backtop


Print 48 comment(s) - last by The Raven.. on Dec 23 at 10:02 AM


The WP7 marketplace ramp-up compared to the iPhone app store (red line).  (Source: WP7Applist.com)
Nokia and Microsoft have had discussions about possible WP7-based Nokia device

In his weekly op-ed, mobile godhead Eldar Murtazin announced that Nokia has been in talks with Microsoft to possibly develop a device based on the Windows Phone 7 operating system.

"This two way dialogue was initiated by new Nokia management," Murtazin writes. "It's a desperate measure for both companies. This is their only solution to stop an all conquering Android."

Nokia's tribulations have been well-documented here on DT [1] [2] [3]. And while Nokia has not commented on the alleged discussions with Microsoft, it seems particularly plausible considering Nokia's new CEO is a former Microsoft exec.

A Windows Phone-based device must sound even more enticing to Nokia, amid reports that the Windows Phone marketplace is ramping up faster than Android did after first launching, and is holding its own against even the Apple store.

"The Windows Phone 7 Marketplace reaching 4,000 apps two months after launch has to be one of the most rapid ramp-ups in recent times, reaching this milestone faster than Android, which took from October 2008 to March 2009 to reach about the same level," Al Hilwa, an analyst with research firm IDC, wrote in a research note.

"We can say that for a company that just a few months ago was an also-ran in mobile, having 10 smartphones released in 30 countries is not a trivial achievement," Hilwa wrote. "I would not be surprised if Microsoft had the third largest app portfolio in the industry by the middle of next year."

With so many reviews and news reports writing off Windows Phone because of a lack of apps, the analysis is encouraging for Microsoft. And even if sales U.S. sales figures can't match that of the iPhone, international reports say WP7 is selling well in Europe and Asia, according to EWeek. But Microsoft is also in a position that allows itself to lose money on a product initially, if adoption is slow. 

"No one expected WP7 to take the market by a storm, but the role of the first release was to [put] Microsoft in the game. To be clear this is a long term battle that will be pivotal for Microsoft’s long-term relevance," Hilwa wrote.


Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

App store ramp up, not surprising
By nafhan on 12/21/2010 9:20:06 AM , Rating: 4
This is, what, the 6th mobile app store to launch? It's much easier to port apps or copy the design of existing programs than make the original. So, no surprise that WP7 app store is growing so quickly.




RE: App store ramp up, not surprising
By SanLC504 on 12/21/2010 9:28:59 AM , Rating: 3
Not only that, but when Android was released, there was only one phone: the HTC G1; and one carrier: T-Mobile. Now, they have two carriers (soon to be four+) and five phones available within the first two months.

Availability says a lot.


RE: App store ramp up, not surprising
By Souka on 12/21/2010 1:39:20 PM , Rating: 4
Let's not forget the advertising budget and brand recognition that Microsoft has put behind the WM7 launch.... compared to the Adroid "launch"

Night and day difference....


RE: App store ramp up, not surprising
By The Raven on 12/21/2010 9:55:18 AM , Rating: 2
This is very true. For example, there is an app for Android that tells you when you are approaching a speed trap while driving. I guarantee you that at launch time for the G1 (or iPhone for that matter) nobody had that idea let alone had any sort of meaningful code written.

But now there is a new platform, it is easier now that the idea has already come to fruition on another OS to port or even totally rewrite the code for the new OS.


RE: App store ramp up, not surprising
By Luticus on 12/21/2010 9:58:48 AM , Rating: 5
That and the fact that WP7 using programming languages and the .net platform. Something devs are already familiar with. I can attest to the awesomeness of C#+.net myself. Plus XNA works on WP7 as well which is a nice help to game development.

The dev tools do count for something and visual studio is pretty nice:D


RE: App store ramp up, not surprising
By Iaiken on 12/21/2010 10:27:36 AM , Rating: 3
I'm a C++/C# developer and in the past I had done extensive work in Java and developing on Android was still a big shift for me because of how far .net has come as it chugs towards version 3.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem developing on Android now, but there was a massive learning curve to this mishmash of an API.

From what I've seen of the WP7 SDK, I could transition directly into it using almost all of the standard .Net libraries and even my own C++ inclusions.


By Mitch101 on 12/21/2010 10:33:06 AM , Rating: 4
Plus the wealth of free development tools, free video training, free e-books, develop in VB, C# silverlight, and free webcasts/seminar, Microsoft supported user/discussion groups. There is simply no shortage of information, support, or training on any Microsoft product. Even if your broke you can learn about any Microsoft product. Free trial editions some as long as 365day, VM's, and some if you attend a free seminar are free forever full versions.

This is something every other company should learn to adopt if you want people to use and develop for your product. A while back I went to relearn Lotus Notes and couldn't find jack on relearning it without spending a fortune and couldn't find a trial version of it. No wonder its dying off.


By cjohnson2136 on 12/21/2010 11:45:14 AM , Rating: 3
I would agree I just had a class on cell phone development. Making apps for WP7 and Android. From a student perspective WP7 SDK is a lot easier. I just had trouble getting the SDK for android working. But now I am getting better with android I still find C# and .net much easier though. I am hoping to get a few free apps released within the next month once mircosoft validates my student account


RE: App store ramp up, not surprising
By Murst on 12/21/2010 10:04:53 AM , Rating: 3
I don't really see anyone arguing that is ISN'T easier. However, just because it may be easier doesn't mean that people will make apps. Take a look at Palm or Blackberry.


RE: App store ramp up, not surprising
By Strunf on 12/22/2010 8:10:08 AM , Rating: 3
My car GPS has done that for ages... I really don't see the innovation on porting that to a smartphone, I think that's pretty normal... the same can be said to 90% of the smartphone apps, most are nothing less than a smartphone version of a PC app.


RE: App store ramp up, not surprising
By theapparition on 12/22/2010 10:08:25 AM , Rating: 2
Your car GPS may post the speed limits on a road but does not show you where cops are sitting in the median waiting to ticket you.

There are apps that let you see where real speed traps are and even when active. Your old (or even brand new) GPS can't do that.


RE: App store ramp up, not surprising
By Strunf on 12/22/2010 10:40:34 PM , Rating: 2
My old GPS tells me not only the speed limits but also where all the speed cameras are... my new one does all that and tells me when there are works on the road or even traffic jams... car GPS have been improving too, they have to or no one will buy a new one.


By The Raven on 12/23/2010 10:02:54 AM , Rating: 2
The one I heard about is community powered and tells you where the cops post up and wait with their li-dar.

And my point wasn't that it is some big innovation. My point was that it wasn't the first thing that someone thought of when thinking of an app to create. People were making games, cats that repeat stuff in a high voice, and fart raters, and baby shakers earlier on.

But now that we have a healthy history of what people want to do on their phones, the ideas for apps on a new platform are getting increasingly less innovative, which takes less effort. And I'm not saying that innovation will die off. I'm just saying that there was a boom at the beginning because running around with a phone that can do all these things was a new concept.


By omnicronx on 12/21/2010 11:57:42 AM , Rating: 3
Somewhat.. There are no native apps on Windows Phone, everything is .net based. So unless they are porting crossplatform software to begin with (mono etc), the design is pretty much all that can be taken from other apps.. And when you consider that MS requires you to follow certain gui guidelines and the way the gui works in general being very different then other OS's pretty means that complete rewrites are in order.

3D Games for example would have to be completely rewritten as the other big platforms (Android, iOS, WebOS) are essentially all coded in c++. Porting from one platform to another is not very difficult.

They obviously taken ideas and basic designs from other platforms, but for a two month period, in which it did not release in North America until last month is quite an achievement.. even if they are the 6th platform..


Classic MS strategy
By 5150Joker on 12/21/2010 9:06:48 AM , Rating: 2
When they're the underdog in a market, they come out aggressive and willing to lose billions to create marketshare. They did that with the Xbox and Xbox 360 and now their console system is leading in sales and kicking ass in online subscriptions. The same thing will happen with Windows mobile, they neglected it for too long and gave Apple too big of a head start. Someone at MS finally got wise to that and aren't going to let Apple or Google get away with it. This is all good news for the consumer. Personally, I'm interested in a mature WP7/WP8 platform much more than Apple's IOS or Android. Reasons being that MS has it's hands in everything software that's worth having (Xbox live, MS Office, growing app store) along with a unified hardware platform (no fragmentation like Android). Plus MS won't be so hard assed about controlling Windows mobile as much as Apple.




RE: Classic MS strategy
By Murst on 12/21/2010 10:08:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They did that with the Xbox and Xbox 360 and now their console system is leading in sales

Leading in sales? I guess, if you actually ignore the Wii. OSX is also leading in sales in the OS space, if you ignore Windows.


RE: Classic MS strategy
By jvillaro on 12/21/2010 11:08:58 AM , Rating: 1
Yes Wii is leading in total sales, but after every one and their mothers bought it on impulse, its sales are going down really bad. For the past several months Xbox has out sold every console. And its attach rate is the highest for any console. So yes in a sense it is leading in sales.


RE: Classic MS strategy
By Murst on 12/21/2010 11:53:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yes Wii is leading in total sales, but after every one and their mothers bought it on impulse, its sales are going down really bad. For the past several months Xbox has out sold every console

Where did you get that info? From all the numbers I've seen, the Wii is still outselling the Xbox 360 (for example, the in the last week there were 1.5 million Wiis sold, and 700k Xbox 360s - that's more than a 2-1 margin).


RE: Classic MS strategy
By nikon133 on 12/22/2010 4:54:38 AM , Rating: 2
He might be talking about US market where, to my knowledge, X360 is leading in the last couple of months.

Worldwide - again, to my knowledge - PS3 is catching up X360 and is expected to have bigger user base by the end of 2011, while Wii is still the top dog.


RE: Classic MS strategy
By jvillaro on 12/22/2010 4:51:46 PM , Rating: 2
You know you can google it anyway...
Yes, this is mostly in the US (worldwide Wii does out sell almost 2:1).
No, I'm not a fanboy, even though I don't have a Wii (just doesn't do it for me), I have an Xbox, PS3 and PSP.

Just a few places (although its been on every tech related site, including this one).

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/xbox-outsells-...

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/23124...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-13/microsoft...

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/12/10/npd-november-...


RE: Classic MS strategy
By Tony Swash on 12/21/10, Rating: -1
RE: Classic MS strategy
By cjohnson2136 on 12/21/2010 1:15:28 PM , Rating: 2
more MS bashing from Tony Swash no surprise there


RE: Classic MS strategy
By themaster08 on 12/21/2010 1:17:21 PM , Rating: 2
He's just pissed that Kinect has sold quicker than the iPad so far...


RE: Classic MS strategy
By cjohnson2136 on 12/21/2010 1:22:41 PM , Rating: 1
He is just doing what he always does. An article that says MS did something good. He comes in and here says how there entire company rides on Windows and Office, which ok so what if it does. Windows and Office are not going any where. The business world is almost entirely Windows and Office and you you say differently your an idiot. He just spews all this crap so he can bash on MS.


RE: Classic MS strategy
By KoolAidMan1 on 12/21/2010 2:16:38 PM , Rating: 2
The iPad has made more profit in one year than the XBox 360 did in five, so I really don't see your point.

I personally love both, so no fanboy arguments here. That said, there is nothing fanboy about hard sales numbers.


RE: Classic MS strategy
By HighWing on 12/21/2010 1:51:56 PM , Rating: 2
Tony, I'll give you credit for what you've posted makes sense, and you seem to know a bit about what your talking about... But in everything you posted, you danced around one topic that seems to have slipped through your facts. While it is true that their office/os monopoly is slipping, and they will never have a monopoly in the console, or mobile phone market, the point is they don't need to!! There is this thing called diversification , and that is what MS is doing here!

