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Print 98 comment(s) - last by ElFenix.. on Oct 31 at 12:43 PM

Money will be dolled out in $400,000 to $200M chunks and comes from the $787 billion economic stimulus package

President Obama is making good on several of his promises from his campaign and one of the big pushes is for cleaner power. Obama isn’t simply stopping at trying to get electric companies to find new sources of power including wind and solar power, the President is looking to help Americans monitor their energy consumption and reduce the amount of electricity used in homes.

Obama announced a new $3.4 billion plan to revamp the U.S. electrical grid and launch a new era of renewable energy consumption. The new plan was unveiled as Obama toured the nation's largest solar energy plant. The funds will help the U.S. to build a new "smart energy grid" that will help cut costs and improve reliability of the existing electrical grid in America.

Obama said, "We need to do more than just add solar megawatts to this electrical grid." He continued saying, "This grid still runs on century-old technology. It wastes too much energy and costs us too much money and it's too susceptible to outages and blackouts."

Carol Browner, Obama's special assistant on energy and climate change predicts that the program will have a, "transformational impact on how electricity is generated, delivered, and consumed." She added, "We have a very antiquated system in this country. We need to upgrade that system, we need to modernize that system, and with it will come tremendous benefits for consumers and for our environment."

The grants for the new smart grid program will range from $400,000 to $200 million and will be granted to 100 different firms, manufacturers, and cities. The total funds for the program are drawn from the $787 billion economic stimulus plan.

Officials within the Obama administration claim that the new program will create tens of thousands of jobs and lay the foundation for a green energy infrastructure in the United States. An analysis from research firm Electric Power Research Institute estimates that the use of a new smart grid could shave energy usage in the country by 4% amounting to $20.4 billion saved.

The grant funds will finance the installation of a million in-home displays, 170,000 smart thermostats, and 175,000 load control devices. Some projects are also supplemented with funds from private companies.

California has a statewide plan to save energy in place already.



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More freedoms down the drain...
By MrBungle123 on 10/28/2009 11:14:16 AM , Rating: 1
I'd go get the link myself but I'm at work and can't get to youtube... If you go there and search for "Obama Thermosat" you'll find a video of obama in Roseburg Oregon.

He said during his campaign "We can't drive our SUV's and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times and just expect that the rest of the world is going to say okay"...

Make no mistake this "smart grid" is for the express purpose of making sure that we can't "keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times". This technology will allow the government and power companies to regulate the thermostats and other "smart" appliances in our homes. It may start with something that sounds innocent enough like backing off heaters/AC's a degree so that the power can be diverted for industry or something. But what happens when you combine this capability with the initives in "cap and trade" and "global warming" bills/treatys? You're polluting too much by keeping your house too warm or too cold sorry you pay more taxes, or maybe they'll lock you out of controll completely because you can't self regulate yourself inside their predetermined usage patterns.

We need to be suspicious of everything this administration does because they bury their real agenda under warm fuzzy phrases like "smart grid" and "democracy", but when you dig a little deeper you see whats really going on. Smart grid = invasion of privacy... Study the early 20th century progressives, democracy = socialism to these people.

Wake up America! you're losing your country and don't even know it.




By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/2009 11:20:05 AM , Rating: 1
Well by "we" he means us. He flies around the country to make speeches and Olympic bids. He drives around in whatever the hell he wants to. And I doubt he ever left the A/C off because "the rest of the world" wanted him too.


RE: More freedoms down the drain...
By Spuke on 10/28/2009 3:51:17 PM , Rating: 5
I agree, we definitely need to be vigilant with our government, but that should be business as usual not because someone we didn't vote for is now in office (who's only power is the veto..need to be watching Congress). You guys are overly neurotic.


RE: More freedoms down the drain...
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/2009 4:01:35 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You guys are overly neurotic.


And what do you call the last 8, no, 9 years now of Liberals crying over Bush ?


By Muirgheasa on 10/29/2009 5:52:02 AM , Rating: 1
Extraordinarily justified?


RE: More freedoms down the drain...
By Sunday Ironfoot on 10/29/2009 4:17:43 AM , Rating: 3
And where does the enery come from to keep your home at 72 degress? Out of thin f**king air!!? Out of your arse!!?

Energy consumption in the US is increasing, you have an anti-quated power grid that constantly breaks down and results in black outs. Obama is at least doing something about it. What did Bush do?


RE: More freedoms down the drain...
By Cogman on 10/29/2009 9:31:02 AM , Rating: 2
Re-vamping the grid is a good thing. What I don't like about this plan is the fact that he is dumping so much money into the worlds largest solar plant. I would have much rather seen him dump the money into nuclear research. A tech that is clean, safe, and cheap for all. That doesn't have huge materials and maintenance costs associated with it.


By atlmann10 on 10/30/2009 3:03:38 AM , Rating: 2
Yes the one point of all this that is definitely good is the grid itself. Our energy "Grid" was built how many decades ago, and upgraded over and over.The current energy "grid" probably wastes a good 1/8th of every bit of wasted electricity today. Now to mention the break downs, black out, brown outs etc. I really don't care what Bush or Obama have done. As I see it the Democratic and Republican party took over this country within it's first 10 years, and just continue to add more need for them. All these people on either side liberal/conservative that post all these stupid comments need to wake up. This country is not run by the president or anyone else in Washington. It is and has been run by the republican and democratic party for years. Who advises the president or the pre-president on his policies and issues? Who does he listen to when the chips are down? He listens to his party. You give me a 50/50 chance on anything, and I will tell you it's a carnival game. But every presidential election we have had for the last 300 years has been decided by one of these two parties. That's a 50/50 chance people, so our election process is a carnival game.


