DailyTech - OLPC Reports Exaggerated

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Hardware OLPC Reports Exaggerated
Sven Olsen (Blog) - August 4, 2006 11:49 AM

25 comment(s) - last by masher2.. on Aug 7 at 12:59 PM

Jumping the gun on $100 notebooks, since 2006

ZDNet UK has a report claiming the OLPC reports announced earlier this week are incorrect at best. The reports are the ones claiming that three million OLPC orders were placed and that Nigeria has ordered one million OLPCs. Apparently the OLPC committee has expressed communication to these countries, but none have placed orders yet.

Furthermore, OLPC representatives have told ZDNet that there are no commercial revisions of the $100 laptop yet, and that the versions that do exist are solely for development purposes. Any talk of commercial sales is far too premature at this point.

"We have not signed any agreements for orders, but we are in communication with the countries mentioned. OLPC has asked that all interested parties wait to see a working machine before placing their orders," an OLPC spokesperson told ZDNet.

However, OLPC directors have not addressed the fact that India will not back the OLPC project, and it appears as though those reports are still correct.

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As posted in the "three million ordered

By MercenaryForHire on 8/4/2006 12:27:41 PM , Rating: 4

The countries in question are not undeveloped third-world areas, so can we please keep the "why not spend the $100 on food/water/medical supplies/etc" comments to a minimum?

- M4H

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By Homerboy on 8/4/2006 12:49:48 PM , Rating: 2

EXACTLY
I'm so sick of that argument.

Parent

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By TomZ on 8/4/2006 1:06:58 PM , Rating: 1

The stated goal of OLPCs is to provide educational opportunities. What if, instead of spending $100M on OLPCs, the government of one of these countries spent the money on building more schools, hiring more teachers, better equipping schools, etc.?

My point is, do you think in developing countries, they have already passed the point of diminishing marginal returns with respect to educational spending? I don't think so - I think they can still get a lot of bang for the buck by increasing spending in education.

If spending on additional "traditional" education investments is not considered effective/efficient, then we really need to look at how we educate our children around the world. My opinion is that existing systems are pretty good, though not perfect, and that more dollars spent in that way will yield a known, measurable positive impact, whereas the OLPC is an experiment at best, and a potentially a complete waste at worst.

Finally, you cannot summarily dismiss the notion of resources potentially being able to be better spent on food, water, medicine, etc. The countries being targeted for OLPC have significant portions of their people living well below poverty levels and not able to access sufficient healthcare (as is the case also in many developed nations). The fact of the matter is that dollars spent on OLPC could be spent in that way or on meeting the basic needs of more citizens.

Parent

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By lemonadesoda on 8/4/2006 2:50:33 PM , Rating: 2

Some very good points.

For all the OLPC fanboys, how about implementing that in YOUR local school? In fact, transform the whole educational system in your country.

In with OLPC. Out with classrooms. Save money on books, teachers, schools. Reduce taxes. Put money back in your pocket where it belongs.

Parent

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By Kuroyama on 8/4/2006 5:07:38 PM , Rating: 2

What if, instead of spending $100M on OLPCs, the government of one of these countries spent the money on building more schools, hiring more teachers, better equipping schools, etc.?

While that is something to consider, it is not very convincing. You may as well ask that about the US: "What if, instead of spending ???hundred million dollars per day in Iraq that money were spent on building more schools, hiring more teachers, better equipping schools, etc.?"

Personally I have often thought the US should shift the focus of High School and have separate "Academic" and "Trade" tracks, something like the Gymnasium system in Germany. Would the mechanic be better off learning Shakespeare in High School, or getting some hands-on experience? I'd suggest the skills are far more important.

For instance, a villager moving to a city and having no computer skills will find it very hard to get a job other than as a manual laborer. If he can read, write and type on a computer then that will probably instantly increase his/her income potential. Kids are also much more likely to pay attention to lessons on reading and writing if they have a computer in front of them, because somehow doing things on a computer seems to make it more interesting (I learned arithmetic by playing an old Atari game where you shoot down the sums like "5+6" by typing the total "11").

