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  (Source: Hybrid News Demo)

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Hopes to increase use of green technology and create jobs

In addition to the recent $20 million the government gave to support the development of offshore wind energy, the Obama Administration is making another hefty donation to support additional efforts in renewable energy, but this time, it's for solar power. President Barack Obama is giving $1.85 billion to two solar companies in order to build new solar plants throughout the United States.

Obama's plan behind this new financial commitment is to create different avenues of renewable energy use and to also create new jobs for American citizens. His announcement regarding the donation for this project was presented in his weekly online and radio address on Saturday, which was one day after the U.S. Department of Labor revealed that employers, for the first time in six months, cut payrolls once again due to the possible end of 225,000 temporary census jobs.

The two solar companies that Obama has chosen to present the money to are Abengoa Solar and Abound Solar Manufacturing. Abengoa Solar plans to build one of the world's largest solar plants near Gila Bend, Arizona while Abound Solar Manufacturing will build plants in Indiana and Colorado. Together, these plants will create more than 2,000 construction jobs and 1,500 permanent jobs.

"We're going to keep competing aggressively to make sure the jobs and industries of the future are taking root right here in America," said Obama.

Out of the total $1.85 billion, $1.45 billion will go to Abengoa Solar, since it's Arizona solar plant will create 1,600 jobs alone and will be able to power approximately 70,000 homes. The other $400 million will go to Abound Solar Manufacturing. 

"Already, I've seen the payoff from these investments," said Obama. "I've seen once-shuttered factories humming with new workers who are building solar panels and wind turbines; rolling up their sleeves to help America win the race for the clean energy economy."

The U.S. Department of Energy announced some clean energy news as well. The Weatherization Assistance Program, which insulates and protects homes and buildings with energy efficient improvements, has already helped perform weatherization work on more than 30 percent of homes in 12 states. This totals to approximately 108,000 homes and is saving more than $47 million on energy bills. The program has also created 10,000 jobs. 

In addition, the U.S. Department of Energy has approved another $76 million for energy efficient building equipment and technology as well as new training programs for commercial building operators, technicians and auditors.

Obama holds high hopes for these new programs and developments, hoping they'll boost the economy, and saying that "the administration is accelerating the transition to a clean energy economy and doubling our use of renewable energy sources such as wind and solar power -- steps that have the potential to create whole new industries and hundreds of thousands of new jobs in America."

The construction of these new solar plants are the latest efforts toward cleaner energy and employment under the U.S. Recovery Act

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1.8 billion out of thin air again ?
By chick0n on 7/5/2010 11:29:51 AM , Rating: 4
Last I checked this nation still owe 1.3 or 4 trillion in debt.

so where did this 1.8 billion came from ?

Print more 100 dollar bills ? not even enough time.

This nation don't even have enough money to pay interest. LOL

create more jobs my ass, more like giving money to more lobbyist to keep him in the office for longer.

RE: 1.8 billion out of thin air again ?
By cruisin3style on 7/5/2010 2:13:34 PM , Rating: 3
Our gross national debt is something like 12 or 13 trillion...

RE: 1.8 billion out of thin air again ?
By sleepeeg3 on 7/5/2010 5:58:28 PM , Rating: 4

Far larger public debt that the UK, approaching the size of Greece's.
US Public Debt (94%+):
UK Public Debt (53%+):
Greece was around 125% before they declared bankruptcy. It is only a matter of time before the US goes bankrupt. Thanks to wasteful spending on inefficient technology and bailout/kickbacks to campaign supporters, things are not looking good.

RE: 1.8 billion out of thin air again ?
By sleepeeg3 on 7/5/2010 6:03:15 PM , Rating: 2
RE: 1.8 billion out of thin air again ?
By TSS on 7/5/2010 8:20:19 PM , Rating: 5
That's only federal debt. Count state and private debt and your up to $53 trillion.

1.8 trillion is your yearly deficit

around 400 billion is the yearly amount of interest paid on said debt.

And that is with half of the debt financed with short term sexutiries based on current interest rates, which are historically low.

If you don't raise interest rates and the economy recoveres, hyperinflation takes hold making the US into Zimbabwe. If you raise interest rates, the interest on your debt blows up to a figure +1 trillion, which'll only go down if you subtract numbers from that +13 trillion figure.

And this is without future medicare and medicaid liabilities in mind due to aging babyboomers.

I think this time americans have litteraly dug themselves a hole to china...

By Daniel8uk on 7/6/2010 9:21:49 AM , Rating: 1
Also, if Israel and the US cannot make a push towards regime change in Iran or North Korea then the US dollar will sink like the titanic, people must remember that the reason the US can still borrow and have massive debt is because of the petrodollar.

Either way the US isn't headed for a nice place, this is even worse when you consider that America has a private bank which puts the country in more debt with each dollar printed, therefore it's impossible to pay of the debt to the federal reserve and to any other lenders.

By The0ne on 7/6/2010 11:37:35 AM , Rating: 2
I rate US in the same place as Greece. As some reporters have been using, "laughing stock" of the block.

RE: 1.8 billion out of thin air again ?
By inigoml on 7/8/2010 9:18:28 AM , Rating: 2
You are mistaken.
Greece problem don't come from total debt. They come from public deficit, that is not the same.
Spain has a high deficit and a relative low debt, and has many problems.
UK has a high deficit and a high debt, and has also many problems.
US has a relative high deficit and yes high debt, but US economy is strong enought to support it, a high productivity and an efficient laboral market, and economy is growing fast again.
I would like my country (Spain) to have all "problems" US has. :(

By Kurz on 7/8/2010 9:42:06 AM , Rating: 2
The economy is not growing fast... Look at stock, look at Job numbers.

