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Acer and other PC makers lower forecasts for second half 2012 PC shipments

While many PC makers saw the coming of Windows 8 as an opportunity for growth and increased competition against Apple, those feelings are slowly fading.
 
Acer Inc., Quanta Computer Inc. and Compal Electronics Inc., three major PC makers, have all lost hope in Windows 8 being the savior of PC sales for the second half of fiscal year 2012. This opinion differs from those heard by the same PC makers earlier this year, who were happy to show off Windows 8 laptops, all-in-ones and ultrabooks at the Computex trade show in Taipei. Acer even said that Windows 8 PCs would bring growth to his company once again. 
 
But these opinions changed as PC makers see no customer enthusiasm for personal computers running the Windows 8 operating system. Another issue, according to analysts and the PC makers, is that Windows 8 laptops and ultrabooks will likely be much too expensive upon release. 
 
J.T. Wang, CEO of Acer, said he has grown unsure of the Windows 8 ecosystem. His company is lowering its expectations for PC sales upon Windows 8's release.
 
"Originally, we were expecting very high growth in the second half," said Wang. "We're still waiting for a sign of consumer enthusiasm."
 
Analysts are changing their sales forecasts as well, mainly due to the fact that some believe it'll take three to four financial quarters for consumers to get onboard with Windows 8. It won't take off right away. Rather, Microsoft will have to seek out developers for more applications in order to grab consumer interest.
 
While the PC turf isn't looking so hot, mobile devices may not be so disappointing. The price of touchscreens and tablets running Windows 8 may be an issue, especially because there are many cheaper alternatives, but consumers have shown greater enthusiasm for Microsoft's Surface tablet
 
Windows 8 has been a pretty controversial topic. The main issue seems to be the user interface, formerly called Metro. It features colorful tiles that represent different applications on the home screen. The change was a hopeful move to attract new users (perhaps those normally enticed by Apple's colorful and friendly-looking operating systems). However, Microsoft is looking to change the name of Metro after a recent discovery -- a German retailer called Metro AG threatened to sue. 
 
Windows 8 will be released to the public on October 26

Source: ETrade





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Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/21/2012 12:52:30 PM , Rating: 1
"Sounds like user aren't that enthusiastic about Windows 8"
I currently have Windows 8 installed on my computer and guess what - it's a big failure. I hate the way its interface is designed - they didn't even think of something original - they copied it from Office and the problem is that whenever you want to get things done, if you are quick, just like me, you end up clicking on the wrong button because they're too small and too close to each other.
Another thing is not being able to customize it properly, the same issue 7 has.
They screwed lot of things up - I wasn't even able to place a My Computer shortcut on the desktop - doing so from the Start menu is just IMPOSSIBLE. How idiot can you be in order not to allow a user to create a shortcut from the Start menu?
The options are very limited and to turn off my computer I had to become a scientific researcher - you won't believe the amount of bullshit(excuse my language) they put into Windows 8 to make it more difficult to use - they Turn off, restart, and log off options are hidden under a rather secret menu that is quite difficult to access - especially if you're running a dual screen set-up , like me.
You know what? I will skip this version of Windows and I hope Microsoft has the same fate EA games seems to have - that's when they fucking realize it's US who command things on OUR CASH. Who do they think they get their money from?
OUR POCKETS!
I hope Microsoft realizes they need to listen to the end-user (a.k.a. the customer, you idiots!) when it comes to a product designed for them, otherwise, prepare for a big failure in the market as people won't buy your bullshit - I would never buy 8 - not even if they paid me to do so - why?
The money goes to a company that doesn't give a damn about me - who do you think you are, Microsoft? Who?
Say what?
Windows Phone 7....no free upgrade to 7.5?
Have you ever thought about looking up the word "design" in a dictionary, fools?
What's going on with your design engineers?
What's going on with you Microsoft?
I hope it won't be too late you realize you'll end up being in free fall when customers will understand how you screw us!
Blocking us from making Windows boot directly to desktop?!
Are you crazy?! Screw you and your products then! WE, the customers who pay for your products, have the ultimate command on them - if I'm not right, then watch out...there are alternatives - by the way - I'm still running XP SP3 on a quad core, 16GB of RAM DDR3, and the 2GB HD6950...
Don't you think that if we buy more recent hardware we'll buy your OS too....screw you until you get stuff right.
BTW, word on the street is that your so originally called "Windows 8" will be as much of a "Vista 2.0" as it already seems to be...we will see how stupid your engineers can get - Einstein once said:
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity - and I'm not completely sure about the SECOND one.
Watch out - you're heading in a wrong direction - and you'll end up paid (instead of getting paid) for that. Keep that in mind.
Oh, and BTW, I think your UI could've also been called Carrefour, eBay, Amazon or so...so you can drop the Metro name and use one of those instead - you will definitely be successful like that!
Keep it up! XP was released in 2001 and you started work on it in the late '90s - it still rocks and a lot of computers still have XP as their main OS, just like my PC, on which I have XP,7 and your "OS" , Windows "8"....wasting my free disk space...
All you companies who don't care about your customers' opinions really deserve to burn in deep pain in order to understand who commands what - keep going like this, but don't run back crying to your mommy when your sales are unexpectedly low - you already know what the reason for that will be. I'm never going to buy Microsoft products - not even keyboards, mice or anything else - because this company thinks it's the boss in the industry when they aren't $h!t.
A lot of my friends think likewise...and it will become a common feeling and phenomenon among us, the end users...
Bing - a big fail
Windows Phone 7 - a big fail
Windows "8" - a big fail
You had better call Bill Gates and tell him to fire the current CEO for being incompetent and idiot, Microsoft - Steve Ballmer's place is somewhere in a hospital.
And don't forget - I hate Apple as a whole company - I USED TO BE as much of a crazy fan of Microsoft as I love computers - I am not that anymore...I now hate Microsoft for destroying its name and its products on a daily basis. :(




RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By cknobman on 8/21/2012 1:42:51 PM , Rating: 3
Pills are goood. Pills are good.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By amanojaku on 8/21/2012 3:20:26 PM , Rating: 3
Having read the post in its entirety, it's clear that the OP doesn't need pills. He needs a billy goat, cuz he's trollin'.

He's complaining about the Start Menu in Windows 8. THERE IS NO START MENU!!! And, on the off chance that he meant Windows 7, his statement is false. I just opened my Start Menu, click-and-dragged "Computer" to the desktop, and got a link. The wall of text often hides BS.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By Cypherdude1 on 8/21/2012 9:00:36 PM , Rating: 2
The OP meant Windows 8 about the Computer link. Until March, 2011, I was using a 10 year old Windows XP SP3 system. I assembled the hardware myself in 2001. It has an AMD Thunderbird 1400 MHz, that's a single core BTW, and 1 GB DDR ECC RAM. It also has Win98SE . Both O/S's still work fine with no problems.

Last year I built a completely new Windows 7 64 bit system and there are some things I don't like about it:
Explorer: I don't like how M$ removed the amount of space a folder uses from the status bar. It's really irritating. The only way you can tell how much a folder uses is to right-click - properties. If anyone knows a tweak which can put it back please LMK.

Explorer: I don't like how M$ removed the button toolbar just below the menu. Again, if anyone knows a tweak which can put it back please LMK.

Explorer: I don't like how the "search" feature, or what's left of it, works. M$ completely removed the search function from 7. 7's search function is virtually nonexistent. M$'s Explorer search function is so poor, I often use Nirsoft's SearchMyFiles instead.

Explorer: I don't like how when you sort by file modified dates descending, the folders go to the bottom of the list. This is yet another irritating change.

It appears the new Windows 8 interface will take some getting used to. Either that or users will hate it. Today, and this is new, Microsoft does have a tendency to jam features people don't want down their throats. I think this is coming from billionaire Steve Ballmer. Microsoft has a monopoly and, IMHO, Steve Ballmer thinks he can do whatever he pleases.

Still, I think Windows 8 will do better for tablets, not desktops or laptops. I think that's what Win8 is meant for. A tablet with a $220 256GB mSATA SSD should pair very well with Win8.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0085J17UA

If someone were to make a high-end tablet with the following features, it could almost replace your desktop or laptop:
Windows 8
10" or 13" screen
Quad-core CPU
8 GB RAM
256 GB mSATA SSD
4 speakers in the back, similar to the Lenovo S2109:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0089SZ8PM
USB 3.0
SD slot
Docking station port
10 MP camera
micro HDMI

Someday they'll have tablets where their screens can fold in half. This will allow for much larger screen space. However, I think a 13" or even a 15" conventional screen is still manageable.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By someguy123 on 8/22/2012 1:44:45 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Explorer: I don't like how M$ removed the amount of space a folder uses from the status bar. It's really irritating. The only way you can tell how much a folder uses is to right-click - properties. If anyone knows a tweak which can put it back please LMK.