Whether the OLPC is appropriate is almost certainly a country by country question. Is it appropriate in the Congo? I highly doubt it, as there is almost no education to speak of. Nigeria? Perhaps in the cities, but not in the many extremely poor areas. In Brazil? A poster on an earlier article gave a good case for the OLPC in Brazil.

Parent

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By TomZ on 8/4/2006 5:41:49 PM , Rating: 3

First, thanks for your interesting insights. I'm not an expert in education, and I appreciate your views.

quote:
While that is something to consider, it is not very convincing. You may as well ask that about the US: "What if, instead of spending ???hundred million dollars per day in Iraq that money were spent on building more schools, hiring more teachers, better equipping schools, etc.?"

I agree. While I can appreciate and understand the perception that fixing the problems in Iraq will benefit us in the future, there are certainly a number of serious domestic problems that are not getting proper attention, e.g., post-Katrina New Orleans recovery, improving our education system, developing technology and industry to help reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, etc.

quote:
Personally I have often thought the US should shift the focus of High School and have separate "Academic" and "Trade" tracks, something like the Gymnasium system in Germany. Would the mechanic be better off learning Shakespeare in High School, or getting some hands-on experience? I'd suggest the skills are far more important.

I agree - I also like the German system. The only thing that concerns me about it is that I get the impression that it is a one-time opportunity, and if you don't perform well the first time through, you may end up going into the "wrong direction" toward lower-paying careers. Maybe I am wrong about this impression, however. I like the American system where, if you are motivated, you can always go back and seek more education (on your own dime) to try to better yourself and make yourself more valuable, at any age. By that, I mean go back and get a G.E.D. if you didn't finish high school, go to college at any age, etc. Maybe the same is possible in Germany as well.

Parent

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By Kuroyama on 8/4/2006 6:12:00 PM , Rating: 2

I get the impression that it is a one-time opportunity, and if you don't perform well the first time through, you may end up going into the "wrong direction" toward lower-paying careers.

I'm not sure the American system is much different. Yes, there is the GED option, and Community colleges, but I think very few people avail themselves of this option. For instance, my sister took her GEDs and was told she had the highest scores the test giver had ever seen, and yet she ended up quitting the Community college after only one semester. People who don't finish High School often have a lot of other issues that prevent them from getting a good education at a later date.

Parent

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By lemonadesoda on 8/4/2006 6:47:55 PM , Rating: 2

CAREFUL: There are very big issues with the German education system. It has been recently criticised and is poorly ranked compared to other countries. The notion of their vocational excellence model is outdated.

Here are some issues for you to think about:

1./ Formal Education starts at 7
2./ At 12 the kids are streamlined into one of 3 school systems (after only 5 years of learning!). Once you are in one system, you are pretty much stuck
3./ School starts at 0800am. But stops at 1300 or 1330 depending on the school! Just 5 hours of lessons!
4./ The pedagogical approach is ranked very poorly compared to other countries (see recent news items)
5./ It has been ranked as "average" or "below average", buy OECD

For interested readers, a good starting point is http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/1/63/34002454.pd...

Parent

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By TomZ on 8/4/2006 9:56:25 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
CAREFUL: There are very big issues with the German education system. It has been recently criticised and is poorly ranked compared to other countries. The notion of their vocational excellence model is outdated.

This was kind of my impression after talking with a German colleage who is a parent, a while back. He ended up putting his kids in private schools there, and while he talked up the German educational system, I could see how it seems to "bin" kids early on and put them onto certain tracks. I was kind of thinking this was kind of old-world thinking. We kind of have that a little in the US, but it is not as explicity as in Germany, I would say.

Parent

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By Kuroyama on 8/4/2006 10:40:16 PM , Rating: 2

Here are some issues for you to think about:

My reference was only to the concept of a vocational model, and not to details of how it is implemented in Germany, and so items 1,2,4,5(?) are not relevant. Item 2 (choosing your future after 5 years of school) is certainly problematic. The fact the school day ends so early, plus the inconvenient store hours, have been cited as big impediments for mothers wanting a career too.

