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Gadgets Nintendo Responds to Lawsuit
Marcus Yam (Blog) - December 21, 2006 8:41 AM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 95 comment(s) - last by XtremeM3.. on Dec 28 at 6:10 AM
Nintendo says that the lawsuit is "completely without merit."

Yesterday we reported that law firm Green Welling LLP filed a nationwide class action lawsuit against Nintendo of America for defective wrist straps. Nintendo has offered an official rebuttal statement to the allegations, as carried in a GamesIndustry.biz story.

“We believe the lawsuit to be completely without merit,” read Nintendo’s statement. “Nintendo has a long tradition of delivering high-quality products and excellent customer service, and we take all reports from our customers seriously.”

“At the time we became aware of the lawsuit, we had already taken appropriate steps to reinforce with consumers the proper use of the Wii Remote and had made stronger replacement wrist straps available. This suit has had no effect on those efforts,” said the company.

The class action lawsuit awaits approval from a judge. Nintendo has already responded to wrist strap worries with stronger materials and safety reminders. Last week Nintendo started offering free wrist strap replacements for all Nintendo Wii owners, allowing its users to upgrade to the safer and hopefully less accident-prone equipment.

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How do you break the strap????
By mAdMaLuDaWg on 12/21/2006 9:58:07 AM , Rating: 5
Maybe I'm not playing my Wii the right way, but how in the world does someone break the wrist strap? Or more to the point, how does someone manage to let the Wiimote slip out of their hands.

Most of the times, I don't even use the strap and yes I do go through with the full range of motions in Wii Sports. Not once has the Wii mote even come close to slipping out of my hands.

This sounds more like consumer stupidity than anything else. I wish there were some way to bar stupid people from filing lawsuits... or maybe the Wii should come with an additional warning : "System not suitable for stupid people"






RE: How do you break the strap????
By dolcraith on 12/21/2006 10:06:52 AM , Rating: 5
Its all about the astroglide and sweaty palms.


This is like people suing a chainsaw manufacturer for their chainsaws being too heavy during use and gnawing off their leg.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By FITCamaro on 12/21/2006 1:56:47 PM , Rating: 3
No its more like chainsaw manufacturers having to put "Do not use near limbs or genitals" on their chainsaws. Or Superman costume makers having to put "Costume does not enable wearer to fly" on them.

Anyway, read Penny Arcades take on this for a laugh. :)


RE: How do you break the strap????
By xphile on 12/24/2006 7:25:48 AM , Rating: 2
But it's worse than that, because what you mention is exactly what will follow. The whole issue comes down to consumer stupidity - there are warnings on the box and really no actual legal requirement for the strap in the first place. But Nintendo added one, and now have taken action to improve it.

Not everyone has the agility to be a race car driver in terms of hand/eye co-ordination. Not everyone has the intellect to be a space shuttle pilot. But some do. Most of us have pretty good intellect, and pretty good hand/ eye co-ordination. Some of us are lousy at one or both. Since the last couple of categories dont generally get to be race car drivers or shuttle pilots it isnt usually a problem, but they do all get to be Wii users. This is unavoidably problematic, much in the same way as it is when the last category of people discover a drivers license at the bottom of a packet of Fruit Loops or Frosted Flakes (and you wondered how cerals were named).

Like the first poster, my pick is that a new warning should be on the package. Mine would go: "May be unsafe for use by individuals with an IQ lower than 70. If you are unsure of your IQ it is probably below 70, please do not use this product".

But seriously, any good lawyer would be making a strong case for the fact the strap was never an absolute requirement in the first place, arguing quite rightly that if in fact it was, then all the things it mimicks should most certainly need one too - even moreso, in fact ANY sporting implement that makes motion and could accidentally be released, i.e. fishing rods, baseball bats, tennis racquets, you name it. And that if not dismissed outright, then some smart ass will get on the bandwagon and file a class action suit against the maker of his or her dining fork because it flew across the room and broke a window/vase/tv during a meal while s/he was gesticulating wildly. Like I say a good lawyer would have no trouble at all pointing out that once started something this stupid could have no end in its reach.

It's really quite ludicrous and hopefully will just be thrown out of court.


By omgitsLong on 12/21/2006 10:12:44 AM , Rating: 2
I totally agree on the quote >:D


RE: How do you break the strap????
By borowki on 12/21/2006 10:18:06 AM , Rating: 1
When you have a game which simulates the throwing of an object (i.e. Wii bowling), you have to expect that some people would let go of what they're holding in their hands. It's not stupidity, just human reflect.

The situation could have easily been avoided with a bit of product testing, so I have little sympathy for Nintendo.


By RandomFool on 12/21/2006 10:31:09 AM , Rating: 2
Hmmm... Maybe that's why they have all those warning not to let go of the wiimote and included a wrist strap to begin with?


RE: How do you break the strap????
By othercents on 12/21/2006 10:35:03 AM , Rating: 5
Product Testing?? I hope your just joking or something. Nintendo didn't have to include a strap. There are no strips on other controllers, but they did so just in case a controller slips from someone's hand. They tested the controllers based on people heeding the warnings and using the system with some care instead of reckless abandon.

The people who let go of the controller are not having human reflex especially since you don't actually throw a bowling ball at the pins. You genitally place the ball on the lane. The damage I have seen would be seen as people who normally throw the ball half way down the lane before it lands. This would be considered reckless and if it happens a lot in a bowling ally they would close your lane and ask you to leave.

Nintendo upgraded the straps because they where breaking. The only reason why they where breaking was because people were using the controller outside of what Nintendo had created them for. Just like the lady who called into Dell tech support because her coffee cup holder on her computer broke. Nintendo isn't liable for someone using their product outside of the intended purpose. And letting go of the controller was never an intended purpose.

Other


RE: How do you break the strap????
By soydeedo on 12/21/2006 10:40:51 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
...you don't actually throw a bowling ball at the pins. You genitally place the ball on the lane.
genitally? really? we'd have a lot more to worry about than broken tv's if nintendo tried to mimic this action.

sorry i couldn't resist. =P


RE: How do you break the strap????
By christianspoer on 12/21/2006 11:36:57 AM , Rating: 2
damn you beat me to it :)
hehehe


RE: How do you break the strap????
By FITCamaro on 12/21/2006 1:59:19 PM , Rating: 3
Only Chuck Norris can use his member to roll a bowling ball. It takes balls of pure steel to accomplish.


