backtop


Print 74 comment(s) - last by Lerianis.. on Dec 6 at 11:51 AM


Under President Bush researchers were banned from using new stem cell lines for federally funded research. President Obama has now lifted that ban, allowing 13 new stem cell lines to be applicable for potentially life-saving federally funded research.

Embryonic stem cells can be put to use developing treatments for diseases such as Parkinson's, sickle cell anemia, diabetes, and spinal cord injuries.  (Source: University of Wisconsin)
Researchers now have access to 13 new lines of stem cells, opening a wealth of possibilities

Embryonic stem cell lines promise to unlock incredible new therapies, allowing tissue types to be regrown and diseases such as Parkinson's disease, sickle cell anemia, and spinal cord injuries/defects to be truly treated for the first time.  However, a moral debate long limited these potentially life-saving research tools.  Under President Bush, only embryonic stem cell lines in existence before August 9, 2001 were allowed for federally funded research (which was significant considering most university biotech researchers involves some degree of federal funding).  Newer lines were expressly forbidden from federal funding.

Now, President Barack Obama's administration has thrown that policy away according to the New York Times, allowing the first of many new embryonic stem cell lines to be approved.  The National Institutes of Health announced Wednesday that federal researchers now have legal access to 13 new embryonic stem cell lines.  Over 96 more lines are under review and may soon be approved.

Embryonic stem cells are typically derived from embryos left over at in vitro fertility clinics.  Opening more lines is significant for many reasons.  First, it is notoriously hard to keep stem cells growing and dividing in their original state for almost 10 years.  Genetic changes may skew test results and lead to misleading conclusions.

Secondly, it's important to have multiple lines accessible to verify that phenomena observed are applicable to all stem cells or just certain lines.  This information is essential if doctors are to ever hope to seriously treat diseases on a widespread basis with stem cells.

During the ban, researchers were able to finance some work on new lines via independent financing, but found themselves buried under mounds of government red tape, namely the necessity to keep the independently financed lines in separate areas.  Describes Ali H. Brivanlou, a researcher at Rockefeller University, "You can imagine what it meant not to be able to carry a pipette from one room to another.  They even had to repaint the walls to ensure no contamination by federal funds."

Two of the new lines were derived via private funding and through the work of Dr. Brivanlou's group.  Dr. George Daley of Children’s Hospital, Boston prepared the remaining 11 lines.  Dr. Francis S. Collins, director of the health agency, says that despite the fact that researchers can't derive their own lines, most understand that the decision to open up more lines is a major step forward.  He describes, "I’m not sure everyone is interested in deriving their own cell lines as long as they can get lines from others."

In recent years the controversy over the ban on new stem-cell lines has eased slightly with the discovery of induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs).  As time has passed, though, iPSCs now appear a less viable option than previously thought.  Like embryonic stem cells, they require complex chemical and physical stimuli to differentiate into the proper cell type.  However, unlike embryonic stem cells, they carry an additional tumorigenic (cancer) risk due to the mutagenic agents used to force the cells into pluripotency.  New methods of induction are being devised, but the risks largely remain to date. 



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Great!!!!
By mcnabney on 12/2/2009 3:40:48 PM , Rating: 5
Maybe now they can start making some real progress on a cure for Alzheimer's before it turns me into a quivering, moaning shell of humanity.

/know it is coming
//which makes it even scarier




RE: Great!!!!
By amanojaku on 12/2/2009 3:43:18 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
quivering, moaning shell of humanity
Are you sure that's Alzheimer's? ;-)


RE: Great!!!!
By Smartless on 12/2/2009 3:59:04 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah marriage, kids, Windows Me, the Twilight series, they are all potential causes.


RE: Great!!!!
By mcnabney on 12/2/2009 4:25:42 PM , Rating: 2
I dodged two of those, but my wife and kids are pretty good. It is my DNA that is bad.


RE: Great!!!!
By Flunk on 12/2/2009 4:12:49 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, might even save me from my early heart attack I'm genetically predisposed to. Actually I think I'd rather die to a heart attack than Alzheimers.


