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Sony PS3 outsells Xbox 360 in June to grab second place for the month

The video game industry is booming around the world despite economic downturns seen in some countries like America. Three firms are battling for the gamers’ money around the world including Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft.

Bloomberg reports that the Nintendo Wii outsold the Sony PS3 and Microsoft Xbox 360 in the U.S. last month. Nintendo sold 666,000 of its Wii consoles in June compared to the 405,500 PS3’s sold and 219,800 Xbox 360’s. It’s interesting to note that the PS3 sold nearly 200,000 more units for the month than the Xbox 360.

Both Sony and Microsoft recently increased the size of the hard drive inside their respective consoles to lure new buyers. The minimum hard drive on the PS3 will now increase to 80GB with the Xbox 360 growing to 60GB. NPD Group says 10.9 million Wii consoles have been sold since it launched in November of 2006 – that tally pushes the Wii past the Xbox 360 in total U.S. sales despite the Microsoft’s consoles one-year head start.

The Nintendo Wii is still all but impossible to find in many areas of the country, something Nintendo keeps promising to remedy with increased production of the consoles. The gaming industry as a whole is booming right now with total industry sales rising by 53% to $1.69 billion in June, up from $1.1 billion in June of 2007.

Bloomberg reports that console sales have grown 54% to $615.1 million from $399.2 million last year despite. NPD analyst Anita Frazier says that total sales for the gaming industry in 2008 are likely to reach $22 billion.



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A Fad?
By mikefarinha on 7/18/2008 11:16:51 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Nintendo sold 666,000 of its Wii consoles in June compared to the 405,500 PS3’s sold and 219,800 Xbox 360’s.


Whaaa???? But I thought the Wii was just a fad?!?!?




RE: A Fad?
By ThatNewGuy on 7/18/2008 11:18:49 AM , Rating: 5
This just shows that innovation and gameplay is far more important than pretty graphics.


RE: A Fad?
By audiomaniaca on 7/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: A Fad?
By mikefarinha on 7/18/2008 11:37:02 AM , Rating: 5
I am sure. Game play is the soul of video games, just as usability and user experience is the soul of Apple (MS really needs to get on this!).

Enhanced hardware opens up additional possibilities for game play, but really there hasn't been massive innovation since the big switch to 3D environments... Everything just keeps looking better, I mean is Quake all that different from Crysis?

Nintendo broke the mold with the Wii. Everyone knows this but the PS and XBox fanboys.


RE: A Fad?
By kelmon on 7/18/2008 1:09:07 PM , Rating: 1
It's a shame that I've wasted my opportunity to vote your comment up, but that's bang-on the money. Gaming hasn't changed much in years and that's the reason why it doesn't interest me anymore. I hope that something happens, such as the appearance of a new genre, to bring something back rather than just rehashing old titles. I don't want to take anything away from new AAA titles because they're no doubt the best of their genres, but for me they don't advance things sufficiently that I'm interested in playing them. Starcraft 2, for example, will probably be the best RTS but at the end of the day it'll be another RTS and I've played enough of them over the years that they don't "do it" for me anymore.

To be fair, the Wii doesn't advance gaming much but it has a new way of interacting with the games such that they feel a bit different.


RE: A Fad?
By MonkeyPaw on 7/18/2008 1:23:20 PM , Rating: 5
What about those of us who have played the Wii and didn't like it? I really wanted one for a while, but once my friend got his and I played it more, I really didn't care for it much. I don't doubt it's innovative, but it just doesn't interest me, and I know I'm not alone in that. You can call that "Fanboy," but I just call it personal preference. Call me lazy, but when I play games, I just want to use my digits, not flail about. I'm not some chunky middle-school kid who needs to be tricked into exercise, as I get that playing sports, mowing the lawn, etc. And I can have just as much fun playing COD4 or Halo with friends as someone playing Wii golf in group.

As for the Wii's qualifications as fad or success? That all depends on staying power and game selection, and it's too early to make that judgment yet. Nintendo has always had quality titles in the Marios, Kongs, and Zeldas, but it's the 3rd party development that never seems to bleed over. 7 years later, the PS2 is still quite popular--will the same hold true for the Wii? That depends on selection--people can't play Wii sports and Rock Band forever. The Wii's limited specs and different controls make it harder to port PS3/360 titles over, so it means the Wii will probably have to lean heavily on exclusive content. These days, exclusive content is getting rather rare. It's not impossible, though, since there are millions of Wii's out there, but can developers figure it out and deliver on time? That will answer the "Fad" question.


RE: A Fad?
By artemicion on 7/18/2008 1:25:10 PM , Rating: 3
I think the truth lies somewhere in between the pro-Nintendo camp and the pro-Xbox/PS3 camp.

Sure wii-mote motion controls are innovative and fun. But at the same time, the past three best Wii releases (IMO opinion, of course) Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and Mario Galaxy barely relied on the motion controls.

Of course those same games showed that simplicity is often all that is necessary for a video game, and maybe would not have benefited from enhanced graphics and whatnot, but has anybody else been frustrated with the Wii's castrated network capabilities? I would have loved to have headset voicechat while playing Mario Kart. I mean, at the very least the ability to talk to your teammates (SSBB), right? I mean, you basically have to call your friend up to set up a game with them with the Wii's networking system.

Further, look at Rock Band on Wii vs. XBOX/PS3. No online marketplace to purchase new tracks? Are you kidding me?

I guess the question is whether the difference in capabilities comes from the hardware (no HD = no DL content for Wii?) or if Nintendo voluntarily castrated their own system. That'd be depressing.