By Sulphademus on 12/21/2006 2:37:45 PM , Rating: 3
Maybe it is because I have been playing video games for 16 years or maybe it is because my hands have the capacity to grip (that is, the use of opposible digits to apply a squeezing force) but I played Wii Sports on my cousin's system and, even going whole hog with the motions in tennis and bowling, the controller never came close to slipping.

Not saying Nintendo isnt doing the right thing by making thicker straps but they are doing it for the morons. Im surprized anyone who has the strength to pick up the controller isnt strong enough to maintain a hold on it.

There is only so much stupidity that product testing can cover I suppose.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By jtrim1 on 12/21/2006 10:41:55 AM , Rating: 5
"you don't actually throw a bowling ball at the pins. You genitally place the ball on the lane."

HAHAHA, I created an account just so I could reply and quote this line.... I must say, I've never seen a bowling ball genitally placed on the lane... that's GOT to hurt.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By abhaxus on 12/21/2006 1:36:45 PM , Rating: 2
Obviously you haven't seen the deleted scenes for beerfest :)


RE: How do you break the strap????
By cperwin on 12/21/06, Rating: -1
RE: How do you break the strap????
By TimberJon on 12/21/2006 11:51:53 AM , Rating: 5
Alright smart guy, where is your industry opinion? Where were you educated, the Blog Patrol? Get all those big words from dictionary.com?

Grow the Fuck up yourself and post something worth reading. When something posted is useLESS at least we can laugh and joke about it, then someone else will pick up the article and run with it.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By cperwin on 12/21/06, Rating: -1
RE: How do you break the strap????
By cperwin on 12/21/06, Rating: -1
RE: How do you break the strap????
By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2006 12:24:14 PM , Rating: 4
The only worse way to waste time than by posting about insignificant subjects, is to waste time by posting about how lame all the other posts are.

In short, sir, your post is overtly narcissistic and hypocritical. But thanks for dropping by.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By cperwin on 12/21/06, Rating: -1
By StevoLincolnite on 12/22/2006 12:07:32 AM , Rating: 2
Do you have your ---Monthly's--- or something?
The way I look at it, Nintendo has already made action on something "Faulty" as others would claim.
The people/person suing Nintendo are just after some money.

And this site is just that, a blogger community, And the last thing that anyone needs is someone who is on they're rag's causing grief to those who wish to voice a little about there thoughts on the topic.

And telling a large group of people to "grow-up" is wrong, its all our voices against your little squeaky one.
1 Person can be wrong, less likely for several people to be.
So really, who is it that should grow up?


By Ochophosphate on 12/22/2006 10:34:19 AM , Rating: 2
I find it shallow and pedantic, Lois... shallow and pedantic.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By borowki on 12/21/2006 12:17:18 PM , Rating: 4
The strap is a safety device. Safety devices exist for exceptional situations, accidents--not normal usage patterns. They should always have high factor of safety. In this case it's just a string. All they had to do is find one that won't snap from an impulse of magnitude that can physically be created by a human being.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By bplewis24 on 12/21/2006 1:50:50 PM , Rating: 2
Good post.

Brandon


RE: How do you break the strap????
By deeznuts on 12/21/2006 1:38:42 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Nintendo upgraded the straps because they where breaking. The only reason why they where breaking was because people were using the controller outside of what Nintendo had created them for. Just like the lady who called into Dell tech support because her coffee cup holder on her computer broke. Nintendo isn't liable for someone using their product outside of the intended purpose. And letting go of the controller was never an intended purpose.

I'm sorry but obviously you are not a lawyer. Product liability does not depend on what the manufacturer intended the product to be used for. There are three basic types of products liability, design defect, manufacturing defect, and advertising defect.

I didn't read the complaint so I'm not sure but I do know in most jurisdictions if not all, a manufacturer is liable for defects in design if said design was defective for all intended uses AND forseen misuses.

By including a strap in the first place, is evidence Nintendo foresaw these misuses, therefore did not design the straps correctly since there are obvious defects, i.e. the straps broke.

People who throw the straps around = idiots. Nintendo as all manufacturers must account for idiots when designing their products.


By Hoser McMoose on 12/21/2006 2:42:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
By including a strap in the first place, is evidence Nintendo foresaw these misuses, therefore did not design the straps correctly since there are obvious defects, i.e. the straps broke.


I would think that Nintendo has a pretty strong case though, given that they've sold something like 3 million consoles worldwide and have had relatively few (maybe a few hundred? a few thousand at most) reports of failures. Combine that with the fact that they almost immediately issued a recall for the straps when they learned of these defects and it will probably be a fairly tough case under US jurisdiction.

Of course, in every other court room in any other country in the world this would be laughed out of court before it even got started. Tort law in the US has gotten so out of hand that it's now almost an industry in and of itself.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By frobizzle on 12/21/2006 6:22:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I do know in most jurisdictions if not all, a manufacturer is liable for defects in design if said design was defective for all intended uses AND forseen misuses.


Hmmm...what you state here is called an implied warranty of merchantability and many items sold specifically exclude that type of warranty on their products (unless disallowed by the laws of that jusridiction.) I don't know if that is applicable in the warranty on the Wii.


By ThisSpaceForRent on 12/21/2006 6:59:35 PM , Rating: 2
I know in Illinois they commonly use contributory negligence to decide who is at fault in cases. This is one of the cases where fault lies somewhere between the manufacturer and the end user. Obviously the strap originally provided was insufficient to prevent the Wiimote from leaving the users hand, but at the same time the flying Wiimote isn't a universal problem. So you could easily infer from this that some users are more "talented" than others. They are using the product, as it was intended, but not quite in the manner that the manufacturer designed it for. Perhaps certain users are more enthusiastic about their gestures.

