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Distortion problems on the new MacBook Pro leave some units unreadable and unusable. A firmware update failed to resolve the issue, indicating Apple still is unsure what is causing it.  (Source: TechTree)
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

In January, loyal Apple fans ponied up at least $2,799 to get their paws on the hot new 17" MacBook Pro.  However, it proved for many of them to be an unpleasant ride with the graphics failing on many units.  Now it's deja vu, with Apple owners being faced with more pesky graphics problems.

Reports indicate the newly released MacBook Pros with unibody aluminum cases are suffering from display distortion, which leaves text unreadable and the screen hard to use.  Apple's support team has indicated on its forums that the issue is isolated to customers using the Mini-DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adapter. 

Apple has released a firmware update to patch the problem -- the 1.02 firmware update for the Mini-DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adapter.  However, it strangely decided not to post the update on Apple software update or on its website.

And apparently, even with the update, many users still report problems, indicating that more problems are afoot.  In the past Apple has blamed NVIDIA for making flawed drivers.  Fixes by NVIDIA failed to resolve the issues.  Issues have also been reported in iMac desktops, which incidentally have AMD Radeon graphics.

The moral of the story is if you buy a MacBook Pro or an iMac -- both of which remains relatively pricey -- you have to expect that it may have display issues, as Apple has failed to resolve these onerous problem or figure out what's going on.  Its still a mystery whether the graphics hardware, drivers, display, the OS, or some combination of these components is to blame.  Hope does spring eternal, though -- Apple fans have seized on the hope that Apple's upcoming Snow Leopard OS, to be released in September, may clear up the graphical mess that has plagued Apple's notebooks.

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Apple and problems?
By Bender 123 on 6/24/2009 9:20:43 AM , Rating: 5
But...but...but, the Apple commercials say Apple computers and hardware never have problems. This must be more filthy lies from the PC crowd.


RE: Apple and problems?
By DarkPrime on 6/24/2009 9:41:00 AM , Rating: 5
But I thought Macs were supposed to be superior to all others for Graphics?

RE: Apple and problems?
By DEredita on 6/24/2009 9:48:41 AM , Rating: 5
The 9400M must be one hell of an amazing GPU, since it's used in a $1700 pro series laptop, and in a $1500 desktop. That right there, plus the fancy Apple logo are sure signs that you're getting superior graphics.

Sure, you can get a 17" quad-core laptop, with 4GB of ram, and 1GB of fast dedicated graphics for a few hundred cheaper than the "superior" Macbook Pro with its 9400 integrated GPU god-chip.


RE: Apple and problems?
By aegisofrime on 6/24/2009 9:54:36 AM , Rating: 5
This post is a Pirks magnet, even though it's totally true. And before you know it, we will be arguing about the virtues of a Lexus vs that of a Toyota all over again.

RE: Apple and problems?
By TomZ on 6/24/2009 10:01:27 AM , Rating: 3
And you know how much we ALL love car analogies!

RE: Apple and problems?
By FITCamaro on 6/24/2009 11:08:51 AM , Rating: 5
*Pokes head over cubicle wall*


RE: Apple and problems?
By DeepBlue1975 on 6/24/2009 9:32:09 PM , Rating: 3
Apple has decided to make cars??????


They'll surely look great!!
But they'll only have one sit for the driver, the luggage compartment will be only big enough to put a can of your favourite soda in it, will be as fast and as equipped as any upper mid range car but you will have to pay for it higher than what you'd pay for that sports supercar you only get in your dreams, and will be incompatible with any kind of fuel that's not apple branded.

Oh, and one more thing: it'll only come in white.

Enter the iCar... One for which, with all certainty, iDon't care.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Ratinator on 6/24/2009 11:10:22 AM , Rating: 5
You mean something like: Buying an apple is analogous to painting yellow stripes on your vehicle because we all know yellow makes you go faster.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By Ratinator on 6/24/2009 12:00:32 PM , Rating: 2
Did they all have this problem or just you?

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 2:25:03 PM , Rating: 3
According to the article all Macbook Pros have the issue.
I have not seen any articles about overheating GPU on Gateway laptops however.

As a matter of fact in the recent memory (1 year or so) I only remember Apple having issues all the time. Exploding batteries, failing solder joints, bad screens, iBricks, bad chargers, getting hacked in 40 secs, etc

Seems like Lexus is having issues while Toyota is going strong eh?

RE: Apple and problems?
By Bender 123 on 6/24/2009 2:50:30 PM , Rating: 2
Not to feed the pirks, by which I mean to feed the pirks, but...

A more important question is how somebody can get a lifetime mod rating of .84? You have to be trying to not only have your comments overlooked as an average "2", but be consistently noticed as being a subpar commenter.

RE: Apple and problems?
By sprockkets on 6/24/2009 11:00:29 PM , Rating: 2
He would be lower, except there aren't enough people to mod him down since he posts so much.

We rather make fun of him.

And no, I don't stand up for Microsoft. I use SuSE Linux primarily and Windows as well for my other needs.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By Noubourne on 6/24/2009 3:37:12 PM , Rating: 3
Well, since most monitors have displayport - this should be an exceedingly small number of customers!


RE: Apple and problems?
By foolsgambit11 on 6/24/2009 6:19:36 PM , Rating: 5
From what I understand, all said MacBook Pros have the issue. Whether that issue affects you or not depends on if you plan to use a Mini-DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adaptor.

To use a *ugh* car analogy, say the A/C didn't work on any Lexuses (Lexi?). Even though you may live in Alaska and never use the A/C, all Lexuses still have the isse.