As for Germans sending their kids to private schools, almost all the faculty I knew when I taught at a university in Atlanta sent their kids to private school once they reached Junior High. At my new university in Boston things are not quite as bad, but still a very high percent of faculty send kids to private school. It does not exactly lead one to believe in the success of our current system of education when even the public school teachers (actually, public university professors) send their kids to private school.

Parent

RE: As posted in the "three million ordered

By masher2

(blog) on 8/7/2006 12:59:00 PM , Rating: 3

> "Personally I have often thought the US should shift the focus of High School and have separate "Academic" and "Trade" tracks...Would the mechanic be better off learning Shakespeare in High School"

So you want to condemn a child to be a mechanic or truck driver at age 13, simply because he (or worse, his parents) made a poor choice at that age?

Worse still is the idea that a good working knowledge of math, science, and the humanities is somehow "wasted" on those people who don't attend college. All citizens in this nation can vote, therefore all should be educated enough to make a semi-informed decision when they do so.

Parent

not surprised

By kattanna on 8/4/2006 12:36:49 PM , Rating: 2

i was highly doubtfull of all the claims since they were claiming nigeria had ordered and paid in full for 1 million of them.

so this was nothing more then a bad PR stunt im sure.

RE: not surprised

By MercenaryForHire on 8/4/2006 12:44:36 PM , Rating: 2

Nigeria paid in full ... but for some reason, they sent a money order for $140,000,000 instead of the needed $100,000,000 - so we just wired them back the $40,000,000 through Western Union like they asked and shipped out the units yest- Hold on, my phone's ringing. Lemme check the caller ID. Hmm, my bank's calling. Wonder what this is all about?

- M4H

Parent

RE: not surprised

By Rollomite on 8/4/06, Rating: 0

RE: not surprised

By RMTimeKill on 8/4/2006 1:30:22 PM , Rating: 2

LOL! No doubt! I like the idea OLPC is trying to push, because it can also promote learning from all over the world. Blackboard servers are booming hosting classes online in US colleges, whats preventing them from donig the same thing for gradeschoolers+ in these countries? One person could teach millions, litteraly, if its all implemented correctly.

Parent

RE: not surprised

By TomZ on 8/4/2006 1:52:13 PM , Rating: 3

If this was truly effective, then you would see colleges and secondary schools also significantly increasing the student-to-teacher ratios, e.g., college courses with a thousands of students. I think that education doesn't scale up very well in this way because of the need for interactivity with the instructor which can't be effective if there are large numbers of students. In the end, technology can help a lot with education, but the best quality education will probably continue to be labor intensive into the future.

Parent

RE: not surprised

By lemonadesoda on 8/4/2006 2:45:56 PM , Rating: 2

Its more than just interactivity with the instructor. Primary and secondary school teachers, if good, know not only the acedemic topic, but also classroom-management. How to push a kid. Make them work. Make them behave. Make them achieve more than they would if they were left to their own devices.

Parent

RE: not surprised

By Kuroyama on 8/4/2006 5:31:32 PM , Rating: 2

I think that education doesn't scale up very well in this way because of the need for interactivity with the instructor which can't be effective if there are large numbers of students.

While there is something to be said for small class sizes, it is a misconception that class size has a statistically significant effect on what students learn. Classes in Japan typically have about 40 students, and yet almost no one questions whether Japanese students learn better science skills that American ones.

Almost every place I have seen quoting statistics for this have been blatantly misusing the statistics, and those cases I have seen with careful analysis have fairly weak conclusions one way or the other. Correlations to SAT scores tend to be particularly misused. For instance, counterintuitively, SAT scores in places with large classes tend to be much higher than in those with small classes. Why? Large classes are more common in places where fewer students take the SAT (due to less emphasis on education and due to ACT being more common in these places). So you are comparing an average student in Massachusetts to a top student in say Alabama.

