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Print E-mail del.icio.us 21 comment(s) - last by Jack Ripoff.. on Aug 24 at 8:01 PM
Finally...

Dell and Lenovo are the first two companies to recently offer pre-installed open source Linux distribution on PCs and notebooks, but I highly doubt they will be the last manufacturers to take the plunge...

According to both Dell and Ubuntu, the customer response over Linux products has been "overwhelming."  Maybe it is due to Dell being the first to take a chance, or maybe Ubuntu's popularity is translating to better interest in Ubuntu pre-loaded on Dell products.  Although Lenovo and Novell SUSE aren't as popular as Dell and Ubuntu, I hope they see the same interest in their product line.

Considering the amount of rather lackluster announcements during LinuxWorld, PC manufacturers finally embracing Linux happened to be one of the bright points of the show.

"I think it is about time the PC manufacturers started showing us some love," one LinuxWorld exhibitor told me prior to the show floor opening.

I hope to see Hewlett-Packard offer something similar in the future, though I am not sure if the company is working on anything internally.  I tried to pry details away from HP public relations and engineers people, but no one wanted to confirm anything.

Acer said a few weeks ago that the company has not seen enough demand in the United Kingdom to offer products pre-loaded with Linux, but I am sure that will change over time.

Ubuntu representatives told me the deal with Dell isn't exclusive, so it is possible for Ubuntu to end up pre-loaded on HP or Acer products later down the road.

It appears the future is bright for the Linux operating system in the future.

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Vista
By ted61 on 8/18/2007 9:01:04 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder if the deal has consequences that we don't fully realize yet. Two weeks ago we bought new Compaq laptop that was so cheap it had to be subsidized by someone other than all of the junk programs on the desktop. I wonder if Microsoft gave Vista to Compaq to boost circulation.

I am not too sure of Vista as of now. Maybe it will grow on me but it seems like a modified knock off of Suse 10 with good drivers.




RE: Vista
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/20/2007 7:56:20 AM , Rating: 3
I find it closely resembles Fedora/Red Hat more than Suse but you have a valid point. In any case, I still prefer Vista over either one. From an IT Infrastructure standpoint Windows is still the only game in town for loading onto regular user's desktops. (See Remote Manageability, Software Compatability, and Support Costs) Linux costs more to support not due to any technical limitation but due to the fact that #1 users don't know how to use it, and #2 90% of the technical support teams and call centers don't know how to support it either.

Linux does not provide anything groundbreaking in comparison to Windows to justify shifting corporate desktop systems and the huge spike in support costs. As much as it costs to purchase and deploy Windows, we save money on the ease of use and support offered by Windows over Open Source alternatives.

Good try though guys.


RE: Vista
RE: Vista
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/21/2007 2:12:07 PM , Rating: 2
Yes. Except you arent looking at the entire support model. Your looking at the LVL 3 Engineers and the Level 2 SysAdmins. If they were the only guys doing support, no problem.

But let's go ahead and break down some deal breakers on Linux.

#1 Microsoft Office. Love it or hate it, there are no alternatives. (Open Office and Star Office are years behind)

#2 Regular everyday users. Most people are so stupid they have problems with powering up and logging in, forgetting passwords, and doing their job. I don't care how good an IT professional you are, the stupidity of normal users will defeat anything. No self respecting IT admin will switch a bunch of sheepish windows users to Linux (I'm sure as hell not switching over 9000 of them).

#3 Application support. I would have a hard time selling 150 different application teams to rebuild or buy new software so it works under Linux. Not to mention all the business units and their custom access databases they use for queries against the mainframes. Hell they were written by people who left the company and nobody knows how to duplicate the effort.

#4 Laptops. We are an 80% laptop environment at one company, most of your links by the way were geared towards Linux X terminals rather than Linux desktop computing. Thin clients are not an option for 8000 of the 9000 users.

#5 The helpedesk. The dreaded hateful helpdesk. The one filled with idiots that read from a book and half the time still cant get shit done correctly. No, no way in hell I would let them near Linux, the amount of shit you can screw up in Linux is massive if your blindly messing with stuff, and it would take me countless hours to figure out what the hell they did and fix it. No, I'm going to avoid this headache.

While your links make a good point about doing it on a small scale for X terminal computing (And that is all fine and dandy) X terminal computing using thin clients is not the norm in the industry. Far from it infact. No self respecting IT Engineer will switch over regular desktops to a Linux environment, the amount of backlash would be incredible, not to mention countless executives that now can't figure out how to use their computers and have absolutely no patience whatsoever would be calling for your resignation effective immediately.

I think you might have a point for small businesses that can afford to run everything inside of Linux. But Enterprise wide, no way in hell. The number of stupid users and impatient, unable to adapt managers, directors, and Vice President's make this a non-starter. If I tried to deploy this on a desktop level, I would be out of a job within a week.


RE: Vista
By The Jedi on 8/21/2007 9:11:43 PM , Rating: 2
He who eats of Linux dies if he is not Linux.


RE: Vista
By leexgx on 8/23/2007 2:18:52 AM , Rating: 2
you done your point so well be and i agree with all of it and its ture, be intresting if some can respond

takeing to long for linux to be used easly


RE: Vista
RE: Vista
By Christopher1 on 8/24/2007 12:39:46 AM , Rating: 2
Uh.... about the Openoffice and Staroffice being behind..... they are not behind Microsoft Office. I recently got a full version of Microsoft Office Home & Teacher (I believe that is the name) free from a friend who was switching from Office to OpenOffice.

Openoffice is much less resource hungry, opens faster, etc. etc. etc. The only thing that Office from Microsoft has Openoffice beat on is compatibility (everyone reads Office documents).


Bottom Line
By Ringold on 8/17/2007 11:51:30 PM , Rating: 2
Has the introduction of Ubuntu been enough to 'move the needle' for Dell in any sort of respectable way? Has there been any indication that it helped bring in new customers or just got people who might've bought Dell anyway opting for a different OS?

The above is all that matters really and if it has contributed to real growth then that might give us an idea of if we'll see HP add it to their options. "Overwhelming" was quoted in the article but that could mean anything from "We're amazed how it cannibalized other sales" to "Every linux geek in the Western world is buying Dell."




RE: Bottom Line
By Michael Hoffman on 8/18/2007 1:06:05 AM , Rating: 2
Ringold, although I was obviously unable to get specific sales numbers from Dell or Ubuntu, they both seemed to be pretty excited to be involved...

Something tells me that Dell is relatively pleased with the partnership. Along with expanding its product line for Ubuntu products, Dell also is beginning to sell pre-loaded Linux in Europe now... though Aussie and Kiwis are still left in limbo.

This blog -- http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/World-to... -- may help offer another insight into how apparently popular pre-loaded Linux is.


RE: Bottom Line
By Ringold on 8/18/2007 2:18:40 AM , Rating: 2
I wasn't trying to be critical, just curious; I thought perhaps they'd let investors know in a conference call or their quarterly report... but I guess a quick check of Yahoo Finance shows it's deliquent and apparently hasn't yet reported.

If it really is a big deal I expect they'll either say it outright, and how much so, or a savvy analyst will ask on a conference call -- at which point they'll answer honestly or back-pedal. If it's immaterial to earnings then it probably wont get noted, at which point we'll know this is much ado about nothing.

The link is interesting, but those posts it noted could easily be generated by linux partisans sending up a battlecry at various forums. I don't doubt 41k OSS fans can spontaneously appear when they prodded to do so. HP also states no demand in the UK, which you guys ran a story on if I recall.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/cor...

No mention of it from Q1, but thats no surprise.

Sorry if I sounded critical, just curious. I suppose we'll have to wait for them to report.


RE: Bottom Line
By mars777 on 8/18/2007 1:20:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't doubt 41k OSS fans can spontaneously appear when they prodded to do so


You are very wrong, i alone can make 20-30k participants come by sending an email to the members of our Croatian Linux association.

What could an US or Chinese Linux association do? Make come 2-3 million?


RE: Bottom Line
By mars777 on 8/18/2007 1:22:18 PM , Rating: 2
Ups just now i read i "don't doubt" - i thought i was replying on "I doubt".

My bad.


RE: Bottom Line
By Ringold on 8/18/2007 10:39:58 PM , Rating: 2
That's exactly what I suspected. Get four or five community leaders such as yourself to really plot something and suddenly the numbers become meaningless. Exactly the reason I'll wait for their next quarter's report to see if it made any real dent. Sound and fury is easy; actually bringing in new customers.. perhaps not so much.

But then we could be surprised too; Linux and hardware support arent yet something anybody really thinks of in unison, and having a place to buy a system that'll 100% assuredly work may provide value -- until everyone else does it, or until linux drivers support improves.


RE: Bottom Line
By carage on 8/24/2007 3:35:31 AM , Rating: 2
Dell also sells preloaded Linux in China...
It's called RedFlag Linux, I assume it is sponsored by the PRC government.


By Amiga500 on 8/18/2007 8:33:28 AM , Rating: 2
Similar to not offering customers the choice of Intel or AMD. They felt the need to cover their bases with Linux, and are surprised that it might actually have been an avenue worth exploring without the investor/lawsuit angle.




By Etsp on 8/18/2007 11:36:13 AM , Rating: 2
The underlying reason for their reluctance is the ability to provide official support for Linux on their platform.

If a customer calls in with a computer problem, 99.9% of the time it makes little difference whether they have an Intel or an Amd, other than say, a motherboard driver issue. With Linux, they need a completely new support team to handle this issue, which costs money, especially since you can't outsource tech support (overseas) without losing a lot of customer satisfaction.


By mars777 on 8/18/2007 1:25:29 PM , Rating: 2
OS support gets redirected to Microsoft or Ubuntu(Canonical) AFAIK.


By darkpaw on 8/20/2007 9:59:10 AM , Rating: 2
Windows OS support doesn't get redirected to MS. The reason OEM copies are cheaper is because the OEM is responsible for support and not MS. Either Dell does the support for Windows themselves or they farm it out to an independant contractor.

For Linux they did farm out the support instead of doing it in house, which makes sense. Its a lot easier then to farm it out then develop a whole new in house support solution.


By Ringold on 8/18/2007 1:06:33 PM , Rating: 3
In conjuction with etsp's explination.. Investor's typically aren't nearly that nasty. That said, if a CEO makes a string of poor decisions then they possibly could call for his resignation. Another angle that's becoming more in vogue seems to be activist investors buying up enough share to get themselves on the company board and then shaking things up in a positive way. Lawsuits are usually reserved for more criminal things..

But fearing investors a little is, of course, healthy.


more for corporate use
By johnsonx on 8/18/2007 2:10:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Although Lenovo and Novell SUSE aren't as popular as Dell and Ubuntu...


I think it's worth observing that Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop is far more 'corporate' than Ubuntu. Likewise, Lenovo (nee IBM) laptops are preferred in corporate circles over Dell.

To some extent I was surpised though when Dell chose Ubuntu over OpenSUSE or Fedora Core. Dell already had business relationships with both Novell and RedHat, so it seemed odd to me. However, I imagine that Dell took the pulse of their intended market, and decided the consumer-popular Ubuntu was the way to go.




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