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Major Internet service outages in Egypt and India caused by cut fiber optic cables

A pair of undersea cables near the Egyptian port of Alexandria was accidentally ruptured this morning, leading to loss of Internet services for some parts of the Middle East. Speculation says that the cables were unintentionally cut by a ships anchor.

Bad weather could have caused ships in the area to need to drop anchor and sabotage is not suspected at this time.

U.S. based Verizon is part owner of the cables and told the Financial Times it had not yet determined the cause of the cable breakage. A spokesperson says, “We have seen some ships going through an area dragging their anchors.”

The outage led Tarek Amer, Egypt’s deputy central bank governor to say, “We are disappointed [with] the service and will consider alternatives for the banking system if this happens again.”

Reports from India claim Internet bandwidth has been reduced 50-60%, but officials say that a degraded service will be available soon. According to Verizon is could take days to fix the damaged cables since ships have to be dispatched and then find the cables and make repairs to them.

Local media in both Egypt and India encourage users to reduce Internet traffic to a minimum. 

A new and supposedly disaster-proof fiber optic cable is under construction to provide access between the U.S. and Asia with a cost reported to be near $500 million USD.  New cables use different shielding techniques and sheer at designated points in the event of an anchor collision. 


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Erm?
By Pezman37 on 1/31/2008 4:24:07 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
"The outage led Tarek Amer, Egypt’s deputy central bank governor to say, “We are disappointed [with] the service and will consider alternatives for the banking system if this happens again.”


How is it the ISP's fault ships drag their anchors around? One could say that it's their fault for not proofing the cable against this sort of thing. But it costs money to better insulate the cables and I wonder if Egypt or India would have paid it. Either way they should be more "disappointed" with their shipping industry should that prove to be the case.




RE: Erm?
By James Holden on 1/31/2008 4:28:26 PM , Rating: 5
I'll used to work on NSFNet. This really is the cable provider's fault. Verizon or whoever took a risk by not laying two cables in a hazard or shallow water area. Off the shore of the US, you see 30 - 40 cables hitting an offshore node.

The article didn't mention where this cable was cut. I'm guessing it was in a shipping lane though.

The bank looks like they got caught with their pants down too. In the U.S. any financial institution usually have several backups; one of which is always HughesNet Satellite.


RE: Erm?
By othercents on 1/31/2008 6:37:47 PM , Rating: 2
How do you know that they didn't? Maybe they did and because of increased demand they are using the full bandwidth of both cables and needed to lay a couple more.

I also don't understand how it would be the cable provider's fault if ships are intentionally dragging their anchors. This was probably something unforeseen during the design phase. I wonder if there is a new cable line installed by a competitor recently. Follow the money and you will find the person responsible.

Other


RE: Erm?
By Ratwar on 2/1/2008 2:28:48 AM , Rating: 1
If the cable provider said, "We'll give you such and such bandwidth 24/7" and they fail to deliver on that promise, it is their fault. If it wasn't foreseen in the design phase it is still the cable designers fault, as they did the design.


RE: Erm?
By SlyNine on 2/2/2008 2:21:57 AM , Rating: 2
Dude force majeure, some things cannot be prevented and we cannot sit here and point the finger and blame every one.


RE: Erm?
By Pezman37 on 2/1/2008 1:57:43 AM , Rating: 3
I guess then the question that pops into my head is, can it really still be the ISP's fault? Redundancy costs money, and we don't know yet if those countries even wanted to pay for it. So could could still not be their fault, however if the company cut corners on it's own, then yes, they have good reason to be mad.

There are still countries in the world using windows 3.1 in their government offices. If some people can save money, they will, even in the face of a much greater loss. Few if any governments know what they are doing. Although Al Gore did invent the internet, so that comment made us look smart, right?


RE: Erm?
By Pezman37 on 2/1/2008 2:06:55 AM , Rating: 2
it could* = could could, I shouldn't post when I'm tired, and it would seem a great many shouldn't post when they are racist.