RE: Great!!!!
By mcnabney on 12/2/2009 4:24:26 PM , Rating: 5
My current favorite form of death is at the age of 78 to be shot cleanly in the head by the young ladies boyfriend after I finished servicing her. The long and slow march into non-personhood from AZ is ranked somewhere below going feet-first into a chipper/shredder.


RE: Great!!!!
By MrPoletski on 12/3/2009 8:27:49 AM , Rating: 2
hehe,

but seriously, I think massive brain trauma would be the worst way to go.

Your brain does everything it can to save the conscious mind before death, so having a heart attack, while painful initially, will give you a slow drift into non-existance while brian trauma would just be the end.

Given the nature of the mind, I think that apon 'acknowledgement' of impending death, the conscious minds perception of time is stretched for as long as possible.

This would explain people who get knocked out 'seeing things' aka dreaming or whatever and perceive the time they were 'out of it' as being much longer than it actually was.

Case in point, a friend of mine playing football went headfirst into a tree (a goalpost). Struck on the temple pretty hard he rolled over then got up a second later slurring 'wtf was that?'. He was out for under a second but thought he'd been out for hours. Said he dreamed about when he was a kid and stuff. No lasting damage (except what has always been there)

Weird, but indicative of what I was saying...


RE: Great!!!!
By Hiawa23 on 12/3/2009 9:02:16 AM , Rating: 2
I am not religious, so I am all for doing whatever they can do to hopefully find cures to many of our ills & diseases.


All I have to say is...
By R6Raven on 12/2/2009 3:37:20 PM , Rating: 5
It's about damn time.




RE: All I have to say is...
By ClownPuncher on 12/2/2009 3:54:05 PM , Rating: 2
I love my baby back baby back riiiibs.


RE: All I have to say is...
By Fenixgoon on 12/2/2009 7:16:20 PM , Rating: 3
Starcraft II?


RE: All I have to say is...
By KCjoker on 12/2/2009 8:10:55 PM , Rating: 1
It's good news but Adult Stem Cells have been far better in treatments of illness.


Soylent Green
By braveneworld on 12/4/2009 3:49:19 AM , Rating: 2
The problem I see with opening up the pool of embryonic stem cell donors, is that it we will start a slow march to a society that values human life on the whims of those in power.
If the future Czars decide that the embryos that have developed to a point that most of us would consider an abortion, now could 'possibly' serve to cure a disease, then it will be deemed OK to 'harvest' those 'embryos'.
Thus paving the way for us to rationalize the taking of any life we deem as 'less valuable' to the community, for the sake of the mere possibility that maybe someday we will find a cure for whatever ailment.
Those who now flippantly get an abortion, because it's 'their body', may at some future point become pregnant, or go to a sperm bank, turned embryo farm, since it's 'their body', and a girl needs her spending cash.

Doubtless someone will say that ,if we don't do it some other country will, and make the profit off of us. (I would estimate China the first to do so.)

The question we will ultimately have to ask ourselves is:
Do we take the next step down the path to the slippery slope, or take the time to consider that all life has value, no matter what our government appointed 'life counselors' may try to rationalize.

It sickens me to think how cold and devoid of love the brave new world of the future, we are racing to create, may be.

But I guess we should just take our soma, and not stress the 'little things' right.




Ok seriously
By postalbob on 12/3/09, Rating: -1
I'll give Mick some credit
By ZachDontScare on 12/2/09, Rating: -1
RE: I'll give Mick some credit
By hashish2020 on 12/2/2009 6:01:59 PM , Rating: 4
Government funded research is wrong, full stop?

Hope you hate all the awesome advances that came from government research that would never come from other sources

You must hate pure science


By GodisanAtheist on 12/2/2009 7:07:06 PM , Rating: 2
And how.

Lets not forget that a bunch of communists beat us to space while the Lord's Prayer & Free Market were twiddling their thumbs. It would be difficult to deny the technological benefits of funding "economically nonsensical" research that opens doors no one even knew existed.