RE: Apple and problems?
By MrWho on 6/25/2009 6:24:40 PM , Rating: 1
Luckily for apple, most users don't use that connection, or else they could be in trouble!

RE: Apple and problems?
By TomZ on 6/24/2009 12:05:11 PM , Rating: 5
Pirks, you're missing the point. Yes, there have been hundreds of millions of PCs shipped, and sure there are and have been some problems. But that's really not relevant.

The problem Apple has is their arrogant marketing and their reality distortion field in which Apple prodects "just work." In other words, Apple advertises their products to be superior and above any kind of problems, which of course comes back to bite them in the ass when then have design and/or quality problems. And the latter seems to be happening with some degree of regularity lately.

In other words, it's about Apple setting higher expectations and then failing to meet them.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By TomZ on 6/24/2009 2:27:28 PM , Rating: 5
Way to miss the point - again. The problem is not the ads, or the products - it's the expectations. Basically Apple's marketing oversells and sets up customers for disappointment because the rest of the company can't deliver.

Basically Jobs' oversized ego is poured into the ads, and his organization cannot live up to his over-inflated self-image.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 2:45:39 PM , Rating: 2
Unless of course the share increases because new customers fall victims to the adverts while the old customers are stuck with the iTurds but do not really plan to go back and buy another one.

Perhaps in 3 years time, when the hype has faded we will see how many of those customers will go back and we will see if Apple can maintain its market share.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By themaster08 on 6/24/2009 5:47:32 PM , Rating: 3
old customers are stuck with the iTurds but do not really plan to go back and buy another one.

Also not forgetting those that live a life of denial, feeling the need to constantly justify to themselves and others that they made the right choice spending that 3 grand in buying an Apple computer, therefore continue to purchase Apple products.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By nuarbnellaffej on 6/25/2009 12:41:12 AM , Rating: 2
From a hardware prospective, my self-built pc is MILES above ANY MAC anywhere near my PC's price, which ended up being about $1000, so... what your saying is its junk because it doesn't have an apple logo on it?

Also, you are aware that Apples are made from the same components as PC's right?

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/25/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/25/2009 4:02:50 PM , Rating: 2
So, you don't think you can get a PC with the same battery efficiency and performance-to-volume ratio as a Mac? pfft...

And, even if first one was true, the second one has very little bearing on the meat and potatoes within the case. Other makers might choose to use more space for cooling to keep from having the dreaded bad Apple screen issues.....

Use your head

RE: Apple and problems?
By sprockkets on 6/26/2009 3:57:57 AM , Rating: 2
The great boost in battery life has nothing to do with the hardware, but with OSX. Even people running "hackint0sh" on their MSI netbooks experienced an hour more battery life after the .7 update to Leopard, as well others stating they got 1-1.5 hrs. more for normal MacBooks.

Nice huh? But it isn't because Apple has complete control over the hardware. If that were the case, Atom based netbooks wouldn't benefit.

RE: Apple and problems?
By themaster08 on 6/25/2009 4:37:28 AM , Rating: 3
I think I speak for the vast majority here when I say that I have absolutely no problem with Apple products per se. What I do have a problem with is how they portray their products through such egotistical predominance, of which many people are gullible enough to believe.

On top of mediocre hardware, yes, the MacBook may have a better trackpad, better battery life, magsafe, and everything else you have previously listed, but most people aren't aware of that. Most people think Apple products are superior because the TV told them so.

RE: Apple and problems?
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 12:09:25 PM , Rating: 1
50$ says you are such a retard that you were trying to run 3D accelerated apps with the laptop in bed and completely blocking the vents under it.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Ratinator on 6/24/2009 12:37:57 PM , Rating: 2
My thoughts exactly.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 2:28:59 PM , Rating: 2
So you still used it in bed only with a laptop cooler under it?
Has it ever occurred to you that the laptop cooler has vents under it too?
Perhaps your specific model had a defect? At least it is a better fate than an entire range of laptops to have the same problem. Especially ones that are really expensive you know.

If I pay for Lexus I want reliability. Apple fails to provide.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 3:02:25 PM , Rating: 4
Maybe it failed because of the Mac envy you have? The Gateway notebook just new that, in your eyes, it could never live up to your expectations and it just decided to give up!

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 5:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
When did I say it was a problem with the display itself?

RE: Apple and problems?
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 12:17:46 PM , Rating: 1
No, it is the equivalent of taking the chassis and mechanical parts from a Datsun and putting a Nissan GTR body on top and installing a full leather interior full of gadgets and cool stuff.

Then you advertise it as superior: It burns less than a real GTR would of course because the engine is smaller and "weaker" and it also weighs less because the mechanical components are lighter in a Datsun. The problem is that you just paid the full price of a GTR and you do 0-60 in 10 secs. You are also missing the perfect weight distribution, the 4WD and the electronics that control the performance.

How is that for analogy Priks?

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/24/2009 2:26:51 PM , Rating: 1
You should get the Apple dick out off your ass ;)

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/24/2009 2:32:54 PM , Rating: 2
Quite amusing coming from someone such as you, because the problem is, I don't stick up for MS the way you stick up for Apple, funny how that is eh? So continue slobbing the Apple knob, it's right up your alley.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/24/2009 3:43:51 PM , Rating: 1
You truly are a fucking moron......I mean really.... are you that in denial that you can't see how far up Apples ass you have your head?

RE: Apple and problems?
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/24/2009 3:47:13 PM , Rating: 1
I'll wait for your, as usual, moronic retort...this should be interesting...

