Print 94 comment(s) - last by sebmel.. on Jul 22 at 7:32 PM

BlackBerry Bold 9700
"That's all I can stands, and I can't stands no more!"

Yesterday during Apple's press conference concerning antenna/reception issues with the iPhone 4, Steve Jobs tried deflect attention away from the device and assert that it was an industrywide problem. Jobs went on to show videos of various phones from competing manufacturers succumbing to attenuation problems when held in a certain way (you can catch the entire presentation here).

By doing this, Jobs made it seem to the untrained eye that this isn't an Apple-specific problem, but just a fact of life for users of smartphones given today's technology.

Not surprisingly, two of the companies that were the subject of Jobs' "See, we aren't the only ones having problems" demonstration are fighting back hard. The first to respond was none other than Nokia:

Antenna design is a complex subject and has been a core competence at Nokia for decades, across hundreds of phone models. Nokia was the pioneer in internal antennas; the Nokia 8810, launched in 1998, was the first commercial phone with this feature.

Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying human behavior, including how people hold their phones for calls, music playing, web browsing and so on. As you would expect from a company focused on connecting people, we prioritize antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict.

In general, antenna performance of a mobile device/phone may be affected with a tight grip, depending on how the device is held. That’s why Nokia designs our phones to ensure acceptable performance in all real life cases, for example when the phone is held in either hand. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying how people hold their phones and allows for this in designs, for example by having antennas both at the top and bottom of the phone and by careful selection of materials and their use in the mechanical design.

RIM co-CEOs Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie also fired back after their crown jewel, the BlackBerry Bold 9700, was shown to be susceptible to dropped bars:

Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple.

It appears that Apple has opened up a whole new can of worms with its press conference, so we wouldn't be surprised if other phone manufacturers start piling on shortly.

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By Trisagion on 7/17/2010 7:30:59 AM , Rating: 5
Steven P Jobs is such an arrogant tool.

RE: (Sigh)
By muhahaaha on 7/17/2010 7:48:19 AM , Rating: 5
Steve Jobs is the epitome of what is wrong with society today.

Candy coat your turds and claim you do no wrong.

Microsoft could have a field day with this, if they had a real marketing department.

RE: (Sigh)
By hughlle on 7/17/2010 7:55:05 AM , Rating: 5
the even more depressing thing is that with any other company, their reputation would be tarnished and sales would plummet. With apple however, no change, even the iphone owners themselves will not admit they have signal issues out of "pride" it appears.

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By kake on 7/17/2010 8:38:00 AM , Rating: 5
Religion is a very, very powerful thing.

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By randomly on 7/17/2010 9:05:21 AM , Rating: 2
Well it's good to see an American company doing well, we need all of those we can get.

Even if we have to invoke a deity to do it.

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By chick0n on 7/17/2010 11:28:53 PM , Rating: 5
sadly without China. Apple aint shit.

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By icanhascpu on 7/18/10, Rating: 0
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By Justin Time on 7/19/2010 4:09:30 AM , Rating: 2
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By sebmel on 7/20/2010 11:04:54 AM , Rating: 2
Nexus One Antennagate:

BlackBerry Bold 9650 Antennagate:

Droid Incredible Antennagate:

Palm Pre Antennagate:

Samsung Galaxy S Antennagate:

A site showing user manuals advising not to 'hold it wrong':
Sony Ericsson W350i
Sony Ericsson W600i
Pantech Matrix
HTC Touch
Pantech Impact
Nokia N97
Nokia e63

Seems to me there's an issue with the physics of RF. The most mature assessment of this issue is on Anandtech. All phones have this issue but the iPhone 4 has it bad. Using the iPhone bumper makes that phone just poor, like most of the rest.

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By flatrock on 7/21/2010 6:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
You're buying into Job's snow job. Yes, all phones will suffer interference from the human body and will get a weaker signal when held in a particular way. That is unquestionably true.

The issue with the iPhone is that you aren't just interfering with the antenna, you are bridging the wifi and cell antennas which causes a significantly larger drop in signal that you just get from merely having your hand interfere with the signal.

What is worse is that Apple could have easily prevented this problem by covering the antennas where they meet so that your hand couldn't easily bridge the gap. This is a really stupid design flaw with a simple fix that was ignored out of arrogance.

Now Jobs is trying to make it sound like the relatively normal interferance problems, rather than a significant design flaw because they hav now shipped so many phones that it may cost more to do a recall than they will ever make from the iPhone 4. It would cost billions of dollars and the price goes up with every phone they sell.

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By sebmel on 7/22/2010 7:32:07 PM , Rating: 1
"You're buying into Job's snow job"

No, I'm not. I said the iPhone is worse... and using the bumper makes in ordinary.