There aren't a lot of things in this world that really benefit from globs of tax payer money, but scientific endeavor is most one of them. It is also one of the rare taxpayer expenditures that often turns around and actually helps EVERYONE, not just some select few that are too poor or too old.


RE: I'll give Mick some credit
By zsdersw on 12/3/09, Rating: -1
sneaking action t4 in
By rika13 on 12/3/09, Rating: -1
No breakthroughs.
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By corduroygt on 12/2/2009 4:11:47 PM , Rating: 5
More stem cells and more options is never a bad thing in research, and can drive the costs of such research down. This is finally the first thing Obama did that I can support. No need to limit our medical progression because of some people's irrational adherence to concepts of morality taken from 2000 year old fairy tales.

As for planned parenthood, I don't care what people do in there as long as it's not coming out of my pockets.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By mcnabney on 12/2/2009 4:29:50 PM , Rating: 5
Embryo=/baby
Medical reseatch has nothing to do with the fracas in health care
The embryos used for stem cells are unwanted leftovers from In Vitro clinics that would normally be disposed of as biological waste. They are not people. Legally, they are property.
You have got to stop watching Fox News...


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By Armassault on 12/2/2009 5:01:58 PM , Rating: 4
Reclaimer77, if what you say is true, how do you explain Denmark?
Denmark has Universal Healthcare. Probably one of the largest socialized health care systems in the world, per capita.
At the same time it has one of the most successful private medical research sectors, doing groundbreaking research in fields like diabetes, cancer and anti-depressants.

Your point of view is much too simplistic. It's taken out of the conservative text book on how to scare the public away from necessary progress.
There is NOTHING that prevents private companies from doing research under a universal healthcare system. If anything, you get a more efficient system, with considerable "economy of scale" benefits.

Why do you think we need dozens of private companies doing the exact same research? Could it be more efficient if those companies could share their knowledge, so they didn't have to waste ressources just to arrive at the same goal?
Universal healthcare means there's a system in place overseeing the research, making sure the research can be focused on the areas that need it the most.
Too much time and money is being wasted doing research another company already completed years ago.
I see no problem with ending that.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/09, Rating: 0
RE: No breakthroughs.
By McDragon on 12/2/2009 5:23:31 PM , Rating: 1
I see no reason why his statements should not scale in your context.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Armassault on 12/2/2009 5:34:23 PM , Rating: 3
You're right, Denmark is a very small country of only 5 million people.
Yet it has a medical research industry that is doing groundbreaking work. AND it has had Universal Healthcare for over a century.
What was your point again? You can't have both Universal Healthcare AND great medical research?

Denmark is hit by the financial crisis too.

I don't get your objection about "per capita" comparisons.
Yes, Denmark has fewer people, but it also has fewer tax payers.
Compare it to New York if you will, which has about 8 million people. Does New York have Universal Healthcare while doing groundbreaking medical research?

The European Union has 500 million citizens, and every country has Universal Healthcare today.

What was your point again?


RE: No breakthroughs.
By hashish2020 on 12/2/2009 5:57:27 PM , Rating: 3
And we spend hundreds of billions to trillions anyway on public health, from the VA to medicare/medicaid/SCHIP to the health insurance for government employees, like the one we buy for Jon Kyl, and yet we can't cover everybody and our health outcomes are among the worst in the OECD

Yet magically, the private system that noone wants to change is better for us?

And if you think that the private sector is really coming up with most advances, go look at NIH and CDC projects' bang for the buck...not to mention Medicaire pays for residencies for our doctors


RE: No breakthroughs.
By iFX on 12/3/2009 11:21:22 AM , Rating: 3
They have 5 million people and ridiculously high taxes. We have 300 million legals and 20 million illegals and very looow taxes.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Armassault on 12/3/09, Rating: 0
RE: No breakthroughs.
By corduroygt on 12/2/2009 4:33:45 PM , Rating: 2
I don't support socialized healthcare, so let's get that off the bat. I didn't support anything Obama did until this.

About your second point, would you kill a single baby if it meant you could save hundreds of thousands of people? I would. This is just like that, except I associate a baby with something that has a head, body, arms, and legs, and conscious. 5 days after fertilization you don't have a baby, it's a still a clump of cells.

