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Palm reportedly has 1.5 million unsold Palm Pre and Pixi units. It has halted sales, a sign of the company's deep problems.  (Source: Palm via VentureBeat)
Bad news continues for veteran mobile device maker

Palm, maker of the Pre and Pixi smartphones, is facing desperate times.

American Banking News
 has reported that Palm's production halt continues as it is unable to sell the stockpile of webOS handsets it has built up.  There's no official word from Palm, but the announcement seems likely to be true as Palm stock plunged 30 percent to around $4 a share following the news.

Palm has a rich history and helped to launch the PDA and smartphone movements.  Lately, it has struggled to keep up with Apple iPhone and Research in Motion Blackberry smartphones.  And smartphones have largely killed the market for PDAs, so Palm can no longer seek refuge in that market. 

In 2008, Palm saw the writing on the wall and made an ambitious bid to retake the market.  After much investment, it unveiled webOS, its new smartphone operating system.  In June 2009, the Palm Pre launched on Sprint, America's third largest wireless carrier.  

Commentary on the smartphone and its OS was mixed, but overall was somewhat positive.  The interface was much like the iPhone, but it lacked the iPhone's extensive app library and used slower interpreted code for apps (as opposed to native code).  Perks, though, included multitasking and a physical keyboard.

Since the launch of the Pre, Palm has done its best to beef up its offerings, releasing the cheaper Palm Pixi handset and the Palm Pre Plus on Verizon, the nation's largest network (Sprint was the first to get the Pixi).  It also released a new software development kit that allowed native application code via the Simple Direct MediaLayer.  The results were impressive -- Palm devs were able to quickly port both Doom and Quake to the phone, a feat impossible with interpreted code.

For all that effort, Palm's sales continued to slip as it saw Apple and RIM post gains.  People simply didn't seem interested in the Palm handsets.  


Over The Air
 in February reported that Palm had shut down its production of webOS handsets.  Palm claimed at the time that the shutdown was temporary -- just a closure for the Chinese New Year.

Now it appears that the shutdown was not just for the holidays.  Palm's poor sales, showcased by its miserable Q1 2010 calendar quarter (its fiscal Q3 2010), are catching up to it and it is developing a large overstock of webOS phones.  According to Morgan Stanley Analyst Ehud Geldblum, Palm this quarter produced 960,000 phones, but amazingly has only sold 408,000 of them.  The total overstock is estimated to be 1.5 million units, following a 29 percent drop in sales in the first quarter of this year, which ends at the end of this month.  Palm's revenue has reportedly dropped $22M USD over the current quarter.

To put Palm's unfortunate failure in context, Google's Android sold 5.5 million units in Q4 2009 and Apple moved 7.5 million iPhones.  That means that Palm's sales for entire quarter are approximately the number of units Apple or Google sell in a single week.

Even if Palm was incredibly able to continue the sales pace of its Pre and Pixi (which is perhaps possible given its new Verizon contact), it would take nearly a year before it could sell off its stock.  By then new Android handsets would have arrived, a new iPhone, and Windows Mobile 7 -- all while Palm is stuck trying to unload increasingly dated handsets.

Palm will likely be forced to turn to deep discounting.  At first blush this might seem happy news for the consumer, but ultimately it is 
not a good thing as it will hurt Palm badly, which in turn will hurt Palm's ability to promote a successful app market for consumers.

Despite all the bad news surrounding Palm these days, there was a bit of good news for the company today. AT&T announced that both the Pre Plus and the Pixi Plus will be heading to its network “soon”.


 



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What I would do...
By GTaudiophile on 3/22/2010 10:19:11 AM , Rating: 3
From what I have heard, the biggest downfall of the Pre/Pixi is the hardware. It doesn't have the horse power.

What I would do...

1) Open it up. Give webOS to any OEM who wants it. Let it compete along side WMo7 and Android.
2) Beef up the CPU/hardware. (Up to OEMs now.)
3) Sell an UNLOCKED GSM version for $199 or less.
4) Concentrate on a stellar app catalog.




RE: What I would do...
By piroroadkill on 3/22/2010 10:21:34 AM , Rating: 4
An ARM Cortex A8 with 256MB RAM? I'd say it is plenty powerful. Infact, that's identical to the 3GS.

It runs underclocked at 500 mHz though. Pre Plus has 512MB of RAM, which is indeed double that of the 3GS.

It's not the hardware, from a performance perspective.


RE: What I would do...
By Iridium130m on 3/22/2010 10:31:14 AM , Rating: 2
agreed...i own a Pre and performance is great unless I get more than 8 apps loaded simultaneously. Pre plus solves that problem from what I've read in the forums with the extra RAM.


RE: What I would do...
By deputc26 on 3/22/2010 4:05:28 PM , Rating: 2
RIM should buy palm, WebOs destroys Blackberry OS and while I am an Android guy WebOs is arguably better than iPhone OS or Android.


RE: What I would do...
By Samus on 3/22/2010 6:09:09 PM , Rating: 2
A RIM takeover bid is inevitable if this keeps up.


RE: What I would do...
By retrospooty on 3/22/2010 9:19:13 PM , Rating: 2
Unless Dell or MS buys them first =)

Palm is done, but the IP will live on. Someone will buy them.


