backtop


Print 28 comment(s) - last by robinthakur.. on Jul 27 at 7:55 AM

We would have gotten away with blocking out syncing if it wasn't for those meddling OS updates!

Early last week Apple rolled out iTunes 8.2.1, a sneaky little update with a hidden agenda -- to kill the Palm Pre's syncing with Apple's iTunes software.  As the owner of the majority of the MP3 player market, Apple's iPods can only officially sync with iTunes.  This means that most users, for better or worse, use iTunes and have all their music preloaded into it.  Thus it was an attractive feature for the Pre automatically sync with iTunes, with no messy importing or folder-searching necessary.

Apple managed to block that feature for a bit, but not for long.  Palm has now released webOS 1.1.0, an update to the Palm Pre's operating system.  The update does many nice things; among them it unblocks iTunes and restores syncing.  Palm innocently describes the one-up stating that the update "resolves an issue preventing media sync from working with latest version of iTunes (8.2.1)."

Other improvements include proper deletion of emails via push, smoother list scrolling, new drop-down animations, corrected folders within IMAP Gmail accounts, and faster application load times.  The other big improvements are the addition of emoticons and Microsoft Exchange.  Palm also has released its 31st application for the phone -- NFL Mobile Live for watching games and audio from the device.

It seems a natural question to ask how long it will take before Apple releases iTunes 8.2.2 and tries to lock out the Pre once more.  However, as the latest update goes to show for all the embarrassment that its anticompetitive tactics bring, locking the Pre out of iTunes may be a losing battle.



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Lawsuit time
By Lonyo on 7/24/2009 11:30:10 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
It seems a natural question to ask how long it will take before Apple releases iTunes 8.2.2 and tries to lock out the Pre once more.


More like "How long it will take before Apple file a lawsuit against Palm".

Doesn't matter if there is no real legitimate reason for it, I'm sure they will file soon enough.




RE: Lawsuit time
By gyranthir on 7/24/2009 11:35:09 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know if they will or not.

Because if they keep trying to block it out, Palm could push back and counter sue for anti-trust, anti-competitive activities.


RE: Lawsuit time
By tayhimself on 7/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Lawsuit time
By MozeeToby on 7/24/2009 12:09:26 PM , Rating: 5
I don't know about you, but if I were a phone developer and I had two choices:

1) Write an app that parses an XML library and sends that information to my phone and requires the user to install the app on their PC in order to work.

2) Change the product ID that the phone looks like an iPod, saving me time and effort and more importantly removing the requirement for the user to install additional software.

Personally, I would choose #2. It certainly isn't illegal to change the product ID broad casted over USB. You might be able to argue that it is unethical, but I would counter that with the argument that it is more unethical for Apple to lock competing products out if that functionality. This is exactly the kind of behavior that Microsoft got in trouble for a good decade ago, having features that only MS products could access.


RE: Lawsuit time
By TomZ on 7/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: Lawsuit time
By rudolphna on 7/25/2009 8:30:13 AM , Rating: 3
If you ask me, 90% of the population is so stupid when it comes to computers asking them to install a program to use their phone would either...

A. Stump them completely

B. Cause them to completely screw up their computer.

C. Make them so frustrated they vow to never buy that companies products again

D. An extention, tell all his/her friends/family how awful the product is and how annoying it is to lose, thus costing said company revenue.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason I shouldn't be able to sync my Samsung Eternity cell phone with itunes or something. Everything would be much easier. Instead of having burn all my songs I want to CD with itunes, and then re-ripping them with Windows Media Player as MP3. Since it can't play protected AAC files. Oh while I'm thinking about it- Apple should allow all users to (for free) convert all their old purchased songs that still have DRM crap on them to no-DRM versions.


RE: Lawsuit time
By rudolphna on 7/25/2009 8:30:18 AM , Rating: 2
If you ask me, 90% of the population is so stupid when it comes to computers asking them to install a program to use their phone would either...

A. Stump them completely

B. Cause them to completely screw up their computer.

C. Make them so frustrated they vow to never buy that companies products again

D. An extention, tell all his/her friends/family how awful the product is and how annoying it is to lose, thus costing said company revenue.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason I shouldn't be able to sync my Samsung Eternity cell phone with itunes or something. Everything would be much easier. Instead of having burn all my songs I want to CD with itunes, and then re-ripping them with Windows Media Player as MP3. Since it can't play protected AAC files. Oh while I'm thinking about it- Apple should allow all users to (for free) convert all their old purchased songs that still have DRM crap on them to no-DRM versions.


