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IDC blames smartphones and tablets for sharp PC decline

Research firm IDC has posted the numbers for worldwide PC shipments in Q1 of 2013, and they show the steepest decline ever in a single quarter since the company has been monitoring the industry. Global PC shipments during Q1 of 2013 totaled 76.3 million units. That number represents a decline of 13.9% compared to the same quarter in 2011.

The posted decline in Q1 of 2013 was nearly twice the expected decline of 7.7% according to IDC. IDC also notes that the poor showing in Q1 marks the fourth consecutive quarter of year-over-year shipment declines for the industry. Computer shipments in the U.S. declined by 12.7% year-over-year and declined 18.3% compared to Q4 2012.
IDC says that despite mild improvement in economic environment around the world and some new PC models with Windows 8 shipments were down significantly across all regions compared to the same quarter of 2012.

Declining mini notebook shipments took a big chunk out of the low-end market with tablets and smartphones also contributing to divert significant spending from the computer industry. IDC also reports that weak reception for Windows 8 has hurt the industry and computer makers continue to struggle to differentiate themselves from others on the market.

"At this point, unfortunately, it seems clear that the Windows 8 launch not only failed to provide a positive boost to the PC market, but appears to have slowed the market," said Bob O'Donnell, IDC Program Vice President, Clients and Displays. "While some consumers appreciate the new form factors and touch capabilities of Windows 8, the radical changes to the UI, removal of the familiar Start button, and the costs associated with touch have made PCs a less attractive alternative to dedicated tablets and other competitive devices. Microsoft will have to make some very tough decisions moving forward if it wants to help reinvigorate the PC market."

HP is still the top computer vendor but its worldwide shipments fell more than 23% year-over-year. Lenovo remained in second place and came close to closing the gap between it and HP. Lenovo posted double-digit, year-over-year growth in the U.S.

Source: IDC

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By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 10:43:20 AM , Rating: 2
I meant "objectivity".


By Mitch101 on 4/11/2013 11:44:56 AM , Rating: 2
Hmm did they over look a Down Economy and a lower than expected new job report?

Also there hasnt been any new CPU's and GPU's or even devices recently that I can think of that would give enough of a boost to consider upgrading anything.

Not sure about others but I wont buy another tablet until H.265 is supported in hardware otherwise Im fine with the tablet I have.

I also suspect people are not going as crazy for incremental hardware updates and have a feeling of being satisfied with what they currently have and Market Saturation is probably playing a role. Do they need another tablet, laptop, or desktop or is the existing one doing the job if not an SSD adds new life to an aging existing PC instead of upgrading anything else.

My 2 cents the tech sector seems boring right now.

By Belard on 4/11/2013 4:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
Windows7 market share actually went up over the same quarter.

People are still buying tablets and phones... they are not buying these crappy $300~400PCs (they are slower than the PC desktops/notebooks from 2 years ago).

By mindless1 on 4/12/2013 12:28:42 AM , Rating: 3
It's not that they're not buying because they're crappy, it's that the average person doesn't do HD video editing or play the latest 3D games. 5 year old $400 systems are more than enough to do Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.

The average person today gets a new PC only when the cost to repair one they own that failed, exceeds the value of the system by quite a bit... usually by over twice what it is worth from what I've seen.

I don't put much stock in marketshare figures though, not with the most pirated OS on earth and techies generally giving Vista the thumbs down when they saw a chance to upgrade again and be rid of it.

By Belard on 4/12/2013 9:43:06 AM , Rating: 2
I agree with you 100%. I didnt properly separate two parts of my posts. The second part is that today's low end PCs are really bottom end nowadays. They make desktops that don't even have PCIe slots.

By Motoman on 4/12/2013 11:41:36 AM , Rating: 2
...and what is the average person going to put in a PCIe slot - that didn't already come as built-in to the PC?

99% of all people who buy a PC never open the case for any reason. Either something gets plugged into a USB port, or it doesn't happen.

By sprockkets on 4/11/2013 10:46:06 AM , Rating: 2
They bought apple ipads. It isn't just a shift in OS, but form factor.

Lenovo is the only OEM to have increased sales. Some reasons for that were given on the ars thread, where both HP and Dell are making it hard to buy their products for smaller businesses.

By TakinYourPoints on 4/12/2013 12:58:15 AM , Rating: 2
It isn't just a shift in OS, but form factor.

Yuuuup. When portable devices can do what people use over half their PC time on, those portable devices will get used instead. Now that common uses don't require you being tethered to a desktop, desktop usage will fall accordingly.

Of course you need a desktop for things like hardcore video encoding, data entry, creating long documents, etc etc, but you do not need one for email, web, music, forum browsing, or even all games anymore.

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 10:48:19 AM , Rating: 3
...where did you get that?

At this point, unfortunately, it seems clear that the Windows 8 launch not only failed to provide a positive boost to the PC market, but appears to have slowed the market

This is the reality of Win8. It's such a tragic, horrific POS that it's killing the traditional desktop/laptop market all by itself. The failure of the Metrosexual UI is complete.

Apple's falling status has nothing to do with Win8. If anything, people who look at Win8 are going to suddenly become significantly more likely to buy an iThing instead. Android is what's been putting the screws to Apple.

By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 10:59:16 AM , Rating: 2
Where did I get that? Read the article. Apple's drop in sales is excused while all others are the fault of Windows 8. It's a double standard that doesn't hold up. The desktop computer market is down because people have less to spend, computers are lasting longer, and people are buying mobile devices. It has almost nothing to do with the OS, especially since we see that OSX is dropping as well.

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 11:14:07 AM , Rating: 1
Apple's drop in sales is excused while all others are the fault of Windows 8.

The word "Apple" doesn't even appear in the article.

Besides, any drop in Apple sales certainly has nothing to do with Win8. Win8 should be increasing Apple sales, if anything. Apple is losing marketshare to Android - not Windows 8.

By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 11:15:02 AM , Rating: 2
You aren't reading the actual IDC article. Read the article from the link provided.

By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 12:19:57 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry, I gave you the benefit of the doubt on reading comprehension.

Re-read my original comment (slowly?). It is VERY obvious that I talk about the IDC first, you know, the article that is linked to on this page, and then make reference to journalists who parrot their opinions.

By GotThumbs on 4/11/2013 11:22:15 AM , Rating: 2
I think we're responding to different comments.

But if you click on the source of the will see that Apple experienced a 7.5% drop....based on the IDC research at least.