RE: What I would do...
By ilnewsome on 4/9/2010 9:41:04 PM , Rating: 2
I'd love to see SONY take over PALM's handsets and production. Add in that 'make.believe' spirit to the firmware and hardware and go from there. SONY is one of those take the next jump forward companies, and we might loose money and look bad, but at least we were first and "innovative" if it's successful. SONY Erricson phones suck, and run as a completely different branch.


RE: What I would do...
By icanhascpu on 3/22/2010 2:01:05 PM , Rating: 2
"The interface was much like the iPhone, but it lacked the iPhone's extensive app library and used slower interpreted code for apps (as opposed to native code)."

More RAM is good but no one wants a sluggish phone after you have 2 things going.


RE: What I would do...
By Tony Swash on 3/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: What I would do...
By IsDanReally on 3/22/2010 2:08:01 PM , Rating: 5
No it doesn't. But cute that you think your phone has more ram them almost any personal computer.


RE: What I would do...
By gucio69 on 3/22/2010 2:25:03 PM , Rating: 3
They are talking about SYSTEM memory, or the memory that holds programs or data that is currently in use. You are talking about STORAGE memory, akin to a hard drive in a computer.


RE: What I would do...
By Camikazi on 3/22/2010 3:04:16 PM , Rating: 2
You should learn the difference between RAM and Storage, they are not the same, here's a hint, that 32GB is NOT RAM.


RE: What I would do...
By Ristogod on 3/22/2010 3:32:38 PM , Rating: 5
Typical Apple User. Doesn't even understand basic technology terms and how they apply to their device.


RE: What I would do...
By Tony Swash on 3/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: What I would do...
By spookynutz on 3/22/2010 4:26:18 PM , Rating: 5
You should have quit while you were only behind a little.


RE: What I would do...
By Motoman on 3/22/2010 6:36:26 PM , Rating: 2
No kidding. You've just firmly solidified your position as one of the millions of asshats in this world who think they understand technology...but truly have no clue.

Much better to have kept your mouth shut.


RE: What I would do...
By Tony Swash on 3/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: What I would do...
By Motoman on 3/22/2010 8:51:37 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
And the reason they don't bother to market to people like that is because such people are a tiny, tiny percentage of the market.


...Apple has 4% of the personal computer market. Just thought I'd point that out.

You're a more comprehensible Macolyte than most, I'll give you that. But a Macolyte just the same.


RE: What I would do...
By chick0n on 3/23/10, Rating: -1
RE: What I would do...
By themaster08 on 3/23/2010 5:23:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Statements like this are a perfect example of why so many people who post here get so het up about so much trivia, trivia that 90% of the population not only don't care about but don't want to know about. The reason that Apple products sell so well, why their product growth rate is so high, is precisely because they don't market to people like those quoted above.

Exactly, so why come to a tech site of which mostly consists of tech literate people that are not in Apple's demographic, and expect everybody to understand your opinion?


RE: What I would do...
By Bioniccrackmonk on 3/23/2010 8:54:30 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Exactly, so why come to a tech site of which mostly consists of tech literate people that are not in Apple's demographic, and expect everybody to understand your opinion?


Answer: Sheeple


RE: What I would do...
By Manch on 3/23/2010 12:12:32 AM , Rating: 2
Ha! Every time some ass-hat starts digging his hole deeper the song "The Gambler" pops into my head.

Some people just dont learn.


RE: What I would do...
By Tony Swash on 3/23/10, Rating: -1
RE: What I would do...
By retrospooty on 3/23/10, Rating: 0
RE: What I would do...
By Tony Swash on 3/23/10, Rating: -1
RE: What I would do...
By clovell on 3/23/2010 11:53:57 AM , Rating: 5
I think you got under their skin most when you confused storage and RAM, and then refused to say something along the lines, 'Damn, I knew I shouldn't have posted before I finished that first cup of coffee.'

Being an Apple fan probably didn't help you, either.


RE: What I would do...
By Tony Swash on 3/23/10, Rating: 0
RE: What I would do...
By Laereom on 3/28/2010 12:15:31 PM , Rating: 2
I imagine most of them don't have anything against Apple, per se...one must admit that they make a lot of solid, market-changing products. I don't enjoy most of them personally since I like having more control over my gadgets than most, but I can understand others who do.

However, Apple fanboys...

Well, let me put it this way:
Thrice in my life have I met people who confused long term storage with RAM. One was my grandmother. The other two were Apple fanboys claiming their system had 260GB of RAM and cost only $800.


RE: What I would do...
By R3T4rd on 3/23/2010 8:57:56 AM , Rating: 2
If you really don't know, of all the Hacker Contest Held Legally, there is one that is held every year. MAC's were the very first to fall, then Windows, then other Linux flavors. So what does that tell you?

Your sense of security is through obscurity. The only reason why MAC's are does not get Maleware/Viruses/Trojans/Worms its because of the exact reason you stated - MACS have a very little demographic of users and owners (4%-7% of all PC's in the world).

Why would a hacker trying to get money, hack MACs (4% of PCs) when they can hack Windows based PCs (90%+ of PCs). Also your MAC if its MSRP was $1200, have the same identical PC components inside as a $400 Windows PC. There IS absolutely no difference besides the shiny outside and the MAC Operating System.