RE: Lawsuit time
By ltcommanderdata on 7/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Lawsuit time
By T2k on 7/24/2009 2:41:19 PM , Rating: 4
So if you weren't too lazy to do even just a basic search on the subject before you post your false claims you'd know that

1. IOUSBDevice# != USB MSC identification

therefore

2. obviously Pal is NOT using Apple's ID which, apparently evident for everybody except you in first place, would have been a suicidal move.

Read on: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/06/palm-p...


RE: Lawsuit time
By ltcommanderdata on 7/24/2009 3:27:31 PM , Rating: 2
http://nanocr.eu/2009/06/04/palm-pre-usb-hack-conf...

quote:
However, it’s only the Mass Storage interface that identifies itself as an iPod. The root USB node (IOUSBDevice) still identifies the device as a Palm Pre (not visible in the image above).


So which spoofing is allowed? Because if I'm reading this properly, Palm is spoofing the USB MSC ID while the root IOUSBDevice is still reading as Palm.


RE: Lawsuit time
By Lonyo on 7/25/2009 2:22:41 AM , Rating: 1
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10294633-1.htm...

quote:
Palm believes that openness and interoperability offer better experiences for users by allowing them the freedom to use the content they own without interference across devices and services, so on behalf of consumers, we have notified the USB Implementers Forum of what we believe is improper use of the Vendor ID number by another member.


Palm have already gone to the USB Implementers Forum about this. If they were the ones messing about with ID numbers, you can be fairly sure they wouldn't be trying to make an issue out of this. They are claiming Apple are being dodgy, which implies they are not going to be in any way at fault, or they are incredibly stupid.


RE: Lawsuit time
By robinthakur on 7/27/2009 7:47:02 AM , Rating: 2
Not really, I think its more unethical of Palm to sell the Pre making a big deal about how it can sync with iTunes when they are using this dodgy exploit to do it, not even using the API. Ultimately with this whole cat and mouse patching game it will make the ability to sync with iTunes without hassle impossible unless you've updated to the latest firmware etc which a lot of non-technical users don't do. i.e. pretty much the functionality of a jailbroken iPhone!

I actually don't think this is the same issue that MS cvame up against in their anti-trust suit. iTunes has never been proposed as a standard, in the same way Windows has it just happens that iPod + iTunes is the most popular mp3 store/music management/mp3 players out there. There is other competition you know, from Amazon et al. Why dont Palm just create their own syncing store/program app liking to Amazon and do things properly rather than hack it to work?


RE: Lawsuit time
By Mojo the Monkey on 7/24/2009 7:14:21 PM , Rating: 4
Shhh, these lawsuits are keeping armies of intellectual property attorneys employed in Silicon Valley. If Apple stopped suing, the high-end housing market in surrounding area would collapse and would plunge the nation into a second housing crisis. Before long, it would be us working all day in the hardware manufacturing plants for $4 a day so we can send cheap devices to the booming upper middle class in China.

JUST LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!!!!


RE: Lawsuit time
By brybir on 7/24/2009 11:37:24 AM , Rating: 5
I still am not sure why Apple's marketing cannot be:

iPhone, guaranteed to work perfectly with iTunes.

Rather than:

iPhone, we are trying really damm hard to make sure its the only phone that easily works with iTunes.

But I guess that is their choice and they do what they can until or when they get told they cant or it no longer makes business sense.

Besides, people are on these 2 year contracts. If I just got a Palm Pre and I am in a 2 year contract I am probably not in the market for an iPhone, therefore if my Pre works well with iTunes perhaps I will be compelled to use at least that product from Apple, rather than none of their products if they make iTunes hard to work with.

Disclaimer: I dont find it hard to move stuff from my iTunes to my non iPhone anyways, but I know a good number of people who just want to plug stuff in and have it work and are often willing to pay extra for that "feature".


RE: Lawsuit time
By clovell on 7/24/2009 11:55:11 AM , Rating: 2
No matter how long it takes for Apple to file the lawsuit, you can bet your ass that that Palm will take even less time to give them the finger and yell 'pwned, bitch!'


Nice
By Murst on 7/24/2009 11:20:54 AM , Rating: 4
If Palm keeps this up with all of these constant updates to the OS ( even if Apple somehow manages to block it out of iTunes ), I'm sure they'll have a great device.

My contract w/ T-mobile runs out in April, and hopefully by then they'll have WebOS devices with carriers other than Sprint. I could care less if I stay w/ T-mobile after April, but I don't really want to switch to Sprint.




