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Microsoft's Xbox One was outsold almost 3-to-1 in Q2 2014

Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) Xbox One console suffered another setback this week, when it was announced that it had been badly outsold by archrival Sony Corp.'s (TYO:6758) PlayStation 4.
 
I. Sales Thud -- PS4 Outsells Xbox One 3-to-1
 
The announcement was perhaps to be expected after Microsoft's earnings report disclosed rather anemic Xbox console sales of 1.1 million units (Xbox One + Xbox 360) in calendar Q2 2014 (April-June).  The PlayStation 4 outsold the Xbox more than 3-to-1, moving 3.5 million [PDF] PS3s and PS4s in the same period.
 
There are many factors that could be viewed as potential culprits in the sales flop.  
 
One cannot discount the negative publicity from early incidents such as Microsoft's DRM plans (which would have made used games unplayable offline and illegal to resell in third party markets) and plans to abandon users with poor internet connections.  However, Microsoft apologized for these incidents and fired many of the people involved.

Xbox One always on
The Xbox One's windup to launch was marred by ugly arguments with gamers over DRM and always-on internet requirements. [Image Source: Xbox 720 Guide] 

After the reversal, gamers by and large forgave Microsoft for the stumbles, hungrily eyeing the potential of the Xbox One as an entertainment hub and gaming machine.  Thus in December reports indicated both the PS4 and Xbox One were both at about 2 million units sold.  But Microsoft's supply shortages and failure to launch in more markets as Sony's PS4 quickly expanded into new countries doomed the Xbox One to fall far behind Sony.

Xbox One Kinect 2
 
Much of Microsoft's supply shortages related to its controversial "always-on" Kinect 2 voice/movement control sensor, which until recently was a required feature.  The Kinect 2 also raised costs, making the console less attractive to some neutral buyers.
 
II. A Year Behind Schedule
 
The sensor was also tied to one of Microsoft's biggest issues -- delayed regionalization.  Microsoft only launched in a limited number of markets in November 2013 -- less than a third as many as Sony did.
 
Originally, Microsoft's plan was to launch in 21 markets.  It announced this plan at the 2013 Electronic Entertainment Expo. Then in August 2013 it announced a nasty surprise for preorders in some of these markets.  It wrote:

At E3, we announced that Xbox One would be available in 21 markets around the world at launch. This was an aggressive goal and the team has been working very hard to deliver Xbox One to as many markets as possible.

Our priority is ensuring our customers get the best Xbox One experience the first day it is available. To do that, and in order to meet demand, we have adjusted the number of markets that will receive Xbox One in November to 13 markets, including Australia, Austria, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, Spain, United Kingdom, United States and New Zealand, in November. 

It added:

We remain committed to launching Xbox One in Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Sweden, Switzerland, as soon as possible in 2014.

Scandinavian countries
Kinect 2 sensor shortages and difficulties in localization of the natural language processing with the sensor has made the Xbox One still unavailable in many lucrative markets like the Scandinavian countries. [Image Source: TheForeigner.no]

Microsoft repeated this promise in September:

Many more markets will follow in 2014.

Technically that's true, but based on its most recent announcements the cancelled launch markets will only receive the Xbox One in September 2014 -- nearly a full year after the date Microsoft had originally promised.  Microsoft will in September launch in 26 more markets -- Argentina, Belgium, Chile, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Hungary, India, Israel, Japan, South Korea, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, and the UAE.
 
Most recently it also announced it would be launching the console in China in September, a decision made possible by the Chinese National Party's decision last year to drop a 14-year-old ban on video game console imports.  So in September, including China, the 26 new markets, and the 13 original markets, the Xbox One will be available in 40 markets -- a massive expansion from the current 13.
 
III. Sony Capitalizes on Kinect 2 Woes
 
But that arrival is almost a year too late.  Sony in November launched 32 markets (nearly three times as many as Microsoft):

When does the PS4 system come out in different countries and regions?
  • North America: November 15, 2013 (Canada and the United States)
  • PAL Markets:
    • November 29th, 2013. (Australia, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom)
    • December 13th (Czech, Hungary, Slovakia, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, Turkey)
    • 2014: (Iceland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Kazakhstan, Ukraine)
  • Latin America: November 29th, 2013 (Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico, Panama, Peru)
  • Japan: February 22nd, 2014
  • Asia regions: The middle of December 2013
  • Other regions: TBA
So at launch it was set to reach 32 markets, and would quickly expand that number to 48 by December 13.
 
PlayStation 4

Sony did not suffer delays like Microsoft.  True to its word, on December 13 it expanded to 13 new markets:

As of this morning, players in the Czech Republic, Hungary, Greece, Slovakia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman and South Africa can get their hands on the most powerful videogame console ever created.

In addition, PS4 also goes on sale today in Bolivia, Nicaragua, Paraguay, and Uruguay, bringing the total number of countries in which PS4 is available to 48, with more to follow later this year and into early 2014.

By the end of 2014 it had reached yet another six markets including some of the wealthiest parts of China (Macau, Hong Kong).  It added another four markets in January and in February finally added Japan (perhaps the only irony/eyebrow raiser in Sony's launch given that it took four months to launch in its home nation).  That brings the grand total to 59 markets in 58 countries.  The Xbox One, to reiterate is only available in 13 markets -- less than a third as many.
 
Sony is planning to expand to 12 more markets by the end of year.  So by the time Microsoft hits 40 markets, Sony will possibly be in nearly 80 markets.  And Chinese buyers in recent surveys indicated they are more interested in buying a PS4 than they are an Xbox One.  In fact it wasn't even close.  Only 10 percent of Chinese console buyers expressed interest in the Xbox One, while 57.3 percent admitted to eyeing a PS4.
 
IV. Microsoft Ditches the Kinect 2 -- But Still Gets Outsold
 
In a way Microsoft's problems mostly trace back to the Kinect 2 sensor.  It's caused supply shortages; its sophisticated voice control has proved a double-edged sword as it required greatly expanded regionalization, slowing the global rollout -- and by proxy, slowing sales.  Last, but not least it forced Microsoft to price the Xbox One at $100 more than the PS4 -- $499 USD.  Sony's $399 USD PS4 was breaking even or profiting from day one, despite its much lower price.
 
On June 8 Microsoft finally launched a SKU without the Kinect 2 for $399 USD -- quite possibly turning its first profit on console hardware.  Sales promptly doubled.

Kinect-less Xbox One

In order to stick to its currently ambitious plan of more than tripling its number of available markets in September, it will likely have to ship to some regions without the Kinect 2 to avoid further delays from hangups in the localization of natural language processing.

Further, ditching the Kinect 2 could be advantageous in alleviating concerns in regions like China who have accused Microsoft of helping the U.S. government spy on international citizens.  Having an always-on camera and microphone attached to your console is sort of a tough sell when your hardware is shipping from a nation increasingly synonymous with spying on the rest of the world.
 
Kinect 2
The always-on Kinect 2 camera and microphone represent privacy risks.

We can make an educated guess at Xbox One sales.  In February, March, and April Microsoft sold:
  • Feburary 2014: 114K Xbox 360s / 258K Xbox Ones (69.3% Xbox Ones)
  • March 2014:  111K Xbox 360s / 311K Xbox Ones (73.7 % Xbox Ones)
  • April 2014: 71K Xbox 360s / 115K Xbox Ones (61.8 percent Xbox Ones)
But we know that Xbox One sales rose in May and doubled in June.  So something around 170K in May and 340K in June is a reasonable estimate.  That gives us a total of around 625K Xbox Ones (and 475K Xbox 360s) for the quarter.  That in turn gives lifetime sales of around 5.6 million units.  That's about the average guess.  It could vary in the 5.5 to 5.8 million range, but it's highly unlikely to have reached 6 million.
 
