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Nissan Dual Injector Fuel System  (Source: Green Car Congress)
System promises better fuel economy and less emissions for small displacement engines

There is a big push in the automotive market to move to vehicles that get better fuel economy and produce less polluting emissions. A myriad of technologies from hybrid cars to full electric vehicles are being explored to help reduce the need for fossil fuels in America.

Nissan, who recently received a $1.6 billion loan from government bailout funds, has announced a new fuel injection technology that will help improve fuel efficiency in small displacement engines and reduce emissions. The new system uses dual fuel injectors and will be used in gasoline engines with port fuel injection (PFI).

Green Car Congress reports that most PFI engines use a single injector per cylinder, but the new Nissan system uses two injectors -- one for each intake port. Nissan says that the new injection system is a first for a production passenger can and reduces the fuel droplet size by about 60% compared to a single injector system.

The smaller fuel droplets mean better fuel vaporization, less unburned fuel, and reduced hydrocarbon emissions. The new injection system will be used in production vehicles starting in 2010. The PFI dual fuel injection system is about 60% cheaper to produce than more complex direct-injection systems that place fuel directly into the combustion chamber.

The more efficient system also needs a catalytic converter with about half the amount of rare metals inside and that number could be reduced to about 75% less precious metals when used with ultralow-rare-metals catalysts that debuted in 2008.

Nissan corporate VP Shuichi Nishimura said, "We consider it important to further improve the fuel efficiency of gasoline engines as demand for gasoline and other internal-combustion systems continues to increase around the world. By widely applying the Dual Injector system on small-displacement engines, we hope to help reduce CO2 emissions and conserve rare metals."



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Well done Nissan
By retepallen on 7/15/2009 11:39:59 AM , Rating: 3
Everyone harps on about how good hybrids are, or how we cant recycle lithium. What we really need to do improve how we burn normal fuel and use less materials. Well done Nissan for coming up with something useful and cheap!

*This is on top of the other efficiency of just driving less.




RE: Well done Nissan
By FITCamaro on 7/15/2009 11:43:20 AM , Rating: 1
How much less do you think people can drive? The vast majority of people go to work, go to the store, and go out once in a while. Are we all supposed to stay home?


RE: Well done Nissan
By Storkme on 7/15/2009 12:01:16 PM , Rating: 2
There are other ways to get around. I cycle to work, to the shops, and take public transport into town (though actually I wouldn't recommend this, too expensive).

World would be a better place if more people walked places. Does wonders for your sense of well-being.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 12:11:03 PM , Rating: 5
The world would be an even better place if pompous fools didn't tell other people how they should try to live their lives.

"The shops" in my neighborhood are 15 miles from my house. Ever try to walk a 30 mile round trip while carrying a week's worth of groceries, or a couple 50 lb bags of fertilizer for the lawn?


RE: Well done Nissan
By yomamafor1 on 7/15/2009 12:17:48 PM , Rating: 3
QFT.

Unfortunately that seems to be a huge problem here in the states...people who thinks they know better always telling others how to live their lives, regardless of scenarios.


RE: Well done Nissan
By omnicronx on 7/15/2009 1:09:28 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Unfortunately that seems to be a huge problem here in the states...people who thinks they know better always telling others how to live their lives, regardless of scenarios.
Live it up Americans, you all know whats best!

I just can't wait for all the games to play 40 years down the line. Perhaps Spot the American under 200lbs?, or Find the American with teeth?. And don't forget everyone's favorite, spot the diabetic!.. I can't wait!!


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 1:16:26 PM , Rating: 5
How about we play "spot the European who doesn't ignorantly extrapolate a trend"? We don't even have to wait 40 years for that one.

FYI, Obesity rates in many European nations are increasing faster than they are in the US:

http://www.eubusiness.com/Health/060911143043.axb5...

And in the US, much of the increase in obesity is due simply to changing demographics -- blacks are, depending on area, anywhere from 10% to 300% (!) more likely to be obese than whites:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_20_...


RE: Well done Nissan
By Lord 666 on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By Woodsy on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By albundy2 on 7/15/2009 11:03:06 PM , Rating: 2
are you canadian and is your name scott?

those that watch southpark will see where i am going with this.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Woodsy on 7/15/2009 11:35:53 PM , Rating: 2
Scott: I'm wishing cancer upon you.
Terrance: Cancer?!
Scott: Yes. I'm trying to give you cancer with the power of my mind.

OK I took it a bit too far. Sorry I vented, I met up with a cute lady and I am not so angry heheh.


RE: Well done Nissan
By albundy2 on 7/16/2009 4:40:10 AM , Rating: 2
touche


RE: Well done Nissan
By Lord 666 on 7/16/09, Rating: -1
RE: Well done Nissan
By WackyDan on 7/16/2009 1:55:17 AM , Rating: 2
"You don't think there are Canadians with a bit more than an AK-47"

No... there are not.Your gun control laws made that rare.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 1:27:25 PM , Rating: 4
Um, there are a million ways to exercise without having to walk everwhere you want to go.

I exercise a ton (play 2 sports) but when I want to get somewhere, I want to arrive fast and without sweat dripping off me.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 2:05:55 PM , Rating: 3
The OP didn't just "mention walking" or exercise in general. He said the world would be better if people walked more and used cars less. Thats just flat out wrong.

And no, the time I "waste here posting" has zero relation to the time I save by driving. My car still saves me that time, which I then get to spend doing things I actually enjoy.


RE: Well done Nissan
By ClownPuncher on 7/15/2009 2:44:53 PM , Rating: 2
How is it wrong to say that if people exercised more that the world would be a better place?


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 2:50:10 PM , Rating: 3
If he has actually said that, no one would have complained. Try reading his post to find out what he actually DID say, and how it differs from your version.


RE: Well done Nissan
By ClownPuncher on 7/15/2009 3:56:03 PM , Rating: 2
Ok, I found it

quote:
You fat idiots are mistreating the planet, and you're fat, fatties.


I had to read pretty deep, but I found that quote between the lines.

I agree now, I take it as a personal insult and attack due to the fact that he said people should drive less and walk more. What nerve, huh?

Or... you could dry your eyes and just accept the fact that he has differing opinions than you.

But wait, maybe he is behind the Conspiracy to Make Us Pay Taxes Until We Die. That's it, this guys post is Mind Control and will be passed to legislation!


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:58:42 PM , Rating: 3
"maybe he is behind the Conspiracy to Make Us Pay Taxes Until We Die. That's it, this guys post is Mind Control and will be passed to legislation! "

That would be funny, except for the sad fact that people are ALREADY proposing (and in some cases, passing) just such legislation.

Live and learn.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:07:20 PM , Rating: 3
"You save time by driving yet failed to realize it's the same for anything you do in your life."

If you fail to see the advantage to spending an hour playing a fun sport, or even just surfing the web-- versus spending that same hour trudging through the hot sun on a dirty road, then I truly feel sorry for you.