All these things have been stated over, and over, and over, soooo much its like a broken record. Yet, we still keep getting MAC users like urself who proves the point we have been reciting all along that MAC users are like sheeps herded by Apple/Steve Job's magic leash. There is so much more that can be said and compared between Windows PC's and Mac PC's that if I go on, I'll regergitate what has already been said by people on here soo much, we'd fill up 10,000 webster dictionarys.

And no, we are not adolescent males strutting and running our Windows PC hormones. We have yrs and yrs of IT experience and have seen all there is to see.


RE: What I would do...
By Tony Swash on 3/23/10, Rating: -1
RE: What I would do...
By Gio6518 on 3/23/2010 2:19:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Meanwhile in the real world (where I prefer to live) there are no viruses or propagating malware for Macs while every day tens of thousands of Windows PCs get infected.


seriously your incredible dumb and believe all that apple BS, or your just having a good time messing with peoples heads

there are thousands of viruses and other malware out there for macs, granted as not as much for pc's, but thats the way it is due to popularity of the pc compared to mac.

http://antivirus.about.com/od/macintoshresource/Ma...

http://ftp.cerias.purdue.edu/pub/tools/mac/mac-vir...

and theres many more


RE: What I would do...
By Tony Swash on 3/23/2010 3:45:53 PM , Rating: 1
One of the links you point to is to a 20 year old document. It describes viruses for the old (ie pre-MacOSX) Mac system software. This is like claiming that Windows 7 is vulnerable because of an exploit in Windows version 3.1

The second link is to a search result. Most of the links seems to consist of "research" from security companies saying that Mac users should buy their products. I guess if you ask a car dealer if its time to trade in your old car for a new one the answer would yes but it would prove nothing about the state of your old car.

There are no examples of self replicating viruses existing and spreading in the wild for MacOsX. No malware that spreads itself from one Mac to another. Nothing you can catch on your mac from an email or attachment or download that you can spread to another mac. None.

I did see references a few months back to a pirated copy of iWorks (the Apple productivity suite for macs) which was posted on the web and which apparently contained a Trojan. The Trojan appeared to be harmless and easily removed. There is no data as to how many Macs got infected because nobody wants to admit to using pirated software. It could have been lots or it could be none. Nobody knows but the story about it died quickly so probably very few people were affected. Even if someone's mac was infected by this single example of a Trojan for macs it wouldn't spread to other macs - because there are no self replicating viruses for macs - none.


RE: What I would do...
By Manch on 3/23/2010 6:30:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Where does all your negative emotional energy come from and is it healthily?


From Apple Sheeple like yourself posting BS nonsense, and it's only unhealthy if I don't call you an Ass-Hat, Ass-Hat.

Don't act surprised that you got lit up for posting incorrect info on a tech website and then defend yourself with Apple is the greatest, my Windows PC never works BS. We've all heard that line millions of times.

Now seriously, do you and all the other sheeple buy your Windows based PC from the same damn mythical place. Every Single one of you seems to have more problems with your windows PC's than anybody else I've run into.


RE: What I would do...
By Tony Swash on 3/23/2010 6:49:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
From Apple Sheeple like yourself posting BS nonsense, and it's only unhealthy if I don't call you an Ass-Hat, Ass-Hat.


What are you so angry about - who hurt you and why are you so afraid and hostile? Its seems such an inappropriate and over the top reaction, what lurks beneath?


RE: What I would do...
By Manch on 3/23/2010 7:14:40 PM , Rating: 2
Really? I said you were an Ass-hat. Hardly over the top.

All Im sayin is like everyone else on here, we know that you aren't
seriously offended. Everyone here is tired of the same old bull
sh1t and they are going to jump all over you every time you post.
Have you ever been on a forum that doesn't. If so go back to it,
and if you do not want to do that, then you should pay attention
to what the f*ck you're saying and of course remember "the Gambler"


RE: What I would do...
By snakeInTheGrass on 3/23/2010 10:12:17 PM , Rating: 2
It really is just ridiculous to immediately reply like that to people you don't even know - you just look like a total assh0le yourself.

Anyway, plenty of people really don't care about how much RAM their phone has, it's just supposed to work. The same is true of computers, which I think is what Tony's point was. Palm and everyone else has an uphill climb thanks to the high bar the iPhone user experience has set and the success of the App Store. The recent success of the Mac (if you don't haven't looked into the technical side or user experience side, fine, then just call it pure marketing success for all I care) has similarly forced Microsoft to step up its game and actually try to compete a bit. That should be good for everyone, not a reason for name calling.


RE: What I would do...
By tastyratz on 3/22/2010 4:41:22 PM , Rating: 2
If you call an extensively second rate app catalog without exclusive niche products a pleasant experience I would hate to see your sex life.
There is nothing special about a mac that says "I don't need to think about how much hard drive space I have" or "I don't have to think about how fast my computer is" that mentality generates users that when asked how much data they have they reply by holding 2 fingers up in a pinching pose and saying "this much".
Smartphones are advancin so rapidly and their usage becoming so increasingly complex that they need to be viewed now akin to how you view a computer purchase - by spec.

The statement is true because the apple appeals mostly to the most nontechnical usercrowd - the people who generally don't get it. Why can someone own a car and understand horsepower/gas mileage/safety ratings/etc... but not comprehend the most basic fundamentals to the inner workings of a computer (whether mac OR apple based)?