RE: A Fad?
By Calin on 7/21/2008 2:34:33 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, Nintendo voluntarily castrated their new system. Going with normal definition instead of High Definition (Ta Daaaa) was their choice - lower capabilities versus lower price and lower development costs. Until now, this has paid them back big time, as they might already have recouped all the development costs, while Microsoft and Sony are just starting to get a profit from their console sales. Couple that with the much higher hardware development cost (I only assume it was much higher), and the zero point is far away in the future for both XBox 360 and PS3.
Keep in mind also that, if the High Definition becomes the "de facto" standard and Nintendo will be forced to move there, it will need a new console to compete against what is already on the market (PS3 and XBox) - one can say Nintendo's Wii brought its hardware platform right into the 2005, while XBox360 and PS3 are already into the 2010.


RE: A Fad?
By wallijonn on 7/22/2008 12:59:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
if the High Definition becomes the "de facto" standard and Nintendo will be forced to move there, it will need a new console to compete against what is already on the market (PS3 and XBox)


The PS3 comes with standard video cables in the box, the XBox with standard cables, component cables or DHMI cables.

All Nintendo would have to do is jam in an HD chip to output in standard, component or HDMI. They wouldn't need to redesign a new console, just an updated one, ala the 360 (component to HDMI).


RE: A Fad?
By fibreoptik on 7/24/2008 12:42:00 PM , Rating: 2
The Wii is a Gamecube with Bluetooth, Wi-Fi and a fancy controller.


RE: A Fad?
By Complex Pants on 7/21/2008 3:30:44 AM , Rating: 2
I couldn't agree more. I own a Wii, and high end computer while those suit most of gaming needs, I still have the urge to get a high end gaming system for my home theater.

The Wii is great for parties and entertaining, but it really does lack deep, rich, games with great stories. Don't get me wrong, SSBB is an amazing game, but it really needed to have a system like Battle.net to run off of. Mario Kart is better, but still far from perfect. I don't mind the lack of voice communication, but the random play and the friend codes really get me. I understand that Nintendo doesn't want the Halo community to move it, but they need to ease up.

The other thing is Big N needs to release a USB HDD for the Wii, that would solve so many problems and it is so easy to do. All they need is a device like the WD Passports. They would be able to out storage space MS and Sony for less than $100.

To me, the Wii has a ton of innovation, but at the same time it has gimped itself and made it harder for people to develop for it.


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/22/2008 2:33:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The other thing is Big N needs to release a USB HDD for the Wii, that would solve so many problems and it is so easy to do. All they need is a device like the WD Passports. They would be able to out storage space MS and Sony for less than $100.


Except for the fact that both the 360 and PS3 support USB HDDs already. They just happen to have internal hdds also.

I swapped my 60 gig hdd to a 160 gig hdd in my PS3. I transferred all the data off the 60 gig to a USB 100 gig hdd, then transferred it back to the 160 gig when I installed it in my PS3.


RE: A Fad?
By drank12quartsstrohsbeer on 7/18/2008 11:44:02 AM , Rating: 4
quote:

Far? I'm not sure. It's important, but not far, otherwise, people would be still buying Coleco Vision.


If they still sold them, I darn sure would!!! Same with the Atari 2600, 5200, Intellivision, vectrex....

The gee-whiz factor with good graphics dissipates quickly, especially if the rest of the game is boring.


RE: A Fad?
By DFranch on 7/18/2008 12:16:38 PM , Rating: 2
I think you can get a 2600. Some company put an atari preloaded with a bunch of games into an atari style controller.

Nobody ever talks about the intellivision. I had a cousin who had one.


RE: A Fad?
By EnderJ on 7/18/2008 12:31:42 PM , Rating: 2
They have an Intellivision in a controller as well. I have one hooked up to the DVD/Nav screen in my car.


RE: A Fad?
By Schrag4 on 7/18/2008 5:22:28 PM , Rating: 2
INTELLEVISION!!!! Wow that takes me back!

Pro Wrestling, Utopia, Auto Racing, the list goes on and on. By today's standards, the graphics and sound were utterly horrible. But the games were genuinely fun to play, and I'm in agreement that a game can have the best graphics and sound in the world, but if it's not fun then it's junk. Gameplay is definitely the most important factor...


RE: A Fad?
By Wererat on 7/19/2008 11:50:25 AM , Rating: 2
You can get most of the great Intellivision games. I don't want to advertise but searching on "Intellivision lives" should point you in the right direction.


RE: A Fad?
By kmmatney on 7/18/2008 3:48:48 PM , Rating: 2
You can emulate all those systems on the PS3, I believe, since it can run a Linux OS. I'm thinking of buying a PS3 just for Blu-ray and emulating as many older consoles as possible.


RE: A Fad?
By Alexstarfire on 7/19/2008 5:20:00 PM , Rating: 2
So can my computer. And so can the 360.


RE: A Fad?
By akugami on 7/18/2008 3:50:21 PM , Rating: 4
Ahh...the Atari 2600...how I miss thee. I found you unwanted, with a busted RF plug in the back, which was promptly fixed. Thrown out with your stack of games, all alone and unwanted in the alleyway. We found you a home and you brought years of enjoyment. Until that dastardly Nintendo Entertainment System came into our home. That heathen stole our love and again you were left wanted, all alone.

Basically when we were kids we found an Atari 2600 in the back alley with a stack of games. It had a bad and loose RF plug in the back but we cracked it open and noticed there was a bad connection. After borrowing a soldering iron from school to fix it with, we had ourselves an Atari 2600 with games for free!


RE: A Fad?
By fibreoptik on 7/24/2008 12:56:29 PM , Rating: 2
or you can buy one at a garage sale with like 75 games for $5


RE: A Fad?
By Omega215D on 7/19/2008 12:50:49 AM , Rating: 2
Speaking of Atari, I bought some classic games for my Nintendo DS. Space Invaders Extreme , Tetris and a remake of Alleyway.

These games may be simple but they are addictive as hell. I just hope more classic stuff will come out for the DS, stuff like the original Donkey Kong.


