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The telling Q&A about HDMI on Xbox 360
The upcoming Xbox 360 Elite should make HDMI transparent to developers

The black Xbox 360 Elite with the 120GB is all but officially confirmed by the lips of Microsoft’s public relations machine. A Microsoft XNA Framework Developer, however, may have quietly confirmed the existence of the upcoming revised Xbox 360. Couple this with today’s spy shots of black Xbox 360s on a Chinese production line and the new Elite console is as close to official as it can get.

In a question posed under Microsoft’s Developer Network, a user asked in the XNA Game Studio Express section if any code changes are required to support the HDMI output on the revised Xbox 360. Shawn Hargreaves, XNA Framework Developer at Microsoft, replied simply with “No changes required.”

The comment by Hargreaves marks the first comment from a Microsoft employee acknowledging the HDMI output on the Xbox 360. Furthermore, his reply insinuates that the new HDMI output options will be completely transparent to developers, leaving the video duties completely up to the scaling hardware inside the new Xbox 360.

This could mean that games that don’t natively support 1080p resolution, such as Gears of War, may be upscaled to support the highest HDTV resolution. Movie lovers could be the ones who benefit the most from the added HDMI connection, as current Xbox 360 will only send a maximum signal of 1080i through component cables.

For owners of the current console, using a VGA cable is the only way to hit 1080p, but the upcoming Xbox 360 Elite will finally give home theater fanatics their connector of choice.

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p vs i
By fxnick on 3/26/2007 11:09:29 PM , Rating: 2
Is there even a noticeable difference between 1080p and 1080i?




RE: p vs i
By nerdtalker on 3/26/2007 11:24:30 PM , Rating: 2
That's a whole different ballgame, my friend.

There's been considerable debate about what the difference looks like for action movies or fast-action scenes. Honestly, I can't really tell much difference between 1080i and p on my monitor, except that with p everything looks a tad sharper (even though I know it shouldn't).


RE: p vs i
By javiergf on 3/27/2007 12:30:39 AM , Rating: 2
Hi, the big question for me, it is not the difference between 1080i and 1080p, Xbox 360 already has 1080p support through composite cable.
My question to all of you, is there any real difference between using good composite cables (like these monster gold) and HDMI, I mean 1080p will be 1080 regardless?
I understand that a bigger HD will be welcome by everybody, but what's the big deal with HDMI. Will the average user notice a difference on quality? Not to foget that most of the HDTVs we have at home, either support 720p or 1080i...


RE: p vs i
By alifbaa on 3/27/2007 11:17:46 AM , Rating: 3
First of all, I believe you mean component, not composite. Component has three cables to carry the signal, composite is the old, crappy SD one cable solution.

Second, it makes absolutely no difference what "quality" of cable you use to transmit component video the 3-6 feet between your device and your monitor. Monster likes to tell you there is, yet they mysteriously never submit their cables to independent review to test their pseudo scientific claims. This allows them to charge the outrageous premiums they extort from you at best buy. All any of these cables are is just simple old coaxial cable. You can easily buy the cheapest stereo and composite cable (3 cables in 1) for $10 and connect them to your component inputs. I guarantee you that you will never ever notice even the slightest difference.

Third, the current XBox 360 does NOT support 1080P over component. They promised it would, in my opinion, knowing that 1080P over component is a technical impossibility. They never delivered. It's not a big deal, except that they advertised the capability. Most people do not have monitors capable of accepting 1080P, much less displaying it if they bought their sets as late as last year. That is starting to change, so M$ is coming out with the HDMI version.

Fourth, for your question of will you notice the difference... The difference will be fairly noticeable if you have a large monitor, at least 50" that is both capable of receiving, displaying, and actually resolving every pixel of a 1080P picture. I wouldn't go out and buy a new TV for 1080P, but if your current display can do it, or you are comfortable spending the added money, it is worth doing.


RE: p vs i
By therealnickdanger on 3/27/2007 5:20:01 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Third, the current XBox 360 does NOT support 1080P over component. They promised it would, in my opinion, knowing that 1080P over component is a technical impossibility.

This is false. You are confused. Component is capable of transmitting 1080p (and higher). The Xbox360 does not support 1080p over component for HD-DVD or DVD content , however, it will display 1080p native and upscaled game content when using component if your TV supports it. Furthermore, if your TV supports 1080p over VGA, you gain the ability to watch HD-DVD in native 1080p as well as upscaled DVD in 1080p if you upgrade to the VGA cable.

There are a lot of caveats regarding 1080p output with the Xbox360 which leads to the confusion, which is a shame. Hopefully we don't have to wait long for ALL Xbox360s to feature HDMI.


RE: p vs i
By Alexvrb on 3/27/2007 8:04:09 PM , Rating: 2
Excellent clarification by therealnickdanger. I'd also like to somewhat dispute your assertion that the quality of the cables makes no difference. After a certain "good enough" point, there's often little difference (certain picky people with better TVs than mine might disagree). However, a cheap cable that doesn't even make the "good enough" grade produces an inferior experience, especially with a 5-cable analog solution. I replaced the stock composite cables on my original Xbox with some el cheapo component cables, thinking all component cables should be better than ye old composite. The end result was very strange. When there was a lot of audio, the video would distort. When there was something on screen that was bright and colorful, an annoying buzzing sound would bleed into the audio. I replaced the cables with Microsoft brand component cables, and the problem completely vanished. Upon better inspection of the cheap cables, it was apparent that they were poorly shielded.

Just my two cents.


RE: p vs i
By javiergf on 3/28/2007 5:10:00 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks to therealnickdanger, alifbaa, Alexvrb for your responses. I still think most of the customers won't really tell much difference between 1080p on 5 "good analog cable" and HDMI, as long as your TV supports 1080p over analog cables. I have seen movies in 1080i and 1080p and the difference is not that great, unless you have a over 50'' TV. But again, that's just my opinion.


RE: p vs i
By EarthsDM on 3/27/2007 12:54:44 AM , Rating: 1
It should look sharper! Interlaced video gives you a scene one half of a frame at a time. That means that if something is moving it looks like:...............instead of:

................................................. ...........=OOO........................=OOO
................................................. .....=OOOOO.......................=OOOOO
................................................. ...........=OOO........................=OOO

Note how the ball (bear with my terrible ASCII art) on the right looks round, while the other does not. If most people can't tell the difference, fine for them. I can pick out refresh rates on most CRT monitors, and so I'm cursed with the need to seek ever higher refresh frequencies...

(Please ignore the periods above, DT doesn't render spaces)


RE: p vs i
By glennpratt on 3/27/2007 1:37:33 AM , Rating: 1
On somewhat still scenes it shouldn't look sharper because the difference between fields is minuscule.


orly?
By dome1234 on 3/26/2007 10:10:13 PM , Rating: 4
or it could be "controlled" leak, given the amount of viral pr these days, you'll never know.

btw, didn't ms was ripping sony's overengineered beast on the "unnecessary" hdmi?




RE: orly?
By PAPutzback on 3/27/2007 9:11:55 AM , Rating: 1
You'd be wrong. Now you know.


I wonder...
By BigToque on 3/26/2007 9:31:03 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder if the person who asked the question was pretty sly and thought a clever side-stepping question might get someone to slip up about the reports of the new xbox...




RE: I wonder...
By PAPutzback on 3/27/2007 9:11:04 AM , Rating: 2
You'd be right


I guess you could say I was being sneaky
By PAPutzback on 3/27/2007 9:03:16 AM , Rating: 1
I guess I could of posted the link to that forum after I received a reply. But I wouldn't take this to mean much. I am not a XNA developer but I do you use a lot of the forums at MSDN. I just figured that was the best place to ask because someone out there might have beta machine and if it wasn't true I would of expected a moderator from MSDN to pull the thread. The reply was from a developer that might now even work for MS. XNA developer is just his title.

I am amazed at how a 3 word response "No changes required" to my post caused such a frenzy. Excellent




By PAPutzback on 3/27/2007 9:07:45 AM , Rating: 3
Here is a link to my post
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?Pos...

A bunch of people have joined the MSDN community with hopes of finding out more. I think "No Changes Required" is the last you will hear from that group.


Wrong
By Derka on 3/27/2007 8:17:43 AM , Rating: 2
The aricle is wrong, Xbox 360 does output 1080p through component.




1080p over component...
By red71rum on 3/27/2007 1:19:56 PM , Rating: 2
I display 1080p over component cables on my Samsung 4695D. When playing I can hit information on my tv remote and the display is 1080p. When watching dvds I think my tv displays 720x480p because the VGA cable is needed for upscaling to 1080i.

While the HDMI connection would be nice, I hardly think that and larger hard drive constitute my getting the newer version.




1080p over component...
By red71rum on 3/27/2007 1:26:01 PM , Rating: 2
I display 1080p over component cables on my Samsung 4695D. When playing I can hit information on my tv remote and the display is 1080p. When watching dvds I think my tv displays 720x480p because the VGA cable is needed for upscaling to 1080i.

While the HDMI connection would be nice, I hardly think that and larger hard drive constitute my getting the newer version.




AUDIO
By deeznuts on 3/27/2007 1:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
What about Hi Def Audio? Can it be passed through HDMI? That's the only thing that concerns me. I want multichannel PCM and soon TrueHD and DTS-HD. Does the Xbox pass these through or will we still be stuck with Dolby Digital/DTS?




HDMI is not needed for 1080P
By OculusX on 3/26/07, Rating: -1
RE: HDMI is not needed for 1080P
By Staples on 3/26/2007 10:43:59 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong on both accounts.

Component cables can carry a 1080p signal but it is not a standard spec and many 1080p TVs do not and will not ever support the capibility to pick up on a 1080p signal over compoent.

The video on HD DVDs as well as Blu Rays is 1920x1080.


RE: HDMI is not needed for 1080P
By nerdtalker on 3/26/2007 10:51:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Component cables can carry a 1080p signal but it is not a standard spec and many 1080p TVs do not and will not ever support the capibility to pick up on a 1080p signal over compoent.
Wrong on your own assertion.

Component cables are perfectly suited to 1080p. Just because certain TVs don't support 1080p signals doesn't mean all TV's don't. In fact, 1080p is already supported by the Xbox 360 in the dashboard, and games such as Gears of War are already upscaled to 1080p. I do it every day on my BenQ FP241W monitor. Explain to me how that's possible if it isn't a "standard spec."

Upscaling to 1080p is hardly anything worth getting excited about, since the box already does it via Component and VGA.

quote:
Component video is capable of producing signals such as 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video and http://www.epanorama.net/documents/video/rs170.htm...