Best wishes,

By TakinYourPoints on 4/12/2013 1:43:54 AM , Rating: 2
The desktop computer market is down because people have less to spend, computers are lasting longer, and people are buying mobile devices. It has almost nothing to do with the OS, especially since we see that OSX is dropping as well.

Exactly, this is all about desktop and laptop hardware lasting much longer than they used to. Ten years ago there were tangible benefits to bi-annual upgrades, even if you didn't use your computer for gaming. Now a computer even for niche gaming purposes lasts much longer, and for the massive "normal" userbase it is even longer.

A 2007 PC is perfectly viable for the majority of users out there, even longer for most businesses, and that's a problem for an industry that previously leaned on people upgrading more frequently.

By GotThumbs on 4/11/2013 11:06:45 AM , Rating: 3
From the article....did you read it?

Regarding WIN8....thats your opinion, but having used it and knowing its true potential... it's just a matter of people opening their minds and making some effort to learn more about it IMO. For instance...did you know you can use WIN8 as a home server OS and pool multiple drives into one single large drive (was part of WHS 1.0) to store your content? Check out We Got Served to learn more about the potential of Win8. I promise it won't hurt you to at least open your mind to the idea.

Most people resist change.... especially when they do not understand the advantages of the change. In time, I believe people will be less afraid of the transition.

Regarding Apple...well that again is your opinion...but I know its not case for everyone. No one in my family uses an Iproduct. All have Android OS phones and are quite satisfied with them. Now it may a case that my family is simply more apt at this than you give everyone credit.

In the end.... everyone will buy what they want...and thats fine with me.

I choose to retain full control over my content and how I get/load my content.

For example, I'm streaming my music through my tablet at work from my own personal cloud (WHS) using Subsonic. I own the content and I retain full control of it. With Apple...Apple has total control over your accounts and CAN cancel your account and delete all your content if they choose....with out recourse. Its in the Terms of Agreement.

Most people who are clueless tend to give up their freedom of choice...willingly IMO.

I don't think my family is all that unique...but maybe we simply like to think outside the parameters Apple wants people to think/feel.

Best wishes on your choice, but I fully disagree with your opinion.

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 11:11:39 AM , Rating: 2
From the article....did you read it?

I did. And re-read it, just to make sure. It makes no such reference to Win8 causing a decline in Apple sales.

In fact, the word "Apple" doesn't even exist in the article.

As for my opinion on Win8 - it's clearly the vastly more popular opinion than your's. Win8 is a total clusterf%ck. The Metrosexual UI is a square wheel trying to replace a round wheel. Any nice things that are bonuses in Win8 compared to Win7 are irrelevant in the face of having to deal with that horrifically malformed UI.

Luckily, Start8 et al are available to fix Microsoft's tragically broken OS, making it useful for actual people. Without such utilities, it's a Fisher-Price toy designed for, and by, children.

By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 11:15:44 AM , Rating: 2
Again, read the actual article. This is not the article.

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 11:22:27 AM , Rating: 2
See my reply above.

This is *the* article. You're making comments about another article, someplace else.

You should have actually said that, instead of saying "the article" - which by any stretch of logic would refer to *this* article, here, on this page.

By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 12:21:58 PM , Rating: 2
This is NOT the article. This is dailytech's summary of the article. The article referenced throughout is the IDC's actual report. I'm sorry you were confused, but a little critical thinking is necessary in these comments, I suppose.

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 11:26:35 AM , Rating: 2
This is really the only statement made about Apple in that *other* article:

Apple fared better than the overall U.S. market, but still saw shipments decline as its own PCs also face competition from iPads.

There's nothing in the article assigning blame or giving a free pass on any of this.

But I would speculate that perhaps the most clear reason why any decline in Apple sales isn't due to Windows 8 is probably the fact that Apple products don't come with Windows 8.

By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 12:23:00 PM , Rating: 2
You're kidding right? The entire article is lambasting Windows 8 for the decline of PC sales but it gives ONE line to Apple's decline? You don't see how this is just a little bit suspicious?

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 12:41:45 PM , Rating: 2
No. If Windows 8 had anything to do with Apple, I might...but as it is, and as I noted above, Apple products don't come with Win8. Ergo, people's hatred for Win8 categorically can't be responsible for Apple declines.

In fact, if anything, logic dictates that if people hate Win8 (they do), then they'd look for alternatives. Apple is an alternative to Win8.

By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 12:53:28 PM , Rating: 2
And yet its shipments are down. So, obviously, this probably has nothing to do with Windows 8. Which again, points out how biased the IDC's opinions appear to be.

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 1:35:21 PM , Rating: 3
What the...what?

OK first of all, I agree that the IDC, Gartner, Forrester, et al are full of sh1t on a full-time basis. I get that.

What I don't get is what point you think you're making. I really don't.

What is it that you think the IDC should have blamed for Apple's decline? It can't be Windows 8. It pretty much has to be Android. Or...WTF are you thinking?

By Varun on 4/11/2013 11:41:40 PM , Rating: 3
Um, maybe what he's saying is that if PC sales are DOWN due to Windows 8, why are Apple sales down? Your answer is Android.

More likely it's Android and iOS that is taking sales from Apple - but they are more than likely ALSO taking sales from Windows.

The netbook revolution kickstarted Windows XP and then 7 sales, but that low end of the market is essentially gone now to tablets.

Also, IDC is not counting Windows 8 tablets as PCs either, so their numbers are skewed.

In the end, this is doom and gloom for PC makers who suck (HP and Dell) and Lenovo is kicking butt because they know how to make well built machines that look great too.

By Ammohunt on 4/11/2013 12:00:51 PM , Rating: 3
Like it has been stated before Microsoft's main mistake with Windows 8 was lack of UI choice for a tradition of leaving the previous interface in the OS to allow people to transition to the Metro interface; it was forced on them with only "Trust us its better" people decided differently and people like me get to wipe Windows 8 off of old ladies laptops in order to put something familiar back on it like Windows 7(True Story).

That being said Windows 8 Tablet is not on my shopping list this year a new iPad for the old lady is. If i ever decided i needed one myself i would sooner go with a Nexus Tablet i believe i am not alone in this opinion. Windows 8 is a total and utter failure.

By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 12:23:49 PM , Rating: 1
The old UI is still in Windows 8.

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 12:42:42 PM , Rating: 2
Not having this argument again.

No, it's not. Parts of it are, fragmented about. But your assertion is false.

Just stop.

Win8 is a total trainwreck, and it is well and truly killing the Windows computer market.