Aside from tax evasion or having someone independent at the White House that's not from either party, unfortunately we all have to pay for other people's abortions, etc. It's best not to think about things like that...


RE: No breakthroughs.
By ZachDontScare on 12/2/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By RubberJohnny on 12/2/2009 10:19:30 PM , Rating: 5
Can't believe this got rated a 5, what a ridiculous statement...99% of the population doesn't know what the hell will eventually kill them so should they pick something to support now or wait untill they have a condition?...even more ridiculous when you think what a wide gamut of medical conditions stem cells have the potential to fix...it really is the best bang for your buck when deciding what research should be funded to help the majority of people.

By your logic I should be pissed off that my countries government (and by proxy myself) is funding research that may eventually get used by someone in your country. I can tell you now public funds will NEVER be divided up 100% to everyone's liking but how about showing a little compassion, even if you aren't helped by this research chances are one of your loved ones will be...


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By IUnknown on 12/2/2009 4:52:22 PM , Rating: 5
That "clump of cells" will not do much once it is thrown in the trash.

I'll never understand why the religious right is all holier than thou when it comes to stem cell research but doesn't seem to mind fertility clinics "killing babies" every day when they throw out the trash.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By ChickenMcTest on 12/2/2009 4:57:57 PM , Rating: 5
Really? Should my sister then be prosecuted as a murderer because she had a miscarriage?

The potential to become a human does not equal human.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By ChickenMcTest on 12/2/2009 5:41:23 PM , Rating: 5
My understanding of your claim was:

Embryonic stem cell research is wrong because once sperm and egg have fused you have a person, a human being.

quote:
As an American, I believe that "clump of cells" that WILL eventually become a person, should be entitled to the same chance of life that I had. That "clump of cells" should be protected under the Consitution. It IS a life, and trying to rationalize around that because you don't want to face the horrible truth doesn't change that.


If you are saying that a embryo is entitled to the same rights as any American citizen, then, a mother who miscarries her child should be investigated for murder or gross negligence.

Is there a flaw in my logic?


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Gondorff on 12/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By ChickenMcTest on 12/3/2009 1:28:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Miscarriages are neither the intention of the mother, nor often a direct effect of anything she has done.
A pregnant woman who purposefully boozed it up with the intention of messing with her baby would, however, be morally culpable if something should happen, as should be obvious. However, I doubt this is generally the case.


You stated my point over again?

If we are giving full rights to embryos a miscarriage needs to be investigated to see if the mother is partially responsible for the death.

I am not saying the mother is at fault, I am saying an criminal investigation needs to occur.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By fearrun on 12/3/2009 8:59:57 PM , Rating: 2
If you are assuming that the mother is culpable because she is the primary caretaker (the embryo or unborn life is dependent on her), then this perspective can also be used to view any life that is in need of a caretaker because of their inability to properly sustain themselves.

So, any death where the supposed victim's life was dependent on someone else a criminal investigation would need to occur. Anyone morally or ethically responsible could essentially be seen as suspect under such an investigation. There are steps taken in the investigation of a death prior to determining if there was any criminal act, so as to not escalate all death to crimes.

I believe Gondorff, may have been trying to point out that there are countless scenarios where the mother would likely have little or no awareness of variables that possibly resulted in a miscarriage.

I am also dismayed that Gondorff's reply was rated down to a negative. I did not see anything inflammatory or disparaging in his post that would warrant a response like that. He seemed very open with his logic and philosophical perspective.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Gondorff on 12/4/2009 4:49:08 AM , Rating: 3
Thank you fearrun for elucidating my point; perhaps I should have been more clear.

To restate: my point was that unless there was significant evidence put forward for the mother's culpability, there would be no need for investigation. This is simply a matter of logistics, and would be no different than investigations for other accidents in which people were hurt. If there is no immediate evidence of foul-play, then there is no need to waste resources investigating.