RE: More freedoms down the drain...
By ElFenix on 10/31/2009 12:43:07 PM , Rating: 2
i'm in favor of people paying market price for their consumption and smart meters allow people to do just that. so instead of paying $0.12 per KW-hr all day every day, people should be billed the $2 it costs on peak hours for running their A/C when they're not home. maybe then they'll actually get around to programming that thermostat.


Investing in the infrastructure
By StraightCashHomey on 10/28/2009 9:50:40 AM , Rating: 4
I would think that investing significant money into our nation's infrastructure is something that liberals and conservatives can get on board with.

This is one thing that I am happy to pay for with my income taxes.




RE: Investing in the infrastructure
By nafhan on 10/28/2009 10:04:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I would think that investing significant money into our nation's infrastructure is something that liberals and conservatives can get on board with.
Don't worry. Even if liberals and conservatives agree that this is a good idea, there will still be plenty of political infighting over how to do it!

Unfortunately, I think that a majority of the infrastructure upgrades are going to go to areas that are adding renewable power sources; rather than being spread across the country or going to the places that need it most. Similar to how federal highway money is allocated.


RE: Investing in the infrastructure
By lagitup on 10/28/2009 11:09:33 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Don't worry. Even if liberals and conservatives agree that this is a good idea, there will still be plenty of political infighting over how to do it!


To be fair, the color the new equipment is painted is terribly important.


RE: Investing in the infrastructure
By deeznuts on 10/28/2009 12:51:59 PM , Rating: 3
I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Although they could have cut some other unnecessary pork (from both sides mind you, Pubs are just as guilty) to pay for it ... You know, the concept of spending less or equal to what you take in.

Anyway, that's all a pipe dream so whatever.


No thanks keep the change
By Ammohunt on 10/28/2009 10:33:49 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
The grant funds will finance the installation of a million in-home displays, 170,000 smart thermostats, and 175,000 load control devices.


Like the ones that control the temperature of your house without your conscent?

Upgrading the power gird is a long time coming; but the government needs to stay out of my house.




RE: No thanks keep the change
By MrBungle123 on 10/28/2009 11:18:17 AM , Rating: 2
Thats EXACTLY what its for. Everything our corrupt federal government does is a power grab. This is no different.


RE: No thanks keep the change
By xmichaelx on 10/28/2009 7:25:09 PM , Rating: 4
You 2 are the most retarded sockpuppets I've seen here. Congrats! (And don't forget that Obama's gonna TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS TOO ZOMG!!1!!)

lol!


RE: No thanks keep the change
By Ammohunt on 10/30/2009 6:35:56 PM , Rating: 2
Some run with the herd some don't you have made your choice comrade.


Good Onya
By Goty on 10/28/2009 9:48:14 AM , Rating: 2
Let it never be said that I didn't agree with Obama on anything. This is one expense I'll be happy to foot the bill for, assuming the government doesn't muck it up too badly.




RE: Good Onya
By teldar on 10/28/2009 10:03:27 AM , Rating: 2
Did you read the last bit? A million in-home displays? 170000 smart thermostats? What the hell? I don't want to pay for crap in other peoples' houses. I want the GRID upgraded.

A$$hats.


RE: Good Onya
By Masospaghetti on 10/28/2009 10:32:26 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, its one thing to be upgrading the GRID, its another to be paying to upgrade people's houses.

One should get government funding, the other clearly shouldn't. I'm pretty disappointed that they f*cked this one up.


RE: Good Onya
By 67STANG on 10/28/2009 3:22:44 PM , Rating: 1
But if taxpayers didn't foot the bill for programmable thermostats for 170,000 people, whom I'm guessing can't afford them, they would each have to plunk down their own $30 for one. Gasp!

What is it called again when monies and/or valuables are given to the people via redistributive taxation?


RE: Good Onya
By Spuke on 10/28/2009 3:45:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What is it called again when monies and/or valuables are given to the people via redistributive taxation?
It's called bullshit.


RE: Good Onya
By KCjoker on 10/28/2009 7:10:36 PM , Rating: 1
I agree, Obama once again takes 1 step forward and 2 steps back.


Sounds good but
By Chiisuchianu on 10/28/2009 3:18:38 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sure they won't do anything with it just like the ISPs did with the money that was sent to them.




Sweet and Bitter
By kaoken on 10/28/2009 7:28:38 PM , Rating: 2
Great news that they are upgrading the power grid. Smart meters and load controllers are also very good ideas. But smart thermostats? Who thought of this idea must be bonkers.




Mr. Bungle. Let them have it.
By stilltrying on 10/28/09, Rating: 0
Ya.....right....
By mdogs444 on 10/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ya.....right....
By Bateluer on 10/28/2009 9:29:30 AM , Rating: 3
Revamping the grid still needs to be done. Upgrading the power generating facilities to nuclear plants should still press forward though.


RE: Ya.....right....
By FITCamaro on 10/28/2009 9:57:03 AM , Rating: 5
Yes it does. So the government should create an environment where it pays for companies to upgrade. And not by just handing them cash. Let them write off the upgrades or give tax breaks.