Those are AnandTech's measurements:

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By maverick85wd on 7/17/2010 12:34:47 PM , Rating: 5
[blind faith] is a very, very powerful thing.

fixed that for ya.

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By icanhascpu on 7/18/2010 4:25:27 PM , Rating: 1
Blind eh? Is that why Apple fans like Anand went into detail about this issue before you twits knew what was going on?

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By Mitch101 on 7/18/2010 8:46:46 PM , Rating: 5
Yup thats why all the people in my company with iPhones have to walk outside the building to get a signal but all our blackberries in the office work without a hitch.

Yet management is dumb enough to want iPhones on the corporate network?

Hello stupid management thats all I need is your dumb ass to complain your missing meeting, calls, Instant messages, and important information, because you too stupid to notice even yourself that you need to stand outside our office to get a signal when the blackberry devices work in every one of our conference rooms. So you want to take something thats working and make it crap or even worse our problems. Get a clue management.

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By maverick85wd on 7/18/2010 9:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
I said nothing about whether or not Apple is worth following or not. I love a few of their products, I just refuse to buy their phones or computers because of their business practices. Instances like this where engineers were ignored for aesthetic reasons only drive home why someone may choose not to buy Apple products.

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By chrnochime on 7/17/2010 11:25:37 PM , Rating: 5
This is more fitting:

No never underestimate the idiocy of Apple loyalists.

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By mstrmac on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
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By PandaBear on 7/19/2010 8:52:25 PM , Rating: 1
If you have to hold it in awkward position, that's not a good trade off.

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By Tony Swash on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
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By Chaser on 7/18/2010 1:39:45 AM , Rating: 5
why does it matter so much too you that other people do buy iphones and like them?

What does the article need for comprehension here? Two factors: Apple's ridiculous arrogance of drawing competitors into a public/press briefing on poor antenna performance and the blind arrogance of the majority of iPhone buyers. Most don't care about the antenna problem. They simply want to carry around their logo and will do so even with a poor performing product. Lets keep in mind here Consumer Reports pulled their recommendation for the iPhone 4. But that wont stop Jobs from slamming competitors with unfounded bullshit and his pathetic excuse nor will it impact the blind, faithful sheep from buying iPhones off the shelves.

A product flub like this hurts the entire industry. And Job's usual sanctimonious response is shameless.

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By themaster08 on 7/18/2010 4:55:54 AM , Rating: 5
It's not so much the actual antenna issue that bothers me per se. It's the way that Apple have acted during this entire debacle.

First of all, Apple knew about this problem a year ago. One of their antenna experts warned them that this could happen (I'm sure you've seen the DT article). So to still go ahead with the flawed antenna design knowing that it will cause issues is absolutely unjustifiable.

In our stores, 80% of the iPhone 3GS users walked out with a case. iPhone 4 has a radically new design. None of the old cases fit. Since we didn't show it to anybody, none of the new cases were ready, and we can't make enough bumper cases. So in our stores, only 20% of people are going out with a case, and I think that has something to do with this disparity
- Steve Jobs during the press conference.

That firstly proves that Apple were well aware that this issue existed, and secondly, it proved that Apple had absolutely no intention of doing anything about it.

Bearing in mind Jobs's comment, Apple were clinging to the hope that every iPhone 4 user would buy a bumper or case, and thus suffer no attenuation problems.

Obviously, it didn't work out that way, and the antenna issue was brought to light almost immediately after the iPhone 4 was released.

Now between trying to justify the issue by claiming only a small amount of users are experiencing this issue, and claiming that all smartphones have weak spots, blaming their signal bar formula, and deleting complaints from their message boards, a month later, Apple finally hold a press conference in an attempt to play down the issue.

Apple's reaction and resolution to this problem has been absolutely dire. There's absolutely no justification in supporting such a terrible display of resolve.

You can compare this issue to as many other examples as you like if it helps you to sleep at night. You can also keep asking "will this affect iPhone sales?" But the fact of the matter is, Apple knew of this problem long before the iPhone 4 was released, and long enough to address the issue and change the antenna. There's no proof those other manufacturers were aware of attenuation problems. If you want to give your money to that kind of company then feel free to do so.

Apple had absolutely no intention of even mentioning this known issue, only to sell bumpers in the hopes that this issue will never come to light. Only it has come to light, and Apple were caught with their pants down.

Holding a press conference a month after the iPhone 4 was released is absolutely unacceptable. My theory is that Apple needed a month to prepare Jobs's speech in order for him to play down and circumvent the actual issue. He achieved that, and people like you will continue to purchase the products his company make. Whether they are faulty or not. Now you wonder why we call you blind?