Thank you also fearrun for your dismay at my post's down-rating. I am frankly shocked that that post was rated down, as well as tmouse's post below. The ratings are meant to weed out posts that are not worth reading because of immaturity or irrelevance or other things of that nature. They are not meant for censoring of ideas that merely go against the majority opinion. Tmouse's post, and my own as best as I was able, were rationally argued opinions that tried simply to stimulate intellectual discourse. I challenge readers here to use their voting power to stimulate and not hamper intelligent discourse; I know it is one of the reasons that I still read here.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By tmouse on 12/4/2009 8:09:11 AM , Rating: 3
We just assign an arbitrary time point where before that point we do not look but after we do. After 6 months miscarriages without clear underlying medical reasons are investigated. One can argue the establishment of medical reasons for the event is in fact an investigation. All doctors are required to notify authorities of any suspicious miscarriages after the legal permissible date for abortions. Governments constantly sanction death of humans for any number of reasons. Just because we do not require criminal investigations of humans under 6 months of gestation doesn't make them not human. I'm not against abortion per se, but I do believe people should accept the fact that they are making a decision that does in fact destroy human life. If they are ok with that and society is, then I won't stand in their way, but I do not think it should ever be a casual decision.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By tmouse on 12/3/09, Rating: 0
RE: No breakthroughs.
By MozeeToby on 12/3/2009 12:37:27 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
There is simply no arguing this point from a scientific perspective.
Whaaaaaa??? There's no arguing that statement? I was going to post a longer comment pointing out the massive falacy of you statement but I'll settle with this: Whether something is genetically human or not does not determine whether it is phylosophically human or not.

It may sound sci-fi but the best example I can think of is that sentient aliens landing in New York, by your definition, would not be accorded basic human rights. Similarly, by your definition, a brain dead accident victim is deserving of the exact same rights as a living person. It doesn't make sense to say 'human genes' == 'human being'.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Gondorff on 12/4/2009 4:35:00 AM , Rating: 3
No, the previous poster was correct. 'Human being' is a scientific term, not a philosophical one. The philosophical idea that you are confusing this with is the idea of personhood. This maintains that simply being human is not enough for a being to have rights; rather, a being must also be considered a "person", which is usually defined as a being that has consciousness, rational thought, etc. Since these characteristics are decided by the society, this notion would fall under the idea of rights being bestowed by society, as I outlined in my above post. Being a human being, however, is decided by our biological makeup.

As for your example of aliens, the answer is simple: aliens would not have human rights, they would have "alien rights" because they are clearly not human. That is simply by definition of what human rights are, namely, rights that are appropriate for humans. Now, these alien rights could be exactly the same in content as human rights if that were fitting, but by definition, the two are distinct notions.

Please, do look up the philosophy behind this discourse; it is very interesting and worth studying, on both sides of the argument. Also, it will give you the vocabulary to carry on intelligent debates without getting bogged down in misunderstandings of language like this one. :)


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Gondorff on 12/4/2009 4:55:33 AM , Rating: 2
Note:
For more on the idea of personhood, look up Mary Anne Warren's works. She is a renowned philosopher who was one of the first to provide a philosophical backing for abortion right around the time of Roe v Wade. She fleshes out the idea of personhood that has shaped much of the arguments for abortion and stem cell, etc, to this day. My guess is that you will find a clear rendition of what you were trying to express in your response to tmouse.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By tmouse on 12/4/2009 7:43:15 AM , Rating: 3
Of course anyone can argue anything, Perhaps I should have added the phrase scientifically argue. People have calmed themselves with the false comfortable notion that a human embryo is not a human being, this is patently false. In your second example, yes a brain dead human is still a human, it is not a cat or dog or anything else. By the fact of our ability to assist in the maintenance of their life we, as a society can choose to terminate their life, but we are still terminating a human life. We make a judgment call of the cost analysis of the value of that life. In case you didn't realize in the majority of states if you take a "brain dead" person off of the ventilator and they keep breathing you cannot just kill them because they didn't die (I will not even go into the withholding of feeding that is quite frankly murder since not one single person on this planet could live without food or water if they were not able to get it on their own). We go to war and kill people based upon estimating the value of the lives of the combatants and civilians against some other measure. During war it is common to de-humanize the enemy by using terms like krauts, wops japs, gooks ragheads ect. It in many ways helps to de-humanize before killing people. We have done this by taking a scientific term embryo, and assuming that a embryo is not the organism it will grow into, this is patently absurd. I have no trouble with a society that accepts things like abortion provided we accept what we are doing. Thinking about embryos as merely bunches of cells and not as a stage of human growth will easily lead to acceptance and commercialization of this "material" and, in my opinion, any species that prolongs its life with widespread cannibalization of its young is a degenerate one (anyone else is of course free to differ). As for your alien statement I did say scientific not philosophic. There will probably be some acceptance of some form of sentient rights. Whether we offer then to the aliens will be based on whether they believe we have any rights.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By croc on 12/3/2009 12:18:08 AM , Rating: 3
I think you mean 'As a right-wing, 'born again' christian gun-toting American nut job' you believe that something that is alive is life and therefore sacrosanct. OK, how about chooks? Are they not life? Cattle? Plants? Chook eggs? Corn kernels? Wheat kernels?