By datdamonfoo on 4/12/2013 9:44:10 AM , Rating: 2
No, my assertions are not false. I actually use Windows 8 so I know what I'm talking about. You, on the other hand, just hear things 3rd hand.

By Motoman on 4/12/2013 11:43:02 AM , Rating: 2
Nope. I've had to fix Win8 up for a few people who can't use it. Have had plenty of time to decide for myself whether or not it's a POS.

It is.

By datdamonfoo on 4/12/2013 12:45:26 PM , Rating: 2
Tell me how it's a POS. Tell me just how different it is from Windows 7. Apparently I'm using it wrong because I've had no trouble with it. It works just like it did when I had Windows 7.

By Motoman on 4/12/2013 6:02:58 PM , Rating: 2
As noted, not having this argument again. Everyone with a brain has stated their reasons why Win8 is a massive POS an infinite number of times on an infinite number of websites, including this one.

You don't get to pretend you haven't seen them. Case closed. Go crawl back in your hole.

By Motoman on 4/12/2013 6:05:26 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and just for the sake of irony: RTFA.

Windows 8 launch not only failed to provide a positive boost to the PC market, but appears to have slowed the market

...did you actually read this article? Win8 is such a trainwreck, and considered to be a POS by so many people, that it's actually what's causing the massive decrease in computer sales. So go back to suckling at Steve Ballmer's teat. The grown-ups have better things to do than keep babysitting the toddlers who want to play with their Fisher-Price UI.

By xti on 4/11/2013 12:03:01 PM , Rating: 2
the drop in sales is the form factor switch, more than anything...much more than whatever effect people think windows8 has.

if people cant see that they are just getting tablets because youtube and angry birds is the most processing power they need then idk what to tell ya...its obvious.

anything blaming any kind of majority blame on win8 is just hating.

By spamreader1 on 4/11/2013 11:41:19 AM , Rating: 3
Apples customer loyalty has been on decline. Their perception is having a paradigm shift again.

By 91TTZ on 4/11/2013 3:18:46 PM , Rating: 3
I'll answer that question.

I'm an Apple hater. Never had a Mac, never want one. Don't like Mac fans.

I'm a Microsoft guy and have been for 20 years. Even I hate Windows 8.

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 3:26:18 PM , Rating: 2
While I would second both of those motions...the question he posed actually doesn't make sense.

His assertion is that Windows 8 *caused* a decline in Apple sales?

Which makes not the slightest bit of sense.

First of all, Apple products don't come with Windows 8. So, if people are avoiding Win8, Apple isn't negatively affected by that.

Secondly, if people are avoiding Win8 (they are), they probably go off looking for alternatives - like iThings. Logically, the failure of Win8, if it has any impact on Apple sales at all, would *increase* Apple sales. Not decrease them.

Thirdly, I don't think it's any secret that Apple's downfall lately has been Android. Android is what's eating Apple's lunch - not Microsoft.

By Belard on 4/12/2013 9:46:09 AM , Rating: 2
I hate both apple and Microsoft. But I buy what works... Be it windows7 or the iPad I'm using to type this response with.

Until winXP, Microsoft had substandard operating systems.

By Motoman on 4/11/2013 10:43:04 AM , Rating: 2
Tablets *are* computers. Hence the term "tablet computer." Frankly, the best possible description of a tablet is it's a laptop without a keyboard.

Attach a tablet to a keyboard, like the $15 folder-style units on Amazon, and *boom* - laptop. For ~$165 you can have the Android version of Microsoft Surface.

The tablet is nothing more than a new form factor of computer. It's part of the computer industry. And really, cell phones have evolved into computers in their own right...indeed, the only significant difference between a nice smart phone and a tablet is the size of the device.

We need to stop crying about "oh, tablets and smart phones are killing computer sales!" Tablets and smart phones *are* computer sales. They function well for, and perform well for, providing much if not all of the functionality that people have traditionally used either desktops or laptop computers for.

It's a new form factor of computer - and that's really it. Just like way back in the day a minicomputer was the size of a closet, and then suddenly computers were small enough to sit on your desk. And then later, to sit on your lap. Now they're small enough to just be held up in one hand. This is a perfect evolutionary continuum of the computer itself.

So if any traditional desktop/laptop manufacturers think they're losing revenue to tablets and smart phones - guess what? You'd probably better start making tablets and smart phones. Because they're part and parcel of the computer industry. How many computer OEMs still exist that refused to embrace the laptop form factor? Exactly. So why are the big OEMs for the most part not embracing these new form factors?

Get with the program. Either you want to compete in the computer industry or you don't. And if you do want to compete in the computer industry, you'd better be serious about these new form factors. Because if you're not producing computers in these form factors, you're going to become irrelevant pretty quick.

RE: Newsflash
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 11:06:49 AM , Rating: 2
BTW, this is the sort of keyboard/folder thing I'm talking about:

$13, and eligible for free shipping if your total order is at least $25. So, maybe add a cheap mouse to the mix while you're at it.

Get a ~10" Android tablet for about $150, something like this one I picked more or less at random:

*Bam* Surface. It's a tablet and a laptop. Yay!

RE: Newsflash
By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 11:17:13 AM , Rating: 2
So any tablet is a Surface?
That is some crazy reaching.

RE: Newsflash
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 11:29:31 AM , Rating: 2
No, it's not.

Not in terms of suddenly it magically becomes a Microsoft Surface product. Just like putting some Goodyear Gatorbacks on your pickup truck doesn't turn it into a Corvette.

But in terms of what the *vast* majority of people are going to do with a tablet/laptop? Yeah...pretty much the same thing. People surf the web, troll Facebook, and play Angry Birds.

The cheap Android thing will do all that just as well as a Microsoft Surface.

RE: Newsflash
By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 12:29:56 PM , Rating: 2
Then, along those same lines, why would someone need an Envy or MacBook when cheaper laptops exist? Why would someone need a 50' Plasma or LCD TV when a 13' CRT will do just fine?

Completely ignoring quality and performance by saying they do the same things is a glib way to look at things.

RE: Newsflash
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 12:46:32 PM , Rating: 1
Nope. Wrong again.

Look at what the *vast* majority of people do on their tablets. They surf the web, they post on Facebook, and they play some simple little games.

The extra horsepower of a more expensive tablet won't help in those uses. It's irrelevant. That person's experience is going to be *exactly* the same whether they're using a $100 Android tablet or a $800 Surface. It will make no difference.

Your analogies are false. Watching a movie on a 50" screen is a totally different experience from watching on a 13" screen. It is in no way analogous to an average user doing average things on an inexpensive Android tablet compared to an expensive Microsoft (or Apple for that matter) tablet of the same size.