RE: (Sigh)
By robinthakur on 7/19/2010 10:35:15 AM , Rating: 2
I do hear what you're saying and I'm personally rather pissed off at Apple's ridiculously arrogant stance here, the time it took them to admit the problem and the amount of cover-up that went on and basically how long it took to admit that they had made a mistake.

At the same time, You can't cite the antenna expert quoted by Daily Tech, as evidence that Apple knew this problem existed for over a year, because this statement has never been substantiated. This came from a source close to the engineer in question, not from him and he was not exactly under oath, its just hearsay and conjecture at this point which happens to chime with the current mood. Both the engineer and Apple refused to comment.

At the same time, I think the problem has been blown out of all proportion by a vocal minority that want to see Apple fail and have been waiting for this moment of weakness for a long time. This includes the ccompetitors that Apple completely sidelined since the launch of the original iPhone like Nokia, Samsung and HTC who all have a very large axe to grind thanks to Apple sueing and counter sueing them. At the end of the day even with the problem, its still the best Smartphone on the market and I wouldn't want any other phone right now, which should tell you (as i'm most definitely not a blind Apple follower) that its not actually that big an issue on a day-to-day basis (the way i hold the phone).

Nobody is saying that you can't make phone calls with it. I've dropped maybe two calls since I've had it (3 weeks) and only when I was gripping it very tightly right over the join. Its unacceptable that it made it to market with this fault and Apple should be chastized for it, but let's be reasonable here, its got the best screen, best camera overall (this takes into account the software, Facetime and the hardware), IOS4 (multi-tasking still annoys me though) the biggest installed userbase and app-store. It is still the phone that most people want and the one that still makes them queue for hours (in the UK at least) so let's not get hysterical here.

RE: (Sigh)
By icanhascpu on 7/18/10, Rating: -1
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By neogrin on 7/19/2010 11:58:40 AM , Rating: 2

Yep you are right. DT made it look like a Big Problem, all by themselves.

The ten+ pages of results when I search for "iPhone Antenna Issue" must be my imagination.

Yes they are giving away free that they have been backed into a corner...but don't you think they should have fixed the problem A YEAR AGO when they first learned of it?

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By nugundam93 on 7/19/2010 1:13:54 PM , Rating: 2
you sir deserve a 6.

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By dtm4trix on 7/17/2010 8:42:02 AM , Rating: 5
Microsoft could have a field day with this

This is so true. Whats Apple's motto? It just works? Well if MS was smart they would just hammer this.

RE: (Sigh)
By Ted Landry on 7/18/10, Rating: -1
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By themaster08 on 7/18/2010 3:41:47 PM , Rating: 5
But Microsoft is no longer a force in computing or cell phones, sometimes people forget that
I guess having ~90% of the computer OS market share and having the fastest and best selling pieces of software ever makes Microsoft "no longer a force"?

Microsoft gave up on Windows Mobile a few months ago to focus all of their efforts on their upcoming Windows Phone 7 OS
Fixed that for you, my delusional friend.

RE: (Sigh)
By Ted Landry on 7/18/10, Rating: -1
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By themaster08 on 7/18/2010 4:55:03 PM , Rating: 5
I said "force" in computing... Microsoft will still be around, just like IBM is still around, but as their marketshare fades away for Apple devices
Haven't you heard? Windows 7 is the fastest selling OS of all time, and absolutely eclipsed the release of Snow Leopard. If that's not a "force" then what on earth is?

Yes, Microsoft continues to shrink, Apple is now growing 34% faster than Windows, so the generational change that everyone dreamed of years ago is happening.
Growing 34% faster when you have ~5% of the global market share is hardly spectacular. That figure tends to constantly fluctuate and as a result Apple's global market share usually stands at ~5%. Wake me up when Apple achieve even 10% of the global market share.

So let's all be glad Microsoft can no longer harm society's productivity
I guess they're really harming society with their Building Schools for the Future, the vast amount of curriculum resources including their IT academy, the .NET framework, Visual Studio as well as many other tools/resources in an absolutely massive array of benefits to socitey.

Where's Apple's alternatives? Microsoft go far deeper than consumer-oriented, aesthetically pleasing gadgets that tech illiterate consumers can have fun with.

You can get started here:

No thanks. Give me Visual Studio any day.

RE: (Sigh)
By Denigrate on 7/19/2010 9:21:08 AM , Rating: 1
Don't feed the trolls, socks, or what ever you want to call it.

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By MScrip on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
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By Rookierookie on 7/17/2010 10:52:39 AM , Rating: 5
You think Apple never killed failed product lines?