In today's society there is no excuse. I have been using them just as long, and things like "I'm too old" really boils down more to "I'm too arrogant or just set in my ways to bother". Training videos/dvds/courses/personell/etc. is and has been easily accessible to anyone for many years. I expect people on the road to have a valid drivers license, and I also now expect members of the workforce to have BASIC fundamental computer knowledge.


RE: What I would do...
By JediJeb on 3/23/2010 3:29:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
. I expect people on the road to have a valid drivers license, and I also now expect members of the workforce to have BASIC fundamental computer knowledge.


Depends on where you work. I work in a laboratory and still several here know very little about computers. They don't use them at home so never try to learn more than how to turn it on and punch in the numbers that need to be entered for what they do. Maybe check email and that's about it.

Computers really aren't the be all end all to life that many seem to think they are. Believe it or not, life can be lived without a computer still.


RE: What I would do...
By tastyratz on 3/23/2010 9:04:35 PM , Rating: 2
disagree, Life can be lived without a computer in modern society just as you can live without a car outside of a dense city. Sure you can do it, but the concept has become asinine and archaic, just as the ways are of those who adopt the philosophy of ignoring the "numbers box".


RE: What I would do...
By JediJeb on 3/25/2010 12:19:49 PM , Rating: 2
I would say though that world wide the percentage of people that own computers is not that high. Even in the US there is a good percentage of homes that do not have a computer or internet connection. Some can't afford it, some just don't want it.


RE: What I would do...
By R3T4rd on 3/23/2010 4:57:57 AM , Rating: 1
ROFL!!!
ROFL!!!!!!

WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!! I laughed soooooo hard I just peed my pants!!!! eww?

This just proves how clueless most Apple users are.


RE: What I would do...
By themaster08 on 3/23/2010 5:43:47 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Today was a good example. I spent the day hopping between a MacPro that hasn't faltered or misbehaved in 18 months of continuous use (the only restarts have been for system upgrades) and a recently purchased and high end PC running Windows 7 which for some reason has started not booting every so often. So I sigh and spend wasted hours trying to identify the problem. Technically challenging but what a waste of time. I find myself checking for viruses, running tweaking and diagnostic software pretty often on the PC side - whereas my macs just sit there purring away doing their stuff.

If you're "tech literate" you should at least learn good practices on how to avoid malware in the first place. If you knew what you were doing then you wouldn't have any issues. 90% of it is common sense.

You don't have to tinker a PC. It is perfectly functional out the box. People like myself do so because it's a hobby. Not because it's a necessity. Some of us have owned PC's that are 10+ years old, that are also still purring away without the need of any tinkering whatsoever. So what?

That's the problem you see. As you say, the Mac takes you away from all of that, but at the same time users forget the real dangers that are out there, which could/will one day affect them. Then what?

That's a problem with anyone using the internet, not just Mac users. It can be a very dangerous place. People think they can just jump in the deep end and use the internet without any knowledge of good practice. Everyone knows that dangers exist amongst the internet, but if people aren't willing to educate themselves of these dangers, what can you do?


RE: What I would do...
By R3T4rd on 3/23/2010 4:47:53 AM , Rating: 1
....

ROFL!!!!!!

That was a good laugh. Man I haven't laughed like this for a long time.


RE: What I would do...
By MrX8503 on 3/25/2010 9:40:59 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Do you mean the iPhone 3GS? If so my iPhone 3GS has 32 gigabytes of RAM and the minimum configuration is 16 Gigabytes.


*Facepalm*


RE: What I would do...
By clovell on 3/22/2010 11:23:52 AM , Rating: 2
I like 1 & 3 - #4 is being done nwo that devs are on board. I'm actually a registered Palm webOS dev, myself - more as a hobby. The platform has really opened up, and is showing a lot of promise.

For #2, I think it's powerful enough right now, but if marketing can use it as a bullet-point over the competition and its cost-effective, go for it.


RE: What I would do...
By Diesel Donkey on 3/22/2010 12:07:12 PM , Rating: 2
It does have the horsepower--the exact same horsepower the iPhone 3GS has. However, with the exception of games run through the plug-in that allows for native code, everything is running from interpreted code and without the assistance of the very capable GPU.

I own a Pre Plus, and I actually like it quite a lot. It can be sluggish at times for sure, but the UI more than makes up for that. Once a program is running it's pretty snappy. I'm running 8 right now as I type this, and I can run many more with no slow-down. I enjoy using the phone so much in fact that I usually turn it on rather than my E6400 4GB RAM 24" monitor desktop. Those who are brainwashed by the Droid/iPhone commercials or think they an app catalog with gazillions of entries don't know what they're missing!


RE: What I would do...
By omnicronx on 3/22/2010 1:29:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
From what I have heard, the biggest downfall of the Pre/Pixi is the hardware. It doesn't have the horse power.
Well close your ears then, because whoever you 'heard' this from is a moron.

The Palm Pre has almost identical hardware to the 3GS, same processor, same GPU, same amount of ram, same screen resolution... (in fact the pre plus has more ram than the iPhone 3GS)

Its faster than the 3G, thats for sure..

Now the loading time for pre apps is a at least twice as long for many apps, but once you are in, performance is pretty much the same as the 3GS. Then again my guess is that this mainly has to do with the fact that the Pre can multitask and does not seem to leave common apps in memory like the iPhone does.(my guess is that is it to conserve memory)


RE: What I would do...
By Jeffk464 on 3/22/2010 8:16:36 PM , Rating: 2
"What I would do...