We can all guess where the majority of this money will go though. Places friendly towards Obama.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Bateluer on 10/28/2009 10:02:48 AM , Rating: 2
Oh, I agree. I doubt this money is actually going to do anything to stimulate the economy or revamp any thing. It'll like the pockets of people friendly to Obama just like other 'stimulus' funds in the wasteful bills.


RE: Ya.....right....
By JPForums on 10/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: Ya.....right....
By ClownPuncher on 10/28/2009 6:54:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'll leave where the money is really going to your imagination.


To fund research on how gays caused dinosaur extinction?


RE: Ya.....right....
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/28/2009 10:03:47 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
We can all guess where the majority of this money will go though. Places friendly towards Obama.


How is this different from any past president?


RE: Ya.....right....
By acejj26 on 10/28/2009 10:13:06 AM , Rating: 5
When you run on the platform of "hope" and "change" and you act like previous presidents, how can you NOT knock him for it?


RE: Ya.....right....
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/28/2009 10:18:18 AM , Rating: 4
If you (or anyone else for that matter) thought that things were going to magically "turn around" once Obama got to the White House and saw how things REALLY operated, then... I don't know what to tell you.

Granted, I like the guy, but I'm not that stupid.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Mitch101 on 10/28/2009 10:42:51 AM , Rating: 2
I sense a South Park episode. Oh Wait they did that already.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Hiawa23 on 10/28/2009 10:49:05 AM , Rating: 1
Obama can't catch a break by many & I think he has some things okay & others no so okay, but I think he doing alright given the mess he was handed to, & it's almost hilarious that alot are making everything wrong with the country that has been wrong for decades all on him, but it comes with the territory I guess. I think this is good. The power companies continues to rip us off & we as consumers have very little option, & with very littl competition we are at their mercy. I guess some just thought things would magically fix themselves or the recession would be over when he took office. I am just praying that they keep him safe, as he seems to be in danger in & out of the country, he does his term & get out. He has made history & is an inspiration to many of us.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ya.....right....
By Iaiken on 10/28/2009 10:57:44 AM , Rating: 2
Reclaimer would know, they can smell their own...


RE: Ya.....right....
By Hiawa23 on 10/28/2009 11:04:50 AM , Rating: 2
That's what happens when you're a egotistical maniac who walks around like your shit doesn't stink.

Wow, some of you, I really don't think the man thinks like that, but to pull off what he pulled off, especially in this climate, I thought I would have never seen in this country, & I think you have to have some level of confidence in yourself. I think one of biggest reasons why he was elected was because so many were so upset with how things turned out under the last president, & that hurt McCain, & most would have voted for anyone on the other side.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/2009 11:11:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wow, some of you, I really don't think the man thinks like that


Then you are blind. Do you actually listen to him ?

The best is when he goes to other countries, bashes America, and says that because he's in charge now, we won't be an immoral illegal nation of savages anymore. I mean, have you actually heard him say ONE good thing, just one, about this country ? Has anyone ?


RE: Ya.....right....
By Hiawa23 on 10/28/2009 12:10:12 PM , Rating: 1
Then you are blind. Do you actually listen to him ?

I hear him loud & clear, & I am not blind at all, maybe I just disagree with you, as we all have our own opinions. I think as far as apologizing to other countries, I think he needed to do something as alot of countries had issues with our approach to dealing with other countries, or just taking over countries in the name of freedom, but behind the scene's it's about oil. We are not going to make Iraq or Afghanistan like the US, especially with corrupt governments so as far as I am concerned we should either get out or finish the missions, but think about it, cause as soon as we do, those countries will again fall to some dictator, or regime. I have nothing but respect for our military personnel, as I have had two brothers who served, & when they finally got out(ThankGod), they were total strangers to me as they have changed for the worst, one couldn't get the services he neeeded, but many countries have issues with how we inforce our will on anyone we see fit to. I question, how easy the elite or fat cats send our men & women to their grave & give them a medal like that is supposed to make the families feel okay or something. Many of us are prowd to be US citizens without the chess thumping many do, or the brow beating of every other country beating them over the head everytime we get a chance to shoving down their throats how great we are.


RE: Ya.....right....
By WW102 on 10/28/2009 2:39:21 PM , Rating: 2
Do you think we are the only country that does "chest thumping"? Do you know how many times countries try to bow up to us and tell the US how it is? The world isn't just a bunch of little countries doing there own thing with the US jumping on them telling them how its going to be.

Just do some research on Venezuela, Russia, China, N. Korea, Georgia, Honduras, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, India.

The fact is these countries are always more than willing to step up and tell everyone how things are going to work by there rules. Thats why we are always there to push back and show them how we want it to work.

Pretty much the first rule of Foreign Policy, Take care of your self first. The rest of the rules fall into place in some order behind this.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Spuke on 10/28/2009 2:54:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think as far as apologizing to other countries, I think he needed to do something as alot of countries had issues with our approach to dealing with other countries,
I'm still waiting to hear these so-called apologies that certain people of the press keep saying Obama has done. I watched him talk to the UN and right afterwards he was accused of sucking their asses. WTF? Was there a separate broadcast with a double of Obama that only certain people could watch?

I didn't vote for the guy but I also live in reality and prefer truth in whatever form it presents itself.


RE: Ya.....right....
By RandallMoore on 10/29/2009 3:59:32 PM , Rating: 1
you are such a tool.

quote:
or just taking over countries in the name of freedom


You deserved to be deported for that bullshit.