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By rudy on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
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By Motoman on 7/17/2010 12:33:56 PM , Rating: 5
Maybe he's one of the 5 people who bought an Apple Newton. Or Apple TV. Or a Pippin.

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By Wolfpup on 7/17/2010 7:44:07 PM , Rating: 2
I actually bought a Pippin LOL

I just don't get this iPhone thing...why didn't they just put rubber or whatever around the outside of the phone? Have the antenna below that?

Seems like Steve Jobs' Apple always puts form over function, and this is yet another example (as are things like not even having volume controls on the first iPod touch...although neither does the Zune HD! Bad enough they don't have hardware play/pause buttons.)

As much as I hate this, and hate Apple's closed, proprietary nature, I still want an iPhone more than any other phone, as it does media and spreadsheets as good or better than other current platforms, so...

RE: (Sigh)
By nikon133 on 7/18/2010 6:24:38 PM , Rating: 2
Nah, they just proclaim the "a hobby".

Guess iPhone 4 will become one of the biggest hobbies in the world...

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By cditty on 7/17/2010 11:02:35 AM , Rating: 3
I had an iPhone 4. Got one of the first ones. Not only was I dropping calls, my wi-fi was cut in half (even right by the router), and every call I made ended up on speaker or me dialing because it couldn't tell it was still by my face. The 3G or 3GS never did that. I wanted that phone for the camera (I take lots of pics/videos of my daughter). That part of the phone works GREAT... However, I need to make a phone call (novel idea) from time to time. They did send me a bumper and their customer service was great. I replaced it with a Nexus One/Froyo phone. After a day, I am pretty used to it (kinda of like the way I cross use windows/mac). I do love the way it integrates with my google world.

Long post, I know. I am a realist. They WILL redesign and fix this and release it next year. I will be out of contract and get it cheap, because I still think Apple offers a better user experience. The nexus holds its value pretty well and at least I know it has the horsepower to run Gingerbread and will probably get it first, since Google considers it a DEV phone.

RE: (Sigh)
By micksh on 7/17/2010 6:14:07 PM , Rating: 2
They WILL redesign and fix this and release it next year.

Rumors are - in the end of September, this year. Just when free bumper promotion ends.
This will be a minor hardware revision, just antenna fix. It will be advertised as "we care about customers a lot and our geniuses came up with design improvement".

RE: (Sigh)
By StevoLincolnite on 7/17/2010 11:59:22 AM , Rating: 5
When was Microsoft's press conference explaining why they KILLED the Kin phones? Microsoft made a phone so bad... they stopped selling it after 2 months.

The "Kin" was not a main product line, it was to test the waters with a product geared towards social networking.

However, the Kin was a great phone for what it was targeted for, it was the price that ultimately killed it in my opinion.

Apple made a "faulty" product that bloggers, and only 2% of real people have a problem with.

List of Apple failures:
1) Mac Portable. - 16 pounds, several inches thick and a screen that was often un-readable.

2) Apple Pippin, gaming console. - In regular Apple fashion it was extremely expensive and sold bugger all units, essentially a Mac in a different box with hardly any developer support.

3) OS9. - Bad Multi-tasking and bad performance, I would say it was the Windows ME of the MacOS world.

4) Apple 3. - Apple in all it's wisdom decided to throw out the idea of functionality and practicality for aesthetics, the results was a system where everything was so tightly packed there was no room for enough heat sinks and fans to keep the system cool, the end result was the system had a habit of warping floppy disks and the motherboard.

Then you can't forget about yellowing screens, the iPhone 4, exploding batteries (They didn't manage to beat Sony in that department though.)

Sure Microsoft has had it's fair sure of PROBLEMS, but seriously, EVERY company has a bad product at one stage or another, Apple has made it's fair share of issues in the past just like EVERY other tech company.

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By sprockkets on 7/17/10, Rating: 0
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By Obujuwami on 7/17/10, Rating: 0
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By sprockkets on 7/18/10, Rating: 0
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By Azure Sky on 7/17/2010 5:41:24 PM , Rating: 2
um, you did miss a few HORRIBLE apple fails

here are just a few examples of products I was PLAUGED with supporting.

all the pre-imac imac equivalents (power pc badged) where horrible, When I was in highschool the school dist bought a few hundred of them, every class had at least 2, the computer lab had 1 row of them and the rest where old as hell win95 boxes, the mac's never got used because they couldnt print to the network, they couldnt save or access the network properly(even after an apple rep came out to fix them up)

I was CONSTANTLY having to reinstall os7.x on them because they would randomly have issues(known problem of the product line), well to be more accurate, i had to copy the system folder off the os install disk to the mac to fix problems(not user related, I had the test unit that was my system do it after a week of being left on 24/7 and nobody else touched it)

oh and the Performa 6200 series(and its one piece equivalents such as the LC lines....),top-1...