RE: Newsflash
By datdamonfoo on 4/11/2013 12:55:16 PM , Rating: 1
You have the blinders on. People still want performance boosts. Just because something is functional doesn't mean it works well. Saying that a 7 inch, slow Android tablet is the same as a 10 inch, fully featured Surface is just as insane as saying that a 50 inch tv screen is the same as a 13 inch tv screen. And since you agree on the latter, you must admit the former.

RE: Newsflash
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 1:32:26 PM , Rating: 2
Nope. Because it's not slower.

All the the average things that an average user does on a tablet happen just as quickly on a cheap Android tablet as they do on a big-dollar iPad or Surface.

I don't have to admit anything, because you've made a false statement in support of your "theory."

RE: Newsflash
By datdamonfoo on 4/12/2013 9:47:52 AM , Rating: 2
Again, you can't claim that people want plasma or LCDs and not CRTs due to the performance and feature gains (they'll still be watching the same content) and yet claim the opposite for computers. I'm not sure why you don't see this. And you really think that $200 Android tablets aren't slower than a $1000 tablet? Let's not be disingenuous here.

RE: Newsflash
By Motoman on 4/12/2013 11:52:47 AM , Rating: 4
You're still making false comparisons.

It's obvious that a modern widescreen HD 1080p LCD TV is a much better TV viewing experience than a 20-year old 4:3 13" CRT. There's obviously no comparison. Watching a movie side-by-side on those 2 TVs is night-and-day different.

Now, take off your dunce cap and set a 10" $100 Android tablet next to a 10" $800 Microsoft Surface and a 10" $600 iPad.

Have an average person browse the web on each one. No difference.

Have an average person post on Facebook on each one. No difference.

Have an average person check their email on each one. No difference.

Have an average person play Angry Birds on each one. No difference.

You, sir, are the one being disingenuous. It is 100% irrefutable that to a normal person doing normal things, there is 0% difference in their experience using an inexpensive Android tablet vs. very expensive Surface or iPad tablets.

Does the Surface have superior hardware? Sure. Does it make a difference to the average user doing average things? No.

Same thing if you compare my gaming rig to a $300 special PC at Walmart. My person rig has a 6-core CPU, 16Gb of RAM, a Radeon 7850 video card, a SSD, so on and so forth. Infinitely better specs than the $300 special. So if I had my mom check her email, do Facebook, browse the web and then play Words with Friends on my gaming rig, compared to the $300 special, do you think she would notice any difference?

Answer: no, she would not. The vastly better hardware in my gaming rig compared to the $300 special is utterly irrelevant. A total waste of money for the average user.

Get that through your thick head. You've not got the slightest clue what the real world is like.

RE: Newsflash
By datdamonfoo on 4/12/2013 12:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
Once again you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
You put a LCD TV next to a CRT and they still will play the same TV shows. There is no difference in the content being played.

And yet for some reason you believe that features and performance matters with TVs but not computers. You're wrong about there being no difference between a $600 Surface (not $800 as you falsely state) and a $100 Android tablet. There are numerous performance gains and larger multitasking abilities that the Android tablet will simply not be able to handle. You pay for what you get. This is why people aren't buying netbooks anymore; Sure, they're cheap, but with that they're severely under-powered and frustrating.

Let's run this experiment, shall we?
Put a $100 Windows 7 netbook next to a $200 Android tablet.
Sure, they both run Angry birds. Sure they both allow you to check your email, both allow you to surf the web. But what do you think people are going to buy?

Let's see if you can be honest or if you will continue your argument that has been reduced to shambles long ago.

RE: Newsflash
By Motoman on 4/12/2013 1:33:02 PM , Rating: 2
If they want a netbook, they'll but the netbook. If they want a tablet, they'll buy the tablet.

Let's be clear: you have no point. My example is comparing 3 10" tablets side-by-side. Your example is comparing a 13" CRT to a modern widescreen LCD/Plasma TV.

Your assertions that there are "numerous performance gains etc." are worthless to the average user. The average user with a tablet behaves the way I have described. I guarantee this to be correct.

If you want to continue to insist that your comparisons are equivalent, I'm sorry...but you're a liar. And/or clinically insane. Possibly both.

My argument is irrefutable. You actually have made no argument at all. Please stop wasting space that could be better occupied by...nothing.

RE: Newsflash
By bsd228 on 4/11/2013 3:01:56 PM , Rating: 2
No, Moto is correct. The greater majority of things people do with their computer are interactive in nature - read/write email, read a browser screen. The user is the limiting factor in speed - we can only read and type so fast...and computers caught up to that many many years ago. Only the gamers and hi def video watchers needed more, and we now have specialized chips as a norm for handling the video functions with minimal cpu.

This is the heart of why PC sales are declining. The only significant upgrade to the experience for most users in the past 5 years was the SSD.

There will always be users that need more - for gaming, for video editing, for photoshop type work, etc. But this is a much smaller population of people. Millions seem happy with their iphone pics, FFS. Tablets are now powerful enough to take care of their needs, at a much better form factor and battery endurance.

RE: Newsflash
By Mint on 4/16/2013 6:39:06 AM , Rating: 2
The funny thing is that while Moto is correct here, he refused to apply his very own insight towards the PC market and instead blames Windows 8.

The PC market was flooded with netbook sales for those who wanted a cheap computer for simple tasks. Those sales have now been displaced by tablets. Apple had no netbook bubble, and no Windows 8, yet they are still losing Mac sales.

Windows 8 has nothing to do with the decline of PC sales. It didn't resurrect them, but only a fool would have expected so anyway.

RE: Newsflash
By troysavary on 4/12/2013 4:56:48 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, a 1024x600 tablet with a Cortex A8 processor and a 2 hour battery life is EXACTLY the same user experience as a Surface. Try reading the reviews of that $15 keyboard too. Great device except for the fact that most of the keys don't work. Idiot.

RE: Newsflash
By Motoman on 4/12/2013 5:59:39 PM , Rating: 2
You've just established the irrefutable fact that you're the idiot.

I've seen a number of those keypads. They work fine. Don't like them? OK. Spend more money on a different one. The point remains the same.

As for the comparison of your 1024x600 tablet vs. a Surface being EXACTLY the same...that is correct. From the viewpoint of the *vast* majority of people who are in the market for tablets. Oh, and forget the bit about the 2 hour battery wife has been using a cheap Coby tablet for over a year now - that battery seems to last forever. But whatever you have to tell yourself to get through the night.