RE: A Fad?
By DFranch on 7/18/2008 12:13:30 PM , Rating: 2
I loved me some Colecovision back in the day.


RE: A Fad?
By Spivonious on 7/18/2008 1:09:42 PM , Rating: 2
I still break out the Sega Master System and play some Choplifter every so often. That game is frickin impossible! Has anyone ever beaten level 3?


RE: A Fad?
By Denigrate on 7/18/2008 11:22:06 AM , Rating: 2
By a factor of 100. My favorite games for my PS3 are the ones I downloaded from the Playstation store, and I don't think gameplay wise, any of the systems (haven't played Wii) have anything over the original XBox or PS2, maybe not over the original Playstation.


RE: A Fad?
By JasonMick (blog) on 7/18/2008 11:22:14 AM , Rating: 4
...And the 405,000 PS3 units show that if you're not going to have as much innovation in terms of play mechanics at least make the graphics really really darn pretty, prettier than the rest...


RE: A Fad?
By theflux on 7/18/2008 11:36:27 AM , Rating: 1
Not a Metal Gear fan, I take it.


RE: A Fad?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 7/18/2008 1:21:44 PM , Rating: 2
Never found the big draw with Metal Gear. Maybe us PC gamers are just spoiled.


RE: A Fad?
By DASQ on 7/18/2008 2:16:39 PM , Rating: 2
I was raised on PC gaming, but I do like the Metal Gear series.


RE: A Fad?
By Jedi2155 on 7/18/2008 3:01:26 PM , Rating: 3
Same here, I haven't had a console game since the turn of the millennium. But the MGS4 PS3 bundle just forced me to get a PS3....which is crazy since my only experience with Metal Gear was a cheapo demo of the first one I got free from Pizza Hut....


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/18/2008 6:21:31 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not much of an MGS player either. WTF kind of special ops only go on a mission with a handgun, single clip of ammo, and a grenade?

Also hate the lack of actual running. Not that BS, I'll just slowly jog to cover and magically enemies will completely forget I was there.

I'll never understand games like that. Even the latest GTAIV does that. Cause all cops stop giving chase if you are 1/2 mile away from them.


RE: A Fad?
By Aloonatic on 7/21/2008 4:25:39 AM , Rating: 2
You've clearly never been to the UK, the cops rarely even bother chasing you at all, most are even too lazy to get their own doughnuts. If it was a UK based game there would be about 6 cars for the entire map, and only 3 of them capable of chasing anything (the rest being diesel Focuses with about 90bhp) as there would a speed camera around every other corner and you'd get caught by that :)

You're spot on with the hand gun, knife, stun-grenade and 1 bandage non-sense that was typical of other Metal Gears, but MGS4 seem to have sorted most of this out and you never run out of ammo or big guns, give it a try, it's well worth it.

Back to the general point of cheap* Wii Vs expensive xBox/PS3...

The wii has remained in the consoles home territory and stuck to being a toy for the kiddies, where as the xBox and PS3 have both "grown up" with the original console generation who they seem to have assumed would be willing to pay a lot (relatively) for a console, and want to play mostly violent FPS and GTA style games, with the odd racing game in there too and can afford a big HD TV.

I have all three and my wii probably gets turned on more often that the others, but the amount of time spent playing games is far longer on my PS3/xBox.

The wii is fun for 10/20 minutes, but then you invariably get bored, whereas you can be playing MGS4, crackdown, GTA4, Gears of War etc etc for hours and not notice that it's gone dark outside and you've missed having you dinner again.

The wii and then xBox/PS3 are different beasts essentially, and have different markets when it comes to games and gamers.It would seem that they Nintendo have got their market research right and not gotten carried away with HD graphics for HD graphics sake.

Most kids don't really care as long as it's fun, and I doubt if there are many who have a HD TV in their bed rooms anyway.

*Amazing how the wii is still £180, where as the xBox (arcade) has dropped to £160 and still can't out sell the wii????


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/22/2008 3:08:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You've clearly never been to the UK, the cops rarely even bother chasing you at all, most are even too lazy to get their own doughnuts. If it was a UK based game there would be about 6 cars for the entire map, and only 3 of them capable of chasing anything (the rest being diesel Focuses with about 90bhp) as there would a speed camera around every other corner and you'd get caught by that :)


You clearly don't know me then, cause I've lived in Burwell, Cambridgeshire UK for 3 years.

I'm sure the cops would chase if I decide to drive on the sidewalk and plow down 50 pedestrians.

I'd say the reason the Wii doesn't have to much to worry about is the higher cost of the other two consoles, the presumption that they both need an HDTV, and the thought that both 360/PS3 don't have quick fast games also.

quote:
It would seem that they Nintendo have got their market research right and not gotten carried away with HD graphics for HD graphics sake.


I don't think either of them got it right or got it wrong. If they did get it right, then why are you bored playing your Wii after 10/20 mins? For a hardcore gamer, this just doesn't work. For a casual gamer, this is pretty fine. As I said though, this is hardly right or wrong.


RE: A Fad?
By Aloonatic on 7/22/2008 10:24:13 AM , Rating: 2
Glad that you live in the UK, it's great isn't it?

I was being light hearted and just having a general moan about our uselessly underfunded and undermanned police service (they stopped being called a police force a while ago as it was deemed to be too aggressive, which typifies the problem???) that we have to make do with. Maybe you get a much better service in Cambridgeshire than I do in my county?

That I clearly don't know you is pretty obvious???

quote:
I'm sure the cops would chase if I decide to drive on the sidewalk and plow down 50 pedestrians.

(we call side walks, pavements over here by the way. Using a term like side-walk may make someone think that you aren't from or living in the UK)

If there were any cops about, they wouldn't chase you if you ran over a load of people because you are clearly a maniac and chasing you would be dangerous for the public. They would take your number plate and rely on witness statements in order to track you down later when it's much safer for all involved.

Also, it is unlikely that there would be a police car anywhere near where you did this weird crime (and it almost certainly wouldn't be able to keep up with most modern cars with half decent engines as the standard patrol cars are woefully underpowered diesels or small petrol engined cars to save money) but the many thousands of CCTV cameras about may actually be working in a highly populated area, which you would need to commit this strange act of mass pedestricide and the CCTV video would useful in tracking you down and as evidence in court.

Not to mention that GTA is a computer game and therefore make-believe. It's a little scary that you think that people actually behave like Neko in real life???

Perhaps I should steer clear of town centres in Cambridgeshire?

quote:
I'd say the reason the Wii doesn't have to much to worry about is the higher cost of the other two consoles, the presumption that they both need an HDTV, and the thought that both 360/PS3 don't have quick fast games also.

You can buy an xBox 360 arcade for less than a wii and yet it is still lagging behind the wii in sales???

You do not need a HD TV to play PS3 or xBox games, but they are a nice bonus should you happen to get one latter.

I have a HD TV and the wii looks pretty crappy, even though it's only a 37" and I use the component cable.

Also, there are many little "quick" games for the PS3 that are lots of fun in short bursts.

quote:
I don't think either of them got it right or got it wrong. If they did get it right, then why are you bored playing your Wii after 10/20 mins? For a hardcore gamer, this just doesn't work. For a casual gamer, this is pretty fine. As I said though, this is hardly right or wrong.

As far as console sales are concerned (which is what this article is about after all), Nintendo have clearly got it right. They have sold more consoles than MS and Sony have managed and still continue to today.

I am bored after playing for a little bit but that means little in the grand scheme of things. Not everyone is a hard core gamer and perhaps people my age or hard core gamers are not exactly the target demographic for Nintendo?

After all, I am an individual and not the bench mark by which the success and failure of the console industry and their products are measured, although I am flattered that you think that I am.

To see who has really got it right or wrong though, I suppose the ultimate measure is profit in cold hard cash.

By this measure I would wager that Nintendo have done pretty well to.

No expensive "next gen" chips or lasers, no rings of death, no extended warranties nor replacements, no vast rage of units constantly needing to be marketed, just long queues for their consoles and games which they are struggling to cope with.


RE: A Fad?
By slashbinslashbash on 7/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: A Fad?
By DanoruX on 7/18/2008 11:23:19 AM , Rating: 5
Prettier graphics allow for previously unavailable game mechanics. So in a way pretty graphics are a requirement for innovation and gameplay.


RE: A Fad?
By Spivonious on 7/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: A Fad?
By deeznuts on 7/18/2008 1:16:42 PM , Rating: 5
Show me a square sneaking around a bunch of other squares patrolling a big square. Sound like fun?

Graphics are important, it's all that you're freaking looking at.


RE: A Fad?
By Spivonious on 7/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: A Fad?
By mles1551 on 7/18/2008 2:25:48 PM , Rating: 5
Tom Clancy is a bad choice for "current good game".


RE: A Fad?
By michael2k on 7/18/2008 2:43:49 PM , Rating: 5
Have you ever played the original Castle Wolfenstein?


RE: A Fad?
By kelmon on 7/18/2008 1:15:36 PM , Rating: 3
True, to a degree. But this is something with deteriorating rates of return. The jump to 3D really added something new to gaming but the ability to push around more and more polygons and higher textures hasn't advanced things much further. Do we really think that there are gameplay mechanics that the PC, 360 or PS3 can deliver that the Wii cannot? I don't.


RE: A Fad?
By DanoruX on 7/18/2008 8:27:22 PM , Rating: 3
I do - even HDR brings the element of playing with lights to a whole new level. Another example is Oblivion (especially with mods) allows gameplay with infinite draw distance, aka "see that mountain over there? that's where the next boss is" gameplay. Shadow implementations can affect player decisions. Subtle differences I know, but added together they make for a richer, more immersive experience.

Not to mention the PC/360/PS3 can have a lot more on (and off) screen than the Wii...


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/19/2008 9:10:02 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, a highly adaptive AI may need more power than the Wii is capable of. Something as such can adversely affect gameplay mechanics.

It'd be extremely easy to make the 360/PS3 do what the Wii can. This cannot be said in reverse.


RE: A Fad?
By Alexstarfire on 7/19/2008 5:24:27 PM , Rating: 3
Too bad current AI just sucks no matter what hardware it's on.


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/20/2008 3:19:13 AM , Rating: 2
Depends on what you're playing FEAR has some decent AI. By no means it it extremely great, but at least when you play the same lvl over and over again, it changes.


RE: A Fad?
By cmdrdredd on 7/19/2008 9:16:33 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Do we really think that there are gameplay mechanics that the PC, 360 or PS3 can deliver that the Wii cannot? I don't.


When You're playing online, and a shadow gives away your position...yes a SHADOW. That's a big deal. HDR effects blind you when you run out from a cave into a well lit area. Things like this add elements of realism to the fantasy world.


RE: A Fad?
By DASQ on 7/18/2008 11:29:09 AM , Rating: 2
Innovation itself gets old. It's only amazing the first couple times you use it. After that, it comes down to how well the gameplay can utilize innovation (which has been pretty poor from pretty much every developer except Nintendo...)

Seriously, my favourite game for the Wii is STILL the tennis from WiiSports.


RE: A Fad?
By GreenyMP on 7/18/2008 1:47:32 PM , Rating: 2
What? Did you just say "Innovation itself gets old"? Maybe I need to look up the definition of innovation.


RE: A Fad?
By DASQ on 7/18/2008 2:18:10 PM , Rating: 2
The individual innovation, not innovation in general (We're talking about the Wii, in case I need to clear that up for you too). Perhaps you need to look up the definition of 'context'.

The 'innovation' [motion sensing controls] gets old.