1) Open it up. Give webOS to any OEM who wants it. Let it compete along side WMo7 and Android."

Unfortunately for palm I think the default open smart phone OS is going to be android. Its getting great reviews and has the the deep pockets of Google behind it. I was tempted to get the palm pre on verizon for its wireless access point feature, but didn't want to get stuck with an unsupported product.


Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By Ananke on 3/22/2010 1:45:37 PM , Rating: 1
Web OS is a closed OS, which makes naturally the application business either unattractive for developers, or plain expensive compared to the alternatives. From a marketing point this means low popularity, since the price per device and monthly contract is pretty much equal for all career devices. The only way to distinguish price-wise at end-user is by cost of the applications, which Palm inherently have expensive. Conclusion, Palm was doomed from the beginning....

Btw. the same applies to Win 7 mobile OS and to some extent RIM Blackberry...it is just a matter of time, but marketing-wise these are not competitive either.




RE: Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By omnicronx on 3/22/2010 2:05:07 PM , Rating: 4
Yep, closed OS's with closed App stores are the worst idea ever!

I can't think of a platform that has ever succeeded doing as such..

Oh wait.. *points to iPhone*

Really, where do you people come up with this stuff? Did common sense skip a generation or are you really that self involved that you think you can pass on your personal feelings as fact..

Palm came in a little too late, had a terrible SDK to begin with, and for all intents and purposes, should have never released their devices in the state their app store was in.

Closed platform or not, when you only have 17 apps available at launch and little for months after that point, you are not going to be successful. As a result they failed to gain momentum, and as such no developer support. To this day there are only around 1200 apps on the appstore. That being said, things are starting to ramp up, preware allows developers to do pretty much anything they want (its basically an open source market) and WebOS is getting faster and faster.


RE: Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By CyborgTMT on 3/22/2010 2:43:18 PM , Rating: 2
I'd like to point out that there are thousands of homebrew apps you can easily load onto the Pre. Also a large portion of the apps you find in Palm's store are free.


RE: Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By omnicronx on 3/22/2010 3:19:32 PM , Rating: 4
Yep, thats preware. Its also worth noting at unlike the iPhone, you can install it without cracking your phone.


RE: Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By Ananke on 3/22/2010 3:59:29 PM , Rating: 1
I work for marketing. My point is that 99% of users, who btw are not technically-savvy, don't have any idea of homebrew applications. That's the fundamental reason why a certain gadget cannot sell. Cheap = sell, a little bit expensive = fail. Palm is a little bit more expensive.

Similarly RIM gained moment because of non-existing competition in the business market. They were lucky, but the business market has changed for the last two years. Companies have no choice, but to trim expenses, and RIM phones overall cost more. Simple fact. It is my opinion they also cannot stand a chance against the open platforms coming. It is just a matter of time.


RE: Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By CyborgTMT on 3/22/2010 9:22:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My point is that 99% of users, who btw are not technically-savvy, don't have any idea of homebrew applications.


I'll argue that point. Of all the Pre owners I know, every one of them knows about homebrew apps. I was told about them when I bought my phone by the Sprint rep.

And what are you doing with a smartphone anyway if you aren't a bit 'tech-savvy' to begin with?


By snakeInTheGrass on 3/23/2010 10:32:05 PM , Rating: 2
Was that 99% of Pre users or 99% of smartphone users in general?

I'd imagine you could be non tech-savvy and just using a smartphone for email, web access, and an easy way to get entertainment or other functions - while hopefully avoiding driver issues, virus scans, and other 'real computer' crap.

I always love the idea of 'you can just fix the kernel yourself!' as a selling point for Linux, and likewise home-brew is a general positive point - for tech folks. However, my mom who is "running the 'e' or 'running Google'" would surely be thrilled to be able to modify her machine's kernel - and home-brew apps would probably be equally appealing for her phone.


RE: Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By Patrick Canney on 3/22/2010 9:48:10 PM , Rating: 2
99% is a huge generalization, but you do make a good point.

Homebrew will never really make a product sell either, if it's not pushed by the creator, it's not general knowledge.

I would say android is the greatest success of linux though, such a huge penetration of the smartphone market, and it works like magic. I think MS have really been paying attention with the development of win7.

I only see RIM's days numbered, but then there is always that group of people who want one just because it's a Blackberry. I haven't used a BB since the pearl.

MS should open up it's Live arcade service though to support more devices like the andriod. Hardware variation obviously a big factor there though.

If it wasn't for the might of Google flexing it's muscle and pouring dev $$ into it and and structuring it right, open software wouldn't be doing so great in the consumer market right now. Which as far as i am aware, every other phone OS is closed. There's sony and everything, but i thikn the PS3 is about as great as they have done.

I'm considering the HTC Desire, or Bravo as we call it in the U.K. If only it was embodied in the same case as the Legend :(

That and maybe a new for crimbo PC running openSuse, with win 7, and maybe OSX if i can be assed.


RE: Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By oab on 3/22/2010 10:57:18 PM , Rating: 2
And Microsoft should port Halo to the PS3 as well! Think of how many units they would sell!