The real question is, if I buy a Wii before this is made into a class action lawsuit, and destroy my TV, can I get on the bandwagon? Discuss.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By neothe0ne on 12/21/2006 3:18:33 PM , Rating: 2
That's like saying, when you have an object that can be used as a weapon (a new mechanical pencil), and someone does so, you would have little sympathy for the maker of the pencil.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By afkrotch on 12/21/2006 7:55:08 PM , Rating: 2
If the pencil was made to be used in a weapon like state (ex. you need to stab repeatedly at the paper until all the dots combine to form a letter), had instructions on how to use it, and also had safety equipment (rubber tip guard, foam sleeve, etc) in case of accidents or misuse, then yes. I would have little sympathy for the pencil maker.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By hecksign on 12/21/2006 10:24:40 AM , Rating: 1
if they success on the lawsuit, then all other thing such as chainsaw and hammer need straps.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By clayclws on 12/21/2006 10:32:25 AM , Rating: 2
How bout kids? You consider them stupid too?

Now, if they sent the controller flying without breaking the strap, that'll be their fault. If the strap broke, that's another story.

I think the main issue here that the lawyers are trying to raise is that the original strap is not versatile enough. Since lots of people had their straps broken, it should not be "conclusively" their fault. You have to agree that these straps are not strong enough, How they break the straps, I have no idea. I don't think they did it on purpose, now would they?

Nintendo's effort is recommendable. They acknowledged they did something wrong and are preparing to replace those straps (broken, non-broken or yet-to-be-broken) for free.

People will have the right to sue. But in this case, I don't see why they need to, since Nintendo offered them free replacements. The only thing I can think of is that people are suing for their broken household items due to the flying Wiimotes.


By othercents on 12/21/2006 10:40:15 AM , Rating: 3
No this lawsuit was made by a lawyer trying extract money from a large corporation. This lawyer doesn't even own a Wii, or would ever own a Wii since they have more fun creating this dumb lawsuits.

The lawsuit doesn't talk about household damages either. I would also like to know where you have seen a child (under the age of 15) that has broken anything from throwing a controller? Actually I would like to know of a child that has broken the strap. If there is one that young then they should be put into baseball as a pitcher since they have a very strong arm and could probably pitch at about 80mph.

Other


RE: How do you break the strap????
By rmh3 on 12/21/2006 10:43:30 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
How bout kids? You consider them stupid too?


Actually, I have yet to hear stories of children breaking the strap. It's usually bone headed adults trying to lob a virtual bowling ball 200mph.


By othercents on 12/21/2006 10:49:00 AM , Rating: 2
And kids will hold onto the controller when told.

Other


RE: How do you break the strap????
By jobroco on 12/21/2006 11:43:26 AM , Rating: 2
OK, here's you first story of a child snapping the wii-mote's strap. My 13 year old daughter was playing Bowling I believe, on a friend's Wii. Her hands were dry but she did loosen her grip slightly and the wiimote slipped out of her hand, strap broke, and wiimote went for a ride. She wasn't throwing at a high velocity at all. There was no broken houseware, appliances, etc... and no reason to slap a silly lawsuit on Nintendo.
I have to commend Nintendo on quickly accepting responsibility that the original strap was too weak (.026mm) and offering the stronger replacement (.040mm) for free.


By CascadingDarkness on 12/21/2006 12:10:51 PM , Rating: 2
Previous Daily Tech article
quote:
The old straps, which were found to be especially prone to breaking, had a 0.6 millimeter string diameter, while the new replacement strap features a diameter of 1 millimeter.


http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5366

Can anyone confirm these sizes are correct? From .6 to full millimeter?


RE: How do you break the strap????
By zombiexl on 12/27/2006 11:36:00 AM , Rating: 2
My 5 y/o son hasnt snapped the strap or even let go of the wiimote yet, but he does get way too agressive. We were playing tennis last night and he swung so frantically and hard that he moved about 5 feet and smacked my wife upside the head with the thing..

After I finished laughing I told him he was done playing for the night.

We're not suing nintendo because my son went a little crazy with his swing and nearly took off his mothers head. Then again were doing what I bet many parents aren't and actually playing the game with our kids, making sure they are using it correctly and correcting them when they arent.

I've already told of of my son's friends that he's not allowed to play anymore after he moved closer and closer to the TV while playing boxing and hit the wiimote on the TV stand.

Or the short version... if people are (somewhat) responsible these things are much less likey to occur.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By XtremeM3 on 12/28/2006 6:03:01 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly!

Responsibility is the issue. It can't be the users fault for letting it go. I mean...Nintendo forced these people to buy them and then had them swing the remote like madmen until it did finally slip out of their hands. It's completely Nintendo's fault. /sarcasm(some people need this here)

I know what people are going to say, so I'll say it for you. Sometimes these things happen, and while playing people get excited and swing hard the wrist strap should prevent it from taking off. Hey...tough. Welcome to life and the fact that things don't always go your way. I'm so sick and tired of everyone looking at everyone else for blame. You let it go so here is a novel idea...it's your fault. End of story. It IS just that simple.

That's like me wrecking my car and saying that "Well there is traction control and regardless of the fact that I knew all that power on wet pavement could equal a recipe for disaster I still went everywhere flooring it! - BMW it's your fault. Pay me. I mean, the traction control was there so you knew a problem could develop if I drove like an idiot."

It's time that people just take responsibility for their own actions.

Jeff


RE: How do you break the strap????
By drebo on 12/21/2006 10:56:52 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Now, if they sent the controller flying without breaking the strap, that'll be their fault. If the strap broke, that's another story.


No, it's the same story. The strap is not there to catch a thrown remote. It's there to protect the remote from damage if it falls during normal gameplay. Bowling so hard that you lose control and lob the remote across the room is not normal gameplay.

Tell me...if I'm playing Mario Kart on my SNES and I get so in-to it that I lose control and yank the controller cord so hard that the SNES falls off the table, taking my nice $600 24" LCD TV with it, is Nintendo at fault? HELL NO! This is no different than someone who throws a little too hard in baseball or tennis and loses control of the remote.

Nintendo is not at fault here. Really, Nintendo is under no obligation to even offer free wrist strap replacements. It's plain as day inside the box and the owners' manual and during gameplay, even, that you should not let go of the remote.