Lets set up a different scenario for you....
Suppose when the 9/11 attacks rolled around, Bush said; "Hey, since we have been such a bad influence in the world, We can just call this even".

YOU would have been the first motherfucker jumping up and down like an ape demanding that we "go to the middle east and kick their asses". Say you wouldn't. I dare you. And I'll call that bluff too.

Get the fuck out of my country you degenerate piece of shit.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/29/2009 6:06:34 PM , Rating: 1
Great post.

How quickly people forget. After 911 EVERYONE was onboard. Even the democrats voted for the war by a landslide.

But suddenly people started dying, everything didn't go quick and easy, and Democrats and the Press did what they do best : backslide, pander, bitch moan and bellyache and blame the other guy. With no regard for how much it puts our men and women oversees in danger when you cripple our resolve to fight effectively.

I saw on the news today Obama, saluting the flag draped coffins of dead servicemen coming home, and it made me sick. After our own general said he needs 10,000 more troops, Obama has done nothing but sit on his hands and postrate for months. Meanwhile people are DYING while he and his henchmen, again, politicize the War on Terror. He might as well have just shot them himself.

Not only did he lie about pulling us out, but since he took office we're seeing the highest casualty rates in our military yet. If you aren't going to fight a War with total resolve and a will to win, you are just putting our troops in MORE danger. There is no nice and polite way to kill someone or bomb a target.

I mean, it's like Vietnam all over again. Did we learn nothing ? When the people actually OVER there fighting the thing are telling you what they need and how it should be done, you f'ing listen to them ! DO NOT POLITICIZE IT !


RE: Ya.....right....
By William Gaatjes on 10/28/2009 5:31:45 PM , Rating: 2
When he is at the news ( maybe because i watch a foreign news agency) he is always proud to be an american and proud for what the USA as a whole has accomplished. When you look at the record of all the good things and bad things the USA is still ina big plus. But watch out for corruption. Democrate or conservative, corruption does take the side it needs for the moment. However, you should really watch for the hidden agenda of some conservative politicians. The democrats like al gore are usually a bit more to spot. With those corrupted conservatives you only find out 10 years later. Again, i do not mean to say all conservatives are corrupt as neither are all democrats corrupted. They are still people you know. Some good, some way to greedy.


RE: Ya.....right....
By MrBungle123 on 10/28/2009 11:34:43 AM , Rating: 2
Hiawa23,

please stop watching CNN and MSNBC... please... You're deluding yourself. Study the "progressive era" of the early 20th century, so you understand the roots of the philosophy (facism).

Everything Obama does is in some way taking more freedom from everyone. Look at his czars, his advisors, everyone in the upper levels of his staff... They're all radical communists, marxists, and people that have more in common with Hitler and Mussolini than the average american.

These leftists like Obama are claim to be "liberal" but when you examine their ideas and the end result of what they are trying to do the only things that they are truly liberal on are issues like gay righs, immigration, and thier fiscal policies... in every other regard they are authoritarian statists.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Hiawa23 on 10/28/2009 12:17:31 PM , Rating: 3
Hiawa23,

please stop watching CNN and MSNBC... please... You're deluding yourself.


You cats are hilarious. I mostly watch FOX News, can't stand Hannity or Glen Beck, but Bill O'reilly, Jeraldo & the others I like, & yes I also watch CNN & MSNBC but do my own research, make up my own mind, I don't just follow, like sheep, like many.

Some of you posters have some nerve as you have no idea what I watch so why even make the assumption?
.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Spuke on 10/28/2009 3:02:58 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Everything Obama does is in some way taking more freedom from everyone.
My freedoms and yours are still intact, thank you very much. I find it interesting that whenever liberals are in power, conservatives think it's the end of the world. Quite frankly, in American politics, all of the fruit falls from the same tree. Government is corrupt by definition which is why the founding fathers sought to limit its size and authority. But over the centuries, we have CHOSEN to give government more authority (or simply just clarified their authority). The fact remains, you can come on DT and bitch about them freely, you can vote for whomever you want freely (although we have enslaved ourselves to only voting for one of two parties). Everything we have, good or bad, is by OUR collective choices.

If you really are interested in change, quit voting only by party lines. Vote for the candidate, not the party. Otherwise, you've just agreed with everything that's happened or will happen whether you like it or not.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/29/2009 6:08:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My freedoms and yours are still intact


If you don't have the freedom of land, liberty, and the pursuit of justice, you really don't have any freedoms.

Think about it. It will probably dawn on you when you are old enough and start paying taxes.


RE: Ya.....right....
By MrBungle123 on 10/30/2009 4:07:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you really are interested in change, quit voting only by party lines. Vote for the candidate, not the party.


I didn't vote for either McCain or Obama in the last election.


RE: Ya.....right....
By xmichaelx on 10/28/2009 7:35:16 PM , Rating: 2
MrBungle123 says: "They're all radical communists, marxists, and people that have more in common with Hitler and Mussolini than the average american."

As an educated conservative who realizes he's a quickly becoming a dying breed thanks to paranoid parrots like yourself, I can only say this: You have no idea what Communism and Marxism are, and don't seem to realize that they are the opposite of totalitarianism. Surely there's a school near you that you could attend, where you could learn something and stop embarrassing yourself and those with whom you pretend to agree. If you choose your sites carefully, you could even learn about all this on the internet. Of course, that would require a level of information literacy that you simply don't possess.