RE: Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By Patrick Canney on 3/22/2010 11:31:40 PM , Rating: 2
Bungie probably could if they wanted to as long as they aren't bound to Microsoft contract which I'm sure they are ;)

Microsoft were the first to bring us a Marketplace for your console which was tied to Live. Part of that is the Live arcade. It's not completely out of the realm of possibility that the future of gaming will be internet delivery from service providers.

Such as Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo. Who knows.

The publishers are also starting to use more and more "always on" games connected to the internet. Steam has gone Mac.

The only thing is that you wouldn't have to re-buy everything for a new/different system. Shareholders want you to buy everything ten times over anyway for all your devices though.

"content delivery" is where the money is at.

Steam. PSN. iTunes. Live. Guitar Hero. etcetera.


RE: Web OS is closed OS = doomed
By clovell on 3/23/2010 11:55:27 AM , Rating: 2
Nah, Bungie wouldn't do it; Gearbox would. And they'd f*ck it up, too - again.


By Lazarus Dark on 3/23/2010 9:02:32 PM , Rating: 2
I'm with you somewhat.
Before Android, I just NEVER considered a smartphone. Even once the networks data speeds reached usable levels and a few phones appeared with enough power to actually do something, I still didn't care.

But with Android, I am excited about getting a smartphone for the first time. It's open source and linux based, and I know the linux guys will put out a million free apps to do whatever you want, plus it will be stable and functional. My ATT contract is up in a month... Hello Verizon... Hello Droid...


ugly
By Murloc on 3/22/2010 11:31:53 AM , Rating: 2
why would someone buy a smartphone with that shape?
it's too fatty and curvy.




RE: ugly
By rtrski on 3/22/2010 11:46:27 AM , Rating: 2
Actually it slips into a front pocket just fine, and doesn't make me look like I've got a paperback shoved down my jeans when I sit down.

The form-factor wasn't the problem. The OS wasn't the problem. Timing (too long after iPhone, too coincident with Android development), some early HW quality issues, and David vs. Goliath inequalities (competing with Apple and Google, releasing with Sprint exclusivity for too long) were the problem.

I own a Pre, and have a Sprint plan, and am likely to keep both. Quite better satisfied with Sprint's plan pricing than I was with the big V. But that said, not "married" to my phone. Like the Pre, and if Palm sticks around and has something nice when I'm ready for replacement I'll consider it. But right now the writing sure appears to be on the wall. Will likely end up going Android...


RE: ugly
By rudy on 3/22/2010 9:41:53 PM , Rating: 3
The real key here was sprint. It is too small of a network and sprints users are not kids and clueless customers. They are mostly people who are old nextel business clients and people who look for a good deal. This is not the kind of people you make a hot fad market out of. At the time the released sprint was bleeding customers as well. The thing is sprint probably offered palm the best payout and palm fell for it and locked them self into a smaller network which few people wanted to move to. They should have skipped the exclusive deals and just launched the thing on all CDMA networks or made the exclusive deals short. It took them way to long to move to verizon.

Remember every 5 - 10 years 1 and only 1 product is really hot that was the iPhone this time, before it was the razr so people need to move back to core business sense to sell now not hope for marketing to make a product a must have device. It seems everyone is forgetting this.


RE: ugly
By Diesel Donkey on 3/22/2010 11:55:12 AM , Rating: 2
Actually it's quite thin and overall very small. The size and shape are two of the main reasons I like my Pre Plus. It's very comfortable both in the hand and in the pocket. I don't want a stripped down netbook brick with sharp lines bulging in and tearing through the bottom of my pocket (hi Droid). Whatever happened to the desire to have a smaller phone? Soon my original cell phone with it's laptop-sized case and external antenna will be back in style!


RE: ugly
By JediJeb on 3/23/2010 3:43:14 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone talks about it fitting into a front pocket easily, but what do things like keys and change do to the screen? I still carry my RAZR in my shirt pocket because I am afraid things like that might tear it up, I can't imagine an iPhone or one of these would last a week for me.


RE: ugly
By Diesel Donkey on 3/26/2010 12:50:16 AM , Rating: 2
My phone goes in my left pocket, and my wallet and keys go in my right pocket. Problem solved!


iPhone Killer
By hiscross on 3/22/2010 12:06:11 PM , Rating: 2
Up next Andriod followed by Win Mobile 7. Well, you now have free healthcare almost. Nice bit of work I'd say.




RE: iPhone Killer
By Jeffk464 on 3/22/2010 8:28:47 PM , Rating: 3
I already had free health care, this new one is just going to cost me more in taxes. :(


RE: iPhone Killer
By mcnabney on 3/22/2010 9:24:36 PM , Rating: 2
I love people that bring up completely unrelated things that they really don't know the first thing about.


Business Plan?
By krotchy on 3/22/2010 10:11:38 AM , Rating: 1
It seems there are two open platforms for smart phones, Windows Mobile 7 and Android, an excessively popular closed platform, iPhone OS (which came with a squad of Apple zealots to spur its instant success) and then there is WebOS which abandoned the old Palm OS users and never had the market share to become a 2nd closed platform. Palm needs to switch to an open platform to stay alive and give up on trying to be the 2nd closed platform.

I never particularly liked my Palm PDA because it was difficult finding apps for it and the ones I found never really did anything useful. It seems WebOS has follow the same path as past Palm products and with things like the AppStore around, competing with a closed platform and very few apps just won't cut it.

