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Nokia says it's trying to explain to Microsoft that its current app efforts aren't good enough

Windows Phone is growing, but it is doing so very slowly.  And while Nokia Oyj. (HEX:NOK1V) has captured most of those sales, spurring the Finnish phonemaker to a minor recovery, at least one executive at Nokia is taking Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) to task for not doing more to make the platform a success.

I. "You Can't Sell a Phone Without the Apps"

Comments Nokia VP Bryan Biniak:

People rely on applications for their day-to-day life and if you don't have something which I use in my day-to-day life I'm not going to switch [operating systems] because I don't want to compromise the way I live my life just to switch to a phone.  It's not just about the hardware, it's about the tools that are on the hardware. You can't sell a phone without the apps, you just can't.

But the Nokia VP gives Microsoft a bit of a pass in the International Business Times interview, acknowledging that Windows Phone is "not even Microsoft's second, third or fourth priority."

Nokia Bryan Biniak
Nokia VP Bryan Biniak [Image Source:]

He compares the slow start of Windows Phone to Microsoft Xbox run.  Today the Xbox is the top selling console on the market, but when it first came out, it badly trailed its veteran rivals and many sneered at the prospect of a Microsoft gaming console.

Ultimately, the one place where Microsoft support is falling short, Mr. Biniak indicates, is with apps.  He remarks:

We are releasing new devices frequently and for every new device, if there is an app that somebody cares about that's not there that's a missed opportunity of a sale.  We are trying to evolve the cultural thinking [at Microsoft] to say 'time is of the essence.' Waiting until the end of your fiscal year when you need to close your targets, doesn't do us any good when I have phones to sell today.

To give you a reason to switch, I need to make sure the apps that you care about on your device are not only on our phones, but are better. I also need to provide you unique experiences that you can't get on your other devices.

On the hardware end Nokia has arguably held up its end of the bargain.  In the past year it has released 10 new Lumia models.  And rather than simply releasing yet another 1080p, Snadragon 600-powered big-screen smartphone, Nokia went a unique route offering a phone with more modest hardware, but with the best camera of any smartphone in the business (the Lumia 1020).  Nokia was rewarded with Lumia sales of 7.4 million units.  That's up 85 percent over last year's sales of 4 million in Q2 2012, and marks the first time Lumia sales passed sales of Blackberry, Ltd. (TSE:BB).

Nokia Lumia 1020

While Nokia lost less money then expected (€227M, versus an analyst consensus of €258.8M), it fell substantially short on revenue and narrowly missed analyst expectations of 7.8 million Lumia units for the quarter.

Apple, Inc. (AAPL) (who sold 31.2m iPhones in the quarter) is outselling Nokia roughly 4-to-1, while Samsung Electronics Comp., Ltd. (KSC:005930) is outselling Nokia roughly 3-to-1 with its Galaxy line, or 10-to-1 with its overall "smartphone" line (which includes non-Android, low-end models).

II. Nokia Plans to Fix App Shortage, With or Without Microsoft

As Mr. Biniak says, one major value shortcoming when it comes to Windows Phone is a lack of apps.  While Windows Phone has a number of great apps in its catalogue of 165,000 high profile apps, some high profile hits from other platforms are still missing.  Google Inc.'s (GOOG) Android platform has over a million apps, while Apple's App Store has over 900,000 apps.  Windows Phone fans tend to dismiss this advantage, saying they'd rather have a better device than every app on the market, but even they must recognize that many buyers will simply refuse to make that choice and reject Windows Phone automatically as long as its app catalog remains anemic.

Windows Phone marketplace
Windows Phone's app selection still trails its rivals. [Image Source: WinSource]

Nokia isn't giving up on Microsoft and Windows Phone.  But it also isn't going to wait around for Microsoft to get serious about apps.  It's paying developers aggressively to port their most popular apps to Windows Phone.  Mr. Biniak, who helps lead developer outreach efforts, says:

[By the end of 2013] people will be hard-pressed to say '[Windows Phone] doesn't have this app' and it makes a material difference. I don't think there will be any [app developers] we don't have commercial agreements with, and so maybe it's not published by the end of the year but it will be published before the end of [March].

As a company we don't want to rely on somebody else and sit and wait for them to get it right.

That commitment will fix the issue of "select applications that need to be there", which aren't currently in the catalog, according to Mr. Biniak.  He just wishes his company's partner, Microsoft, was doing a bit more to help the cause, by the sound of it.