But I suspect you DO see the difference and are just being hypocritical. Otherwise you wouldn't be here posting, you'd be out wandering the roads aimlessly somwewhere.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:15:42 PM , Rating: 2
"By God, I am confused and am wandering aimlessly somewhere."

Finally we agree. There is zero relationship between what you just said (and what you claim I said) and the rest of the thread.


RE: Well done Nissan
By mindless1 on 7/17/2009 9:43:04 AM , Rating: 1
Your arguments are nonsense.

1) If you CHOOSE to live 15 miles from any stores, DUMB YOU! Maybe if you had some thoughts about driving less you would have lived closer to stores.

2) It's deceptive for you to claim "through the hot sun" to take a walk, but OH you wouldn't mind it playing a fun sport? Walking is not some kind of torture and nobody forces you to lick the road, actually the roads are plenty clean enough unless you forgot to put shoes on.

Walking can be quite enjoyable. You meet new people, can take time to look around far moreso than driving.

I'm not suggesting someone NEEDS to walk instead of driving, but walking is a perfectly viable alternative for those who don't have a mental block against it or made poor life choices like living many miles away from modern conveniences like stores.

It's kinda like the fools who live in the desert then whine about lack of water. Duh.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 1:57:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Telling everyone that you think others are telling you what to do is your own insecurity lol.
So, if you're not telling other people what to do, what ARE you doing?


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/2009 2:02:05 PM , Rating: 2
You are giving your opinions, sharing your ideas, conversion with others, having fun, joking around. I know you're not like this. Your post have been more sensible than "thinking" someone saying something can be compare to one pointing a gun at you and actually forcing you to do something. This whole subject is getting ridiculous.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 5:23:53 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
This whole subject is getting ridiculous.
The problem I have with his statement and others like it is that he can voice his opinion and we're supposed to think, "ok, that's his opinion", and move on but when a person like FIT says HIS opinion, he's rated down, chastised, and etc. What the hell is the difference between one person voicing an opinion and another voicing theirs? None, as far as I'm concerned. And if it's ok to chastise one person for their opinion then it's ok to chastise the other person for theirs. I'm not a fairness Nazi by any means but this too blatant to let fly.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/2009 6:17:10 PM , Rating: 2
Ah FIT, my bad...should have followed the thread back up. Sorry :)


RE: Well done Nissan
By mindless1 on 7/17/2009 9:48:26 AM , Rating: 2
The difference "should" be whether the opinion is based on a philosophy that could work if universally applied to everyone, versus only a selfish "don't tell me what to do because I pretend to be free" attitude.

It's actually fine if that is someone's stance, but they should just come out and write that instead of making up nonsense arguments instead of admitting it.

For example, I don't give a crap about saving electricity. Screw people who do, I'll pay the higher bill when we start running out of fuels and let that decide if or when I cut back. I'll come out and say it instead of silly arguments about how something else is worse so what I do is somehow made acceptable because of that.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Hiawa23 on 7/15/2009 2:53:45 PM , Rating: 2
QFT.

Unfortunately that seems to be a huge problem here in the states...people who thinks they know better always telling others how to live their lives, regardless of scenarios.


I agree, especially the religious folks.


RE: Well done Nissan
By smackababy on 7/15/2009 4:04:46 PM , Rating: 1
I acutally find athiests to be far more hostile when it comes to forcing lack of religion upon people.


RE: Well done Nissan
By mindless1 on 7/17/2009 9:50:49 AM , Rating: 2
Me too, but let's face it that was just a jab at religion, it is not common at all to have people thrust religion on you today so much as security measures at airports, emission controls on cars, standards for lawn and sidewalk maintenance, what pets you can or can't own, and a ton of other things people became numb to because not all of it effected them personally, or because they chose the path of least resistance.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Storkme on 7/15/2009 12:24:48 PM , Rating: 3
Don't get cranky, I didn't tell anyone to do anything, just said the world would be a better place if more people did it. Was a suggestion is all.

Anyhow I never said it was for everyone, obviously for you it's not feasible but for a lot of people (particularly in a densely populated country like England) it'd be good for their health and their wallets.


RE: Well done Nissan
By psychobriggsy on 7/15/2009 1:28:39 PM , Rating: 2
I'm in England, in London, so there is a viable public transport service.

By walking instead of catching the bus to the tube every day, I get a bit of exercise, often get there before the bus (despite there being a bus "every 3 minutes" and the distance being over a mile), and save £1.60 a day over the Oyster travelcard price (as I only use it for work, so 5 days a week but charged for seven - why isn't there a commuter travelcard?). So that's about £300 a year in my pocket.

However outside London, public transport is a lot spottier, and not a viable option unless you use it for commuting, and thus live somewhere deliberately for its commuter friendliness.

So in America, where public transport sucks in comparison, and distances are far far higher, I don't see the point in making yourself suffer. Cycling, if the distance is under 5 miles, seems the best deal, for certain journies.


RE: Well done Nissan
By FITCamaro on 7/15/2009 1:53:44 PM , Rating: 3
I drive 2 miles to work. It would be a potential death sentence to even attempt to ride a bike down the road I drive down. There's no sidewalk to walk on either. And sorry but I don't want to walk in tall grass and dirt on my way to work in humid 90 degree humid.

I'm not knocking public transportation. It just isn't here and driving is the fastest, safest way to get to work.

People who think we should all do as they do, irregardless of the feasibility of it, annoy me. Not saying you just in general.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/2009 1:59:28 PM , Rating: 2
irregardless is not a word.

You drive your cobalt SS 2 miles? Dang, that's a shame to have the vehicle and only drive 2 miles each way :P I drive my Evo X about 40miles each way and loving it. Besides the gas it's fun :)


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 2:06:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
irregardless is not a word.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregard...

quote:
You drive your cobalt SS 2 miles?
He owns a GTO.


RE: Well done Nissan
By FITCamaro on 7/15/2009 3:48:48 PM , Rating: 2
Which isn't much better in the context he's talking about. :)

I'm actually considering getting a piece of crap beater to go back and forth to work in. Will save gas and its not good for the motor to go such short distances. Course will be changing soon since I'm gonna move.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 5:26:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm actually considering getting a piece of crap beater to go back and forth to work in.
if I had to drive that short of a distance, I would too but then my wife would probably want to drive my car all of time.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 2:12:06 PM , Rating: 2
"irregardless is not a word."

Wrong again. It's a word with nonstandard usage...just like every other word has been at one time, while it was originally gaining acceptance.

There isn't a word in the English language that at some point someone didn't make up (or steal from another language). Eventually, through enough usage, they became standard.


RE: Well done Nissan
By ClownPuncher on 7/15/2009 2:42:09 PM , Rating: 1
The only problem is that the word itself makes no sense. Regardless is the word you want, irregardless is a double negative. Since both words "mean" the same thing according to Webster, why use the one that doesn't make sense?

It's not that it's made up, the fact is...the root definition has no meaning in the English language.

quote:
irregardless

an erroneous word that, etymologically, means the exact opposite of what it is used to express, attested in non-standard writing from 1912, probably a blend of irrespective and regardless. Perhaps inspired by the double negative used as an emphatic.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/2009 2:55:16 PM , Rating: 1
Check out "A way with words" on kpbs.org you guys will love it. It's one of my favorite shows alongside Car Talk :)

Anyhow, "irregardless" isn't really a word although it is use and define. ClownPuncher already said it best. Why even bother to use it when you have "regard" and "regardless"? To me it's as though the person is trying to show off and fails flat on his face. Either that or the person using the word really has no clue why and what the meaning is.

Check out cracked.com as well. They have "top..." list of words that are misused or what have you. Pretty funny site btw.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 2:57:33 PM , Rating: 2
Do you have any idea how many English words and phrases "make no sense" if you think about them logically? Calling a song "cool" or a woman a "fox" makes sense? Or calling someone a "nutcase"? Do they actually carry a suitcase full of peanuts around? How about floppy disks that haven't "flopped" in 20 years? Or calling people "white" whose skin is anything but that color?

Your argument fails. Words mean what we want to them mean. Looking for logical etymologies in the English language is a nonstarter.

BTW, double negatives are in some languages and contexts a fully acceptable way of accentuating the negative connotation.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:11:06 PM , Rating: 2
I suggest you turn on your brain, rather than using a pathetic appeal to authority ("I suggest you consult a linguist"). Every word in the English language is a "made up word". Most of them make no sense from a logical perspective, and many of the ones we now consider standard were criticized by pedants at some point in the past.

Is "irregardless" an illogical construct? Sure. So are tens of thousands of other English words. So what? They're all still words.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/2009 3:18:10 PM , Rating: 1
http://www.cracked.com/article_15664_9-words-that-...

For the special you. :) Your opinions on this matter is so funny I refuse to debate on the subject on the fact that I will most likely LMAO for days. Not to mention your insinuation about "appeal to authority" comment. You think your knowledge is gain through magic? You think when you Google or read a book that you're not relying on the work of others?

Get a life dude. Seriously, you're making arguments for the sake of argument alone.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:24:32 PM , Rating: 2
"Not to mention your insinuation about "appeal to authority" comment. You think your knowledge is gain through magic? "

The logical fallacy known as the Appeal to Authority. Live and learn, "dude":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authori...

And yes, you certainly have refused to debate the subject. Irrespective IS a word, period. Does it have an illogical etymology? Yes..and so do tens of thousands of other words in the English language.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/2009 6:19:24 PM , Rating: 2
Here's the show, 28minutes into the show if you want some expert opinion besides my ignorance. Have fun LMAO.

http://www.waywordradio.org/typewriters-we-have-lo...


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/2009 6:45:07 PM , Rating: 2
I seriously think I'm talking to a child here >.>


RE: Well done Nissan
By 91TTZ on 7/15/2009 3:26:09 PM , Rating: 3
You are claiming that the word is legitimate because a lot of people (erroneously) use it. That doesn't make it legit, it just makes it a common mistake.


RE: Well done Nissan
By ClownPuncher on 7/15/2009 3:32:53 PM , Rating: 3
I agree, we should make the English language even worse by adding tons of words that make zero sense AND that we already had words for.

Double negatives may, in some languages, add emphasis to the negative connotation. But in english, a double negative has a cancelling effect, meaning you didn't say anything by using it.

Regardless - Less letters, has meaning
Irregardless - More letters, doesn't mean anything

The only reason it was added to some dictionaries is because Ignint Sumbish finally got his way.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:56:52 PM , Rating: 1
"I agree, we should make the English language even worse by adding tons of words that make zero sense AND that we already had words for."

You should apply the same standard to your own writing. What is a "ton" of words? Does that construct make sense? Words have no weight. Constructs like "make worse" or ending a sentence with the word "for" are also grammatical errors that only a century ago would have tagged you a hopeless illiterate for using them.

I'll skip the punctuation and capitalization errors in your post because the point is made. The entire English language is composed of iloogical words, phrases, and grammatical constructs that only gained legitimacy because millions of "Ignint Sumbishes" used them repeatedly.


RE: Well done Nissan
By ClownPuncher on 7/15/2009 4:16:13 PM , Rating: 3
Even the dictionary definitions always say

quote:
Use regardless


What you propose is Word Anarchy, and I will have none of it, sir.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By TSS on 7/15/2009 8:45:32 PM , Rating: 2
And finally, anyone who uses the terms Irregardless, a whole nother or all of the sudden shall be sent to a work camp!


RE: Well done Nissan
By 91TTZ on 7/15/2009 3:23:55 PM , Rating: 3
Give up. You're trying to justify using an incorrect word. Just because a lot of people make that mistake doesn't legitimize it.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:28:18 PM , Rating: 1
" Just because a lot of people make that mistake doesn't legitimize it."

Ah, but that's exactly the point. As any real linguist knows, if enough people use a construct for a lengthy enough period of time, that DOES legitimize it.

Worst of all, you don't even realize you just agreed with me. Irregardless is a word, as just admitted. Sure it's a nonstandard usage...but I said that from the start. I was merely refuting the person who claimed it wasn't a word at all.


RE: Well done Nissan
By 67STANG on 7/17/2009 1:27:49 AM , Rating: 3
Crap. Does that mean "Cadillac Converter" is going to be a real word soon? That one REALLY pisses me off.


RE: Well done Nissan
By jabber on 7/15/2009 6:57:05 PM , Rating: 2
This is a fact I've noticed quite a bit on my trips to the USA. Often if you wish to walk...you can't. The infrastructure is so designed around the car that pedestrianism has been forgotten.

I've found on a several occasions I've stayed at a hotel/motel and the diner is just 200yds down the road but there is no footpath/sidewalk to get to it. In the car you get, otherwise it's Frogger time!

Quite frustrating if you are used to walking places if it's just a mile away or so. Maybe in time it will change.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 2:04:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't get cranky, I didn't tell anyone to do anything, just said the world would be a better place if more people did it.
Don't be an a$$hole. You said the world would be a better place if people would walk more implying that the world would be worse if people didn't walk more. There's more to life than walking and quality of life is determined by a myriad of things mostly personal to the individual. I personally could care less if the person next to me is a fat a$$. That's their issue and I feel no need to mention it (like you cowards would say ANY of this in person).


RE: Well done Nissan
By ClownPuncher on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 6:04:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So now you're telling everyone of us that we should not walk and that there's much better way to live?
You quoted what I was saying so there's no need to repeat it.