By bill4 on 7/6/2010 11:07:18 AM , Rating: 2
Just shows what a collosal economic imbecile Obama is...

You have to truly not have the faintest understanding of economics to think, replacing more efficient forms of energy (oil, coal) with drastically less efficient ones (solar in this case) will help the economy. It can only hurt. Never mind the stupidity of using borrowed deficit dollars to do it because the country is utterly broke, and all that.

But Obama doesn't understand anything about economics, that's one reason he just cant pull the economy out of the shitter. He's flailing about like a blind idiot. He truly is dumb, though. Bill Clinton, I mean I never supported Clinton, but at least Clinton wasn't a complete idiot economically.

RE: This
By ralniv on 7/7/2010 11:29:08 PM , Rating: 2
Really... coal and oil are more efficient than solar power? Take a look at the energy required to extract, transport, refine, and burn/consume coal or oil. Do the same for solar and don't forget to consider the lifespan of a solar array vs a barrel of oil, and then report back.

The issue at hand goes beyond efficiency. It's about renewability and dependence on foreign oil. Oil will not last forever and domestic sources cannot meet domestic demand. This is about the future. We have fallen far behind other nations on clean nuclear power. Do you want to do the same for solar technology too?

In the interest of a balanced discussion, I submit that the timing of this investment is subject to debate due to our soaring national debt. I personally endorse govt investment in advanced technology that can modernize (and improve) our national infrastructure, but I wish politicians did a better job cutting spending in other areas. What those "other areas" are I will leave alone in the interest of avoiding splinter discussions.

RE: This
By Kurz on 7/8/2010 9:49:07 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, they are more efficient than solar power.
Thats why its cheaper to buy oil than buy a solar panel.

You are also forgetting about the energy density of Oil.
The issue is efficiency here... the issue is that solar is not efficient use of money yet. If solar was cheaper to use and produce we will be using it. Except its not at that stage yet.

Oil will last forever the only question is, is it economical to mine/drill for it.

Those nations that use wind and solar power are worse off now than they were. Since buying renewable doesn't make economic sense.
The timing is so wrong and has been wrong ever since the Federal Reserve and progressive ideas were seen as right thing to do. Markets and individuals will always make smarter more efficient decisions than the government.

Breaking News!
By sleepeeg3 on 7/5/2010 5:12:04 PM , Rating: 3
"Mexican Druglords Capture Arizona Solar Plant - Irony Ensues."

This comment is apparently spam and we do not allow spam comments.

Obama Gives? Excuse me!
By NesuD on 7/6/2010 9:27:08 AM , Rating: 3
$1.85B of your grand childrens money given away by Obama for Solar Energy Plants


By The Raven on 7/6/2010 11:52:21 AM , Rating: 2
Yes it is cheaper to harvest energy from the Sun, and that could help us get out of debt in theory. But unfortuantely the savings will be used to give broadband internet or 3D TVs to everyone.

Then when you factor in the actual effectiveness of this pipedream (currently), this is just a stupid move to help Obama look good during the green craze.

906k per job created?
By zombiexl on 7/6/2010 4:02:10 PM , Rating: 2
Please tell me my math is off here?

Mr. Obama,

I'm trying to grow my company. Give me 1 million and i'll create 5 jobs, which is far less per job created than on your solar scam.

Better yet, how about you stop borrowing money to give your friends a boost.

Instead of...
By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1
RE: Instead of...
By MrDiSante on 7/5/2010 11:02:11 AM , Rating: 1
No, it's time to stop the fish away from the Americans who already know and do fish in order to try to teach Americans to fish in lakes with no fish in them.

RE: Instead of...
By HostileEffect on 7/5/2010 11:03:20 AM , Rating: 2
The government needs to provide for the defense of the nation and keep all interstate roads and waterways in good working order, among the other very few jobs it is intended to fulfill. It may employ citizens but it is not a job creation machine.

Solar and every other subsidized industry needs to stay in the private market and away from tax dollars.

*holds up flame shield T2000*

RE: Instead of...
By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1
RE: Instead of...
By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 11:09:24 AM , Rating: 2
*due to their ties*

Apparently I took a "FAIL@ENGLISH" pill this morning... shame on me.

RE: Instead of...
By Kurz on 7/5/2010 11:33:12 AM , Rating: 2
We haven't had a true Capitalist Economy in years!!!
Our currency hasn't held its value since Nixon era.
Capitalism is about saving, buying capital to reinvest that capital to gain more capital.

Those are the basics. The Whole greed issue is nonsense.
Progressives for years have destroyed the economy by taxing, subsidizing, regulating the hell out of the private industry.

The electrical infrastructure hasn't been updated because those writing the regulations don't want it to be. They make it impossible to lay down new lines.

The only reason why we don't have companies creating jobs is because the taxes are too high in this country, (At least for Corporations).

RE: Instead of...
By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 11:52:31 AM , Rating: 2
The only reason why we don't have companies creating jobs is because the taxes are too high in this country

Why is Germany doing better than we are, if that's indeed the case. I don't see the big German businesses shipping all their labor to China... if anything, a lot of them also have plants here in the US. Why is it that with their higher tax rates, they are doing better than US companies ? Oh, that's right, because the United States government is one of the most corrupt, backwards entities ever to grace the modern world. They don't know how to spend money correctly, and when they do start to do it, the pundits and lobbyists scream bloody murder, or wait... it's something more like this:


Most Americans are so uneducated and backwards, they don't even know what those terms mean. Our country is filled with under educated fools who listen to the mainstream media (on both sides), and are either too lazy to think for themselves or far too uneducated to do so. The truth hurts.