Source: International Business Times

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Its funny...
By inighthawki on 7/29/2013 11:14:28 AM , Rating: 2
Because the only thing keeping me from getting a windows phone is the extremely poor selection of cheap plasticy bulky phones offered b Nokia and htc. If Microsoft made a phone with the build quality of a surface, I'd probably buy one in a heartbeat.

RE: Its funny...
By GPig on 7/29/2013 12:21:08 PM , Rating: 2
The lumia 925 is cheap, plasticy and bulky? You should go check one out. Beautiful piece of hardware.

RE: Its funny...
By inighthawki on 7/29/2013 4:52:27 PM , Rating: 2
I have. I've played with all of the different WP8 nokia hardware. It all feels exactly as I described. It's made of plastic, so that isn't much of an argument, and I also consider plastic to be low quality, hence cheap (I'd much prefer aluminum or if Microsoft made a phone with the same magnesium casing of the surface), and compared to various android phones and the iphone, the nokias feel extremely large and bulky.

RE: Its funny...
By inighthawki on 7/29/2013 4:55:45 PM , Rating: 2
I apologize, when you said 925 I was thinking about the 920. I have not actually seen the 925 in person.

RE: Its funny...
By JPForums on 8/1/2013 1:51:53 PM , Rating: 2
I'd much prefer aluminum or ...the same magnesium casing of the surface
I'm guessing you don't much favor the Samsung Galaxy S3/S4 either, as they (like the Lumia 920) are built primarily of polycarbonate. I'd take the Lumia 920 build quality over them any day. Admittedly, the Nokia is on the large side (4.5" screen) and definitely bulkier (large battery), but that doesn't bother me so much as I already sacrifice those to get extended battery life with (5") Samsung phones.

Now, the HTC One has a build I could get behind. If they'd just use the same (or very similar) chassis for their next WP8 (HTC 8?), Nokia would have something to worry about. The HTC 8X already has a fairly slim profile. The aluminum chassis (along with their other niceties) would set HTC's offering in its own class as a premium Windows Phone.

Frankly, I've never much cared for Apple's form factor. The combination of smaller size, softer aluminum (less rigid than HTC One), and screen material they use gives them a fragile feel in my hands. Though to be fair, I have meaty hands. They are more resistant to minor scraps than I expected, but it's still pretty easy to crack the display. The Galaxy phones feel worse as they have more flex, but their larger size helps a little. The Nokia 900/920 feels more solid to me. They aren't any harder to scuff than the Galaxy phones, but they are pretty resilient to meaningful damage. The HTC One feels the best in my hands by far. Though, a little more bulk for, say, a larger battery would be even better. Doesn't have a scratch on it yet, so actual durability is currently an unknown.

Now, the magnesium used in the surface is a very interesting prospect. I wouldn't mind the slight increase in weight and I believe it is more rigid and scratch resistant than aluminum. High quality indeed.

RE: Its funny...
By Mitch101 on 7/29/2013 2:20:59 PM , Rating: 2
Nokia 925?

Its not plastic either. We don't issue cases for Nokia Phones because they don't need them. Go ahead drop it you might be able to chip or scuff the plastic but you don't need to bother to protect it in with a lousy case that just adds to the bulk and ruins the functionality.

RE: Its funny...
By Reclaimer77 on 7/29/2013 2:25:35 PM , Rating: 2
We don't issue cases for Nokia Phones because they don't need them.

Who is "we"?

This statement definitely implies you are involved with Nokia or Windows Phone directly in some way from a business standpoint. Which would explain your postings, but why not just come out and be honest about it?

I think this "we don't issue cases" is proof positive I've been right all along about you.

RE: Its funny...
By Mitch101 on 7/29/2013 2:37:36 PM , Rating: 4
My company doesn't need to issue cases with Nokia phones. When we hand out iPhone and Android they come with a case because they break too easily.

You are the dumbest fucktard on the planet.

RE: Its funny...
By sprockkets on 7/29/2013 4:12:44 PM , Rating: 2
You said:

Go ahead drop it you might be able to chip or scuff the plastic but you don't need to bother to protect it in with a lousy case that just adds to the bulk and ruins the functionality.

That's what cases are for, you know, like, to protect phones from chipping or scuffing.

RE: Its funny...
By Mitch101 on 7/30/2013 8:59:50 AM , Rating: 2
If you need a case for the device because it cant take a few drops its poorly designed. Its like wrapping a car in couch plastic because your too afraid to get a finger print on it. The scrapes I have on Nokia devices are like badges of honor they are hard to obtain and even then way less annoying than any case. They also seem to disappear somehow.

Ever drop an Android you have to put 10 parts back together. Its like the phone went into yard sale mode parts everywhere. iPhones whats with the cheap glass on them? Oh look another cracked screen.

RE: Its funny...
By Cheesew1z69 on 7/30/2013 9:27:23 AM , Rating: 2
Ever drop an Android you
you have to put 10 parts back together.

RE: Its funny...
By ResStellarum on 7/30/2013 11:10:23 AM , Rating: 2
It's pretty obvious by the comments in this article that Mitch101 is a pro-M$ shill.

RE: Its funny...
By Cheesew1z69 on 7/30/2013 11:13:08 AM , Rating: 2
It sure is...

RE: Its funny...
By Mitch101 on 7/30/2013 5:01:09 PM , Rating: 2
Am I pro MS I guess I am My Windows Phone, X-Box, and PC have done me well and continue to do so. Ive had some quirks with Windows PC but once ATI/AMD got their drivers sorted out its been good and the quirks there are in Windows 8 are resolved for me in Windows 8.1.

My 6 or so Android devices have all had poor to no support or upgrades abandoned, buggy, crash, hang, fall apart, etc but not just me the Wifes Android devices as well. Oh yea I bought into the Samsuck hype only to listen to the wife complain about pulling the battery every month and being unable to sync with a PC. Been out plenty of times with friend and watched them tell me how great their Android device is and then pull the battery to make it work again. I found it amazing people tolerated that and still loved the device? It was like watching Windows ME on a phone only they didn't complain when it failed. Maybe its gotten better but Windows Phone has been so solid why would I change from Working to possible headaches again? Its not worth chancing to me.

Of those Droids Ive owned 3 Android phones and learned to hate them passionately and Im not buying the hype any more. Ive owned one Windows Phone for 2 years and never once had it hang, freeze or need to be rebooted and replaced it with another Windows Phone because of it. But I guess that makes me stupid or a fan because I don't like having to pull the battery monthly. On my latest Windows Phone there is no way to pull the battery but luckily I dont ever need to.

So if that makes me a fanbois because my Windows Phone works flawlessly then so be it. I'm a fan because I like devices that work.

RE: Its funny...
By retrospooty on 7/30/2013 9:18:42 PM , Rating: 2
Android didn't even get really good until last year. Its a totally different game now. If your opinions are based on 2+ years old androids you need to either educate yourself on todays phones or stfu. Its as if you are saying the iPhone doesn't have a voice controlled assistant because you are talking about an iPhone 4. if you like Windows Phone stick with it, I agree it's good and I'm not suggesting you change. But if you're going to talk about other platforms, at least educate yourself on them because you're just looking like an idiot.

RE: Its funny...
By Reclaimer77 on 7/30/2013 9:58:25 PM , Rating: 1
This is like the third time he's pulled the "my wife" card. For fuks sake, she's probably the type who can't even get the microwave clock set. How are we supposed to know?

And wtf kind of husband is he? Get her a new phone asshole! Sheesh. He can't spend the $35 upgrade fee for his own wife and get her a new handset?

How do we even know it's Android's fault anyway? Sometimes phones just go bad! Even *gasp* Windows Phones!

Also why won't he tell us WHAT phones he's talking about? I want to know. What models is he talking about, why the big secret?

His entire argument is myopic. And yeah, I'm really sick of people who speaks of Android as if it's the Android from two years ago still.

RE: Its funny...
By Mitch101 on 7/30/2013 10:43:58 PM , Rating: 2
Even if I were female I would have a bigger penis than you.

Shes had 3 phones in the last 2 years. Ive more than said which ones they are. Its why I say Samsuck. Ive paid them enough to be able to call them what they are.

I'm as myopic as you are vacuous.

RE: Its funny...
By retrospooty on 7/30/2013 10:48:22 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe, but on a clueless scale you are far superior.

RE: Its funny...
By Reclaimer77 on 7/30/2013 10:51:54 PM , Rating: 2
Even if I were female I would have a bigger penis than you.

That's the second penis reference you've made just today alone.

First off I'm not in middle school and I kinda doubt you are. Act like it.

Secondly are you trying to compensate for something? Because I'm pretty happy with my penis and so is your mom :)

RE: Its funny...
By Mitch101 on 7/30/2013 11:31:42 PM , Rating: 2
You say act like it but I see many of your posts are offensive way before anyone elses.

If they don't ban you from DT Ill be glad to leave the site. You win. DT can enjoy your contributions.

RE: Its funny...
By retrospooty on 7/30/2013 11:38:42 PM , Rating: 2
You gonna cry by bro?

RE: Its funny...
By Mitch101 on 7/30/2013 11:59:22 PM , Rating: 2
Nope just not worth wasting my life with you two. Enjoy your little circle jerk with Reclaimer

RE: Its funny...
By Reclaimer77 on 7/31/2013 12:08:49 AM , Rating: 2
If they don't ban you from DT Ill be glad to leave the site.

Man if I had a dime for every time you've cried wolf and said you would leave and/or stop debating me...

Ban me on what grounds by the way? Just curious.

RE: Its funny...
By Mitch101 on 7/30/2013 10:46:23 PM , Rating: 2
Bull you don't have to buy a 2 year old Android to experience the pain of them abandoning updates within 6 months or freezes or stuttering etc. The Samsung S4 had major stuttering issues.

RE: Its funny...
By retrospooty on 7/30/2013 10:52:21 PM , Rating: 2
I agree Samsung bloats it out to way beyond rediculus, but that is Samsung, not Android. Its like blaming MS for the 20 bloatware apps Dell puts on every system.

RE: Its funny...
By Reclaimer77 on 7/30/2013 11:05:30 PM , Rating: 1
Good point.

Hey Mitch, Windows 8 sucks!!! You know why? This Windows 8 PC I bought came with all kinds of crap that made it "stutter"!!

Whaaaaa!!!! Whaaaaa!!!!

I love how he defends Windows 8 because you can install programs that bring back the Start menu. But he won't take the same few simple steps to do the same with his Android phones. What the fuck is that all about?

RE: Its funny...
By Mitch101 on 7/30/2013 11:23:50 PM , Rating: 1
Ill be a little bitch like you whaa we shouldn't have to Samsung should do everything for us.

RE: Its funny...
By retrospooty on 7/30/2013 11:44:32 PM , Rating: 2
No, I am just not buying Samsung... Or MS until they deserve it. Neither of them needed to "do" anything. Both just keep adding useless crap no one asked for, pushing their own agendas, ignoring what customers want, making once good products bad... So, you don't get my money.

RE: Its funny...
By df9shdf2f on 8/1/2013 10:36:48 AM , Rating: 2
If the Luminas are cheap, plastic, bulky, etc, what phone is not? Almost all smart phones are enclosed in plastic, save for, say, the HTC One and the iPhone 5.

Blames MS ?
By retrospooty on 7/29/2013 10:14:26 AM , Rating: 2
That isnt really a good business strategy. At the time they signed with MS, and still true today, there were 2 major players. Apple and Android. Obviously Apple is closed and Android is open, so IOS is not an option *(same and BB). That left either Android, the world most used mobile OS, or Windows Phone, a tiny percentage of the market. So.... You chose the one that no-one is buying and blame them for no-one buying your phones? Bassackward logic there buddy. You should have gone with both OS's. No reason you couldnt make Androids and Windows phones.

this is especially poignant after what they [should have] learned with Symbian. An OS can make or break you.

RE: Blames MS ?
By maven81 on 7/29/2013 10:22:15 AM , Rating: 5
Making android phones would mean competing with the likes of Samsung, which would stretch Nokia too thin. They would always be an also ran, rather then a top tier android manufacturer. Witness how well things are going for HTC which makes only android phones.
I say it's better to be a leader in their market, then a bit player in the android market.

RE: Blames MS ?
By retrospooty on 7/29/2013 10:24:51 AM , Rating: 2
And how is that working out for them?

Like I said, they could have made both, not ONLY android. Its as if they learned nothing from slowly riding Symbian from dominance into the pit of irrelevance.

RE: Blames MS ?
By maven81 on 7/29/2013 10:28:16 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah I know you said they could make both, but that requires more resources. And I'm not convinced the small increase in sales would justify the effort. Sure they have a meager market share right now but at least it's growing steadily.

RE: Blames MS ?
By retrospooty on 7/29/2013 10:32:59 AM , Rating: 2
Well, good luck Nokia.

As far as "blaming" MS, its kind of a BS move though. There is one choice that everyone is buying and one that no-one is buying and you pick which one? Then you blame them? Whatever.

RE: Blames MS ?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/29/2013 11:20:31 AM , Rating: 2
Yes but I'm sure when Microsoft pitched the partnership to Nokia, they made certain assurances . Or gave them some kind of prediction of where they would be at today with Windows phone.

This is what I have always criticized Microsoft about. They treat their consumer devices as hobbies instead of worthwhile persuits. Windows Phone is stagnating but they don't seem to care.

Its time for an exit strategy Nokia. Why throw good money after bad and develop WP apps? That's crazy! And it still wont solve the biggest hole in the WP inventory: lack of Google apps.