Just hover your mouse over the folder.

quote:
• Explorer: I don't like how M$ removed the button toolbar just below the menu. Again, if anyone knows a tweak which can put it back please LMK.


Don't think this can be done without registry tweaks....but why? It takes so much more effort than the copy paste hotkeys or even simply right clicking.

quote:
• Explorer: I don't like how the "search" feature, or what's left of it, works. M$ completely removed the search function from 7. 7's search function is virtually nonexistent. M$'s Explorer search function is so poor, I often use Nirsoft's SearchMyFiles instead.


I don't even understand this one. Windows indexing is still there and they added in program search to the start menu. They didn't remove the search function.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By daar on 8/23/2012 1:41:50 AM , Rating: 2
I've had issues with Win7 indexing, it feels as if certain files do not get indexed and when I search a folder after a few weeks, fully knowing the file is there, it won't show up. I've never touched the settings and my copy of Windows is up to date so not sure what's up.

That still, while there were other small annoyances, I've been happy with Win7 and generally always upgraded to the newest OS. Having heard of issues described by some friends, this might be the first OS I skip.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By falqon on 8/21/2012 1:49:08 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
I'm still running XP SP3 on a quad core, 16GB of RAM DDR3, and the 2GB HD6950...


You sir, are not very bright.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By ritualm on 8/21/2012 2:33:32 PM , Rating: 2
Contrary to what you think, XP remains in widespread use in corporate environments.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By headbox on 8/21/2012 2:41:32 PM , Rating: 2
very true- my wife's work just gave her a new Dell with Core i7, 4 GB RAM... and Windows XP. And she develops medical records software for the largest hospital in the state.


By muhahaaha on 8/22/2012 2:29:19 AM , Rating: 2
Tell us the name of the company please, because I don't want my medical records going public. No one needs to know that I smoke crack on a daily tech basis!


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By amanojaku on 8/21/2012 2:57:34 PM , Rating: 5
You're missing the point.
quote:
I'm still running XP SP3 on a quad core, 16GB of RAM DDR3, and the 2GB HD6950...
XP 32-bit doesn't use more than 4GiB of RAM. Unless this guy is running 64-bit Pro, has the appropriate drivers, and the right software, he's wasting hardware. And I'm pretty sure he's running 32-bit, because he said he's got SP3. There is no SP3 for 64-bit Pro.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By xti on 8/21/2012 3:05:25 PM , Rating: 2
epic


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By woofersus on 8/21/2012 3:06:34 PM , Rating: 3
Not to mention horrible driver support for XP x64.

Also with a that video card, (2GB VRAM) hardware address space reservations mean his system is probably only seeing around 1.5GB.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By Schmide on 8/21/2012 3:34:16 PM , Rating: 2
Not true. Video ram has a very small window and would probably not exceed 512mb. The 2gb is still addressable through banked access.

32bit programs on all platforms (xp, xp64 7, 7x64, etc) see similar environments, the biggest difference is x64 bit os(s) can optimize a lot of the buffers out of the 32bit address space. The 32bit environment is still limited, even in a 64 bit os.

PS you're posting from a 32bit environment.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By woofersus on 8/21/2012 4:15:04 PM , Rating: 2
I stand corrected on the address space requirements of the video card.

I realize that the 32-bit version of firefox I'm using is limited, although my OS is definitely of the 64-bit variety, so it is making use of all of my RAM. Lots of software is still 32-bit only, so that should be no surprise. Of course if my firefox session were running up against the 32-bit memory address space limitations, that would be an indication that I have bigger problems. ;)

That's not the only issue, though. Regardless of xp's ability to recognize the memory, only 2GB is designated for user space. Without the registry hack xp won't utilize more then 2GB for actually running the OS.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By lexluthermiester on 8/24/2012 2:10:48 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Without the registry hack xp won't utilize more then 2GB for actually running the OS.


Actually, that not correct. Ram is allocated on a per-instance basis[IE a per-executable basis]. So each executable can be allocated 2GB of RAM. Though the XP system exe's don't need that much to do it's job, the collective group of system executables could, in real world, take up more than 2GB of system ram, and without hacks.

And FYI, I have seen a 48bit memory manager running in WinXP that can recognize and use more than 4GB of system ram. It was an experiment that was seemingly successful. Not sure how it was made or implemented. But it seemed stable. This kinda proved to me that all of this "32bit 4GB limit" is a load of crap. MS just wanted to push more $h!t we don't need or want.

I've been forcing myself to try out Win8. And with each passing day I grow more weary of it. WinME could be tweaked to work right and stable. Vista was the same, but was still a resource hog. Win8 is not as pliable. On the mobile front, it may find success. But on the Desktop front, my guess is that it will be a disaster. Even if they gave it to me for free, I wouldn't use it. I'm sticking with WinXP and Win7.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 1:46:34 PM , Rating: 2
AMEN TO THAT!


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 1:45:18 PM , Rating: 2
Look, I'm running XP x64 right now.
I'm using 8.07GB of RAM (a bit more than 50% of the total amount I have).
I have Firefox opened with a ton of tabs, Rockemelt, Chrome, folders , Photoshop, PowerISO, Winamp...etc.
I see Chrome alone using about 4.9GB of RAM after all tabs are loaded.
Yes, 4.9GB worth of RAM - that's why I have:
Chrome, Firefox,Rocketmelt,Maxthon,Opera. Because of the tabs.
So I see no issue with software using my RAM like that - as long as the RAM is there, the software can use it - please remember that software like Chrome actually use a process for each tab you open - I doubt you can make a Google Chrome tab use more than 4GB anyway....so if Chrome takes up 4.9GB of RAM alone, it's because there are a ton of tabs that take up RAM and if you put everything together...that's the amount of RAM Chrome, as a program, uses when it's run.


By TheJian on 9/7/2012 2:07:49 PM , Rating: 2
wrong...All cards supported, nics, vids (nvidia/amd update at the same time 32&64 drivers), creative Audigy 1-4, etc. While I don't have xfi in any family members PC, I'm guessing drivers are there for those too (if not under x64, then under server2003 x64 versions which work fine in almost ALL cases).

Prove what you say. I can't find anything in my house or any relatives house (all running 64 xp pro - some dualboot win7's) that are not supported with updated drivers. Of course I do check before I buy something, but I can always go into win7 when the day comes I purchase something that doesn't have xp64 drivers. But I still can't find that. :)


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By SPOOFE on 8/21/2012 3:19:43 PM , Rating: 2
That's the sort of thing that really makes his horrifically formatted rant seem like a reasonable source of accurate information! I totally trust his opinion on all matters computer.


By DJ Brandon on 8/21/2012 6:50:32 PM , Rating: 3
Actually it's more like 3.3/3.4 at max


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By DJ Brandon on 8/21/2012 7:00:33 PM , Rating: 2
I so got you beat.....

I am running a Windows ME SP1 w/
16 GB DDR3 Ram
3rd Gen Core i7 2.2 Ghz
8 Terabyte Solid State drive
USB 4.0


By Mitch101 on 8/21/2012 8:09:40 PM , Rating: 2
Im running Microsoft BOB.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 1:56:10 PM , Rating: 2
You got yourself beat, my friend...

When software has support for an OS and when alternatives aren't that great, I choose the best option for me.
So go ahead and brag about how you run a 4TH generation Core i9 9,8GHz deca-core CPU paired with a 9 exabyte single platter HDD connected via SATA 15 and running Windows ME SP0.1 ...
Believe it or not, my system is NOTHING to brag about - if you're a DailyTech reader, if you ever looked for benchmark results and all that...you'd know AMD is far from being awesome with their latest and greatest.
There are systems out there that really deserve to be called "gaming machines" or "extremely powerful computers"...but don't look at my computer like that....because it's nothing out of this world.Honestly - if I had a latest gen i7,SSDs in RAID0, 9TB of HDD space, quad-blu ray burners, 8x24" LED screens, quad-CFX HD7970(or quad-SLI for the GTX680) and stuff like that....maybe I would've had a right to brag about my computer being powerful. May I remind you my CPU was release 3 light years ago?
3 years is a lot when it comes to technology...


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 1:30:25 PM , Rating: 2
It seems you are the one missing the point here, amanojaku.
I AM RUNNING Windows XP X64/64-bit Service Pack 3 - I can play GTA IV(which only runs on XP SP3 and no other version of XP, btw).
There is a hack in the registry that allows you to make XP look like SP3 although it's still SP2.
Read some documents before commenting - because you're missing the point.