read some of those, saddly I had to deal with pretty much every horrible mac model that came out over the years as I tend to be the only person arount with any experience fixing them, oh yeah that and the fact that even the iTard/iDiot who bought all those mac's for the washougal school district didnt really know how to use them beyond the "it just works" level(how the hell did he get the job as the district head IT guy.....I know 7yo kids who know more about IT, Im not kidding)

Not all apple products are horrible, but they are all IMHO over priced for what you get, and the supports horrible, but what can you expect, like the mac cube apple products are almost always form over function.

RE: (Sigh)
By Ted Landry on 7/18/10, Rating: -1
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By protosv on 7/18/2010 7:58:18 PM , Rating: 2
Today, Apple is far and away the leader in servers, pcs, music, tablets and phones.

Really? Perhaps you could call them a leader in tablets and phones, but servers and PCs? Wow. Just wow.

RE: (Sigh)
By icanhascpu on 7/18/2010 4:21:30 PM , Rating: 1
I used OS 9 for several years. It was in no way close to the horrible crap Windows ME was.

If I had to choose I would say the initial realise of OS X was about as close as you get to ME quality. No support no drivers extremely slow on the hardware back then lots of program freezes. OS 9 was the last great classical OS.

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By masada on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
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By Ted Landry on 7/18/10, Rating: -1
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By themaster08 on 7/18/2010 3:33:02 PM , Rating: 5
But keep in mind everything you use today in tech was because Steve Jobs brought it to the world
This deserves a -10 at the very least.

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By neogrin on 7/19/2010 12:15:06 PM , Rating: 2
But keep in mind everything you use today in tech was because Steve Jobs brought it to the world. You wouldn't even be reading this message without Steve's NeXT machine don't forget.

Dear God, do you actually believe that?

...Oh, I know, you just forgot to use the /sarcasm tag. Man, you had me going there. For a sec I though you were a complete tard

RE: (Sigh)
By KeypoX on 7/18/2010 10:21:17 PM , Rating: 2
wanna make your self really sick? Goto any mac forum and read the comments, they all hail Jobs as a hero after the announcement.

My favorite part:

Q: I can't get my Bold to drop right now, maybe you can show me how to do it?
Steve: You may not see it in certain areas.

RE: (Sigh)
By AlexWade on 7/17/2010 8:50:43 AM , Rating: 5
Apple's response was very juvenile. "But but but .... Blackberry does it too!" In short, Apple was caught with the hand in the cookie jar and tried to deflect the blame instead of admitting the truth. And even then, Apple tried to downplay the incident. Just say "We screwed up and we are sorry. To make it right, here is a free case." The fanboys won't love you any less if you admit a mistake and you'll win brownie points with the rest of the world.

I did notice that Steve Jobs said the phone only dropped slightly more calls than the iPhone 3GS. That is funny, considering the iPhone had trouble with 'phone' part.

RE: (Sigh)
By icanhascpu on 7/18/2010 4:33:48 PM , Rating: 1
Do you seriously think the people that hate this company would of cared if Apple came out with good PR in cases like this?

Understand something, there are rabid apple lovers that in reality do not make up 100% of their user-base, and their are rabid apple haters that I know do not make up 100% of Droid fans.

Both of these camps do not reach to logic for their arguments. They do not buy what the best product for them is, they are fanboys of their respective brand. Most of the people here hate apple because 1. Mick trained you. 2. Apple PR is pompus. 3. Disability to really put issues like this in prospective (see#1)

Lets play you with numbers. 3GS dropped 1 in 100 calls. The i4 drops 2 in 100 calls. MY GOD THAT 100% MORE DROPPED CALLS. Nevermind that that is nowhere near bad, just be lead on by the numbers and the 'articles' here rather than deal with pesky prospective and reality.

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By Tony Swash on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
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By Scabies on 7/17/2010 11:43:56 AM , Rating: 5
as mentioned above, Apple users will gladly buy a lemon, knowing its a lemon, if it's this years hot new thing to be seen at Starbucks with.

Regardless, the design and the side effects of having this external antenna was an embarrassing blunder, even if Pirks remains a believer. Deflecting blame and pointing fingers while saying "they screw up too" is shameful for a company that insists their stuff "just works" every time.

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By Tony Swash on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
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By chick0n on 7/18/2010 12:18:14 AM , Rating: 2
As pussy as Apple, u seriously think that they will admit anything serious ?