Also, I'll reiterate it again...this lawsuit was not filed by consumers, but by the lawyers. I'm just saddened that Nintendo even dignified it with a response.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By bplewis24 on 12/21/2006 2:07:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Tell me...if I'm playing Mario Kart on my SNES and I get so in-to it that I lose control and yank the controller cord so hard that the SNES falls off the table, taking my nice $600 24" LCD TV with it, is Nintendo at fault? HELL NO! This is no different than someone who throws a little too hard in baseball or tennis and loses control of the remote


Are you kidding? Those situations are NOT the same. If you're playing with a traditional controller the only input necessary is the pressing of a few buttons. The Wiimote is inteded to accept the input from the user WHILE IN MOTION. Therefore it is entirely reasonable that every once in a while somebody will lose the grip on the thing or swing it a little too fast in the wrong direction. It shouldn't happen all the time, but it's a very real possibility. To absolve Nintendo from blame entirely and just claim all end-users who have this problem are just stupid is ridiculous and hypocritical.

How many times have you seen baseball players with 2 hands on a bat accidently throw the bat into the stands? It happens even though they aren't supposed to let go. Are you going to call them retarded because they accidently let go of a bat or lost control of it? Of course not. It's a physical reality. Unless you understand something about the laws of physics that the rest of us don't.

So if a end-user is using the Wiimote in a reasonable manner and loses control of the controller they aren't retarded either. Nintendo KNEW this was a possibility or else the strap would not be on the thing in the first place. This is simply a case of them not making the strap strong enough. They've accepted responsibility for their error and are now correcting it.

Brandon


By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2006 3:17:11 PM , Rating: 3
> "How many times have you seen baseball players with 2 hands on a bat accidently throw the bat into the stands? "

To hit in the majors, one must swing the bat as hard as physically possible. To play the Wii, one only needs to make very gentle motions. A world of difference there.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By SmokeRngs on 12/22/2006 1:38:20 PM , Rating: 2
Do these baseball players sue the bat manufacturers for not putting straps on the bat so they can't throw them?

Your analogy is worthless for that point only.

Don't forget that a Wiimote does not weigh as much as a baseball bat or require near the same amount of effort to swing around. Replace baseball bat with bowling ball, baseball or just about anything else and the statement is still true.


RE: How do you break the strap????
By wiiz3rd on 12/22/2006 10:43:55 AM , Rating: 2
They are either dumb asses or greedy bastards who did it on purpose so they can sue for the money.


By slashbinslashbash on 12/26/2006 2:45:53 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. I got my Wii a few days ago as an early Christmas present, and I have been playing it with my family for a couple of days straight -- parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents. Mostly Wii Sports but also some Rayman and Excite Truck. Not once has anybody dropped or thrown the Wii Remote. We have been wearing the straps, but the straps haven't even gotten any use because the Wiimote hasn't slipped. It's hard to imagine people being so out of it that they throw it hard enough to damage things.


this is totally frivolous, but...
By indefenseofLawyers on 12/21/2006 12:28:06 PM , Rating: 2
You would have to be crazy to lob the wiimote, breaking the strap. Anyone who has used one knows this. And, yes, it's true that greedy lawyers are at the heart of this, not consumers. Certainly, anyone in danger of losing the wiimote, and breaking the strap, is doing horrendously bad in the game they are playing. Anyone trying to win would not be able to do it.

But before we say things like "Lawyers are al Qaeda", we should think. Lawyers are the reason that, until recently, the government could not just lock people up without having a good reason. The Military Commissions Act ended this protection, and lawyers are the only people in our society worried about this, with the power to do something about it. Lawyers are the only reason we have any freedom, and now is not the time to attack them. I live in NYC, and could be killed by a terrorist, but I'm a lot more worried about ending up in a concentration camp for writing blog postings like this. It's a lot more likely, and lawyers are the only line of defense. Many of them have very high principles. Many are greedy. Unless you believe George W. Bush, and whatever nimrod follows him should be able to stop you from writing snarky posts about the Wii by coming into your house in the night and taking you away forever, you might think about how much we owe lawyers, even if some of them are greedy and foolish, and may cause a great company like Nintendo some trouble.




RE: this is totally frivolous, but...
By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2006 12:40:00 PM , Rating: 2
> "Lawyers are the reason that, until recently, the government could not just lock people up without having a good reason..."

No. The Bill of Rights is the reason why, actually.

There isn't a single attorney in the nation that doesn't realize how badly tort reform is needed. And yet how many of them are lobbying for it? Fifty times as many are actively lobbying against it, as they don't want the gravy train shut down.


RE: this is totally frivolous, but...
By indefenseofLawyers on 12/21/2006 2:23:49 PM , Rating: 2
What good is the Bill of Rights, if due process is not required? I have the freedom of speech to say these lawyers are idiots, but if the government can lock me up forever, with no way for me to challenge it, the Bill of Rights is not worth the paper it's written on. It means nothing. Lawyers are the only reason we have rights at all. Without them, rights are meaningless, since the average citizen is not equipped to defend himself from a large government that can come into houses at night and take them away, even if the governemnt makes all these pronouncements about how many rights we have. Putting things on papaer is not enough.

As to tort reform, do you even know what it means? Frivolous lawsuits are a problem, but if my doctor poisons me, for example, I'm glad to know that I have some way of both recovering money from him, and preventing him from doing it again. Tort reform is republican spin of the idea of making it so that average citizens can not ever sue corporations. If we can't sue, or if damages are limited, then corporations can do anything they want with no consequences. The law in our country is great, because it makes sure that there is accountability for all parties, not just those that the current governement doesn't agree with. Nintendo, for example, could countersue in this case for legal fees, profits lost, defamation, and a host of other reasons.

Just as the answer to bad speech is more speech, not censorship, the answer to bad lawsuits is to not do things that make you liable for damages.


By kasey01 on 12/21/2006 3:04:03 PM , Rating: 2
At least someone here understands the importance of lawyers in our society.


By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2006 3:23:31 PM , Rating: 2
> "What good is the Bill of Rights, if due process is not required?"

Private attorneys do not enforce habeas corpus; the judicial system does. A person without an attorney is still entitled-- indeed, required-- to receive full due process of law.

> "As to tort reform, do you even know what it means? Frivolous lawsuits are a problem, but if my doctor poisons me...I'm glad to know that I have some way of [recovering] money from him."