RE: A Fad?
By bobcpg on 7/18/2008 11:40:43 AM , Rating: 2
So True. Game play over graphics anytime. If not when why get a DS or play games on your phone.


RE: A Fad?
By ThatNewGuy on 7/18/2008 11:53:45 AM , Rating: 2
This is how developers should approach making games:

1) Gameplay
2) Story
3) Graphics

Many highly successful games in the past have followed this and is the reason they have been successful.

Anyways, the Wii allows for genuine and immersive fun where other consoles come short. My grandparents actually enjoy playing the Wii and have never played video games at all before then. I know getting them to try something would've been impossible if it were a 360 or PS3.


RE: A Fad?
By BansheeX on 7/18/2008 12:24:59 PM , Rating: 3
The mistake you are making is not seeing how 1 and 3 are interconnected. Certain types of gameplay are IMPOSSIBLE without certain levels of graphical prowess. Show me Half-Life gameplay on an NES if graphics don't have any relation to gameplay. Explain how HL2 would've been as enjoyable or even completable without physics and interactive environments. Explain how seeing something break or die the same way every time is as enjoyable as seeing something break in a unique way every time. Explain how 30fps is just as fun as 60fps. Explain how being only powerful enough to run up to 2-player multiplayer is as fun as being able to run up to 16-player multiplayer.


RE: A Fad?
By Screwballl on 7/18/2008 12:46:45 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Show me Half-Life gameplay on an NES if graphics


Its called Doom and Duke Nukem

quote:
Explain how 30fps is just as fun as 60fps.


So 60fps in a sucky game is better than 30fps in a sucky but great looking game (queue Crysis)? Some games play great and are smooth at 30fps, some look like crap under 60 fps, it all depends on the game, graphics, the system it is played on, resolution and numerous other factors.

Also remember that most console games are set to max out at 60-80fps so they can increase other aspects of the game without a loss in framerates... yet playing the same game on a PC using a higher resolution means some companies take out certain portions of graphics to compensate for the framerate... this is why ported-to-PC games suck in most cases and ported to console games typically look and run great!


RE: A Fad?
By BansheeX on 7/18/2008 2:14:49 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Its called Doom and Duke Nukem


Those are pseudo-3d, not possible on the NES. Doom was barely possible on the SNES. But it needed to include the SuperFX coprocessor chip on each cart, and even then, it ran like molasses. The PlayStation version was much better. How about Quake 3? Can we get Quake 3 type gameplay on even PS1 base specs? Might be hard to see what you're doing in 320x240 and it would slow to crawl with 16 people onscreen.

quote:
So 60fps in a sucky game is better than 30fps in a sucky but great looking game (queue Crysis)?


No, and you're right that graphics and speed is a tradeoff below the 60fps cap on consoles. But on average, a system that is more powerful will not have to make as many graphical compromises to stay above that cap. Whether it's reducing the polygons on models, compressing the textures, reducing the resolution, removing physics and particle effects, reducing draw distance.

I think the better argument to Wii fans is: do you think that if Nintendo became a developer and released Mario Kart and Smash Bros on the PS3, that those games would have played slightly better and looked better, too? Or did Nintendo's cheaper hardware sold at an even higher premium simply enable to make the game more fun? If that's true, why update the cpu and gpu at all with the Wii, since the less capable gamecube specs would've yielded even more fun?

See, I'm trying to put them in a box because they keep saying that better graphics comes at the cost of gameplay when it's simply not true.


RE: A Fad?
By NullSubroutine on 7/19/2008 3:37:11 AM , Rating: 2
Actually since I didnt have a powerful enough computer for a long time, I played Doom on SNE. It was fun, except if I remember correctly you couldnt save the game.


RE: A Fad?
By StevoLincolnite on 7/19/2008 9:32:35 AM , Rating: 2
Played 3D World Runner? Probably one of the more "Original" 3D games on the NES, you even had the choice to wear a set of "3D" Glasses (You know, the ones with the red and Blue lense?)
Rather addicting and fun.

Now onto Graphics... Oblivion requires a fairly beefy machine to run, You need something can do Direct X 9 SM2 shaders, 512mb of memory and all that other Jaz, now thanks to Old Oblivion people with much lower-than-recommended systems can run it, like people with a Geforce 3, or Perhaps a Radeon 8500 or a Matrox Parhelia or even an S3 Delta Chrome, paired with Pentium 4's starting at 1.4ghz (Some have gotten it to run on Late model Pentium 3's) and 512mb of SD RAM, people have been able to happily run around playing the game, the Graphics are not worth writing home about, but it does not lessen the games "Gameplay".

Ever had a moment when you had to go back to an old game and fire it up? And then spend countless hours playing it?

If Graphics are a major part of "gameplay" then why is StarCraft which was released in 1998 and uses a modified WarCraft 2 Engine a Korean National Sport?
- it doesn't use any form of 3D Acceleration, and employs a 2D Isometric view, and can run on early Pentium systems, heck even decently equipped 486 machines can run a small map with a few units easily enough.


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/19/2008 9:34:36 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Its called Doom and Duke Nukem


Ya, cause both those games allowed me to go in and out of a vehicle and also shoot from the vehicle. Or even waste time in the vehicle driving around an area that didn't even pertain to the games story. They also both allowed me to manipulate objects around me. *is sarcastic*

Haven't even said anything about the sound either.

quote:
Also remember that most console games are set to max out at 60-80fps so they can increase other aspects of the game without a loss in framerates... yet playing the same game on a PC using a higher resolution means some companies take out certain portions of graphics to compensate for the framerate... this is why ported-to-PC games suck in most cases and ported to console games typically look and run great!


And you have many games that were multiplatform to begin with. Designed around console and PC.


RE: A Fad?
By Spivonious on 7/18/2008 1:01:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Explain how HL2 would've been as enjoyable or even completable without physics and interactive environments.