RE: Apple and problems?
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 2:41:57 PM , Rating: 2
How about you check out the new processors we got more than a year ago. They are quad cores not dual cores. GeForce 9600M is not exactly top spec considering that for the same price you can get SLI on some laptops. How about you check out the i7? Oh and how about the GeForce 280M? Now those would definitely be a Lexus or Nissan GTR. Alas, Apple is all words and hot air.
Unless they go a step above the competition to justify their prices, they are and always will be a Datsun with a Nissan GTR body kit.

So yes, still a Datsun. The same as any other type of Datsun as Dell and HP make. Nothing groundbreaking or innovative about it apart from an aluminium body which is still lame compared to a full carbon fibre body that some VAIOs have.

By the way, I love how you called the 9600M a good GPU. Shows how cut off from reality you are. Have a look here to see how far from Lexus you are.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 5:12:41 PM , Rating: 2
Were Mac Pro's available with i7 before the 20th of January? I know of other box makers that had i7 workstations on the market by that time.

RE: Apple and problems?
By on 6/24/2009 7:23:52 PM , Rating: 2
how about you STFU Pirks!!!!

RE: Apple and problems?
By on 6/24/2009 9:56:16 PM , Rating: 2
how about you go and fock yourself!!!!

RE: Apple and problems?
By Pirks on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/25/2009 8:52:08 AM , Rating: 2
Is that a mobile card? Not sure if you noticed, but he said 280M which means mobile.

BTW, you never answered my question above, I am sure that it's because you are wrong.

RE: Apple and problems?
By sprockkets on 6/24/2009 12:55:47 PM , Rating: 5
One way of looking at it is this: Apple can be considered the Lexus of computers.

But, Lexus doesn't make commercials dissing Chevrolet for having a plastic interior or for lacking wasteful luxury features. That would make it look like a pompous a$$.

Apple consistently disses $500 laptops, free cell phones, netbooks and high end workstations as well. They also claim their computers just work, with no disclaimers, which means they advertise perfection, which it never delivers.

And that's why people here hate Apple!

RE: Apple and problems?
By ImSpartacus on 6/24/2009 12:21:19 PM , Rating: 2
Well I don't think you understand how much better the lexus is than the toyota...

RE: Apple and problems?
By Denigrate on 6/26/2009 8:29:13 AM , Rating: 2
Except that the mentioned quad core gaming laptop above is more like a Bentley.

RE: Apple and problems?
By ksherman on 6/24/2009 11:30:45 AM , Rating: 2
While mostly true, the upper end ($1800+) 15.4"ers and 17" also have a 9600M GT in them as well, so its not JUST the 9400M

RE: Apple and problems?
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 12:23:20 PM , Rating: 2
And you have to log off to switch GPUs. I am sure that is the new cool way to switch devices in Apple land.

Quick everyone, get two GPUs in your laptops and make the user log off to switch between them. This is the new innovation from Apple.

RE: Apple and problems?
By WoWCow on 6/24/2009 9:48:09 AM , Rating: 2
They have neglected to report the fact they, Apple, uses the same components as all the PCs out there at a 1000$ premium.

Of course, as much as I hate to admit, their customer service is much better than Dell (in my experience) and Apple does make quality stuff, when the stuff works!

RE: Apple and problems?
By chrgeorgeson on 6/24/2009 10:09:43 AM , Rating: 5
and Apple does make quality stuff, when the stuff works!

I agree with everything you said but your last line is kind of funny.

To me that's like saying: "My car gets me to my location... when it's moving."

I'm just playing around by the way so don't take what I say to seriously. God knows my wife doesn't.

RE: Apple and problems?
By maverick85wd on 6/24/2009 11:38:47 AM , Rating: 2
Definitely hillarious, but it's more like saying:

"60% of the time, it works every time."

RE: Apple and problems?
By DASQ on 6/24/2009 12:03:42 PM , Rating: 2
The Sex Panther school of thought.

RE: Apple and problems?
By maverick85wd on 6/24/2009 2:43:11 PM , Rating: 2
"What is that? Smells like a turd covered in burnt hair!"

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 10:34:28 AM , Rating: 5
I am a die hard PC guy, but my boss wants a 13" macbook pro. In trying to convince him otherwise I tried to find a comparable PC that was way cheaper, but was unsuccessful. If anyone has any ideas let me know.

The 13" mac has 2.26 Ghz Core 2 Duo, a quick search on newegg for a 13.3" screen in the 2.0 Ghz + range AND not an intel graphic chip, has an Asus with a bit better specs for $1199. Oddly enough the same price as the mac.

Now if you step up to a brand that we actually have a corporate account for (Dell, Lenovo, HP...) the Mac ends up actually cheaper. Do the same newegg search and the cheapest Lenovo is in the $2700 range, and uses a much slower CPU.

Now I am NOT saying macs are a value, but at least in the lightweight 13" class they are not a bad deal.

So a bit of a challenge if anyone can find a tier 1 brand that is sub 4lb (which btw the Asus fails), Core2Duo 2Ghz+, 13.3", NO intel graphics chipset. If you can find one even 20% less expensive than the mac I would like a link so I can convince him not to bring a mac into my network.

RE: Apple and problems?
By tech329 on 6/24/2009 10:47:18 AM , Rating: 2
Get a Dell e6500 from the Dell outlet page. You can find there 2.4 C2D, 250GB HD, 4GB memory etc. Great pricing too.
I buy there all the time. I'm not associated with Dell in any way.

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 10:57:30 AM , Rating: 3
I did not see pricing on your link, but a refurb is hardly a direct comparison. This is kind of my point if you have to look to outlet sites to find a much better deal, then maybe... dare I say ... the mac is really not overpriced (again in this class).