RE: Nice
By brybir on 7/24/2009 11:32:09 AM , Rating: 2
I am also looking to grab one of these or similar webOS phone in the coming months.

Where I am from only a few carriers have 3g coverage and Sprint is not one of them (U.S. Cellular is the only "larger one", but needless to say I am not exactly in an urban area). It would be nice to get this phone on U.S. Cellular if possible.

One requirement I have is that I can replace the battery. I am often "out in the field" so to speak and can be away from any source of power for the large part of the day and it is critical that my phone be availible at all times. That is probably the only reason that I did not get an iPhone a year or so ago. But now that I have seen a few friends with the Palm Pre I am totally sold on it.


RE: Nice
By cdwilliams1 on 7/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Nice
By Murst on 7/24/2009 11:46:26 AM , Rating: 3
I was under the impression that it already works with WMP and Amazon...

Apple seems to be the only company trying to lock other users out. I'm sure all of the other music stores actually *want* compatibility with devices.


RE: Nice
By adiposity on 7/24/2009 12:07:05 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I don't know about that. Do you want a device that only sometimes works with the features it advertises and requires constantly updating to keep a feature working


Or, do you want a software that is constantly updating itself with the sole intention of blocking some phone that you don't give a crap about?

They can already sync with WMP, by the way. This is just added compatibility with iTunes. Since WMP is not usually on Macs, this compatibility is important.

quote:
What if updating your Pre to the latest version to get media sync working again breaks one of your other apps that isn't yet updated for the new webos version?


That would suck. But do we have any information that they have done that? I presume they keep the apps compatible as best they can, otherwise the updates would not be worth installing regularly, as it sounds they plan for them to be (unlike updates to windows mobile, these sound more like iPod or PS3 updates...adding features, full backwards compatibility).

-Dan


RE: Nice
By robinthakur on 7/27/2009 7:55:04 AM , Rating: 2
The way I see it, Apple is a publically-quoted company and certainly should not be doing Palm any favours at this juncture seeing as the Pre poses the biggest threat to iPhone domination of the phone market. Granted its not quite there yet, but certainly it has the potential to not suck like the rest of them...

Apple is doing what it can to erase one of the selling points of the Pre, namely *easy* syncing with iTunes. I didn't realise that an API even existed for non Apple devices to sync with iTunes. Firstly why on earth do Apple allow this? Secondly, why isn't Palm using this instead, or actually building its own software? I think it would undermine my faith in the phone if it had to use a third party application to be able to sync it, which may or may not work.


RE: Nice
By tviceman on 7/24/2009 2:34:35 PM , Rating: 2
I've had sprint since '99 - so I can say with certainty that their service all around has improved dramatically in the past year and a half.


RE: Nice
By T2k on 7/24/2009 5:22:55 PM , Rating: 2
Same thing here except I DO care about staying with TMO - they have the nicest CS and lowest prices w/ least amount of ripoff fees.


Apple is the new ...
By Britt on 7/24/2009 5:03:10 PM , Rating: 3
More and more, it seems Apple is the new Microsoft. I used to want a Mac but now I'm content to stick with Windows and PC-BSD, largely due to dismay with Apple's aggressive anti-competive behavior.




RE: Apple is the new ...
By oxymojoe on 7/25/2009 2:23:37 AM , Rating: 2
Apples customer base "is what it is", and I believe the company actions somewhat reflect this fact. The jerk move by Apple won't alienate them one bit.

Maybe Palm can get more attention for Pre in a sort of reverse psychology way by making people think Apple is hating on Palm, therefore it must be pretty good. Negative publicity is better than none, and a lot of people gleefully respond to Jobs & Co. being annoyed.

I hope the Pre does well, and cannot directly comment on that phone as I never used it.


By 91TTZ on 7/24/2009 11:41:12 AM , Rating: 2
I had to say it.




By The0ne on 7/24/2009 12:46:46 PM , Rating: 2
"Get out of my swamp you damn kids!"

Guess where from :)


By hashish2020 on 7/27/2009 4:14:30 AM , Rating: 2
Not to mention the incredibly long times for iTunes to load up songs (dunno if it is the ID tags or what), its harassment about reformatting files it can't read, the lack of easy to use plugins, the memory sapping iTunes helper, the lag times for button clicks, the need for the utterly resource hogging Quicktime to play even short videos...not to mention, Winamp and many other programs can sync iPods and anything else and also allow you to drag and drop files onto the iPod/mp3 player and off onto your hard drive, while iTunes simply forces you top wipe and sync




"My sex life is pretty good" -- Steve Jobs' random musings during the 2010 D8 conference

Related Articles













botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki