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All-electric Nissan Mixim concept car.
Nissan has unveiled big plans to conquer the Portuguese auto maker, test the waters for international electric efforts

Auto fans willing to test the electric vehicle waters have a lot to be happy about.  With the Chevy Volt , the Tesla Roadster, the $300,000 Lightning GT, and many other electric models from various automakers seeing consumer production within 2 years, many will finally be able to pique their curiosity about the electric experience.

Fans of Tokyo-based Nissan Motor Co. and French partner Renault SA will only have to wait a little bit longer with the company bringing electric cars to the U.S. and Japan in 2010 in time to compete with the production Chevy Volt.  Nissan also announced that it would enter the worldwide electric car fray in full with a global release in 2012.

Now there's new word from the company that those living in Portugal will get to enjoy an electric car a bit earlier.  Nissan and Renault announced a new special partnership with Portugal's government to bring its electric cars to the nation a year early in 2011.  Carlos Ghosn, chief executive of the French and Japanese pair of auto manufacturers, and Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Socrates announced the partnership Wednesday, with PM Socrates saying that the government would take an active role in promoting the vehicles and making them easier to fuel.

Fortunately for other auto fans outside the U.S. and Japan, Portugal is not alone in receiving the cars early -- Israel and Denmark will get them as well in 2011.  Project Better Place, based in Palo Alto, Calif., is promoting their mass marketing.

While other companies are splitting their energy between hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and electric cars, Nissan is forsaking fuel cells to focus purely on electric cars.  Nissan Senior Vice President Minoru Shinohara states, "We are feeling more strongly than ever that we must speed up our development of electric vehicles."

Nissan is in talks with parking lot and railway companies to build charging stations across Portugal as a part of an improved infrastructure, which it hopes to also deploy in the U.S. and Japan to support the vehicles.  While it’s easy to plug-in at home, the new charge stations would quickly charge the vehicle's batteries when taking longer trips, helping it continue gas-free operation and saving the driver valuable dollars (or euros).

Proponents of electric cars, including manufacturers like Nissan, are also pushing for electric car perks like tax breaks, preferential highways lanes and other incentives from the government in U.S., Portugal, and abroad.  Nissan worries that the higher price will leave many customers viewing the cars as an expensive experiment, but it feels given the proper support, they will be well received.

Yasuaki Iwamoto, auto analyst with Okasan Securities Co. says the electric car market is a tough sell.  He states, "It's still a very new technology and so much remains to be seen.  It's unlikely people are suddenly going to switch in big numbers from gas-engine vehicles."

Portugal, like its neighbor Spain, may be an ideal place for the vehicles as it has embraced green technology, especially wind and solar.  Says Mr. Socrates, "This agreement with Renault-Nissan will place Portugal also on the front line in terms of sustainable mobility with zero-emission vehicles.  Promoting electric cars in Portugal will reduce our dependence on imported oil and will contribute to a cleaner environment."

Mr. Shinohara says prospects are looking good in Japan as well, with the average driver only commuting just 12 miles thanks to the high population density.

Nissan has conspicuously not announced deals of how its electric cars will operate.  Whereas GM and others have extensively detailed their upcoming models, Nissan is an enigma.  Will their cars support gas tank fueled generators?  What will the range be?  No one knows outside Nissan, and the company is remaining quiet.

However, whatever the car it delivers, it can expect fierce competition from other national brands in its homeland.  Fuji Heavy Industries, which makes Subaru cars and Mitsubishi Motors Corp. will both launch electric vehicles in Japan in 2009.  Mitsubishi's vehicle goes 99 miles on a charge, while Subaru's goes 50 miles.  These ranges may be too light for rural U.S. drivers, but they work well for packed Japan.

Mitsubishi will be also selling models in the U.S. in 2009, hoping urban buyers in particular snatch up the gas-free auto.  It plans to deploy in Europe in 2010, beating Nissan to the market by a year in Portugal/Denmark and two years in the rest of Europe.

One thing is known about the Nissan vehicles -- they will sport lithium ion batteries.  The batteries will be produced by Automotive Energy Supply Corp., a joint venture between Nissan and Japanese electronics maker NEC Corp. to produce batteries for electric vehicles, headed by President Masahiko Otsuka. 

Nissan/Renault's singular focus on electric and its interesting focus on infrastructure may end up carrying it to success.



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Apartments/Condos?
By skeeter123 on 7/10/2008 3:11:39 PM , Rating: 5
People always say this is great for urban areas, but I'm wondering how are people who live in apartments or condos supposed to plugs these in? Will you need a grappling hook to shoot it to your 5th floor apartment?




RE: Apartments/Condos?
By Solandri on 7/10/2008 3:41:05 PM , Rating: 3
If you can't afford a garage, you're supposed to use public transportation. ;)

There will be some rough spots during the transition. Once it's completed, I assume the infrastructure would have plug-ins at pretty much every parking space. When you plug your car in, a coded ID would get sent to the power company so they'd know who to bill (kinda like using your credit card at the gas station, except set up so nobody could swap the plug to their car after you've left).

That was really the intent of the EV mandate in California. It wasn't "EVs are being held back by the oil/car companies, so we'll force them to build them" like has been portrayed here in past discussions. It was to get past the chicken and egg problem. Without charging stations, EVs were limited in where they could go so people wouldn't build/buy them. Without EVs, there was no incentive to build charging stations. The EV mandate was really about getting the ball rolling on building EV infrastructure.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By Grast on 7/10/2008 4:10:13 PM , Rating: 3
One small point to your eutopian idea? Where does the electricity for all of these plug-in vehicles come from? How do you suppose the electric distrobution system be upgraded to handle this new load? Where do all of the batteries generated by these electric car get deposed?

These are all questions when anwsered explain why the EV was a failure and cost effective at this time. As you pointed out, this topic has been discussed extremely often on this blog. Simply hoping that a technology can do the job with little real evidence does not make the technology viable.

We need a replacement energy carrier and batteries as storage devices are not the anwser. I see no reason to pollute the earth with high levels of heavy metals and lithium for this so called green effort.

Later...


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By Solandri on 7/10/2008 4:30:05 PM , Rating: 3
1. The electricity for these cars represents less energy than is burned by current cars in fuel.

2. As I said below, there's plenty of excess electricity generating capacity overnight.

3. I have no problem with EVs dying the way they did. They need to be shelved until battery technology improves by an order of magnitude or we find a suitable alternative.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By TomZ on 7/10/2008 5:06:33 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
As I said below, there's plenty of excess electricity generating capacity overnight.

That's not exactly a solution, for two reasons:

1. What about people who need or want to charge up during the day, e.g., someone arriving home from work around 5pm and wants to recharge so he/she can drive again later in the evening?

2. There isn't even close to enough excess capacity at night to handle any kind of large scale EV usage in this country. Do the math.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By clovell on 7/10/2008 5:36:20 PM , Rating: 2
> 1. What about people who need or want to charge up during the day, e.g., someone arriving home from work around 5pm and wants to recharge so he/she can drive again later in the evening?

PHEV

> 2. There isn't even close to enough excess capacity at night to handle any kind of large scale EV usage in this country. Do the math.

I prefer to use yours ;)


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By Irenicus on 7/10/2008 4:38:31 PM , Rating: 1
Calm down man and get up to date. Power during peak times is an issue, but for most of the day this is not an issue as there is excess power. Conversely, stations could be wired to charge MORE during peak times to charge, thus discouraging this charge window. Another possibility is allowing cars to be charged during the day, allowing the option of the energy companies to take power out of the car battery during spikes of energy usage. This is a win win, those spikes of power beyond their allotted capacity cost them ALOT of extra money, by tapping a portion of energy in car batteries during some momentary peaks it would allow for savings for the energy companies, in exchange, you may even get a charge for free or reduced cost.

As for battery disposal, I expect the batteries will be recycled as the lithium will become increasingly valuable. Again, do not go off the rails before the details are revealed.

As for energy carriers, you have two choices in the foreseeable future, batteries, ultra capacitors, or some combination of the two. Super high density ultra capacitors would be ideal due to faster charge times and vatly improved robustness, but until these come online we are stuck with batteries, and that is OK, just as nuclear waste is OK, it can be managed.

What is NOT, EVER going to happen is getting everyone to bike to work, or van pool, this economy is built around cars in most areas and there it will stay. And for the foreseeable future Freight will be using diesel for a long time. And EVERYTHING travels by trucks at some point. Don't like this reality, tough, and grow up. Learn to live with the world we have, and make the improvements we can make, without cutting off limbs as some ultra greens would have us do.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By Spuke on 7/10/2008 5:24:10 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Calm down man and get up to date. Power during peak times is an issue, but for most of the day this is not an issue as there is excess power.
Maybe your state has excess power but California doesn't even have enough power to run people's A/C's during the summer without rolling blackouts/brownouts. And shifting the plug-in times to off peak hours will eventually turn the off peak hours to peak hours.

And before you say BS, consider a swamp cooler (evaporative cooler) is just a simple electric motor turning a fan. An electric car will require more power than that and I can see the difference running the swamp cooler makes in my electric bill. Sure it's cheaper than running the A/C but it draws noticeably more power than not running it. An electric car will be more like running the A/C continuously for most of the night.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By clovell on 7/10/2008 5:38:55 PM , Rating: 5
All good points, gents. Recall, though, that there wasn't exactly a nationwide infrastructure for gasoline filling stations when Henry Ford started producing autos en masse.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By diabloazul126 on 7/10/2008 7:07:54 PM , Rating: 1
Wasn't the whole, 'rolling blackout' just Enron turning off power plants to decrease supply? I'm sure we(California) use a lot of juice, but I'm not sure if we're to the point of blackouts just yet.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By Spuke on 7/10/2008 10:11:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Wasn't the whole, 'rolling blackout' just Enron turning off power plants to decrease supply?
Nope! They still go on but only when there's a heat wave. As a matter of fact, there were some at the earlier this week. If it didn't happen in your area, then you're lucky.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By Tsuwamono on 7/10/2008 10:36:10 PM , Rating: 1
Not lucky, just lives in a better neighborhood. Who's the power company going to turn power off to? a project or Malibu...


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By Spuke on 7/11/2008 1:07:00 AM , Rating: 2
It has nothing to do with a better neighborhood. Malibu, Calabasas, etc have had rolling blackouts before.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By TheriusDrake on 7/10/2008 7:28:27 PM , Rating: 2
The problem with power during peek times is people using their AC systems, which pull 30 to 80amps in homes, and way way beyond this for commerical systems. There is no way that the amount of power needed to charge a car system over night (which is when people would be charging the cars the most, on average) could compare to the power being used from the grid when all those AC systems are running during peek times.

I don't know how much these systems are going to pull to charge, but it shouldn't be any where close to running a 2 to 5 ton AC or heating system.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By masher2 (blog) on 7/10/2008 7:43:55 PM , Rating: 4
> "I don't know how much these systems are going to pull to charge, but it shouldn't be any where close to running a 2 to 5 ton AC or heating system"

Let's do the math. The GM Volt has a 16 KWH battery capacity. That will most likely be charged at a bit under 15 amps (the max a standard NEMA plug can draw) for a draw of, say, 1500 watts ... what your standard hair dryer pulls.

That's a 10 hour charge time, at a rate about half what a 4 ton A/C unit pulls....but an A/C unit doesn't generally run 100% of the time, even on the hottest days. Meaning charging even a single car might average a higher draw than the A/C unit.

Also, a single household might charge 2 or even 3 cars at once, for a draw well above even a 5 ton system on the hottest of days.

But the biggest problem is that, while many will charge overnight, some will not. They'll charge during the day, boosting peak usage even higher.


RE: Apartments/Condos?
By Spuke on 7/10/2008 10:13:25 PM , Rating: 2