And the 6500 is a 15.4" and does not meet the portability requirements.

Next please.

RE: Apple and problems?
By JasonMick on 6/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: Apple and problems?
By thornburg on 6/24/2009 11:22:18 AM , Rating: 2
Nice try. 15.4" 6.5 lbs.

It does look like a very nice laptop, though.

RE: Apple and problems?
By JasonMick on 6/24/2009 11:40:50 AM , Rating: 2
My apologies... this is the one I meant...

It's 4.3 lb, but I doubt a few extra ounces are going to break your back.

I've never heard any serious complaints about the ASUS brand, so I wouldn't see any compelling reason not to use them.

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 11:44:34 AM , Rating: 2
That is the one I was referring to in my OP, and it is the same price. I would not have a problem with it at all, but there is no compelling price break to outweigh the status symbol of the Apple for this guy. In other words it is hard to argue with a Sr. VP that a brand he never heard of is the same price so we should get it.

RE: Apple and problems?
By aebiv on 6/24/2009 11:58:41 AM , Rating: 2
Then show him Asus's web page with how many machines shipped with their parts and how much growth they've had.

RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 12:13:30 PM , Rating: 2
Just tell him that Asus was making all of the Apple notebooks for quite some time, at least they were until Apple starting having all the problems. Asus was THE manufacturer for Mac books for many years past, so, you were still buying Asus.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Unspoken Thought on 6/24/2009 12:21:56 PM , Rating: 3
RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 11:39:51 AM , Rating: 2
Economic times or not the CEO's son and Sr. VP want the protability, and douchebag image that comes with one (for executives they like that shiny new stuff image and will pay for it). Again I DON'T want it, but no one can give me a compelling option that has the same portability.

I would not go spending that for every Joe blow employee, but if this Sr. VP gets it I'm sure 5 others will want one too. I'm trying to find a way to prevent this, and I'm sorry but in this class the "Apple is overpriced" argument does not appear to be valid.

RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 11:47:28 AM , Rating: 3

14" (Macbook is 13.3")
4gb memory (Macbook has 2Gb)
320Gb drive 7200RPM (Macbook has a 160Gb @ 5400RPM)
2.4ghz Core 2 (Macbook has 2.13Ghz CPU)
DVD SM (equivalent)
Ge Force GT 120M with 1Gb video memory (faster than the 9400M in the Macbook)
6 Cell lion (Macbook has slightly longer batter life)

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 11:51:56 AM , Rating: 2
A good option, but the size may be a deal breaker for him. He wants something he can throw in a sleeve in his briefcase. Judging by pictures alone this one looks to have a much bigger footprint.

I send him the link, but it may not be enough. The other specs might persuade him.

RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 11:57:37 AM , Rating: 2
The footprint difference between the two is minimal if you actually compare them side by side.

I don't really see how any serious computer user wouldn't want to go for the much better spec'ed machine, but if he is all about the image and status, by the Mac. I don't really care what anyone buys, but just be honest about the reasons.

The Asus notebook is less $$$ with much better specs and only slightly larger footprint. I have used 14" notebooks and 13.3" notebooks, and both will almost always be able to fit in the same cases. But, if the guy isn't really concerned with the spec's and price and is actually only worried about what others might think or better yet what he thinks his notebook says about him, then clearly he is already a Mac user and just doesn't know it.

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 12:11:19 PM , Rating: 2
then clearly he is already a Mac user and just doesn't know it.

That is my fear, and I'm afraid his Title will see to it that I have no choice but to support it.

RE: Apple and problems?
By JasonMick on 6/24/2009 11:56:38 AM , Rating: 3
I don't get that argument, though. Your boss is willing to settle for inferior, potentially glitchy hardware that won't run Windows software outside of multiboot?

If its just a one-shot deal for a boss, buy them something real nice like:

Granted, both are overpriced, but both feature better hardware as well.

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 12:09:31 PM , Rating: 2
Your boss is willing to settle for inferior, potentially glitchy hardware that won't run Windows software outside of multiboot?

Yes he is...
He is a user, surely you've met one. He only knows what the TV tells him :), and it does not tell him that it is inferior, and glitchy and he does not believe me because "I'm a PC".

Now you see my problem, his heart is set on one and there are no cheaper options that I can send him that prove it is way too expensive or something. I do plan on sending him this article to try to show him the problems.

RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 12:17:27 PM , Rating: 2
That Asus machine that I posted before is much faster, especially considering it has a 7200RPM drive and the Mac has a 5400RPM drive, double the memory, faster CPU, and costs 10% less. It only weighs 1/2lb more, and is only 7/10's of an inch larger. If he cannot see the logic in that then he needs to be put out of his misery :) .

RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 12:19:55 PM , Rating: 2
Oh, and I forgot the most important part, it's not known for having graphics problems, while also having a much better graphics solution with 4 times the video memory.

So, if he went with the Asus, he will get a notebook that doesn't have a high chance of failing, for less money, and it will have MUCH better hardware all the way around.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Motoman on 6/24/2009 12:22:38 PM , Rating: 2
...if I were you, I'd just start looking for a new boss. This one isn't qualified for the job.

RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 12:29:52 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, I was looking at Macbook pricing. The Asus machine I posted is 25% less with much better specs. So, for 25% less, you get a LOT more.

RE: Apple and problems?
By SilthDraeth on 6/24/2009 12:00:18 PM , Rating: 3
IS your IT staff trained in the use of OSX? I worked as a tech at a school, and even our system admin that is a unix/linux nutball was having trouble getting OSX to play nicely on the network, and it is almost impossible to manage the Macs on an Active Directory domain.