I speak for thinking conservatives everywhere when I say, "Go away -- we don't want you."


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/29/2009 6:14:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I speak for thinking conservatives everywhere when I say, "Go away -- we don't want you."


Conservatives like you got us into this mess. "Conservatives" like you thought John McCain would be a great canadite. Now there's a "thinking" conservative if I ever saw one. The Pepsi One of Conservatives, nice and watered down and agreeable and liked by everyone. Good job.

I speak for all true Conservatives when I say to you "Stop pretending, and register Democrat"


RE: Ya.....right....
By MrBungle123 on 10/30/2009 12:34:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
As an educated conservative who realizes he's a quickly becoming a dying breed thanks to paranoid parrots like yourself, I can only say this: You have no idea what Communism and Marxism are, and don't seem to realize that they are the opposite of totalitarianism.


You do realize how completely absurd this statement is? Communism and Marxism are two sides of the same coin, they both revolve around this idea that the individual should give up their property for the good of the collective. Historically people in communist societies are forced to give up their property for the "good" of the collective and the people managing the wealth redistribution - the folks running the communist governments take a much bigger share for themselves then they allow their subjects to have.

If you are not allowed to keep the fruits of your own labor you are NOT free, you are a slave. A slave lives under a totalitarian system; works for a master and the master keeps the profit and gives the slave just enough to keep him working. Now explain to me the functional difference between slavery and communism as it has been executed throughout history... Oh wait they're basically the same thing, everyone works for the "collective" [slaves] the government [master] confiscates the wages earned by the citizens and redistributes them as they see fit taking the largest chunk for themselves.

Sorry, given your beliefs (I say beliefs because you’re factually wrong) on Communism and Marxism you’re anything but a conservative in the western sense of the term and as for being “educated” well… that’s up for debate.


RE: Ya.....right....
By deeznuts on 10/28/2009 12:54:07 PM , Rating: 3
He won basically on a bunch of stupid people believing him. That's obvious because there was no other fucking reason to vote for him, no experience, no substance, radical past. Without blindly believing he was going to bring hope and change, what exactly was a reason to vote for him? Hillary would have been better (yikes!)


RE: Ya.....right....
By Spuke on 10/28/2009 3:07:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Without blindly believing he was going to bring hope and change, what exactly was a reason to vote for him?
How else do people vote in Presidential elections? On a local level, people may vote on issues but sure as hell not on the Presidential election. It's nothing but "hope and change". When people realize the President has no real power, quits voting along strictly party lines, and actually gives a sh!t about the Congressional elections (again quit voting the party) then maybe someone of substance will happen. Until then, status quo in various wrappers.


RE: Ya.....right....
By WW102 on 10/28/2009 5:47:57 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure you understand how the Executive Branch Works. While I agree we need to start watching congress better, the president has a lot of power.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/2009 10:14:44 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
How is this different from any past president?


I don't remember past president's cheerleading to get the Olympics to come to their home state.

Guessed who owned the land where Chicago's would-be Olympic stadium was going to be built ? Yup, a major campaign contributor in his running for election.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Bateluer on 10/28/2009 10:15:50 AM , Rating: 2
You have a link to back that statement up? Saying it means nothing without evidence and proof.


RE: Ya.....right....
By deeznuts on 10/29/2009 3:18:11 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
by Bateluer on October 28, 2009 at 10:15 AM You have a link to back that statement up? Saying it means nothing without evidence and proof.


Are you sure you are ready Bateluer? I hate to be the one to begin the peeling back of the corrupt layers that is our White House administration.

Google Valerie Jarrett, The Habitat Company, slum, and Olympics, Grove Parc. Any of it, Seriously. Here's just one snippet just to get your whistle wet:

quote:
In an uncommonly hard-hitting investigative piece, the Boston Globe’s Binyamin Appelbaum blew the whistle on the rodent-infested, sewage-clogged Chicago slums run by the Obamas’ most trusted confidante. Jarrett refused to answer any questions about Grove Parc, “citing what she called a continuing duty to Habitat’s former business partners.” A “continuing duty,” presumably, to whitewash the inconvenient truth about the failed public-private partnerships the Obamas continue to promote in the White House:

“They are rapidly displacing poor people, and these companies are profiting from this displacement,” said Matt Ginsberg-Jaeckle of Southside Together Organizing for Power, a community group that seeks to help tenants stay in the same neighborhoods.

“The same exact people who ran these places into the ground,” the private companies paid to build and manage the city’s affordable housing, “now are profiting by redeveloping them.” In 2006, while Valerie Jarrett was executive vice president of Grove Parc’s management firm Habitat Company, federal inspectors graded the condition of the complex a bottom-of-the-barrel 11 on a 100-point scale. Another Habitat-mismanaged property called Lawndale Restoration was so run-down that city officials urged the federal government to take over the complex.

Jamie Kalven, a veteran Chicago housing activist, told the Boston Globe about Barack Obama: “I hope there is not much predictive value in his history and in his involvement with that community.” Kalven’s hopes will likely be dashed. As Chicago goes, so goes the nation. Obama has made a career of rewarding failure and no amount of overhyped “Hope” will change that. He sponsored a plethora of bills in the state Senate benefitting affordable housing developers. In February 2009, he unveiled a plan to set up a $1 billion Housing Trust Fund “to rehabilitate housing in the nation’s poorest neighborhoods.” “Trust Fund?” Try slush fund, bottomless pit, and eternal stimulus for the real estate moguls posing as saviors of urban America.