But the troubling part for Microsoft that according to Sony's earnings report Sony Computer Entertainment sold 3.5 million consoles (inc. PS3s) -- of which likely 2.5-3 million were PS4s.  That's roughly one million consoles per month on average.  In other words, even after Microsoft ditched the Kinect 2 in its new SKU and doubled sales as a result, it still appears to have likely sold only about a third of the consoles Sony did in June. 
 
Edge Online
[Image: Edge Online]

Again, the regionalization was largely slowed, by all appearances by the complicated voice controls entailed with the Kinect 2.  This isn't all bad.  Microsoft is working to integrate natural language translators into Skype and other core products across its multi-platform upcoming Windows 9 "Threshold" OS.  So it isn't exactly wasted work.
 
But on the downside, the Kinect 2 has been an undeniable boondoggle in terms of stunting console unit sales globally in multiple ways.  In a way Microsoft's decision to abandon the Kinect 2 in at least one SKU was a necessary to give its lagging console a fighting chance.  But it's also sort of a testament to Microsoft's realization that Kinect 2 has been killing the Xbox One.
 
V. Xbox One Also Appears to be Trailing Badly in Software Sales
 
Sony's PS4 has been the top selling console from February through July in the world's most lucrative gaming market, the U.S.  Total lifetime PS4 sales are at about 10 million units [source: 1, 2].  
 
Software sales (inc. PSP Vita and PS3 titles) rose from 68 million units last year to 85 million units.  That indicates likely 35-50 million PS4 software sales in Q2 2014 -- especially since Sony observed a "decrease in PS3 software sales".  The PSP Vita sales remained relatively flat rising from around 600K units in calendar Q2 2013 to 750K units in 2014.
 
Add in the 20.5 million PS4 titles Sony had sold by the end March, and you're likely taking somewhere around 55-70 million software titles sold.

Watchdogs
Despite a high per-console attach rate, poor consoles sales have capped Microsoft's software sales.
 
Microsoft at the end of March announced sales of 5 million consoles and 2.9 software titles per console (14.5 million Xbox One titles).  Add in the 1.1 million consoles sold in calendar Q2 2014 and you have lifetime sales of 6.1 million units -- roughly half of the footprint of the PS4.
 
The games per console figures were released for February, March, and April:
Two months have passed since then, so let's generously suppose that the attach rate growth has accelerated in the past two months (May, June) to reach 3.5 to 4 games.  Well, you're talking about lifetime sales of 21 to 25 million titles; probably around a third as many software sales as the PS4.
 
VI. What Now?
 
So the PS4 appears to have a nearly 2-to-1 lead in lifetime console sales, a 2-to-1 lead in monthly consoles sales, and a nearly 3-to-1 lead in lifetime software sales.
 
Microsoft's September expansion of the new SKU without the bedeviled Kinect 2 sensor to 40 markets can't come soon enough.  But as mentioned even then Sony will likely still be in nearly twice as many markets and in some of the largest markets (like China) Microsoft appears to be losing the hearts of gamers.
Sony PS4 controller 

It's still too early to say if Microsoft has truly lost this round of the console war. But if it cannot right the ship with the broader international rollout and pull even or pass Sony in monthly sales by the end of 2014, it may be all but over for Microsoft in terms of hoping to have the top console.  
 
In that regard Microsoft's Xbox One appears to be eerily mirroring the Sony PS3's struggles in the last generation -- from cost issues from a weird component(s) (CELL and blue laser diodes, in the PS3 case), to low sales, to supply shortages (also due to the troubled components in each case).

Xbox hugger
[Image Source: BreakingNews.ie]

As Kermit the Frog once said, "It's not easy being green."
 
And right now, it's especially tough if you're wearing Xbox green.

Sources: Sony [PDF], Microsoft [press release]





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Other reasons
By Dug on 8/1/2014 1:27:05 PM , Rating: 4
Software- More fluent with indie developers. Easier to get software online and in front of users. i.e. Resogun is becoming a console seller on it's own.
More sales on software (for subscribers)
Apparently a little faster in graphics dept.
Better controller (my opinion)
Lots of free games each month.
Easy interface without adds
Huge download speed increase compared to ps3
Downloads and updates done during standby
Streaming older games.
Can stream games to my Vita
Smaller case
Replaceable hard drive
The Last of Us

But when Halo comes out, I may get an xbox one.
Not sure if it will be worth it for one game though.
I've been playing Destiny and that of course has a similar feeling and it will be on both consoles so it may be a better online experience.




RE: Other reasons
By Dug on 8/1/2014 1:29:17 PM , Rating: 2
Forgot VR headset which everyone seems to like that's tried it.


RE: Other reasons
By peterrushkin on 8/1/2014 1:30:37 PM , Rating: 2
Which looks like turd compared to the Occulus Rift.


RE: Other reasons
By Dug on 8/1/2014 3:27:57 PM , Rating: 3
Which looks better than anything xbox one has.


RE: Other reasons
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 4:46:25 PM , Rating: 2
Not true. While Microsoft doesn't have a test device yet they have a massive upper hand.

Oculus has only one patent filing while Microsoft has something like 81 with an additional 75 in process through Osterhout patent purchase at a fraction of the cost of Oculus. Osterhout is like Q from James Bond he actually made shooting pens, night vision, and iris scanners. Oculus was a kickstarter project.

Watch from 3 mins onward
EG5 Ralph Osterhout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrDgFjBSVuE

Consider he is a lifehacker as well.
Ralph Osterhout Invention Is the Mother of Creativity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fXlHEOBrj0


RE: Other reasons
By peterrushkin on 8/2/14, Rating: 0
RE: Other reasons
By ProfFarnsworth on 8/1/14, Rating: 0
RE: Other reasons
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 3:17:37 PM , Rating: 2
"consoles are gonna be closed off with no potential"

Right... Except for the potential of the highest selling, funnest games and no hassle.

I get it, PC master race and all... I have have a great gaming PC too, but honestly, I use the consoles far more. Like 90/10. Why? Funner, more comfortable to play, no hassle with this and that driver and other incompatibilities and overall better games and better selection of games.

You guys look at horsepower and end the debate. There is far more to gaming than a fast system.


RE: Other reasons
By FITCamaro on 8/1/2014 3:21:53 PM , Rating: 2
Indeed. I have a good gaming PC too. But consoles have their place. You put the game in, install it, and go. No worrying about upgrading drivers, incompatibilities, etc.


RE: Other reasons
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 3:24:17 PM , Rating: 3
Exactly... I used to have a lot more time for tinkering with my PC and gaming... Now, the time is limited, so I can tinker, or game. Game won.


RE: Other reasons
By mackx on 8/2/2014 6:32:13 AM , Rating: 5
what the hell kind of PCs do you people have to worry about that crap? i download a game off steam, play. i only bother with graphics drivers every few months.

plus you can use a controller if you want, or play FPS properly using a keyboard and mouse and remove the console excuse of the auto aim messing your shot up.


RE: Other reasons
By someguy123 on 8/2/2014 2:24:31 PM , Rating: 5
The types of people who claim consoles are slap and play compared to PCs are idiots. Consoles definitely have their place (relatively cheap entertainment systems), but they are becoming more of a hassle every iteration. Consoles haven't been plug and go since the cartridge days, though even the PS2/GC era was much less of a hassle.

When I started up my PS4 for the first time:
-Basic install/setup wizard like you would see on any PC.
-Network check and setup
-PS Camera setup
-EULA Agreement
-Request to update firmware
-Game installation
-Popup asking to set amount of screen space used when I loaded my first game

Not all that different from the autoplay installation on a prebuilt PC, though the installation process is more streamlined. Compared to Steam it is practically the same. These days software like the "geforce experience" automatically check for new drivers and can install drivers without a system reset. If you find it difficult to play games on a PC you are a complete moron.


RE: Other reasons
By Reclaimer77 on 8/2/14, Rating: 0
RE: Other reasons
By ProfFarnsworth on 8/2/2014 8:41:46 PM , Rating: 4
Except that is a Developer issue. Not user issue. Not our fault that a developer is pants on head retarded when making games for PC. In fact that the community fixed the game gives pc gaming a positive.