It seems I know far better what it is than you do, if you feel tort reform would somehow prevent you from suing a doctor who poisoned you.

> "Tort reform is republican spin of the idea of making it so that average citizens can not ever sue corporations. "

Ok, I can see you're too far divorced from reality to debate rationally.


RE: this is totally frivolous, but...
By Spivonious on 12/21/2006 3:55:40 PM , Rating: 2
It's posts like this one that makes me wish I lived in a different country. Do you have any understanding at all of how our government works?

Due process = guaranteed right of all people in the country. No government can ever change this, unless they throw out the Constitution.

We have rights because we the people gave them to ourselves. Lawyers are simply people who are more knowledgeable of our rights in a legal context.

Tort reform is needed because it will cut down on frivolous lawsuits. It will not remove your right to sue. Don't worry, the U.S. will never give up that right.


By frobizzle on 12/21/2006 6:31:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Due process = guaranteed right of all people in the country. No government can ever change this, unless they throw out the Constitution

There are some situations where this is not true! The most common example? A judge, for whatever reason, cites someone for contempt of court. That person can be held indefinitely in custody according to the whims of the judge.


By SmokeRngs on 12/22/2006 1:46:58 PM , Rating: 2
Lawyers are not the reason we have the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the other Amendments to the Constitution or why any of it is enforced. The reason we have these rights and continue to have them is because of myself and the millions of other gun and weapon owners. The government is supposed to be afraid of the people. This is the reason we have these rights. The people the government is supposed to serve have the ability to take the government out if the need arises. This ability has nothing to do with elections or lawyers.

Lawyers can only "practice" law because of the people willing and able to take the government on if the government goes too far.


RE: this is totally frivolous, but...
By kasey01 on 12/21/2006 3:02:17 PM , Rating: 2
Who do you think enforces the Bill of Rights?


RE: this is totally frivolous, but...
By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2006 3:18:52 PM , Rating: 1
> "Who do you think enforces the Bill of Rights? "

The Bill of Rights is enforced by the Executive Branch-- not lawyers in private practice.

Who do you think enforces it?


RE: this is totally frivolous, but...
By indefenseofLawyers on 12/21/2006 3:46:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Private attorneys do not enforce habeas corpus; the judicial system does. A person without an attorney is still entitled-- indeed, required-- to receive full due process of law.


That is completely meaningless without attorneys. Have you ever tried defending yourself in court? I'd rather have someone defending me that knows the law as well as the governement does. All I'm saying here is that lawyers are the reason that people have rights. Without them, though we'd have a lot of nice writing, the governement would be unaccountable to the people.

quote:
> "As to tort reform, do you even know what it means? Frivolous lawsuits are a problem, but if my doctor poisons me...I'm glad to know that I have some way of [recovering] money from him, and of stopping him from hurting others."


quote:
It seems I know far better what it is than you do, if you feel tort reform would somehow prevent you from suing a doctor who poisoned you.


Tort reform is spin for outlawing, or limiting damages in, lawsuits against people like doctors and insurance companies, and it is absolutley true that it endangers my freedom to enjoin a doctor that has hurt me.

quote:
> "Tort reform is republican spin of the idea of making it so that average citizens can not ever sue corporations. "


quote:
Ok, I can see you're too far divorced from reality to debate rationally.


Thank you for answering my question. You clearly don't know what tort reform is. Tell, if you know, what I've gotten wrong about it. Argue. Don't just try to win.

quote:
The Bill of Rights is enforced by the Executive Branch-- not lawyers in private practice.


The executive is limited by the Bill of Rights. I have a right not to be unreasonably searched. The Executive is the branch that would seek to illegally search me, so I'd need someone else to enforce my rights in that case. You are right in that the Executive enforces these rights if someone besides the government tries to take them from me, but it is the lawyers that check the government's power to remove rights from people. Without them, rights are merely words on a page, and governements can imprison people without any accountability.


By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2006 4:05:45 PM , Rating: 2
> "That is completely meaningless without attorneys. Have you ever tried defending yourself in court?"

Yes, several times in fact. I'm 3 for 4 in small claims court, one of which I was the defendant, and have twice defended myself against misdeameanor traffic violations. All without an attorney. And each and every time, I received due process of law.

> "Tort reform is spin for outlawing"

Thank you for confirming my opinion. Why not learn about the subject and save further embarrasment? From the American Tort Reform Association:

quote:
Today, America's $246 billion civil justice system is the most expensive in the industrialized world. Aggressive personal injury lawyers target certain professions, industries, and individual companies as profit centers. They systematically recruit clients who may never have suffered a real illness or injury and use scare tactics, combined with the promise of awards, to bring these people into massive class action suits. They effectively tap the media to rally sentiment for multi-million-dollar punitive damage awards. This leads many companies to settle questionable lawsuits just to stay out of court...


RE: this is totally frivolous, but...
By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2006 4:09:33 PM , Rating: 2
Some recent frivolous lawsuits:
quote:
A woman initiated a lawsuit after someone spilled flaming rum on her in a bar. Instead of suing the person responsible for spilling the rum, the woman decided to sue Bacardi. The reason, she claims, is that the spirit-maker's product is defective.

A woman who suffered minor injuries when she was hit by a train while walking along railroad tracks is suing the railroad for more than $30,000 because she says the railroad didn't warn people that trains were likely to travel on the tracks she was walking along. (Associated Press Newswires, November 5, 2004)

A jury awarded $1.6 million to a woman who claimed a phonebook company published fraudulent data that resulted in her disfigurement from liposuction surgery. The woman found an ad under the plastic surgery section that indicated a physician was “Board Certified.” The doctor was board certified in dermatology and anatomic pathology.

A student whose vacation plans were spoiled has sued to end summer homework in Wisconsin, claiming it creates an unfair workload and unnecessary stress. (From the Associated Press, January 21, 2005)

Two teens thought they'd surprise neighbors with a nighttime cookie delivery, but a neighbor sued, claiming the good deed caused a severe anxiety attack. (source: Denver Post, Feb. 4, 2005)

A viewer has sued NBC for $2.5 million over a "Fear Factor" rat-eating episode, alleging the episode made him dizzy, lightheaded and caused him to vomit and run into a doorway. (From the Associated Press, January 26, 2005)



By indefenseofLawyers on 12/21/2006 5:30:36 PM , Rating: 2
Some recent non-frivolous lawsuits:

Every case before a criminal court.