By TheJian on 9/7/2012 2:02:42 PM , Rating: 2
I hope that was just a mistake on his part...LOL. No sp3 for x64, despite it being my favorite OS for actually getting something done.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By Uncle on 8/21/2012 2:44:19 PM , Rating: 1
Its OK as long as he's not connected to the net except for gaming , and if he is , he doesn't go where he shouldn't. So its strictly a gaming machine, kudos for him. I wouldn't doubt he gets a few frames more then you running a newer OS. Its a tough call.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 2:03:04 PM , Rating: 2
Uncle,

I dual boot XP SP3 x64 AND 7 x64.(oh, I forgot - I formatted the Windows 7 partition to put Windows 8 on it so I've got XP and 8). And I know there can be a ton of exploits for XP that AV and Anti-Malware software won't be able to deal with...I've got avast! paired with Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware and I can say I'm pretty happy from a security standpoint although I could also give Kaspersky Internet Security another try too...
I'll reinstall 7 x64 and dual boot like that...like some manufacturers said "we'll skip Windows 8"...right now I'm 150% sure I will do that too (unless it will be here to stay just like XP was - or actually still is...)...but since M$ is so hungry for money - I doubt Windows 8 will be around for more than 4 years or so - but again...who knows...


By TheJian on 9/7/2012 2:18:36 PM , Rating: 2
Been connected on xp64 since the day it came out...

Updates come weekly/monthly just like win7 :) Corp anyway and will continue to do so all through 2014 (7/2014 I think? if memory serves)
You haven't heard of virus protection, firewalls or routers? I have the same protection you do including updated os patches. Who's not running corp xp? Even out of date, threatfire w/comodo suite and a router is all anyone needs. I'm a little miffed at threatfire for being incompatible with Daemontools but other than that this setup is great, albeit changing to alcohol for mounting images. No loss. I use imgburn etc for burning anyway. Zonealarm etc can be subbed for Comodo. I haven't had a virus in my entire life, well we're not talking colds/flus right?


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By JediJeb on 8/21/2012 2:48:49 PM , Rating: 2
My main box is still an AthlonXP2400M with 1.5GB with a RadeonX700 running XP. Does all I need it to do, why upgrade?


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By Uncle on 8/21/2012 3:01:38 PM , Rating: 2
Said that years ago, can the new machine make me type any faster.:)


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By RU482 on 8/21/2012 4:41:45 PM , Rating: 2
funny what some swollen capacitors will do to a statement like this


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By bupkus on 8/22/2012 6:32:08 AM , Rating: 2
I wax nostalgic.


By TheJian on 9/7/2012 2:00:35 PM , Rating: 2
Umm...I have a dual boot running x64 XP Pro. See's all my mem, has all current drivers (get hit every month from my radeon 5850 updates from AMD), nic, wireless edimax, Creative Audigy4 etc. Nothing in my pc isn't supported by drivers in XP64. Meaning not that MS default crap. Actual drivers from the device maker supporting xp64. I've yet to run into something I can't run in xp64, though I default a lot to win7 x64 now just to pass the mcts next week or two (for giggles). I think many companies will now be planning win7 upgrades since they have had a good look at Win8 and will now realize they need to pass on this OS, so 7 will get more popular for anyone thinking Win8 would be their next move from XP. Not now. XP to Win7 because 8 just sucks for desktops/laptops.

As the other poster said, XP is running in a good 1/2 or more of the companies out there (I'd say more like 60+% but that's a guess based on last I checked being 70+ - I'm assuming some improvement). They see no point in win7 with a decent IT dept there is no need. NO training updates for your entire workforce either. Win8 will bomb on all but tables/phones (which oddly...LOL...Is what it's built for). Updates will be done through mid 2014 on xp in enterprise also. If companies don't freak again at that point and MS extends support even longer. Even in companies where win7 is in use, applocker, bitlocker etc are not usually used. Libraries just confuse users, hide data from techs etc (not as easy to get data that's all over the place). Win7 just ends up being a whole lot of training for everyone for, well...not much. It's not faster and takes more resources (jeez, Explorer is SLOW compared to xp, especially over networks), which is pretty much the only inspiration for companies to upgrade to ANY new os these days. Pretty doesn't cut it, FUNCTIONALITY does.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By BZDTemp on 8/21/2012 2:05:35 PM , Rating: 4
Here is a hint "ALT-F4".

I give you there are issues with Win8 but it is very far from being as bad as you like.

PS. I have a Computer icon on my desktop and it was easy to put there.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 2:08:02 PM , Rating: 2
Did you put "Computer" on your desktop...or is it a shortcut?
If it's a shortcut, right clicking on it and going to properties won't show you the System Properties window. And that's extremely frustrating.

"Here is a hint "ALT+F4"" - I knew that - but ARE YOU SERIOUS?
You mean WE'VE COME TO A POINT WHERE I NEED A COMBINATION OF KEYS JUST TO MAKE THE START SCREEN DISAPPEAR? JESUS CHRIST!
ESCape WAS THE MOST OBVIOUS CHOICE - but since it's Microsoft...their choices seem to be far from obvious lately so...
You may argue that ESC is used to go back from a submenu to the previous one - they could've used BACKSPACE for that, if that's the case. So still...in my opinion, it was a hell of a stupid choice. Being idiot at Microsoft is easier than ever now, though...


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By woofersus on 8/21/2012 2:58:06 PM , Rating: 5
Quite a rant, but not a lot of true things, unfortunately. AFAIK, you can customize desktop icons in Windows 8 the exact same way you could in Windows 7. (Which is not all that different from how it was done in XP) Right-click the desktop, select personalize, click "change desktop icons." Or for left finger only folks, open the control panel and select customization.

I suppose you get a pass for not knowing the ins-and-outs of the new start screen, but I'm not even using it and I figured out answers to your complaints in less than 5 minutes.

http://bit.ly/TSqmQk (choose the third link)

and

http://bit.ly/TSr0gI (that one was even easier, and if you weren't aware of the charms bar yet, you probably shouldn't be trying pre-release software)

I agree there should be a tutorial of some kind on retail release, but come on.

Also, for the record all windows phone upgrades are free, and wp7 phones got wp7.5 like a year ago. And they'll also get wp7.8. What other system is offering more than two major upgrades along with one minor update AND various bug fixes for phones that are up to 2 years old? My Razr surely isn't getting Jelly Bean.

Good luck wasting 14GB of your ram with windows xp.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 1:39:32 PM , Rating: 3
Look what -"pinning computer to windows 8 start screen" .
I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE "SHOW MY COMPUTER ON THE DESKTOP" OPTION ON THE START SCREEN.
I was talking about taking "Computer" from Start screen and putting it on the desktop. No, I don't want a shortcut to that. Why? Because if you want to go to Computer->Properties you can't do it by right click on the icon and selecting properties....got that?
Wasting 14GB of RAM in XP? You've got to be kidding me!
It's quite obvious you've never used software like Pinnacle Studio, Sony Vegas or anything similar - rendering a video into RAM can take up what you said I was wasting....so you should look for info first, instead of posting bs.

"I agree there should be a tutorial of some kind on retail release, but come on."
You're not being serious - definitely not -WINDOWS NEEDS TO BE INTUITIVE - EVEN IF THERE WAS A TUTORIAL COMING WITH THE RETAIL RELEASE , I WOULDN'T READ IT! An OS needs to be intuitive - it's not like a new game on the market!(even those are required to have an intuitive menu, otherwise they get lower scores in reviews....come on now!


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By damianrobertjones on 8/21/2012 3:15:47 PM , Rating: 3
"they copied it from office" - I stopped reading right there. Have you ever launched Windows Media Center?

p.s. I've also got Win 8 on my desktop and have no issues


By robinthakur on 8/23/2012 7:01:59 AM , Rating: 2
I've also got it on my desktop and don't really like the new look (that's all it is really) or the way it deals with multiple displays, which really makes the hot corners feature a chore. I think a great deal of this could be sorted out if MS let you choose profiles when you install it to say that the computer you are installing it on is a desktop rather than a tablet and then optimise things based on this, similar to Media Centre.

Without it, too many things are chores like getting to control panel or the way that it tries to multi task tiles in the top left corner as well as in the task bar on the desktop (seperately of course...) and also the way the option to switch off the computer is a chore to get to (Hover top right, hover down carefully without flicking to the other monitor, click settings, click power, hover carefully up to sleep/shutdown) You might be able to place a tile on the Start screen to do this, but haven't tried yet.

There are things I like like still effectively having the start menu in the bottom left corner, but if it makes life more difficult, then I'm going to find alternatives, like Mountain Lion, which works in a way in which I'm reasonably familiar. As I develop in an MS environment on a VM, which can live on any platform, the OS is not all that important as long as it has a version of MS Office and I can use all my regular programs, which I can. It also feels a lot more cohesive reficned and less schizophrenic than the MS option, regardless of its swishy fisherprice coloured start screen.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 2:13:21 PM , Rating: 1
Well, you can keep on reading, my friend...

"Have you ever launched Windows Media Center?"

I was talking about the Explorer(oh, sorry Metro AG!) interface - not about the Startscreen!
It's quite obvious the startscreen interface and the office one are far from being "alike", isn't it?