RE: Blames MS ?
By retrospooty on 7/29/2013 11:23:55 AM , Rating: 2
Yup... I dunno what the issue is. Some companies just don't seem to "get" what is going on in tech today. Riding Symbian from its best selling phones on earth to extintion was a really bad move. Like RIMM, they jumped years too late. Then, when they jumped, they chose what? LOL. Oh well.

RE: Blames MS ?
By Mitch101 on 7/29/2013 2:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
Symbian had no future Nokia would be like RIM today ever decreasing.

The problem is social media the more Windows Phones they can get into users hands the more people will discover how good Windows Phones are and suggest them to their friends. Windows Phone has the highest satisfaction rate even Siri said so until they gagged her.

The second problem is getting sales people to push the Windows Phone. Instead people look at the specs of the device over the functionality of the device. Now that Windows Phone has flagship devices with the best cameras on the market they are only a few months away from matching the screen resolution and processor power despite not requiring it to have a fast robust device.

The third problem is Samsung delivered with the S3 had everyone continued to make the Android crap they were making then Windows Phone would be increasing faster. Now that Windows Phone has surpassed the S3 it still needs to solve the social media aspect of getting the device out there and into peoples hands. Once they see how rock solid the device is they will tell thier friends and so the trend upward continues.

RE: Blames MS ?
By Reclaimer77 on 7/29/13, Rating: 0
RE: Blames MS ?
By Mitch101 on 7/29/2013 2:34:50 PM , Rating: 3
Stop looking at your tiny penis.

RE: Blames MS ?
By retrospooty on 7/29/2013 6:22:49 PM , Rating: 2

What is it like in your world? good that its passed the S2 from Q2 2012, but its now Q3 2013 and it competition is even stiffer.

RE: Blames MS ?
By retrospooty on 7/29/2013 6:24:27 PM , Rating: 2
Derp... S3 from Q2 2012

RE: Blames MS ?
By pandemonium on 7/30/2013 3:40:24 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly the way I see it. In popular media and sales, the race for hardware specs is running amok. Why? Who cares? Does having a more powerful processor actually assist your every day use on that device? Not necessarily. This is how Nokia got away with having "sub-par" hardware for so many years; because their software optimized that hardware handily.

Consumers don't know what they really want. They're sold on higher numbers in products and cheaper numbers from their wallets.

Slowly, the uninformed consumers are starting to disregard the sales pitch of numbers and are just trying it out and seeing how the actual interaction works and basing their judgements on that.

RE: Blames MS ?
By EnzoFX on 7/29/2013 6:50:04 PM , Rating: 2
and now Nokia's going to do their work for them. Getting devs to port their apps. MS fail.

RE: Blames MS ?
By Mint on 7/29/2013 7:47:13 PM , Rating: 2
It's not working out that badly. They're up to 7.4M smartphones in the last quarter, and the 1020 is grabbing headlines. Growth is faster than any non-Samsung Android manufacturer.

If they went with Android, they'd be starting form 0% and competing with guys in Korea and China who have cost advantages and significant market share in 2011.

If Nokia made the switch in 2009, Android would've been hands down the smart choice. But in late 2010? WP is their best chance. MS isn't going to let WP wither away. It's too important to the future of personal computing and ecommerce. Don't forget that MS is paying Nokia $250M per quarter in their deal, and they only get that money back from Nokia in license fees years in the future if WP8 succeeds. I highly doubt MS would have given Nokia that money if they went multiplatform with Android.

They pumped $4B in losses to take on the Playstation juggernaut for a presence in the living room, and they'll spend a few billion to get a place in your pocket as well.

RE: Blames MS ?
By InsGadget on 7/31/2013 2:36:24 AM , Rating: 2
Absolutely agree. Nokia is doing pretty well considering where they were a couple years ago.

RE: Blames MS ?
By maven81 on 7/29/2013 10:25:09 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry, that should say mostly android phones, I forgot that they make windows phones too.

RE: Blames MS ?
By jmarchel on 7/29/2013 12:51:20 PM , Rating: 2
Are you saying Nokia is unable to compete ? Then they deserve to die.

RE: Blames MS ?
By BladeVenom on 7/30/2013 10:05:16 AM , Rating: 1
When they announced the switch to Windows, Nokia was making more than four times as many smartphones as Samsung. Nokia was the number one smartphone manufacturer in the word then. They would not have had any trouble then competing against Samsung. Besides Samsung made both Android and Windows phones.

RE: Blames MS ?
By wind79 on 7/30/2013 11:23:55 AM , Rating: 1
What is wrong with being the Top Manufacturer for Android? When Nokia first decided to go with Windows, Android was still young and anyone's game. Given the polish of Nokia, the Lumia 1020 running on Android would probably dominate the Galaxy S4. Nokia made a wrong choice, and crying over spilled milk is not helping.