They're not even man enough to admit "yeah we fucked up on iPhone4" jesus. they said blah blah blah 2% blah blah, yeahhhhhhh.

Keep defending all you want, Fanboy, just keep buying overpriced Garbage all you want :)

RE: (Sigh)
By amanojaku on 7/17/2010 12:00:05 PM , Rating: 3
So these instructions from Nokia giving instructions as to how hold your phone so as to not cause loss of signal are fakes?
That's not what the manual says.
Contact with antennas affects the communication quality and may cause the device to operate at a higher power level than otherwise needed and may reduce battery life.
How does "higher power level" and "may reduce battery life" become "loss of signal"? The reason the iPhone 4 is unique in loosing its signal is because the antenna is completely unshielded. Other phones have shielded antennas, so contact with the antenna has a less detrimental effect.

There are two things going on with the the iPhone antenna. The first is that humans are a big sack of salt water, and salt water attenuates radio waves. Fortunately, we're thin enough that enough of a signal can pass through a person, but the attenuation results in higher power draw on the antenna. Obviously, enough body mass will completely block the signal. That's what Nokia is warning you against.

The second is that humans, like all animals, generate an electromagnetic field. This field interferes with unshielded antennas. Find a TV with rabbit ears, or an old radio and touch the antenna. No matter how long the antenna is your EM field will be enough to affect the signal. The engineer pointed this out: you must have a shielded antenna. Incidentally, that's one of the things the bumper does. Go figure Apple wants you to buy them.

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By Tony Swash on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
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By Camikazi on 7/17/2010 1:22:15 PM , Rating: 2
Nokia's reference is more of a disclaimer for if you happen to hold the phone in a way that 90% of the world does not. Nokia at least did the smart thing and put the antennas in an area where people will not normally bridge the gaps. Apple in all their "wisdom" placed their antenna in the spot where most everyone will hold them all because they wanted to get a lower SAR rating on them.

What Nokia did was more like putting a "Caution Coffee can Burn if Spilled" warning on their phone, while Apple put "For Hottest Coffee Flip Cup Over" on theirs.

RE: (Sigh)
By Tony Swash on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
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By Camikazi on 7/18/2010 1:26:55 PM , Rating: 1
Yes all antenna have problems when you cover them, that is obvious, but pretty much every company in the WORLD puts their antenna in a place where it will not get covered and cause the least amount of problems. Apple on the other hand put it DIRECTLY where people touch the most instead of being smart and moving it to a lesser covered area. Those disclaimers are for the very small minority of people who hold their phone in a way that covers the antenna, unlike Apples which affects everyone. Most intelligent companies would make their product affect the least amount of their customers, Apple decided to say, "screw the customers let's go for lower SAR rating and make us look superior".

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By BillyBatson on 7/17/2010 2:37:31 PM , Rating: 2
totally agree!!!!!

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By Ted Landry on 7/18/10, Rating: 0
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By themaster08 on 7/18/2010 3:30:20 PM , Rating: 2
I doubt anyone sees Steve or Apple as arrogant
Sorry, but are you being sarcastic?

RE: (Sigh)
By CrazyBernie on 7/18/2010 9:11:36 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, absolutely... Steve Jobs is the most humble individual I've ever seen.



wtf? 9700 has problems?
By angryplayer on 7/17/2010 11:56:09 AM , Rating: 3
News to me. The 9700 is our company standard for a BB. We have about 150 deployed over the past 4 months. No one's complained about poor quality or any dropped calls. So far, that's less than... 0.7% and decreasing everyday.

RE: wtf? 9700 has problems?
By Ted Landry on 7/18/10, Rating: 0
RE: wtf? 9700 has problems?
By themaster08 on 7/18/2010 3:29:07 PM , Rating: 3
yes, and the iPhone 4 is less than 0.55%
...and has been released for around a month.

Let's wait a little longer and see if that figure changes as more time goes by and more people purchase iPhone 4s. Comparing it to the iPhone 3GS that has around 10x as many users is hardly accountable data.

so it's good that Apple explained the iPhone 4 is the best in the world and other smartphones have far more problems.
I don't recall Jobs ever mentioning "far more problems" during Apple's press conference. He focussed on antenna issues and nothing more.

I guess by far more problems you mean yellowing screens, Bluetooth, WiFi and accelerometer issues that iPhone 4 users are also experiencing?