They know full well that office can't bankroll the company for ever. And while dumping billions to make millions might not make sense in the short term, if you scale it out to long term, it makes perfect sense. They don't need to be the monopoly in the console of mobile phone market, they just need to be established and be making money in that market. And I'll bet you money that is their plan. Would they like to be a monopoly... sure, what company doesn't? But they don't need to be the monopoly to profit.

In fact their business model here is already showing. You got a Movie you buy on your computer, you then stream it to your TV via XBox, later you are on the road and you finish watching it on your phone. (Reread and replace Movie with Game, Music, etc) Granted they aren't the first to the market to do this, the point is they don't need to be the first. People are already familiar with how to use windows and it's GUI. You couple that with several devices that easily extend that familiar functionality and easily connect and share data with each other... (can we say cloud) and you've got a multi-billion dollar business model that is poised to be very successful.

But the whole story here is that even if they don't get a consumer to buy all their devices that connect together, they still have diversified their business model so their money is coming in from multiple sources, rather than just the Office cow. While they may not be making billions, they are still making millions, and those millions will just keep adding up as the years go on.


RE: Classic MS strategy
By Tony Swash on 12/21/2010 2:55:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Tony, I'll give you credit for what you've posted makes sense, and you seem to know a bit about what your talking about... But in everything you posted, you danced around one topic that seems to have slipped through your facts. While it is true that their office/os monopoly is slipping, and they will never have a monopoly in the console, or mobile phone market, the point is they don't need to!! There is this thing called diversification , and that is what MS is doing here!


It's clear that Microsoft has tried very hard to diversify for over fifteen years. Initially I think they thought it would be fairly easy to use their Windows/Office monopoly to leverage new and lucrative business lines. In fact it turned out to be very, very much harder than they had anticipated. None - and I do mean none - of Microsoft's attempts at diversifying have made much money. Many have lost a lot of money.

Microsoft is used to living with the huge monopoly revenues from Windows/Office and this means they can throw money around and at one project after another. But throwing money around will not guarantee a success in the new world of mobile and consumer devices and services (ask Sony). Currently their consumer division loses money. The Xbox is a crappy business, not a crappy product, I have never used one so I have no idea how good Xbox is or isn't, but it's a crappy business. Razor thin margins even when it's does actually make money.

Take away Windows/Office and the company would go under.

So can Microsoft find a new, large and profitable business to replace its ageing core products? It's a hard environment for them to do so. They face one competitor in Google which can offer essentially free alternatives to Microsoft's offerings. With free Android in play in exactly the same market as Microsoft's WP7 how much can Microsoft actually charge for WP7?

And then there is Apple which can seemingly outflank Microsoft in one market after another. Why?

Personally I think that Microsoft probably needs a near death experience to really retool the company. Microsoft has never had a near death experience but Steve Jobs has had a near death experience three times (and I am not talking about his cancer). First was when Next, his venture after being ejected from Apple, nearly failed and had to be drastically reshaped as a software company after the failure of it's hardware business. Second was Pixar which almost didn't make it, Jobs had nearly run out of money keeping it going until the success of Toy Story saved it. Third was of course Apple where although Jobs was not involved during its years of decline he sure as hell was paying close attention. And when he came back he found that near death had transformed the companies internal and corporate culture so it was ripe and ready to be remade. That's what nearly dying does.

I think the sooner that Microsoft starts to feel the pinch in its core Windows/Office business the better it will be for the company long term. Until the old cash cow falters it will keep on running itself in the same tired old way. Personally long term I think Microsoft should not try to be a consumer business. It should concentrate on its enterprise products. If it takes that route it may end being a smaller and perhaps less profitable company but it could be secure long term strategy and it wouldn't flounder around so much in such an embarrassing way in public.


RE: Classic MS strategy
By kaosstar on 12/21/2010 3:12:11 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft does not have as fragmented a business model as you suggest. Their strategy involves extending the Windows, Xbox Live, and Zune brands across platforms and into the cloud, similar to what Apple (and perhaps even Google) are doing. Microsoft is in a much stronger position, however.