RE: Blames MS ?
By timothyd97402 on 7/29/2013 12:21:42 PM , Rating: 2
The man's comments were probably a strategic jab to sham MS into action on the apps front. Let's face it their initial Windows 8 apps were pretty horrible, I can just imagine what their Windows Phone 8 apps are like.

As far as blaming Nokia for choosing the wrong platform, well, they accepted a high level Microsoft executive as their new CEO and coincidentally were given a boatload of Microsoft cash at about the same time. Folks this was Microsoft acquiring Nokia for all intents and purposes. Who's phone platform do you think they were going to "choose".

RE: Blames MS ?
By retrospooty on 7/29/2013 1:23:01 PM , Rating: 2
You may be right... Good luck with that though. If there is ONE thing MS isn't doing lately is listening to their customers wants and needs.

RE: Blames MS ?
By althaz on 7/29/2013 9:33:53 PM , Rating: 4
Whilst the initial Windows 8 apps were fairly awful (and the critical mail app still is), Windows Phone was actually in MUCH better shape. The default apps in Windows Phone are superb (easily the best email client IMO, unless you primarily use Gmail, then Android rules) and a keyboard that actually craps all over everybody else (the next best probably being the BB keyboard, which is almost a direct rip off).

The problem for Windows 8 isn't what's built in (because I think out of the box without installing third party apps, Windows Phone absolutely slaughters its competition) - it's the third party apps. There's a decided lack of quality games and some very popular services still don't have apps. The situation is improving, but like Nokia says, very slowly.

RE: Blames MS ?
By InsGadget on 7/31/2013 2:38:31 AM , Rating: 2
100% true.

WP8 user here
By chmilz on 7/29/2013 10:12:01 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah, it's missing some important apps, but a lot of what's "missing" in app form isn't - it's baked into the OS itself. IMHO WP8 is the best out-of-the-box smartphone experience there is. I get made fun of for having one, but then I show iPhone users my merged contacts and they make this sad face and show me how they need to open 5 apps to get the same information.

It's not perfect but MS is on version 2 while Apple is going on version 7, and the MS experience is already better.

Oh yeah, and the keyboard destroys the iPhone too.

*I also have a work-provided iPhone 5, so I have both side by side for regular comparison... I hate the iPhone, and not because it's Apple

RE: WP8 user here
By retrospooty on 7/29/2013 10:16:31 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah... Its a good OS. The only real problem with it is not many people want it. Nokia made a really bad choice going with an only MS model.

RE: WP8 user here
By Argon18 on 7/29/2013 3:18:30 PM , Rating: 2
Opinions of good or bad don't matter when you've already got more mature established players, namely Android and iOS.

There's no compelling reason for Android or iOS users to switch into the Microsoft ecosystem, hence the poor sales. Combine that with lack of 3rd party apps, and Windows Phone is essentially a dead end platform.

RE: WP8 user here
By p05esto on 7/29/2013 8:32:27 PM , Rating: 2
People are stupid, you know that. People were dumb and buyins iPods when there were better choices long before the ipod and have always been better choices. I could care less what the marority of collective idiots want. I know what I want - Windows Phone.

RE: WP8 user here
By AssBall on 7/29/2013 10:35:51 AM , Rating: 2
My technology challenged grandmother-in-law couldn't make sense of her i-phone, but has no problem with email, text, etc on her Lumia.

I don't think for the average person WP is really missing that many important apps. I believe there is still some stigma out there that since its Windows, it isn't cool, and that is still hurting MS in addition to the lack of polished apps.

RE: WP8 user here
By Reclaimer77 on 7/29/13, Rating: 0
RE: WP8 user here
By Mitch101 on 7/29/2013 2:31:42 PM , Rating: 2
You just make stuff up.

Nokia owns Navteq and Nokia Maps dont require a constant data connection for maps. Enjoy data overages using google maps.

We all know why you and retro are here your both Anti-Microsoft.

RE: WP8 user here
By Reclaimer77 on 7/29/2013 2:37:07 PM , Rating: 2
Nokia owns Navteq and Nokia Maps dont require a constant data connection for maps. Enjoy data overages using google maps.

How does this disprove or challenge anything I say?

So you're saying because there are viable alternatives to Google maps/apps, I'm just "making up" that they're absent on Windows Phone?

We all know why you and retro are here your both Anti-Microsoft.

And, again, that's just your biased take on this. For someone who's "anti-Microsoft", I sure use a ton of their products on a daily basis...