In one of those endless Chicago coincidences, Grove Parc Plaza Apartments—now targeted for demolition as a result of years of neglect by Obama’s developer friends—sits in the shadows of the proposed site of the city’s 2016 Olympics Stadium. Valerie Jarrett is vice chair of Chicago’s Olympics committee.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/28/2009 10:20:40 AM , Rating: 2
Again, what's your point? Presidents "give back" all the flippin' time. Bush Jr., Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon... you can probably go all the way back. They always give back to their supporters when it comes to doling out the money.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ya.....right....
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/28/2009 10:34:02 AM , Rating: 1
Wow, so much hate in a comment section being thrown around. I thought we were all friends around here. I guess not. Can't even have a discussion without name-calling and getting hit with the F-bomb for speaking an opinion.

Oh well. Have a nice day.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ya.....right....
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 10/28/2009 10:44:28 AM , Rating: 2
Hey, that's your choice. I have friends that are conservatives, liberals, and libertarians. We all get along, we sit around and discuss issues, but we don't fight each other over it. We have a difference of opinion, but that doesn't stop us from being friends.

I could never hate someone or dislike someone because of their political affiliation -- I would love to believe that we could move beyond that point.

But I'm just a generally loving person anyway. I can't stay mad at someone for a long period of time and I generally can get along with just about anyone.

I still love you man :-)


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: Ya.....right....
By Spuke on 10/28/2009 3:27:18 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Well I'm sorry, but I'm tired of politely sitting back and watch my country be torn apart from within.
There isn't anything happening now that hasn't already happened. Welfare, Medicaid, deficits, depressions, recessions, income tax, speed limits, all been done before, ad nauseam. A lot of this stuff happened before our time so we didn't get to vote or choose. Despite some hate for Dems, they are no different than Repubs. Same sh!t, different reason. I think your overreactions should be directed at government in general.


RE: Ya.....right....
By William Gaatjes on 10/28/2009 5:21:58 PM , Rating: 2
The only time a company innovates is when there is money to be made. And tax brakes is not enough. Research grands are needed. Look at how in the fifties silicon valley was started. Ip free research, collaboration with universities and stimulation of startups. That is why all the great companies that exist today exist. I agree this money is only handy when used a research and produce stimulant.
Now the research s already then, It is only a matter of upgrading the infrastructure with a view at the future.


RE: Ya.....right....
By William Gaatjes on 10/28/2009 5:23:40 PM , Rating: 2
Typing corrected.

The only time a company innovates is when there is money to be made. And tax brakes is not enough. Research grands are needed. Look at how in the fifties silicon valley was started. Ip free research, collaboration with universities and stimulation of startups. That is why all the great companies that exist today exist. I agree this money is only handy when used as a research and produce stimulant.
Now the research is already done, then it is only a matter of upgrading the infrastructure with a view at the future.


RE: Ya.....right....
By 3minence on 10/28/2009 10:27:41 AM , Rating: 2
We so need to get working on Nuclear plants. Greenpeace & friends can kiss my a$$.

At the same time, we need to apply the death penalty to anyone found breaking the law with respect to Nuclear materials. The last thing we need is to find all our old Nuclear waste in ships sunk off our own coast like Italy has.


RE: Ya.....right....
By William Gaatjes on 10/28/2009 5:24:23 PM , Rating: 2
I agree.


RE: Ya.....right....
By smackababy on 10/28/2009 9:32:59 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Third, who in their right mind uses a phrase like "improve reliability" when they are talking about two totally unreliable sources of energy in solar and wind? Neither are that reliable because we cannot control when the sun shines or when the wind blows.

While I don't have the brain functionality this morning to refute your first two points, I have to say that phrase makes perfect sense. If something is unreliable, why would someone not try to improve its reliability? Until people stop being ignorant about nuclear power, we are getting shafted by all alternatives. Now, if we do improve the grid enough to sustain long term solutions efficiently, maybe the money will be well spent for once.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Amiga500 on 10/28/2009 9:38:55 AM , Rating: 5
1. The cost savings would be reflected mostly in bills paid by the general public, not so much the government. Do you know the cost of not updating the grid (considered in light of continually increasing power demands)? Until you have some idea of that, probably better not to say anything.

2. Personal opinion.

3. There is more to a grid than sources and sinks. Improved redundancy of power lines will improve reliability.

It is easy to sit on a high horse and sling negative criticism. Not so easy to actually do something about the problems.


RE: Ya.....right....
By FITCamaro on 10/28/2009 9:59:36 AM , Rating: 3
No its not easy to fix problems. The government borrowing money though might fix one problem, but it then creates another. Which is worse? Having an out of date but currently functioning electrical system? Or having massive government deficits that will entail massive tax increases to pay for them? Which will cost jobs.


RE: Ya.....right....
By 67STANG on 10/28/2009 10:55:03 AM , Rating: 2
Who has to borrow money when they print it? All they'll do is make more-- which makes what we have, worth less.

In all fairness to Obama, the criticism of him on this board is slightly unwarranted.... the man has accomplished zero since he's been elected, yet he's getting flung in the gutter for everything he wants to do. I mean, if he had a majority in the House and the Senate, then he could really get us on track.