The startscreen interface is indeed, similar to Media Center - of course I used Media Center in both XP MCE '05 and Se7en.
Maybe you have no issues because you can get used to changes more quickly - I don't usually have a problem with that - it's just that I don't usually allow companies to throw shit at me the way they want to and then make me eat it because they're "big". If a company is "big" it's because we(the customers who buy their software) have made it like that...so it's still us who can throw a company to hell, just like it happened with EA...


By damianrobertjones on 8/21/2012 3:17:01 PM , Rating: 2
p.s. winkey+I - makes things easy


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By DT_Reader on 8/21/2012 3:45:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I hope Microsoft realizes they need to listen to the end-user (a.k.a. the customer, you idiots!)

I hope you realize that Microsoft's customers are Dell, HP, Acer, etc. - not you or me. They listen to their customers, they don't listen to you or me.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 2:19:02 PM , Rating: 1
I'm sorry that I have to see myself forced to accept your statement......I just wish all Microsoft customers would go against Windows 8 - it would still be a big issue for Microsoft - even if they rely on Dell&Alienware, HP, Sony....etc.
But hey...people who buy computers that come with a pre-installed Windows installation are forced to buy Windows 8 because they want a new computer although it's not obvious whether they want 7 or 8....OOOOOH....wait....prepare to see the same thing that happened with the fucking Vista - you buy a computer that comes with a pre-installed version of Vista and if you wanted to downgrade(which was actually an upgrade,btw) to XP , YOU HAD TO PAY FOR IT(the 2nd time...).
That's what may make people go with 8 instead of 7 - the fact that they'll have to pay a ton of cash to go with 7 instead of 8 - yet - by going from 7 to 8 you only have to pay about $15 or so...so imagine the HARD WORK those M$ engineers had to do to bring up a BS like Windows "8".


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By The Saxophonist on 8/21/12, Rating: -1
By Helbore on 8/21/2012 4:46:36 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see a pattern because that list is bullshit.

1. Windows 2000 was in no way a fail. It was a fantastic improvement on...

2. Windows NT4 (and the other OSes in the NT series). 2000 doesn't follow on from Win 98, it follows NT4. Me follows 98 in the DOS-based 9x series.

3. XP was generally considered atrocious when it first came out. It took two service packs before it became the OS that is so well-known today.

Where are the other OSes in your timeline? Oh right, if you add them in it ruins the pattern.


By Helbore on 8/21/2012 4:46:42 PM , Rating: 1
I don't see a pattern because that list is bullshit.

1. Windows 2000 was in no way a fail. It was a fantastic improvement on...

2. Windows NT4 (and the other OSes in the NT series). 2000 doesn't follow on from Win 98, it follows NT4. Me follows 98 in the DOS-based 9x series.

3. XP was generally considered atrocious when it first came out. It took two service packs before it became the OS that is so well-known today.

Where are the other OSes in your timeline? Oh right, if you add them in it ruins the pattern.


By dgingerich on 8/21/2012 5:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
I'd call Win Me a more epic fail than Vista or 8, and Vista is far worse than Win 8. If someone comes out with a 3rd party interface for Win 8, it could potentially be a good OS, since the performance is supposed to be even better than Win 7.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 2:26:22 PM , Rating: 1
You're perfectly right.
Let's hope they get things right with the next version of Windows that will be ...oh...it's quite obvious Windows 9 -how original!
Like they say...after an EPIC FAIL...it's easier to get things done the right way and if you're even more motivated...you may actually come up with an EPIC WIN instead....let's keep our fingers crossed....although it's far too soon - Microsoft is dumping PC users all around the world because of those tablets and the touchscreens - although the majority of PC users don't have a touchscreen computer display at home...(or do they? maybe I'm wrong...)


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By Myrandex on 8/21/2012 8:24:46 PM , Rating: 3
Please provide an example of a Windows phone that didn't receive an update to version 7.5? Heck all originally launched ones are receiving an update to 7.8.

And if you are whining about not receiving 8, so many hardware things changed with 8 it just makes sense. The same way that Apple allows phones to be updated to later versions of their iOS software, but not all of the features exist. So yea I have come to the conclusion that no amount of software updating will magically grant older phones to have storage card slots externally accessible, higher screen resolutions, etc.


RE: Sounds there are many like me...
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 2:42:44 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry about that, Myrandex - the 7.0 to 7.5 upgrade is free.
I take that back but I'll stand by what I stated regarding the rest of my ideas.
Again, it was a confussion and I never thought a Windows Phone 7.5 would even have an upgrade path to Windows Phone 8.

Regarding the external memory slots - I still can't see why a manufacturer would take that out - it's useful from so many perspectives that I just don't even want to think about it!
I wanted to transfer a folder that was full of music files and that it would've taken a lot of time to transfer via BT(because we didn't have a computer around) - and guess what! Although the phone had various GBs of internal memory - it had no memory card slot so I couldn't take out my microSD card and copy the files from his phone's internal memory right onto my microSD card. That is hilarious! This is going backwards!

"So yea I have come to the conclusion that no amount of software updating will magically grant older phones to have storage card slots externally accessible,"
Older phones are the ones who feature external memory support - newer ones seem to only feature internal memory - may your phone be out of battery or rendered useless - you may also say goodbye to your music, photos, memories and all that - because...YES! We are heading in the right direction - coming up with new BS and limits that just don't make sense!
Just the same BS that Apple had to put its customers through when it came to replacing the battery...but still...that was at least "doable".


By Major HooHaa on 9/14/2012 11:42:12 AM , Rating: 2
While a friend of mine is happy to embrace the brave new world of Windows 8, I am not so sure. I must be getting old. :-)

Part of the reason must be because I remember upgrading to Windows ME and also Windows Vista, while I was\am quite happy with Windows XP \ Windows 7.

I must admit that I don't like the look of the interface and from what I can see, the layout and design of Windows 8 is not aimed at the traditional desktop P.C.

Metro looks over-simplified and "Fisherprice" to me. And how functional is Metro compared to a Windows 7 desktop environment?

Also I am not crazy about Cloud computing, which appears to me to be "All your personal files, stored on an internet server." Which means they are no longer your personal files.

The other side to this is that my 4 year old "Core 2 Quad" desktop P.C, with 4GB's of DDR2 RAM and upgraded with a now 2 year old Radeon graphics card, runs everything I throw at it quite happily at a resolution of 1280x1024. This includes games like Battlefield 3 and Skyrim. The only time my machine feels a little slow is when Win 7 is loading, but I can live with that.

I feel that upgrading my hardware now would give a useful performance advantage across the board, but I'll stick with this machine a bit longer, while it's still all working well.


sour grapes
By mchentz on 8/21/2012 12:27:49 PM , Rating: 2
Sounds like Acer is having a hard time




RE: sour grapes
By Biff0rz on 8/21/2012 12:33:59 PM , Rating: 5
Acer is butthurt


RE: sour grapes
By Belard on 8/21/2012 1:05:04 PM , Rating: 1
Do you know who Quanta and Compal are? They are the actual manufactures for HP, Sony, Dell and a few other computers... maybe including some Lenovos. Foxconn makes ThinPads, Apple products and specialized items as well as motherboards for the likes of Intel.

So, for the most part - its everyone.

Windows R8PE is crap, nobody is excited to get it.


RE: sour grapes
By GoodBytes on 8/21/2012 1:52:38 PM , Rating: 2
Dell uses Foxconn. Every motherboard of Dell I have touch, even computer casing all say "Foxconn"


RE: sour grapes
By Totally on 8/21/2012 2:16:36 PM , Rating: 2
Same for hp, but it's been a couple years since I've purchased one.


RE: sour grapes
By Solandri on 8/21/2012 5:55:51 PM , Rating: 2
Quanta makes most of HP's laptops, and some of Dell's. They also make all of the Macbooks (yes Apple fans, your laptop was designed and made by the same company as most of HP's laptops). They're called original design manufacturers. The entire industry is pretty secretive about who sources from whom, so it's hard to get up-to-date info (most of the wiki data is from 2007).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laptop_brands...

Acer and Asus are actually the two companies with the closest ties with manufacturers. Acer started off as an ODM. They spun off their design and manufacturing branch as Wistron in 2000, since their retail Acer branch was competing with many of their ODM customers. Same thing with Asus, which spun off their ODM branch as Pegatron in 2007.

If Samsung continues making cell phones and tablets while simultaneously selling components to competitors, I expect they'll eventually do the same thing. There was already an article where an executive at Samsung's phone division bemoaned that Samsung Semiconductor wouldn't give them any better pricing than their competitors. Although I suppose it could always end up like Sony, who makes most of the CCDs used in competitors digital cameras, while simultaneously selling their own line of cameras.


RE: sour grapes
By woofersus on 8/21/2012 2:01:47 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah, for the most part it's everyone who has been racing to the lowest common denominator when making windows laptops and pc's while Apple has been raking it in hand over fist with relatively expensive products. Microsoft is obviously sick of it or they wouldn't have introduced the Surface tablet. Everybody else is encouraged to compete, but they'll have to step it up in order to do it.