Community made mods have been, in recent years, so much better than the DLC made by the actual developers. Look at GTA4! Ironman mod and Hulk mod!


RE: Other reasons
By Reclaimer77 on 8/3/2014 4:06:11 PM , Rating: 1
This isn't about one being "better" than the other. I'm a PC gamer, I know all this. That wasn't my point.


RE: Other reasons
By SlyNine on 8/3/2014 4:30:31 PM , Rating: 4
Yet you used it to try an prove your point. And he refuted it... Plenty of games are broken out of the box for consoles.


RE: Other reasons
By someguy123 on 8/2/2014 9:11:15 PM , Rating: 1
Bad ports are definitely a problem, but like another poster said it's a chicken and egg issue. Devs make bad ports to "test" the waters and then continue to push out bad ports because their buggy ports bombed. This happened to the ps3 too, but eventually developers got on board and dealt with the crappy Cell processor. Multiplat games during the first few years of the ps3's launch had all kinds of pop-in, texture and mesh problems thanks to lazy porting.

Dark Souls is an example of a dev with a low budget and tight deadlines, though. The console version had horrendous framerates in blight town and the dragonhead exploit made online play pretty pointless until you scrounged up enough souls. Game was also really grind heavy at launch. The PC port was even more rushed than the main game, so it wasn't that surprising to me when they announced how barebones it was. Recently it seems like PC ports have been getting better, with even the MGS:R port running pretty well.


RE: Other reasons
By FITCamaro on 8/4/2014 11:37:55 AM , Rating: 2
Custom built. I use a controller quite often too for games that support them.

It has nothing to do with my PC but the games themselves which have bugs. Watch Dogs is the most recent example of a game released without proper testing that has caused nightmares for many with PCs.


RE: Other reasons
By tamalero on 8/5/2014 10:25:14 AM , Rating: 2
ahem.. modern games on consoles DO need updates.
the consoles also get constant firmware (or OS updates).
the only difference is, console have these downloads centralized.
while the PC depends exclusively on the parts you have.


RE: Other reasons
By inighthawki on 8/1/2014 4:45:03 PM , Rating: 3
To be fair, a lot of game devs don't develop good games (or high quality titles) on PC because:
1) They got paid off to make an exclusive or are a first party developer
2) They made a really crappy port of their first game and used the poor sales/reception as an excuse to not bother the second time around. It's sort of a chicken and the egg problem.

Yes there will always be a little extra work because they cannot feasibly test on a million hardware configurations, but I've seen plenty of games (especially those built on well tested engines like Unreal) run absolutely fine with no hassle. It's not until they start adding all the DRM sh*t on top that things become a mess.

P.S.

lol, you said 'Funner' :)


RE: Other reasons
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 5:25:28 PM , Rating: 2
I think you start with the lowest and enhance your game on the way up.

360, PS3, XBONE, PS4, PC.

So if I write the game for the 360/PS3 and have higher resolution and textures for the more powerful consoles and PC then I have the maximum sales opportunity. Some game engines have this scaling/eye candy built in.

In essence popularity of old consoles holds the market back.


RE: Other reasons
By ProfFarnsworth on 8/1/2014 7:45:55 PM , Rating: 2
But that's also said about PC games too. No master race here.

You can do pretty much everything and more with the pc. For me, it's all about the variety with games and not some dudebro game that is put out by consoles. I just can't fathom the idea of playing games on inferior hardware and not seeing the full potential of games.

I love my mods, community content, sweet deals, emulation, backwards compatibility, peripherals, genres, and what not.

I also hate how games are being dumbed down from console to PC. That is what irks me the most.


RE: Other reasons
By Jereb on 8/4/2014 1:37:08 AM , Rating: 2
PC drivers update themselves nowadays through steam and I don't think driver/compatibility issues have been a "thing" since early 2000.

Consoles receive regular updates, where they won't let you play games before installing them as well.

"Better games" is pretty subjective, I would say that the PC has a much wider selection of better games. Given that it can play all previous consoles via emulators.

Comfort... yeah I can concede somewhat on that, my pc is on a desk upstairs, but I do have a media pc hooked upto my tv. I just don't have a controller for it (can get one though).


RE: Other reasons
By Dug on 8/1/2014 3:51:17 PM , Rating: 2
The Last of Us isn't that good? Metascore of 94?

In any case I was listing positives compared to xbox not a pc.
If you want more though, here you go-

Bloodborne
Uncharted 4
The Order 1886
No Man's Sky (may be on pc a year later)
Driveclub
Dead nation apocalypse
Earth Defense Force
Infamouse Second Son
MLB The Show
Resogun
Shadow of the Beast
Deep Down
Let it Die

These are just some of the PS4 exclusives that you can't play on a PC or Xbox. There's also a massive list of console only games that are xbox and ps4 with no PC ports.
Oh let's not forget about Destiny- we'll be playing that for a full year before it comes out for PC.

So you can complain about the hardware all you want, but the fact is there are many fantastic games. They look good, sound good, they are optimized for the hardware and controller, and we don't have to fiddle with different hardware requirements.

It's a different breed, PC games are not made for big screen sitting on the couch.
There's certainly many games that are better suited for the PC, but the fact that you can't understand the positives of a console, and miss out on hundreds of good games is actually the mind boggling part.


RE: Other reasons
By ProfFarnsworth on 8/1/14, Rating: 0
RE: Other reasons
By Dug on 8/2/2014 11:50:18 AM , Rating: 2
Like I said, you have no clue. You have zero argument because you missed the whole point.

You are trying to argue for no reason except you think console games aren't good. Sorry you don't like sports, racing, side scrollers, adventure, or action games.

The problem is, no one would agree with you.
For instance your remark about resogun. People are buying ps4 just to play that game. It's one of the best of its kind, but you have no idea what you're missing because you are too narrow minded.
Not to mention the hundreds of console games that aren't ps4 exclusives. I suppose you'll try to put all of those down too. Good luck with your simple view on gaming and missing out on what millions of others get to experience.


RE: Other reasons
By ProfFarnsworth on 8/2/2014 1:25:51 PM , Rating: 2
I never said console games arenot good enough. There are plenty of games that are amazing that PC doesn't have. But the argument as it stands is what the previous poster started was exclusive titles.

I can tell you that lots of games on the consoles are superb but when it comes down to how developers treat PC games, it's appalling. Like watch dogs.

Sports games are the same thing over and over. Side scrollers cannot be used as an argument for next gen. Adventure games are all over the place for console and PC, no issues there. Action games are the same thing.

If you really are implying that I am narrow minded because I don't wanna spend more money in the long run to get a "Next Gen" system, then it is you that are completely blind to the fact that these systems are not "Next Gen"


RE: Other reasons
By Jereb on 8/4/2014 1:42:13 AM , Rating: 2
I agree with him, consoles have some good exclusives. PC's have far more.

Both are generally of a great quality. However those that come out on pc later are generally of a higher quality than what it was on the console.


RE: Other reasons
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 3:58:58 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I don't get why people are creaming their pants on old hardware. IT boggles the mind that these 2 big compnaies couldn't make an actual competitive system to the PC.


Of course they could have. Just not for $400 bucks!

What part of $400 do you people not get? The video card alone on my gaming PC was over $300! Hello?


RE: Other reasons
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 5:19:40 PM , Rating: 2
You need a PC to get through life today. Chances are everyone has one already.

With a $100.00 video card purchase you can turn nearly any PC today into a decent gaming rig.

So the cost is not from scratch its from enhancing what you already have.

Your argument would make more sense if someone wanted a PC just for the sole purpose of gaming and not doing anything else on it but again most people have a PC they just need to upgrade or add a graphics card.


RE: Other reasons
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 5:29:45 PM , Rating: 4
"You need a PC to get through life today."

You really don't. A lot of people have a tablet only, and even more have a laptop only where you obviously cant just pop in a video card. Desktops aren't all that popular these days amigo. And again, even if you have a desktop, for most people consoles still offer a better easier gaming experience.


RE: Other reasons
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 6:07:14 PM , Rating: 2
Better is subject to opinion. I play at 5760x1080p in FPS on a PC with a much wider field of view than a single screen with what feels like blinders on.

Easier I would agree its just a power button although Steam is pretty darn easy. Buy - Yes to Install - Play. Pretty much the same method as a tablet.


RE: Other reasons
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 6:19:58 PM , Rating: 3
Like I said.. For most people. Most people aren't going to have 3 monitors on their desktop for PC gaming. Most people don't know something like that is even possible, and if they did, wouldn't care enough about gaming to spend that kind of time or $ on it.


RE: Other reasons
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 8:15:01 PM , Rating: 2
Agree its not well known but nothing complicated about it you have to have at least one monitor for the PC to be usable and all video cards support triple screens today just a matter of adding two more monitors or just one more if you already went to dual screens. Staples coupon code and a well timed sale I got my 21" monitors years ago for $75.00 each. Since replaced with 24's now I run 6 screens. I cant say more than 3 is effective but when football season comes around a 4th works.

Still there are things I like from both worlds consoles and PC not sure why anyone has to take a side but upgrading a PC to compete with a console is not expensive.

You already have a PC. Add a $100.00 video card for gaming. Spend $200.00 more on two more monitors and for $300.00 you can play a lot of games at 5760x1080p.


RE: Other reasons
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 8:45:32 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, i know how to do it, I have one myself and have built 100's of PC's from scratch in my life. My point is most people dont know how to find the device manager much less know how to load a driver. Even many that do choose console over PC for ease of use and better game selection.


RE: Other reasons
By ProfFarnsworth on 8/1/2014 10:09:57 PM , Rating: 2
I am gonna agree with reclaimer on this one. Most people that I know that were hardcore console users switched to PC once they figured out how to use it and also figured out why it's much cheaper than consoles. So I have no idea where you come in saying most PC game players stay on consoles when it's the opposite. Most console players will stay on PC once they learn.


RE: Other reasons
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 10:52:39 PM , Rating: 2
That isn't what I said.I said most people don't know how to build or deal with a PC and/or don't care to learn or spend the time on it. I said many that do know how also choose not to, or at least use both... On top of that forget what I say, go look at game sales numbers over the past decade.


RE: Other reasons
By ProfFarnsworth on 8/2/2014 1:49:42 PM , Rating: 2
My point is most people dont know how to find the device manager much less know how to load a driver. Even many that do choose console over PC for ease of use and better game selection.

That is what you said.

Also

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/04...


RE: Other reasons
By SlyNine on 8/3/2014 4:41:23 PM , Rating: 2
Game sales often don't count digital sales. plus that's not what you said at all. You're becoming a bit of a moving goal post.


RE: Other reasons
By wallijonn on 8/5/2014 1:55:21 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Most console players will stay on PC once they learn.


I must be in the minority then because I gave up PC gaming when Halo II could only run under Vista (you remember Vista, don't you?) and DX10 needed a PCI-E video card, which also meant a new motherboard, a new CPU, a bigger power supply and new memory.

I bought an XB360, PS3, and Wii for less than what I would have built a new PC. My days of paying $400 for a video card are over.

I'm in no rush to buy the latest gen consoles.


RE: Other reasons
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/14, Rating: 0
RE: Other reasons
By inighthawki on 8/1/2014 10:29:45 PM , Rating: 2
Just stop replying to him :) Let him continue to be an idiot...


RE: Other reasons
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/14, Rating: -1
RE: Other reasons
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 8:35:19 PM , Rating: 2
Your argument is that people have to buy a whole from the ground up gaming level PC to get PS4/XBONE graphics/gaming and its simply not true. Most people have a PC with enough CPU its their GPU that's limited especially for 1080P. You think the Jaguar CPU in the PS4/XBONE is some sort of i7 on a chip? Its not even close to an i3. An Intel G3258 is a $75.00 processor and crushes a Jaguar on CPU performance. Add a $100.00 video card to the G3258 and you have a nice little gaming rig. What speed hard drive you think is in the PS4/XBONE? Ill help you its a 500GB 5400 RPM SATA II hard drive.

The Pentium G3258 Cheap Overclocking Experiment
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pentium-g3258-...


RE: Other reasons
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 8:49:18 PM , Rating: 2
"Most people have a PC with enough CPU"

No, they dont. Most people dont have a desktop PC at all. Most people use laptops, SFF, and all in ones or just tablets... FFS, why is this so hard for you to grasp. Normal people dont want to build gaming rig's when a better cheaper ready to go system is available. Your whole argument hinges on the fact that the 2% of the population that can build a PC are the only humans that exist. Most people dont know how, and many that do dont care.


RE: Other reasons
By SlyNine on 8/3/2014 4:47:43 PM , Rating: 2
Yet enough people DO own desktops to make it a valid argument. Just because laptops and tablets over took OEM desktop sales doesn't mean a lot of those people don't own both.

The point of his argument is that a lot of people own a desktop PC and could turn it into a gaming system on the cheap. Sure not "everyone needs one". But the base of his argument is still valid.

Stop trying to only argue the weakest points he's made.


RE: Other reasons
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 9:06:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Your argument is that people have to buy a whole from the ground up gaming level PC to get PS4/XBONE graphics/gaming and its simply not true.


OMG you again...

The OP said build a gaming PC. Key word: BUILD!

Wtf is the problem here? Seriously just stop.


RE: Other reasons
By SlyNine on 8/3/2014 4:48:57 PM , Rating: 2
Yet, somehow he was replying to you and not the OP...


RE: Other reasons
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 8:55:49 PM , Rating: 2
"Why do you keep arguing against point's I've never made?"

Reclaimer, meet Mitch, he has MS e-peen issues.


RE: Other reasons
By SlyNine on 8/3/2014 4:58:16 PM , Rating: 2
Mitch prefers PC gaming, has made an argument that most people could have turned there PC's in to gaming PC's for the cost of a console. Of course in some cases people buy tablets and notebooks.

Each time you have choose to focus on only the weakest aspects of his arguments without acknowledging the main points. Whatever flaws Mitch's arguments might have, you have resorted to name calling to prove your point. Do you really think you've made one sound argument so far?


RE: Other reasons
By melgross on 8/1/2014 7:17:01 PM , Rating: 2
You want to spend over $1,000 on a console (not including the Tv)?

With Microsoft struggling at $500, that's just not viable.


RE: Other reasons
By SlyNine on 8/3/2014 5:02:38 PM , Rating: 2
I think these consoles will have plenty of power to make great looking games. I'm just surprised they used such a weak CPU.

I don't understand all the fuss. Compared to last time both consoles have much better GPUs (for the time). Which is what everyone will notice anyways.


RE: Other reasons
By stm1185 on 8/1/2014 7:36:10 PM , Rating: 2
Lol at more fluent with indie developers. As if that indie garbage moves consoles.


Out of touch
By Nephelai on 8/4/2014 11:29:29 AM , Rating: 2
The gaming demographic is now 30+. We don't want some piss ant media box we already have internet connected smart TV's and home theatre systems orders of magnitudes better. We just want a console that plays games. These piss ant media solutions sold well when we were young and broke but times have changed. Whoever adds game play capability to a home theatre system will win the internet.




RE: Out of touch
By BZDTemp on 8/4/2014 3:59:54 PM , Rating: 2
LOL - you could almost not be anymore wrong. While I don't care for a console to be a fancy TV controller there is nothing wrong with it being able to play/stream some media.