RE: Erm?
By wien on 1/31/2008 4:34:25 PM , Rating: 5
I think the problem is that a single point of failure could bring down internet service. One would think they had some redundancy in place to prevent stuff like this. In fact, that is the entire point of the internet as it was designed; to provide alternate routes for traffic should one route disappear.


RE: Erm?
By lompocus on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Erm?
By wien on 1/31/2008 6:54:06 PM , Rating: 5
Wow, the mere mention of the middle east and all you poor sods are falling over yourselves trying to flaunt your ignorance. How do you even get out of the house in the morning without tripping over your xenophobia?


RE: Erm?
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Erm?
By TomZ on 1/31/2008 7:53:51 PM , Rating: 4
Who appointed you as the spokesman for America? In a word, you're full of sh!t.

We need more allies, not fewer. Isolationism has never worked out well for America or the rest of the world. Just look at the history.


RE: Erm?
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Erm?
By TomZ on 1/31/2008 8:15:12 PM , Rating: 4
WTF are you talking about? Are you high, stoned, or drunk? England is a great ally and friend of ours - more than any other nation.


RE: Erm?
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Erm?
By mars777 on 2/1/2008 4:50:21 AM , Rating: 3
I'll give you a reason:

- Brain degeneration


RE: Erm?
By jtemplin on 1/31/2008 11:36:09 PM , Rating: 2
eye smite seems to enjoy being a jerk. i've had an unfortunate encounter too o.0


RE: Erm?
By TomZ on 1/31/2008 11:49:19 PM , Rating: 1
Sometimes it's fun to feed the trolls. :o)


RE: Erm?
By jtemplin on 2/1/2008 12:02:26 AM , Rating: 2
Oh how right you are =D Wheres the popcorn emoticon??


RE: Erm?
By logaldinho on 2/1/08, Rating: 0
RE: Erm?
By elgoliath on 2/1/2008 1:09:05 PM , Rating: 1
lol, you are right, but so, so wrong. Isolationism probably would have prevented 9/11 (tho some evidence suggests it was an internal job) because that means we would have been keeping our noses out of other people's business. They don't hate our 'free' market. They don't hate our rights. Only ignorance believes that they do- do you really believe everything the nut-job administration tells you?? They are pissed at us because of the situation WE created over there. We funded Al Queda. We trained them and gave them their weapons. We were even allied with Saddam (news flash- he didn't have any connections with the terrorists- one more lie georgie). They hate 'us' because we used them until we got what we wanted then dropped them like a bad habit. And then we base large amounts of our military there and now we are trying to force social and regime change through violence and fear instead of the proper channels. They hate us because we are so extremely hypocritical it's not even funny.

And yes, I'm sure they are still a bit pissed about Israel. More than just the land that is now Israel took part in WWII on the side of the Axis forces, yet that land is the one chosen to be stolen from the inhabitants- we had no right to do that. It's funny that Germany, the one that started the war and did the most harm to the Jew's, was not created as the Jewish state but rather given a proverbial slap on the wrist while people thousands of miles away have to give up their homes and land. Tell me again why they are pissed at us?


RE: Erm?
By Durrr on 2/1/2008 4:37:28 PM , Rating: 2
We didnt offer up Israel to the jews, rather, they chose it and the UN recognized it as a state.


RE: Erm?
By SlyNine on 2/2/2008 2:27:58 AM , Rating: 2
I love this, Tell one lie to counter another

"We funded Al Queda"

"We were even allied with Saddam (news flash- he didn't have any connections with the terrorists- one more lie georgie). "

Like you would know anything about Saddams connections. Or his sons meeting with Al Queda leaders weekly.


RE: Erm?
By lompocus on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Erm?
By AntDX316 on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Erm?
By gaakf on 2/1/2008 7:48:49 AM , Rating: 2
Eye smite.... Do you realize that every single post of yours except one has been rated down this month?