So the cost is more than just the price of the machine, because you have to manually manage each piece of hardware individually.

Need software installed on 30 Macs? No you can't just build an MSI package and push it out through Group Policy. You have to install it one at a time on 30 machines.

I am not sure if that situation applies to you, but consider it, if it does.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Scott66 on 6/24/2009 6:05:30 PM , Rating: 2
Buy a macserver and do net installs. Much easier than Novell and Microsoft server. Decide to netboot and you will have no problems with adventurous types who delete files or spend time screwing with group policies.

We have 500 macs and 500 windows on a Novell/Apple server set up. I spend 3-4 times more time and resources on fixing window issues than OSX.

RE: Apple and problems?
By SilthDraeth on 6/25/2009 11:53:54 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, we had a MAC server. And perhaps it was the environment I worked in, because a group of teachers at that school, and the Principal bought the stuff against the original IT staff's recommendation, and we finally got them to agree to let us manage the Mac server. Unfortunately they bought the low end version when they got it, so... long story short, they also complained, and we washed our hands of it.

But, we had around 5k windows machines, and around 50 Macs, and the Macs took more time and resources, on a case by case basis, but obviously less time overall due to the huge disparity of PC to Macs.

My point wasn't that you can not manage Macs, but if you are primarily a PC environment, you might not have the IT staff on hand to do it properly.

RE: Apple and problems?
By rudy on 6/24/2009 2:27:32 PM , Rating: 2
Do not buy dell without a deal as you said they are similar in macs to price the trick is when you slap on a coupon code for 20 - 40% off which you can regularly find at techbargains then a dell or HP will be much cheaper.

On the otherhand from your description I would just buy the mac book the reason is that if any one little thing goes wrong with the computer you buy him then he will cry about the company or windows. I find it is much better to let them buy the mac book and then when they have problems they cannot blame you or windows or anyone else. Regardless of anything you need to protect your job.

RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 11:06:30 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe I am confused here? So, we all know the Mac books are having major reliability issues, so why in the world would he consider getting a Mac book?

Also, HP has a 13.3" on Newegg for $749 with a Turion X2 2.1 and an HD 3200 GPU (which is pretty darn good, but not discrete).

So, why would he want to buy something that is likely going to have problem? It just doesn't make any sense.

RE: Apple and problems?
By thornburg on 6/24/2009 11:27:22 AM , Rating: 2
This one?

That's not bad.

Some would object to the Turion, but if horsepower isn't all that important, it's a 4.6lb 13" laptop with dual-core CPU and ATI graphics for $800.

I can't find a battery life spec.

Also, it seems this lappy can be found elsewhere for about $720.

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 11:48:23 AM , Rating: 2
That one is compelling, but I don't think it will convince him. Since it not Intel, we are dealing with a Sr. VP that wants the status symbol so I need something that is at least as good for far less. According to common knowledge (mine too before this project fell in my lap) Apple was just too expensive. So far I can't give him a link that says otherwise. If this one was a C2D I would have a shot, but he is not a complete moron he knows that the AMD mobile platform is not on the same level as the C2D.

RE: Apple and problems?
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 1:40:37 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is easy to solve. Send him a link to the VAIO website. Some of them have carbon fibre body. It makes your ego way bigger than plain aluminium does but it is incompatible with the reality distortion field.

RE: Apple and problems?
By thornburg on 6/24/2009 11:17:29 AM , Rating: 1
find a tier 1 brand that is sub 4lb (which btw the Asus fails)

I'm actually pro-Mac myself, agree with 99% of what you said, but the MacBook & MacBook Pro both weigh more than 4lbs.
Only the Air is less, and that's $1500, not $1200.

But yeah, if anyone can find a good 13" or 14" laptop with non-Intel graphics for less than $1000 I'll be impressed. Good means C2D cpu, less than 5.5 lbs, and at least 5 hrs rated battery life. The Mac gets more than that.

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 11:54:41 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks I could not find the exact weight on the 13", I assumed it was under 4 but it may be in the 4.3 range.

RE: Apple and problems?
By monomer on 6/24/2009 3:59:41 PM , Rating: 2
There's the HP Dv3t which costs $914 with the following specs:

13.3" WXGA Display
C2D T6400 (2.0 GHz)
320 GB HDD
GeForce G 105M Graphics
9 cell lithium battery

The weight is listed at 4.7 pounds, but I imagine that's with the 6 cell battery which only has a rated 4 hours battery life. The 9 cell battery will supposedly run you 7 hours, so the weight will probably be pushing around 5 pounds.

RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 11:30:48 AM , Rating: 2
Or better yet, you can make a wise business decision and buy a notebook that is only SLIGHTLY larger and SLIGHTLY heavier with better specs for less $$$. 14" 5lbs

RE: Apple and problems?
By weskurtz0081 on 6/24/2009 11:37:08 AM , Rating: 2
5.5lbs according to CNET, I thought it said 5lbs.

Seriously though, an extra lb or 1.5lb's isn't that big of a deal. I don't see how it could effect the functionality of the machines. Also, consider that the Macbook likely has cooling issues, which seems to be a likely case.

So, if cooling is better, specs are much better, I would be more than happy to buy the 14" Asus, with only slightly less battery life, but overall better specs and only slightly heavier if that means it's more adequately cooled and doesn't have the track record of recent Mac books having all the graphics problems they have been having with no end in sight.

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 11:56:08 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry not clear in my OP, this is a Sr. VP and saving money is not as important as the portability so this one is probably not going to cut it.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Smilin on 6/24/2009 11:33:30 AM , Rating: 2
Lets face it he probably wants something that people ooh and ah over when he brings it out.