Here's what the average person does on a tablet: surf the web, post on Facebook, check their email, play Words with Friends. So please...explain to me how any of those things are going to be any better on a high-dollar Surface tablet vs. the cheapest Android thing you can put your hands on.

RE: Newsflash
By xti on 4/11/2013 12:14:25 PM , Rating: 1
it may to you. it doesnt to OEMs where this is a very different segment and that is why we split it up.


just because you add a freaking keyboard to it doesn't all of a sudden merge the markets.

RE: Newsflash
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 12:48:07 PM , Rating: 2
The market is already "merged."

By the very point of the fact that one says "I bought a tablet to do X instead of a laptop or desktop" demonstrates, irrefutably, that it's one market.

All are computers. All perform computing tasks. Consumers can freely choose whichever form factor they most prefer to perform their computing tasks.

One market.

RE: Newsflash
By Tony Swash on 4/11/13, Rating: 0
RE: Newsflash
By Belard on 4/11/13, Rating: 0
RE: Newsflash
By xti on 4/11/2013 3:32:28 PM , Rating: 1
yes dude...because servers and tablets are on the same field...

think about all the diffent products that go into each type...maybe from a consumer point of view they are just 'shiny things that compute' but from the business point of view, they are apples and oranges.

think outside the box.

no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By elleehswon on 4/11/2013 10:41:49 AM , Rating: 2
because people have caught on that you can have your 10 year old son/cousin/neighborhood kid build a roaring machine from components for 1/3rd the cost of a comparable hp/dell/whaever, pc sales should be expected to sink.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 10:58:44 AM , Rating: 2
Right. You honestly think the BYO enthusiast market is making a significant dent in OEM sales?

You're lost.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By elleehswon on 4/11/2013 11:12:56 AM , Rating: 2
yes, yes i think it does make a significant dent. in the past 10 years, i've upgraded my components 5 times. I've also sold off the old components save the pc case and peripherals. so, i've had 5 opportunities to buy an oem and gone the BYO self instead. the people that have bought my old hardware have passed up oem 4 times.

So, you don't think that adds up?

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 11:15:45 AM , Rating: 2
So, you don't think that adds up?

I know it doesn't. You're such a tiny percentage of the overall computer market that it just doesn't matter. You're a rounding error.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By xti on 4/11/2013 12:04:47 PM , Rating: 2
its true. enthusiast/DIY make up next to nothing. just accept it, geeks are a minority.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By GotThumbs on 4/11/2013 11:15:36 AM , Rating: 2
It may be a small %, but not insignificant IMO.

Everyone in my family (parents and brothers) has a custom built PC (AMD powered),except for the five laptops. Two of us have our own servers that hold our movie/music collections. I'm streaming music at work from my server RTM. I've also built five systems and one server for a friend's small business as well.

Don't underestimate the number of DIYers out there. It's not really hard to build ones own system. It's simply a choice one makes IMO.

You've heard of NewEgg? Haven't you?

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 11:19:11 AM , Rating: 2
I spend thousands of dollars a year at Newegg. And Micro Center, and other places.

However, I'm not too dim to realize that for every person who builds their own PC, there's hundreds, possibly thousands, of people who just buy a prebuilt one at Best Buy or wherever else.

You can build your own furniture too. So...did you make your own dining room table, or did you just go buy one? You can pretty easily assemble your own have a home-made radio anywhere? With a hammer and a saw, you could build your own house. Or did you buy a house that someone else had built?

The enthusiast BYO market is tiny. Disappearingly so. As a percentage of the overall computer market, it is the very definition of insignificant.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By elleehswon on 4/11/2013 2:24:46 PM , Rating: 2

You can pretty easily assemble your own have a home-made radio anywhere? i have. crystal radio..sup.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 3:04:05 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sure you do.

I'm going to guess, though, that the fact that *you* made your own radio isn't going to be the basis of your further assertion then that "nobody" buys radios anymore, because you can build your own.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By elleehswon on 4/11/2013 5:04:32 PM , Rating: 2
i never said that.. i just believe there are tons, and tons of barebones/component built pc's everywhere.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 5:33:27 PM , Rating: 2
I was actually pointing out that you hadn't said that...

Regardless, the fact that there are "tons" of BYO computers out there doesn't change the fact that it's a statistically irrelevant portion of the overall market.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By bsd228 on 4/11/2013 3:11:46 PM , Rating: 2
because people have caught on that you can have your 10 year old son/cousin/neighborhood kid build a roaring machine from components for 1/3rd the cost of a comparable hp/dell/whaever, pc sales should be expected to sink.

1/3rd? Have you actually done this, and who is the vendor you're comparing to?

I've built one or two computers a year since the 90s. Rarely is there considerable cost savings. Dell and HP buy by the 1000s, I buy by the one. And PC margins have been thin since the 90s, which is why you don't see many local computer stores anymore. The vanilla PC sales model doesn't pay off.

No, I build so that for roughly the same money (+/- 10%), I can pick the components and avoid any marginal parts taken to save $10 in profit. I am particularly picky about the case and the power supply and will pay substantially more than then had I gone with those big vendors.

Even if you look at someone like Puget Sound, a boutique that makes some really well engineered PCs for a very substantial markup, you're not seeing a 3:1 price differential on parts. They might be at 50% over, and that's if you discount time and their experimentation. Which is valuable. If you're only making one at a time once a year like me, you learn much more slowly than if you're doing one a week. This is particularly notable in the quiet PC space that PS is well known for.

RE: no one is buying prebuilt pc's
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 3:38:41 PM , Rating: 2
Here's an HP unit right on their website for $319.

Dual-core CPU, 4Gb RAM, 500Gb HD, etc. etc. And Win8, naturally.

I'm sure he could build that for ~$106.

You can only really save money when you're talking about building a gaming rig, or maybe a server. There's big margin in those. Regular, mainstream desktops (and laptops) have little, if any, margin. The really cheap stuff, potentially like this $319 desktop, are often sold as loss-leaders to try to get you to buy more stuff on top of it.

By TakinYourPoints on 4/12/2013 1:48:23 AM , Rating: 2
I've only built my own PCs since the mid-90s, and I know that I'm a tiny niche of the overall market.

People who build their own PCs barely register as a blip against mainstream PC sales from OEMs. It wasn't enough to boost PC numbers back when it was booming and it isn't enough to eat away at OEM numbers now that they're in trouble.