This is a combination of sour grapes over Surface and a poke to get Microsoft to do more consumer advertising so they don't have to pay for it.


RE: sour grapes
By headbox on 8/21/2012 2:38:55 PM , Rating: 2
right- everyone wanted to make $1 off of high volume sales of cheap PCs. Now they're making $1 profit from low volume of sales. Then they introduce a new product made out of aluminum instead of plastic, and surprise- it costs as much as a Mac... so people just buy the Mac.


RE: sour grapes
By Argon18 on 8/21/12, Rating: -1
RE: sour grapes
By damianrobertjones on 8/21/2012 3:20:14 PM , Rating: 2
Speak for yourself as I'm using it now. You do not speak for everyone


In essence
By Ammohunt on 8/21/2012 2:08:23 PM , Rating: 2
I think they are right:

1. Nothing revolutionary about Windows 8
2. A new interface to learn(love it or hate it)
3. To soon a release after Windows 7

Equals: no compelling reason for Joe User to upgrade
Equals: slow uptake at a minimum.




RE: In essence
By zephyrprime on 8/21/2012 2:17:48 PM , Rating: 4
Let's be honest, Windows 8 exists to get the tablet and phone market. It's not made to advance the desktop or laptop market and that's why it has so few changes under the hood but a drastically different interface. Microsoft hopes to leverage their desktop dominance so as to quickly create a huge ecosystem of apps on the mobile world and also to tie together all computer platforms so that they can take advantage of the "network effect" (ie, people want all their devices to be compatible, operate similarly, etc).

Since this is the case, it's obvious that Win8 will not do much for the desktop market.


RE: In essence
By Natch on 8/21/2012 2:26:37 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Microsoft wasn't going after the PC crowd with this version of Windows. Instead, they're hoping to gobble up some of the smart phone and tablet market that they've pretty much been shut out of, due to the popularity of Apple & Android-based products.

The part they're going to have problems with is that by having a version of Windows on your phone or tablet, it's going to drive up the cost of that device. This is where Google's genius came in, in that they offered Android for free.

Microsoft has a rather steep slope to climb, if they want any real market share....and I doubt they're going to put much of a dent in the Apple or Android shares.


RE: In essence
By Netscorer on 8/21/2012 2:49:16 PM , Rating: 2
It's not just a price. We all saw how cheap Nokia Lumia was selling for. It did not help. I doubt consumer market have place right now for another mobile OS. Apple/Android combo covers pretty much all niches. Windows 8 may do slightly better in tablet form but if anything, this may be due to MS Office popularity more then to anything else.
Microsoft can never be counted out. They have enough money to make several pricey mistakes and still come out on top in the end. However, Windows 8 and Nokia alliance may not be enough to do so. They need to reconcentrate their effort around business segment, where they are still an undisputed leader and can become a natural successor to RIM (who should really change their name to RIP). Then try to drive sales from business into consumer space.
So to me the whole idea of Windows 8 to become more dummy friendly makes no sense. You want to reinvent the UI - go for it. But do not alienate your most faithful customers - enterprise users who appreciate gradual succession more then anything else.
Right now our IT department does not even consider Windows 8 (we are still on XP). We did not even go so far as trying to evaluate it - just does not make any business sense.


RE: In essence
By zephyrprime on 8/22/2012 1:05:04 PM , Rating: 2
Yes you're right about the cost disadvantage. Microsoft, I think, saw the usefulness of advertising earlier on with its acquisition of aQuantive years ago. However, they just lack the vision and do not realize how absolutely important advertising is as a revenue stream. There are some very important products that can out compete paid products by virtue of being price free but encumbered with advertising. MS needs to realize that advertising is absolutely critical to develop as a revenue stream! The key to the living room and to web dominance is being able to make money off free products with ADVERTISING!


RE: In essence
By 91TTZ on 8/21/2012 3:29:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Let's be honest, Windows 8 exists to get the tablet and phone market. It's not made to advance the desktop or laptop market and that's why it has so few changes under the hood but a drastically different interface


You're exactly right about this. I don't know why some people fail to see it.


RE: In essence
By 3ogdy on 8/25/2012 2:48:35 PM , Rating: 1
People like me may sound as if they were failing to see it but the problem is M$ is forcing us to use their "8"...
If they weren't going after the PC crowd - why the f. did they state it would be available for Windows PCs?
Of course, so they can make more money.

They should've kept it for the phones and tablets and touchscreen devices (yet, we have touchscreen PCs...but don't force your bullshit onto every single computer out there - be it touchscreen or not). Because if people want to go back to 7 they will ahve to fucking pay for it just like it happened with Vista - the ones upgrading(yeah, UPgrading) to XP had to pay so they could use an OLDER OS.


lols
By NellyFromMA on 8/21/2012 1:15:17 PM , Rating: 2
All i read here is that PC makers with no mobile strategies outside of Intel-based solutions are all crabby because they just assumed Microsoft would solve their problems for them.

Turns out Microsoft solved THEIR OWN problems and went compatible with Arm AND maintained Intel compatibility. Now its actually up to the MANUFACTURERS to manufacture quality goods. No longer can they survive by default. Commence the whine fest.

The funny thing is Intel started the demise of Wintel when it forced MS into the terrible 'Vista Capable' program to not lose sales then threw MS under the bus every step of the way since.

Sorry, the industry IS changing. PCs as we know it for consumers WILL see subtantial reductions as something like 7-8/10 internet users prefer the mobile OS's. There is nothing MS can really do abotu this, other than adapt and dig trenches into the growing new market. Ignoring it frankly makes no sense.

Power users and content creation seems as though it will have growing pains transitioning to a 'post-PC' era and likely its stubborn migration will lead to the PC having an extended bow out. Eventually, the PC WILL be a rarity. People in general just don't need PCs for light tasks. Soon they won't need it to do book reports or essays and light office work.

It's just the way it is guys... What's the alternative? iOS / OS X? give me a break... its good enough to use, and iOS in general is a good mobile OS in terms of simplicity, but its just not going to supplement the real need MS fills for the globe.




RE: lols
By Belard on 8/21/2012 3:01:12 PM , Rating: 2
To a large degree, I agree with you.

Technology is changing, smaller, faster, easier. I sometimes use my iPad to browse the web, look up info (Especially in the living room) - rather than use my Windows7 w/ 24' LCD display.

Most people in general never LEARNED how to use a computer. Just the few apps and games (minesweeper / cards) to allow them to do email / socialize and do a bit of work. The PC was a means to do such things. Nowadays, you can do this on your $1000 LCD TV as well, no PC computer needed.

I like my desktop, its expandable its a high-end mid-tower I built myself. Much better than my 2001 Antec tower with 6 LOUD LOUD fans. I wish they'd make a nice high-end mini tower... who really needs a full tower nowadays? Other than gamers (for looks) or some sort of work-station.

I'd go with a tiny box if it would use a standard ATX PSU and hold 4 drives. The PC BOX will be regulated to Hardware freaks, technical people. And with that - they should also become Linux users. The mainstream user NEVER EVER understood the tech inside their box (Its a series of tubes / runs on blue smoke), they don't care. A tablet with a snap-on or wireless keyboard will do. A console for the heavy duty games.

I really see myself buying one more gaming card for my next build. An AMD 7870 or 8770 - whatever is under $200. Seen Halo4? Its on a 7 year old console with a video card that is sub-standard to the ATI 2900/GeForce 8800GT. Yet its graphics look NO WORSE than the games that are ported to PC.

Hard core PC users will need to migrate to Linux to remain power users. WindowsOS is a sinking ship. MS wants the money, Windows was a way to getting there. Metro replaces Windows in hopes of having market share than Apple and Android now has. If Metro fails, and Windows is not far behind... MS is in trouble. Really, other than MS-Office and a few programs, MS-Windows isn't needed.

When the PC industry started in the 70~80s, we bought what we could. It was exciting and it was not something the common person used. Buying a $200~300 floppy drive was a dream. Having a whole desk to hold your computer and its add-ons were neat for its time. As the 80s moved along, PCs started becoming low-cost business computers and moved most of their stuff to the inside. In the 90s, the boxes got bigger, with a full tower being typical to hold the 6 cards needed to make the thing work. (unlike the Mac or Amiga).

With the Pentium II, Intel introduces the ATX form-factor in which the basic ports and features are included. Even I didn't like it at first... but after the first build or two, AT was dead. As the 2000s went by, the tech got faster and smaller with the internet in full swing. The PC needed to be quieter and more reliable as non-techies can't troubleshoot. Today, we can put a desktop onto the size of a deck of cards. The common user hold more computing & graphics power in their hand today with the iPhone or Android than the desktops from 2002.

The phone is now our Personal Computer. Its our phone, camera, camcorder, game unit, PDA, photo album, internet, TV, video and music device and then some.