RE: Instead of...
By Kurz on 7/5/2010 12:12:30 PM , Rating: 3
>.> Where in my post did I advocate the US Government?
I hate our government with a passion.
I want a smaller government... without a Central Bank running it to the ground.

German Businesses are given incentives to stay.
They are giving tax brakes... That is the only reason they remain in Germany. If you are talking about BMW making plants... they only make them in the USA because we give them Tax brakes and subsidies.

Germany is the only country in the EU that isn't a leach to the rest of the EU. Countries in the EU are losing their credit rating left and right. Recent examples Greece and Spain.

RE: Instead of...
By Hare on 7/5/10, Rating: 0
RE: Instead of...
By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 2:36:26 PM , Rating: 1
You sir, are an idiot. People just like you are the ones dragging the US and other country's down. Always wanting entitlements and higher taxes for all, for "the common good".
You do realize, you can always pay MORE on your income tax, right? Why don't you put up or shut up?
Talk about uneducated; pot, kettle, black.

RE: Instead of...
By LordSojar on 7/5/10, Rating: -1
RE: Instead of...
By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 3:24:50 PM , Rating: 1
"Call me what you want, but I know I am far from an idiot."

I have no issue calling you what you are: hypocrite.
Far from an idiot? Says you, LordPot. GO TEAM!
Show us the money trail where you are self imposing a 50% or better tax on yourself. Oh, that's right, you didn't mean for you but from everyone else. GO TEAM LordHypocrite!
Making yourself (read: stroking your epenis) fell good by saying you have "empathy". You truly are an asshat of ginormous proportions. Take you "empathy" and place it next to your swelling, liberal, self stroked ego. Prick indeed! Touche!

RE: Instead of...
By Kurz on 7/5/2010 4:13:54 PM , Rating: 3
You speak of greed of corporations...
You never speak of greed of the Government.

The only reason greed exists, is because the current system doesn't allow greed to fail. The problem is systematic not regulatory. No matter how good your ideas the individuals in humanity care first for themselves, family, then others.

The rights are not those. We are protected for life, liberty and property, We were given those rights by our founders. What we do with them is our decision.

Health care and education are entitlements the government has decided to offer to the citizenry. When you are forced to give up your liberty and property for the "common good" no one in their right mind is going to like that. Since the people who have worked hard for their property only to see it go towards wasteful projects and not towards what they were intended to do.

There is no apathy in his words... he is just pissed the government dictates everything when the people and the states have the say.

Learn Economics prick before you go mouthing off about how you are entitled to everything you deemed "necessary" to society.

RE: Instead of...
By hyvonen on 7/5/10, Rating: 0
RE: Instead of...
By Kurz on 7/5/2010 9:18:28 PM , Rating: 2
Health care system is completely about special interests of Hospitals and Health Insurance companies telling our congressman how to pass laws in their favor. Health Insurance is tied to Employers, if the Health Insurance was payed and chosen by individuals you wouldn't have the issues we are having today.

Their cost-effective manner still leads to deficits in their federal government.

Universities are just following the price/demand curve.
X amount of students can attend school what universities can provide is limited on the short term. What Federal and State governments do is offer lower than cost loans to students.
It sounds great on paper, but the effect leads to higher prices since loans allow more people to afford it. Then it just piles on over the years with governments offering even lower priced loans for students. We are having another bubble being created by the government intervention.

RE: Instead of...
By The Raven on 7/6/2010 11:33:04 AM , Rating: 2
Spot on buddy. You must be listening to someone like Peter Schiff. (But I'm sure you will surely be labeled as a Glen Beck listener lol).

Also, you are correct that healthcare is not a right. If it was, then we should be able to smoke, drink, and TAN without consequence. But by adding that damn tan tax in the healthcare overhaul (coupled with other existing 'sin taxes') Pres. Obama and co. are admitting that health care is not a right. They are just trying to give the majority of people the benefit so they will vote for them and send the healthcare companies more customers, regardless if it is 'right' to redistribute wealth in this manner.

RE: Instead of...
By Kurz on 7/7/2010 11:41:16 AM , Rating: 2
Actually "Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics Third Edition"

In the end Health care is getting further away from a free market ideal. Forcing people to buy healthcare when they aren't financially capable of paying for it or find that paying for it is finacially not worth it.

Costs will go up, government deficits will go up. And more people will be proclaiming that its all 'Greedy' corporation's fault. With none of the blame pointed at the government and their progressive policies. We are heading to a big upset, and I suggest everyone be prepared to be self-sufficant in the coming years and do what you can to get out of debt and actually own your property.

RE: Instead of...
By NA1NSXR on 7/6/2010 4:47:55 AM , Rating: 2
Dude, do you not see you just basically spelled out the formula that has led to massive death and suffering throughout Europe and Asia in the 20th century????

RE: Instead of...
By JediJeb on 7/6/2010 3:00:49 PM , Rating: 1
Healthcare and education aren't entitlements, they are rights. You have a natural right to live your life free of pain and suffering, and to learn to make intelligent decisions for yourself.

Show me one example in nature that shows that living beings have the right to be free of pain and suffering! I don't see Seals giving free pain killers to Whales, or Lions performing free knee replacements on Elephants. Any time that you take money from one individual and give it to another to provide a service that amounts to an entitlement not a right, because to take the money from the first party to give to the second denies the first party their right to their money. By your definition I should be required to work in order to provide someone else with a benefit.