Lots of Apple love going around.
By Mitch101 on 7/18/2010 8:35:38 PM , Rating: 3
Companies Apple has teed off
Adobe (Lazy and HTML 5)
Dell (Ads comparing Apple wiring to Dell)
Google (Dont be Evil)
Microsoft (ADS but lately they backed off when Microsoft fired back with cheap PC ads)
Nokia (Antenna gate)
RIM (Antenna gate)

Apple on screwing the Consumer
Apple NVIDIA issues (Bumpgate) - Cranked up fans so #machines would make it till out of warranty. - HP and others recalled and replaced laptops that had a similar issue instead of covering up the issue.
Apple Laptop hard drive issue. - Bios update that killed performance because they couldn't correct the compatibility issue.
Coverup on exploding batteries. - Gag orders issued or no replacements.
Yellowing monitors. - Poor manufacturing.
iPhone 4 design issue - Giving away rubber bands instead of a recall.

What amazes me is how Steve Jobs convinces the consumer to tolerate this behavior. I think its partially because their consumer base doesn't want to admit the grass isn't greener in Apple land. The answer is simple Apple consumers are not willing to admit they were wrong.

Lemme tell you about a real company - My Epson 1080P projector - My Projector bulb died 6 months after purchase with 600 hours on the bulb. When you first get a projector you watch everything on it. The bulbs are rated to last up to 4000 hours - Epson replaced the $300 bulb free of charge they fedexed it to me with 2 day delivery. When It began to have a problem with the display they sent me a new projector overnight delivery free of charge and paid for all shipping of my original projector back to them. I will forever buy Epson products because the company recognized I was having a problem and went above and beyond to make it right. Apple would have sent me a lens cap that would have covered a portion of the image and told me how their product is the best they every produced. Epson never once gave me a hard time or sales pitch they admitted it was a fault with their product and made good on it. With Apple your holding it wrong.

If you have Apple stock and your holding it. Your wrong. The reality distortion bubble is about to burst.

RE: Lots of Apple love going around.
By The0ne on 7/21/2010 11:55:05 AM , Rating: 2
Trust me, my two coworkers here will not bend EVEN if hell froze over. One is a Sr Software Engineer and the other our VP of Engineering; both very smart in general. I've given up asking myself why they are such devoted supporter of Apple. It's like asking someone why they believe in God.

Best to just shake your head and walk slowly away. There is absolutely no amount of information, including technical details, that will convince them. This video shows exactly how my two co-workers are when the word "Apple" comes up.

Here is Steve Jobs.
By dark matter on 7/17/2010 4:02:16 PM , Rating: 2
Watch this video, it's steve Jobs doing a press conference.

The SHOW must go on.

When I see someone with an iPhone........
By jabber on 7/18/2010 7:59:51 AM , Rating: 1
...I immediately deduct 50 IQ points from them.

They just plummet in my expectations as a human.

Their phone almost becomes their replacement for a personality.

Shame thats how its come about.

By DeathBooger on 7/18/2010 4:39:43 PM , Rating: 1
You better not get an iPhone then. Your IQ would be in the negative.

By PAPutzback on 7/19/2010 9:26:40 AM , Rating: 2
IT is the Swiss Army knife of phones. GPS, camera, camcorder, portable gaming device, flashlight, phonebook, eReader. And it makes great phone calls if you need something like that.

App store numbers are bullshit. Anyone that has ever gone to an app store will tell you that there are five apps that do the same thing. If Apple has 100,000 apps I'd say you could divide that by 5 to find the unique and useful apps. Android is the same way. And developers aren't stupid. If they have an app selling well for one platform they are going to make it for the others.

So it basically comes down to the phone needing to work when you need it. Go EVO. And I don't doubt the Heros and Incredible on the other carriers are just as good.

Antennas people!
By Bruneauinfo on 7/17/2010 7:24:56 PM , Rating: 1
not defending anyone here, but keep some perspective. we're reading an article about antennas and a bunch of egotistical CEOs going back and forth about their antennas. we're actually rallying around this discussion. 10 years ago we didn't have discussions about antennas. we had pagers and no internet.

Oh yeah?
By ViewRoyal on 7/18/2010 2:07:48 PM , Rating: 1
RIM & Nokia have responded to the evidence presented at the press conference as being false, and that they don't have similar reception dropout problems.

Now who is not telling the truth?

Check out this YouTube video posted by a disgruntled Nokia mobile phone owner. This video was posted just a couple of weeks before the iPhone 4 went on sale:

Then there's this one with a RIM phone:

Fighting back hard?
By ralniv on 7/17/10, Rating: 0
Apple slams the liars...
By Ted Landry on 7/18/10, Rating: -1
RE: Apple slams the liars...
By themaster08 on 7/18/2010 3:16:34 PM , Rating: 2
It's good that Apple had the balls to show the world all other smartphones have the same problem
Only after their own phone was exposed to have the same problem, in an absolutely dire attempt to justify their own shortcomings.