Checkout a Voodoo Envy 133

RE: Apple and problems?
By bhieb on 6/24/2009 11:42:34 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly it is a Sr. VP and CEO's son, so it is a status symbol, and he definitely likes the smaller size of the 13.3".

RE: Apple and problems?
By ShangoY on 6/24/2009 1:13:47 PM , Rating: 2
Your CEO's son is an idiot. If an exec vp shows up at most major corporations with a macbook, most execs would laugh. Unless he is dealing with some Mac centric company, his status symbol is showing the status of moron.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Parhel on 6/24/2009 2:39:39 PM , Rating: 2
If price is no object, what about the Dell Adamo?

I'm also a fan of the 13.3" laptops. My laptop is a 15.4" and spends 95% of it's time plugged into the docking station.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Parhel on 6/24/2009 4:04:02 PM , Rating: 2
You know what? Forget the Adamo. If I were in your shoes, I'd buy the Mac and wouldn't even suggest an alternative. I'd completely trick it out with the best of everything while I was at it. It's just not worth pissing off an SVP.

RE: Apple and problems?
By ice456789 on 6/24/2009 9:52:34 AM , Rating: 5
The display looks fine. Just purchase a pair of iGlasses ($299 retail). Available by prescription only, which you can get from your iDoctor.

RE: Apple and problems?
By psychobriggsy on 6/24/2009 9:54:43 AM , Rating: 2
Looks like Lenslok to me.

RE: Apple and problems?
By Sazabi19 on 6/24/2009 10:14:48 AM , Rating: 2
But it's so shiny!!!! You are paying for the shine that no one else gives you, the new line of Apples should be the Apple *Shine*, they could easily sell it for twice the price. The people will be in such a daze from it they won't be able to see the price tag or remember getting out their iCard to pay for it (Apple will also go into the credit business just for their products). It's so mezmerizing! @.@

RE: Apple and problems?
By Bender 123 on 6/24/2009 3:56:16 PM , Rating: 2
The ability to read the screen is a feature for the next line refresh. Imagine the lines for the "MacBook UltraPro". It will include a functional displayport, non-capped SATA and readable text output system, called iCanReadiT.

This is the Apple MO and it worked for adding Video recording to the iPhone, so why not expect holding back basic features for the upsell version would work on the notebook line?

RE: Apple and problems?
By Scott66 on 6/24/2009 6:14:04 PM , Rating: 2
Apple has issued a software patch to uncap the Sata limit. They decided a few users were going to upgrade to SSD's so they uncapped it. None of the platter HDD's can get near to 1.5 Gb rate.

One of the few instances where Apple did a fast change.

Now if they can put the express card back on the 15.4 MacBook Pro I will be a happy camper. 17 inch is just too large to be considered mobile

By wuZheng on 6/24/2009 9:33:33 AM , Rating: 4
It just works.

RE: Apple
By TomZ on 6/24/2009 9:35:51 AM , Rating: 3
It's just broken.(TM)

RE: Apple
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 12:03:31 PM , Rating: 4
It's NOT a Lexus.(TM)

RE: Apple
By mattclary on 6/24/2009 9:49:27 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry, didn't see your post before I did mine. :|

We should also queue the comparisons to buying a Mercedes or BMW! LOL!

RE: Apple
By AntiV6 on 6/24/2009 10:41:21 AM , Rating: 3
Unless it breaks™

By Spivonious on 6/24/2009 10:19:04 AM , Rating: 2
It looks like a sort of reverse anti-aliasing to me. Maybe something is borked in the graphics subsystem?

RE: Hmm
By TomZ on 6/24/2009 10:22:17 AM , Rating: 2
I would guess it is a signal integrity issue. Probably an issue with PCB layout or cabling. Video signals are very fast and require special attention during design, and maybe Apple cut some corners somewhere.

RE: Hmm
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/24/2009 11:59:33 AM , Rating: 2
What? Apple cut corners? Say it ain't so!

RE: Hmm
By TomZ on 6/24/2009 12:07:16 PM , Rating: 2
Well, the mistake was either (a) ignorance, or (b) cutting corners, regardless of the root cause. Neither of which is good for Apple's "quality" image.

RE: Hmm
By Cheesew1z69 on 6/24/2009 12:12:56 PM , Rating: 2
No it isn't

RE: Hmm
By Myg on 6/24/2009 12:50:50 PM , Rating: 2
Indeed, rather; Image quality and "quality" image both took a punch in this fuzzy mishap. Lets hope their smear campaign can cover up this particular mis-alignment.

Its Nvidia's fault!!
By Helbore on 6/24/2009 10:51:15 AM , Rating: 3
I like how Apple blames the problem on Nvidia drivers. I thought the fact that Apple controlled the entire production of the Mac was why they never had sub-standard drivers and why you don't get compatibility problems with Macs like you do with PCs.

I'm sure that's the case. The Apple advert told me so.

RE: Its Nvidia's fault!!
By DLeRium on 6/24/2009 12:22:06 PM , Rating: 2
Yes and Nvidia has admitted that there's hardware issues with the whole 8xxx and 9xxx series mobile GPUs ok? If there's a fundamental hardware issue, you need to go after those.

RE: Its Nvidia's fault!!
By sprockkets on 6/24/2009 12:59:18 PM , Rating: 2
That issue is 2 years old, and was fixed a year ago. If that was the issue like before with earlier Macs with discrete graphics, there would be no video period.

This is via the chipset, which none of them had issues.