I'm 40... I can reflect what we started with when I was a kid in school. When having access to the schools $1500 Apple][ computer during lunch was a treat. My 1986 floppy drive is BIGGER and easily heavier than my ThinkPad. My phone makes my 1990 Amiga 3000 into a model T.

I don't see the traditional PC we know in the future. The gamer boxes will eventually stop being huge... and at the rate things are going, no more gamer systems anyway. Expect the next Warcraft on consoles.

The BOX computer will be regulated to work-stations. I do work... I need a box, for now. I already have my own media center, so eventually - a tablet like device and a keyboard is all that is needed.

Even programmers don't need a box form factor. Same for Linux users.

Still, the only thing that makes todays boxes worth-while is the standardized parts for simple replacement. Drives, mobo, cards and PSU. I'd love to see a "CTX" format PSU which is STANDARD 1/2 size of todays ATX. Its why *I* don't built or go with small form-factor systems. When the PSU blows up, there is NO replacement from Antec or anyone else. Rendering the cases useless. (guess how I know)

For a power-user system, all most of us need is a tiny board with the standard ATX back, 2 PCIe Slots, 2/4 memory slots and the ability to hold an modern CPU.

MS "fills the globe" with a standard OS that any business can use. Linux can do it a lot cheaper. What would it really require to make Android into a more productive OS? Android already does 1280x768, what about when it could output 1920x1080 (still less than an iPad) and support overlapping Windows for a desktop environment? Imagine what happens WHEN Open Office comes to Android tablets? For here, you can see where and why MS is quickly getting MS-Office onto a NON-Windows platform.

The Windows Desktop OS has no mass-market future. Apple is okay with what they have because they are making profit with about 7% of the the PC market. As long as they maintain about 50% of the tablet market, they will be healthy. If MS fails with Metro (And I do hope they do) the computer market will be completely different in 2020 compared to 2010 or 2000.

These are exciting time...


RE: lols
By 91TTZ on 8/21/2012 3:32:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Turns out Microsoft solved THEIR OWN problems and went compatible with Arm AND maintained Intel compatibility.


Well they did one or another, but not both. You can either have Arm OR you can have Intel. But you can't run Intel compatible programs on an ARM CPU.


RE: lols
By xaders on 8/21/2012 4:15:22 PM , Rating: 2
There is a lot of good points that id agree with & the rest no opinion from me because it depends on each person preferences. ill say that win 7 will be the new win XP & switch all my system to windows 7 especially with SDD for booting. id like win 7-64 bit over XP now because it is newer & take advantage of hardware like more CPU core & RAM, less annoy over vista & like the keyboard shortcuts.
im using win 8 on a older system from 2007 laptop since early aug. when hear it is coming out to RTM & release date. id hate the new "metro start menu" when id hear about it but option "classic desktop mode." it start up fast within 35 sec with password login just a slower the SSD.
in the end, this is the cycle of microsoft of one good one & the next one bad one.

id got back the old start menu from here.
(http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33642_7-57496506-292/...


Still Butt Hurt About Surface, Huh?
By Arsynic on 8/21/2012 1:02:50 PM , Rating: 5
I think it's no coincidence that they believe their cheap plastic junk running Windows 8 won't sell well in light of Surface tablets.

Instead of being inspired, they throw a fit and start complaining.




Ballmer is done
By poi2 on 8/21/2012 2:20:52 PM , Rating: 1
can Windows RT run Crysis ?




RE: Ballmer is done
By Netscorer on 8/21/2012 2:58:42 PM , Rating: 2
If MS will release Direct X for ARM, then why not? I am not saying that you will be able to just install your current games but it will make it easier for game developer to release adaptations that will run on RT. I doubt though that Microsoft will go so far. They will probably want to differentiate RT from Pro and create different niches for their W8 devices.


RE: Ballmer is done
By xaders on 8/21/2012 4:02:05 PM , Rating: 2
Not a bad item because id want it to work on everything but Windows 8 RT is for ARM & tablets. it maybe hard to play crysis on smaller screen & no full gaming keyboard & mouse. id dont if crysis is support with ARM CPUs.


Propaganda
By Saldrin on 8/21/2012 12:45:58 PM , Rating: 4
Anyone find it ironic that Acer, a company that was upset about Microsoft marketing their own tablet as direct competition, is now talking smack about Microsoft's other products?




Conclusion Fail
By Helbore on 8/21/2012 1:12:55 PM , Rating: 2
So OEMs like Acer claim there is no consumer enthusiasm for Windows 8. But in the very same article we are told that there is consumer enthusiasm for Microsoft Surface, which is - shock, horror! - a Windows 8 PC.

I'd surmise that the lack of enthusiasm is actually for crappy hardware products that are produced by whiny, blowhards like Acer.

Get with the picture Wang and co. Its not Windows 8 that is stopping people from wanting your products. It's you turning out products that nobody wants that makes people not want your products.




RE: Conclusion Fail
By Belard on 8/21/2012 1:53:18 PM , Rating: 2
Its both.

For the most people... a PC is either a box or a portable notebook.


Doesn't that make sense?
By Belard on 8/21/2012 1:34:25 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Analysts are changing their sales forecasts as well, mainly due to the fact that some believe it'll take three to four financial quarters for consumers to get onboard with Windows 8. It won't take off right away.

That is seriously funny! That is a sign of major storm ahead. When Windows7 came out - people couldn't get enough of it. The hold-outs with XP took to Windows 7 with little thought.

Many of us can use Windows7 for the next 2~10 years without ever touching windows r8pe.

Take a year to get onboard? If they don't get onboard on day 1, WTF is going to make day 365 any different? I guess what they mean as people's crappy computers die and are forced to buy a new PC - what they have in the store is going to be Windows8, period. Just like vista for most consumers.

In 2 years, Windows 9 or whatever they are going name the turd is due to be out, MS has already stated they want to be on a 2 year schedule. What a cluster-F.




RE: Doesn't that make sense?
By beefgyorki on 8/21/2012 4:49:08 PM , Rating: 2
Biggest reason I see is if Win8 tablets take off people will probably acquire some apps they really like and wouldn't mind being able to use on their normal PC.

One example I've already run into is the new Solitaire Collection. When the entire Win8 rollout (PC, Tabs, Phone, & Xbox) is complete I should be able to start a game on my phone and switch to either a Tablet, PC, or even potentially my XBox to finish it and vice versa.

Also don't expect Win9 anytime soon. All indications are MS is going towards a OSX style delivery schedule meaning there will be smaller but more frequent significant OS updates. There is already a targeted release for next year that will be more than what we usually see with a Service Pack. Which makes sense considering the next Xbox will likely be out next year and will complete the unified 4 Screens OS design Microsoft wants.


BB and Acer
By Gunbuster on 8/21/2012 2:41:42 PM , Rating: 2
Good prediction. With Best Buy circling the drain where will Acer sell their glossy plastic $400 720p windows 8 laptops?




RE: BB and Acer
By Pirks on 8/21/2012 7:54:53 PM , Rating: 1
newegg and amazon


A tip + comment...
By beefgyorki on 8/21/2012 4:36:45 PM , Rating: 2
When you make the Desktop tile the first one on the Start Screen you can launch/switch to it by pressing enter when you are on the Start Screen. So when I log in I type in my password, press enter twice, and I'm on the Desktop. And since Win8 boots up quicker than the same machine with Win7 the actual amount time to get to the Desktop is shorter.

With that said...

I'm still of the opinion MS should have given non-touch enabled PCs the option to disable Metro during the install and hope an influx of good Metro apps would encourage people to turn it back on and let strengths of the tech stand on its own rather than being forced onto them.

But instead they go the route of forcing things onto people and all they accomplish is creating a vocal group of dissenters that will hurt Win8's reception. Which is a shame since, Start Screen vs Menu aside, Win8's Desktop is an improvement over Win7's.




RE: A tip + comment...
By Pirks on 8/21/2012 8:44:01 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
a vocal group of dissenters that will hurt Win8's reception
We the guardians of progress will beat these lame XP oldfags into submission eventually, don't you worry. Just like we did with Win 3.0 and Win95 releases which were just as revolutionary UI-wise as Win8 is. Oldfags were wailing about failing MS exactly the same they wail now. The history repeats itself, as usual


I hated Windows 8
By Zaranthos on 8/22/2012 11:16:35 AM , Rating: 3
I spent a couple hours on Windows 8 and I hated it.

I'm over 40 years old and I've used computers in many forms for well over half that time. I've used operating systems like DOS, OS/2, almost every version of Windows from 3.x, Linux in many varieties, BeOS, Haiku OS, half a dozen versions of Mac OS or more, and much more.