RE: WP8 user here
By Labotomizer on 7/29/2013 4:11:37 PM , Rating: 2
I suppose this Google maps app I have on my Lumina 928 is my imagination. It's 3rd party but has all the features and navigation. Although Here maps from Nokia is superior but you asked. I just thought you would like to know that.

Also, the YouTube app MS made is superior to Google's app on other platforms. So I have that as well. The only issue I have is lack of push email with Gmail due to ActiveSync support going way.

The only apps that are missing are smaller apps for specific companies.

RE: WP8 user here
By Reclaimer77 on 7/29/2013 4:29:19 PM , Rating: 2
Those aren't official Google apps though. Apps done by amateur third party devs are great. But as we've seen all too often, if something comes up in their personal life or they've just straight up decided to quit the project, you're SOL.

That's not going to happen to official Google apps. You'll also get timely updates too. Third party? That's not something you can assume.

The only issue I have is lack of push email with Gmail due to ActiveSync support going way.

That's kind of a big issue though, don't you think? Maybe not for you personally, but that's a non-starter for millions of people! No push Gmail's to my phone? No thank you.

Although Here maps from Nokia is superior but you asked. I just thought you would like to know that.

The "superiority" is opinionated, but kinda irrelevant. Point is there's millions of people locked into using Google apps for everything, whether that's right or wrong, and that makes switching to Windows Phone an even bigger hurdle.

This isn't about what platform is "better", that's not what I'm saying. Google apps could be the worst in the world theoretically, but if that's what everyone is using, it's a de facto standard.

RE: WP8 user here
By Labotomizer on 7/29/2013 10:41:47 PM , Rating: 2
You make some good points for sure. And I think we can have an honest discussion when we don't degenerate into insults. Gmaps Pro has been around for several years, I don't see it going away. It had new features before the official iPhone app did, such as the house layouts and mall mapping. I don't think this is being done by an amateur developer but I understand your point/concern.

As far as lack of Gmail push, I had it set to sync every 30 minutes when it still supported push on 7.x so to me it's not a big deal. I don't need my personal email in real time. I have to deal with that nonsense for work 24x7, plus the more push mailboxes you have the more it impacts your battery life. But for some people it's a bigger issue.

As for Nokia's mapping being superior to Google's, that isn't an opinion. The fact that I like the program better and the interface of their navigation better is opinion. That Navteq has more accurate data than Google maps and supports full offline mapping are facts that make it superior to Google Maps.

I'm pretty open to platforms though. I was burned by Android badly early on and just not interested in giving it another go. I think iOS is a very poor OS and I think their keyboard is absolute crap. That left Windows Phone as the best option for me. Especially since Email is the most important feature a phone provides, followed by texting and calling. The apps are a bonus. And Windows Phone isn't as far in apps as many make it out to be. But there are some that would be nice for many. Starbucks is one I've heard mentioned. I don't care as I think their coffee is terrible but some people love their Starbucks and the app makes payment easy.

I also think Nokia was smart to choose WP over Android or over both. By going just WP they get all sorts of special treatment from MS, have more input on development and got a bunch of money. On the flip side you have the option of going with Android, which maybe would have worked but it's hard to say. I think the HTC One is the only Android device I'd seriously consider to try Android again and it's done absolutely terrible. People are unpredictable. Nokia could have made the most amazing Android phone ever, say the Lumia 1020 with all the cutting edge features that people on this site find important, and it still could have flopped. Because right now it's Samsung that everyone wants. Next year it might be LG. Or maybe Apple again. Or, who knows, Lumia. It's finally hit critical mass on market share.

I was talking to the CIO of HEB, which is a massive grocery chain here in Texas, and I asked about their app on Windows Phone. He told me they were going to wait until it hit 10% market share in sales for a quarter. We're not far off. So we're close to the more specialized apps being developed for the platform.

RE: WP8 user here
By Dribble on 7/29/2013 10:54:39 AM , Rating: 2
See OS X - doesn't matter if your OS is better, getting people to switch is hard.

Thing is, I have my android phone - most people bought an android phone first because it was cheap. I have a bunch of apps I like, spent time learning to use and perhaps even paid for. I use google docs/drive/play/etc. I upgrade my android phone and can just install all those apps I had on my old phone for free. All my email/docs/etc just work. Then I have all the stuff I like and had spent time learning to use on my new phone. I'm sure the same is true for iPhone users too.

... or I could buy a new phone on a new OS where everything works differently, many of my apps don't exist and even if they do I have to pay for them all over again. Doesn't matter if windows the better OS once people are locked into an OS they know they are unlikely to change.