RE: Well done Nissan
By theapparition on 7/15/2009 12:26:16 PM , Rating: 4
Well obviously you live too far away. We must get you and your family moved into a local cube right away.

What? You have three children. That simply won't do. One must be removed right away, you have too many. And we will provide the only sustenence you'll need. Soylent Orange. But once a month you'll get some tasty Soylent Green!

Seriously though, I love how others keep insisting that we live like them.


RE: Well done Nissan
By brybir on 7/15/2009 12:29:44 PM , Rating: 3
Can you imagine if people had to do this?

30 miles carrying 50lbs would take care of the obesity problem in about 3 months. "Want to eat....go fetch...and by the way its 15 miles each way...good luck"

But yeah I have to agree, I am all for environmental conservation, hybrid cars, electric vehicles, etc but because I think its great to see innovation and diversification of the auto industry. This leads to greater consumer choice and a more vibrant market. Better markets and better choices lets each individual find the car that is best for them and their situation.

Myself, I would love to have a Honda insight for a commuter car, and a Dodge charger SRT-8 for fun. But it snows a lot here 4 months of the year so its just not a great choice for safety. So, both cars are out of the picture and I have a Trailblazer. I drive it year round. It gets pretty poor gas mileage. But, I dont want to trade off the utility and safety of a 4WD for the economy of a small 2WD hybrid. I should be able to make that choice without being told I am a bad person, or being told I am somehow part of the problem etc.

That said, the next time I buy a SUV I would not mind at all buying a hybrid if the price tradeoff is worth it. Just give me the choice at a reasonable price and myself, and I suspect many others, would just at the chance.


RE: Well done Nissan
By superunknown98 on 7/15/2009 2:37:39 PM , Rating: 2
I know that whole 30 miles thing is a joke but it would take me 5 hours to walk that far. I think people should walk more too, but it isn't realistic for most of the country to walk to work or the store. Because of time, luggage and practicality.

If you don't disagree with an idea you are silently agreeing. And this is why I suspect so many people are complaining.


RE: Well done Nissan
By mindless1 on 7/17/2009 10:02:21 AM , Rating: 2
Ask yourself why it isn't realistic.

It's not realistic because people chose where to live with the assumption it is ok to drive long distances in their car. It's quite understandable that they don't want to give up this luxury and freedom, let alone those in poorer health who can't stand temperature extremes but for the rest of us it's a simple choice. Choose to live close to where you spend your time, or choose to drive a lot of miles instead.

Fortunately we live in a country where we have the freedom to make that choice, but let's at least be honest about it. One can move closer to their place of employment in many cases, or pick a place to work closer to where they live.

This alternate way of thinking goes against the past years when we've enjoyed more luxury than our economy can continue to afford us. Like it or not things WILL change. They already are.


RE: Well done Nissan
By glenn8 on 7/15/2009 2:02:50 PM , Rating: 2
The counter argument here is that no one is saying to "always" bike or walk... just that you should do it when feasible.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 2:09:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The counter argument here is that no one is saying to "always" bike or walk... just that you should do it when feasible.
YOU should do it!! I will do whatever I want to do.


RE: Well done Nissan
By glenn8 on 7/15/2009 2:24:43 PM , Rating: 2
That's a flawed statement to make.
Firstly if people can do "whatever they want" then they should be allowed to tell people what they "should" do. You can choose not to listen.
Secondly, if you are allowed to criticize people for telling people what they should do, then they are equally allowed to criticize you for needlessly driving and polluting the air.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 2:30:49 PM , Rating: 3
The problem is that history shows us that people who say things like "the world would be better if you just did xxxx" don't tend to stop at just running their mouths. They go out and vote for laws (or politicians who propose laws) to FORCE the rest of us to actually live by their misguided principles.


RE: Well done Nissan
By glenn8 on 7/15/2009 2:39:47 PM , Rating: 2
Some people being wrong does not equate to everyone being wrong. There are certain things that people should and shouldn't do. Especially things that would affect other people's quality of life. For example you wouldn't want me to come to your neighbor and blast my music day and night. Smoking in restaurants is another example.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 2:59:29 PM , Rating: 2
What any of that has to do with the current argument is beyond me. Saying "the world would be a better place if people walked to where they needed to go" is just plain wrong. It's also a totally different statement than "people should get more exercise".


RE: Well done Nissan
By glenn8 on 7/15/2009 3:05:17 PM , Rating: 2
It has to do with it. If you're driving excessively, then it extra pollution to the air among other issues. The air that we all share? It's analogous to someone smoking in a restaurant and me having to breath it in. Laws that would protect my quality of life is OK in my book.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:20:18 PM , Rating: 2
" If you're driving excessively, then it extra pollution to the air "

The type (and more importantly, the model year) of car you drive has far more to do with emissions than the amount you drive. Someone driving a 70s-model clunker 1 mile a day is generating more pollution than many 2008 cars driven 100 miles a day. (Fact)

But more important, the idea that my driving a car in most areas is "hurting your quality of life" is pretty stupid. In a few highly-congested city centers, maybe -- IF you have asthma or some other condition. Otherwise no.


RE: Well done Nissan
By glenn8 on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:50:58 PM , Rating: 3
"If this is a fact then prove it."

I guess you aren't old enough to remember the 70s, or you wouldn't even make sure a statement. You don't recall the huge cloud that used to hang over LA? Today the air there has less than 1% the particulates and 10% the VOCs as it did in 1970, despite the fact that total population and miles driven have both exploded.

Hell, in the 1950s, London was so bad that in one single three-day period, several THOUSAND people died just from direct results of smog. The air was so dark that you couldn't see the sun even at noon, and buses and trucks had to employ "spotters" to walk in front on them and guide them.

"And if I do have asthma? "

It is your argument that is flawed. By your "zero tolerance" standard, no one has any right whatsoever to drive..or even to use electricity, light a barbecue grill, or even crank up a weedeater. Sorry pal, but it don't float.

The reality is that today the air is clean enough in 99.95% of the nation that air quality doesn't impact our health. If you're extremely sensitive, then boo freakin hoo. Natural air pollutants from pollen, nold, dust mites, animal hair, or a million other things are going to cause you more concern than auto exhausts.


RE: Well done Nissan
By glenn8 on 7/15/2009 4:31:25 PM , Rating: 2
First of all, I don't get where you get "zero tolerance" from when from the get go I said:

"The counter argument here is that no one is saying to "always" bike or walk... just that you should do it when feasible. "

And just because something doesn't kill you right away doesn't mean it doesn't add up through the years. You yourself said that smog in concentrated amounts can kill people. Ever try smoking.. or second hand smoking? I suppose you don't support banning smoking in restaurants either?