RE: No breakthroughs.
By MrPoletski on 12/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By AEvangel on 12/2/09, Rating: 0
RE: No breakthroughs.
By amanojaku on 12/2/2009 4:38:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm not a Christian, but yes, I have a problem with killing babies JUST to harvest their stem cells. This article does Bush a big injustice because he did NOT ban stem cell research. He banned the practice of killing babies for the sole purpose of harvesting the stem cells. I honestly didn't have a problem with that.
I don't think that's correct. According to Bush the sources for embryonic stem cells are unwanted or unusable embryos.
quote:
Once a couple successfully has children, or if they are unsuccessful, the additional embryos remain frozen in laboratories.

Some will not survive during long storage; others are destroyed. A number have been donated to science and used to create privately funded stem cell lines. And a few have been implanted in an adoptive mother and born, and are today healthy children.
In other words, those embryos were likely to be destroyed, anyway. I'm all for life when adoptive parents can be found, but if we're just going to destroy them we might as well use them. It's not like we don't already use dead bodies for science.

And let me state that I am COMPLETELY against women getting pregnant just to sell embryos. From what I can tell, the current parents are not paid for their embryos, but rather pay to get themselves pregnant due to difficulties conceiving.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/re...


RE: No breakthroughs.
By ChickenMcTest on 12/2/2009 4:52:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
First off, you have to realize a large research industry and socialized health care do NOT go hand in hand. Why do you think United States does the lions share of medical research in the world ?


I think you are confused.

Private insurance companies do not preform a great deal of medical research. Medical research is generally performed by medical products companies, pharmaceutical companies, universities, and research hospitals.

The US does the lions share of research because the lions share of those companies, universities, and hospitals are located in the United States.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By ClownPuncher on 12/2/2009 5:04:02 PM , Rating: 2
No, we really don't have a free market health care system. Haven't for years.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Reclaimer77 on 12/2/09, Rating: -1
RE: No breakthroughs.
By ClownPuncher on 12/2/2009 5:12:41 PM , Rating: 2
Check your paystubs, they probably have MediCARE or MedicAID deductions, yea?


RE: No breakthroughs.
By zsdersw on 12/3/2009 8:22:54 AM , Rating: 2
It's not a free market. It's more like a mafia system, with certain "cartels" in control in certain areas. You can choose only between X insurance company and Y insurance company. Z insurance company is not available to you because X and Y don't want it to be.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By zsdersw on 12/3/2009 8:36:17 AM , Rating: 2
I'll also add that, in addition to Medicare and Medicaid, all of us with health insurance pay for the medical care received by those without. That's definitely socialized something.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By ChickenMcTest on 12/2/2009 5:35:38 PM , Rating: 1
By your rational there would be no money for any government contractor. Yet this is totally not true.

Also the fastest area of growing sales for US based firms like Abbott Labs, Medtronic, St. Joseph are foreign countries, all of whom run socialized systems.

quote:
The US does the lions share of research because the lions share of those companies, universities, and hospitals are located in the United States.