The idea of putting gaming power into a home theater system is really not attractive. A good home theater system with lots of power for starters does generate some heat and it is not ideal to combine that with computing power needed for gaming as that is adding heat to heat. And then there is the fact that home theater systems has a longer working life than gaming hardware - or do you imagine running multiple home theater+gaming systems next to each other? One home theater system and then one or more separate consoles is a far better solution.


RE: Out of touch
By Reclaimer77 on 8/5/2014 8:30:42 AM , Rating: 2
So instead of buying a $400 console, you have to buy a $1,500+ television whenever you want a gaming upgrade?

LOL yeah, I agree with you. That guy's idea is horrible.


RE: Out of touch
By jmke on 8/6/2014 9:43:06 AM , Rating: 3
he didn't say "tv" he said "home theatre system", which can be just a piece of the puzzle.

basically a steambox with a brandlogo on it & a nice controller. nothing more is needed.


It should be
By rocky12345 on 8/1/2014 1:46:16 PM , Rating: 2
Hello
It should be which ever console fits your needs best & the games you want to play but now days with the websites either bashing or raving about new tech people make up their minds by what the websites say about a product.

What should happen but does not very much any more is a person use their own mind & weigh the pros & cons of a product & decide that way. For a console it should be decided on what you want to do on it & the type of games it has to offer. If 1 console has 2 or 3 titles that are only going to be on 1 console & those are the games you have played from start to finish in the past & want to play the newly released versions of those games when they come out but it is only on 1 console then that would be put into the pro's.

But to blindly decide to go with which ever console a few closed minded websites say oh it has 4% more performance than console B & these sites do not include the good points from both console along with the bad points it paints a crappy picture & people will follow like sheep.

It reminds me of the Windows Vista release websites that were negative about Vista were heard by all & the ones that gave a balanced view of Vista seemed to be invisible to almost everyone because it was easier to hate one something you never actually seen or used than it was to try it out & make an informed decision on your own. BY the way Vista was not totally at fault most of the blame with driver issues Vista had at the beginning with printers & scanners was the fault of companies like HP,Brother,Samsung,Lexmark etc because they refused at first to make updated drivers for anything that was over a year old but after a lot of arm twisting these companies caved & started updating their driver data base for the hardware that people bought from them that was over a year old. My point is everyone dissed Vista because of negative reviews from websites something similar is now happening here with the Xbox one. No I am not a fanboy I actually own both a PS3 & X360 neither get used much so I have loyalty for either console I buy which ever will give me to most value. With the new ones neither fit that bill because all 4 of my PC computers have more juice under the hood than either console besides for online media I use chrome cast devices & roku devices in the house for anything streaming & my PS3 is used for Bluray only & the x360 gets used by the kid from time to time for Halo 4 weekend game fests.

Thanks




RE: It should be
By rocky12345 on 8/1/2014 1:50:26 PM , Rating: 2
Wanted to add the kid was talking about wanting a PS4 because he heard it was so much better. I asked him if he got a chance to try both consoles before making deciding. He said no just what I read online. I said what is the game you play on the console the most....Halo of coarse...I said to him & how do you figure you would play Halo 5 on a PS4. He said hmmm never even thought of that...I rest my case on my last post..lol


RE: It should be
By wallijonn on 8/5/2014 2:24:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
... everyone dissed Vista because of negative reviews from websites; something similar is now happening here with the Xbox one.


Those of us that saw that it was a resource hog, that came to know that it needed at least 4G to run well, saw that in the Enterprise environment it would cost substantially more to implement. The websites bashing of Vista was warranted, imo.

Last gen when presented with a game that ran 720p (or less) instead of 1080i or 1080p, I picked the better resolution version. This gen the PS4 seems to have the upper hand on resolution.


Momentum
By Dr K on 8/1/2014 1:48:54 PM , Rating: 2
Momentum is very important in the console business. Software developers develop their titles for the most popular console, which in turn drives console sales. It's a snowball effect. MS dug themselves a hole they may have trouble digging out of. Sony managed to recover in the last generation, so it's possible. What MS needs to do to recover is successful XBone exclusives. It's the only truly persuasive way to get people to buy YOUR console.




RE: Momentum
By inperfectdarkness on 8/2/2014 4:49:58 AM , Rating: 2
MS has NEVER had the momentum though. Xbox2 was successful because Sony hedged their bet on winning Blu-Ray. As soon as that was over, PS was back on top & MS is again lackluster and behind.

I seriously wish Xbox would just go away already. MS needs to spend time polishing Windows & fixing stupid software issues (Silverlight won't install on Firefox?, etc)

Look, I'm a huge MS fan in many respects. I always use Windows, I always use Office. MS's best offerings are still software though. That's how the company got started, and that's what they should stick to now. MS has had hardware failure after hardware failure, and the Xbox is no exception. The unfortunate reality is that their 2nd generation xbox came out during a format war, and the artificial success of that generation of console insured that MS would try AGAIN with a 3rd generation. If the 360 had failed, MS would have bowed out and this would all be a moot point.

I'd be more than happy to play MS license games on PS or Wii. Can MS just please stop with the hardware already? Please?


Gamers Forgiving Microsoft
By Flunk on 8/1/2014 1:34:48 PM , Rating: 3
I wouldn't say we've all forgiven Microsoft for all the insulting and user-hostile policies they initially announced. I personally am never going to buy an XBox One, and previously I was quite happy with my Xbox 360.

If Microsoft really thinks so little of its customers I don't want to be one of them. Say what you will about Sony's track record, they've been above board with everything this generation.




Kinect 2 isn't the problem
By EasyC on 8/1/2014 1:48:33 PM , Rating: 3
I don't know why this article infers that Kinect was the reason Microsoft is losing. It's not the [only] reason.

There were no Xbox One shortages (at least around here) in December. I know this because I walked into a store and bought 2 to sell in case there was a shortage. They sat on eBay and never got a single bid (nor many views) even though they were listed at retail price. I returned them after the holiday season. I've never seen shelves empty for the console.

Kinect 2 didn't doom the Xbone, shortages didn't doom the Xbone. Microsoft's initial DRM fiasco, coupled with significantly inferior hardware, coupled with visibly deficient graphics output on games doomed Xbone.

Can they get better? Yes. I hope they do. Competition is great for the consumer.




As a MS guy ..
By Jim_Liquor on 8/1/2014 7:27:21 PM , Rating: 3
As an MS guy, I would usually tow the line of "BAH BS PS4 SUXORS LOLZ!!!" only in adult terms ... however ..

Microsoft shot themselves in the foot. I saw it coming, at least a year ago, and it rock stupid to bundle in Kinect, which, while useful for a small minority, no one wanted ... and then price it far higher than the PS4.

Right now I still like the XB1 controller better - sorry Sony, I cannot do two thumb sticks 1/2 an inch apart - but other than that... yeah Sony has kicked their asses.

This coming from a Windows Phone / Xbox 360 / Surface RT / Windows 8.1 fan. Maybe they need to take that into account, take a hardware profit loss of $50 a console, price it at $350 or so and get back to business.




Bad Execution
By Da W on 8/1/2014 3:00:15 PM , Rating: 2
With phones, tablets, Windows 8, Xbox one, Cloud offerings, Microsoft had the opportunity to offer the best ecosystem on the planet! One to beat Apple and even beat Google. Sure as hell could beat Sony. They fumbled the ball on all 4.

(yet since then the stock has doubled ?!?)




Could have used a better name
By ProZach on 8/1/2014 6:35:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There are many factors that could be viewed as potential culprits in the sales flop

It seems the name of the console is underwhelming too. Not to say PS4 is a genius name but even Xbox 720 (as many unofficially dubbed it) would have been an improvement.

Xbone is lame enough when spoken correctly but the abbreviation looks like it's something from an autopsy. In light of this article, perhaps it's fitting. :)




Xbox One? More like Xbox Done!
By jnemesh on 8/1/2014 7:27:04 PM , Rating: 2
Sales did indeed "double" for a couple weeks in June, but recent numbers suggest that they have dropped back down to levels similar to what they had before the new Kinectless model was introduced. They have a lower price, but customers know (especially after countless news stories) that the XB1 is markedly inferior to the PS4 when playing games!