RE: Its Nvidia's fault!!
By DLeRium on 6/24/2009 1:52:47 PM , Rating: 2
It was not fixed a year ago. They thought they fixed it with the 9xxx series but then NV came out and said the same thing. Except they said it was a potential with the 9xxx series. BTW the whole issue wasn't made known till last summer, so the 8600 plague wasnt official till last year. Apple claimed the unibody MBPs fixed it all, but then NV came out with the uhhh maybe it's not statement. Read Mac Forums and you will see people talking about their unibody MBPs and issues. I do not know about the new June '09 MBs/MBPs though.

RE: Its Nvidia's fault!!
By Helbore on 6/24/2009 4:36:12 PM , Rating: 2
So Macs do suffer from driver, hardware and compatibility problems - just like PCs - even though Apple claim "they just work."

Is that what you're saying?

By mdogs444 on 6/24/2009 9:20:01 AM , Rating: 5
But, but...we don't know how to make a cheap computer...

No, they might not. But they sure can make an expensive piece of junk.

RE: apple...
By fsardis on 6/24/2009 12:06:54 PM , Rating: 3
They don't know how to make a sub-600$ computer that is not a piece of junk.

They sure do know how to make a 1500$ laptop that is a piece of junk.

Apple-Because making junk is expensive.(TM)

Not to rain on the Windows parade, but ...
By david1225 on 6/24/2009 1:26:21 PM , Rating: 2
... I turned to Mac in 1992 after concluding that Windows was prone to a myriad of errors and configuration issues that, frankly, interfered with my productivity. While my first Mac wasn't perfect, it was understandable to me. It was fairly easy to figure out the (few) problems I encountered and how to fix them. It simply worked better, and more often. I've owned Macs ever since, much the way (gulp) I've owned a Honda ever since my first. And now my whole family owns Macs. I've had some problems from time to time, but nothing that Apple hasn't addressed and addressed promptly. There may be some display issues on some of its laptops, but not on any that I've ever owned, and that's quite a lot. We had issues with our first generation MacBooks, but Apple bent over backwards to make things right. I believe that's why their customer service is rated at the very top -- certainly above Dell and Asus. The new Apple laptops are more that simply beautiful and a pleasure to use. The are better built, sturdier, and have better customer service behind them. Of course, that comes with a price. And while they may not have top of the line graphics capabilities in all cases, I suspect that much of what's been posted here (such as graphics cards differences) are overkill for most users, frankly. And each day, when ordinary computer users get a chance to see what my Mac can do and how easy it is, they give me a list of wishes and complaints about their PCs. Just yesterday, I gave a presentation using Keynote -- the kind of beautiful, easy to use program that you just can't get on a PC. It was elegant and triggered numerous questions about how I could have made something so great in PowerPoint. I didn't, and you can't. You do pay a little extra for a Mac -- although I do quite nicely with Apple's refurbs. But for some of us, it's a bargain. Now, Windows seems to be trying to follow in the footsteps of Mac with Vista and Windows 7. That's a good thing.

RE: Not to rain on the Windows parade, but ...
By rudy on 6/24/2009 3:12:05 PM , Rating: 3
I find that any OS can do just about everything the question is does everyone know how to use it. When you said you cant do something on a PC that you can with keynote the first thing that came to mind is another guy who does not know how to use a program but knocks it. The reality is almost every peice of software out there does worlds more then the average user has any idea it can do. I have to ask are you as good with power point as you are with keynote probably not.

The other thing is no a 9400 is not good enough for most people it is only good enough because they do not fully utilize their computer and the reason they dont is because they are not given the power and flexibility to use it more. Give a person a 9800 and they will have more fun playing games and doing graphics work and then in turn people will develop more programs for it. I had a neighbor that was a big mac guy and he was just like you. When he picked out a PC for us he skimped on everything cause he said thats good enough for you. As such we always thought that gaming was best on consoles. Much like mac people never game at all cause through most of their history they have had low end graphics.

The point is if you give a person a ferrari he will use it if you give him an escort well then he wont think about trying to do certain things like passing people.

The real reason apple gives people mediocre hardware is because they can and people will pay for it. That is all. And when you blindly support them instead of demanding more from them you only hurt yourself in the end.

Any time someone says good enough for most people I laugh cause that is what alot of people said about paper when computers were picking up traction. Give everyone in the world a monster i7 system and watch how much more people can do with a computer. And there will be a new good enough for most people. The way I look at it their is no such thing as good enough their is only what can you afford and you have to make that good enough.

By david1225 on 6/24/2009 4:22:54 PM , Rating: 1
I mentioned Keynote as one example of Apple's excellence in making programs that are both easy to use and produce rather astonishing results -- and happen to very inexpensive, to boot. Frankly, I used PowerPoint for years until Keynote came out. It's lack of both artistry and functionality is astonishing, even in the most current varieties. And I work with people who are, truly, experts when it comes to PowerPoint, and every single one of them acknowledges that Keynote is a better product both in terms of work-flow and results. But, again, this is just one example. Stellar programs (without equal on the PC) are produced not only by Apple, but by companies that program strictly for the Mac. OmniGraffle comes to mind. Spend a little time with it, and then search for a Windows alternative that comes anywhere close to it. I'm pretty confident I know what the results will be, even if you deny it.

And you're right about the OS. I know plenty of folks who have spent the better part of their adult lives working with Windows and, for them, it can do virtually everything the Mac OS can do. But, even these folks admit that Windows truly requires this kind of long-term, tech support approach on the part of the user to really feel safe that your work will proceed without issue and the you can recover from the problems you'll encounter along the way. There's a reason our tech department says that they'd be out of a job if we switched exclusively to Macs.

