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OS X Lion "Versions"  (Source: Apple via 9 to 5 Mac)

Remote multi-login in OS X Lion  (Source: 9 to 5 Mac)

FaceTime HD  (Source: Apple via 9 to 5 Mac)
Apple looks to be attempting a major direction shift with OS X Lion

Apple's latest operating system effort, OS X 10.7 "Lion", was recently released in preview form to developers.  The operating system looks to be a major departure from past versions of OS X in several ways.  Most notably the entire OS is shifting to iOS' (iPad, iPhone) model of an experience built around an app store.  Even the applications launcher has become "more iOS-like".

Now some of the other new features -- finer details, so to speak, have begun to be discovered by the Mac enthusiast community.

I. New Features Galore

A major news item is the fate of OS X Lion Server has been spelled out.  Like Windows, Apple releases a server edition accompanying nearly every major release.  While there aren't a ton of Apple server customers, for those out there, they will be excited to know that Lion Server is built into the base OS X 10.7 Lion distribution and is entirely free.  This might tempt Mac enthusiasts to try to set up their own backup storage servers.

Apple describes:

Lion Server guides you through configuring your Mac as a server. And it provides local and remote administration — for users and groups, push notifications, file sharing, calendaring, mail, contacts, chat, Time Machine, VPN, web, and wiki services — all in one place. 

Apple has also dropped the PowerPC software support that is available in Snow Leopard via Rosetta.  The move is calculated plot to force users away from PowerPC entirely.

Another useful feature on the firmware level is the inclusion of "TRIM".  This feature only applies to users of solid-state drives.  Basically, it's an improvement to the SSD firmware that revamps garbage collection to prevent write speed degradation on blocks you previously wrote to.  The net result should be a bit snappier SSD performance over time.  Windows users can enjoy a snicker here as TRIM has long been supported in Windows.

Yet another relatively "big" improvement is to the popular "Time Machine" feature, which is somewhat akin to Windows Restore.  Previously the feature required an external hard drive to take recovery snapshots.  Now you can enable the feature to use your internal drive.  In this mode snapshots are taken nearly every hour.

The new feature goes hand in hand with "Versions" which acts something like an automatic skinned SVN client, saving copies of a document every time you make a change to it and displaying them, if you wish to revert a file to a previous point.

Another new feature is "Air Drop"; a little app that allows you to transfer files over wireless networks by a simple drag and drop interface.  It actually looks pretty slick -- you can auto-locate nearby users with Air Drop enabled.  Of course it also seems like a bit of a security risk.

Apple has added the ability for multiple users to be remotely logged in to a machine at once.  Previously if another account was logged into your remote OS X machine you could only enjoy a movie of what they were doing.  Now you can do that or log in in parallel via your account.

FaceTime HD also comes loaded in the developer build.  Essentially Apple's take on a Skype/chat service, the app features full 720p mode.  It isn't free; Apple will be charge exactly $1 in what is likely less a bid for direct revenue and more of a bid to get customers entered into the new Mac App Store system (if they haven't been already).

Another new app is Podcast Producer that was previously only available to "pro" paying server users.  The app is similar in nature to Garage Band and its ilk, allowing you to quickly and (relatively) easily create podcasts.

IChat has added support for Yahoo IM accounts.  And the client now offers hover-over previews for your convenience.  Another minor tweak is the inclusion of hover-over-to-play in iTunes’ album art screensaver mode.

Another handy new feature is "Signature Capture" a little app that lets you to write a signature (on paper) and then hold it up to the system's web cam.  A shot is then capture and interpreted into a filtered image file.  That image can be added to make your PDFs, etc. all official.

The latest version of the email client, Mail 5 has been revamped and looks much more iOS-like.  Support for Exchange 2010 is built in.

The new build also offers clues in its file system that points to a "Find My Mac" feature, similar to "Find My iPhone", being included in the final version of Lion.  This feature is not currently included, but the telltale signs are there.

In the mystery department, Front Row, Apple's media center, has disappeared from Developer builds, leading to speculation that Apple is working on a replacement product, possibly built-into iTunes.