RE: Ya.....right....
By MrBungle123 on 10/28/2009 11:43:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
In all fairness to Obama, the criticism of him on this board is slightly unwarranted.... the man has accomplished zero since he's been elected, yet he's getting flung in the gutter for everything he wants to do. I mean, if he had a majority in the House and the Senate, then he could really get us on track.


Have you looked at what he wants to do?! I mean really looked at it? Not just read the title of the bills and what they claim it will do but actually studied how it intends to accomplish the stated goals then looked at how theses new policies would effect people over the long term? I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that the answer to these questions for you is a resounding no.

We can only hope that he continues to fail to actually accomplish anything. November 2010 can't get here soon enough.


RE: Ya.....right....
By 67STANG on 10/28/2009 1:26:06 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, thought the sarcasm of my post was more obvious.

Perhaps Michelle Obama will get more done than her hubby, as she has a record 22 assistants. Hopefully they are doing enough for her to warrant their combined $1.5M in salaries... ( Source: http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/06/what-miche... )


RE: Ya.....right....
By Spuke on 10/28/2009 3:33:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Perhaps Michelle Obama will get more done than her hubby, as she has a record 22 assistants.
Ok, so you found ONE instance of possible government waste. Whoop De Friggin Do!!!! Irrelevant.


RE: Ya.....right....
By FITCamaro on 10/28/2009 8:26:29 PM , Rating: 2
One instance?

If nothing else, how about Obama wasting his fucking time. He's had a report on Afghanistan on his desk for 2 months. What's he doing? Going around campaigning for Democrats. Telling us we burn too much gas and are killing the planet. Trying to get the Olympics. Need I go on?

Yeah...best president ever....I seem to recall liberals blasting Bush for taking short vacations. I agree with a previous comment. We can only hope that he continues to do absolutely nothing and fails where he tries. Otherwise we're all screwed.


RE: Ya.....right....
By MrBungle123 on 10/30/2009 12:42:52 PM , Rating: 2
I can think of 787 Billion examples of government waste that have already gone through, and know of at least 1.4 trillion that are on the table ready to go.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Iaiken on 10/28/2009 10:55:51 AM , Rating: 5
Having worked at the control center of Ontario Hydro during the blackout, one of my tasks I was involved in was to perform a risk assessment of the surrounding grids.

Our findings were that the state of the electricity grids of NY, MI, OH and PA are positively shameful and in many cases lacking any sort of monitoring or control systems. Hence when the 2003 blackout happened, the US was faced with three embarrassing factors:

1. They had no idea it was their fault.
2. They had no idea where or how it happened.
3. They had to be told by Canada where it had originated.

This doesn't even get into the problems of growing loads and static capacity (in many regions the grid is over 70 years old). Much of this is caused by the fact that most grids in the US (and now Canada) were deregulated and sold into the private sector. This resulted in an absence of expansion of capacity and redundancy in the US grid as the revenue driven companies resorted to reactive maintenance. Yes they continue to make new grids for new neighborhoods, but these lie behind the already ancient, inefficient and fault prone grid.

Now consider the golden triangle of the modern economy:

1. Energy
2. Finance
3. Agriculture

Each impacts the other in ways that boggle the mind and the 2003 blackout cost the North American economy over 6 Billion dollars and cost the world economy around half that. 3.4 billion dollars to save a potential future loss of 6 Billion or ore? Sounds like a smart investment to me...

Remember, the 2003 blackout could have been easily averted if modern grid monitoring and control systems had been in place. The grid was still recoverable for over an hour before a series of secondary and tertiary faults caused the grid to spiral out of control in the span of 6 seconds. Even then, the most modern grids were able to survive the blackout through a process of islandification where they shut themselves off from the rest of the grid and rebalanced their loads automatically.

While the IESO reports were never publicly published, they are used in the NERC reliability assessments and you can easily get a copy through the Canadian Freedom of Information Act.

NERC Assessments:
http://www.nerc.com/page.php?cid=4|61


RE: Ya.....right....
By ClownPuncher on 10/28/2009 11:59:23 AM , Rating: 2
I would hate to see posts like yours spark rational thinking and informed debate.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Amiga500 on 10/28/2009 1:09:12 PM , Rating: 2
Here? Don't be silly.

There is a special filtering system used here at DT - specially designed to avoid itself getting clogged with sh!te by letting all the sh!te posts through!!! :-D


RE: Ya.....right....
By tastyratz on 10/28/2009 10:00:05 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed.
The power grid is so much more, and america is sorely derelict in many areas. I think power grid reform is certainly necessary. Servicing ancient transformers and replacing failing lines is a necessity. Most of this will likely go to revamp in rural areas which desperately need it.

I do find myself at a crossroad with this though. The government is not responsible for the electric grid, the electric company is... and we are paying for their repairs. The grid in a state of disarray impacts the consumer more than the provider so its not always in their best interest to upgrade.

On one hand I don't like that we are paying their costs. While it needs to be done, it doesn't fix the problem... and that problem is what caused the electric grid to turn into as big of a mess as it is here. Sure we pay 3.4 billion out to fix some lines... but it doesn't stop them from decaying over the next few years through the exact same level of neglect.
To fix this problem would require some government regulation. I hate to say it but I think it might actually be a good thing (MINIMAL meddling). If the government mandated provider minimum service level agreements and things along the lines with consumer recourse it would be in their best interest to maintain their property and avoid the customer discounts/penalties/etc.
Stepping into regulation is dangerous territory though...