The argument that they are in fewer countries doesn't hold water either. These "Tier 2" countries made up less than 10% of Xbox 360 sales...I expect that they will make up less than 10% of XB1 sales as well.

You also have a significant content problem on the Xbox One! The PS4 currently has DOUBLE the number of games available for it than the Xbox One. Discount the "crap indie" games all you want, but some of those "indies" are damn good, and when you don't have but a handful of games to choose from, the variety is nice to have!

As far as "exclusive" games go, the Xbox One is weak here too. Take away "Fantasia" and "Dance Central", which are Kinect games...and what do you have left for 2014? Sunset Overdrive, Project Spark, and Halo 1-4 rehashed. None of these, with the POSSIBLE exception of Halo, is going to sell HARDWARE! Call of Duty probably has the best chance of doing that, but I guarantee you it will look and play better on the PS4...I don't even think the timed exclusivity of DLC is going to help Xbox this time!

On the other hand, Sony DOES have system selling titles like The Last of Us, and Destiny (multiplatform, but they have a Destiny Bundle and exclusive DLC for it) which will BURY the Xbox one come September!

Bottom line, the Xbox One is DONE! The best thing they could do at this point is to kill their lame console and focus on PC gaming!




By BZDTemp on 8/3/2014 8:59:57 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft want the One to be not only a gaming machine but also a TV center thing, but for that to really work they need the TV functionality to be flawless and that means a One sold in say Denmark needs to know the Danish TV-market and also be able to understand Danish when one speaks to it. In other words localizing the One is much more than making sure the included power cable fits in the wall socket and that the Quick Start guide has been translated to Danish.

On top those challenges there was also issues with the One not playing well with some TV standards used in Europe (PAL 50 Hz). I think an update has fixed this, but not being on top that from day 1 certainly did not help things ie. making early adopters having a bad experience.




By Nightraptor on 8/4/2014 11:40:01 AM , Rating: 2
The way I see the gaming market there are really two broad categories of gamers. The first we'll call your "hardcore" gamers. These are the types who go crazy for games like Halo, Titanfall, CoD, BF, etc. The second is more your "social" gamer. These are the types who made Nintendo Wii sales go through the roof. Now to be clear I'm not saying there is no in between, I'm just choosing to paint with a broad brush to make the point. When you look at what appeals to these different categories of gamers the equations looks something like this.

Hardcore Gamers

The Games > The Hardware > The Price > The Gimmicks

Casual Gamers

The Price > The Gimmicks > The Games > The Hardware

(By "the Gimmicks" I mean things like the Wii controller, Kinect, etc.)

If the hierarchies of importance I gave are correct, it is easy to see why Xbox is falling behind. The Hardcore Gamer crowd that is going to buy the Xbox is largely going to do so due to Xbox exclusive games that they are attached to (i.e. Halo). If the content is non-exclusive the PlayStation, with its superior hardware and cheaper price, is a better choice. On the other hand the Xbox is going to fail to appeal to the Social Gaming crowd as a result of its exhorbinant price, and the fact that hardware doesn't matter that much to Social Gamers. Many of them are content with their Wii's still.

The way I see it Microsoft made some huge missteps with the Xbox One in terms of both pricing and hardware choices. Their best hope to turn things around is with some killer exclusive content, but that does not appear to be happening right now.




Consoles suck
By vision33r on 8/4/2014 2:17:36 PM , Rating: 2
Takes me less time to get a Steam game installed then any console games even with a disc I need to install a bunch of updates that takes almsot 1/2 hr to download/restart before I can even play then get bombarded with 10 mins of video intros that I can't skip.




I no longer believe in Microsoft as a company
By masamasa on 8/2/2014 1:20:09 PM , Rating: 1
Xbox 360 was an absolute piece of junk, all four of the ones that I owned. Windows Server products have been overly complicated and unstable for years. Mobile? They are nowhere to be found. Windows 8 forcing a tablet interfce on end users with no touch screen. No start button, but it magically returns in Windows 9? The list goes on and on.

They don't know jack squat about customer relations.

You think they would have figured it out by now, but it seems they have not.




Cheap Bastards
By coburn_c on 8/1/14, Rating: -1
RE: Cheap Bastards
By Flunk on 8/1/2014 1:38:16 PM , Rating: 2
True, as a good comparison the PS3 shipped with a top of the line Geforce GPU (GeForce 7800 series). The PS4 is roughly requivalent to a low-mid Radeon 7850.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 2:09:48 PM , Rating: 3
Whooooa! Full stop there Mr Sulu.

The PS3 shipped with a GPU "based" on the 7800 GTX. That's not the same as shipping WITH a GTX 7800.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Flunk on 8/1/2014 2:33:46 PM , Rating: 2
Same argument holds for the PS4's GPU. Also, could you have stated that in a more juvenile way?

Microsoft and Sony have stated that they launched with lower-end hardware than the last console generation to save money so I don't see how your argument holds any weight. Assuming that your comment is what you consider passes for an argument.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Da W on 8/1/2014 2:54:20 PM , Rating: 2
Back in the days the top of the line GPU only need one 6-pin powercable and you could build your whole system to consume under 500W, and that was a LOT.
Nowadays you can cook your breakfast on a R9 290x / GTX 280ti in 5 minutes and need almost a 1000W power supply. You can't put THAT in a console!


RE: Cheap Bastards
By FITCamaro on 8/1/2014 3:18:47 PM , Rating: 2
You most certainly do not need a 1000W PSU for a system with a GTX 780Ti. A friend of mine has one and I think is running a 750W PSU and its more than enough.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By inighthawki on 8/1/2014 4:35:28 PM , Rating: 2
You could power a pair of 780Ti's on a 750W PSU (a good one, at least)


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Da W on 8/1/2014 11:09:02 PM , Rating: 2
That's still far from the 90W standard a console pumps!


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 8:07:58 PM , Rating: 2
That's one area I see system builders going crazy with, PSU's that are just massively over sized for no reason.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 3:36:05 PM , Rating: 2
My point was clear. People for some reason have a habit of vastly overstating the graphics power of the Playstation 3 for some reason. It was not on par with gaming PC's of the time, not even close.

Also as history showed, the potential power of the PS3 was never realized. Games didn't look any better than the Xbox because the PS3 was so difficult for game developers to work with.

I'm not sure what was so "juvenile" about me referencing a Star Trek character from 40 years ago anyway.

quote:
Microsoft and Sony have stated that they launched with lower-end hardware than the last console generation to save money so I don't see how your argument holds any weight.


What argument? I was correcting a GROSS misstatement, that is all. I made no such argument.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Chaser on 8/1/2014 5:56:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the potential power of the PS3 was never realized. Games didn't look any better than the Xbox because the PS3 was so difficult for game developers to work with.

I disagree. I believe because the 360 launched first developers that produced titles for both consoles purposely chose not to harness the PS3's superior graphics capabilities to not anger 360 fanbois and also Microsoft.

You merely need to look at the many successful PS3 exclusives to clearly see its superior graphics. And yes the PS3 had many exclusives that were very good so the "too hard to code for" thing was mostly rhetoric by 360 fanbois.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 9:22:59 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah that's me, a Xbox 360 fanboi lol...


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Chaser on 8/4/2014 2:33:37 AM , Rating: 2
I wasn't saying that.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By StevoLincolnite on 8/1/2014 6:32:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also as history showed, the potential power of the PS3 was never realized. Games didn't look any better than the Xbox because the PS3 was so difficult for game developers to work with.


Agreed.

Not only that, but people really thought the Cell processor was a "Super computer in a chip".
In the end, not only was the Cell processor difficult to program for, it also wasn't good at integer or double precision floating point.
Developers had to resort to using iterative refinement as much as possible to eek out enough performance.
Still, people fell for Sony's marketing hype, proof was eventually shown in the games.