If I wish to provide help to another person through my own charity then that is my own decision. The people of this world were much more charitable and of a communal mind before large centralized governments decided to force people to be that way. I challenge you to do a study of all past governments and societies. You will find in the past that every single one that has moved from a community centered government structure to a large centralized government structure has utterly failed and disappeared. From the Ancient Egyptians to the Persians, Romans, Ancient Greeks, to the Mongols united under the Kahns, over to the Colonial periods of the British, French, Spanish, Danish and Portuguese and on to the Soviets, all grew to a point that they became too big to sustain themselves and were either brought down by corruption within or smaller, more efficient groups from the outside. How is it that a loose knit band of Galls, was able to defeat the mighty Roman Empire? Why is much of the world no longer ruled by the Persian Empire as it once was?

Small, agile governments that operate at a local level can much better provide what is needed to it's citizens than the large central governments could ever hope to do. The large central government should exist to provide defense to the whole and arbitrate among the local governments, but not to take the place of the local governments. If you read the US Constitution you will see this is what the Founding Fathers of this country knew and believed. Read any of their writings and you will see they stressed self reliance, that the individuals are responsible for their own success or failure, not the government. Also that people(and corporations) who make poor decisions should be allowed to fail. And by the way, you can learn to make informed decisions without being given a free college education.

Any person that works and tries to better society should have access to those basic rights. I don't think that a freeloader should, as they aren't contributing to society, but any man or woman who puts in an honest days work that furthers society in any way should be "entitled" to free/extremely affordable healthcare and education, and should be able to live in an environment free of oppression, famine, and plague. Get some humanity, prick.

Take away the heavy taxes needed to provide those services and the person who works hard to contribute to society will be able to pay for those services out of their own pocket. Doctors and hospitals that aren't taxed and inundated with burdensome and useless regulations and paperwork can operate with much less expense and therefore offer less expensive services. As for education, I worked my way through college and I have a healthy respect for both my education and what it has provided me. I know those who had free to almost free rides through college who have no respect for what they had given to them and little respect for the things they have now. What is needed for a better society is not so much education, but wisdom, and you can not teach wisdom from a book. Wisdom is learned through each individuals success and failure in life.

Also anyone who believes that the world is entitled to be free of famine and plague must be dreaming. You say that everyone should have such "rights", so let's see how that would work. HIV is probably one of the worst plagues to come upon this world in modern times. The one way to solve the problem of HIV would be to restrict the sexual activities of everyone on the planet. That alone could end this plague in a couple generations. Yet to provide the "right" of freedom from HIV you would have to take away another right of free choice from the world. Who gets to make the decision of which "right" is the more important? Of course you will say the "right" of freedom from HIV should come from pouring huge amounts of money into research into finding a cure for HIV, but what if that cure can never be found? Is it proper to deny people their "right" the the money they earn to attempt to fulfill a "right" of freedom from HIV to those who have it?

Don't get me wrong, I believe HIV is a horrible thing and we should work to cure it if possible. I just grabbed it as a good example to use, I could have used many others.

My point is we have the "rights" to make our own choices in life, for good or bad, but not "rights" to an easy life no matter what our choices may be. Self Reliance is what should drive us, with a mind towards promoting the common good through a charitable lifestyle. Forced charity is not really charity at all, just as forced obedience is not really obedience but more like slavery or indentured servitude depending on what the reward for the obedience is.

RE: Instead of...
By Solandri on 7/5/2010 4:14:54 PM , Rating: 2
Why is Germany doing better than we are, if that's indeed the case. I don't see the big German businesses shipping all their labor to China... if anything, a lot of them also have plants here in the US. Why is it that with their higher tax rates, they are doing better than US companies ?

Germany avoided the housing bubble. Back when housing prices in several European countries had inflated even more than they had in the U.S, Germany's housing prices remained flat. When the housing bubble popped, Germany's economy was one of the few which wasn't directly affected. Indirect effects (they do a lot more foreign trade than the U.S.) however did drive Germany's unemployment rate significantly higher than in the U.S. around the beginning and midpoint of the recession. Since then, Germany has recovered more quickly, again, primarily due to it never having suffered the fundamental cause of the bubble - overinflated housing prices.

China is "stealing" from the rest of the world and its citizens by artificially maintaining its currency at a lower exchange rate. This results in more economic activity being shifted into China, but less compensation for Chinese workers. They're doing this as a strategy to quickly build up an industrial base, paid for by foreign money, and built on the backs of its citizens. Part of the U.S. response to combat this (lowering interest rates to near zero to help drop the USD's value, forcing China to reindex the Yuan at a higher rate) also ended up feeding the housing bubble in the U.S.

There's a lot more going on than "Country A is doing well so it must be doing things right. Country B is not doing so well so it must be doing things wrong."

RE: Instead of...
By FITCamaro on 7/5/2010 8:41:35 PM , Rating: 1
What's this? A clue?

RE: Instead of...
By andrinoaa on 7/6/2010 5:24:26 AM , Rating: 2
You are waisting your breath replying to these inbreds, Lordsojar. I tried a while back to put a mirror in front of these guys, but they couldn't see wood from the trees. They are only teenagers with no worldly experience.This site is turning into a moronic, back slapping wank fest for ingorant people. Assertions are proclaimed as fact( ie there is no global warming, there is a left wing global agenda, no taxes are good for you etc etc etc). In the last year I have been tuning in, I have noticed a trend that proclaims that nothing new is any good. Every new insight or development is canned. So why are these stoogges on a tech site? Which beggs the question, Why is America so fucked? The replies to your insights just beggar belief. You can understand why the chinese are running rings around this mob.