Palm Pre with Android/WinMo7 anyone?




RE: Business Plan?
By dani31 on 3/22/2010 10:44:18 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
It seems there are two open platforms for smart phones, Windows Mobile 7 and Android, an excessively popular closed platform, iPhone OS


In addition to new Androids, iPhone OS 4.0 and Windows Phone 7 Series, WebOS will also need to face Symbian ^3, also due by year-end.

P.S. Windows Phone 7 Series will be a closed platform just like the iPhone OS. Symbian on the other hand is open, like Android.


RE: Business Plan?
By oab on 3/22/2010 11:05:02 PM , Rating: 2
You do know that WPOS7 (they really should have looked at that acronym before they decided on it) is not an open platform right? It isn't free to phone manufacturers, they need to license it from MS.


By piroroadkill on 3/22/2010 10:11:42 AM , Rating: 3
Sure, why not?




By omnicronx on 3/22/2010 2:15:00 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly, seems like people are offloading these tings like no tomorrow. Picked one up recently for 75 bucks off contract from someone switching to the iPhone ;)

I probably won't keep the thing, but hopefully it can tie me over until WM7 this fall..


So, Palm death pool time?
By wolrah on 3/22/2010 10:10:05 AM , Rating: 2
I'll put my bet on Palm as we know them today ceasing to exist before the year's out. It's too bad, as I was a huge fan in the Palm III and m100 days, even up to a m505 that gave me all kinds of trouble but was still great when it worked. OS 5 just never caught on and I don't think OS 6 ever shipped, so Palm was pretty much "that WinMo vendor who also has an even less interesting platform."

WebOS was promising, but it's apparently too little too late...




RE: So, Palm death pool time?
By Sulphademus on 3/22/2010 12:45:30 PM , Rating: 2
The article states that Palm saw the writing on the wall in 2008. By 2008? Way too late to avoid hitting that iceberg!

I had a Palm III that I used extensively through college and it was a great device but I knew back in 2002 that the PDA and the mobile phone should/would merge. It was only the hardware keeping it back.

Palm should have had the SmartPhone wrapped up and in its back pocket long before the iPhone was even a rumor.


production != sales
By CZroe on 3/22/2010 12:14:51 PM , Rating: 2
"Palm reportedly has 1.5 million unsold Palm Pre and Pixi units. It has halted sales, a sign of the company's deep problems."

Production != sales.

IIRC, Nintendo did this with the Gamecube in 2003 and everyone reported on it as "the death of the GCN." Then they ran out of stock everywhere for a sustained time until the new model without the "Digital" port appeared. They just had to sell out of their over-produced stock and misinterpreted demand. Heck, the GCN and XBOX were so close that I'd bet the event could have contributed to the XBOX edging out GCN sales in the last gaming generation.




RE: production != sales
By Ichinisan on 5/2/2010 7:44:08 PM , Rating: 2
"It has halted sales..."

The caption under the photo still isn't fixed.


Shoulda known it'd be you, Mick
By clovell on 3/22/2010 11:18:42 AM , Rating: 1
We all know that Palm's sales have been underwhelming - the numbers have been out there for awhile. Take that with the big misses on the forecasts, and it's really no surprise that production was cut.

In fact, it's a smart move. What - would you have rather they continued making phones they couldn't sell?

Verizon was supposed to give Palm's webOS line some new life, and the ads have been encouraging. What isn't, though - is the fact that it's going up against the Droids on some pretty sweet deals.

Palm lost whatever head-start it had back in the summer with the most lackluster ad campaign in recent memory. Now the 'newness' of its webOS products has been lost, and it's being outflanked by its competitors. Palm really had a shot here, and the phones are fantastic, but they have some ground to make up, and I'm not sure how they're gonna do it.




RE: Shoulda known it'd be you, Mick
By epobirs on 3/23/2010 4:42:28 AM , Rating: 2
Ugh, those ads! I thought of that actress as 'Creepy Girl' in homage to the classic Catalina Caper episode of MST3K.


Cisco should buy them
By Lord 666 on 3/22/2010 10:07:20 AM , Rating: 2
Actually said this to John (Cisco CFO) in 2005 and Warrior last summer. Her response was interesting; first said their mobile strategy was on software for smart phones, but then said it was a possibility.

While Motorola would be a better fit (Warrior ex-cto, moto more than cell phones), Palm can be had at fire sale prices with decent technology.




By RandomUsername3463 on 3/22/2010 11:14:06 AM , Rating: 2
Palm practically created the PDA and was pretty much the leading smart phone vendor 10 years ago, and then they stopped innovating. What the heck happened? Did their management cut out their R&D or engineering budgets??

They released nothing but minor revisions in their core market (pda phones) for 4.5 years (Nov 2004-June 2009)!!

They should open source webOS for the good of the market :) and then just quietly go out of business.




This is bad news
By tviceman on 3/22/2010 1:01:52 PM , Rating: 2
WebOS is a great platform. I've never been happier with a phone than I am with my Pre. I hope a company smart enough to see the potential can step and save Palm.




That sucks
By Chadder007 on 3/22/2010 1:10:15 PM , Rating: 2
That sucks, I actually like the WEBOS better than Android. I would have bought a Palm Pre if it had come out on Verizon first, but I had to get something else at the time.