I expect a certain amount of standardization between Windows versions or at the very least an easy way to customize the look so it's familiar with the older version(s) features I've grown accustomed to or just prefer. It doesn't make any difference if a new interface is better if I simply don't like it. If I don't have an easy choice to learn it on my own time it frustrates me and Windows 8 frustrated me immensely. I simply didn't like it and trying to make it more comfortable to previous versions of Windows was not easy or simply next to impossible in any reasonable manner. Why put so much effort into supporting legacy hardware and then piss on legacy users who either can't adapt that quickly or simply don't want to? No amount of glowing praise, wonderful reviews, flashy TV advertisements, or OEM preloading will repair the damage done by the "shove it down their throats" attitude I perceive with Windows 8.




where the heck
By muhahaaha on 8/22/2012 2:38:21 AM , Rating: 2
Where in Dante's Inferno is MacDevDude? If anyone can school us on the woes of Windows, and the godliness of FruitOS (TM) it would be he.




By BifurcatedBoat on 8/22/2012 3:10:40 AM , Rating: 2
where MS threw us under the bus for the sake of trying to grab smartphone and tablet marketshare?

They are too big of a company with too many resources to not realize what a stinker this is for traditional PCs. They know people don't want it.

That's why they've worked so hard to make sure that, for example, you can't avoid booting into Metro. They know a large percentage of users would, because Metro is so bad for desktop PCs.

So no, hopefully you'll understand why I'm not so excited about the prospect of putting this abomination on my PC.




What an understatement...
By Beenthere on 8/21/12, Rating: 0
SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Reclaimer77 on 8/21/12, Rating: -1
RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By chmilz on 8/21/2012 12:39:43 PM , Rating: 5
I'll take this opportunity to point out that the OEM's that are lowering their forecasts are junk peddlers that can't make a quality product regardless of which OS is available.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Flunk on 8/21/2012 12:40:21 PM , Rating: 2
That is true, none of these PC makers could make a PC that wasn't junk if their lives depended on it.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Argon18 on 8/21/2012 12:46:34 PM , Rating: 4
Um. Huh? I guess you didn't know that Acer, Quanta, and Compal are the three biggest OEM's, they manufacture most of the laptops for HP, IBM, Alienware, etc.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Motoman on 8/21/2012 1:40:57 PM , Rating: 2
That is correct. The above posters are uninformed idiots.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By SoCalBoomer on 8/21/2012 1:46:15 PM , Rating: 2
you did realize that IBM doesn't produce laptops anymore, right?

Quanta and Compal are like Foxconn - they are the manufacturer, not the OEM in the sense we think. They don't sell computers to consumers, they just do the components MFG and ASSY. They're termed an ODM (Original Design Manufacturer) - they take design orders and produce the product to the specifications of Apple, Dell, Acer, HP, etc. etc. etc.

I doubt they have much stake in Windows 8 as they don't sell anything themselves, they just make things for the others to sell. . .


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Motoman on 8/21/2012 1:52:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I doubt they have much stake in Windows 8 as they don't sell anything themselves, they just make things for the others to sell. . .


...you might want to re-think how much the ODMs are going to be reliant on the success of the products they manufacture for the OEMs...

...seriously. You reckon the ODMs aren't going to be affected if the OEMs can't sell the products the ODMs make for them?

Wow.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Reclaimer77 on 8/21/12, Rating: -1
RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Arkive on 8/21/2012 12:58:01 PM , Rating: 3
I offer you the same opportunity to admit that it's much more likely that Acer is making an about-face due to the release of the Windows Surface Tablet that they see as not only direct competition to them, but also a smack in their face since Microsoft basically said, "No one is making a good competitor to the iPad so I guess we'll do it ourselves." Acer is merely following through on the threat it made to Microsoft after it debuted the Surface. Also, Acer is a current or previous customer of both Compal and Quanta, respectively, so their alignment with Acer's opinion shouldn't shock anyone.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Manch on 8/21/2012 1:01:46 PM , Rating: 1
You dislike WIN 8! My GOD! Your opinion...it's not the same as everyone else!?! DT sheeple! Get em!

I genuinly dislike WIN 8 on a desktop. I have a technet subscription for work so I downloaded the final commercial release and put it on a laptop, tablet, and a few others just to see. It's changed a good bit since the release canidate, it's better but still. Nope, not on my Desktop!

Tablets, sure, works great on those. Laptops with touch screens? sure. Use as a 10ft interface on a media PC connected to your TV? yup, especially if with the kinect.

MS has been slowly dumbing down their OS for a long time. I start cussing everytime they put out a new release and I have to dig 4 fukin menus deeper to get to the same damn thing. For Win 8, they went full retard, and you never go full retard.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Belard on 8/21/2012 1:44:19 PM , Rating: 2
Hey! You copied me! I've been saying that Windows r8pe is full retard for months. :)

You never go full retard!

Wonder if their is any artwork with that slogan on it yet?


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Manch on 8/21/2012 3:23:05 PM , Rating: 2
Id buy it if it was on a shirt


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Motoman on 8/21/2012 4:26:58 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.zazzle.com/never_go_full_retard_tees-23...

http://www.spreadshirt.com/never-go-full-retard-te...

This comment is apparently spam and we do not allow spam comments.

I wonder how much extra crap I have to put in here to let this fully-retarded system post this?


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Motoman on 8/21/2012 4:27:51 PM , Rating: 2
Oh. About that much, I guess.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Gurthang on 8/21/2012 1:08:38 PM , Rating: 2
I think Windows 8 has some serious flaws in the UI design that to some extent could be mitigated with a really good welcome to windows help and/or setup wizard. That along with some sort of clever in store demos to push the "how to do Windows 8" thing as well as demonstrate what is great about the new design.

But if MS relies on the OEMs to do that things are going to fail badily.

To me the biggest failure is stripping the interface elements down to the point where people have no idea what is where. New touch gestures, "hot spots", and new keystrokes only work when you know them or there is some indicator that gets you to try them. To me there is too much hidden so that too many times I had to watch as my wife and sometimes even myself were at a loss where the thing we really wanted was.

That said there is a lot of good stuff in there too.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Dribble on 8/21/2012 1:38:24 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, win 8 on anything that's not a tablet is terrible. Not sure why everyone is so keen on defending it, all I can think is they haven't used it?

It's a touchscreen os and trying to make it work for a traditional windows desktop or laptop is very much a case of round peg in square hole.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Motoman on 8/21/2012 1:48:11 PM , Rating: 1
It's because children always think something new is necessarily better than something old.

Like on-screen keyboards on phones instead of physical keyboards.

Like the "ribbon" toolbar instead of the traditional toolbar.

...and like the UI formerly known as Metro(sexual) over the traditional Windows UI.

Some things are in the form they're in because it's the optimal form. The general form of the wheel, for example. Pants. Toasters. Drinking glasses. These are just a few things that haven't really changed...ever. Because they can't be made better than they already are - they're in their optimal form. "Oh my gawd, 2-legged pants are soooooo 2011! These pants have 3 legs - they're 50% better! Why can't you see that? THIS IS WHO I AM!!!111!!1one"

People are finally starting to realize that, with the unMetro UI, the emperor has no clothes. While the dipsh1ts of this world are still p1ssing themselves over having a phone-like UI on a desktop PC (it's new, and therefore necessarily better), finally some people who are actually possessed of brains are starting to speak up and point out what a horrifically bad idea it is.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By GoodBytes on 8/21/2012 2:09:25 PM , Rating: 2
So why are you using anything above DOS or Unix Terminal?
Interfaces, especially menus, has been criticizes even more than Windows 8 Start Screen, look where we are now, and look at what you are enjoying.

I for one, love the ribbon bar, and I wish every software would use it, so that I can use advance feature in 1-2 mouse clicks and not go menu by menu for 30min trying to find the option, or group of options to click to do things.

I have2 complaints about Windows 8
-> Hard to shutdown/restart the computer
-> Metro app take priority on file association over desktop apps, even if a desktop program registers a file type, if their is a metro app that previously opened it, it will open with the Metro app. You need to use "Default programs" panel once you install Windows 8 and your desktop app, to register all program properly. An extra step to do.

However, for me, the ups clearly surpass the downs. So I'll be getting Windows 8 on day 1 of its official release on both my laptop (which enjoys an extra hour of battery life, AND makes my ambient light sensor work again, which it didn't in Windows 7 64-bit but did in Vista 64-bit), and the large tiles making using a touchpad to point and click a breeze. Plus its more responsive on both my systems, and games on my desktop, gain a nice performance increase.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By JediJeb on 8/21/2012 3:28:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I for one, love the ribbon bar, and I wish every software would use it, so that I can use advance feature in 1-2 mouse clicks and not go menu by menu for 30min trying to find the option, or group of options to click to do things.


I have the opposite experience with the ribbon. For me the ribbon takes up too much vertical space, and is even worse when on a wide screen monitor, plus where in older versions of Excel I could get to what I wanted in maybe 2 clicks now I hunt all over the ribbon because nothing is where it seems it should be. Same with W7 on my new laptop, I hunt for hours to find the things that were right up front with XP(after I switched back to the classic style menu). Even the groupings in XP by default seemed to scramble things up for me. What is so wrong with opening Control Panel and having all the sub menus right there on the screen instead of grouping them and making another layer to drill down through? Then W7 took something as simple as Add/Remove Programs and put it in some strange obscure place that takes forever to find.