Also, Windows is in no way threatened. Mac OS will never extend beyond its niche for trendsters, computing novices, and media production professionals. Linux is for nerds with way too much time on their hands, and will never offer the polish, reliability, functionality, ease of use, and compatibility of Windows. Chrome OS is a niche product for netbooks that offers nothing to the all-important business world.


RE: Classic MS strategy
By Tony Swash on 12/21/2010 5:17:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Microsoft does not have as fragmented a business model as you suggest. Their strategy involves extending the Windows, Xbox Live, and Zune brands across platforms and into the cloud, similar to what Apple (and perhaps even Google) are doing. Microsoft is in a much stronger position, however.

Also, Windows is in no way threatened. Mac OS will never extend beyond its niche for trendsters, computing novices, and media production professionals. Linux is for nerds with way too much time on their hands, and will never offer the polish, reliability, functionality, ease of use, and compatibility of Windows. Chrome OS is a niche product for netbooks that offers nothing to the all-important business world.


We could argue about this endlessly.

Suffice to say I shall keep my Apple shares and will not be purchasing any Microsoft shares ;)


RE: Classic MS strategy
By theapparition on 12/22/2010 10:15:22 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Tony, I'll give you credit for what you've posted makes sense, and you seem to know a bit about what your talking about

No, not really.

For example, take his ridiculous straw man argument:
Take away MS's Windows/Office monopoly and the company would go under.

But you can't take that away. As much as he would wish it, they are the defacto standards in the world.

One could easily say:
Take away Apple's iOS and they would go under.

See what I did there?


of course!
By Luticus on 12/21/2010 9:06:19 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
international reports say WP7 is selling well in Europe and Asia

Of course it's selling well in Europe and Asia! They have all the good phones! Bring the Omnia7 over to America and put it on the Verizon service and I'll buy one tomorrow!




RE: of course!
By Omega215D on 12/21/2010 9:24:47 AM , Rating: 2
Not just put it on the VZW service but make it a world phone with all CDMA and GSM bands and 3/ 3.5G data.


RE: of course!
By Mitch101 on 12/21/2010 9:30:37 AM , Rating: 2
POOF! Verizon and Sprint get the phones in Q1 2011.

Microsoft and Nokia have been in talks for months on a Mobile 7 phone with the latest news and profits at rivals I'm betting we hear about a Nokia Windows 7 device soon.


RE: of course!
By sviola on 12/22/2010 6:47:41 AM , Rating: 2
Yup. Nokia hardware with WP7 would be sweet (imagine a N8 running WP7)


RE: of course!
By Luticus on 12/21/2010 9:54:57 AM , Rating: 2
Hey I'm a fan of all carriers getting wp7 too. I just said vzw because that's my service and as much as i hate their stinking guts (they're evil) you can't beat their coverage.


Makes perfect sense
By dani31 on 12/21/2010 8:58:31 AM , Rating: 3
Yahoo Search powered by Bing.

Ovi Mail powered by Yahoo.

Yahoo maps powered by Ovi.

Meego powered by Nokia and Intel.

And now WP7 powered by Nokia using Bing Maps not Ovi Maps which power Yahoo Maps who's Search engine is powered by Bing.
(most likely using ARM processors and not Intel which power Meego together with Nokia)

Makes perfect sense to me :)




RE: Makes perfect sense
By R3T4rd on 12/21/2010 9:16:20 AM , Rating: 2
Huh? I Lost you after the first sentence....


RE: Makes perfect sense
By Flunk on 12/21/2010 9:30:48 AM , Rating: 2
Follow the trail of money.


RE: Makes perfect sense
By R3T4rd on 12/21/2010 10:54:10 AM , Rating: 2
Ohhhh....!! All the gold and money!! Heheheheh! The yellow brick road. I get it now. LoL!....wait, the yellow brick road leads you to the Wizzard of odds. FTW!....I'm still confused.