RE: Instead of...
By Quadrillity on 7/7/2010 8:27:37 AM , Rating: 2
You are waisting your breath replying to these inbreds

"When you run out of logic, start insulting people! It makes you look like you have won!"
( ie there is no global warming, there is a left wing global agenda, no taxes are good for you etc etc etc)

Global warming is an alarmist propaganda machine built to line pockets. Yes, there IS a left wing global agenda (because it is ABSOLUTE FACT that ALL liberals believe that they know whats better for your life than you do). And last but not least, please point out who it was that said taxes are not essential to society? See, what you are doing here is putting words into people mouths and then calling everyone an idiot for it. You sir, are the blathering idiot.
I have noticed a trend that proclaims that nothing new is any good. Every new insight or development is canned. So why are these stoogges on a tech site?

No, I think you are just taking some kind of illegal substance and dreaming all of this up. If you don't have anything constructive to say then stfu. You and your kind ruin civilized debates when you come in huffing and puffing, throwing chairs, and turning blue in the face.

RE: Instead of...
By Kurz on 7/5/2010 11:19:02 AM , Rating: 2
Actually I agree with what you said.
Crude, Coal, needs to get more expensive on its own (no Government interference) in order to see more Solar panel usage.

Till then its better if investors and large Corps like GE keep researching for the ideal Solar Panel.

RE: Instead of...
By knutjb on 7/5/2010 5:21:14 PM , Rating: 2
It's time to teach Americans how to fish.
You have it so wrong. We must not let politicians keep raising taxes on our right to fish.

RE: Instead of...
By sleepeeg3 on 7/5/2010 5:31:56 PM , Rating: 2
Too bad these 1500 jobs are only costing us $1,200,000 per job! Ahhh!!!

The government can not be as efficient as private enterprise. It is impossible. It is a monopoly - it competes with nothing so there is no incentive for them to improve efficiency. Bankrupt companies may have overspent by .5x? Well the government is overspending here by 500x! Taxes are taken from efficient businesses to feed an inefficient monopoly that spends money only to please a few voters so the politicians can stay in office. If we were all government employees, where would the taxes come from to pay for these $1.2 million jobs? Think about that for a second...

Solar power is grossly inefficient and is the most expensive "green" technology available. It costs over 3x as much as alternative energy technologies! That means our goods costs 3x as much to produce. Our government is bleeding us dry and we need someone in office who is going to put an end to this madness, before our country goes bankrupt.

RE: Instead of...
By sleepeeg3 on 7/5/2010 5:49:37 PM , Rating: 2
Make that "overspending by 20x" ;) Still absurd.

Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By Beenthere on 7/5/10, Rating: -1
RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By Kurz on 7/5/2010 11:06:31 AM , Rating: 3
It wont create jobs that will stand on its own.
The technology isn't cheap enough yet for it compete with dirty alternatives.

The only jobs it'll create are those dependent on big government to keep funding them.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By moenkopi on 7/5/2010 8:08:02 PM , Rating: 1
Ohh, you mean like big oil? hahha... Oil production is highly subsidized. I'm sorry, but we have to start this now, because there is the possibility that it will become far cheaper. It is on a vector of becoming far cheaper since it is only collecting something that otherwise, exists. Unlike coal and oil.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By Kurz on 7/6/2010 10:35:12 AM , Rating: 2
big oil doesn't need our subsidies.
Though I am all for removing those subsidies as well.
In fact once you remove those subsidies for Oil it'll make clean alternatives more economical. At the same time we aren't paying for the energy twice (Once Public once Private), and it leads to more conservation and efficient uses of the energy.

Coal and Oil is unlikely to ever run out.
Technology presses on to make the process of extraction cheaper. It enables the drilling/mining of energy that was previously uneconomical. Plus increasing prices enables oil/coal that was uneconomical become economical.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By spread on 7/5/10, Rating: 0
RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By carbon3c on 7/5/2010 12:04:00 PM , Rating: 2
You don't make sense, spread. Capitalism and profit drove the auto industry forward, and unions nearly destroyed it. If the government stopped spending, and lowered taxes, the people would do a lot more good with that money. Goverment is mostly waste.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By spread on 7/5/2010 12:36:05 PM , Rating: 2
That's true. But who can afford to buy a solar plant and put it in their back yard?

It's kind of a shared "purchase".

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By carbon3c on 7/5/2010 1:03:07 PM , Rating: 2
It's definitely a shared purchase, but not shared benefit. I live in Tennessee and won't benefit from the power generation or from the jobs.

If solar plants aren't cost effective and profitable, they shouldn't build them. Paying more for energy will only hurt the economy and our country.

I could have created more than 1500 jobs with $1.85 billion. Why should those companies get it instead of me? A lottery would be more fair than trusting our leaders to do the best thing. Tax payers will always be smarter than the government when it comes to investing and creating jobs. Too bad we can't keep more of our own money.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 1:12:05 PM , Rating: 5
Too bad we can't keep more of our own money.

So you can spend it on a big screen TV produced by a Chinese/Korean company?

So you can spend it at Walmart, one of the biggest Chinese product import retailers in the US?

So you can invest it with amazing investment firms that invest in other countries to make more money?

Oh yes, you know exactly what you are doing with your own money.

Tell me, that amazing Bush tax rebate, that whopping $350 dollars. Did you guys start a business with that? Did you hire a new employee with that $350 dollars? Did you create one new job with that money? I highly doubt it. What part of the economy did that stimulate? Oh, that's right, most likely a big company that ships jobs overseas and imports the vast majority of its goods. Yep, you certainly know better than the government what to do to stimulate our economy with your whopping $350 dollar check from Uncle Sam. You have no idea WTF you are doing or how the economy functions, so stop pretending you do.

I'd rather they punched me in the face and gave me a bucket to piss in than $350 dollars. At least the bruise would last longer. Stimulate the economy with measly tax breaks that amount to less than 100 dollars per month? That's laughable at best, delusional at worst.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By carbon3c on 7/5/2010 1:30:04 PM , Rating: 1
That's laughable at best

You're laughable at best.

you know exactly what you are doing with your own money

That's right. It's my money, until the government takes it away by force of law. And yes I know exactly what I'm doing with it.

You make the case that we shouldn't decide for ourselves how we should spend our own money. Why don't we all just check into "the matrix" and be done with it? We only exist to serve the government right?

The government needs to stay out of our lives, except for defense, and possibly some national infrastructure.

When they passed the income tax amendment in 1913, congress discussed putting a cap of 10%, but they excluded that provision because they felt the American people would never put up with taxes as high as 10%. They thought we'd have a revolution. I guess you're right after all -- we're not smart today. We not only put up with the bullshit, some like you welcome it.

I'll make my own decisions, thank you. F*ck you, if you want to take that away from me.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 2:02:56 PM , Rating: 2
I don't welcome taxes that serve no purpose. I don't welcome spending that creates no jobs. The United States government is corrupt and can't spend the money correctly, nor can its people.

And yes I know exactly what I'm doing with it.

Really? Put your money where your mouth is then. Prove to the educated that you know what you are doing. I'm sick of the majority of this pathetic country thinking that they know what they are doing, when in fact, they are just naive and have NO IDEA what they are doing. Most of the things you buy are heavily subsidized to keep prices reasonable; by the very government you ridicule, I might add! Why don't you buy unsubsidized goods; pay the real cost of things for a while, and see if you think the government is such a big bad guy then. You take everything for granted when it's not seen or heard, but the second you hear about the government spending in an area that doesn't directly benefit you, you piss and moan like it's the end of times.

In your own words: F*ck you, just because it doesn't benefit your greedy ass directly doesn't give you the right to bitch and moan. Perhaps this benefited my company and my employees. You, like so many other Americans, are a selfish twat.

You know who needs to run the country? The people that push the boundaries of technology; those that progress society, not those that stagnant because of some religious zealotry or mindless bigotry.

By carbon3c on 7/5/2010 2:42:29 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not a bigot. I applaud diversity. Everyone should be free to live and think as they choose, as long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others. Likewise, everyone should be free to spend and make financial decisions as they choose.

You're the one who espouses financial bigotry -- intolerant of how individuals make financial decisions -- not me. Are you blind to that? Just go back and read your posts.

Religious zealot? You're so off the mark.

Funny how you want to misjudge me, so you can direct misplaced hatred toward me. Talk about bigotry.

I'm not about to justify my financial decisions, my government service (military), or the hope, comfort and welfare I've brought to the lives of many others.

You might believe that you're better suited to judge financial and moral matters -- but that's just more bigotry.

Funny, how you tried to label me with your own failing.

I'm done replying to your foolish posts.

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 2:51:55 PM , Rating: 1
" You, like so many other Americans, are a selfish twat."
Sounds like you are auditioning for the Obama team, Mr.Pot.
After all, you are soooo smart band call yourself Lord. Laughable know-it-all at the very best. Stupid idiot and mindless drone, that is closer to reality.
Many of us are sick of your kind, so I guess we are even.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 2:42:29 PM , Rating: 2
"Tell me, that amazing Bush tax rebate"
Did you spend yours? Did you give it back or perhaps you gave it to some green start up firm? I'll bet not.
So fast to jump on Bush when Obama does much worse. I think you need to change your name to Pot or Kettle. You are a cancer on society. That punching could be arranged.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 3:18:39 PM , Rating: 2
Sounds like you are auditioning for the Obama team, Mr.Pot. After all, you are soooo smart band call yourself Lord. Laughable know-it-all at the very best. Stupid idiot and mindless drone, that is closer to reality. Many of us are sick of your kind, so I guess we are even.

Are you attempting to make a correlation from my gamertag/blogtag name to any semblance of real life? That's really sad...

Mindless drone? I'm the farthest thing from mindless you'll ever meet. You created another account just to bash me, which shows mindlessness at its best. Instead of continuing this argumentum ad hominem with you, I'll simply say this: Your argument (if you even have one) is based on a concept of greed and apathy, i.e. the American Dream. Capitalism is a flawed concept.

While you sit and bash me, some CEO (who hasn't really done anything particularly beneficial for society) is making more money in a year than you will ever make in a lifetime. That isn't deserved wealth... it's wealth earned from legal extortion, coercion, and political sway/power. You are defending the very people that take you to the cleaners on a daily basis. If anyone is playing the mindless drone, it is you. You are their puppet, spewing back their corrupt rhetoric.

I dislike Obama, but for real reasons. I dislike the United States of America's views on the measure of success; the greed and apathy that plagues this country. This country was founded to be a land where the government would not only defend its people, but provide for their welfare, as a statute of liberty. But that's ok to interpret the Constitution as you see fit; erasing Thomas Jefferson from the textbooks we use to teach children as an enlightened founding father is perfectly acceptable, right? Sickening.

Did you spend yours? Did you give it back or perhaps you gave it to some green start up firm? I'll bet not. So fast to jump on Bush when Obama does much worse. I think you need to change your name to Pot or Kettle. You are a cancer on society. That punching could be arranged.

I spent mine on overpriced coffee at Starbucks and if I do recall, an overpriced cell phone bill for that 2 months thanks to telco companies ruling with an iron fist.