Another minor change that has some OS X fans spooked is the change in the default settings of the scroll [video].  9 to 5 Mac describes the shift as leading to "a very difficult transition".  This again seems to get back to Apple's desire to make the OS more iOS-like.  Scrolling up moves the page up (moves your position down the page), just like it would on a smart phone or tablet.  Fortunately for those unwilling to change their ways, Apple has built in an option to revert this setting to Snow Leopards default (scrolling down to move position down/move the page up).

II. Downloading and Installing the Preview -- Requirements and More

After Apples announcement of the developer preview was made last week, the logistics of its distribution slowly trickled out.  It would be delivered via the Mac App Store with a redeemable code sent to developers.  For those who aren't OS X developers and aren't sure quite what an OS X "developer" is, it's a simple $99 once-yearly subscription fee that gives you access to previews and other goodies.  

Unsurprisingly, not everyone wanted to pay that fee and it took little time for the OS to hit torrents. (Beware, developers, the OS reports back to Apple at swcan.apple.com -- unless you block that domain you risk discovery and possibly getting booted from Apple's developer efforts.)

Speaking of crackdowns, Apple also has begun to issue copyright notices to try to take down OS X Lion videos on YouTube.  Though it may be a futile effort, Apple sure is trying.  Posting videos is a violation of your developer contract, so beware the wrath of Steve Jobs and company.

The OS has plenty of requirements/installation notes.  Among the highlights are:
- You must have a Core 2 Duo or better
- Installing to a software Raid configuration is not currently available and may render your volume unusable (wow, at least they warn you!)
- Lion Server (if you plan on installing it) must be installed on an empty disk
- You cannot be running an iMac (circa 2006 -- iMac support will likely be added for the final release)
- You must disable FileVault in Snow Leopard before upgrading to Lion.  Lion has replaced this feature with a new version of encryption software.
- Your volumes will not be readable by past versions of OS X
- If you plan on using Boot Camp, you need version 3.2 or later.

Primary Source: [source]

III.  Summary

To officially get Mac OS X Lion:
1.  Go here to sign up for a $99 Mac Developer account.
2.  Grab your redeem code for OS X Lion.
3.  Download it off the Mac App Store.

The new features in Lion, currently known or coming soon are:
+ Built in Lion Server support
+ TRIM SSD support
+ Launch Pad (app launcher)
+ Mission Control (app preview)
+ Remote multi-login
+ Versions, and local-disk Time Machine
+ Air Drop
+ FaceTime HD
+ Podcast Producer
+ Signature Capture
+ Front Row replacement
+ "Find My Mac" and dropbox storage -- coming soon in MobileMe
+ Yahoo Chat support
+ Revamped email client
+ Revised encryption (full disk XTS-AES 128, wow)

Notable missing features are:
+ Front Row (likely to be replaced)
+ PowerPC software support (will not be added)

While Windows users enjoy many a joke about Apple's frequent OS updates this release appears a bit bigger than Apple's average fare.  If nothing else it represents a major paradigm shift for Apple, moving away from a "traditional" PC operating system and trying to capture a bit of the app-driven fire from iOS.



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IF...
By MrBlastman on 2/28/2011 12:47:03 PM , Rating: 4
Apple would take the back end, the command-line BSD-based part of the OS, removed all the proprietary Apple structures and other crap and then merged it with the Windows front-end (either XP or 7), then, finally, Apple might have some big news that I care about.

As for now, my wife has a Macbook, I have a PC that dual-boots to XP and 7 and I quite honestly gag everytime I have to use her Macbook. I hate the GUI on it, it is terrible. If Apple didn't waste so much time trying to dumb things down in OS X, and instead, let people see intricacies like the real filesystem, it might be far more useful than it really is.




RE: IF...
By Taft12 on 2/28/11, Rating: 0
RE: IF...
By headbox on 3/1/11, Rating: 0
RE: IF...
By talozin on 2/28/2011 2:40:06 PM , Rating: 3
If Apple didn't waste so much time trying to dumb things down in OS X, and instead, let people see intricacies like the real filesystem, it might be far more useful than it really is.

I must be missing something, because as far as I can tell, if you want to revel in the intricacies of "the real filesystem, all you have to do is open Terminal and type "ls -l".