By johnsonx on 3/22/2010 2:33:57 PM , Rating: 2
I think the long Sprint exclusive deal really hurt Palm here. The timing was just really bad. While the Pre and later the Pixi languished on the #3 network, the competitors on the #1 and #2 networks quickly evolved. The iPhone 3GS came out, as did Droid. Palm is finally available on Verizon, and will hit AT&T soon... but it's too late now.

I was VERY interested in the Palm Pre when it came out, but I am a LONG time happy Verizon wireless customer with no desire to change (I've actually had a Verizon Wireless account since the old PacTel Cellular days).

Now that the Pre has finally hit Verizon I'm not all that interested any longer, as I see the writing on the wall. I do still need a new phone to replace my aged Treo 700p, but I'm thinking maybe Droid, maybe iPhone if it ever comes to Verizon, maybe even wait for Windows Phone 7 devices.

The Pre was a winner when it launched, but not any more. How many more Pre's would Palm have sold if they'd launched on more networks? 100,000? 1,000,000? More?




By johnr81 on 3/22/2010 3:01:10 PM , Rating: 2
Palm definitely hasn't done as well as I hoped, but this doesn't have to mean the end. I know a previous article showed palm market share going down, but it didn't break it down by os. I'd guess palmos declined and webos inclined, albeit slower.

This article dismisses the big good news for palm, AT&T is going to start carrying them. Adding support for the largest carrier could easily be the move that gets them out of the red. When the Pre first came out one of the biggest complaints was carrier... One more hurdle passed.




By sapiens74 on 3/22/2010 4:30:19 PM , Rating: 2
Competing with any one of the above is a monumental task, but all four is too much for any company

With Windows 7 Mobile coming, things will probably get worse for Palm




Will Palm be bought out?
By iluvdeal on 3/22/2010 5:49:11 PM , Rating: 2
It's very unlikely we'll see a miracle increase in demand for the Palm Pre or Pixi so IMO Palm's only hope at surviving is if they are acquired by another company. Can anyone see this happening? If I'm a phone manufacturer, I could just license Android or Windows Mobile 7 and use that on my phone rather than deal with the development costs of maintaining your own OS and app library. However, owning your own closed end OS like Apple and Blackberry does make your product more unique. My guess is once Palm's value becomes low enough, some company will swoop in to buy them for their IP, however Palm and WebOS as we know it are dead. It's a sad end to one of the pioneers in the hand held market.




Shame
By n00bxqb on 3/22/2010 10:18:46 PM , Rating: 2
I have the Palm Pre and the wife has an iPhone and I have to say that the Pre is just better in nearly every regard, except the number of apps available (even then, most of the good stuff is on the Pre). Faster, multitasking, better browser, physical keyboard, MUCH better camera, MUCH nicer screen, drag & drop or sync using iTunes (your choice).

My friend just got the Nexus One last week and it's a pretty sweet phone. We were comparing features and they basically all have the same except in Google Maps, the absolutely gorgeous AMOLED screen (the Pre's screen is still way better than the iPhone's), and better quality chassis. I still like WebOS better than Android, though.

It's a shame that Palm is in such dire straits given that they do really have an excellent product on their hands in WebOS.




By sxr7171 on 3/22/2010 10:25:42 PM , Rating: 2
It's a great phone, but launched on a 3rd rate network. I've been waiting for it on a GSM network for a while but they had to sign an exclusivity contract with a carrier that sucks.

Just this past week they decided to sell LOCKED Pre devices for $439 locked to Telcel of all carriers. Well it sounds like they really don't want to sell them. Too bad, keep playing to the tune of these carriers with your locked crap and pay the piper with consumers. I'm ready to plunk down $439 but not locked.




False?
By adiposity on 3/23/2010 1:03:47 PM , Rating: 2
Apparently Palm is denying the truth of this story:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/23/palm-moving-to-...

Read to the bottom.




Bad phone designs.
By Gunbuster on 3/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: Bad phone designs.
By Lord 666 on 3/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: Bad phone designs.
By clovell on 3/22/2010 11:19:45 AM , Rating: 2
Guess you don't watch 24.


RE: Bad phone designs.
By dubldwn on 3/22/2010 1:01:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Hey lets cut out 50% of our demographic!

quote:
Overall, the mix of male and female users is relatively similar among iPhone, Android, and Blackberry owners. However, ownership among the three smartphone devices is still dominated by men, who account for 88% of iPhone users, 84% of Android users, and 82% of Blackberry users.

http://www.marketingprofs.com/charts/2010/3475/and...

So, it seems to be even worse than that. I dunno. Maybe Palm thought they could grab the untapped female smartphone buyer market?


RE: Bad phone designs.
By dubldwn on 3/22/2010 1:31:14 PM , Rating: 2
I would like to withdrawal this post. First, some of the claims in the link provided seem rather dubious. Also, apparently, there isn’t a consensus on whether or not Palm was purposely marketing the Pre/Pixi towards women, which I just assumed.

My apologies.


RE: Bad phone designs.
By Gunbuster on 3/22/2010 3:12:44 PM , Rating: 2
even if it was unintentional they seem to have made a serious design and marketing mis-step.

Look at the Droid. I have no doubt that its ultra masculine advertising campaign is serving them very well.


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