In the end, games like the last of us and uncharted weren't really graphically superior to the likes of Halo 4, certainly not multiple times better that you would expect when looking at the paper specifications.

Most modern PC games will generally make both exclusives look like pong in comparison.

As for the graphics processors themselves... The Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 used high-end graphics hardware relative to the Radeon x1950 and Geforce 7950 at the time.
In the PS3's case it had the same amount of Pixel and Vertex Shaders, Texture mapping units as the Geforce 7950, but half the Render output Pipelines and with differing clockspeeds too.

One thing to keep in mind however is that just before those consoles launched... nVidia released the Geforce 8000 series.

This time round however, Microsoft and Sony have gone with mid-range, 2 year old pieces of graphics hardware, that is really only passable for 1080P gaming at "high settings" on more demanding games.

Eventually, developers will wish to increase graphical fidelity, they will need to make sacrifices in one area to bolster another, the first to go will probably end up being resolution and/or framerate, which has already happened with a few titles already.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By corduroygt on 8/1/2014 1:56:08 PM , Rating: 2
Convenience matters, so does big budget exclusives. That's why PC is not a real choice for most people.

Also Xbox having the better content and games is purely subjective and in your opinion. Both consoles have comparable exclusives.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By FITCamaro on 8/1/2014 3:19:26 PM , Rating: 2
Still can't play Watch Dogs on my PC because of a sound bug with DD Live! that makes my headset not work.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 2:13:15 PM , Rating: 2
"The only sane solution is to build a gaming PC."

You do realize that consoles and PC's aren't the same market right?


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Arkive on 8/1/14, Rating: 0
RE: Cheap Bastards
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 3:07:04 PM , Rating: 2
To some. Not everyone can build a PC, and not everyone that can build a PC wants to deal with the downside of gaming on it. Consoles are cheap and easy and offer a consistent and funner experience with no hassle.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 3:43:36 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I love my gaming rig, but here's a few issues that I've come across that you DON'T typically see from consoles.

1. System instability from defective RAM corrupting my Windows Install and causing multiple system restores in the course of diagnosing the problem.

2. Bugs! Both in games and Windows itself.

3. Driver issues, oh joy.

4. The general endless monotony of updating software, checking for updates, and doing Windows Updates.

4. And last but not least, Windows 8 itself

And this is, of course, excluding the actual building of the machine itself. Which I personally enjoy immensely, but can understand how the average person doesn't want to deal with it.

I can easily see why someone would just prefer paying $400 for a self-contained, ready to go, hassle free gaming console.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By inighthawki on 8/1/2014 4:38:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
1. System instability from defective RAM corrupting my Windows Install and causing multiple system restores in the course of diagnosing the problem.

I'd really love to know how you managed to corrupt your Windows install from defective RAM :S

quote:
4. And last but not least, Windows 8 itself

I guess the previous #4 didn't count? :)


RE: Cheap Bastards
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 5:33:18 PM , Rating: 3
4 is a great #. Possibly the greatest of all #'s and it deserves to be counted twice. Maybe even four times.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 5:42:02 PM , Rating: 2
The PS5 is going to confuse the hell out of him.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 5:42:40 PM , Rating: 4
That would be the PS4 v2


RE: Cheap Bastards
By inighthawki on 8/1/2014 5:50:09 PM , Rating: 2
lol, I got a pretty good chuckle from that one. Thank you.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 8:01:17 PM , Rating: 2
System instability from RAM errors can absolutely corrupt an OS. Or any other file for that matter.

It's called Windows ASLR (Address Space Randomization). In layman's terms ASLR will take chunks of the operating system code and randomly plop them in different locations in RAM every time you boot. What this means is that malware that is used to finding certain system files at the same location in RAM will not have any luck. It’s a nice little security feature that is also used in other operating systems.

HOWEVER if when a memory stick is bad, it isn’t the entire module that’s kaput – it may be one little teeny cell that might even cause a single bit error in a huge chunk of data. That’s enough to cause a blue screen, though, if the bit is “in the right place at the right time”. When your computer with bad RAM boots, sometimes it might work fine, and sometimes it might not… It could depend on if a key system file is being written to the portion of the RAM stick that has the bad bit. It could also depend on if some service for, say, your 3rd-party firewall hits the bad part of the RAM, or tries to access a system file that is on the bad portion of the faulty memory stick.

Especially when overclocking, which DUH, anyone with a serious "Gaming Pc" would and should be doing.

And just for the record, I have NO freaking clue what Mitch is talking about. I'm an AVID Windows user and PC gamer, but somehow he literally took my entire post here to be some "bash" on Windows and the PC. This is ridiculous!

The context of my argument was how console gaming is more convenient and simple for most people than the PC.

WTF is going on here? Is the PC Master Race eating it's own if it doesn't troll consoles and it's users or something? I'm very clearly NOT being anti Microsoft or PC here....just...insanity.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By inighthawki on 8/1/2014 9:49:14 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe I misinterpreted. I'm well aware that memory corruption can occur and cause a BSOD. Heck your ram can get hit by a cosmic ray and flip a bit :)

What I thought you meant, though, was that it actually corrupted your install, such that you needed to reinstall windows completely because it would not boot. I've never heard of such a thing due to bad ram. I guess maybe if it was during a windows update or something, and gives you a frankenbuild of new/old binaries...


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/2/2014 8:20:20 AM , Rating: 1
Well up to this point, I haven't "heard" of it either. It was quite frustrating to diagnose because it presented itself as so many potentially different issues.

But generally speaking the whole OS and all your programs pass through RAM at some point. If there's data corruption happening, the OS is going to be affected.

The machine seemed fine most of the time. Then I would get a random BSOD reboot, and Windows would just be unable to restart. It would try three times, then go to the automatic repair screen. SO I had to do a system restore just to get Windows to boot.

What's so hard to believe about that? Since G.Skill sent me a replacement kit (F3-12800CL8-4GBXM) I've had zero problems and my Prime 95 torture tests have gone for 24+ hours where before my system was crashing after 20 minutes.

OH and now I can actually run XMP like you should. Previous kit was so unstable I had to turn it off just to keep the machine booted up.

I'm not saying I'm the greatest system builder ever, but I think I've definitively proven I had bad RAM.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By inighthawki on 8/2/2014 3:10:44 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah that's strange. Never heard of that. You must've hit a BSOD at a conditon where it was writing to disk (Maybe writing to the registry and corrupted the registry hive?)

But yeah, having bad RAM always sucks. Luckily it's one of the easier issues to diagnose - Swap them out one at a time until the issue goes away. Unless of course you're super unlucky and got 2+ bad sticks :)


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Chaser on 8/4/2014 1:55:58 PM , Rating: 2
Wow. About 50 sentences and 7 paragraphs that hasn't melt down the entire Windows 8 installed PC market.

I'd better check my Windows 8.1 PC to see if I have this. well good news. I'm still typing.

But I agree that many want a gaming device to forgo the complications of a Windows PC. Although many "gamers" want to do more than to just sit in front of a screen and mash controller buttons for an hour or more.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By stoogenadoot on 8/4/2014 3:13:47 PM , Rating: 2
It seems pretty clear that he was talking about things that can possibly go wrong with a gaming PC, not that every system has those issues. That is the thing with PC's - there are thousands of different components from different vendors.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 5:09:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
1. System instability from defective RAM corrupting my Windows Install and causing multiple system restores in the course of diagnosing the problem.

And how is that Windows Fault you have faulty ram but are unable to figure that out? Some bios have memory tests built in or its a free auto boot test. Why you would trust an OS install after discovering bad ram is also a mystery.

quote:
2. Bugs! Both in games and Windows itself.

Windows Update? Steam Update? Both automatic but I think You probably either messed up Audio or Video driver install and not Windows.

quote:
3. Driver issues, oh joy.