RE: IF...
By MrBlastman on 2/28/2011 2:54:05 PM , Rating: 4
No, on Windows I don't even have to do that. In OS X, I do (ls -lt, ls -lat or ls -latR | more to be exact and sometimes, append a grep statement to it).

Now, I'm a UNIX guy, I don't mind that at all, but, when in order to use the OS in a useful manner with 3rd party programs, I _have_ to do that, that's unacceptable. OS X at times makes me do that and that makes it asinine.

When all is said and done, at least, if you were comparing XP to OS X (not 7), X and XP were about equal with tradeoffs. With Windows 7 being here, there's no contest anymore (Sure, 7 isn't even perfect in my book and for some things I prefer the XP GUI but whatever, that's a personal preference).


RE: IF...
By talozin on 2/28/2011 3:19:12 PM , Rating: 1
Oh, you mean the insistence of X on opening all your folders in "Large Icon" view rather than "List" view? Yeah, that's annoying. People have been bitching about that for like a decade, and they still haven't fixed it.

I think Apple wants us to use Column View instead, but Column View completely fails in doing what List View does, i.e., display useful information about all the files you're looking at.


RE: IF...
By hiscross on 3/1/2011 7:19:11 PM , Rating: 1
Thanks for NIX tips


Lion Thumbnail
By GeekWithFire on 2/28/2011 4:36:29 PM , Rating: 4
Can't tell from the thumbnail if that lion is yelling or yawning. I guess it depends on what fanboy camp you are coming from.




Windows > Lion
By StraightCashHomey on 2/28/11, Rating: 0
RE: Windows > Lion
By Chocobollz on 3/1/2011 10:27:13 AM , Rating: 2
Well, you can always close your "Windows" if there are "Lions" outside. Then you wouldn't hear their noisy voice :p


All Hail...Linux!
By Setsunayaki on 3/4/2011 1:10:59 AM , Rating: 1
I remember when I tested OS X, Windows 7 and Several Linux builds.

The aim was a "work" system for a computer illiterate. This person was family and was skeptical at first. When we tried OS X to look for "Drivers" we spent 30 minutes to 60 minutes looking for all drivers...like special printer drivers and scanners.

It was just as bad on Windows...Having to look for programs and software since Windows is almost Empty on Software when installed.

When Linux was tried, being able to use a Word Processor that recognizes most file formats right off the bad impressed him. The OS picked up and Installed right away FOUR printers (different brands) and Two Scanners, and even a Camera Scanner (One that scans Photo Negatives into a computer)..

There was also enough programs out of the box to create the system and even an interface that linked directly a lot of networking sites from the panel...

We spent around 30 minutes also, looking for some program replacements...At the end of the day, thanks to WINE all of his Windows Programs worked on Linux.

Like me, he has access to all three major operating system camps and the one funny thing is...at the end of the day, we all return to Linux...

Its amazing, when I walk around college campuses and I tell people I paid $0 for my linux setup and for work is more reliable than even Apple or Windows....a lot of people think I am lying or make something up..

They then try it and with the exception of two people who I knew who used Macs for very specific reasons (final cut pro, garage band), most of them switched to Linux (along with Wine) for their program needs, and many who tell me they like Apple say "I like Apple Programs, but I find the windows interface a lot easier"

To each their own.

I personaly like the fact that on my laptop, I've ran Linux for seven years now and have not spent a dime on anything and it has been reliable. ^_^

Of course, Linux means you go through many builds and OSes, so its an adventure through OS bootcamp. Once you "graduate" from OS Boot Camp you never see the world the same way as before...

Slackware was my favorite for a very long time...^_^ Well Good Luck to you all. ^^




News?
By Conner on 2/28/11, Rating: -1
RE: News?
By quiksilvr on 2/28/2011 12:29:39 PM , Rating: 4
1) As Anand points out, this is due to that particular SSD's resilience, not the OS. That is a very unique Toshiba controller and they (Toshiba) did one hellova good job making it.
2) Didn't they already drop PowerPC support with snow Leopard two years ago?
3) Not knowledgeable enough on the subject enough to comment.
4) Okay cool (again, not really a debate, video chat has little to do with Mac vs. Windows)


RE: News?
By BZDTemp on 2/28/2011 6:46:24 PM , Rating: 2
2) Yes and no. Snow Leopard won't run on a PowerPC machine but it will emulate a PowerPC CPU for the programs that need it.