Thousands of malpractice claims.

Thousands of claims against companies that are ripping people off or hurting them.

The frivolous ones make the news, and are often not nearly as frivolous as they appear at first glance, but the vast majority of lawsuits are valid and are not spoken of in the press. The McDonalds coffee case, for example, which people like to point to as the poster-child of frivolity in court was a serious case. Many people were burned, the store was aware of the problem and didn't fix it, and the coffee was over 190 degrees, which is insane. Look at the details here:

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

As you'll see, it was not so silly to sue over hot coffee. The victim got third degree burns over six percent of her body and more than 700 people had already complained about having been hurt. The lawsuit happened, and suddenly no one is getting burned anymore. It seems worthwhile to me.

If you believe that accountability is a bad thing, then you believe in tort reform. I believe that when someone causes harm that they should pay a price. Clearly you have a lot of faith in corporations, most of which in my opinion tend to be irresponsible, and you seem to have faith in whichever government happens to be elected at any given moment. Nintendo, imho, tends to be pretty good, but others, like Enron, like Halliburton, like GE, would do vast amounts more harm if not checked by the judicial system. Their obligation is to make profit, not to protect people, and so we need people to make sure they do protect people. The judicial system is a joke without private attorneys.

And I'd like to point out that defending yourself in small claims court is a long shot from defending yourself from being imprisoned. If those imprisoning you don't have to bring you to court, it may be a bit tough to defend yourself, and even if you get to court, if you are up against a lawyer, and not another small-claimant, you may find it a bit more difficult. District Attorney's fortunately tend to be quite good at what they do, and my bet is that they are better than you. Just as the system would fail without them, so would it fail without private lawyers.

As to this ingenious (or ingenuous) quote:

quote:
Today, America's $246 billion civil justice.... They effectively tap the media to rally sentiment for multi-million-dollar punitive damage awards. This leads many companies to settle questionable lawsuits just to stay out of court...


That is all spin. There is little of substance. Bad doctors are stopped from harming people. Bad corporations are checked in their efforts to profit on harmful behavior (these same companies fund the AntiTort of America people). People have sympathy for those that get multi-million dollar awards, because corporations honestly DO hurt people in horrible ways. I'm not saying there aren't bad attorneys out there (and I certanily include the jerks suing Nintendo), but the alternative is much worse: for McDonalds to go on burning people after more than 700 have complained. Accountability leads to success. It also leads to some waste, but that is the necessary price. This waste, by the way, is dwarfed in the medical industy by the costs of insurance companies cutting preventive care, but that's another fight... The amount lawsuits cost the medical industry, for those interested, is less than half of one percent of the industry by the worst estimates.

I'm sure many are chomping at the bit to respond so much since I mentioned that McDonald's case that they won't read this far, but for the others out there, I'd like to say that my opponent is unfortunately a bit misinformed, but otherwise seems quite intelligent.


By kasey01 on 12/21/2006 5:02:48 PM , Rating: 2
Explain to us how the executive branch enforces the Bill of Rights.


Won't stand in court
By edge929 on 12/21/2006 9:42:37 AM , Rating: 2
Nintendo has covered their butts from day one on this. You open the Wii box and one of the first things you see is a warning message. They've even released subsequent email/mail warnings since then not to mention the obvious recall. They're on top of it even when they didn't HAVE to be and I think the Judge will se this.




RE: Won't stand in court
By drebo on 12/21/2006 10:16:03 AM , Rating: 2
You never know. It's entirely possible they could get some liberal sap judge with a grudge against any company which grosses more than $2 million annually.

Thank God they didn't file this case in California. The idiots over here would have declared Nintendo guilty of eating babies because of the wrist strap "malfunctions" and awarded the plaintiffs equal shares of all Nintendo's assets.

I jest, of course...but not by much.


RE: Won't stand in court
By bplewis24 on 12/21/2006 10:54:36 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
They're on top of it even when they didn't HAVE to be


Why wouldn't they "have" to be on top of it?

Brandon


RE: Won't stand in court
By Lonyo on 12/21/2006 11:14:32 AM , Rating: 4
Because no one thinks that a games controller, wireless or otherwise, should be thrown at objects.
You wouldn't throw your wireless Xbox 360 controller at your TV, and it doesn't come with a warning to be careful with it.
You also wouldn't expect anyone sane would throw their Wii controller at their TV, but apparently people do, which is THEIR stupidity, not the fault of Nintendo.
Use something in the appropriate manner, and it won't break your TV.

Should we put warnings on everything that could be thrown and break stuff? Footballs with warnings saying "Do not throw at your TV, it may break it"?


RE: Won't stand in court
By bplewis24 on 12/21/2006 2:15:10 PM , Rating: 2
Your post completely ignores the context of the use of the controller. You wouldn't throw a 360 controller at the TV because you only use it to press buttons. Asking why people throw the Wii controller at the TV is making the assumption that 1) they intended to throw it and 2) they weren't using the strap. If that's the case then there's not even a point for this discussion because they weren't using it correctly.

You also assume that if it is used appropriately there will never be any problems. That is of course unreasonable. If it wasn't possible then there would be no strap on the thing in the first place.

All of your other questions are constructed in a way that has no relevence to the discussion. Who throws the football at a TV? Start being realistic for a second...when the controller is used in the manner it was intented to be there is always the possibility of losing your grip on it. That is why the strap is there and that is why it needs to be stronger.

Brandon


When in Doubt, Overengineer.
By TimberJon on 12/21/2006 12:02:28 PM , Rating: 2
I work in the Petroleum Industry. EVERYTHING is overengineered because we can't really be sure if it will be installed, handled, or used as intended by the manufacturer (us).

SO! If Nintendo sat down over coffee for about... say 30 minutes (just to overengineer the discussion) and really thought about who would be playing the system, they would have jotted down some critical points.

Goal: Make a system and games for everyone of all ages.

Critical points to consider.

1) Adults may use this product. Adults not accustomed to gaming consoles or controllers as gamers know them may be slow and cautious in the use of the product.