Your comment on the graphic card doesn't make any sense to me. I agree that folks who want to engage in high end gaming ought to get a PC (or a gaming console). That's fine. But for the average computer user, quibbles bout the difference between a 9400 and 9800 are the equivalent of a debate about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's just silly and a waste of breath, really.

Apple's hardware isn't mediocre. Just because it isn't state of the art (in some respects only, by the way) doesn't make it so. My Macs have been incredibly reliable, far more so that many of the Dells we have in the office that seem to be crapping out early and often. And Apple's great customer service (which you don't address) gets things fixed quickly and in a way that evidences a "customer is right" approach. The nationwide network of Apple retail stores make this even easier.

I don't blindly support Apple. Certainly not in the way you can't seem to see the forest for the trees.

By F41TH00 on 6/24/2009 12:30:18 PM , Rating: 2
Finally apple took the blame instead of pointing finger at others... oh gosh...

RE: Finally
By on 6/24/2009 7:20:15 PM , Rating: 2
Hi Im Pirks and I love to slob on steve jobs knob, and my macpro which I wipe my anus with doesnt stink.

It just works logo
By SeW800 on 6/24/2009 10:41:37 AM , Rating: 3
I think this way the "It just works" Apple logo would look better (more authentic):


To be fair...
By iisabrane on 6/24/2009 12:10:44 PM , Rating: 3
If the problems are only with the dual link display adapter, wouldn't the problem only happen with external displays that are 30" or more? This article kind of makes it seem like the built in screen has issues. Although it is a growing market, I don't know too many people who use huge monitors with their laptops. Also, I agree that the 13" Macbook Pro's are actually a fairly good value. Not many small laptops come with the ability to output using DVI (albeit having to purchase a $29 adapter). That low end 15" though....*shaking head*.

On a side note, I deal with a lot of Apple stuff and that Mini-Display port to Dual link DVI adapter is a big hunk of junk. I have heard all kind of faculty at my school having issues with that thing.

That's bullcrap
By DEredita on 6/24/2009 9:40:40 AM , Rating: 2
If you're spending that much on a computer, it should not be plagued by these type of issues.

What is Apple doing for these users? Are they replacing the boards in them? Are the replacing units? Are they sticking users with broken units? Does this issue develop over time?

But hey, "it just works"
By mattclary on 6/24/2009 9:46:20 AM , Rating: 2

Snow Leopard may be worse...
By Chadder007 on 6/24/2009 9:50:10 AM , Rating: 2
Considering that Snow Leopard uses the GPU even more intensively with more acceleration being offloaded to the GPU's....this problem may even get worse if it is a physical hardware problem with overheating/design.

wow great specs
By FITCraparo on 6/24/2009 10:12:22 AM , Rating: 2
that laptop has great specs.

but i think ill stay with the comparably or even better pc laptop for $1299 that actually works !

besides the price i prefer being able to use more than 5% of the software out on the market

One Vendor / Complete Control??
By tech329 on 6/24/2009 10:41:23 AM , Rating: 2
With one vendor in complete control of the entire hardware software architecture I'd be inclined to think it would work flawlessly and never encounter these kinds of problems. Especially in the more pricey realm of the marketplace targeted by these products. It's a good bet there is some strain between the Apple marketing types and the engineering staff. Not to mention the timing is awful.

By andymike on 6/24/2009 7:55:06 PM , Rating: 2
you should know no computer is perfect, it will have some minor problems. commercial is just a lie. i think this time, apple s having trouble

Why waste time on Pirks ?
By chick0n on 6/24/2009 11:31:44 PM , Rating: 2
He is nothing but a moron. Got brainwashed by the oh-holy Steve Jobs and Apple. Its stupid people like him that kept Apple alive. Trust me there stupid people out there to buy stupid products and they felt great about it.

So Guys/Gals, just stop wasting your time, talking to Pirks is like talking to a brick wall. You never get an answer.

Mac sucks. period. The only good thing about Apple is that they're very good at covering their problems. + most Mac users are too stupid/ignorant to admit that they paid too much for a piece/all kinds of garbage(s).

By bkslopper on 6/25/2009 1:25:48 AM , Rating: 2
... it just works.


By raabscuttle on 6/25/2009 4:28:58 PM , Rating: 2
Hey! Didn't nVidia drivers also cause over a third of Vista crashes when it first came out! And weren't nVidia 8400-8600 mobile CPUs falling apart in PC's?! It's nice to see nVidia spreading the love over to Apple too! Way to go, here's your brass button!

This is so stupid
By Theresa on 6/25/2009 5:11:17 PM , Rating: 2
As someone who switched from XP64 to OS X and then to Windows 7, this whole discussion is silly. OS X is superior to Windows, but the hardware is sub-par. Apple stays a generation behind except for their most expensive hardware. As someone pointed out, they have a $1000 premium for better design. If you pay more than $2300 you get nearly state of the art performance. For $1300 you get integrated graphics, a dual core cpu, slow memory, a small hard drive and a great OS. I am tempted to install OS X on non-Apple hardware. Their whole hardware business is like Bang & Ollufson's (sp?) stereo equipment. You pay for visual design, not technical superiority. It isn't worth it to me, I am on a limited income.


By winterspan on 6/29/2009 12:09:33 AM , Rating: 2
So this is not a "display" issue, but an issue with an external monitor through the DVI adapter. Granted, it's a common scenario, but doesn't make the computer "unusable".

Perfect Apple
By Sazabi19 on 6/24/09, Rating: -1
"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." -- Bill Gates

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