RE: WP8 user here
By chmilz on 7/30/2013 10:10:26 AM , Rating: 2
That's the tough part. Making a great phone isn't enough to sway people away from their investment in an ecosystem.

Windows Phone has a chance because MS is a stalwart with a massive user base that's been looking for a better multi-device experience. Blackberry on the other hand...

Mind boggling numbers
By geekrick09 on 7/29/2013 10:38:50 AM , Rating: 4
Google Inc.'s (GOOG) Android platform has over a billion apps, while Apple's App Store has over 900 million apps.

Since when did a million become a billion? Please correct it Jason. It should be more than a million and 900 thousand.

Apart from that I have to say that as a developer I have iphone5, Samsung Galaxy S4 and Lumia 920,i.e. devices from all three ecosystems. I get the highest amount of revenue from ios followed by android. Windows phone contribution is still negligible. So developer prioritize in that order. Chicken and egg problem at its best.

However my personal device of choice for day to day use is the Lumia 920. I love the interface and the GDR3 update should fix most of the remaining loopholes. As for development tools-what can I say WP8 development using WPF/XAML, C# Expression Studio and Visual Studio really do blow the competetion away. I wish Objective-C and Java for android had the same amount of RAD tools. Also I am very biased towards C++(performance) and C#(Syntactic sugar and some real good capabilities). So even though I am getting less money compared to the other platforms I enjoy developing for WP more.

I hope tha Xamarin introduces more and more integration among platforms and with visual studio. I would love to maintain only a single C# codebase for all three platforms.

I also hope other developers start developing for the WP market. The more apps the more users will migrate and it will open up a third source of revenue in the future.

RE: Mind boggling numbers
By retrospooty on 7/29/2013 10:42:39 AM , Rating: 2
RE: Mind boggling numbers
By Brandon Hill on 7/29/2013 10:49:21 AM , Rating: 2
Damn, that's a ****load of apps! ;)


Nokia is spot on!
By maven81 on 7/29/2013 9:57:20 AM , Rating: 2
I've had iphone and android users remark that they liked the hardware, and that they were intrigued b the OS, but tease me about not having a particular app. If Nokia can change that, they are poised for success.

Microsoft IS to blame
By mycropht on 7/29/2013 10:39:56 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, I do believe MS is to blame. I have bought a developer license and Windows 8. When my wife (with a WP8 phone) wished for an analog clock live tile, I was happy to try. Then I found out that there is no official way to get timer ticks every minute unless the app is masquerading as a navigation tool. My enthusiasm waned. It did not help that my Windows 8 desktop hated my mouse and in turn I hated its guts.

So much potential and so much stupidity in WP8. It does not end with timers. WP will be a great Phone OS but it shameful that Microsoft need at least 3 versions and a service pack to do it right.

Sorry for the rant. I feel much better now. :)

By Stephen! on 7/29/2013 10:42:27 AM , Rating: 2
As a company we don't want to rely on somebody else and sit and wait for them to get it right.

By that logic, why be in a partnership at all, if they don't want to rely on someone else?

By p05esto on 7/29/2013 8:30:06 PM , Rating: 2
I have a Windows phone (awesome, lumina 928)... and I already have more apps than I need. I set up the phone, installed a dozen utilities, weather and probably another dozens games which I rarely play. So out of 165,000 apps I only needed 20 and probably won't go into the app store for months, there's just no point for me. The phone already has and does everything I need.

The Curse Of Microsoft
By ResStellarum on 7/30/2013 11:20:32 AM , Rating: 2
It's too late for Nokia now anyway. Even if they did adopt Android, they'll be bankrupt or get bought out before anything comes of it. That's the price of going M$ exclusive. Dell, HP, and other OEMs are suffering from the same malady.

I say good riddance. Maybe future up and coming OEMs can learn from those mistakes and avoid the curse of doing business with Microsoft.

What about an open device?
By BabelHuber on 7/29/2013 10:17:19 AM , Rating: 1
Prior to WP, all Nokia Smartphones were open. You could install Apps from any source you wanted, you had a filebrowser, you could gain root access etc.

WP is a closed system OTOH.

I like the Nokia build quality and cameras and owned some Symbian smartphones, but WP simply is not for me.

Also I like open bootloaders, custom Kernels, the ability to switch launchers, browsers, contacts, phone book etc.

I only pay for a device when I can get admin privileges and do as I wish.

Trying to force a launcher or a browser on me means losing a customer.

And I don't give a damn how 'good' the default Apps are. I want choice period.

"My sex life is pretty good" -- Steve Jobs' random musings during the 2010 D8 conference

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