2) Young adults may enthusiastically use this product, especially after eagerly awaiting its launch. This category will probably thrash the controller around to prove their skills or superiority over another individual during gameplay.

3) Teenagers may really enjoy this system and are most likely to join together in a group environment, get loud and crazy, and thrash the controller during gameplay.


SO! Hmmm.. If I were in charge of Material Specifications and product Design.. I would.. Oh! Overengineer the wrist strap! And give it a simple zip-lock to cinch it to the wrist.

WHYYY??? Because some teenagers (and adolescents) wrists are less than 5" around. And the 1st and (new)2nd Gen strap leave too much room for the strap to come off.




By CascadingDarkness on 12/21/2006 12:26:23 PM , Rating: 2
I've got to say your post makes complete sense. I just find it sad that everything needs to be looked over so much to avoid possible future lawsuits, especially when they come with tons of warnings and tips.


RE: When in Doubt, Overengineer.
By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2006 12:27:34 PM , Rating: 1
> "SO! Hmmm.. If I were in charge of Material Specifications and product Design.. I would.. Oh! Overengineer..."

Personally, I consider the inclusion of a wrist strap at all to be overengineering the product.


RE: When in Doubt, Overengineer.
By skizzy on 12/22/2006 12:53:54 AM , Rating: 2
The inclusion of the wrist strap is almost an admission that the wrist strap is needed. No company just "includes" stuff like that on a whim. "So, I was thinking - spend a few more dollars on a device to hang around the user's wrist and do nothing - what does everyone think?" If they put it there for a reason, and that reason did not take into effect likely possibilities, then they really did screw up. There are likely possibilites that this would fly out of one's hand (and please don't point to the astroglide post on PA).

As has been said before though, Nintendo clearly tried to head this off with a recall - and I hope it helps them when it comes down to the judge.

Eric


RE: When in Doubt, Overengineer.
By XtremeM3 on 12/28/2006 6:10:54 AM , Rating: 2
What if Nintendo's initial purpose for the strap was just so you could give your fingers a rest and let it hang every once in a while. And not as a safety measure for those who can't hang on?

I think every product should have 1 warning label. "Use at your own risk" That's it.

Jeff


RE: When in Doubt, Overengineer.
By usgs on 12/21/2006 12:34:24 PM , Rating: 2
As an engineering student I must respond. First off, they did sit down and think about the end users, hence the wrist strap in the first place. If they thought everyone was going to be cautious they wouldn't have added the wrist strap. Second, they probably did have people test it and the sample of people they had showed that it was fine.

And on the issue of over engineering, there is a reason there is an over in front of the engineering. If that was how you were supposed to do everything they would just call it engineering. Ninety percent of the time the simple solution is the better solution. Why use legs on a car when you can use wheels?

If a simple wrist strap is not good enough, then why do they use it on almost every piece of handheld equipment?


Only in US..
By bltoha on 12/21/2006 10:57:44 AM , Rating: 3
American "justice" system is one big joke. It has very little to do with justice but very much to do with money. People are not equal in front of law, only people with money are.

This kind of lawsuit in only possible in USA. Absurd and idiotic lawsuits are not accepted to court in civilized countries.

Too bad that these stupid lawsuits are all additional costs to manufacturers. We all pay higher price for products because one big country has an idiotic legal system.




RE: Only in US..
By masher2 (blog) on 12/21/2006 11:16:38 AM , Rating: 2
> "This kind of lawsuit in only possible in USA"

Right...in Europe, instead of a law firm filing the suit, the EU would do it for them.


RE: Only in US..
By bltoha on 12/21/2006 11:31:45 AM , Rating: 2
:-)

EU antitrust lawsuits against Microsoft are a bit more reasonable than this Nintendo-lawsuit.


Class action lawsuit against tennis racquet makers
By tragondin on 12/21/2006 10:25:00 AM , Rating: 2
I'm thinking of suing tennis racquet makers because it has happened to me to lose my grip on the racquet and have the racquet go flying toward my opponent.

Why in the hell isn't there a wrist band on tennis racquets ??? Those people are irresponsible




By bplewis24 on 12/21/2006 2:19:47 PM , Rating: 2
Because a tennis racquet isn't designed to be used in smaller, confined spaces and playing areas.

Brandon


By skizzy on 12/22/2006 12:44:02 AM , Rating: 2
No, it isn't - but what about a ping-pong paddle?

I am sure there are other examples, for recreation and not, that can be thought of. I don't disagree with your position, just your argument against theirs since there is a clear 1-1 relationship to another sport, played indoors and requiring the same motions as tennis.

Eric


By rtrski on 12/21/2006 10:16:07 AM , Rating: 2
The vast majority of class action lawsuits these days originate from nothing more than greedy bastard legal firms who jump on some specious complaint to enrich themselves off legitimate corporate profits, while the 'class' they represent gets bupkis. And it is indeed a successful economical parasitic niche to inhabit, or they wouldn't keep doing it...these days the vast majority of companies attempt to quietly settle and consider it a nuisance cost of doing business.

But when it gets to the point that the sharks are so fat and bloated with profit/ego that they pull stupid stunts like this, it only reinforces the hatred the average person holds for the average member of the legal profession. Personally I wish other lawyers (those few with morals who must, please God tell me I'm right, exist somewhere??) would turn on them and savage them out of existence.

Wishful thinking, I know.




By Crassus on 12/21/2006 10:27:47 AM , Rating: 2
It's all about regulating the industry, the legal industry in this case. If the pressure for the constituency is strong enough, lawmakers will make it a priority and curtail those practices (patent trolls anyone?). I'm totally for awarding all reasonable costs to the prevailing party, just to name one of the things that could be done.


This is how you break a wii controller strap
By lufoxe on 12/21/2006 11:02:40 AM , Rating: 2
By johnsonx on 12/21/2006 3:30:25 PM , Rating: 2
As if it's sraps wrong doing... !!!
By Tarjain on 12/21/2006 1:59:30 PM , Rating: 2
Quote "Owners of the Nintendo Wii reported that when they used the Nintendo remote and wrist strap, as instructed by the material that accompanied the Wii console, the wrist strap broke and caused the remote to leave the user’s hand".