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 6:13:51 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
And just because something doesn't kill you right away doesn't mean it doesn't add up through the years.
If something takes 30 years to kill me, would I know the difference between that and dying from a myriad of other causes? If you are so concerned, there are plenty of places in the country where harmful auto emissions are a non-issue. But like another poster said, there are other harmful emissions other than auto emissions that, if you have asthma or other related health issues, you should be more concerned with than auto emissions. Also, like another poster said, cars are an order of magnitude cleaner than their 70's counterparts. It's not even comparable. And those that have lived through that time period are not dying in droves nor have major health problems because of it.


RE: Well done Nissan
By glenn8 on 7/16/2009 8:42:56 AM , Rating: 2
Let me rephrase what you said in with smoking in its place to put your logic into perspective:

"If second hand smoke takes 30 years to kill me, would I know the difference between that and dying from a myriad of other causes? If you are so concerned, there are plenty of other restaurants where second hand smoke are a non-issue. But like another poster said, there are other harmful emissions other than smoking that, if you have asthma or other related health issues, you should be more concerned with than second hand smoke . Also, like another poster said, cigarettes are an order of magnitude cleaner than their 70's counterparts. It's not even comparable. And those that have lived through second handle smoking are not dying in droves nor have major health problems because of it."


RE: Well done Nissan
By Keeir on 7/15/2009 7:22:47 PM , Rating: 2
Glenn8 - "If this is a fact then prove it. Besides the majority of people aren't driving 70s clunkers. Any reduction in driving is a reduction in pollution."

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/detailedchart.pdf

To be eligible for sale starting in 2008, an -auto- must meet at least Bin 10 of the Air Pollution Stanards.

If we assume PM is the most important of these pollution chemicals by health, A car sold in 1982 could emit 15 times the PM. Early than 1982, and it could emit whatever PM it wanted to

If we go with C0, a smog forming chemical, A Car sold in 1975 could emit 5 times as much C0.

If we look at NOx, A car sold in 1975 could emit 10 times as much.

Oh, and this was when the 70s car was -new- the expected outcomes. After so much time, most 70s car will have significantly degraded and be producing significantly more pollution. In 2006 (Bin 3/4) it was possible to buy a significant number of cars that produced 1/200th the NOx per mile 1/120th the PM per mile, and 1/15th the CO per mile as required in 1970.

http://hybrid.autobytel.com/content/shared/article...

Some highlights: Chevy Cobalt 2.2L, Honda Accord 2.4L, VW New Beetle 2.5L.

This is one of the reasons I dislike Obama's cash for clunkers program. Allowing people to switch in poorly maintained (but driven) cars older than 1993 would have an immediate and signficant reduction in -actual- pollution, regardless of the miles per gallon.


RE: Well done Nissan
By mindless1 on 7/17/2009 10:08:33 AM , Rating: 2
Actually the FACT is, most people don't drive 70s clunkers, the FACT is very very few cars still on the roads pre-date modern emission controls.

The FACT is that people who drive a lot of miles are the primary polluters regardless of how you want to try and twist facts in isolation.

If you really think you need to drive X number of miles, I will agree that the car choice can reduce emissions per mile. On the other hand if you can't understand quality of life issues from motor vehicles then perhaps you should look at population density around cities where smog can easily be observed. That it doesn't effect citizen X living in the boone docks is no consolation for many in society.

You wrote "If you have asthma" but what did you think CAUSES respiratory problems? Certainly there's more than one cause but you should have a strong hint right about now what one of the common causes is.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Arribajuan on 7/15/2009 5:10:54 PM , Rating: 2
Most of American cities (big ones at least) are designed to be used with cars.

Everything is miles away.

Try crossing a freeway by foot? You cant, you need a car.

i could say it is really stupid to drive so much. For my situation it is. For many others it is not even an option.

Needles driving should go. People should get the weekly groceries instead of driving daily to get today's stuff. But if the man needs to drive 15 miles to get groceries, driving needs to be done.

Good for Nissan for getting more efficient engines.


RE: Well done Nissan
By MrX8503 on 7/16/2009 8:21:18 AM , Rating: 2
boo hoo,

We all can't have everything we want in life. Life sucks get used to it.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Yawgm0th on 7/15/2009 2:26:26 PM , Rating: 3
When there are six inches of snow on the ground is it really unreasonable that I don't feel up for a two or three mile bike to various stores or a twenty mile bike to work? Is it okay if I never want to bike twenty miles to work? If my non-existent bike is not practical for carrying groceries or other things, may I just take my car and burn up that 20th of a gallon?

Also, may I stick with my 30 minute commute instead of taking an hour and half's worth of bus routes? Is that okay, or am I hurting the world too much?

Let me know what you think is okay for my life situation and I'll get right on it. Thanks.


RE: Well done Nissan
By hyvonen on 7/15/09, Rating: -1
RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 1:10:00 PM , Rating: 5
The US is "broken" because we're not all crammed into ultra-high density urban centers? Goodness, do people not stop to think before they post? Public transport is LESS efficient than cars when population density is low.

And even in cities, its often a royal pain in the a**. Sure its great if you're young, have no kids, and don't need to ever cart around heavy objects or large quantities of goods, but try dealing with public transport with a large family and things to buy for the house every week.

(And yes, I used to live in a city where public transport was the only option.)


RE: Well done Nissan
By hyvonen on 7/16/2009 8:38:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The US is "broken" because we're not all crammed into ultra-high density urban centers?


See, that's one of the problems. American McMansions sprawling all over the place around urban centers - they make it difficult to have an efficient public transportation, and consume way too much energy to heat/cool (oh and don't even get me started on the poor construction quality, which is part of the reason why houses leak like mad).

Americans believing that they DESERVE to consume energy without any regard to the global impact (scientific consensus states global warming is caused by humans) is simply irresponsible and selfish.

Overall, any vehicles with <30mpg city should be banned altogether for general public (obviously there can be business reasons to allow for larger vehicles).

I think it's time for all americans to follow Europe's lead, and step up to the moral high ground - take some responsibility for the condition of the Earth, and do something about it.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Scabies on 7/15/2009 1:18:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Maybe Obama's stimulus bill will finally bring the America's public transportation systems up to the european standard.

Don't count on it. Public Transportation doesn't win elections.


RE: Well done Nissan
By kattanna on 7/15/2009 1:24:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't count on it. Public Transportation doesn't win elections.


if the cap and tax plan goes through, that might just change.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 2:12:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
if the cap and tax plan goes through, that might just change.
You still need a ton of money to get these things built and running. You can't get blood from a turnip. None of the public transportation systems in the LA area make money and lots of people use them. It's just too expensive to operate.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Sanity on 7/15/2009 1:27:23 PM , Rating: 5
It's not our public transportation system that would need fixed. We would need to change our whole way of life. How many people live within walking distance (no more than 20-30 minutes) of their necessities? A tiny percentage. We live miles away from things like our jobs, grocery and hardware stores. When the country was growing, we had the room to spread, and cheap transportation made the long distances financially viable. everyone moved out of the city, where there might have been a grocery store a block or two away, and into the urban sprawl where people drive to a centralized location miles away for pretty much everything.