So now "graphics" includes physics and interactivity?


RE: A Fad?
By BansheeX on 7/18/2008 1:48:02 PM , Rating: 2
Physics doesn't require greater graphical horsepower? What category would you put it in, then? Obviously, you Wii fans understand how system power helps achieve new things or you would never want Nintendo to sell updated systems every five years that set you back another $200 and might break backwards compatibility (like they've been doing this whole time). So instead of discounting it completely, you tier their importance and put graphics last, as if it has nothing to do with that new Zelda gameplay you're enjoying. All the art, all the effects, the CD-quality music, all the enemies on-screen without slowdown, none of it would've been so different and wonderful from A Link to the Past if you had stayed back on the SNES. And many would argue that Ocarina of Time is still the best. But are you really naive to believe that if OoT had come out on the Wii, it would have been prettier but less fun?

So somehow, despite history proving otherwise and what Nintendo itself has been doing, you have to now convince people that PS3 and 360 are are offering systems that are more powerful, more capable, more internet-ready, but all at the expense of ingame innovation, ideas, concepts, stories, challenge. That better graphical powers aren't simply a way of allowing more convincing environments and new types of gameplay, they're actually progressively siphoning resources away from gameplay. What historic precedent is there for this? We should have seen the effects of this by the Playstation era. Our games at this point should be nothing more than a perfectly modelled person standing on a street corner playing with himself.


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/19/2008 9:37:57 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
So now "graphics" includes physics and interactivity?


The the GPU is doing a lot of the physics work, yes.


RE: A Fad?
By masher2 (blog) on 7/18/2008 1:25:26 PM , Rating: 2
> "Certain types of gameplay are IMPOSSIBLE without certain levels of graphical prowess...Explain how HL2 would've been as enjoyable or even completable without physics and interactive environments."

Err, physics and interactive environments has nothing to do with graphic quality. There were games from the 1980s implementing quite accurate physics in 2D, 16-color graphics. As for interactive environments, I've long believed that high-quality 3D graphics has hurt that front. When you have to design an attractive, highly complex 3D model for every interaction you wish to model, such interaction gets very expensive to implement.


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/19/2008 9:42:09 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
When you have to design an attractive, highly complex 3D model for every interaction you wish to model, such interaction gets very expensive to implement.


And as such, game prices have gone up significantly. Now why is it that the Wii, while maintaining pretty much the same graphics as the Gamecube also gone up in price for games?

At least with the 360/PS3, I can see where my money is going.


RE: A Fad?
By ThatNewGuy on 7/18/2008 1:27:01 PM , Rating: 2
The mistake you are making is that you're not understanding me which is my fault. No doubt graphics are important and I like a little bit of eye candy like the next person. I'm just saying that graphics should not be the driving force behind a game.

HL2 is an incredible game and in my opinion meets the three items I specified in a different order. While it is difficult to make a shooter new and exciting when compared to others, that's where story and graphics come into play. HL2 was innovative in some aspects concerning weapons (gravity gun anyone?) but take away those neat little features and you've got yourself the same 'ol shooter.

I still play HL2 (PC is the best in my opinion out of all the consoles :P) quite often and never really get sick of it due to the storyline.

The point I was just trying to make is that some developers try to raise their polygon count to the limit while scraping by on any form of depth.


RE: A Fad?
By Alexstarfire on 7/19/2008 5:33:48 PM , Rating: 2
You, like many people, are confusing power with graphics. They are not the same thing. Raw power, like a CPU, has little to do with graphics, like a GPU. The CPU runs the physics, though that is likely to change, destructible environments, AI, etc while the GPU just renders them.

So, you could have real-time physics with NES graphics if the CPU was powerful enough. In that respect, the Wii is behind. We all need an alternative though. You think we'd see Nintendo like games on the PS3 or 360 if Nintendo didn't exist? Probably not.

If Nintendo made a console that had a great CPU, but only an average, or even sub-par, graphics card then it could certainly do everything everything you are asking about without amazing graphics.


RE: A Fad?
By joemoedee on 7/18/2008 12:30:57 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Anyways, the Wii allows for genuine and immersive fun where other consoles come short. My grandparents actually enjoy playing the Wii and have never played video games at all before then. I know getting them to try something would've been impossible if it were a 360 or PS3.


Any of the systems allow for genuine and/or immersing fun. The Wii is a bit more accessible, but that doesn't make it the most "fun" console as it's a relative term depending on each individual's particular tastes.

MS understands this, and is going to push for more accessible titles as shown at E3. As games have gone on, they've become more and more complex, and as such, have alienated some of the casual market that exists and has been wanting to play video games. (As shown by the Wii's sales numbers and pace)

Example. Football. Tecmo Bowl/Tecmo Super Bowl were incredibly easy to play. Two Buttons and a D-Pad. Practically anyone could pick it up and play. Madden 09? Not exactly going to be an accessible game. (It might be with their new 'Fair Play' system, that remains to be seen)

The ultimate "winner" will come down to who can bring in the casual and the hardcore gamer, without alienating one or the other.

The NES did.

The PS1 did.

The PS2 did.

Also, price is a huge factor. $199 and under will open the doors fully for any of the consoles.

The Wii currently has some games to satisfy the hardcore crowd, but not nearly enough to make it their sole console.

The 360 probably has the best potential to satisify both market segments they now recognizes the importance of the casual gamer market. (I think Xbox Live Primetime could be a huge push for them on the casual side) Their focus has been on the hardcore thusfar, and as shown from all of these posts, their fanbase is pretty solid.

Currently it seems Sony's approach is sell the PS2 for the masses, PS3 for the hardcore. Combined sales numbers of both consoles do show it working thus far. Once all efforts are put onto the PS3... history shows they know how to sell a game console. All that being said, it's way too early to declare any of the manufacturers the "winner"

The real winner through all of this is, well, us. All in all, it's a great time to be a video game fan. Period.