Can anyone help me understand, how breaking-of-strap can CAUSE remote to leave the user's hand?? Strap's mischief or rocket technology!!!




By Tarjain on 12/21/2006 2:04:27 PM , Rating: 2
ohh... also for that matter, I am sure, its not in the owner's manual how to "break the strap and throw away your wiimote".


Agree with Nintendo
By ChugokuOtaku on 12/21/2006 9:43:04 AM , Rating: 3
We should all be behind Nintendo on this one.




I wonder...
By WhoMe on 12/21/2006 11:59:15 AM , Rating: 3
I wonder if nintendo would have been better off not putting a strap on the controller?

As mentioned earlier - chainsaws, hammers, axes, etc. don't come with straps.

Also, I would like to see someone test these things. To throw hard enough to break that strap must require super-human strength considering the short distance that momentum has to build over - it doesn't make much sense. Most of the pictures I've seen of the resulting damage look fake to me. It's all to convenient...




Meh..
By Enoch2001 on 12/21/2006 10:21:03 AM , Rating: 2
I said it once and I'll say it again: lawyers are Al Qaeda. Friggin' pieces of crap.

And people wonder why the world hates us Americans. Sheesh.




This about sums it up
By bplewis24 on 12/21/2006 10:53:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
“At the time we became aware of the lawsuit, we had already taken appropriate steps to reinforce with consumers the proper use of the Wii Remote and had made stronger replacement wrist straps available"


This just about says it all right here. They already took the proper measures before the lawsuit was filed, so hopefully this thing will go away quickly.

Brandon




By NoSoftwarePatents on 12/21/2006 11:05:10 AM , Rating: 2
...if you figure the number of frivolous lawsuits filed against the ones that actually HAVE merit, it's pretty scary.

*thinks of John Bruce Thompson and his endless quest to censor video games without success*




This is what I have to say.....
By sackmaster on 12/21/2006 12:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
1. Nintendo only included straps so that while people were playing if the wiimote slipped out of their hands, it wouldn't brake by falling to the ground.

2. I have broken many things in my day, by throwing controllers because of frustration at a game..... So if they are suing nintendo because of the straps, couldn't they also sue the people who make the games for making them enegetic or frustrating... I mean come on, it is the consumer's fault that they are letting go of the controllers, reguardless of situation. Now if the wiimotes somehow per say "leaked something" and then caused cancer in people then make a lawsuit.

3. This is what it says about the lawsuit from the website:

Green Welling LLP filed a nationwide class action lawsuit on behalf of the owners of the Nintendo Wii against Nintendo of America, Inc., in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington. The class action lawsuit arose as result of the defective nature of the Nintendo Wii. In particular, the Nintendo Wii game console includes a remote and a wrist strap for the remote. Owners of the Nintendo Wii reported that when they used the Nintendo remote and wrist strap, as instructed by the material that accompanied the Wii console, the wrist strap broke and caused the remote to leave the user’s hand. Nintendo’s failure to include a remote that is free from defects is in breach of Nintendo’s own product warranty.

The class action lawsuit seeks to enjoin Nintendo from continuing its unfair or deceptive business practices as it relates to the Nintendo Wii.T he lawsuit also seeks an injunction that requires Nintendo to correct the defect in the Wii remote and to provide a refund to the purchaser or to replace the defective Wii remote with a Wii remote that functions as it is warranted and intended. If you would like additional information regarding the Nintendo WII Replacement Strap click here.

OK isn't the part in bold the part that they have already done!!!! That is what nintendo is doing even before the lawsuit.

Even though in my personal opinion they should have never admitted fault in the first place.

In the end it is really just about a legal firm wanted to get fees out of nintendo... Because nintendo has already done what the lawsuit wanted to achieve even before the suit was filled.




wiimote let go...
By CYBORG8 on 12/21/2006 12:53:19 PM , Rating: 2
One thing to consider, one of the new games coming out for the Wii soon (Smooth Moves), appears to instruct you to actually let go of the remote and hang by the strap for one of the minigames. Lots of other minigames also have you doing things that put the remote in more precarious situations. If this lawsuit continues, I cant imagine what will happen when the games comes out. By the way, Im fully behind Nintendo on this, and I have not had any problems letting go of the remote ('cause your not supposed to....) but this new game is new problem waiting in the wings.




I like the term Blog-Terrorist
By Korexz on 12/21/2006 1:12:23 PM , Rating: 2
I say we hijack the website of the lawfirm... DOS Attack anyone?

http://www.classcounsel.com

I mean come on... look at the URL!!!

Lets give Robert a call shall we?


Green Welling LLP
Robert S. Green, 415-477-6700
www.classcounsel.com


My Blog : http://www.korexz.com ... No Blog-Terrorism Allowed Here ;)




What I find funny
By shaw on 12/22/2006 10:04:30 AM , Rating: 2
What I find funny about stories of people who break the strap is that the Wiimote is a very sensative piece of hardware and it's not required to do massive jerks to get the sensor to recognize motion.

I myself own a Wii and when I first played game I too was going crazy with it, but then you realize that's not really required. I believe in the manual it says that too so Nintendo is covered in this one and the consumer is liable for any damage done.




Nintendo Quality Isn't There
By porkster on 12/22/2006 10:20:23 AM , Rating: 2
I must admit the quality that Nintendo had, isn't in the Wii. I guess this has come from the Chinese production, rather than the Japanese. Maybe the engineers have changed?

Comparing the Wii to the N64 or the Snes, the Wii seems less strong in the plastic and form, department. The Wii Unit has especially thin plastic sides.

Nintendo in my opinion your manufacturing quality has decreased, this time around.

The Wii's concept and resulting gameplay is excellent though. Just need more game support. I also don't count Virtual-Games as releases.




Without mert
By viperpa on 12/21/2006 10:13:17 AM , Rating: 1
This lawsuit has no merit since Nintendo is already doing something about it. It's just another lawyer trying to make big money without helping no one. Lawyers are making big money in a not so perfect world.

As for the remotes slipping out of people's hands, it's mind over matter. It's a natural brain instinct, you extend your arm and the item leaves the hand. This is why the strap is used.




"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein

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