In Europe, things have been established in much tighter quarters for a whole lot longer, and they were established before cars and cheap gas.

Here in the US, the entire social and economic system is still based on cheap transportation, and it will take a HUGE and widespread overhaul to change that. That stimulus bull, I mean bill, isn't even a drop in the bucket for that kind of change.


RE: Well done Nissan
By FITCamaro on 7/15/2009 1:57:23 PM , Rating: 2
The grocery store is about 3 miles from me. But lets see a 20 minute walk through dirt and high grass along a road with people going 50 mph on it there and back or a 3 minute car ride where I'm not potentially going to drop my groceries. Not to mention I don't go to the store just for a few things. My trunk is normally full when I go because I get everything at once.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 2:23:41 PM , Rating: 2
Mine's about 8 miles but we go 20 miles because it's cheaper and we don't just shop at one store. We get our meat and veggies from other stores. And since we're out we'll get gas, eat lunch, buy hay, or anything else we need to do. Most suburban Americans make one trip to get everything instead of making multiple trips. Once a month we buy groceries and whatever else for the next month plus a little extra just in case. Most suburban Americans do this. Not sure about city dwellers but most of my friends in the city have the same or similar behaviors.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/2009 8:56:31 PM , Rating: 2
As far as my experience, city dwellers take one trip, but the one item come back, forget they need to get another thing, go back..often to a different store, come back and repeat :)

For all you sensitive men out there, this does not in any way imply that EVERYONE does this or should do this. Walk, drive, swim, have sex on the way, whatever.... :)


RE: Well done Nissan
By Ammohunt on 7/15/2009 2:32:44 PM , Rating: 2
For the purposes of illustraion and for the benefit of Europeans and other urbanites. Use Google earth to find the the town of Nunn,Colorado close to where i live; the most affordable groceries are in Windsor Colorado SW of Nunn and i commute to Denver everyday for work south of Nunn. Do the mileage America is a BIG place. The sad fact is that public transportation in America is for Hobo's,College kids and Drunks that lost their license.


RE: Well done Nissan
By psychobriggsy on 7/15/2009 1:37:46 PM , Rating: 1
Rail and bus based transport operates best when a city is laid out according to it's geography - a dendritic development model, extending out along major highways and valleys, creating natural bus/tram/rail routes.

As soon as you lay things out differently, this fails.

As soon as you get below a certain population density, it fails, as there aren't enough people to sustain a route, or the route would have to be too windy to be fast enough to be desirable.

And everyone in the UK drives to the supermarket and other superstores. But we do all (even in most villages) have walkable distance, fairly decent shops for everyday items. Most developments have a commercial centre, even if the development is residential.

I don't think the US is broken, it's just different, and it's a young country and hasn't achieved the population density of Europe yet.


RE: Well done Nissan
By FeralMisanthrope on 7/15/09, Rating: 0
RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:33:32 PM , Rating: 2
Suburban sprawl is a serious ADVANTAGE to the US. Why do you think we keep building (and living in) those suburbs? And moving OUT of those city centers that have all these "benefits" of public transportation, shops close by, etc?

As for "having our cake and eating it to", shouldn't it be the point of society to do just that? Otherwise we'd still be living a 14th century lifestyle, barely better than animals.


RE: Well done Nissan
By theapparition on 7/15/2009 11:45:12 AM , Rating: 5
No, not well done.

This system is less efficient than direct injection. It is better than traditional single injector systems, but falls short of being better than DI. However, it is cheaper than DI, which in the grand scheme of things, DI probably only adds $100 or so to cost of an engine.

Emmissions are said to be comparable to DI. That's from everything I've read so far about the Nissan dual injection.


RE: Well done Nissan
By FITCamaro on 7/15/2009 11:55:42 AM , Rating: 2
You sure direct injection only adds about $100? If this was true, I would think every engine would be DI now. Maybe its only $100 more in parts, but I imagine its far more to develop a DI engine than a PFI engine.


RE: Well done Nissan
By yacoub on 7/15/2009 12:15:10 PM , Rating: 3
No, but every -new- engine might be. And remember that most manufacturers do not produce a engine every model year. More like once a decade on average.

And in fact more -new- engines are featuring DI.


RE: Well done Nissan
By theapparition on 7/15/2009 12:16:37 PM , Rating: 2
It's not just parts content, the entire heads and fuel system has to be redesigned. Can't retrofit it into existing designs. That means literally billions of development dollars.

But rest assured, any new engine developement will surely be DI or some newer technology like HCCI.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 2:26:31 PM , Rating: 2
Ford says it costs $500.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 2:32:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Can't retrofit it into existing designs. That means literally billions of development dollars.
If you're making a new engine then the money would be spent anyways. The price difference between the DI and non-DI CTS is $2300 according to their website but you also get the 6 speed auto standard which is a $1300 option on the non-DI CTS.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 12:42:11 PM , Rating: 2
Agree. Cadillac's DI versions were running about $3k higher retail per model. Most of that is markup I'm sure, but I can't believe the base cost of that is only $100.


RE: Well done Nissan
By theapparition on 7/15/2009 2:00:43 PM , Rating: 2
Really?
Does Cadillac offer same model year cars with same engines in DI and non-DI variants for accurate comparison?

Thought not.

Items are priced by worth, not just parts cost.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 2:09:44 PM , Rating: 2
You thought wrong then. Cadillic DID offer the exact same car and engine on the same model year CTS -- the only difference was the DI.


RE: Well done Nissan
By theapparition on 7/15/2009 2:54:45 PM , Rating: 2
Than it's not the same engine, is it? DI is not something you throw on like a cold air intake.

Hence my previous comment, value is what things cost. If Cadillac offers something that is inherently more valuable by offering more power and greater fuel efficiency, they are going to charge whatever the market will bear.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 3:01:16 PM , Rating: 1
As Cadillac themselves said-- its the same engine, modified to accept DI. In other words, as close as you can get to a direct comparison of what DI costs to add .


RE: Well done Nissan
By Spuke on 7/15/2009 6:47:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
as close as you can get to a direct comparison of what DI costs to add .
See my post above, the difference is $2300 and $1300 of that is the 6 speed auto transmission. Ford says it costs them $500 to implement DI. Even at $1000, it's still cheap enough to implement on most cars. If you offer navigation on a car, you can offer DI.


RE: Well done Nissan
By kaoken on 7/15/2009 12:02:28 PM , Rating: 2
Where do you see this information. From the source of this article, DI is a more efficient system, 4% more to be exact.


RE: Well done Nissan
By theapparition on 7/15/2009 12:21:58 PM , Rating: 2
I think you misread the article.