(As a sidenote and another ColecoVision reference, my Grandfather was incredible at Pepper 2 and LadyBug, probably the best I had ever seen on either game.)


RE: A Fad?
By omnicronx on 7/18/2008 1:07:57 PM , Rating: 2
+6 for the reply

+10 for this quote:
quote:
The real winner through all of this is, well, us. All in all, it's a great time to be a video game fan. Period.
Now if only all of us would stand back for a second and think like this before letting the bashing began.


RE: A Fad?
By cmdrdredd on 7/19/2008 9:21:40 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anyways, the Wii allows for genuine and immersive fun where other consoles come short. My grandparents actually enjoy playing the Wii and have never played video games at all before then. I know getting them to try something would've been impossible if it were a 360 or PS3.


Where's the fortitude all you so called gamers had back in the day? When to be a gamer ment you had to be serious about it. Where's the gallons of caffeine energy drinks you drank so you could stay up all night beating the latest game or getting the high score? You say its about "having fun together" well, damn...I had fun when I played a 37 hour Unreal Tournament match. More fun that standing in front of my TV waving my arms around like a escapee from the local mental ward.


RE: A Fad?
By neothe0ne on 7/18/2008 2:10:18 PM , Rating: 2
"This is how developers should approach making games:

1) Gameplay
2) Story
3) Graphics"

Um, no. Story is the least important aspect of a game. Many people play games simply for multiplayer, you won't find any story in there other than "frag the other guy" in most cases.


RE: A Fad?
By Scrogneugneu on 7/18/2008 7:46:32 PM , Rating: 2
That aspect is called gameplay, and it does come before story.

A game made to simply be an online FPS where you get to kill people has a set gameplay for that. If said game also has a single player side, the storyline will hook people to the game. Graphics come last.

Just think about this : how often do you fire up a very old game you have? Think about what makes you do it. Is it "The graphics were awesome", "The story was really cool" or "I miss that game, it was fun playing it"?


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/19/2008 9:49:00 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That aspect is called gameplay, and it does come before story.


Online only FPS would have graphics also come before story. Shoot, story shouldn't even be listed because of this.


RE: A Fad?
By Keeir on 7/20/2008 1:31:52 AM , Rating: 2
Don't think of "story" as just "story-line"

Story encompasses concepts such as settings, etc.

For example, counterstrike is pretty much a story-less Online game... but the setting, maps details, missions, weapon choices etc is the Story

In truth a good game is immersing and makes you forget your surrounds.

Graphics does play a role in this, and can be the dominate form, but IF graphics is so important, why are almost always the best games of a generation different than the graphical masters? Probably because there needs to be a balance between all three... which given the horsepower of the PS3/Xbox360 is becoming an incredibly expensive proposition because of only 1 aspect, graphics.


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/20/2008 3:45:37 AM , Rating: 2
Settings and objectives is not a story. Storyline is a detailed description of a story. A story is a sequence of events. What you are saying is a story is (setting, map details, etc) is just a precursor to a single event.

Also, you contradict yourself.

quote:
For example, counterstrike is pretty much a story-less Online game... but the setting, maps details, missions, weapon choices etc is the Story


As you said, it is story-less. So how does a setting, map details, missions, weapon choices, etc make a story? You just said it was story-less.

quote:
Probably because there needs to be a balance between all three... which given the horsepower of the PS3/Xbox360 is becoming an incredibly expensive proposition because of only 1 aspect, graphics.


It's about $5 more to get a PS3/360 game over a Wii game. Doesn't seem all that expensive if you add in the majority of PS3/360 games are online capable.


RE: A Fad?
By PointlesS on 7/18/2008 12:43:42 PM , Rating: 5
have you played the wii games? shaking a remote to perform an attack is innovation? I loved mario/metroid/boom blox as much as the next guy...but all of these games could be played with a controller with little or no compromise in controls

no one has innovated on the wii...there's way too many tech demos disguised as minigames and it's third party games can be downright horrible...I barely touch my wii (yes I know that sounds bad) and when I do it's for drunk wii bowling with friends...that's the only reason why I haven't sold it yet


RE: A Fad?
By Icelight on 7/18/2008 12:53:03 PM , Rating: 2
It's great then that the Xbox 360 and PS3 have enough power to support innovations in physics, AI as well as a host of other gaming possibilities.

I own all three (so please don't cry fanboy, I play what I enjoy, not what name is branded to it) and the "innovation!" of the Wii has dried up for me already. It's all the same now, waggle with a gesture instead of pressing a button. Wow. (Yes, I know there is a 1:1 controller add-on coming out...so now I get to pay more money to have something that should have been implement since day one, same as rumble for the Six-Axis/DS3)


RE: A Fad?
By BansheeX on 7/18/2008 1:10:52 PM , Rating: 3
I disagree with the automatic correlation that the Wii sales are indicating that its gameplay is superior. That's kind of like saying that Britney Spears must be the best direction for music because it was selling so much better than everything else. As usual, the console's strongest titles are first party (Nintendo). We know Nintendo makes great games. But the Wii is dead last in average library reviews since it attracts all the cheap assembly-ware games like Barbie's Pony Adventure and Anubis II. The primary reason the Wii sells so well is its control scheme is making it popular with a new demographic that was NEVER tapped into before: non-gamers. And they outnumber traditional gamers 10 to 1. The moms and dads and socialites of the world would have never touched an 8-button button layout, and they still aren't touching traditional genres like Marios or Metroids or Warcrafts or Half-Lifes or Top Spin or Street Fighters. Does that make these games "overly complex" and less fun, because Wii sports is outselling it and your mom or grandpa refuse to play anything with an 8-button learning curve or a single player story arch? Absolutely not.