Maybe they are just trying to keep the people who make a living training people how to use windows in business for a while longer. Constantly make changes to the UI and those people get to keep retraining whole workforces.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Motoman on 8/21/2012 4:29:57 PM , Rating: 1
Simple physics dictates that the ribbon bar provides less functionality that traditional toolbars. For the simple fact that MS felt it necessary to Fisher-Price all the icons into clownishly huge proportions such that only 1 icon can go where 4 or so used to fit. And then limit you to only seeing one toolbar (a ribbon is just a fat toolbar) at a time.

Not better. Worse.

Thanks for proving my thesis.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Motoman on 8/21/2012 4:32:51 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and as for:

quote:
So why are you using anything above DOS or Unix Terminal? Interfaces, especially menus, has been criticizes even more than Windows 8 Start Screen, look where we are now, and look at what you are enjoying.


Because Windows 3.11, with it's GUI, was a decided improvement over DOS. And the Windows 95 GUI, with the modern Start menu, was an decided improvement over Windows 3.1.

The Start menu didn't really change in any fundamental way from Windows 95 to Windows 7. Little bits and bobs here and there, sure...but it was fundamentally the same - because that's the optimal form.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Pirks on 8/21/2012 4:43:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
because that's the optimal form
It's optimal only for PC-DOS loving oldfags like you, but for the modern user who'd like to see live tiles with system status updates, email, chat, notifications, weather, stock etc on a single screen your oldfaggy Win95 interface is not optimal at all.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Motoman on 8/21/2012 5:23:40 PM , Rating: 1
You've been able to have all that stuff on your desktop, either via native widgets, or 3rd party bits, since at least WinXP.

You have no point.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Pirks on 8/21/2012 5:55:25 PM , Rating: 2
My point is that Win8 already integrates all this third party stuff which is very useful for most users. More integration of useful software out of the box - better experience for the end user. Got it now?


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Motoman on 8/21/2012 9:45:59 PM , Rating: 1
I see you can't fathom the phrase "native widgets" - that means they come out of the box.

You continue to have no point.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Pirks on 8/22/2012 1:17:56 AM , Rating: 2
There are no native widgets in XP and those in Vista occupy your desktop, not start screen, and they are not live tiles connected to some full blown apps behind. These are different things. Learn some basics about how Metro works and what are the main UI concepts behind it.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Tony Swash on 8/21/12, Rating: -1
RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Pirks on 8/21/2012 4:13:09 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
they decided to ruin the user experience on their existing desktop business
They didn't ruin anything. The old desktop is still there. All the old enterprise apps work just fine. User retraining is minimal, just show them how corners work and voila, job is done and typical corporate user is as productive as ever. So you're just fantasizing and following a couple of oldfags here like Reclaimer and Motoman who stuck their beloved 5" PC-DOS floppy so far up their asses that it sticks out their mouth now and obstructs their vision. Don't make mistake following PC-DOS oldfags like these, always think for yourself Tony. MS has done radical UI changes before, they moved from PC-DOS to classic Win 3.x UI then they moved from Win 3.x to very different Win 95 UI and all the Motomans and Reclaimers were wailing about how MS is gonna fail, just like they're wailing now. Think about MS history, think hard instead of following local oldfags.
quote:
very big gamble
Just like all of their major changes before. Some of their gambles were successful, some not. I don't see why Win 8 is going to be not a successful one. It blends best touch UI with best x86 desktop app support, this just can't fail by definition. With developer tools that pwn every other tools in the industry (including the joke they call XCode, this one is so lame and ugly compared to VS 2012... man you don't want to dig into it, you'll get depressed like me :P I was of much higher opinion of Apple's devtools before I compared XCode with VS 2012 myself) MS will have no problem getting tons of Metro apps for its new OS, given that these apps FIRST TIME IN MS HISTORY could be easily ported between console, PC, tablets and phones, all on different hardware architectures. This is a grand vision and a huge platform shift, and it looks risky I agree, but which platform shift is not? Don't you remember all the wailing predicting Apple fail after they moved to x86? Or all the negative remarks about early versions of iOS? Come on Tony, what happened with your memory? One sided blindness and anti-MS bias much because you are an Apple stock holder? I told ya people! Heheee
quote:
what was needed was an alternative OS for mobile devices
They actually have TWO separate alternative OSes for mobile ARM-based devices, one is WP8 and the other is WinRT for tablets. You just have not a slightest idea Tony what the heck you're talking about :))) Maybe you should read up on some basics first, before posting here? Maybe reading some other sites besides Apple's cock sucking ones like Gruber and Dediu will help? I hope it will. Try it sometime ;)
quote:
classic MS error of trying to protect the Windows business
Doh, they were making this classic error for like 30 years already, always guaranteeing their customers best backwards compatibility one can imagine. Win8 can run on some real ancient machines from like 12 years ago if not more, while OS X 10.8 can run on exactly what? Macs from 2009 or something? Tony, don't pretend to be THAT dumb, I know you are not. If you read some alternative sites that do NOT suck Apple's cock you will realize that MS always used their backwards compatibility as their strongest weapon, ESPECIALLY in corporate sector where this is NUMBER ONE PRIORITY usually, 'cause they all have those famous PC-DOS apps written in 1980 that MS still supports you know.

Let me tell you what MS is doing here. I know this because I read a LOT of stuff besides Apple's cock sucking Gruber etc. What MS is doing here is called BRANCHING. They were making enough money on corporate market and on consumer market too because they had no competition for like 15 years and they used their monopoly to get super profits. Now they got competition on consumer market that quickly knocked them down to almost irrelevance. So what they do now essentially is branching their Windows brand into their own hardware/software package for tablets (Surface and other monolithic ARM tablet packages with secure boot OS tightly controlled by MS) and for phones (MS subdivision called Nokia is being assimilated into MS empire as of right now). So what we have here is that MS is coming back on consumer front, trying to attack on both hardware and tight integration fronts, which was always the main market crack'n'conquer weapon of Apple. And while they come back on consumer front they also made sure their corporate customers do not suffer, so they made Win8 100% corporate friendly by leaving old desktop intact and providing very easy transition for corporate users by doing some minimal retraining about using corners with your mouse.

How this very rational and thought out strategy of conquering new market while properly supporting older traditional markets can fail is way beyond me. Your Apple cock sucking friends like Gruber predict failure, and lousy cheapshit producing OEMs wail the same too and even a couple of religious oldfags like Motoman and his twin Reclaimer here predict failure, but tell me, will you really trust 'em all when making a judgement? You trusting WinPC zealots like Motoman, Apple zealots like Gruber and losing businessmen like Acer's Wang is a GOOD IDEA? Really?

Do you see the full picture now Tony? Did my little lesson help you understanding all this better? Please share your feedback, I'm interested. Thank you :)


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Tony Swash on 8/22/2012 5:52:03 AM , Rating: 1
Here's one happy punter

http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/why-i-m-uninstalli...

I really, really hope Microsoft doesn't change a thing in Windows 8.

It's perfect just as it's is ;)


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Helbore on 8/22/2012 10:40:42 AM , Rating: 3
To be fair, Tony, that guy is clearly a moron.

He can't even work out how to edit an appointment in the metro calendar app. Ummm, all you have to do is click on it and type into the boody obvious text boxes that appear. Saving is a simply matter of clicking the button that looks like a disk. The button isn't even hidden in any menus.

The worst part - I hadn't even bothered to use the metro calendar app before reading about his problems (I use Outlook for that). It took me all of 30 seconds to work it out - its that obvious how to use it.

Frankly, if that guy is so clueless he couldn't work out how to operate such a simple app, he shouldn't be tech blogging. Perhaps something simpler, like nose-picking, would be more up his street.


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By jnemesh on 8/21/2012 2:03:19 PM , Rating: 2
Oh sure, JUST LIKE reaction to Windows Phone 7, I am sure this hate is TOTALLY unfounded, right?

Get a FRIGGIN CLUE! If there is THIS MUCH hate, there is SOMETHING WRONG! If there is THIS MUCH resistance, maybe it's not an education or marketing problem, but a DESIGN and EXECUTION problem!

The FACT is, PEOPLE IN OVERWHELMING NUMBERS, be they developers, users, or PC manufacturers, HATE Windows 8!

So, quit telling people to "shut up" and calling them "haters"! It's an honest reaction to a BS OS!


RE: SHUT UP HATER!!!
By Reclaimer77 on 8/21/2012 6:11:48 PM , Rating: 2
Did you actually read my post? We agree in every way.


"Mac OS X is like living in a farmhouse in the country with no locks, and Windows is living in a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town." -- Charlie Miller













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