RE: News?
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 12:42:08 PM , Rating: 3
1)First of all, you are completely wrong on this one, and perhaps you should read more than the first paragraph of an article before posting it as proof. "The resulting performance drop was noticeable, but not unbearable" -From the article linked, discussing random write torture tests. (i.e what TRIM would mitigate). All current OS's are designed to work with conventional hard drives and ALL of them have the same deficiencies when it comes to random writes/read performance over time. Apple clearly did some work with the firmware, as they have tried to mitigate the issue, that said, they also have seem to have done this at the expense of performance. My 2 year old SSD whipes the floor in random Read/Write performance. Considering Apple was on the forefront of using SSD's (especially in the AIR), they had little excuse to not add TRIM until now.

2)Yada Yada Yada.. More proof that OSX has all but ditched anything but the consumer market. (which is not a bad idea, but certainly pretty much cements the platform as not being usable in the business space)

3)Yet another way to share files on a Mac.. which can only be used Mac to Mac.. Basically just homegroups for OSX.. Though I do agree, I don't really see it as any more of a security hazard.

4)I don't see where you are going with this one.. Are you trying to play it out as though getting customers ready to pay for stuff as a good thing?? FaceTime was free, why should anyone be excited that they are now going to have to pay for it, and this is what users should expect in the future?


RE: News?
By amanojaku on 2/28/2011 1:28:22 PM , Rating: 2
@quiksilvr
The Mac OS dropped PPC hardware support with Snow Leopard. The PPC software library was still supported via Rosetta so that you wouldn't have to dump your existing PPC applications when you got an Intel Mac. Rosetta did have its limitations, however.

@omnicronx
For once I agree with Apple: there's no point in supporting a dead platform. Unlike Windows, Apple has a small application set. The Mac world will be just fine without PPC applications. Intel Macs have been available since 2005; if you were a PPC Mac developer or consumer and hadn't switched to an Intel Mac... that's probably because you're on Linux or Windows. I do agree that Apple is clearly not a vendor for businesses; the lack of server hardware and software speaks volumes about its customer base.


RE: News?
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 1:39:56 PM , Rating: 2
I already stated its a good idea from a consumer space perspective. The vast majority of users won't be impacted, and most users don't even have a PPC based mac anymore.

My point was more or less their commitment to backwards compatibility, which is a must in the business space. Nobody is going to poor money into in house software development if they continue on this path, and essentially cement themselves as only being consumer based devices. (which as I stated is not a terrible idea they are making money just fine without the business space, it just further pushes them into a specific niche which could limit growth.)


RE: News?
By quiksilvr on 2/28/2011 2:38:34 PM , Rating: 2
To be fair though, it's probably a good idea to migrate away from 5+ year old tech. I still see computers in university labs running Pentium IV processors. I'm all for backward compatibility and breathing new life into old machines, but you reach a point when you have to say it's time for an upgrade.

I tried (god have I tried) to justify keeping my old zd8000 from May 2005. I have used it my entire undergraduate career and a year and a half after. Upgrading the RAM to 2GB and upgrading to Windows 7 really made a phenomenal difference, but the simple fact remained: The CPU was terrible, the GPU, though good, was showing its age and the damn thing had an 180W power adapter (on a laptop!)

I think the magic number is around 5-6 years. I commend Windows 7 for making me not search for random drivers for my old laptop, but perhaps cutting things off can help us move forward technologically.


RE: News?
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 2:45:51 PM , Rating: 3
Pretty much everyone in the business space would disagree.

5-6 years is more than enough for the consumer space, certainly not enough in the business space.

Software can take years to develop, the idea that it should be thrown away after a few years is absurd.

PPC can clearly be deprecated, its hardly used in the consumer space let alone the business space and is will certainly make it easier to advance the platform. That said, its still a clear sign of Apples plans. They've all but dropped server support and added it back to client machines. They are clearly abandoning the business space (at least the traditional client server desktop model, who knows where the plan to take the iPad), which was all I was trying to point out.