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ya.....right....
By Iaiken on 10/28/2009 11:17:28 AM , Rating: 2
History lesson!

The US government was responsible for the power grid before a previous "reform" sent it into the hands of the private sector where it has been basically degrading to the point where it will not be able to meet the future needs of America.

To counter your points, there are MANY areas where the current grid can be improved, the first is the upgrade of rubber insulated copper wire to steal jacketed copper wire. A system of fully automated generation control that can take advantage of intermittent power generation such as wind and solar. A modern monitoring and grid control system that will allow grid control technicians to keep the lights on.

As for your comments on smart meters, I am just going to flat out call you an idiot. A smart meter has NO control over what you have access to and is exactly what its name implies. What it DOES do, is track how much you consumed and when in great detail usually down to the hour and sometimes down to the second. This allows more accurate pricing of electricity and gas (which fluctuate every hour or more) and can lead to people saving money through engaging in off-peak usage. Previously, your usage curve was a single number, divided by the number of days between when your meter maid came by to record it.

Now consider that over the course of the day, electricity prices can fluctuate from $0.01/kWh to $0.70/kWh depending on demand, it actually becomes a tool that people can use to save themselves money and to help even out the load on the already ailing US electricity grid.

Finally, stop being a moron.


RE: Ya.....right....
By mholler on 10/28/2009 3:38:12 PM , Rating: 2
While I agree with your overall sentiment regarding the purpose of smart meters, you did resort to a bit of exaggeration at the end. $.70/kwh equates to $7000/mwh. Every ISO and RTO in the country has price caps that prevent the cost from getting that high. The ERCOT and MISO regions have price caps in the $3000/mwh range I believe and they are at the absolute highest end of the spectrum.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Iaiken on 10/28/2009 4:47:21 PM , Rating: 2
The IESO market also uses a price cap, however, they allowing bids of up to $9999.9999/MWh. This effectively means that they are "bidding the max" and all it takes is a piece of legislature to knock that cap up. In periods of extreme demand or extreme lack of supply it was a pretty common practice to see.

Normally it would look more like:

150 MWh @ $70 (the minimum bid they can make money on)
100 MWh @ $90
70 MWh @ $150
50 MWh @ $350
30 MWh @ $1000
20 MWh @ $9999

This is of course a simplified example, but it demonstrates how as they ramp up production, they charge more for squeezing the remaining generation capacity to meet the demand. So when they get to the point where the market needs that last 20 MWh, they are charging the market cap price for their entire capacity of 420MWh.


RE: Ya.....right....
By Reclaimer77 on 10/28/2009 4:58:57 PM , Rating: 2
You can't claim to want to save peoples money on their power bills, and then pass Cap and Trade. God you are thick.


RE: Ya.....right....
By xmichaelx on 10/28/2009 7:39:22 PM , Rating: 2
Cap and trade has existed (quite successfully, btw) for decades for a number of substances. Why are you only complaining about it now?

Parrots.


RE: Ya.....right....
By WW102 on 10/28/2009 5:58:43 PM , Rating: 2
Right more accurate pricing, so where as they won't be turning off your AC or Heat from a remote location, they can charge you more money for using electricty during peak hours as you said. And by that method, they can basically control when you turn your AC on or off.


RE: Ya.....right....
By thurston on 10/28/2009 6:56:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
they can charge you more money for using electricty during peak hours


Hate to break it to you, but they already do that.


RE: Ya.....right....
By WW102 on 10/30/2009 10:31:28 AM , Rating: 2
Learn how residential is billed different than industrial. Then come talk to me.


RE: Ya.....right....
By sinful on 10/28/2009 10:30:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Right more accurate pricing, so where as they won't be turning off your AC or Heat from a remote location, they can charge you more money for using electricty during peak hours as you said. And by that method, they can basically control when you turn your AC on or off.


So you're FOR pricing inaccuracy???

So if your neighbors use a bunch of juice, and because of pricing inaccuracy YOU end up paying extra, you're all for that?
THAT'S SOCIALISM!

If you're against pricing accuracy you're FOR SOCIALISM!!!!

I'll take ACCURATE pricing and pay for what *I* use, thank you very much.


RE: Ya.....right....
By WW102 on 10/30/2009 10:33:57 AM , Rating: 2
If you post like that youre for being a Retard. Seriously, for someone to say that you are using to much power right now, compared to someone else you pay more. That is Socialism. Also for the government to say this doll factory needs the power for its production so to insure they have the power they need we will charge you out the ass so you can't even think about using power is what they will do.


RE: Ya.....right....
By mdogs444 on 10/28/2009 10:05:50 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
1. The cost savings would be reflected mostly in bills paid by the general public, not so much the government. Do you know the cost of not updating the grid (considered in light of continually increasing power demands)? Until you have some idea of that, probably better not to say anything.

Right. All those "cost savings" to the public would disappear (if they were ever present to begin with) and still cost more per month because of cap & tax.


RE: Ya.....right....
By nafhan on 10/28/2009 10:09:19 AM , Rating: 2
Improving the power grid is the type of project that could potentially provide positive return on investment for the country as a whole, and that makes it the best aspect of O's energy plan.
I'm worried, however, that the money will be allocated disproportionately towards communities that are building the renewable power sources advocated by the administration. It's still better than blowing money on windmills...


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