Again I think you probably either messed up Audio or Video driver install and not Windows.

quote:
4. The general endless monotony of updating software, checking for updates, and doing Windows Updates.

Please learn how to use Windows Update and Steam Update. Both of which are automatic for simpler folk who do not excel at technology.

quote:
4. And last but not least, Windows 8 itself - See more at: http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=36322...

Your link went nowhere and Windows 8 can be upgraded to Windows 8.1 but dont you use Windows 7 or chromebook?

I think you just epically failed at a anti Microsoft post and if that was not your intention you clearly indicated your not competent at using a Windows PC. Please buy an Apple or Chromebook and leave Windows to those less technically handicapped.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 5:21:15 PM , Rating: 2
I think you just epically failed at seeing the point once again. The point was gaming is just easy on a console. He wasn't even specifically talking about MS, other than it's the best gaming PC OS. It wasnt even an "MS vs. Console", it was a"Gaming PC vs. console" debate.

The guy just built an MS Windows 8 gaming rig and you are still having him as some anti-MS zealot in your mind. It's ALL in your mind.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 5:39:59 PM , Rating: 1
I realize I just insulted your Android girlfriend. Your response if like cockwork.

He is an Anti-MS Zealot to the core. Im darn positive hes making crap up as usual or hes completely incompetent at computers.

Really who has Windows problems with gaming? If one does crop up its related to video driver and AMD/NVIDIA release a new driver that solves it. If its game related well steams auto updates take care of that. If its hardware its not Windows. Hes making extremely lame excuses so bad that they have to be made up.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 5:41:42 PM , Rating: 2

The point
---------
0 < Your head


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 5:55:25 PM , Rating: 1
I guess that makes you the winner in your mind. Good for you.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 6:04:06 PM , Rating: 2
In my mind? Winner?

That is the thing you keep missing. It's all in your mind. There is no winner or loser here, it's just people talkigna botu Console vs. PC.

Now, Pay attention, because this part is key. This is a console or PC gaming thread nd somehow, you took things out of context and you feel it's about MS because you are a raving zealot. It has nothing to do with MS, other than the fact that MS is clearly the best OS for PC gaming.

How can you not see that?

On top of it, you are even attacking a guy who just said he built a W8 gaming rig and you are calling him an anti MS zealot.

How can you not see that?


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Mitch101 on 8/1/14, Rating: 0
RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 8:03:30 PM , Rating: 1
No I did not. Fuck you, you goddamn psychopath!


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 8:18:51 PM , Rating: 2
You didn't "call me out" on anything except how radically clinically insane you are when it comes to Microsoft.

My post literally had ZERO to do with Microsoft. The same I said applies to ANY OS. But there's only ONE OS option for gaming, and that's Windows and everyone knows it.

You could fire up Google and find millions and millions of people with all of those issues, going back decades. Only a fanboi as big as you would pull the "oh you're just stupid" card when faced with it.

Issues come up with PC's, that's a fact. It doesn't mean the entire platform or OS sucks, sh*t just happens. I don't know what you're shoveling, but you seriously need to get a grip here.

You're an epic asshole, NO sane person would read my post and see the things you're seeing as such a huge threat or so offensive.

I wish you would finally quit, for real this time, and go make your own little "Reclaimer free" Daily Tech alternative you keep lying to yourself about. You and I would both be a lot happier.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 8:57:36 PM , Rating: 2
No, he didn't. You are just so insanely sensitive when it comes to MS that you cant have a logical conversation about anything when they are involved.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By inighthawki on 8/1/2014 9:51:10 PM , Rating: 2
As robably one of the most pro-Microsoft guys here, he didn't say anything anti-MS at all... This is purely a debate about the convenience of PC vs console for gaming. PCs have incredible value, and I'm one of the biggest proponents of PC gaming you'll ever meet, but even I know that consoles are just way more convenient.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By jnemesh on 8/1/2014 7:35:26 PM , Rating: 2
dude, you are an asshole, and I am calling you on it!


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 7:48:28 PM , Rating: 1
You get your first pube or something?


RE: Cheap Bastards
By retrospooty on 8/1/2014 8:58:58 PM , Rating: 3
"Self awareness"... Bing it. I would say "Google it", but you would probably go off on another ridiculous tangent.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 7:51:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And how is that Windows Fault you have faulty ram but are unable to figure that out?


Uhhh of course it's not Windows fault. In your rush to defend all things MS, you're reading things that weren't there.

I had a faulty stick of RAM that was corrupting data. It's quite common for bad RAM to do this. Some of the data that got corrupted was critical system files for Windows and, upon reboot, Windows would be unable to startup until I performed a system repair.

This has NOTHING to do with being "anti-Microsoft" you nitwit. The RAM was replaced under warranty, and everything is fine.

The rest of your post is just more trolling. My post had NOTHING to do with being against Microsoft. It was about how gaming on the console is simply more convenient for the average person than a PC. How you read that and determined every single point was about being "anti Windows" is just incredibly telling of how you view everything as a radical fanboi.

Only #4 directly had to do with Windows, and it was in jest more than anything.

quote:
Please learn how to use Windows Update and Steam Update. Both of which are automatic for simpler folk who do not excel at technology.


Again you idiot, these are examples of things the AVERAGE person has to deal with. NOT ME. You cannot deny that constantly updating software isn't part of life with the PC. Drivers, software, security, patching games etc etc. And no, all of those things can't always be automatically done without SOME user input.

Honestly I can't tell if you're just trolling or really are this much of a colossal homer as*hole.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Mitch101 on 8/1/14, Rating: 0
RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/14, Rating: 0
RE: Cheap Bastards
By nikon133 on 8/1/2014 6:46:29 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, nah.

I build my PC carefully, select components from solid brands... and even if most are mid-range in price, I don't remember when was the last time I had hardware/stability problem.

Bugs. Sony has released few firmware updates to improve stability. Granted my only observed issue with PS4 was that my wireless headset didn't work correctly even after Sony added support for it, but it appears that problem has disappeared a few further firmware updates later.

Drivers, updates. I had two PS4 updates in the last week alone, and I could not go online before applying them. On PC at least, I am not forced to apply updates right away. Some of them at all.

Beside that, AMD software tells me when new driver is available, and update is only one click away. My Gamer X-Fi audio runs more than a year old driver. Everything else runs on automatic update schedule and happens without my interference.

Windows 8, LOL. One of major complains for PS4 at present is GUI, especially lack of any customizations. I really don't think that W8 Start Screen is that much worst than PS4 blue-with-wave GUI.

At the end, I do enjoy gaming on PS4, but not for any of your reasons. Firstly there are exclusives. Secondly, I work behind PC with 2 screens 8 hours a day; when I get home, it is nice change to jump in oversized beanbag and grab controller.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By FITCamaro on 8/1/2014 3:20:24 PM , Rating: 2
And almost twice the price. You can't build a system for $400 that plays games in 1080p. $600-700 yes.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Reclaimer77 on 8/1/2014 2:25:51 PM , Rating: 2
I did just build a gaming PC. I could have bought about three PS4's for what one decent gaming rig costs me. And I didn't even go with an SLI setup, could have went WAY further.

Consoles and PC's have their places. But building a gaming PC isn't a solution that works for everyone.


RE: Cheap Bastards
By Mitch101 on 8/1/2014 3:33:11 PM , Rating: 2
Reality is you need a PC in life and slapping in a $100.00 video card (After rebate) like a Radeon 7850 makes the PC faster than a PS4/XBone and slapping in two Radeon 7850's and you crush it. Im still running an AMD 965 with dual 7850's and I rarely play at 1920x1080 I play everything at 5760x1080p.

Irregardless Consoles do some things better than PC's but I still prefer my FPS on a PC. I love racing games on the console and the console is positioned in the living room much more friendly for groups than the PC. Each has their pluses and minuses.

I think if your about FPS or where you need a keyboard go with a PC. If you want a wider range go with a Console. If you can afford it get both.


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