So they're playing familiar athletic pastimes (bowling, tennis, golf), that they can play with others, using an easy control scheme that they can instantly understand. And Nintendo is marketing it like a trendy Apple product: in a glossy white case without "Nintendo" prominently on the box. There's really no other explanation for why it is selling so much better than the gamecube which shared the characteristics of cheap price and great first-party titles.


RE: A Fad?
By deeznuts on 7/18/2008 1:13:12 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
This just shows that innovation and gameplay is far more important than pretty graphics.
What does, the sales of Nintendo?

I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with price or advertising. It's not innovation and gameplay, it's advertising and accessibility. Mostly accessibility. Look at Wii Music. No game elements whatsoever, and it'll outsell everything like hotcakes. You want to see where Nintendo is heading:
http://kotaku.com/5026431/miyamoto-wii-music-is-be...

quote:
One question asked of Miyamoto was Wii Music's qualifications as a game. You know, a game game. Since Wii Music has no discernible scoring system, no goals and little in the way of those squishy innards that makes a game a "game," isn't it just a "musical toy"? That was the question posed by one European journo.

"Yes, that's right," Miyamoto curtly replied "And that's why it's better than a video game."


Wii is not a Fad. It's just not very good. And I have a Wii (actually all three consoles since I just bought a 360).

But saying the sales of the Wii shows that innovation and gameplay is far more important than pretty graphics, is like arguing McDonald's has better food than a Ruth's Chris, since they sell more units. It's not.


RE: A Fad?
By walk2k on 7/18/2008 2:01:29 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly, they sell more because it's HALF THE PRICE of the others (roughly). No surprise there.


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/18/2008 6:14:17 PM , Rating: 2
Til you look at the game sales and notice, not really.


RE: A Fad?
By gramboh on 7/18/2008 7:07:12 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly what innovative games are out recently? Not flaming, we own a Wii and other than Mario Galaxy (love it, I think I'm at 100 stars now) and a few hours of Zelda I haven't played it at all. I know I should get Mario Kart. Super Smash Bros doesn't interest me that much.


RE: A Fad?
By plinkplonk on 7/18/2008 11:19:13 AM , Rating: 2
more of a cult now it seems...


RE: A Fad?
By theflux on 7/18/2008 11:38:14 AM , Rating: 5
The Wii isn't a fad, it just isn't a good game console if you don't like Nintendo games. It will continue to sell like hotcakes, just like that singing fish did, but at the end of the day, who is still playing it? It collects dust at all of my friends houses, while their 360/PS3 is used often. If they do play a game, it's Wii Sports.


RE: A Fad?
By mikefarinha on 7/18/2008 11:45:05 AM , Rating: 2
To understand how the masses use the Wii you need to compare it to a DVD player. Most people often go weeks with out watching a movie, it doesn't mean that DVD movies are a fad.

Like a DVD player, the Wii is a causal pickup-and-go console. Simplicity is a major part of it's popularity.

Just because many dedicated gamers don't 'get it' doesn't mean it's substandard. It fits it's purpose perfectly.


RE: A Fad?
By Spivonious on 7/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: A Fad?
By theflux on 7/18/2008 1:14:11 PM , Rating: 2
Calling All Cars, PixelJunk Monsters, Warhawk to name a few quicks. There are many more.


RE: A Fad?
By afkrotch on 7/19/2008 9:50:25 AM , Rating: 2
Rockband.


RE: A Fad?
By tarv on 7/18/2008 5:46:02 PM , Rating: 2
PS3 moving 400k+ units is pretty impressive. Did they have some sale or major game come out?


RE: A Fad?
By cmdrdredd on 7/19/2008 9:10:19 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Whaaa???? But I thought the Wii was just a fad?!?!?


It is, people "gotta have it" cause all they see everywhere is Wii this and Wii that.


RE: A Fad?
By Hiawa23 on 7/21/2008 10:40:56 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know if the Wii is a fad, but It doesn't have 1 game that appeals to me, & after E3, Nintendo completely pissed on everyone other than casual gamers. I really don't care who comes in 1st 2nd 3rd, as I own all three, & all I care about is who makes the games or has the services I like, & so far, the Wii, my 10 year old loves, & the PS3 & 360 is my main gaming platforms.


RE: A Fad?
By Hiawa23 on 7/21/2008 4:39:51 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think the Wii is selling just cause it's inaovative. I think it is selling mainly cause it has mass casual appeal & open to a broader gaming segment, or the non gaming segment. I think outside of the Nintendo fans who like the Nintendo games the Wii offers nothing but mini-games & stuff like that, which don't appeal to me. Another reason is it is cheap, you don't have to invest in a HDTV, or surround system, I just think the console appeals to the more not tech gamers. Motion controls have ruined all the Nintendo games I used to love which is why I pulled out the Gamecube, & just enjoy the old Nintendo games with a traditional controller. I can't stand Mario/Metroid with motion controls, so all the Wii has done for me is allowed me to spend more time with my daughter, as she loves it.

I am more into hardcore action, fighters, racers, shooters, online with voice which is why I prefer the 360/Ps3, & I must have HD, & DD sound.

The PS3/360 is not at mass market price yet which is another reason the Wii continues to do well, & again, may never be since neither console caters to the casual market that much.

I have 50 games on the 360, all the Ps3 exclusives, so those consoles are all I need for my gaming. The Wii is fine for family gaming, but other than that it does nothing for me. I am glad to see Nintendo back doing well, & I am no fanboy, I just play the games, & the games I like are on the HD consoles.

The PC guys always come into these threads & look down on console gamers. I have a decent PC, plenty of money to max it out if I wanted to but I have never been into keyboard, mouse gaming, & have always been fine with consoles. The graphics on the consoles are good enough for me, & why compare them to PCs anyway when PCs can always be upgraded, while console specs are set?