Microsoft taking over in 2 years?
By Mitch101 on 12/21/2010 9:09:08 AM , Rating: 3
Nobody needs 200,000 apps either they need maybe 50-100 good ones and most of those will be games anyhow. With over 4,000 for me the gap is close to being done after all anyone with a good idea is copied a thousand times over shortly after and soon to all platforms.

Soon the phone will be on Verizon and Soon it will allow Cut & Paste, and multitasking for third party apps. After that the list of differences among smartphones begins to run out.

Throw in Microsoft's X-Box 360, Windows Media Center, and Microsoft Office integration with Exchange/Sharepoint and now Droid and iPhone start looking like third party phones with limited functionality.

None are bad phones providing you know the limitations of each and are ok with them but Microsoft is going to become a major player in the phone market again. In the end Blackberry is looking at a rogue wave and when it hits its not going to be pretty for rim.




RE: Microsoft taking over in 2 years?
By KoolAidMan1 on 12/21/2010 2:25:53 PM , Rating: 2
With breadth comes depth. You honestly want a large number of developers aiming towards a single platform, if only because it increases the odds of a high quality developer entering that specific app ecosystem. It obviously increases the amount of poor applications, but that doesn't automatically mean that there is a point when high quality applications stop coming through.

Sure, I don't need 200k apps, but if you have that many people working on a platform then you are bound to have more apps and more specialized apps compared to the other. The augmented reality stuff I'm seeing on iOS currently exceeds what I'm seeing on other platforms, and there is no question that productivity and gaming is much better on iOS than on other platforms. Those will all catch up as Android and WM7 get more developers on board.

So yeah, a limited number of apps isn't a virtue. :)


By Mitch101 on 12/22/2010 9:00:29 AM , Rating: 2
I think its one of those things like Gaming consoles.

You get some exclusives but since all 3 consoles sold millions you get most companies that produce their product for all three of them. Sure one console has a slight advantage over another but overall its the same app/game.

Microsoft's goal would be to get enough market base so programmers write their apps for Mobile 7 as well as the current leaders Droid and iPhone. Then its up to Microsoft to offer the exclusive items that Apple and Droid cant deliver. (X-Box, Exchange, Sharepoint, Office, Media Center, etc) This is how I believe Microsoft Mobile 7 will eventually beat out the Droid and iPhone.

I think I was finally able to summarize why Windows Phone 7 will eventually be superior.


Way to go Nokia
By bug77 on 12/21/2010 9:16:41 AM , Rating: 2
I wonder if they realize that this shows how little confidence they have in Meego. Which pretty much guarantees a lukewarm reception, as far as sales are concerned.




RE: Way to go Nokia
By themaster08 on 12/21/2010 9:39:06 AM , Rating: 2
Or maybe they were meeting to discuss Office for the Nokia E Series devices, which has been planned for some time.

This is nothing but media speculation, based on absolutely no reality.

Nokia plan on going ahead with Meego and continuing the development of the Symbian platform.


App store stupidity
By Motoman on 12/21/2010 9:36:21 AM , Rating: 2
First of all, a "quickly ramping up app store" says nothing about the actual success of the devices. It doesn't even say anything about the success of the apps. It just means that there's people making them.

Secondly, 4,000 is already probably 3,900 too many. There's only so many useful applications that can be made to run on a phone, and then there's the other billion apps that are all variations of fart jokes. The number of apps in a given app store connotes nothing positive at all...and probably speaks only to the volume of stupidity both on the parts of the developers and the consumers.

Let us know when the Windows phone OS owns a significant amount of marketshare. That will be a statistic that actually matters.




Typo
By bah12 on 12/21/2010 10:52:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
And even if sales U.S. sales figures can't match
Too many sales, 2nd to last paragraph.




the question is ...
By mforce on 12/22/2010 3:31:50 AM , Rating: 2
Are they porting iFart to WP7 ? :))
Sure you can have millions of apps but most of them will be rubbish anyway so let's not judge by the numbers only.




“So far we have not seen a single Android device that does not infringe on our patents." -- Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith














botimage
Copyright 2015 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki