord hybrid is closer to what I'm looking for because it has decent acceleration when you want it and decent gas mileage when you don't care. It's a good middle ground, but should get a little better mileage. Now if they would make a smaller lighter weight version. Maybe use a turbo 4. Then add a transmission that is more fun to use, like a VW DSG style transmission. It could even be a diesel.

Hybrids don't need to be boring. It's too bad that most of them are so far.


RE: a step
By ChristopherO on 6/13/2007 1:33:17 PM , Rating: 4
Actually, as far as I can tell, Hybrids *do* need to be boring.

If you look at the Lexus GS350 and GS450h (basically the same 3.5L V6, the 450 being a hybrid). The car is fun to drive but lo and behold the non-hybrid version gets better performance than the hybrid (with less bhp) and the 450h costs $10K more and gives (drum roll please...) 6% better fuel economy.

Hybrid technology is useless in larger cars that many Americans and successful people world-wide prefer to drive. The epitome of this stupidity is the new Lexus hybrid flagship. It gives 5% better fuel economy (on a V8) with something like a $30,000 price premium over the same V8 sans the hybrid system.

A lot of the savings comes from weight savings, reducing survivability during a crash, sound dampening, luxury interiors, etc.

Diesel is clearly a better choice for larger and "more fun" cars.

Unfortunately "Hybrid" is an inane "trendy" word. People don't realize that a single power train will *always* be fundamentally more efficient, cheaper to make, and cheaper to maintain.

Instead of marketing towards a misinformed public, the auto makers should be looking to do diesel and/or diesel electric with a pure electric drive system (non-hybrid as the electric motor would be the only propulsion system). Later you can take those same diesel electric vehicles and swap the diesel for a fuel cell and maintain the overall engineering integrity of the original design.


RE: a step
By GoatMonkey on 6/13/2007 2:15:24 PM , Rating: 2
There seem to be some newer variations on the hybrid theme that could be interesting. There are hybrid systems that pretty much all they do is run the air conditioner and whatever other electronics you have through the energy stored in batteries from regenerative braking. I think the 2008 Jetta is supposed to have something like that, and a few other cars.


RE: a step
By Hoser McMoose on 6/13/2007 2:18:41 PM , Rating: 2
The problem with the Lexus GS450h, from what I can see at least, is not with it's hybrid system specifically but rather that the hybrid drive system is mated to an automatic transmission.

For hybrids to achieve good fuel efficiency a Constantly Variable Transmissions (CVT) is pretty much required, particularly with the way that the Toyota Hybrid drive system works. That is why you can't even buy another transmission option on any of Toyota's other hybrid vehicles.

I do agree with your final point though, the best way forward seems to be a diesel electric setup with a pure electric drive (whether someone calls this a 'hybrid' or not is more a marketing decision than a technical one). Much more efficient design (case-in-point, the GM Volt prototype gets the same fuel economy, AFTER any plug-in charge has been used up, as a Prius but with an extra 40+ rated horsepower and even better performance than that number suggests due to it's pure electric drive). Unfortunately I don't think that this Peugeot is following that model, as best as I can tell it's just like the Toyota setup but with a diesel ICE in place of the petrol one.


RE: a step
By TheGreek on 6/13/2007 9:35:11 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I average over 30mpg on my '07 Z06, and that's even with the supercharger pushing it close to 800hp. At 70 on the highway, I'm only pushing 1300RPM. But I'll also be the first to admit, that all goes away when the pedal goes down, but my smile increases. And when I'm driving, there's usually a smile on my face :-)

That's an excellent point. But as an article about one of the first Callaway Turbo GTI's pointed out - How often do you see eagles walking? :-)

Clearly you have excellent self control, that's not something I think the majority can rely on.

quote:
On a serious note though, driving like a jerk and poor maintenance will affect MPG than any other factors.

I exceed my highway EPA highway estimate as well, and I just passed 215,000 miles. By the way, as you put it, those drivers who drive like jerks think the government is a bunch of jerks for publishing mileage ratings they can't achieve.


RE: a step
By FITCamaro on 6/13/2007 10:31:35 AM , Rating: 2
Can I have a ride? :)

I'm with you man. Driving habits are always the big factor in mileage. You drive around town and a lot of people aren't accelerating slowly. They zoom from light to light. I have a Cobalt SS 2.4L and average 27-28 mpg with city and highway driving. Its rated at 24 and 32 so I'm pretty much in the middle as I should be. All highway I generally get 31. But yes this shows you that a bigger engine doesn't always mean poor mileage as well since you're getting the same mileage on the highway as me with over 600hp more. Granted your car costs 4x as much as mine.

The biggest factors in mileage are tuning, gearing, proper maintenance, and most of all, driving habits.


RE: a step
By masher2 (blog) on 6/13/2007 10:36:55 AM , Rating: 2
> "The biggest factors in mileage are tuning, gearing, proper maintenance, and most of all, driving habits. "

And the largest factor of all in total gas consumption isn't even mileage, but how many miles you drive. Even if you drive like Moses in a well-maintained hybrid, if you're driving 800-1200 miles per week like many people do, your fuel consumption is going to be astronomical.


RE: a step
By TheGreek on 6/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: a step
By masher2 (blog) on 6/13/2007 10:59:21 AM , Rating: 2
> "you may be driving a scooter..."

But we're talking about automobiles here, not mopeds. For autos, mileage varies from around 10 to 50 mpg. That's a variance of 500%.

Mileage, however, can easily vary from 50 miles/week (my mother probably does less than this), up to 2000 miles/week or more. That's a variance of 4000%, a far larger factor.

> "Since the government couldn't possibly make all the calculations required to tax people fairly on your basis..."

When did I suggest taxing people? I'm merely pointing out the flaw in the opposite hypothesis...that proposals to tax people based on vehicle MPG are off base. Its not what you drive, but how far you drive that impacts your consumption most of all.


RE: a step
By TheGreek on 6/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: a step
By masher2 (blog) on 6/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: a step
By theapparition on 6/13/2007 12:07:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
...and I don't believe I have any "followers" here or elsewhere.

Don't be too hasty there.....you might be able to get a tax exempt status if you play your cards right :-)


RE: a step
By GoatMonkey on 6/13/2007 1:36:07 PM , Rating: 2
The church of potato preparation?