RE: News?
By Chocobollz on 3/1/2011 10:36:19 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
keeping my old zd8000 from May 2005

What is a zd8000? Zed Duo 8000? Zdell 8000? Be more specific please :p

At first I thought you're saying about Zilog Z80 (it does bear a lil resemblance right? :D) but then you say something about 2 GB RAM and Win 7 and I'm thinking, "Oh hell no! It can be! A zilog could run Win 7!? WTF????" And I'm not joking LOL


RE: News?
By MeesterNid on 2/28/2011 1:45:26 PM , Rating: 2
Though I agree that Apple is not a business vendor that's in a traditional sense. Honestly with the proliferation of cloud computing and virtualization a hardware vendor becomes less relevant and services provided become more important. The same can be said on the client-side with thin-client and mobile devices.

Granted the "business" world is not the bleeding edge and does not adopt new technologies/paradigms overnight, but the momentum does finally catch up.

I think in the end it doesn't matter who the manufacturer is, but rather who can provide the most reliability and processing power at the best price.


RE: News?
By PrezWeezy on 3/1/2011 3:34:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
at the best price


That precludes Apple right there. They are not about price, they are about perception.


RE: News?
By nikon133 on 2/28/2011 4:10:49 PM , Rating: 3
Because Apple users love giving their money to Steve Jobs. All they need is some sort of excuse. Anything will do. ;)


RE: News?
By KoolAidMan1 on 2/28/2011 5:42:44 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Considering Apple was on the forefront of using SSD's (especially in the AIR), they had little excuse to not add TRIM until now.


The answer is actually very simple: Snow Leopard is old.

Blame it on bad timing of OS releases. Snow Leopard came out before Windows 7, which was the first Microsoft OS with TRIM. Same with Linux distros that currently support it.

Either way, they mitigated speed issues by using drives with aggressive garbage collection. The downside to that is potentially shortened lifespan, so TRIM finally showing up in OS X is obviously a good thing.


RE: News?
By name99 on 2/28/2011 2:40:31 PM , Rating: 3
So much ignorance here, in the comments and the post.

- What is being dropped is NOT PPC code in the OS. It is support for PPC emulation.This is likely not especially hard to maintain one way or another, but Apple does not like to keep dragging on support for obsolete hw/sw way past its end of life. The main consequence for most people is that they will find they have maybe one app on their machine that they didn't even realize was PPC, and which they will have to update or replace.

Apple being Apple, I imagine that in the final release the installer will, before installing, scan the connected drives, tell you if you have any PPC-only apps, and warn that you should get them updated before you continue with the install.

You may or may not like this attitude, but that's the way Apple has always done things. Yes it's different from MS' theory that some app written for DOS 1.0 should still run today --- we're all well aware of that.

- The Core2 Duo requirement most likely means support for 32-bit x86 is on its way out. The OS will no longer install on 32-bit Intel machines, and will doubtless include no 32-bit code in it --- which will allow Apple to once again shrink the OS footprint, to everyone's advantage. Of course 32-bit apps will still run (though perhaps not 32-bit drivers and plugins --- Apple served notice, with Snow Leopard that people shipping those should get their act together and move to 64-bit).

- Saying that certain functionality is like certain Windows functionality is less than helpful, especially when done in a snide manner. What matters with most of these issues is how well a feature is implemented, the subtle details. The difference between Air Drop and Window Bing Live Mesh 7 Pro, for example is not just that it has a name that everyone understands, that makes sense, and that will not be changed in six months as part of some incomprehensible new marketing plan. It will undoubtedly do one thing, do that well, and be simple enough that people use it. It will emulate DropBox (and thus be successful) and not DropBox's many competitors (all of which do 10x more things, none of which are successful).
Likewise for Time Machine, which is the first backup scheme with truly mass adoption, primarily because it IS so simple (and thus not "full-featured").

Given that none of us know the details of these features will be implemented, firing up the snide machine is more than a little silly.


RE: News?
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 3:07:26 PM , Rating: 2
Didnt realize they were dropping Rosetta support, nice catch there.

Though I'm not too sure about dropping 32 bit, as I don't see that happening yet. Far too little driver support (especially 3rd party uses such as printers) to do so right now.. Not too mention native apps such as iTunes that have no current 64 bit plans and require massive rewrites. Though I do agree they are definitely going to push it sooner rather than later. This does not really impact anyone, as PPC support was already dropped. Its only the few using the early Intel dual core Mac's that will be impacted.

As for AirDrop, its not an online service. Its no different than any file sharing method except for the fact its Mac to Mac, and the user needs to accept the incoming file. (Native windows file sharing is very similar minus the password, though as we all know you can have public shares and private shares). In my opinion this is just confusing, there are far too many ways to share files in OSX, simply tacking on more 'features' does not make things easier, it just makes it more convoluted as to what you are suppose to use in what situation. They need to revamp file sharing general, put it all in once place, and make it easy to use.

Lastly I find it kind of funny that you think the masses use time machine.. I've never met a non power user that makes use of it. Constantly backing up locally (which is what they added) is hardly enticing to me either, as if the HD fails you are SOL anyways (which I find is far more likely on the Mac environment than the OS itself crashing). I find it easier to just make a full disk image every now and then using the built in disk utils.


Welcome to 2007 Apple
By BioHazardous on 2/28/11, Rating: -1
RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 2/28/11, Rating: -1
RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By damianrobertjones on 2/28/2011 2:03:42 PM , Rating: 2
RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 2/28/2011 2:13:15 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, exactly what I mean - Windows enabled multiuser login without suspicious non-MS approved hacks. Can't wait for the moment when Ballmey implements this at last.

Not sure about your FTP comment, what do you mean? All BSD derived OSes have built in FTP client, you have any problem with this stuff or what?


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Samus on 2/28/2011 4:50:44 PM , Rating: 5
Is it me or did OSX just get a bunch of Windows Vista-era features?


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 2/28/11, Rating: 0
RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Etsp on 2/28/2011 6:27:37 PM , Rating: 3
You seem to be inferring that this is a limitation of Microsoft's software. It's not. Server 2003 and 2008 support it just fine. It's an intentional limitation they added because of their licensing structure.

If more than one person is using the resources of a single computer at the same time on a regular basis (More often than not), that is not a PC. It's a server, and should be licensed as one, and have an OS designed for that sort of thing.

Linux does it on their desktop OS's because Linux is a multi-user OS and has been from the beginning. They don't sell the software, so they don't care how many people are using a single system.

Apple hasn't allowed it because they want to sell more hardware.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 2/28/2011 9:09:45 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not quite sure why a regular consumer would need concurrent login sessions anyway. They might implement it, but I can't see why. I think even Mac users kinda went "meh" when they read about that feature.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 3/1/11, Rating: 0
RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 3/1/2011 4:32:28 PM , Rating: 2
They might for now, but after having an SSD for 5 years I'm sure they'll be glad for having it even if they don't really know what it does.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 3/2/2011 12:28:06 AM , Rating: 2
Same could be said about multiple simultaneous remote desktop logins into the same machine. I'm sure they'll be glad for having it even if they don't really know what it does.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 3/2/2011 2:42:22 AM , Rating: 2
That kind of logic doesn't apply here. You'd pretty much have to know what it does in order for you to use it. It's not something that is always in effect behind the scenes like TRIM.

For some reason your logic and reading comprehension fall apart when you try to argue with me. Not sure why though.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By damianrobertjones on 2/28/2011 2:04:22 PM , Rating: 2
P.s. I'm waiting to resize a damn window in OSX from any of the four corners.. at least


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By damianrobertjones on 2/28/2011 2:04:50 PM , Rating: 2
P.P.P.s Does OSX include native FTP access yet? Not sure on that one though


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By talozin on 2/28/2011 2:46:49 PM , Rating: 1
Does OSX include native FTP access yet?

Why in the world would you even want FTP? That's like asking if Windows 7 supports telnet.

Or did you mean SFTP? Which is included (inbound and outbound, though you probably have to turn inbound on).


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 3:27:40 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Why in the world would you even want FTP? That's like asking if Windows 7 supports telnet.
Windows 7 does support telnet server/client natively..


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 2:28:16 PM , Rating: 5
I find it hilarious you use the word 'rip off', as though every single other OS including Windows and BSD/UNIX variants have not had concurrent logins for YEARS.

Its specifically disabled in Windows clients, mainly because most 99.99% of users don't need it. Most of the time you don't need multiple clients using one machine at the same time (hence it being a client). Furthermore, most of the time I have little use for a concurrent login, as its used alot for logging in to the current session remotely to troubleshoot.

Most of the time if concurrent sessions are needed, its on a shared server, running a server version of Windows.

The 'unofficial shady' patch you mention is merely taken from the server implementation to allow for concurrent logins. So for those that really care, a patch is easily found with a simple google search.

To make it out as though Apple is not playing catchup to EVERYONE here is laughable at best... (considering is BSD roots, I can't believe its taken this long)

The only thing I will give you is that concurrent sessions are clearly disabled in client versions of windows so that you don't use them as server machines. I don't necessarily condone it, but its not the end of the world, nor should you be using a client OS for a server in the first place.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 2:31:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
P.S. and Ballmey while you're at it please rip off another thing - that one where you scan your signature with webcamera, I looove it. Please Ballmey be fast, copy quick quick quick, time runs!
And huh? Does Apple even do this?

Anywho, there have been windows applications to do this for years..


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 2/28/2011 3:20:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Does Apple even do this?
http://www.9to5mac.com/54071/lions-signature-captu...
quote:
should you be using a client OS for a server in the first place
I'm doing it every day when using one of my Windows machines as my home file server, music server, video server, and I together with gazillions of other home users laugh at ya right now


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 3:35:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
http://www.9to5mac.com/54071/lions-signature-captu...
So its new to lion, i.e its nothing Apple thought of, but lifted it from somewhere else as there are already programs to do the same thing.. So how exactly would MS be copying Apple again? Apple does something natively and suddenly its their idea?
quote:
I'm doing it every day when using one of my Windows machines as my home file server, music server, video server, and I together with gazillions of other home users laugh at ya right now
So why exactly do you need concurrent logins? Why are you letting others have system wide access to your home PC? And why exactly can't you use the patch that is easily found on Google? And please for the love of god, how is anyone copying Apple when you can do this in every OS currently? (with support for the same user with multiple instances, which it does not look like this will support)


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 2/28/2011 3:55:26 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So how exactly would MS be copying Apple again?
By including this in Windows
quote:
why exactly do you need concurrent logins?
In order to be able to work on my desktop remotely if someone from my family happens to use it at the time
quote:
Why are you letting others have system wide access to your home PC?
If "others" means my family then why not?
quote:
And why exactly can't you use the patch that is easily found on Google?
Why would people prefer to eat something in a nice restaurant instead of spending time cooking some hasty dish from frozen chicken and raw vegetables? Why would people prefer to buy cars instead of assembling their own from parts?
quote:
how is anyone copying Apple when you can do this in every OS currently?
Can't do this in stock Windows client currently :P


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 4:27:24 PM , Rating: 2
Very good reasons, and personally I have the same issues. Which is why I patch my machine.. Would it be nice to be there natively, sure, but it also means more resource requirements and more support for the tiny percentage of users that make use of it. Its also a blatant security concern.

But once again how is this copying Apple which is clearly the point you first made. Its in every UNIX/BSD based OS, and it is in Windows its just disabled. Clearly Apple is playing catch up to something that every other OS supports, whether it be in server versions or not.

Furthermore you need not worry, the way Windows 8 is heading with its cloud based formula, I think its safe to say that concurrent remote access will not be a problem.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 2/28/2011 5:12:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
how is this copying Apple
Apple enables it in OS X then MS enables it too in Windows you know...
quote:
the way Windows 8 is heading
Let's hope it's not heading the WinFS way


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By omnicronx on 2/28/2011 5:59:59 PM , Rating: 2
You are clearly missing the point Pirks, if in some remote planet turning on a feature would be considered copying, then they would be copying those that did it first (i.e most unix based platforms or their very own server OS) not OSX.

Trying to claim otherwise is as productive as beating a dead horse.

You came in trying to claim that 'MS was once again going to steal from OSX', when none of your points hold true.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 2/28/2011 9:21:41 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
In order to be able to work on my desktop remotely if someone from my family happens to use it at the time


Ummm, shouldn't they have their own account? I'm not saying you can't have one account and literally have everyone use it, but wasn't that exactly something that Mac users bitched about in XP? One admin account that everyone in a family used.

I might be the only one who is supposed to use my computer, but if someone was on my account while I wasn't there I'd rather hijack the damn thing then let them use it. That's my opinion though.

quote:
Why would people prefer to eat something in a nice restaurant instead of spending time cooking some hasty dish from frozen chicken and raw vegetables? Why would people prefer to buy cars instead of assembling their own from parts?
quote:


Umm what? A far better analogy would have been: Why go out to a nice restaurant and eat when we could have them deliver it to us? By your analogy it seems like we'd have to make our own patch which doesn't make any sense at all.

quote:
Can't do this in stock Windows client currently :P
That's ok, basically no one needs it and I'd rather have something like TRIM support anyway. Why the hell is Apple copying MS on that feature? :D


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 2/28/2011 9:23:48 PM , Rating: 2
Oops, missed a slash in closing one of those quotes. Should still be able to follow though.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 2/28/2011 11:26:49 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, right, try to remote desktop into your own account on a PC when somebody else there is using some other account. When you try it - come back, we'll talk again. Have nothing to say until you experience this, hehe :P


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 3/1/2011 3:39:25 AM , Rating: 2
I never argued that that wouldn't happen. You really do need to brush up on reading comprehension man. I said it shouldn't be a problem because you'd basically never need to do that with a properly set up home PC. Is a PC usually properly set up? Probably not but that doesn't make what I said any less true.

Though, since you don't hear anyone clamoring for this feature I'm gonna say that while it's nice to have almost no one is going to notice if it's not there.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 3/1/2011 10:42:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
you don't hear anyone clamoring for this feature
Well, you don't hear anyone clamoring for TRIM too, so what? You you don't need something doesn't mean I won't need it too.
quote:
you'd basically never need to do that with a properly set up home PC
Oh really? So if I set up my PC "properly" and someone from my family is using another account while I want to login under my account there at the same time and stupid Windows is kicking me out while OS X 10.7 has no problem with that - is that because my PC is set up "improperly"? Or is it because you smocked too much crack recently? Your comments about "improper" setup of my PC just don't make any sense AT ALL.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 3/2/2011 2:46:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Oh really? So if I set up my PC "properly" and someone from my family is using another account while I want to login under my account there at the same time and stupid Windows is kicking me out while OS X 10.7 has no problem with that - is that because my PC is set up "improperly"?

I'm under the impression that this is only supposed to happen when it's the same account. If this also happens when using different accounts then I'd have to say I agree with you. Though, I don't know why you'd want to use the resources on your home computer when you could just use the resources of the computer you're on, but that's hardly the point you're trying to make. Isn't most of the issue having access to the files in the first place?


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 3/2/2011 10:53:54 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm under the impression
"Impression" is the keyword here. Replace your "impression" with practical experience dealing with Remote Desktop under various conditions, including multiuser logins in various scenarios, and then we'll talk. I can't argue with a guy who tries to counter my practical experience with his "impressions". Come back when you have _practical experience_, Alex. There's nothing to discuss until then.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 3/2/2011 2:56:33 AM , Rating: 2
Oops, forgot the top part. True, no one is clamoring for it directly but surely you're not trying to argue that people don't want/ask for things that prevent slowdowns on their computer, are you? Because that would be incredibly naive.

BTW, not sure what you meant for that second sentence. I think you missed a word or two.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Chocobollz on 3/1/2011 10:51:50 AM , Rating: 2
Oh God. Pirks, why would you complain about something you hate so much? Why don't you try TeamViewer. It's free for non-commercial use, and its ssize is only 3.88 MB. It can even be put on a floppy disk for Christ sake! :p


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 3/1/2011 7:29:40 PM , Rating: 2
That's not the same by any definition. That's multi-user same session while this "feature" is multi-user multi-session. TeamViewer does not allow you to run a different session on the same account. You're sharing a session with whoever is on the computer at that time.


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Pirks on 2/28/2011 11:32:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
basically no one needs it
Yeah maybe this is true about TRIM huh? ;)


RE: Welcome to 2007 Apple
By Alexstarfire on 3/1/2011 3:41:13 AM , Rating: 2
Someone can't take/recognize a joke.


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