While no President since WWII has done anything really beneficial for this country, I will say this. Bush was an uneducated buffoon incapable of running a 7-11, much less a country. At least Obama is semi intelligent, though it's hard to tell with some of his decisions as well. And if I'm a "cancer on society", then society is pretty much doomed if they stay healthy, as the only end result of the norm is total self destruction.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 3:31:35 PM , Rating: 1
Face it LordTwat, you are here regurgitating all the things from your leftist gods you accuse the right of doing. You are so hollow it is amazing you can find your oversized head to pat. Good LordTwat, good boy. And now for my next trick......

"I spent mine on overpriced coffee"

Amazing, simply amazing hypocrisy here. Remember: GO TEAM!

CEO's can make what they are voted on to make by the board of directors. Last I heard, we in America can be what we chose to be. It's all up to us if we succeed or fail. I don't begrudge anyone making more than me, I'm not that childish. Someone will ALWAYS be better and make more than you do, get over it.
Grow a pair, be a man!

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By LordSojar on 7/5/2010 3:46:27 PM , Rating: 1
Face it LordTwat, you are here regurgitating all the things from your leftist gods you accuse the right of doing. You are so hollow it is amazing you can find your oversized head to pat. Good LordTwat, good boy. And now for my next trick...... "I spent mine on overpriced coffee" Amazing, simply amazing hypocrisy here. Remember: GO TEAM! CEO's can make what they are voted on to make by the board of directors. Last I heard, we in America can be what we chose to be. It's all up to us if we succeed or fail. I don't begrudge anyone making more than me, I'm not that childish. Someone will ALWAYS be better and make more than you do, get over it. Grow a pair, be a man!

You can't be what you choose to be, 100% guaranteed. That is the delusion of capitalism. You have a nearly ZERO chance of that in this day and age. You will do what you must to survive, and if Lady Luck happens to smile on you, you might catch one of those 1 in million breaks. You don't choose what you will become or do, the system does that for you; the system of money, corruption, and greed.

Want to start a business? Good luck getting that venture capital. LOL. Want to be CEO? Fat chance without heavy political ties or huge amounts of corporate interest. You are on some very heavy drugs to believe that old bedtime comfort that you can be whatever you want or make of yourself; sorry kid, this isn't a Disney movie.

In addition, my views are my own. You are simply continuing this argumentum ad hominem, and I will no longer participate in an exercise in futility. You created this account specifically to troll me, and up until this point, have succeeded on some level (though it isn't the level you might have yourself believe). You know what the best thing about teaching at a university is?... I don't have to deal with people like you. Have a nice time whoring yourself to the corporate world, in some naive attempt to make it in this "American Dream" you worship so blindly.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By Kurz on 7/5/2010 4:24:07 PM , Rating: 2
WE don't have capitalism.
Open your eyes, its Keynesian Economics (Google it).
The government is holding you and I back from our potential.

Instead you see the government needs to prop us up...
Who props up the government I ask you?
We the people do, if it becomes to the point when we need the government to do everything for us. That's it we are lost and we as a country are doomed to failure.

By integr8d on 7/6/2010 2:02:46 AM , Rating: 1
He might be a liberal. But he's definitely a progressive. He might even be a Neo-Con (Republican version of progressive). Though for the Bush bashing, I'd say no.

The way things are today:

Mainstream = Progressive...

True Conservative/Liberal = the 'fringe' or 'extremists'.

The media will lump these things together to confuse the general public. But this is how it boils down...

Progressives on the left and right will bitch and moan about 'conservative' this or 'liberal' that. They're just arguing over who gets to spend the money. Remember, the country has only moved in one direction over the years. A Republican progressive may get in and tweak the tax code here and there. A Democrat Progressive may get in and create a new bureaucracy (in Bush's case, he did both). But they concur on everything. Don't mind the votes (especially, when one party is in a de facto minority). It's a show to give you the impression of a difference. Kind of like the WWF of politics. Behind the curtains, they're all buds.

Real liberals (Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel) and real conservatives (Ron Paul) are 'the fringe'. The media mocks them constantly and would rather they just go away. It might be helpful to think of them like this: Instead of left and right, think about a pie chart. Kucinich, Gravel and Paul represent a very small part of that pie. Progressives represent the rest.

When progressives talk about capitalism or socialism, they're not talking about them in the truest sense. They're talking about these things existing through corporations. Bush and Obama are really the same guys. Bush provided free-market capitalism through the corporations (Halliburton, Blackwater, etc.). Obama is providing socialism through the corporations (healthcare, bail-outs [corporate welfare], etc.). Either way, we pay for both. And that money goes to the greedy CEOs, as what's-his-face said.

So, you see, what's-his-face and a lot of other unfortunates, while right on a few points, are still missing the larger picture/believing in the lie. And the lie is 'that there's a difference'. Notice how he gets all frothy on Bush and then pull the atypical 'Well I'm not happy with Obama either. But at least...'. That's a sign that we have a believer in our midst. And we must help this lost soul.

Corporations/Banks run everything, kids. Doesn't matter who you vote for. Kennedy was the last president to stand up to the banks. He was the last.


Progressives love Keynes. It's the reason it's been taught by 99.9% of academia for the last four or five decades. Mention Austrian Economics and you might as well hand yourself an F...

By andrinoaa on 7/6/2010 5:48:21 AM , Rating: 2
Oh yea, what are the chances of you becoming president, ha? 200,000,000 to one I bet. So much for your potential. Your lucky the government is holding you up. You don't seem to understand you need each other. Instead of trying to improve on the system, you keep trying to destroy it. Its the ID , stupid. (forbidden planet, Dr Morbius)

By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 4:27:10 PM , Rating: 2
You really need to read more instead of parroting the liberals. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the PURSUIT of Happiness."
There are no guarantees you will succeed. You, as a self professes educated person should really get out more. It depends on many factors but mostly your drive and will to succeed. All these "entitlements" create lazy people and more liberals such as yourself. Stop trying to rewrite the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc.

"In addition, my views are my own."

But you try to force them on others and rail when others differ. In essence, you are the embodiment of a hypocrite.
Thank you, come again when you stop taking it up the ass for the Team.
Whore indeed.

By sleepeeg3 on 7/5/2010 6:19:49 PM , Rating: 2
"I'd rather they punched me in the face and gave me a bucket to piss in than $350 dollars."
This can be arranged! Just post back with your address. ;)

You preach on about your empathy for fellow man, yet you think Americans are so stupid that we will all just blow our money at Wal-Mart. So then why would we better off giving the politicians our money to spend - it was the same idiots in America who elected those politicians, remember? Your hypocrisy is mind-boggling...

1500, $1.2 million jobs is not a good argument for higher taxation and I am not sure how you justify that to anyone.

By andrinoaa on 7/6/2010 5:38:05 AM , Rating: 2
carbon3c, unions don't operate in a vacuum. Count all the things you take for granted that were only given to you because of unions. Then count all the things big business ever gave to you through the goodness of their hearts. Stop making moronic one sentence assertions cause life aint that simple, simon!
Its a two way street. If workers don't make excess money to spend, the capitalist system collapses, (one reason why Russian communism collapsed) Without unions, historically, business would use slaves just as efficiently as paid labour. Patently, some countries pay their workers more and tax them more yet survive and thrive. One country comes to mind where technical excellence is in the blood.
The government clearly can't do everything, but to say leave it to capitalist forces to do the right thing without regulation, yea right, I'm fat albert too.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By chromal on 7/5/2010 1:48:31 PM , Rating: 2
And yet, it's still a better investment than it's equivalent cost in Iraq and Afghanistan: US$1.8B buys less than a week of war. At least will have something to show for this money spent.

RE: Bama didn't give $1.8 billion
By knutjb on 7/5/2010 5:18:02 PM , Rating: 3
They are two different events. In our current fiscal woes it's not prudent, let alone sane, to keep spending money we don't have. The war happened and that can't be changed . Future spending can be prevented .

I greatly differ that this is a better investment because it's a false argument. When the government picks winners winners & losers they are frequently wrong and spend well over budget because too many people see government money as if it comes from the Federal Government and not their own pockets. Hence the money is spent without rational consideration and frequently wasted. Great idea!

The best investment is to slash government, fix the deficit permanently , rethink the rules and regulations and trim them down because they are excessive, and let people create on their own without over-burdening bureaucratic influence.

Government is nothing but a drag on the economy and you cannot prove otherwise. Government does not produce anything but it does leach off those who do.

I personally believe that the people who think government bureaucrats are not prone to behave just as badly, if not worse, as those in the corporate world are living in a fantasy. Time to wake up and pull your head out of the sand.

By sleepeeg3 on 7/5/2010 6:25:20 PM , Rating: 2
Well said. I would rate you up, if I had the ability.

By andrinoaa on 7/6/2010 6:11:16 AM , Rating: 2
"Government is nothing but a drag on the economy and you cannot prove otherwise. Government does not produce anything but it does leach off those who do."
Are you insane? Do you honestly think the universe is infinite and revolves around you? Do you honestly think that without mass organization (government), everyone will be better off?
If you are serious, then why is the military exempt from spending cuts? Without governments, you wouldn't have ORDER. KAOS would rule supreem. The mind shudders to think of the anarchy, violence, poverty, greed , slavery and inhumanity that would prevail. Children will defecate in their own food bowls if given a chance. Thats how you come across.
Please, can you define government, because I don't think you understand its place in a modern nation.
As for proof, its quite simple rally. Imposed order in society allows for innovation, for example, patent laws. Without patent laws, how could you possible keep trade secrets from anyone. These trade secrets have allowed companies like MONSANTO to make billions. I rest my case.
Government per se, is not the problem, its just your model has massive holes in it. To fix it, you have to acknowedge that its broken first. Your own tunnel vision is what is really upsetting you, lol.

By Daniel8uk on 7/5/10, Rating: -1
RE: Stupid...
By LordSooooStupid on 7/5/2010 2:47:35 PM , Rating: 1
"why don't you Americans stand up for what is right"
Oh, we are in the process of doing just that. I hope we can plug the gaping, socialist, pie hole on people just like you. Spreading your garbage like a disease. You don't deserve anything good that is America.
What's next, are you going to kick a wounded soldier and call him/her a baby killer? You are pathetic.

RE: Stupid...
By knutjb on 7/5/2010 5:36:30 PM , Rating: 3
OK, we stop and let the dictators of the world unite. Or was that workers of the world...anyway...

We, Clinton, got weak knees at the sight of Black Hawk Down and pulled out of Somalia. Three days later Rwanda began their mass genocide. We, Clinton, refused to even acknowledge it as genocide in the UN. Look at Somalia today. Yep if we, the US, sit at home on our hands bad things won't ever happen. I would like to see others do it on their own but they don't.

You need to learn what really has happened in history. We bulldozed Japan and Europe and then we rebuilt them and returned them back to their people. We don't demand reparations from our loss of life or financial burdens.

Look at what France and England did to Germany after WWI. I know we had Woodrow Wilson and his progressives to make the problem worse.

Europe's history in Africa? Conquer, place the people underfoot, a steal all the resources.

Those in glass houses...

"If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion." -- Scientology founder L. Ron. Hubbard

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