Whether problems in critical thinking in Japan (for instance) are related to class size, or culture, is another question. However, I think culture is the bigger constraint both in determining how much students learn and how good their critical thinking skills are.

Going back to the OLPC discussion, the point is that I am not convinced that the class size vs. OLPC debate is necessarily valid.

Parent

RE: not surprised

By TomZ on 8/4/2006 9:58:06 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Going back to the OLPC discussion, the point is that I am not convinced that the class size vs. OLPC debate is necessarily valid.

I think you are right - it is not really the objective of OLPC to enable one million-to-one teacher to student ratios. I think the point of OLPC is to enable self-study in addition to the normal classroom learning experiences.

Parent

The Idea Is For Everyone To Learn the Same Thing

By Tuor on 8/4/2006 3:58:08 PM , Rating: 2

By unifying knowledge and beliefs, you make a population more homogeneous, and thus *easier to control*. You don't have to worry about people learning unapproved things (at least, not a lot of people).

After the military, Education is what concerns government the most, because if you can frame the way people think, you can dictate *what* they think and how they will act.

RE: The Idea Is For Everyone To Learn the Same Thing

By Kuroyama on 8/4/2006 5:19:11 PM , Rating: 2

Yes, Nazi control of German education was a great way to manipulate the people. But it is an idiotic conspiracy theory when applied in the generality you appear to suggest.

I suppose that teaching kids that "5+6=11" is a form of brainwashing? Perhaps teaching "proper grammar" is a way to crush Afro-American culture? And teaching Evolution in science class is brainwashing them against those who misinterpret the Bible as saying the earth is 6000 years old?

People who lack skill at critical thinking are the easiest to be controlled. Those who have a good education and good critical thinking skills should be the least easy to control. Likewise, education should teach us to be able to tell the difference between fact, well-informed opinion, speculative ideas, and fiction.

This includes some counterintuitive results, for instance I would argue that liberals who protest against conservative speakers at an Ivy League school don't trust their own education. Do Yale students think that students at their own school are incapable of judging the truth for themselves?

Parent

RE: The Idea Is For Everyone To Learn the Same Thing

By lemonadesoda on 8/4/2006 6:55:34 PM , Rating: 2

Although there was a comic element in the earlier post, there is also some harsh reality which you are missing:

1./ The education system is key to setting cultural norms
2./ Kids can be "brainwashed" as you call it, into being either "investigative-challengers" where critical thinking is encouraged, or "homogeneous compliants", where conforming to established rules and way-of-thinking is enforced
3./ What you teach the kids, and what you DONT teach the kids, has a huge impact on the future population
4./ The quality of teaching, and pedagogical approach, differenciates the best schools and universities from the worst

To suggest that the difference in educational systems is as simple as numeracy and grammar is, quite simply, naiive.

Parent

RE: The Idea Is For Everyone To Learn the Same Thing

By Kuroyama on 8/4/2006 7:09:03 PM , Rating: 2

Thank you for pointing out these details. I suppose I should say that in an ideal world education would lead to "investigative-challengers" where critical thinking is encouraged, and hence education would not be "pro-government". But you are correct to say that my argument is naive, because we do not live in an ideal world.

I suppose a better statement would have been that education can be used to encourage critical thinking, but that we need to be wary and watch out that government (or whoever) does not corrupt it.

Parent

As posted in the "three million ordered" thread

By MercenaryForHire on 8/4/2006 12:29:22 PM , Rating: 2

http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3599&comm...

quote:
This project is not targetted to starving people in a place where the education can't be achieved. This is targetted to semi-developed regions that have access to basic infrastructure (sometimes underdeveloped, but present) which would NEVER have access to computer education otherwise.

Apologies for the triple-posting - and note to self, in the future don't use quotation marks in your topic title since Enter makes it call the "Submit" portion of the form. :P

- M4H

As posted in the "three million ordered

By MercenaryForHire on 8/4/2006 12:27:40 PM , Rating: 1

The countries in question are not undeveloped third-world areas, so can we please keep the "why not spend the $100 on food/water/medical supplies/etc" comments to a minimum?

- M4H