Yes, all phones have attenuation problems when you grip the phone where the antenna is situated. That can't be helped. However, not all phones have their antenna situated where you would naturally hold the device. Usually phones will have 2 antennas to help to prevent this issue. So to say that all smartphones have this issue is just plain incorrect.

Let's remember here that Apple were made aware of this issue a year ago. They sold bumpers in the hopes that every (or at least most) iPhone 4 customers would purchase one and thus allow for the issue to go unnoticed.

Now that Apple are caught with their pants down, they try to justify it by saying "oh well they did it as well", like some 7 year old getting told off by the teacher at school.

Great stuff!

RE: Apple slams the liars...
By CrazyBernie on 7/18/2010 9:06:45 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm... I don't know which is worse, the fact that you're applauding what is obviously blame-deflecting bullshit, or the fact that you're giving a link to the bullshitter's website.

RE: Apple slams the liars...
By justjc on 7/19/2010 8:45:03 PM , Rating: 1
Actually the problems with the competitors phones didn't annoy the users as much.

At least not in the case of the HTC Droid Eris. According to the complaints about the Eris antenna/signal was approximately .016% of customers.

To put things into perspective I have calculated the number of users who would call costumer service because of antenna/signal issues for each 10,000 phones sold. For the iPhone 4 the number is 550, for the Eris only 16.

In other terms if you meet a iPhone 4 owner he/she is 34 times more likely to have complained about bad reception, than the users of one of the handpicked competitors... I would say that Apples problem isn't the same, it's bigger!

I guess there is no need for me to link to a vid showing a iPhone loosing signal ;-P

Two things:
By wolrah on 7/17/10, Rating: -1
RE: Two things:
By wolrah on 7/17/2010 8:29:42 AM , Rating: 2
It seems Apple is redirecting outside links to the WWDC video, nevermind on #1 you do have the correct link.

RE: Two things:
By Brandon Hill on 7/17/2010 8:39:13 AM , Rating: 5
To point 2, if you actually read Nokia's response they acknowledge the issue and talk about how they get around it in their third paragraph...

RE: Two things:
By wolrah on 7/17/2010 12:11:45 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah that's what I get for reading news posts when sleep deprived and freshly awakened by the boss. Upon a reread I pretty much failed overall with my post.

RE: Two things:
By Shadowself on 7/18/2010 2:46:25 PM , Rating: 1
NOWHERE does either company say that the videos of tests of non iPhone systems are not true. They obfuscate and say they spend lots of time and money investigating this.

They NEVER say Apple's portrayals of Nokia and RIM phones are false.

Nokia even gets redunant in their statement of "Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying..." since they have nothing real to say.

Nokia and RIM are just as guilty of dancing around the issue as Apple. Damn them all!

RE: Two things:
By Daniel8uk on 7/17/2010 10:13:07 AM , Rating: 1
You go man, tell them that unsere F├╝hrer is right and that all others are wrong and infidels and shall die, or buy an Apple product and thus be saved when the mighty hand of Jobs reaches down from the heavens* and smites every last non-believer.

Let it be known that Nokia, RIM and any other infidel shout for false prophets, they call for sin and all things evil, only the fruity symbol is pure!

*Apple headquarters.

RE: Two things:
By jkostans on 7/17/2010 11:07:52 AM , Rating: 2
It's just you

RE: Two things:
By Scabies on 7/17/2010 11:52:03 AM , Rating: 2
but for RIM and Nokia to respond as if their phones were magic and defied normal RF behavior just pisses me off.

I read it as "we settled on a design that would make for acceptable use in 95% of hand-held scenarios"

however, as I understand it, the iPhone 4 issue is not related to flesh blocking transmissions as much as it is shorting out the antenna by skin contact.

In Apple's test shots of competitor phones, they highlight the area of the phone that contains the antenna, then when they demonstrate signal droop they hold it in a way that specifically covers that area as opposed to using an identical grip with all products. This above all keeps me from buying into their conclusion.

RE: Two things:
By cmdrdredd on 7/17/2010 12:38:39 PM , Rating: 2
In Apple's test shots of competitor phones, they highlight the area of the phone that contains the antenna, then when they demonstrate signal droop they hold it in a way that specifically covers that area as opposed to using an identical grip with all products. This above all keeps me from buying into their conclusion.

Yep! That's what I saw too. Also, I am surprised more people don't use bluetooth headsets these days.

RE: Two things:
By leexgx on 7/18/2010 10:12:22 AM , Rating: 2
most phone makers you have to take the case off to touch the antenna to begin with to make the 20dBa loss happen

also most companies from what i have seen the antenna is at the top of the phone (sure there was news or comment about most Phones now use it at the bottom seem not ture)

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