It is really myopic to think that the DIY crowd makes that much of an impact in comparison, and I've been building for almost 20 years. Enterprise sales alone dwarfs the DIY market.

End of moore's law
By zephyrprime on 4/11/2013 10:39:24 AM , Rating: 2
It's because pc's have stopped getting faster. It used to be for ~20 years that every 18 months brought a 100% increase in performance. Now 18 months brings maybe 10%? That small increase in performance is not worth upgrading for.

RE: End of moore's law
By GotThumbs on 4/11/2013 10:40:57 AM , Rating: 2
Also true.

An easy upgrade for any old desktop or laptop would be to install an SSD drive to replace the old spinning disk.

An SSD breaths new life into any old system IMO.

RE: End of moore's law
By Motoman on 4/11/2013 10:45:24 AM , Rating: 2
What do you need your computer to go faster for?

We hit a plateau of need for additional hardware power some time ago. There's just nothing that a normal person needs to do that can't be done with massive amounts of processing power leftover already...been this way for years.

Gaming will continue to drive innovation for that specific use of computers...there's always going to be a desire for yet-more-realistic graphics.

But for the average user? A 10-year old computer, eventual hardware failure notwithstanding, probably could do everything that user ever needs to do for the rest of their lives.

RE: End of moore's law
By Fidget on 4/11/2013 11:10:15 AM , Rating: 2
This can not be overstated. I've been telling people this for years. Computer hardware reached a point of dimishing returns about 10 years ago. A decent computer that was bought within the last 10 years simply still has hardware good enough for most average users. Literally unless you are running some intense video editing software or a hardcore gamer what do you need the extra power for? How fast do you need to be able to open facebook or pull up a word document? But people are dumb and go out in droves like mindless zombies to buy the latest shinny object they are selling when most everything they do could be handled by a 10 year old PC running XP.

RE: End of moore's law
By 91TTZ on 4/11/2013 3:41:24 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with this line of reasoning. A PC has become an appliance like a washing machine. It serves a purpose and it's useful until it breaks. It's not going to be obsolete in 3 years like was the case back in the 90's.

Sell more models with Win7-problem solved
By TheJian on 4/12/2013 2:05:28 AM , Rating: 3
The problem is you have VERY few choices of win7 machines and 95% of us don't want win8 (it's sales are worse than Vista). How do you stop killing sales? Put Win7 as an option for EVERY SINGLE pc you have on your site for sale.

Boom, like magic, problem solved and pc sales pick up again.

People will be content to wait this out, and now win8.1 which is just win8 again. You will hinder sales until you do the above. Windows won't mean much to me even as it stands now once Valve ports their whole catalog to linux for steambox. I'll use google for apps (or any other office suite for free or cheap) then linux/android for games.

Note to MS: You have until Valve get games on steambox (and android gets unreal3 engine style games) to sell me an OS I actually want without DRM hindrance in any way, before you are useless to me. Explorer better work without the need for XYplorer/Total Commander/xplorer2 etc...Quit messing with my daily use stuff that slows me down or at least give me a box to check to undo it and make it like XP verbatim. Pretty graphics mean nothing if I work half as fast or less to see them. I'll take XP Explorer in the next OS please. I have no use for anything that's been put in explorer since XP (dumb libraries etc...useless). I have almost no use for the new stuff in Win7. Stop hiding stuff from me in the OS also. In XP everything was about a click or two away, but with each next rev (7 & 8) you added more clicks to get the same stuff done. WHY? No thanks.

Bring back the freaking rightclick network repair also (you can create a batch file that does the 7 operations, but why MS why?). I could go on and on about the useless crap you force me through today that I used to resolve in seconds. In 9/10 situations I can just right click repair ethernet, but you force me through troubleshooting, or going into network connections panel etc to enable/disable the connection (which does some functions) etc to get the same crap as a simple right click->repair. Raise your hand if you know you can do the operations with a bat file? Raise you hand if you even know what I'm talking about. Why should anyone need to do any of this or need to know what I'm talking about. It never should have went away, just like the start button. Sure there's a new way of doing things...But if it doesn't make me a LOT faster, what is the point? It's just different (and slower). Is that supposed to make me pay again? That's not enough.

Charm bar works like start menu blah blah? How did it improve my life on a PC? It does nothing, it's just different. I laugh when I here win8 lovers say "you can do the same thing in win8 by doing this...". Why? I could already do it in xp/7 faster. New for the sake of new is dumb. Win8 should have been PURE mobile, not foisted on my desktop (which 8.1 will further do again and won't work either). PC sales will lag until the industry just stops selling win8 and tells MS we're going back to win7 and will no longer sell win8 on ANY pc. Now what MS? :) They have the power to kill this OS. They need to collectively get together and decide to do this so MS can just stick this OS and go away until Win9 or something.

By Belard on 4/12/2013 9:38:59 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed with pretty uh everything you said up there. The market is lost, MS took their time to copy from others (not GUI design but markets to enter), banking on their muscle to take over the mobile space when they feel like it, but that boat has sailed. What does winRT/phone do that an android or iOS device can't? Other than their half-ass office... Nothing, and most people don't give a crap.

They DON'T need to go back to winXP, win7 already had that option included. Only thing missing from win7 is the UP button in explorer and not spending seconds thinking about what is in a directory. This have been fixed in win8. So, take the good parts of win8 and cut out the garbage... And bring back the preview version of the Aero skin... Not the ugly crap to make the desktop ugly. Office 2013 needs to be fixed to not blind you, but also their new pricing makes office a ripoff. So much so that I had clients buy O2010 while they can.

As we noticed last month, MS changed their stance on O2013 in which the retail install was tied to the hardware. Sorry, only an idiot would buy an oem version of office to save $20, when they could have actual media and reinstall rights.

Microsoft has done nothing but screw up after screw up in the past 18 months. So screw them. They have FAILED in every thing. They failed the PC gamer with NOT supporting pc gaming. I bought Gears of War for PC, it was great... I would have bought the other Gears games and Halo, this is MS throwing turds in our face. I'm not buying an Xbox, ever! Period! PC gaming has been killed by MS, hopefully it'll move to Linux. And I am waiting for the PS4 now. Sorry, but games look kick ass on a 55" HDTV, far bigger than my 24" desktop display.

By Motoman on 4/12/2013 12:49:52 PM , Rating: 3
While I'd obviously be fine if MS just kept offering Win7 alongside Win8, if they just put the option in Win8 to not use the Metrosexual UI, Win8 would be fine.

Just put the Start button back, and give the option to boot to the actual desktop. Do what Start8 does.

Problem solved. That's all it would take.

And yes, DTers know that there's free utilities that will do that for you. 99% of the consumer base doesn't know that, and wouldn't do it if you told them anyway. They want it to work out of the box...and Win8 doesn't work out of the box.

30 seconds of someone's time could fix the problem and get Windows/PC sales back on track. But MS is too arrogant to do that. They'd rather sink the industry than admit they're wrong.

take it with a grain of salt....
By GotThumbs on 4/11/2013 10:39:39 AM , Rating: 2
"At this point, unfortunately, it seems clear that the Windows 8 launch not only failed to provide a positive boost to the PC market, but appears to have slowed the market,"

Within two months, my brother purchased two new Win8 Laptops.

Just because a new OS comes out....does not mean everyone will rush out to buy a whole new computer.

I really don't see that the current drop in PC sales should be a huge surprise to anyone and thus not really a huge story. Most gaming is now done on dedicated consoles. The general population of computer users never/rarely stresses their current systems when all they do is check email or FB. They can do both using their smartphone or newly purchased tablet.

PC's can last for quite some time without needing to be replaced and the current trend of using smartphones/tablets further reduces the need/demand for PC's. It's only logical there would be a drop. Most people rarely use their home PC for anything other than email, web-browsing, and FB.

It's simply a natural evolution. If anything, I think there could/should be a move to transition each homes desktop PC to a personal server/cloud. Software such as Subsonic can be loaded onto a desktop using your current OS, allowing you to stream your collection to your tablet/phone. You can even load an NAS OS or WHS2011 which transforms your desktop to a full blown server which can be used as a central storage location for all your families docs, photos, movies and music. WHS will even backup your families laptops.

By amanojaku on 4/11/2013 11:54:09 AM , Rating: 2
I don't believe Win8 has much to do with it, either. People just don't line up to buy a $500+ PC just because a new OS comes out, especially when it can run on existing hardware. Well, maybe the Macolytes do, but they're used to shelling out ridiculous sums of money for anything "new"...

My Windows PC finally died after seven years, and it did everything I needed because I didn't game on it. MS Office, Hulu, Netflix, YouTube, VLC for my DVDs and CDs... All in HD with 5.1 surround sound.

I just serviced a woman's OS X PC, which was also seven years old. It did all of the Office tasks she needed, without an upgrade in all that time. And it was her main PC, despite the fact that she had a new MacBook Air.

PC's are simply more reliable than they used to be, and the performance gains aren't necessary for the average user. Add to that the rise of the smartphone, tablet and console. I don't have either of the first two, but my Wii is now doing the media work that my PC did, minus VLC and MS Office. In fact, if Office came out for the Wii, and the Wii supported network storage and more CODECS, I would probably never buy a PC again.

MS needs to do what Apple is doing: focus on the smartphone and tablet. And it needs to make Office available on the next Xbox Whatever for a reasonable price (no subscriptions), since the user base is reportedly 76 million. Windows is increasingly becoming a business-only OS, and businesses are slow to upgrade, especially in light of unnecessary performance and complexity.

such hypocrasy
By xti on 4/11/2013 12:12:20 PM , Rating: 1
how can everyone on DT say "sheeps buy apple no matter what" saying the masses just buy buy buy.

then turn around...and say "win8 made people open their minds" and not buy.

really? win8 hasn't slowed anything down, the need for new laptops/desktops is declining.

Everytime a quake game came out, back in the days, you had to upgrade. you HAD to. its not the same way anymore, performance is for the most part above needs of the average consumer. so why keep replacing your lap/desktop?

So, until crysis 34978 computer specs or w/e the fk is the norm in EVERY SINGLE RELEASE and YouTube and GMail all of a sudden need quad cores, we have reached the point that just upgrading every 2 years is no longer necessary.

Throw in tablets ultra portability, and thats what has slowed and reversed growth. Not Win8.

Metro would need naked women every 5 minutes to revive the laptop boom.

RE: such hypocrasy
By retrospooty on 4/11/2013 7:52:12 PM , Rating: 2
"Everytime a quake game came out, back in the days, you had to upgrade. you HAD to. its not the same way anymore, performance is for the most part above needs of the average consumer. so why keep replacing your lap/desktop?"

Yup... That was me to a T. I cant even imagine how much cash I spent on upgrades year after year for the past 15 years... But even people like me stopped. I have a 2 year old Sandy Bridge, which is the longest I have ever kept a CPU or mobo by far... And I have no plans to upgrade. There just isnt anything I do that utilizes the power I have now. PC's have been crazy fast for years now and there just isnt a need to upgrade. Possibly a video card if yours is a few years old and you want to play Crysis 3 with FSAA at high res... but that is a niche and a half.

PCs have matured
By TakinYourPoints on 4/11/2013 6:14:38 PM , Rating: 3
I posted about this in the Hon Hai thread yesterday. I reckon that this is a huge reason for their drop in income this quarter since they manufacture for almost every OEM out there.

Dell and others are so quick to jump on blaming Windows 8 for their troubles, but I don't think that's so simple. Windows 8 isn't very good but it doesn't do enough to explain the decline in hardware sales.

Its more important that PCs last much longer than they used to and everybody already has one. The time of bi-annual upgrades for consumers is over, that's it. I'm a hardcore PC gamer with a 2560x1440 display, and even I've been able to hang onto my 2009 i7 860 for three and a half years (GPU upgrade to a GTX 680 is the only upgrade I made a year ago).

I'm an edge case situation and even I haven't had much reason to upgrade. Even more gamers are happy hanging onto their old Core Duos and Quads.

Now, consider that gamers make up a niche of PC sales. If your average user or business (the bulk of PC sales) are fine with their older equipment, and they're also better served by portable electronics like smartphones and tablets that do many of the same thing they use their PC for (web, email, etc), it does a lot to explain why PC sales have slowed so much.

Win8 Failed
By sluze on 4/11/2013 11:04:24 AM , Rating: 2
Win8 failed b/c it was suppose to open up the tablet market and begin the merger between tablet and pc. If someone was on the fence about buying a new computer; Win8 pushed them to either supplement their old pc with an android tablet or wait to see if Microsoft smartens up. 'PC' sales will continue to decline until Microsoft gets their act together and puts out a product that doesn't make people want their old systems back.

If Microsoft could come up with a design ala the asus transformer that gave you windows desktop performance with the screen attached and top end tablet performance when just using the screen - with some type of emulation so you can use/open all the same files and programs seamlessly - they would truly have something. For now we are stuck with poor UI design and even poorer marketing driving people away from the platform.

Why are they suprised
By BRB29 on 4/11/2013 11:13:02 AM , Rating: 2
For most people, they don't do much that a decent can't provide. They can use their old laptop/desktop for word processing or photoshop.

It will decline but will never go away.

It's all windows 8
By TSS on 4/11/2013 4:25:44 PM , Rating: 2

I'm sure that has completly no bearing on this situation what so ever. Mild economic improvements my ass.

What is a PC ?
By mike66 on 4/11/2013 5:20:06 PM , Rating: 2
The problem with those figures is their not defining what a PC is. Do they mean Desktop or laptop or MC ( Apples less than stellar hardware, Design and looks don't matter to me ). To me there mostly directed at laptops which will suffer because of android tablets and phones, windows 8 is also partly responsible. While I feel the need to upgrade my desktop hardware parts a times and or my android phone or android tablet, my laptop is now gathering dust on the top of my cupboard.

Microsoft AND INTEL are to blame
By Nexing on 4/11/2013 11:25:42 PM , Rating: 2
This report seems to be coherent in most ideas, but it is incomplete at best.
Win8 lack of start button and forced functionalities are just symptoms of Microsoft actual Marketing Strategy based on discriminating prices by way of segmenting its products, which means for instance, they now want to sell via add-on apps their Media players and whatever functions will be needed in the future. Same as their actual offer of Office (365) yearly rent.
They see this as the initial steps to control and charge for "their Ecosystem" growth, but instead don't seem to realize that it is already costing the Industry and them.
Why? Because Microsoft insists in centralizing and owning the ecosystem. Now even manufacturing their own hardware: game consoles, tablets, phones, kinect, etc), instead of doing what they should already have done years ago: Signing integration agreements with successful external companies like Philips/GE for light controlling, Parrot, Blue tooth, and the Plethora of Audio, Video, photo, Design, Office, Engineering and else Soft/hardware makers, including house appliances and car/bikes and really everything accessories.
In sum, Microsoft has proven to not have the capacity or aim to facilitate a wide ecosystem for the user, except for their comparatively petty in-house generated initiatives in that direction... which ultimately slowed down the appearance of visible ecosystem synergies. All this while potential customers kept adopting better phones, acquiring tablets and now are postponing PC/Laptop buys.

There is another important contributing factor for the 2013 sales decline that the report fails to acknowledge: INTEL.
Yes, their centrism put the brake to their CPU and chipset offerings, particularly since their CORE families outpowered AMD products by a wide margin. To signal a proof, when they moved from Sandy to Ivy bridge, their fabrication process evolved from 32nm to 22nm, but customers only saw a 6% of performance increase, while many of the thermal and associated potential battery gains , were discarded when INTEL replaced the CPU's efficient enclosure soldered joint with a worse thermal paste instead. This was expensive arrogance as we now know. Another example is INTEL refusal to replace the chipset lithography fabrication process, that was kept at 90 nm till this year (possibly they were focused in keeping active their extensive old plants, a consequence of their long standing refusal to manufacture for third parties).
These two potential upgrades could have yielded important battery life improvements for Laptops and Ultrabooks (and notebooks) allowing those to compete in a crucial comparison factor with the ever-popular tablets and other small mobiles.

Add all said to their dominating position that permits INTEL and Microsoft to pretend keeping their respective Chips and OS prices at the same levels they have been costing to manufacturers, who in turn have suffered the major impact in lowering sales and thinning margins...
In fairness, these two companies both share a significant part of the blame for the actual Low Sales situation.

By TheJian on 4/12/2013 2:13:36 AM , Rating: 2
It's tough to get customization at dell/hp etc for win7 they seem to force more win8 thus getting hit harder. But you can get 40 laptops with win7 still (I'm sure the desktops shows the same).

Forcing your customers to win8 will cost you sales. Plain and simple, we don't want it.

By cyberserf on 4/12/2013 3:15:52 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft used to be a beast in the 90's. they crushed their competitors what ever it took.

Now they have completely lost track. They are so clueless. They go make an console but at the cost of their PC games sales. They rarely make any games now for the PC. They should be trying to expand their market not let it stagnate.

they should just take out the lame Metro UI for W8 and put XP UI over it so it would be XP UI with all the improvements. then watch the sales skyrocket.

also where is DX12? where is ddr4? etc..


By mritter1981 on 4/12/2013 5:23:43 AM , Rating: 2
Hmm, a global economic downturn. PC's lasting longer. Then Win8, and tablet/phone "consumption devices" to cap it off. I wonder why PC purchases have experienced a downturn, don't you?

What about "The Cloud" effect?
By PCMerlin on 4/12/2013 11:48:16 AM , Rating: 2
One of the key selling points of Cloud computing is that the hardware use to connect to it does not have to be top of the line. As long as the system has the ability to connect to the internet, then you are all set. Every system displays the same data on the screen at the same rate, so a bigger, faster, newer computer only gets you to the login prompt faster, but then all of the benefits disappear after that.

Businesses used to replace their computers every three to five years. I have several that I support that are still using desktops made in 2003 and will continue to use them until they break. Replacing it is as simple as uplugging it and plugging in another old clunker as there are no programs installed and no user data on the machine.
As long as this is the case, what is the incentive to upgrade?

An exemplary error
By Tony Swash on 4/12/2013 7:06:58 AM , Rating: 1
The nature of Microsoft's blunder in it's strategic response to the rise of mobile devices is perfectly exposed by it's recent priorities. Faced with exploding sales for powerful mobile computing devices it should have prioritised producing a well designed version of Office for iOS and Android with a top quality touch interface and combined that with an update for Windows using the familiar UI (instead of the pointlessly challenging Windows 8 interface) with clever integration features so users of the iOS and Android version of Office could work seamlessly with their Windows PCs.

If Microsoft had done that in a timely way, say a year ago, they could by now have been on the way to being a major software player in the mobile device arena instead of an irrelevance. It's the obsession with focussing on defending Windows that is crippling the company's strategic decision making.

Microsoft needs to wake up to the fact that they will never be a major OS player on mobile devices. That game is lost forever. But there is still much to play for, however the clock is ticking and unless they move fast quite soon all of Microsoft's software empire will be essentially irrelevant in the vast new mobile device markets.

The world's largest software company missed the emergence of world's largest new software market and ended up with no presence in it. Shockingly incompetent.

"I f***ing cannot play Halo 2 multiplayer. I cannot do it." -- Bungie Technical Lead Chris Butcher

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