Your patriotism is blinded. It seems as though you justify everything the United States does that is morally wrong, and you have shown yourself to be prejudice on statements you made about Muslims in earlier posts.

You take out the fun of reading Dailytech with you nonsensical "reality" posts. Please try to be more worldly in your thinking for future posts.


RE: Erm?
By geddarkstorm on 2/1/2008 12:01:07 PM , Rating: 2
He must be shooting for a record.


RE: Erm?
By TomZ on 1/31/2008 7:28:53 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
They are low-end worthless countries that lost internet. Why should you BOTHER to make a runaround for them?

I appreciate your right to express your views. Now I'll express mine: that is the most bigoted, asinine statement I've seen posted here in a long time.


RE: Erm?
By Ringold on 1/31/2008 8:09:41 PM , Rating: 5
I agree, especially when it's these "low-end worthless countries" that happen to be investing billions of dollars in America, creating jobs and furthering our own prosperity.

Some folk don't realize what side their bread is buttered on.


RE: Erm?
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Erm?
By TomZ on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Erm?
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: 0
RE: Erm?
By spluurfg on 1/31/2008 11:31:34 PM , Rating: 2
I too would look forward to an explanation on how Walmart could survive bringing jobs back to the US, since they are a US retailer with a US market and US distribution network. I would be especially be curious about the beginning of that explanation which would explain why Walmart would have outsourced workers to begin with.

In terms of manufacturing or services dependent corporations which outsource their production or services, it's rather simple -- if they don't, their competitors will, and thus offer products or services at significantly lower prices. This tends to be bad for business.


RE: Erm?
By TomZ on 1/31/08, Rating: 0
RE: Erm?
By spluurfg on 2/1/2008 6:50:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I never stated that Wal-Mart is outsourcing its jobs overseas.


That was exactly the point I was making =)

And Walmart is a retailer -- sure their products are manufactured overseas, but they are other companies' products. Walmart simply aims to sell what customers want. Not that I think megacorporations like Walmart are all warm and fuzzy, but I simply agree that outsourcing overseas doesn't make you the devil.


RE: Erm?
By TomZ on 1/31/2008 11:41:39 PM , Rating: 1
WTF are you talking about? Notice there are two paragraphs in my post. Each paragraph discusses a separate topic, as per the convention in our English language. I did not state that Wal-Mart is outsourcing jobs. I stated that Wal-Mart is helping our economy (largly by importing low-cost consumer goods from Mexico, China, etc.). In my second paragraph, I discussed the separate topic of outsourcing which is a big part of most American company business strategies.

Made in America at Wal-Mart - you MUST BE KIDDING. Go to Wal-Mart sometime and see if you can find anything that was not made in China, LOL!


RE: Erm?
By Ringold on 2/1/2008 11:25:05 AM , Rating: 2
On a related note.. I strongly suspect that WalMart's decision to cut prices by 10-30% on a wide selection of products ahead of the Super Bowl will have a greater economic impact than the "stimulus package" bouncing around in Congress.

It also bodes extremely well for inflation; the fact that they can cut prices despite the weaker dollar is most impressive. Stagflation? Not this year!


RE: Erm?
By geddarkstorm on 2/1/2008 12:14:41 PM , Rating: 2
A weaker dollar is good for exports and doesn't really affect too much within our borders from my understanding (bad if you are going oversees though ;) ). Currency is a balance: you don't want your currency too high or low verses the rest of the world's or you get a trade deficit(too much importing, no exports) or the inability to import respectively. As it is, the levels the dollar is at now seems to be good so far and have increased export trade and lowered our trade deficits (up in Washington state, for instance, Canadians are now the ones coming over the boarder and buying tons of stuff which has really helped the economy in Bellingham).


RE: Erm?
By BansheeX on 2/2/2008 4:19:07 PM , Rating: 2
You've misunderstood the situation. If the weak dollar is good for exports, why are Canadians coming over to buy things here? It's because they're able to buy their own domestic products over here for cheaper than they can in their own country. Because our prices reflect someone taking on our debt stupidly in order to give them to us. But as soon as this practice of their own countrymen coming here and getting a deal that's supposed to only apply to us, they'll stop taking on our debt and raise prices.

Plus, we don't export very much compared to China or other parts of the world. Our economy is now based on borrowing and consuming and for a long time we've been inflating our currency and fooling the world into propping up the dollar as the world standard. America is a burden on the world economy now when we used to be a major productive force. If our phony economy collapses, products that were once going to borrow and spend Americans will start going to the people who made them all in the first place - the Chinese. The standard of living across the world will rise dramatically.


RE: Erm?
By BansheeX on 2/2/2008 4:20:35 PM , Rating: 2
You've misunderstood the situation. If the weak dollar is good for exports, why are Canadians coming over to buy things here? It's because they're able to buy their own domestic products over here for cheaper than they can in their own country. Because our prices reflect someone taking on our debt stupidly in order to give them to us. But as soon as this practice of their own countrymen coming here and getting a deal that's supposed to only apply to us, they'll stop taking on our debt and raise prices.

Plus, we don't export very much compared to China or other parts of the world. Our economy is now based on borrowing and consuming and for a long time we've been inflating our currency and fooling the world into propping up the dollar as the world standard. America is a burden on the world economy now when we used to be a major productive force. If our phony economy collapses, products that were once going to borrow and spend Americans will start going to the people who made them all in the first place - the Chinese. The standard of living across the world will rise dramatically.


RE: Erm?
By spluurfg on 2/3/2008 2:54:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You've misunderstood the situation. If the weak dollar is good for exports, why are Canadians coming over to buy things here? It's because they're able to buy their own domestic products over here for cheaper than they can in their own country.


To me that sounds like a textbook of example of how a weak currency increases exports. E.g. the Chinese Yuan is fixed by their central bank and is generally considered to be held artificially low to sustain their exports. I am not saying whether this is good or bad.

quote:
Plus, we don't export very much compared to China or other parts of the world. Our economy is now based on borrowing and consuming and for a long time we've been inflating our currency and fooling the world into propping up the dollar as the world standard. America is a burden on the world economy now when we used to be a major productive force.


The US exports a lot of services like consulting and financial services. Sure, the velocity of money is very high in the US and there are a lot of problems with borrowing, but the exact opposite isn't very attractive -- take Japan, where even with essentially zero interest rates, capital investment lags the rest of the world. No economy is really perfect, but I somehow doubt the American economy is 'phony', just as I have my doubts on whoever taught you economics.


RE: Erm?
By lompocus on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Erm?
By StevoLincolnite on 1/31/2008 9:31:45 PM , Rating: 1
Israel = The Gods who designed the Pentium M and thus what lead to the Core 2 Duo Today!


RE: Erm?
By SlyNine on 2/2/2008 2:35:25 AM , Rating: 2
And the crappy Willamette core of yesterday. Shudders.


RE: Erm?
By amanojaku on 2/1/2008 3:11:15 PM , Rating: 2
Are you sure about that? Because eye smite's posts to this article are doing a great job being bigoted and asinine.

Leave your bigotry and idiocy at home and off the net, people.


RE: Erm?
By Lastfreethinker on 1/31/2008 7:28:09 PM , Rating: 3
Actually there should be signs and buoys indicating there is an underwater cable. They would also indicate that swimming (if shallow enough) along with anchoring is prohibited in the area (this is how the US Navy found the USSRs underwater cable and was able to tap their phones :)


RE: Erm?
By croc on 2/1/2008 2:55:02 AM , Rating: 2
The article was indeed a bit vague, but IFF Verizon and co. owned both cables, then they are indeed remiss in their deployment plans. Both cables coming into one area, neither properly trenched in, and under possible shipping lanes in ancorage capable depths? How could this deployment plan not be an accident waiting to happen?

I wonder what their SLA is... This could cost quite a bit.


Just one question?
By tjr508 on 1/31/2008 10:59:51 PM , Rating: 5
What really did it? Was it terror or global warming? My bet is FNC claims one, CNN another.




RE: Just one question?
By rcc on 2/1/2008 12:23:07 PM , Rating: 2
Gore says it's the earth expanding due to Global Warming. The cable stretched and broke.


RE: Just one question?
By marvdmartian on 2/1/2008 3:41:51 PM , Rating: 2
Seems more and more it might be a conspiracy:
quote:
MUMBAI, Feb 1 - A third undersea cable has been cut after breaks near Egypt earlier this week disrupted web access in parts of the Middle East and Asia, Indian-owned cable network operator FLAG Telecom said on Friday.
FLAG, a wholly-owned subsidiary of India's number two mobile operator Reliance Communications, said in a statement on its web site its FALCON cable had been reported cut at 0559 GMT, 56 kms (35 miles) from Dubai on a segment between the United Arab Emirates and Oman. (Editing by Paul Bolding)
Copyright 2008 Reuters.


Anyone want to put on their tinfoil hats and join me in blaming the CIA?? I figure they're breaking the cables so they can get their cable repair ships out there, which will "repair" the cables, with maybe a bit of spy splicing going on at the same time. Great way to keep track of the internet in that part of the world, no?? ;)


RE: Just one question?
By TomZ on 2/1/2008 4:28:44 PM , Rating: 1
LOL, that might be true only if you assume that CIA hasn't already tapped off those connections years ago!

After all, the Internet is a public network!


India isnt middle east
By xNIBx on 2/1/2008 9:34:14 AM , Rating: 1
India isnt "middle east". It isnt even near "middle east".

Hell, someone might argue that not even Egypt is "middle east"(most of Egypt is south of Europe). Either way, the term "middle east" is derogatory and a relic of Eurocentrism(and now americans use it for their own propaganda purposes).




RE: India isnt middle east
By TomZ on 2/1/2008 9:41:13 AM , Rating: 1
Instead of being just critical, please tell us a more politically correct term we can use to refer to that region of the world.


RE: India isnt middle east
By Xenoterranos on 2/1/2008 10:15:26 AM , Rating: 2
West Asia?
Perhaps Central Eurasia?
"The area including and around $country_name"

I mean, these continents and countries do have names, right?


RE: India isnt middle east
By crystal clear on 2/1/2008 10:33:16 AM , Rating: 2
Hi Tom,just for information-

India is South Asia,
Egypt for all practical purposes is North Africa or Africa.

UAE is gulf region

The core middle east countries are as follows-

Israel/Jordan/Syria/Lebonen/Iraq/Kuwait/S Arabia.

Iran is not Middle East,it is the Persian gulf region.


RE: India isnt middle east
By XtremeM3 on 2/5/2008 3:16:59 AM , Rating: 2
Since the UAE shares a border with Saudi, I would think it falls under Middle East. Also don't forget about Bahrain and Qatar, both significant ME countries. Yes they may be geographically smaller but quite significant nonetheless.

Jeff


RE: India isnt middle east
By rcc on 2/1/2008 12:21:04 PM , Rating: 2
While you are at it, get the Mid West States renamed. Any moron can look at a map and tell that it's the flippin' Mid East States.


Someone explain this
By bravacentauri83 on 1/31/2008 4:22:01 PM , Rating: 2
Why do they have an underwater cable? I thought there were other means of connecting?




RE: Someone explain this
By James Holden on 1/31/2008 4:29:21 PM , Rating: 2
The major backbones are usually connected underwater. The overland methods are very very high latency since they get routed through various ISPs.


Oh no! The Internets are Down!!
By Orbs on 1/31/2008 7:23:37 PM , Rating: 3
Fhew, it was only the 3rd internet. Internet 7 is where it's at.

I was worried there for a second!




Hmmm...
By Raidin on 1/31/2008 9:14:28 PM , Rating: 3
As an Egyptian, all I can say is... only in Egypt can someone accidentally break the internet!

Inta kasurt el internet, ya ahbell!! I'll let you guys figure that one out.




Look on the Bright Side
By UppityMatt on 1/31/2008 9:30:55 PM , Rating: 3
Maybe this will bring down the Call Centers for HP and Dell! After having to deal with them for 3 hours today i hope they dont have internet for awhile




The Web
By Digimonkey on 1/31/2008 8:55:42 PM , Rating: 2
The fact remains is there was no redundancy.

The bank stated they were going to look for another provider if it happens again, not tomorrow. This is a totally a valid point. If all it takes is one boat anchor to take down a country's business for a few days, chances are businesses will look for another provider that can provide a back up plan.

I work for an ISP, so I understand these complaints. We have backup lines and redundancy for businesses in the same state, so not provide this for whole countries?

Cutting costs and got bit in the ass sounds like the scenario to me. If they had backup lines to begin with.

PS: Yes I understand that providing undersea fiber to other countries is much more expensive than providing fiber along highways in a state, but they probably get paid a bit more for that traffic as well.




By Xenoterranos on 2/1/2008 10:19:45 AM , Rating: 2
Based on the criteria of Off-topicness and general retardicity, I hereby nominate this thread:

Most Flamingly Loving Retarded Thread Ever.

Brought to you by Eye Smite.




It's much better now
By Xajel on 2/1/2008 11:16:07 AM , Rating: 2
I'm from Bahrain, and we are in the affected region too ( the affected area is from Eygpt & Sudan going right to India )

The problem started in Wednesday, 30th Jan, where the net was almost unusable, you had to open the website and refresh the page several time in order to catch a good deal of data to have the full page viewed, opening the page at that time takes about several minutes, except Google wich was the fastest site, reached in 3 - 4 sec. only...
in 31st Jan. ( yesterday ) the net better, and after mid day, the net was much better, today there's nothing to worry about, the net is very good and well usable too




I'm not sure I blame the ISP
By P4blo on 2/1/2008 12:53:40 PM , Rating: 2
The Banks that lost their connections surely approached the ISP as it's business partner. Did they not evaluate the redundancy of their links? Every ISP I deal with here bangs on about their network and its resiliency. Seems to me the banks went with an ISP that was unsuitable. They should have done their homework and gone to another competitor.

The trouble is I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one ISP available. It was like this in Dubai when I was there. One ISP and mad price / market fixing.

Under those circumstances I would blame the government for allowing a monopoly that didn't deliver the necessary levels of service.




Error...
By JimmyC on 2/6/2008 12:44:49 AM , Rating: 2
I would hate to be sitting in front of that computer when you get the little bubble that goes *boop*: A network cable is unplugged.




Cry me a sea
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By JackBeQuick on 1/31/2008 4:23:54 PM , Rating: 2
Great attitude. Now with democratic and capitalist institutions in the Middle East at a standstill, there will be WAY less terrorism!


RE: Cry me a sea
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By Kanti on 1/31/2008 5:04:51 PM , Rating: 1
Ah, the new American patriot, nothing more than a nationalistic bigot. My country right or wrong, huh? Ass.


RE: Cry me a sea
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By mdogs444 on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By JackBeQuick on 1/31/2008 5:29:00 PM , Rating: 5
Standing for your country is one thing. Blindly following the will of a few individuals claiming to have the country's interests in mind is something else.


RE: Cry me a sea
By Kanti on 1/31/2008 6:10:48 PM , Rating: 1
Both of you bigots can go fuck off. Holding your OWN nation accountable for it offenses and short comings is what it means to be a true patriot, rather than a flag waving tool. One mode of citizenship actually improves the country you care about, the other is just being a sheep, accomplishing nothing. Blind support is for Nazis, and militant communists.

Countries are small things, and it's a small planet, only caring about your own nation is selfish, and in the long run, self destructive. I'm sure this all over both your heads anyway, as is anything that can't be reduced to a sports analogy. I for one won't stand aside for flag waving hicks and red necks, and I sure as hell won't stand by any country, even my own, when it's wrong. That's what makes the difference between a patriot, and a nationalistic bigot.


RE: Cry me a sea
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By StevoLincolnite on 1/31/2008 9:35:08 PM , Rating: 1
Well with the reaction some people have given about this Topic I think it's more or less mutual from both sides of the fence.
Just don't try and make them look like the complete bad guys, after all it takes 2 to tango ;)


RE: Cry me a sea
By hubajube on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By TomZ on 1/31/2008 5:29:18 PM , Rating: 5
Yes, because after all, everyone living in the Middle East must be a terrorist - right? Next time think before you post such a bigoted statement.


RE: Cry me a sea
By hubajube on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By TomZ on 1/31/2008 5:42:57 PM , Rating: 3
If the Internet went down in the US, there would be lots of criminals, and probably a number of "terrorists," who would also be affected. So by your logic, you'd also be happy if the Internet in the US was down?

Here's an idea - let's send our military in and shoot the terrorists instead of hoping their Internet service will go down! Oh wait, that's what we're doing already.


RE: Cry me a sea
By xsilver on 1/31/2008 6:15:27 PM , Rating: 2
its no use, just save your breath tomz; some people are closed to learning and new things.
I suspect probably somewhere around 1969 when they saw the moon landing and said "fake!"


RE: Cry me a sea
By hubajube on 1/31/08, Rating: 0
RE: Cry me a sea
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By xsilver on 1/31/2008 7:47:29 PM , Rating: 1
closed minded enough to think that you can wipe them all out?
This is like the "war" on drugs as long as there are drugs, there are going to be people who exploit drugs.
As long as there are nationalistic bigots, there will always be terrorists.

So in order to get rid of terrorists maybe first order of business is not actually to kill the terrorists but some people closer to home.

If its possible try to picture if you were an innocent living on the gaza strip; some american missile blows up your building (collateral damage) everyone you know is dead. You are taken in by a radical group. Who's fault is that?


RE: Cry me a sea
By TomZ on 1/31/2008 7:50:38 PM , Rating: 4
No, the closed-mindedness expressed in this thread is people like you who operate under the presumption that everyone in the Middle East is a terrorist. That is the entire basis of your statements here.

Understanding that there is a dangerous radical element at work in the Middle East doesn't mean that we generalize that to make sweeping, hateful statements about everyone in that region. And recognizing the humanity of the majority of the citizens there also doesn't automatically undermine our security and need to defend ourselves against the radical elements.

You seem to admit this in your post above, however, you haven't internalized it and instead you let your views be guided by a simple hatred. That's not what being "patriotic" means to me.


RE: Cry me a sea
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea
By TomZ on 1/31/2008 8:12:35 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
They didn't fit in with the other passengers at all. blah, blah, blah....

Sorry, I didn't realize you were a selfish child. I thought this was an adult conversation where we already agreed that "all men are created equal" - does that sound familiar to you?

But what you really fail to realize is that the world is not zero-sum. In other words, for America to go up doesn't mean that others have to go down. In reality, the economic development that is sweeping across the globe is bringing us all up together, some faster than others, but basically all in the same direction. Sure, Americans should put their own country first, but you have to realize that our success and prosperity is very interdependent on at the same time the success of others around the globe, including the Middle East and Asia. To not recognize this is to completely miss the major developments and changes over the past century.

If we selfishly serve only ourselves going forward, we give away any hope of greatness. But that is not really the nature of the American spirit.


RE: Cry me a sea
By eye smite on 1/31/08, Rating: -1
RE: Cry me a sea