NO shit Sherlock, and why is that ? Because we have a FREE MARKET HEALTH CARE system maybe ???


More likely because the you can only get the education needed to engineer these products in the US or some European countries.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By MrPoletski on 12/3/2009 8:58:11 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
There won't be a reason to do stem cell research when the government is going to take over the health care industry. There won't be ANY MONEY IN DOING IT !


Explain to me why there wouldn't be any money in it?

So.. universal healthcare in the states arrives, then some dude invents a technique that completely cures spinal paralysis of any kind.

And you're telling me, that because people get taxpaid healthcare, he would stand to make no money from that?

What planet are you on?

Poeple like you are damn irritating to argue with, because you don't seem to understand how retarded the points you make are and then get all upset when poeple treat you like the idiots you are.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By mikefarinha on 12/2/2009 5:00:07 PM , Rating: 2
No, you're confused. Who do you think the 'medical product companies' get paid from?

Medical Insurance.

You squeeze the medical insurance companies you squeeze the medical product companies.

You're blind if you don't see this for what it is... a gargantuan power grab by our politicians and their cronies.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By MrPoletski on 12/3/2009 8:50:47 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
First off, you have to realize a large research industry and socialized health care do NOT go hand in hand. Why do you think United States does the lions share of medical research in the world ?


Because it has the money to, that question in no way reflects on the accuracy of your first statement despite how much you want it to. We don't have to realise anything. You have to realise that you're full of shit.

quote:
Obama's proposed healthcare changes will, repeat WILL, destroy the medical research industry in this country.


Why? because Sarah Palin said so?

Suppose you think he's a Kenyan Muslim too right?


RE: No breakthroughs.
By mikefarinha on 12/2/09, Rating: 0
RE: No breakthroughs.
By ClownPuncher on 12/2/2009 5:00:44 PM , Rating: 2
You are not doing the pro life people any favors by posting shit like that. Care to be more irrational? If you cant see the difference between those two scenarios, then pro choice has won and can chalk it up to crazies.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By puckalicious on 12/2/2009 4:16:47 PM , Rating: 5
Because there are some conditions that adult stem cells will never be suitable for.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By Hiawa23 on 12/3/2009 10:35:45 AM , Rating: 2
Just celebrated my daughter's 12th b-day yesterday, & 12 years ago, my then, college roomate/girlfriend who doctor's told would never be able to have kids magically ended up pregnant, & she wouldn't get the abortion even though I tried to physically force her on many occassions.

I say that to say this, I don't know how my life would have turned out had she gotten the abortion but I am glad she did not. I am pro choice as no one should tell any women what is right for her to do with her body, & when the religious or pro life folks get on their soap box, in my mind, it's really is no one's business, & any women should have the right to terminate a pregnancy if she deems this is best solution for her. It's about time about the stem cells, hopefully they will stumble on a cure for something.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By feelingshorter on 12/2/2009 4:29:20 PM , Rating: 4
And you fail to understand that these adult stem cells are induced into their semi pluripotent state by using factors discovered via embryonic stem cells. No, you wont be improving adult stem cells any time soon without embryonic stem cells. They are not a replacement for the real thing because even with the genetics we know today, no one can selectively unlock pieces of DNA that is locked away tightly around histones.

Not to mention many other issues with these adult stem cells. And not all stem cells have even been discovered yet that branches from embryonic stem cells with the latest literature on the matter stating that as a fact.

I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining this in layman's terms but why don't you go read the original published article on the matter? Or easier yet, read reviews on the topic given by reputable publishers such as the New England Journal of Medicine (which writes it in a more easy to understand vocabulary than research journals).