In conjunction with this dual injector setup, Nissan is implementing VVT on exhast valves as well. Almost all VVT systems only change timing for the intake valve(s). All total, fuel efficiency increases by 4% over traditional Nissan engines.

There was no comparison to DI, other than cost, in the source article. However, I've been casually involved with their design for a while.


RE: Well done Nissan
By AlexWade on 7/15/2009 12:53:51 PM , Rating: 2
Nissan engines are already fairly efficient to begin with. The V6 engine Nissan has is used on just about every vehicle they make and they have been using it for a long time. Thus, they have had lots of time to fine tune it and make it reliable. My Nissan 350Z has 280 HP. It was rated for 26 MPG highway under the old standards, but I can easily get 28 MPG by not running the AC. With my other safe tweaks -- better air filter, slightly overinflated tires, better motor oil -- and when I take the convertible top off, I get 30 to 31 MPG at 60 MPH. Not bad for 280 HP.

What I like best about this technology is that it will be in production soon. Some of these breakthroughs are years away from production and mass market. It may only be 4%, but every little bit can add up.


RE: Well done Nissan
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 1:17:35 PM , Rating: 2
Um, you should have 289HP on that 350Z actually, IIRC.


RE: Well done Nissan
By theapparition on 7/15/2009 1:58:20 PM , Rating: 3
Let's see, since we are comparing sports cars.

That "efficiency" pales in comparison to the 400hp LS2 in the Corvette that also got 26mpg highway by the old standards. And it's city mileage was comparable too.

So a 43% increase in available power for similar EPA numbers sounds like GM engineers worked a little bit better on that one.


RE: Well done Nissan
By 91TTZ on 7/15/2009 3:21:23 PM , Rating: 2
Not really, that's just the nature of a large displacement engine. It'll have the potential to produce a good amount of horsepower at higher RPMs while still being able to deliver good fuel economy if you keep the RPMs low.

A small 4 cylinder engine would bog down if you tried to shift directly from 1st to 4th gear, but on the Vette it's got the low-end torque to do that.


RE: Well done Nissan
By The0ne on 7/15/2009 8:58:41 PM , Rating: 2
For example my Evo X :(


RE: Well done Nissan
By kattanna on 7/15/2009 12:05:56 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
*This is on top of the other efficiency of just driving less.


LOL! thank you for my days belly laugh


RE: Well done Nissan
By Hiawa23 on 7/15/2009 2:49:29 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone harps on about how good hybrids are, or how we cant recycle lithium. What we really need to do improve how we burn normal fuel and use less materials. Well done Nissan for coming up with something useful and cheap!

*This is on top of the other efficiency of just driving less.


I agree 100%. I have always asked, why can't they make more better fuel efficient gasoline engined vehicles cause lets be honest, those hybrids most people will not be able to afford, so there must be a way for auto manufacturers to get more out of gasoline engines, not diesel, as I would never want to buy a diesel engine vehicle. Good to see Nissan stepping up to the plate instead of just gravy training the hybrids & electric vehicles like alot of companies instead of making big breakthroughs for the technology that we already have.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Keeir on 7/15/2009 7:50:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I agree 100%. I have always asked, why can't they make more better fuel efficient gasoline engined vehicles cause lets be honest, those hybrids most people will not be able to afford, so there must be a way for auto manufacturers to get more out of gasoline engines, not diesel, as I would never want to buy a diesel engine vehicle.


Wait... your buying a new car and 21,000 for a strong hybrid and 18,500 for a weak hybrid in the "compact" car class is unacceptable? (A class with prices ranging from around 14,000 to 40,000, with high points around 17,000)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/opinion/10cox.ht...

According to this in 2006, the middle fifth spent 7662 dollars a year on transportation. With an average household size of 2.5, this likely just 2 cars. Removing 2,500 for gasoline and insurance... this leaves close to 4,000 a year to spend on the actual car (s).

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut...

Average price of a new car sold is 28,400.

Enough is enough. Cars less than 25,000 are -affordable- for most people. Cars with long term operating costs before a 4 cylinder Camry are -affordable-. SUVs/Trucks with long term operating costs less than a F150 are -affordable-. America has shown that the majority of purchasers in the new car market can indeed afford these things.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Omega215D on 7/15/2009 10:28:45 PM , Rating: 2
This was addressed in an article in one of my old motorcycle magazines. It turns out that the more stringent emissions that come through the pipe the more fuel mileage will go down. There was quite a bit more than that and made a really good read but I can't seem to find it.

This was in a British based motorcycle magazine.


RE: Well done Nissan
By Samus on 7/15/2009 6:59:33 PM , Rating: 1
Still not as good as direct injection. So in other words, its worthless technology. And expensive.


Interesting
By FITCamaro on 7/15/2009 11:42:14 AM , Rating: 3
An interesting design. Gonna suck when you need new fuel injectors though.




RE: Interesting
By bhieb on 7/15/2009 12:07:05 PM , Rating: 2
Should've had a V8 (pun intended). Since you will need 8 injectors for that 4 banger anyway ;)


RE: Interesting
By Jimbo1234 on 7/15/2009 1:28:23 PM , Rating: 2
If I recall, didn't ford use dual spark plugs in the Ranger in the 80s? Yeah, that didn't last either. Audi paved the way with DI, so the developement has been done. The dual injector tech is temporary.


RE: Interesting
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 1:38:03 PM , Rating: 2
Audi? Mitsubishi led the way to production cars with DI..the first European models all licensed their tech.


RE: Interesting
By Jimbo1234 on 7/15/2009 8:40:05 PM , Rating: 2
Except none of those engines could meet emmission specs. VW/Audi developed their procuction DI engines from the R8, not by licensing Mitsu technology, and is the only manufacturer to use only DI engines across the board.


RE: Interesting
By SandmanWN on 7/15/2009 1:41:22 PM , Rating: 2
My 99 Ranger has dual spark plugs. Its purpose is to create a cleaner burn and less emissions. The engine was originally designed to be used as a generator and burn liquid petroleum.

What any of that has to do with dual injection is beyond me. Sounds like you have confused two totally different technical aspects.


RE: Interesting
By Jimbo1234 on 7/15/2009 8:43:13 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not confusing anything. I'm just making the analogy that is was a temporary solution, as will dual port injectors. You cannot accurately meter fuel flow into a combustion chamber when it is injected into the intake runner. Some fuel will always settle on the walls and not go into the cylinder. Therefore an O2 sensor is required to close the loop. This is not as efficient as DI.


RE: Interesting
By FITCamaro on 7/15/2009 3:49:37 PM , Rating: 2
The Hemi has dual spark plugs.


RE: Interesting
By lagomorpha on 7/15/2009 11:58:13 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention the newest generation Suzuki SV650 (to meet emissions it was either dual spark plugs or add a cat and they went with the cheaper solution), Aprilia RSV1000, BMW boxer-twins, and a whole list of other motorcycles. And then there's the RX8...


RE: Interesting
By clovell on 7/15/2009 2:36:01 PM , Rating: 2
I kinda wish they would have said how much more efficient Dual Injectors were than Single Injectors. And would there be any HP/Torque gains/losses? Compression Ratio? Exhaust Pressure, etc... Seems like just another lame press release to me.


RE: Interesting
By 91TTZ on 7/15/2009 3:57:17 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. This isn't going to be a big improvement. Even 20 years ago car designers purposely aimed the fuel injectors at the back of the intake valves to. The droplets vaporize on contact with the hot valves. Using more fuel injectors isn't going to have much of a benefit.


This the way to go
By Jonh68 on 7/15/2009 11:57:10 AM , Rating: 2
Put research into making combustion engines more efficient and research alternative fuels. Hybrid technology is a stop gap and the money would be better spent in the above areas.




RE: This the way to go
By corduroygt on 7/15/2009 12:09:57 PM , Rating: 2
IC engines are pretty much as efficient as they can be given their operating parameters and cost. There isn't that much more room for improvement, due to laws of thermodynamics. I say spend money on algae, there's a lot of useless swampland in florida for starters.


RE: This the way to go
By Jonh68 on 7/15/2009 12:40:34 PM , Rating: 3
The above article proves otherwise in regards to room for improvement. Ford has a new engine that can get the power and torque of a v8 out of a v6 with more efficiency.


RE: This the way to go
By corduroygt on 7/15/2009 11:41:40 PM , Rating: 2
This is not an improvement over DI technology. And just because Ford just thought of putting DI and Turbo on an engine, doesn't mean it's new. I believe the most efficient an IC engine can be is 47% or so, the best that can be done is to limit engine operating conditions to an optional set. This is what hybrids do.


RE: This the way to go
By lagomorpha on 7/16/2009 12:03:04 AM , Rating: 2
"Ford has a new engine that can get the power and torque of a v8 out of a v6 with more efficiency. "

Its too bad they'd rather sell/people would rather buy their V6 that has the power of an I4 with the efficiency of a V8 (2009 Mustang V6 210hp, 20mpg combined).


RE: This the way to go
By onelittleindian on 7/15/2009 2:07:05 PM , Rating: 5
"there's a lot of useless swampland in florida for starters. "

Lol can you imagine the enviro-nuts reaction if we actually tried to use that useless swampland to produce fuel for our vehicles?


Work from home.
By Mitch101 on 7/15/2009 12:31:51 PM , Rating: 3
Improving efficiency of cars is one step in the right direction but I think we need to improve the business model.

More companies should expand their work from home programs. Most people I work with have the option every now and then to do their job from home and like myself I get more done that way and wish it could be all the time. I don't physically need to enter an office.

1-Office space is at a premium so there is a company savings especially in heating and cooling, equipment etc.
2-Should reduce or eliminate the late for work issue. How much money is lost here to late for work or cant get to work issues? Or how many know someone who has to leave at a specific time to pick up their kids.
3-Reduce traffic which in turn will help those who need to physically be in a specific location.
4-Reduce pollution as said above less commuters.
5-Reduce dependency on foreign oil
6-Reduce road construction costs.
7-Improve financial status because cars can be a big cost.
8-Reduce car insurance premiums.
9-I wont get sick as much from co-workers who show up to work sick and get others ill.
10-No more high daycare costs.
11-More quality time at home because you lose the commute which would reduce stress.
12-Tax deduction using the home for work.
13-Could probably afford to pay me less because I would be saving on gas, car maintenance, illness from co-workers, etc.

Thats is just off the top of my head. I know 13 is a problem for some but I would trade some pay for a work from home position. I just go to the office to work virtually now if you need to see me add a web cam.




RE: Work from home.
By kattanna on 7/15/2009 1:18:43 PM , Rating: 2
it is unfortunate that for a lot of jobs, that simply isnt possible.


RE: Work from home.
By Jimbo1234 on 7/15/2009 1:30:37 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
10-No more high daycare costs.


That doesn't really work as well as you'd think. I tried it for 3 months and didn't get any work done with the my kid in the house. Parenting is a full time job in itself.


RE: Work from home.
By Mitch101 on 7/16/2009 11:07:26 AM , Rating: 2
Duct Tape. Just Kidding.

The high cost of daycare its cheaper for the wife to stay home and watch the kids.


Orignal Corvette ZR1 - LT5
By shabodah on 7/15/2009 2:44:49 PM , Rating: 3
I dunno if Nissan considers a Corvette a passenger car, but, the LT5 engine had two sets (primary & secondary) of eight injectors. It also had butterfly valves on the high rpm intake ports, to keep air velocity at low rpm as high as possible. I suppose since the injectors were different sizes for each cylinder (one smaller, one larger), it is not exactly the same as this design, but, it isn't really much different, either.




RE: Orignal Corvette ZR1 - LT5
By lagomorpha on 7/16/2009 12:07:14 AM , Rating: 2
Honda has done a similar thing with the injectors on the CBR1000RR. A pair of injectors are located at different distances from the valves, one optimized for low rpm and the other for high rpm performance. This sounds like a different setup with symmetrical injectors though. Would be entertaining if 5 valve/cylinder and this tech both caught on (now with 3 blades err I mean injectors per cylinder.)


I'm not conviced of this technology.
By 91TTZ on 7/15/2009 3:54:22 PM , Rating: 2
The article says that this helps by reducing the droplet size in the spray, but just about every engine designed in the last decade or two has the fuel injectors spraying the back of the intake valve. When the engine is running, that valve is hot enough to vaporize the fuel on contact.

It's not like liquid droplets make it into the cylinder.




By lagomorpha on 7/16/2009 12:10:19 AM , Rating: 2
Just about every engine designed in the last decade or two has 2 intake valves per cylinder. This is going to spread out the vaporization between the intake valves allowing for a better fuel mixture and atomization.


Here it goes...AGAIN
By Cullinaire on 7/15/2009 7:16:34 PM , Rating: 2
What we seriously need is a way to rate entire threads, and not just posts. It's hard to "not read" worthless threads when they comprise the vast majority of the space here.

Just an idea, and I know, this post has nothing to do with the article either.

Oh all right, what about this: Nissan should have gone one better and added a third injector!




Bailout?
By PrezWeezy on 7/15/2009 8:20:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nissan, who recently received a $1.6 billion loan from government bailout funds...


It was not a bailout fund. It was a technology incentive program. Bailouts were for companies who were failing just to keep their head above water. Nissan received this money as an incentive to create more fuel efficient cars. That really puts them in a bad light saying it was a bailout.




Hacky way to do it
By toyotabedzrock on 7/16/2009 1:50:29 AM , Rating: 2
Although this approach is a valid one, smaller injectors are able to deliver more accurate fuel quantities, they would be much better off with direct cylinder injection at high pressure.




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