RE: No breakthroughs.
By tmouse on 12/3/2009 8:58:20 AM , Rating: 2
You could not be further wrong. The main goal in adult stem research is to use amplified isolated in situ progenitor cells. It is believed that many of these cell types like undifferentiated mesenchymal cells (which are really more of a pluri-potential cell than adult stem cell but it really is merely a matter of how much potential restriction one needs to make this arbitrary distinction)are maintained as a reserve of sorts. It's quite probable we have many micro events that are fixed using these reserves throughout our lifetimes. It's when the damage is too extensive that the ability of the local reserves or migratory reserves simply cannot overcome the damage done due in part to the destruction of the local cellular milieu needed to help direct these cells. What your describing is the induced pluri-potential stem cells. There are several published studies that have demonstrated the oncogenic potential of embryonic stem cells, and these were done using freshly prepared murine cells from embryos not the extensively passaged stuff. The maintenance of multiple embryonic stem cells lines for clinical treatment is more science fiction than science. In reality fresh lines would have to be constantly rederived and a large selection would have to be maintained since type matching would still have to be done (yes I do know they do not express type specific antigens in their stem cell state but after they differentiate they will express the antigens they are coded for and that means either the death of the tissue or a life of suppressive therapy). Even with the ability to amplify these lines in vitro the amount needed for functional therapeutic treatment would require an enormous amount of embryos. Also keep in mind about 1/3 of all conceptuses are defective, whether that effects the stem cells derived from them is still unknown. Anything maintained in tissue culture will become abnormal, the conditions of most medias would kill a human and there is chromosomal abnormalities and loss of epigenomic regulation. We still have so much to learn using animal stem cells (which now often do not get funded because it is not "sexy" enough) this "lack of human lines deterring advances" concepts are really laughable.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By MrPoletski on 12/3/2009 9:02:17 AM , Rating: 4
Unfortunately, those articles you talk about and sugest pro lifers to go and read contain words too long for the average pro-lifer to understand.=)


RE: No breakthroughs.
By ChickenMcTest on 12/2/2009 4:41:05 PM , Rating: 1
quote:

The facts are there have been no breakthroughs in embryo stem cell research. Every big development in stem cell research has come from ADULT stem cells. Depending on who's numbers you use, most experts admit we are some 5-10 years away from practical ebmbryonic stem cell treatments.

Adult stem cell research is HERE, it's already proven, and is a lot closer to seeing widespread adoption of treatments. Why isn't the focus on that?


My understanding is that embryonic stem cells are easier to harvest and use, but I could be totally mistaken.

quote:
Why this obsession by the Obama administration with abortions ?


I am not sure why you think the Obama administration is obsessed with abortions. He campaigned on protecting a woman's right to choose and I don't think he has made any unexpected policy decisions.

quote:
How much of the "stimulus" went to "planned parenthood", and how does it tie into this decision.


Planned parenthood received $350 million in government grants and contracts during its 2007-8 fiscal year. Which is not a major increase from $336 in 2006-7 or $305 in 2005-6. Abortion services are less than 3% of Planned Parenthoods total expenditures.


RE: No breakthroughs.
By jkresh on 12/2/2009 4:41:40 PM , Rating: 2
Adult stem cell research has some use but is unlikely to hold the same potential (certainly in the near term as embryonic). Part of the reason adult has moved seemingly faster then embryonic is it actually had funds available for the last 8 years.

As to "killing babies", we are not talking about babies, what is being discussed are groups of a few cells that could potentially become a baby at some point but are far more likely to be discarded or indefinitely frozen. As of 2006 there were over 500,000 frozen embryos in this country, and the number is still growing. Some are implanted into the donors at a later date, some are donated to other couples, but most remain frozen, and some are simply thawed.

I understand being against the creation of embryos for stemcell research, but once we have them (which we do from ivf) if nobody is willing to carry them to term then I think using them to save lives, rather then just thawing them or leaving them in storage indefinitely has some merit.



RE: No breakthroughs.
By Lerianis on 12/6/2009 11:51:23 AM , Rating: 2
You got the difference on these things exactly. I don't have a problem with using these things for 'stem cell research' because most of them would just be destroyed anyway!

Why not use them for the 'good of mankind' if they are going to be thrown in the trash/incinerator later on anyway if they aren't used for this research? No real 'negative' reason.


"Vista runs on Atom ... It's just no one uses it". -- Intel CEO Paul Otellini














botimage
Copyright 2012 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki